Why Great Producers Lose Deals They Should Win with Guffy Wright

Understanding that value is always in motion and that principle of what your client values, what they valued 3 years ago may not be what they value today. You gotta get aligned. Producers struggle the most with value, their own value proposition, their own source of genius or what they value, and then how to deploy that value into the marketplace where it's received, understood, and appreciated. That's what I think the largest problem is. It's just cognitive friction everywhere, and AI is gonna make it worse.

Hey, hey, welcome back to the Accelerate Your Insurance Sales podcast. Andy Neary, CEO and founder of Complete Game Consulting. I am excited today. Uh, it isn't often I have somebody come back on as a repeat guest, let alone Guffy, I think it's a repeat guest within about 6 months. That's, uh, that's unheard of.

I know, this is a mistake. This is a mistake, Andy.

But I got joining, uh, joining me today, Guffy Wright, National Sales Leader of the Real Estate Practice at the Mahoney Group. Uh, we got some exciting news to talk about today. Guffy, welcome back to the show.

It's great to be here with you, Andy. I appreciate you, man.

Yeah, no, I, uh, this is gonna be a great conversation. You know, I think very few times in one's insurance career We talk about the, the one-of-one producer journey, as we call it. And there's 5 phases to the producer journey. First stage is builder, which is, okay, you're just beginning your insurance career. What you're really trying to figure out is, am I going to make it? Then you become a performer, which is, okay, you haven't validated yet, but you're showing signs you're going to, you're consistent. Then you become a professional, which means you validated. Now it's time to learn the habits, the rituals to become a 7-figure producer. And then you become an authority.

Yeah.

When it is, you hit that million-dollar mark and you wanna keep scaling. And it's at that point most producers run outta time, right? You experience that and you have gotta have a way to amplify your expertise. And one of those ways to amplify your expertise is by writing a book. And very few producers ever embark on that journey. I haven't yet, but that's what we're here to talk about today. Tell the, uh, why don't we talk about this little book you've been writing?

Yeah, it's, um, you know, it's a project near and dear to my heart, and it's taken me almost a year to put this together and working with the publisher. But really, it comes from 20 years of advisory work, the ups, ups and downs, the, um, clients that have taught me things, even in my own marriage and family life, kind of those stages that you talked about, how to collapse time on those stages so you don't have to take as long as I did to, to build a multimillion-dollar book Why did you write the book? So the book is called Attach High, and I wrote it initially to put velocity behind my dad's legacy. Um, he passed away in January of 2025, but he was more than my dad. He was a business partner, a mentor, a friend. Um, not that he wasn't in the insurance business, but he gave me a lot of, uh, business advice. But after about a year after his passing, I realized that my relationship with him had kind of gotten stagnant. I had accepted his death. That wasn't the hard part. It was— the hard part was my relationship with him was, was just at a standstill. So I had to attach high, attach higher to a living, breathing version of him, and then detach low from my earthly relationship with him and something better, because he ultimately taught me how to guide others in making high-stakes or tough decisions. And that's what this book is all about. And kind of on the attach high front too, and I'm sure we'll get into it later, How do you attach to the buyer's best interest and detach from your own commission? And so the, the title is kind of twofold there. Um, both are crucial in guiding, um, humans through tough decisions, which our business owners, our clients have to make hard decisions every day. And, um, this book will teach people how to do that.

Yeah. Isn't it kind of ironic how sales advice always applies to life?

It really does. You, if you try to separate the two, you're just gonna end up, um, back at, at the same, uh, starting point and, and realizing that, wow, You can't scale one without the other.

