The Habits of a Seven-Figure Producer | with Thomas Cox

Hey, hey, welcome back to the Accelerate Your Insurance Sales podcast. Andy Neary here, CEO and founder of Complete Game Consulting. I'm excited today. I've got Thomas Cox joining me, Vice President with Lockton. Uh, Thomas, I was gonna say Kansas City and Omaha. Is that still true? Are we, are we going between both, uh, both geographies?

Yeah, I spend more time in Omaha these days, but I'm, I'm, I still spend a fair amount of time in Kansas City. That's where I came from.

So I guess my first question, two homes. Do you have a home in each city?

Yeah, I have an apartment in Kansas. I mean, I'm sorry, an apartment in Omaha and a house in Kansas City.

Okay. Yeah, I actually spent a lot of time in Omaha about 7, 8 years ago in the industry. And it's a, it's a very easy city to get around.

Yeah, it's been great for me. I mean, I don't have any ties there. Yeah, but it's been— I've really enjoyed Omaha. The people are great. There's a— it's a great business community. So.

Well, Thomas, I wanted to have you on, uh, for those that are listening, you know, you and I caught up— truth, you know, full transparency— you and I did some work a couple years ago together, but you— caught up with you just, I don't know, maybe a month ago, and you shared with me kind of the success you were having. I was like, holy crap, uh, let's talk about that on the podcast. So we're definitely going to talk about that. But, um, even before the industry, you played, um— I know I always like to talk about sports and upbringing and stuff like that, um, If I had to pick a sport that was yours growing up, I'd have to say it was basketball. Is that right?

Ironically, it was baseball. I just went— I ended up playing basketball in college. I was far better at baseball.

All right. So walk me through that. Okay. So baseball was a sport. But how does— how does a guy who, who has baseball as a sport end up playing basketball in college?

So my dream was to play baseball in college. I thought I was a Division I athlete and I was not a Division I athlete. So I had offers at like D2 and D3 school.

Yeah.

As an arrogant 18-year-old, I thought, well, I'm too good for that. So I didn't. So I actually went to a college, a Division I college for a couple of years, did not play. And it was hard to transition from being, you know, playing high-level athletics and thinking that was your life to not doing that. And so anyway, I ended up transferring to a small school in LA for a number of reasons, but they had a basketball team. And so I just walked on. I mean, I played basketball as well in high school.

Yeah.

So I walked on the basketball team. Our center was 6'10". I'm 6'4". So I just had a good relationship with the coach and I've always had, you know, I feel like I had a pretty good work ethic. And so he literally called me in his office after tryouts and said, hey, Cox, you should be cut from this team, but I think you're a pretty good cheerleader, so I'm going to keep you. And he said, I expect you to work your butt off. So I rode the bench at a small school in LA for a couple of years and it was awesome. I mean, our big guy got into trouble one time, so I got to play 22 minutes, was the most I played in any one game. But, so that's how I ended up playing basketball.

Did you grow up in Kansas City?

No, I grew up in the D.C. area. So right outside of D.C., just south of, and in Virginia.

Okay.

Northern, they call it Northern Virginia.

So how did, I don't even know if you and I had this conversation before. How did you end up in the Kansas City area?

So I, so my dream after college, this is a little bit of my background. I, my dream was to be a Navy SEAL. So I went in the Navy after college, got a SEAL contract and then ended up getting hurt in boot camp. And they said, well, you got two options. You can either stay and I'll give you a job, but it's not going to be a SEAL because we don't mess with back injuries in the SEAL program, or I'll give you a get out of jail free card and we shake hands as friends and you move on. So, I said, "Well, you know, this is kind of earth-shattering. How long do I have to think about it?" He said, "You got 30 seconds, buddy. Make up your mind." So, I took the get-out-of-jail-free card. And on the plane ride home from boot camp, I sat next to a senior vice president with MetLife who used to— I think his role was running the employee benefits a few years prior to me meeting him. He had moved into like a global role. But he asked me— we just started chatting on the plane and he's like, man, I'm really sorry it didn't work out for you. I know a lot of employers. Here's my card. Give me a call. So I did because I had no idea what I was going to do. And he was— it was awesome. He like walked me through a whole discovery process about like, where were you in the— how do you feel? When have you felt in the zone and what gets you excited? And just trying to— he tells me he was just trying to help me figure out like who to connect me with. And after 5 conversations, he goes, you know, you might like selling insurance. Would you want to work for MetLife? And I was— my dad's an engineer, mathematical scientist by trade, and he was— I was thinking like, my dad's going to disown me if I sell insurance, but I don't know what else to do. And they were hiring in Kansas City for a rookie role. So I moved to Kansas City in 2011, uh, to get in the insurance business and MetLife's training program.