I'm gonna read, if it's okay with you, I'm gonna read the author's note from the book and then, oh, that's kind of you. Look, I gotta, I got a question that I want to ask you right, right coming off the back end of it. So here's the author's note. The title of this book comes from the hardest year of my life. When my father died, I was faced with a choice that grief forces on everyone who has lost a loved one. Stay attached to the loss or attached to something higher. I chose higher, detached from what I could not change, attached to the legacy, the lessons, and the version of myself he always believed I could become. Attach high, detach low. Those four words became more than a way to process grief; they became the operating law behind everything in this book. I spent nearly twenty years guiding business owners, executives, and team members through some of the highest stakes decisions of their careers. My career was built on insurance and advisory work on the insure in the insurance and advisory world. But the work was never about insurance. It was about understanding why high-stakes decisions stall even when value is clear. The stories in this book come from that world, but the system I'm going to teach you is not an insurance system. It is a human decision-making system. It applies anywhere the stakes are high, the emotions are real, and the decisions involve trust between 2 or more people. Modern sales frameworks are built to create value and close. They are not built to make decisions once the value is clear. If decisions stall after agreement, your process is incomplete. V3, which we'll talk about, is a system. Decision velocity is the outcome. Decision velocity is the speed and direction of a decision once friction is removed and alignment is locked. If you're an advisor, a consultant, a founder, a leader, or anyone who guides people through decisions that matter, this book is for you. And in truth, that is everyone. All of us help people we care about make decisions—a spouse weighing hard choice, a child facing something they're afraid of, a partner or a team navigating uncertainty. The decisions in this book carry dollar signs; yours may not. The friction is the same, and so is the way through. You don't need another book on how buyers think; you need to remove what is in the way. Every human values something, fears something. And need strengthening. This book introduces a framework built around that reality. I call it V3, and it will show you how to guide people through the default human decision-making system, how value creates greater clarity, how vulnerability builds deeper safety, and how validation helps people feel stronger and more certain in their decisions. This is not a sales book. It will make you better at sales. This is not a leadership book. It will make you a better leader. This book will guide you on how to remove the friction from any high-stakes decision so value can move. The language is mine. The principles are universal. I think that gives people a pretty damn clear picture of what this thing is about. And I am guessing, Guffey, just by reading that author's note, we probably have a lot of advisors who already want to get their hands on this book. But here's what I'm curious about. Going through the manuscript, the opening chapters are surprisingly personal. You share a lot of struggles with stagnation, comparison, even depression, what a lot of producers go through. Why was it important to lead with your own story instead of what a lot of people do in our industry? They go right into the sales tactics.

So even in this podcast, I'm a little uncomfortable. Like, I'm trying— I want to teach people something right away, give them the framework and give them something practical. But you just read the framework is called V3, and the middle V is vulnerability. So how am I going to write a book that includes vulnerability without being vulnerable myself. And what I learned during those 4 years of stagnation is, and we've talked about this, is that stagnation is worse than failure, because failure does provide you clarity. And I was just miserable. I had issues with comparison. No matter how much I sold, I was still unhappy. And ultimately, what I had to do was remove what was in the way in order, so, that my own value, what I value, could actually reach its natural conclusion. And I realized that's just like how we help our business owners be strong in their decisions. So I can't write a book that has vulnerability in it without being real. And elite advisors, the subtitle of the book is How Elite Advisors Remove Friction from High-Stakes Decisions. Elite advisors will sniff that out right away. So you, I had to be vulnerable. I didn't have a choice. And I didn't, I, I can't say I enjoyed those chapters at all writing them.

Well, you know, you bring up an actual, a really good point about The elite advisors would sniff that out right away. There was a— I heard Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary Vee, talk about this. When anytime you're building a brand and you're putting yourself out there, writing a book is a great example of it, right? You can fool the 80% who are below you. You can't fool the 20% above you. And that's the point you just made is if you wrote a book about vulnerability, yet you were not vulnerable in the book, the guys, the men and women playing at or above your level would sniff that out right away. Yep. That's very, very well said.

And if you've ever built anything you're proud of, or if you ever built anything great, your identity is gonna get messed with along the, along the way. And so that's what this helps identify and ultimately get you unstuck.

Yeah. And I think a lot of producers look up at a guy like you, Guffy, and probably just assume you have everything dialed in. Uh, you don't have any faults, you don't have any weaknesses. How can a guy write $3+ million And, and not be perfect, right? In our industry. And we think these guys like you, men and women who are, who are scaling massive books, are just ironclad with no weaknesses. And I think that's anything but the truth. You know, I, I talk to, we work with a guy right now with an $8 million book. That guy still deals with imposter syndrome.