How long did you last in the SEAL training before you got hurt?

I was— my DD-214, which is the official discharge papers, it says 29 days.

What was the 29 days like? I mean, just to even want to go into that training says something about you. I mean, what was that? You're basically in there for a month. What was that experience like?

Yeah, I mean, it was— so they start you in boot camp. So like everybody, you know, the stuff you see on TV is BUD/S out in San Diego. And fortunately, I went to a small school in LA and had some buddies that were SEALs. So I actually got to go run the obstacle course a few times and see the barracks and things like that. So that was kind of a cool experience, but they start you as a sailor in boot camp. So I mean, it was Great Lakes, it was boot camp. Now we were in a specialized class for special operators. So it was a different track than a normal sailor goes through. So, you know, you're up earlier, you're up later, you're doing some harder things. I mean, it was, it was not fun. I didn't enjoy it, but it wasn't nearly as hard as you would expect. You know, it's not like you're not carrying boats on your head and, and doing all the things that you see on TV. I didn't, I didn't get that far in the training. So.

Well, I can tell you, man, in the amount of time we've worked together, the thing I recognize about you is it's pretty obvious you are willing to confront challenges because let's just do a quick recap. So I don't think what you said— okay, you played college basketball. You made the comment that your center was 6'10". What you didn't share, if I recall correctly, is your job in practice was to guard said 6'10" center when you're 6'4". Yeah. You go to Navy SEAL training. Now, you put yourself in a completely brand-new market to sell this thing called insurance you think your father is going to disown you for.

Yeah, that's fair. I've never thought of it that way, Andy, but yeah, you're right.

You like the challenge, brother.

Well, I've used the term actually with people that when we talk about Lockton and the producer model, which I'm sure we'll get into, I jokingly said like, "Well, I think I just have a screw loose or I don't know any better." So, I guess that's been kind of the theme of my life, right? I, you know, truly when I was a kid and I don't know how I got this way, I've actually contemplated this often and I've never really come up with a great reason because there's not people in my family that I would say are really this way, but something in me always, I just always thought, well, if I'm going to do something, I don't want to be like mediocre. I want to be kind of a, whatever the best in that is, I want to do that.

Yeah.

Um, and so, I mean, I remember seeing the, literally on my, my mom showed me, she had years later, she had saved this piece of paper for my 12-year-old birthday. And it was like, when Thomas grows up, he wants to be, I wrote Navy SEAL. And I just think, I just thought like, man, those are the best of the best. Like I want to be the best of the best, whatever that looks like. And so, you know, I've done my best to do that.

Well, I think when people hear about the success you've had at Lockton, I don't think anybody's going to be surprised. Because now already knowing what they know about you, to me, it's no surprise you've had the success you've had. But you actually started your career on the carrier side. And you've— was it MetLife, Aetna, Guardian?

Yeah. So, I started in the training program for MetLife. It's a structured— I think at the time it was a year-long program where they kind of work you into— and I think they've changed it since then. Now, they do hubs where you— I don't know what they do now, but essentially, It was, you went to an office where they had a position that you trained for and then you kind of took over like the lowest level territory in the office and called on brokers and that sort of thing. So I did that. Ironically, a mentor of mine at MetLife who was in a different market gave my name to a guy who called him for a job at Aetna. And he called me and said, hey, I gave your name to this guy at a competitor. Given some of the office dynamics, we had a person that was there that Probably, I jokingly said she was going to die at her desk. She was awesome. She was, she was another mentor of mine, but she just, you know, she, she kind of had the best territory locked up. And I saw in my short time, 5 or 6 years in the carrier world can kind of be a career maker or lifetime, you know, I mean, so, and I have a lot of respect for people who stay put. So I'm not suggesting, I don't have respect for people that jump to chase guarantees and things, but I wanted bigger opportunity and stuff. So anyway. The guy from Aetna called me. It was an opportunity. They had just bought Coventry and they were looking for an ancillary guy to kind of round out their Midwest, some of their Midwest states. So I took that role. It gave me more states, bigger territory, bigger opportunities. And then my boss from there left and went to Guardian and called me about a national account position that had opened up. And he said, hey, I'd love for you to come work for me. So I took that. And actually in between Aetna and Guardian, I had been talking to a lot and they had asked me, you know, we had started some conversations and my boss that I had a lot of respect for from Aetna said, hey, look, come over here, give me a few years at Guardian, let's do some fun things together. And then when it's time, I'll wish you well and pat you on the back. So that's what happened.