Yep. And it, I agree with you. What's interesting is there, I give a training every month to our salespeople and I could give them the greatest training of all time. Nuts and bolts, blocking and tackling, how to be successful in this business. But every time after I give a training, they come up to me and say, Guffey, when you shared about how you failed, that really resonated with me. When you shared that you were in your office scared to just make a call because you didn't know what to do, that really helped me. And I'm just thinking, wow, all I have to do is tell you how bad I suck and you guys are listening. Great. That's a lot easier than going to create a recipe guaranteed $1 million, a new business every year, right? So But vulnerability is powerful. But if just given out, and if just— I call it vomit vulnerability. Yeah. We can get into that a little later. If you're just vulnerable telling everybody your story without actually leading with value, that there can create some friction there that we might get into a little later.

Well, but it is a, it is a point worth mentioning. You know, I had a big, big, big learning lesson in my career, uh, when I started public speaking back in 2016. I would always share stories from my pro baseball career as kind of a way to get people to know me. But I had never shared the vulnerability of why I failed in pro baseball. And I would deliver a keynote and people would come up to me and say, that was great, man. Love the information. But it just didn't feel like it was actually resonating and hitting with anybody. So one time, you know, my next keynote, I said, screw it. I'm actually gonna tell the audience why I failed in pro baseball. And it was the first time I had anybody come up to me after the talk and hug me and say, that was awesome. Yeah, it's powerful stuff. That vulnerability, man, makes a difference. You know, one of the biggest statements in the book, uh, is that value doesn't lose, friction wins. I think that's a completely different way to think about sales for most. What do you mean by that?

I believe every stalled decision, important decision, including a business decision, comes down to 3 different types of friction: not clear, not safe, not aligned. So because of that, when you actually flip those upside down, it creates the ideal condition for a decision to move. Clarity, safety, and direction. Now, I have lost deals that were $500,000, $600,000— I was $500,000 or $600,000 cheaper, and I couldn't believe that I lost, and I couldn't understand why. It's because the message wasn't clear. They didn't feel safe enough to move, and I didn't make them strong in any particular direction. So there's a sales process that everybody has, whether they have it written down or they just wing it. Everyone has kind of a sales process. You teach how to dial that in and that's great and everybody should have a better sales process. There's also a business decision-making process, how buyers buy. But advisors a lot of times don't spend time on the actual decision process of a deal. How does a human actually want to be guided through a decision? If you have the most value, we want that value to win. In 20 years of advisor work, the most frustrating part of this business is when you're more valuable and you lose. And it only comes down to those 3 types of friction: cognitive, emotional, or directional. Or said simpler, not clear, not safe, not aligned. But you can think, if your advisors want to think about how, how could I create more clarity, safety, and direction in that sequence in my sales process? V3 is not a sales process. I'm not laying that out in the book. It's a decision-making process. But I do argue and believe It does complete any sales process you have because it sequences it.

Yeah, I'm glad you talk about this. I mean, this is your framework and I didn't mean to cut you off there. I apologize. But I talk to producers all the time about the fact, like, if it was just a logical decision, Guffey, every time you came in with a cheaper rate, you should win, correct?

Yeah. If it's just logical and you have better coverage and you— that's it.

But there's something else going on. There's something else going on. And every producer's gone through that scenario where you were better coverage, lower rates, and yet you still didn't win. And I think this book and what you talk about has nailed it on the head. It's because you don't understand the buyer's decision-making system. Yep.

And there's a lot of stuff out there in behavioral science of why deals stall or why people make decisions emotionally first, but there's nothing out there that gives you a practical guide to actually remove what's in the way. Just remove what's in the way. Not persuasion, not convincing, not sitting there strategizing for an hour, driving yourself crazy. It's like, how do I just remove what's in the way so value can reach its natural conclusion?

Most producers assume stalled deals mean they need another meeting. You were talking about typically we're solving the wrong problems. So when a producer has a prospect stuck in the pipeline, they think it means, okay, I need to jump on another call with them, jump on another meeting with them, when the reality is they're probably solving the wrong problem. What do you mean by that?

Yeah, if value is already clear, more value is not going to help the situation. So, and a lot of times we think the value is clear on our side. We don't understand exactly what that human values. So for example, Andy, if I was to ask you to think of a breed of dog, what kind of dog are you thinking of?

Golden Lab.