I was going to say, what made you ultimately make the jump from carrier to the broker side?

I remember being a rookie and asking one of my mentors, why would we not all want to be brokers? That seems like the— that seems like a good gig. And, um, you know, I, I, being a broker, a few things. Being a broker allows you to be closer to the action. You know, when you're on the carrier side, you're very much, I always said we're like selling commodities. Like there's always, there's a ton of options. Um, which, which also I think has helped me be a better producer, but, um, you're, you're, you're not as close to the action. You're not really building a business of your own. You start over every year. Which again, I think it's a great career. And I tell a ton of people, if you can be blessed enough to get in the ancillary insurance business, it's a great gig. And I could have done it the rest of my life. I just wanted something that was more entrepreneurial, building a book of business, having an impact on clients directly. And then, and again, not starting over every year where you actually have a— you're building a book of business and it's recurring revenue. And so there was a number of reasons.

The two most common things I hear are recurring revenue. Because at the carrier world, you're starting at zero every January 1st. Your answer was actually much, much kinder than what I typically hear from a former carrier rep. The normal answer I get is, well, I saw how the brokers— I was looking at some of the brokers who were having success, and I said, if he can do it, I can. Well, that might have played into it a little bit.

But you know, it's funny though, because I had— that was absolutely— I had that same perspective. Coming over and being a broker, you realize, like, I think every carrier rep thinks I could do it so much better. Yeah. And I actually had a broker early on tell me like, dude, don't ever think about it. I've only seen one carrier rep ever make the jump and be successful in our, in our market. Which also kind of lit a fire under me. I was like, well, I'll show you differently someday. But I have a ton of respect for, for not just, I mean, you know, I'm at Lockton. I'm a big fan of Lockton. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of really good brokers out there, a lot of really good producers. But it does give you perspective to see the bad ones and the good ones and kind of start to model some of what you do after them.

But yeah, success leaves clues, but it's— it also— there's, there's plenty of clues left by people who you look at and go, okay, I now know what not to do.

Sure.

Um, I was— I'm curious because we're going to definitely talk about your success you've had, but early on when you made the jump to Lockton, was there anything that was a surprise to you where it was like, oh, maybe this guy was right, this isn't as easy as I thought it was? Were there any of those moments early on when you realized you were selling in very different way than you were as a carrier rep.

Yeah, I mean, that right there is key. Um, the conversations are very different. You know, when you're a carrier rep, you're selling to a broker who is also a salesperson.

Yep.

Um, when you're a broker, you're selling to an end— to a CFO or HR typically. Um, what I didn't realize is they're not just being sold to by brokers. Like, C-suite gets sold to by so many different vendors out there. Um, And so I thought, oh, well, I got these buddies at the golf club. They own a business. They're going to be my first client. They're going to love that. We're like boys. We play golf every Friday. And I actually came in pretty hot on a couple of them and have had to repair some relationships since where we went from being friends to like they avoided me. And now I've had to kind of eat crow and go back and be like, look, I'm sorry. That was— I was, you know, so the conversation— I mean, I had to completely revamp the way I had conversations and approach the deal. I also, I mean, I underestimated how important relationships are. Even if you're not, even if I knew as a carrier rep what you were doing as a broker wasn't that good. Perception's everything. And if they love you and you're doing good enough, like I'm not going to go in and wow you because we've got a better solution or a cheaper price or whatever it is, and then automatically win that business. So, so understanding that and navigating that is a big piece of the challenge. And it was eye-opening.

I'd be curious, was there anything in particular? Was there a moment when you joined the broker world where it just started to click for you? Um, or was there a moment where you just started to realize, okay, I am getting momentum, you know, because I think a lot of carrier reps who do make the jump, I've seen this a lot. They hit that point where they, everybody's gonna struggle and it's so easy to just go back to what you know, you know, go back to the comfort of being a carrier rep. And some, some have done that and, and have done extremely well. But knowing you, somebody who likes the challenge, um, was there, was there a moment where you're like, okay, it's starting to click now?