Golden Lab. I'm thinking of a Great Dane. Already we have some cognitive friction between us. Well, somebody else might be thinking of a hot dog. Okay, so how do you actually make sure that you have clarity on value? And so as soon as you have clarity on value, adding more value is not going to help the situation. More data, more quotes, more coverage analysis, more comparison— that's, that's not going to help remove what's in the way. Another meeting may be, may be appropriate. But that meeting should be about let's get aligned, let's get on the same page, or let's get misaligned. I mean, either way is a good thing. And so I would just caution everybody to not overload your, your, your client. They're dealing with a million things. They just, they want to check 4 or 5 boxes in their head and get, get clear on what they value.

Well, and on a side note there, wouldn't you say that part of that V3 is it's okay to have them get to a quick no?

Yeah, it's a decision-making system for alignment. Or misalignment. I mean, if you want to build a house in New York and your wife wants to build a house in LA, you got a problem, right? You could be clear on what you want. We both want a mansion. You could feel emotionally safe and both have high trust. But if you are not aligned, that's going to create some problems. And that's where a lot of advisors struggle is, okay, well, it's all about trust. It's all about trust. Trust is not the currency of decision-making. Period. Trust does enable movement and allows things to happen during V3, and it's foundational for any relationship. But what actually moves a decision is alignment. That's what moves the decision.

Love that note. Take, take a note of that. Trust is not the currency.

It's not. I've had a client call me, former client now, and I said, haven't we built trust over the years? Don't you trust us that we're doing XYZ? Like, Why are you leaving us? This is a $120,000 commission account. And he said, Guthrie, oh, I, I trust you. I mean, I trust you with my life. In fact, I still want to go out to eat with you. I think you're great. We're not aligned on the direction that, um, I'm taking the company, and your team is not aligned, and they weren't listening in a lot of the direction that we were heading. And I thought, wow, that's a massive lesson to learn, because trust does get people in the room, but alignment is what actually moves people out of the room to go execute.

Yeah. Now, and that's a great example of a, of a former client that says, this is just business. I still like you, man. I still grab dinner, but we're not in alignment. I can't do business with you.

Correct.

And I think a lot of people take all losses personally, right?

Correct.

So you talk about the 3 types of friction, cognitive, emotional, and directional. Which one do you think producers struggle with the most?

I think cognitive, honestly. Because it's the opposite of clarity. And because we're in this business every single day, we think our clients understand what we're talking about. I think many advisors are excellent at building trust. Excellent. And relationship building. I think they struggle the most with actual clarity, knowing what that client values. I lost a deal. I was $2 million cheaper. And I thought that client valued premium and coverage. Well, when I lost it before, I mean, talk about a total, you know, self-esteem gut punch. Like, they paid $2 million not to go with me. And what happened, I called them and said, hey, I have to understand this or I can't sleep. Like, tell me, why didn't you go with me? And they said, Guffy, we're going public in a couple years. We, we needed an advisor, or we need people that can help us raise $200 million. You told us you didn't have a lot of access to venture capitalists. You don't have a family home office arm. We're willing to pay the $200 million because we have to raise, you know, 9 figures plus. And that was more valuable to us. And so then it's like, okay, how do I understand what they actually value? Because people value different things at different times for different reasons. And you've been in the business. Nobody, nobody called you during a tough claim and said, Can you shave 10% off my price? Right? Because they don't value it in that moment. Same thing. If you— what's more valuable to you today, a briefcase full of cash or 8 gallons of water? Well, cash. We'll take cash all day. Well, if you're in the desert for 7 days, now what?

Changes.

Now you're going to want that water. And so understanding that value is always in motion and that principle of what your client values, what they valued 3 years ago may not be what they value today. You gotta get aligned. And then also that prospect. So that's a long way to answer that. I think, I think that producers struggle the most with value, their own value proposition, their own source of genius or what they value, and then how to deploy that value into the marketplace where it's received, understood, and appreciated. That's what I think the largest problem is, is just cognitive friction everywhere. And AI is gonna make it worse.

Oh yeah. Well, and you give such a good example there of your own story of losing that big account, that big opportunity where you thought it was a no-brainer based on premium. Yeah. And their decision was actually had nothing to do with insurance. Yeah. And nothing at all. Such a good, such a good lesson for people, producers to learn that this is— these are those high-stakes decisions you talk about that I don't think enough producers give enough credit to. You know, one thing you talk about a lot in the book, it's referenced a lot, is decision velocity.