Yeah. Um, I think, I think two things. When I first came over, I mean, there were, I came over in 2020 at the end of 2020.

So it was like good timing.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes. Thank you, Andy. My mindset, my mindset was such that I thought, well, if I'm, I'm going to have to kind of take a step back and rebuild. Uh, that year made it kind of easy. It was like, well, I'm going to have to take a little bit of a step back and figure this out anyway. So might as well just rip the bandaid off and go, go fully in on this. Um, I had, again, I'd contemplated it prior to going to Guardian, so I'd had many years to think about it and kind of in my head what I thought was planning. I mean, I still, um, was not expecting— I still, I still don't think I had the right— I had completely wrapped my head around it until you're actually in it. Um, but I— there were a lot of, um, oh my gosh, what did I do days, right? Like, what am I doing? But I think I had so con— I had so, um, decided in myself, there's no other option here. Like I'm burning the ships. I mean, yes, obviously I could have gone back to the carrier side and that is a little bit comforting, but I just thought for me it was more internal of, okay, you've gotta figure this out, dude. I don't know, I don't know how you're gonna figure it out, but you, whatever you do, you like, I, so, so it pushed me to, to, to figure it out. And then I, so I think one of the biggest challenges of coming over is when I was an ancillary guy, I had, dozens, I mean hundreds of examples and stories I could share when I'm in a sales process. I think helping people understand how— what the experience is going to be like for them when you're selling can be really helpful. Storytelling and comparison and things like that. When I came over here, I mean, I had no clue. I mean, all I knew was what I had seen from other brokers, and that's not really helpful when you're trying to help an HR leader or a CFO understand how it's going to be different for their business. I think when I, I just kind of grinded to get the first few deals in the door, and then I just, I was like, I would tell the team, hey, I'm going to sit next to you and pretend I'm you for, to learn this business, right? To really understand what does this look like. So then it allowed me to have case studies and examples and really be able to paint the picture of, hey, if you, if you work with Locked and you work with me, this is what it's going to look like. Um, so what So once I had a few clients under my belt and I could start to have examples to pull from, and when I'd hear something from them that it's like, oh, hang on, actually I've got clients. Like when I could start saying, well, let me tell you what another client's doing. That was incredibly helpful. And that's when I started to, it felt like, okay, now I know what I'm doing. Now it's just a matter of putting in the work. Once I get the opportunities, it's, I can have a meaningful conversation and we can actually have a sales process. So I think that was my—

Yeah, and I think there a good lesson is there is that time, that moment of I've got to drop my ego a little bit and learn from others. If I'm going to do this thing right, I'm going to have long-term success. And you've been at Locton, I think what, almost 6 years now? Yeah, end of 2020. 5 and a half, yeah. I think you hit 7 figures actually pretty fast for a producer. And let's set the stage of of, of the where I really wanted to go with the conversation, which is when I caught up with you in March, I think you told me, if you're okay with me sharing, last year you hit what, you sold $1.7 million?

Yeah, in, in new business.

New business in one year.

Yeah.

Which is phenomenal. $1.7 million in one year. But I think you, you shared with me offline, you take more of an unconventional approach to it. Right. I think people would hear that and assume, oh, this guy's dialing 100 calls a week. This guy's doing— just talk a little bit about your approach, because for someone listening who may not have a sales process or prospecting process absolutely dialed in, I think they're going to find what you're about to share pretty refreshing.

Well, hopefully it's a help to those people. Um, I—

so this episode is brought to you by True Captive Insurance. What if you could take full control of your healthcare strategy without the financial burdens of traditional insurance. At True Captive Insurance, they make that possible. As the only captive in the nation that puts up the majority of collateral on your behalf, they provide financial flexibility from day one, making them an advocating partner for their customer success. True Captive's fully customizable plans and cost-saving strategies ensure you never have to choose between affordability and quality care. It's time to break free from the limitations of conventional insurance. Take the next step today. Visit TrueCaptive.com and discover a smarter way to manage healthcare. That is TrueCaptive.com.

I, when I first started, I, my network had just crumbled. My network was brokers. I'm not from a blue blood family. I couldn't just walk in and be like, hey, my dad's your buddy. You're a CEO. Let's do business. And I'd shared the people I did know. You know, I mean, I still don't work with those guys. So I just, I had to, I did early on, I had a process. I had a very dialed in process. I was making a certain number of calls, a certain number of email outreaches, new prospects. I would work a cadence from there, which included cold calling emails. It was kind of a combination. And then once I realized they weren't interested in talking to me, I would work a monthly or quarterly cadence of dripping campaign from there. I think I also shared in this call, or if I haven't, um, that also drained me. Like, I hated it. I knew I had to do it, but I did not enjoy it. So my thought was like, as soon as I can get out of this, I want to get out of this. Now I know it's— and that's still a part of my business. Like, I still very much am a— a lot of my businesses come from cold outreach. I don't feel like I can neglect that. I think to neglect that is really doing myself a disservice. But I had somebody early on, well, about 8 months in, I had a mentor of mine say, I see you drained. You're behind the desk all day, every day. You're staying late, you're coming in early, like you're not having fun. Get out and see people. Like you're a, you need to be out and see people. And she said, I don't care if you go grab coffee with the Blue Cross rep and you, because I was like, well, meeting with reps is a waste of time. That's not revenue generating. She's like, I don't care. Go learn. Like ask them what they're seeing. Like, you know, find some networking groups, do something that's not sitting behind a desk. So I started doing that and it was, it kind of clicked like, oh, this is way more refreshing. I like being in front of people. I like being around people. And that started to, I still, I ended up getting my business from cold, but I think it just broke it up to make me, to make me feel like, hey, there's enough variety that I'm getting fed and I'm filling my cup in ways. And I think that's the key. Like you have to figure out, I put a lot into this business. I don't have kids. I'm married. But like my life is kind of business and it's not, you know, it's like an integration of both. Like I try to find the positives and make the business part of my life so that it just becomes part of me. But finding the ways to do it in your own way, fill your cup through the activities you're doing because you spend too much time and too much effort doing this to be miserable all the time. And that's kind of the mindset or the light bulb that went off. Like I can't sustain this if I just have to sit behind a desk 8 hours a day. Making cold calls. So yeah, so I now— and what really got me here, I think, is, is just a— I say a lack of process is my process. I mean, I'm always thinking about what's, what's going to be revenue-generating activity. How do I maximize the hours in the day? And do I have activity? Like, I'm not just sitting in my office, you know, scrolling TikTok or something, but I'm looking for— so I've joined a number of networking groups that I think are very specific and get me in front of people that I can meet buyers in a scenario that's not a sales process. They're getting to know me, um, and I can kind of build a level of trust so that I'm a guy that they call if and when they ever need help. Um, I, you know, I've done some conferences. I don't really love conferences, but I still show up to them every once in a while because you do meet people there. Um, and then, and again, I still do cold calling. I just, I'm not somebody who says, hey, it's a non-negotiable. I'm doing 27 calls today, come hell or high water. I don't care. I'm blocking that time and I'm doing it. That just doesn't work for me. And I think understanding that doesn't work for me and leaning into that has been one of the keys to my success.

Well, I think actually something that was really important in what you said that I want everybody to hear, going back when your mentor said, get out and meet people, and you're like, yeah, but I don't want to meet with carrier reps. It's a waste of time. What people don't realize is sometimes that activity may not create immediate direct ROI from that activity. But if that activity puts you in a different energy, it can absolutely impact the other activity you're putting in. So you getting out and meeting people puts you in a better positive, you know, positive energy, more, more amped up energy. So now you're making a cold call with that energy. You're going to have more success making that call than if you're sitting behind a desk for 8 hours hating what you're doing.

Absolutely. And I'll take that a step further. That same mentor, when I first, when I first came to Lockton, I, because it was such a grind, I would go home and I would self-medicate. I'd start, you know, I'd crack a cocktail and then I'd be like, well, I don't know, that would turn into 3. And then I was just like, you know, so it was just I ended up getting in this really unhealthy cycle. Quite frankly. I put on like 45 pounds. I'm not even kidding. And it was just, I didn't realize I had gotten to a really bad place, quite frankly. And she gave me a book. She didn't like call me out on it. She gave me a book about health and wellness written by a functional medicine doctor who I'm a big fan of now. And it put me on this health journey that goes directly back to what you said. You know, it was, I focused on putting good foods in my body, getting sleep, limiting the drinking, working out. And I'll tell you what, that was what really propelled me was kind of focusing on me first. And like you said, the energy, like it dramatically changed the way I approached the job. You know, I look at this as like a high performance. I want to be a high performer in my industry, just like an athlete or a special warfare operator would be. And so I think in order to do that, you have to have things like that, that, that again, give you energy, give you the high performance mentality so you can show up and do the things that kind of suck, but you know you have to do. And so I think you're spot on, um, giving yourself that space to have the energy to do that.