Yeah.

Talk to us about that. How is that different from just having a good sales process?

So velocity is not speed. It is directional movement when friction is removed. So that reframe right there helps because a lot of Type A or a lot of really successful people, they just push, push, push, charge, charge, charge, super motivated. But ultimately, when you hit a wall, it's not about doing more. It's actually about addition by subtraction, doing less. So decision velocity is when a decision is made after All the friction is removed. And so, if you can do that in, as you're guiding people make decisions, whether it's a client, a business owner, a team member, a spouse, a child, whatever, if you can just remove what's in the way, people are actually really smart once they know what they value and they know what they want. Now, you just have to help them see it clearly and then make them strong in their decision.

Yeah, it's, I know it's a lot. When I think about, No, I, you just, you said something that I thought was so appropriate because I remember when I was at the, the Mahoney event in March, or was that February? February. And Larry spoke, right? Larry Linney. Yeah. And he talked about when a producer is ready to make that elevation to elite status, the first thing that producer has to do is decide what they're going to let go of. And I think you even mentioned in your case, it was Things like golf. Like, I'm not gonna learn how to get good at golf 'cause I gotta grow my book. And it's kind of the same thing you just said there, which is if we want to increase decision velocity, it's not about what you add, it's about what you get rid of.

Any sales coach or any executive coach you talk to, if they're any good, they'll first start with subtraction. And— Oh, well said. Yeah. When you can subtract things out of your life, that's when the real freedom and the real clarity comes. Not by adding more, but by taking things off of your plate, taking things away. And letting go is so hard for commission jobs. And because it's always produced something for you, and you can always go back to that old process, your old self, your past self. But man, everything that's juicy and valuable is in the future, your best future self just waiting for you. And you can't get there by adding more. If you could, I would have done it.

Yeah, we're right there right now as a business. So I get It's, uh, for, in order for us to keep scaling, we've gotta learn to figure out what we're gonna let go of or what we're gonna get rid of on my calendar primarily. So it's, uh, it's a very appropriate right now. Let's get to the, uh, meat and potatoes, man. V3, value, vulnerability, and validation. It's the core framework in the book. Yes. So walk us through, walk us through these 3 principles and why are they in that order?

Great question, because the sequence does matter. Um, value creates clarity, vulnerability expands and tests that psychological safety that exists, and then validation is what actually creates direction. Because we are trying to, in sequence, go clarity, safety, and direction. And when you do that with a buyer, it really helps your decision— their decision-making process. But we've talked a little bit about value, we've talked a little bit about vulnerability. But validation is the least understood term in human psychology. Validation, a lot of times people think is cheerleading, or they think is affirmation, and validation is not that. Validation comes from the word validus, the Latin word validus, that means to make strong. So when you make people strong in their decisions, then you can get in front of buyer's regret. You can get in front of a lot of the, you know, is this safe enough to move with this new person? And it's really a powerful force, validation. So when you lead with value, you've earned the right to be vulnerable and you can start having this dialogue back and forth with each other. And vulnerability is, hey, this is where I failed 2 years ago with a client just like you. This is where we got taught a hard lesson and that'll never happen again on my book of business. Do you know how much safety that creates for a client? And 2, when you talk to a client and say, or a prospect and mean it, this is what I would do if I were you. Even if you decide not to go with us. You'll just see their nervous system relax when delivered authentically. If you don't believe you have to sequence these, let me give you an example, because there might be some people listening think, no, I just go in, I lead with my heart, and all good. If you go in there and say, hey, Andy, I'm just here to do what's best for you, and that's your first sentence, that's immediate Spidey senses. I'm not— I don't trust you. What do you want? Right? But if you say that after you've already given value, you've given clarity, then all of a sudden it means, it means a lot. And then the third is validation, which is to make people strong. And in advisory work, it can be hard because a lot of times you're talking to prospects that fundamentally are saying things that you disagree with or that don't benefit you, right? And so how do you not just cheerlead them or give them affirmation How do you make them strong? And I always say your first word back to your prospect or your client or even your spouse for that matter should be your breath. Your first word is your breath. It resets the deck. Then you can respect them and actually guide them through what they value, what they told you they value. So that is the, that's the sequence. Value plus vulnerability plus validation equals decision velocity.