Likewise, you're spot on in your comments about how you— what— how you do one thing is how you do everything. So if you are disciplined and committed off the field with your health and your wellness and your diet and your nutrition, it will absolutely impact what you're doing in insurance, in your business. And I hope people heard that because I think in our industry too, you sell benefits. I've always felt this way with benefits specifically. Like if I'm going to go out and preach what I preach about benefits, which has a lot to do with health and wellness and things like that, I better look the part in some way, shape, or form.

Yeah, couldn't agree more.

I think that's important. Is there anything, given that you are kind of the— you said my best approach is not to have an approach. Is there anything, though, in your weekly routine that you would consider non-negotiable with business?

And actually, it's funny because coaches I've worked with have said, don't focus on the output, focus on the tactics to get there. That's how high-performance and abundant people growth mindset people approach things. I don't— I wouldn't say like on a weekly basis I have anything like that that I could point to. I do have metrics like I know how many meetings a month and meetings a year I need to get to to hit the goals that I need to hit. So it's more of an outcomes-based metric, but I can on a monthly basis I can kind of check myself and be like, okay, well, what did you do that drove this or did not drive it. But no, I mean, on a weekly basis, not really. It's— I do, I do. I am pretty careful to make sure that each week I'm doing things that are prospecting because once you start to build a book, you now have client responsibilities and you're meeting with the teams, you're making sure that things are getting delivered correctly and, and then, you know, managing that with travel because I don't have a territory here. We have clients all over the country and stuff. So So just managing the calendar and being kind of having a good time management system, I think is important and making sure that you're not neglecting prospecting and client activities and balancing that appropriately. But no, I do not. I'm sorry to disappoint you, Andy. I do not have anything.

No, I think, you know, it's interesting you bring that up because I look at, you know, I still block time in my business for business development, right? And I think I experienced a pretty big change a few years ago when I would block time for it, instead of figuring out like, oh, I'm going to send this many emails or DMs or whatever, I just literally started labeling that block of time opportunistic chaos. And all I'm going to do for this time period is send a bunch of stuff out there. My whole thought was, if I send a bunch of messages out there, some are going to get returned and this is going to turn into activity. But I didn't have a plan, I didn't have a strategy, was just and every time I do that, it works.

Yeah.

So I, I would, I would agree. I block time, but it's not like I have a specific plan of how many of certain activities I'm going to complete. It's just, no, I'm going to use this time to go ballistic on messaging and sales and putting my name and stuff out there because I know if I put that work in, it's going to return, it's going to create activity. And it's, and it's that energy of knowing when I do this, it will create activity.

Yeah. And I relate with that very much because that's what I'll do. I block off a few hours and then that might look like some LinkedIn outreaches from the stuff I learned working with you. That might look like some cold outreaches on people that I just, or, you know, now I'm starting to kind of find that I have some industry verticalization in my book so I can, I have really good references or names I can drop that it's like, hey, I've got some experience in your industry. So I'm becoming a little more specific in my outreach, whereas before it was just a shotgun approach. Like, I don't care what you look like or who you are, I'm reaching out now. It's a little more specific. Sometimes that's like looking at my networking groups and being like, who have I not talked to in a while? Or who, who is— I know is open, but I'm trying not to be. My approach is where I tell people all the time I'm a bad sales guy because I'm not. I'm not. I don't want to be annoying ever. I had a boss early in the business that told me always be around but never in the way. And that's kind of my approach. It's like I want them to remember me, but I don't want to do it and be a nuisance because I don't like when people are that way to me. So, so, you know, or so, so anyway, yeah, it's exactly what you just described. Like I'm doing revenue generating activities that I know can pay off or will pay off, but it just looks different. And it's like what feels good, what feels right in that day based on what's going on in my life or what's going on. It with compliance or in the industry, just different things that kind of trigger where I'm going to find—

I, I would say regardless of the plan, the, the, the reason you're having success is you actually do the activity. Even though there's no set plan, you do the activity. I see countless producers spend all the time trying to figure out how many of these activities they're going to do, and then guess what? They never actually block the time to do the activities. So the numbers don't matter unless you do the work. And I think that's what separates you from everybody else. You're doing the work. And so last question, then I'm gonna go, we're gonna go into a little get to know Thomas and then we'll wrap here. You've done a lot of stuff in your career, both before insurance and after that has proven that you've gotta be mentally tough, right? You played college basketball when that wasn't even the sport you wanted to play. You went in to want to become a Navy SEAL, right? You moved into a new, new, new city that nobody, you didn't have any network. That all requires a level of mental toughness. When you look at producers today, including yourself, what do you think in our industry separates mentally tough producers from other people?

Um, I, you mean like what separate, like how do you become mentally tough or what, like, what do you, what do you think?

What do you think the, maybe a better way to ask is producers who have experienced a high level of success, there's got to be something between the ears that separates them from somebody who's been stuck in mediocrity for most of their insurance career. Do you have anything? What do you think that is? If you have an input.

I think a lot, I mean, it goes back to some of the stuff we've talked about, right? Like making sure that you're in the right mindset that you can, I mean, doing the things that back to the health and wellness and working out and, and, and I mean meditation. And I think you talk a lot about cold plunging. I think that's incredible. Saunaing, whatever it is for you.

Yeah.

Getting yourself in a good mind space. I mean everything, I think this job is not a hard job. I think it's a mentally tough job. And I tell people that all the time. So if you, if you're not working on how to get yourself in a good head space so that you can have grit and resilience and, and the, the stick-to-it-ness, you're not going to be successful. And I think that also, I mean, it also allows you to become mentally tough when you— and I guess you somewhat have to be mentally tough to put in the work. But if you're putting in the work and you have a lot of activity, then it allows you to weather the storms of long sales cycles and realizing that like when I get introduced to people, a lot of times they're not ready to make a change or even contemplate change. And I've got to be okay with that. So I come— I have a coach. We talk a lot about mindset and abundance versus scarcity. And if you're approaching things with an abundance mindset, you're not, you're not going in. They don't smell your commission breath because you need to sell today, right? Yeah. So, I mean, I don't think you can be successful in this world without having some kind of grit and mental toughness. And where that comes from, I mean, for me, it was everything you mentioned, you know, growing up in athletics, learning how to lose, learning how to succeed. You know, going through the— trying to prepare myself mentally and physically to be in the Navy SEAL program. You learn a lot about yourself and you have to put— you have to think about— you have to have good self-talk, positive self-talk. You have to be hard on self, not down on self. And you have to kind of like almost like thinking, you know, people talk about visualizing the game and being in the game. I do a lot of visualization, like understanding, okay, I'm going to be here. What's that going to look like? What are the possible outcomes? What does success look like? What does failure look like? I mean, there's a lot. I think there's a lot of work that goes into being mentally tough, and there's really no way to rush it either. And you have to be willing to do that.

I think one of the most underappreciated skills in sales is the mindset and the energy you put into the work you do. I think a lot of producers don't understand their energy dictates their success and they're, and they're not seeing it. And I think that you have obviously displayed what happens when you put the right energy into the work and mentally knowing that I, I have the, I have the confidence I can do this. Putting yourself in the framework of I will succeed, the visualizing you do and the energy of creating a schedule or a way of prospecting that lights you up. So you bring the right energy to it. Very underappreciated, but I will tell you, it is the trait that probably ties all very successful producers, and it's what separates them from everybody else. So, um, this has been an awesome conversation, man. I really appreciate it. We're gonna wrap here with a few rapid-fire questions to get to know Thomas Cox a little bit. I did not prepare you for these. Um, but I am a man of habits, disciplines, rituals. And so I'm going to ask you a quick series of questions of just some of your habits and rituals. So I'm a big proponent of the morning routine, and I'd be curious to hear yours because you don't have kids, so you, like me, don't have the excuse. What does your typical morning routine look like?

Um, well, I, I, I try to do some sort of activity every morning from a, like, a either And that's variety too, right? I like to do resistance training, so I've got a tonal at home. So I have different workouts that I do from a lifting standpoint and then some kind of cardio. So some days I want to go run, some days I'll just do a walk. Other days I will lift. I— most days I'm taking a cold shower, which is miserable. I'd like to get a cold plunge and get on your level, but my wife hasn't let me do that yet. And then I mean, so, I mean, that's, that's really the only thing in the morning. And, you know, I focus on sleep. Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not a guy that says I'm getting up at 5 o'clock every day. I usually, I wear a Whoop and I look at the, the night before, I look at my sleep need and what's going to get me to green recovery and try to get really, um, good sleep. I think that's a strong foundation and it's, I can perform so much higher when I'm well rested. So I focus on that and then, and then activity in the morning.

Sounds like it's a continuing trend of not, no, not one solid plan, but you're gonna do something.

Yeah, I wanna be moving, right? It's like, yeah.

Yeah. Which, uh, which actually is a good segue to question too. What is, you know, if you had in your morning routine with the workout, do you have a workout, a go-to workout of choice?

Well, so I have pre-built, um, lifting routines on the Tonal. So I have a, I have one around chest and triceps, back and biceps, legs, and then like a shoulder slash touch-up other things. So I have 4 that are pre-built. So I, I, okay. And that actually has made it, again, back to consistency. I'm not a good guy at consistency. So having, my wife got me the Tonal and I was like, what are you doing? That's so expensive. I can just go to a gym. It's actually like changed my, my consistency with working out. Cause it's easy to just go in, not have to think about what I'm gonna do. I've got it pre-built and I just do it. I know how long it takes. And then when I don't feel like lifting or if I have gotten in all my workouts that week, go take a jog or take a walk.

Yeah. Love it. Um, most people don't know this about you, but you actually sang the national anthem at a Kansas City Royals game. So you have a, you have a talent a lot of people don't know about. What was that experience like?

It was incredible. It was, uh, nerve-wracking. Um, I grew up doing musical theater and I was an Eagle Scout as well, so I'm on the board for Scouts here in Kansas City are on a committee for the Scout Day. And they had an, they, they said, I was in my first meeting ever and they said, well, we never get anybody to fill the national anthem. It's one of the assets we can fill. Like, should we just give that back to the Royals? So I texted my guy. I'm like, and I'm a sucker for an experience. Like I just, I love having something different. Like, I don't know. Just, I like fun experiences. So I texted him. I was like, hey, this might be weird. I don't know, but I'm an Eagle Scout and I used to sing, so I'd love to do this if you guys would be open to it. So I had to audition and then got to do it. And my wife surprised me, got a party bus with a bunch of— I didn't tell anybody because I honestly, like, I don't really sing much anymore. So I was a little— I was like, I don't know how this is going to go, but it's a crowd full of people I don't know. And then, of course, one of my Lockton buddies was in the crowd, taped it.

Just happenstance happened to be there.

Happened to be there because it was a Sunday game. He tapes it. He sends it to Lockton. They put it on the internal intranet. So then they've had— so it's like become this thing. But anyway, yeah, it was a phenomenal experience and I would do it again any time.

Yeah, that's awesome, man. Well, it's been an honor to have you. This was a great conversation. This was a great conversation. I think a lot of people are going to find this very, very helpful. Dude, you, like I said, since, since we— since I've worked with you, I mean, I think it's— I think it's impressive. What I wanted people to hear today was you actually don't have a solid plan. It's not like you can sit there and go, well, I've done this, this, this, and this, and this to get to my level. It's no, it's constantly moving. I think that's the key. Even, even with your morning workouts, right? It's not like you have a, this is my thing on Monday, Tuesday. No, no, I'm just gonna make sure I'm always moving. And it's the same with prospecting. Doesn't have to be the certain thing, but it's always moving.

Yeah. Revenue generation, revenue generating activity. What is that? Right.

So I love to hear that. Well, I hope everybody took a lot of notes from this one, man. Um, I'm sure there are people who are going to appreciate it if, If somebody wanted to reach out, is the best way to do that is check you out on LinkedIn?

Yeah, LinkedIn's a good place. I'm always active on, I mean, not as active as you would like me to be.

I know I've been pushing you there. We're going to get you there someday, but it's Thomas Cox, Lockton. I think you've got Kansas City as your locale. Is that right in there? Is it Omaha? Let me see here.

No, I think it's, I think it's just—

This says United States. So Thomas Cox, Lockton, United States. Go check him out, guys. Thomas Cox with Lockton, man. Thank you. You're awesome.

Thanks, Andy. You too, man.

Be good, everybody.