You know, I actually have to thank you because I think you and I had that conversation back in January and February when you were talking about writing the book, the whole concept of even if we don't work together, here's what I would do if I were you.

Mm-hmm.

We have used that more now in our— so all our calls are virtual, right? And so we do a discovery call and then on bigger opportunities, there's typically a second, what we define as a strategy call, which is nothing more than a proposal. But in that call towards the end, I notice when I look 'em in the eye and I say, listen, whether or not you work with us or not, this is what I would do if I were you. That is the moment we typically close 'em.

It's powerful stuff.

It's very powerful stuff. Where do you think a lot of producers screw up in the VA3 process and create a lot of unnecessary friction?

So there's 2, 2 are the biggest. If you are a natural empath, you typically struggle with validation, making somebody strong, disagreeing but respecting them, having boundaries and challenging them. Hey, I understand why you think that way, but actually this is, I believe, the strongest way to do this, XYZ. Natural empaths struggle with that. The other side is kind of like these hard-charging top performers. They're great at value and validation, but they struggle with vulnerability because their whole life they've gotten what they've wanted through grit, through hard work, through effort, and just totally outworking people. And so those would be the 2 biggest ones, just depending if you're a natural empath or not. We have a lot of people that they may have more of a client executive personality. They absolutely crush it at sales because of that empathetic gene, right? And you have people that are introverts that absolutely crush in advisory work. Because a lot of times they're natural empaths. So, if they can get the value dialed in, both sides can kind of do good. But man, as soon as you sequence value, vulnerability, validation, it works significantly in your personal life, but it makes you really, really strong in your professional life as you're guiding people and making decisions.

Yeah, man, I, I'm a big believer. I'm an introvert myself by nature. And so, that empath part of it, I think, is a big piece. I think a lot of people come into our industry, there's a lot more introverts who sell than we realize, and there's a lot who do really well because of that empath, that ability to be vulnerable with people. I think that's really important. You have a term you use, I hear you talk about it all the time when we're chatting and it's in the book, and I'd love to learn more. Co-anchoring. What is it and why is it such a game changer for producers?

Well, I'm glad you asked this question because this is how you actually determine what the prospect values. Okay. If I was to ask you, Andy, or a prospect, tell me what success looks like for your business. I don't pretend to know everything about your company. I've done my research. I've been online, seen your LinkedIn press releases. But tell me what success looks like for you and your business in the next 2 to 3 years. Then I shut up and I listen to everything they say because that is what they value. Then what co-anchoring is, is I tie my value To the prospect's future ambition. Okay, now we're co-anchored, because if you can compete in the future, if you can compete on strategy, you remove a lot of emotional friction, because then you're not talking about them having to break up with or have a hard conversation yet with their incumbent. You're competing in the future. Who's most— you want to do business with the people that are most aligned to your future ambition, period. You don't want to team up with a bunch of people that want to go in different directions than you want to go. I mean, if you're a business owner and you're listening to this, think about it. Do you want a broker that just wants to coast on his book, or do you want a broker that has a high-performing team that's an absolute Jedi master in your industry, right? You want to be co-anchored. So that's what I call co-anchoring, and it's the first guide skill of value. You're co-anchored together now in a future of your prospect's ambition, and you tie your value to that. That's when cognitive ease starts to happen, and then you can be vulnerable with them and test that safety and expand it from there. Then you go to validation after that, which, which, uh, we can get into a little later. But that, that is what I call co-anchoring. It's, it's something elite advisors do instinctively. I just named it co-anchoring because you are now tying your expertise to their future ambition. I give some, some good stories in the book about When it works, when it doesn't work. And, uh, some, some interesting stuff that I think if I wish I would've had if I was, you know, in the business 5 to 10 years.

Well, I'll tell you what, if I'm listening to this, this is a sales masterclass right now. Uh, Guffey, I'm about, I think above and beyond the podcast here and being selfish, pushing it out through our podcast, we might just use this as a sales masterclass because that's what I mean, the V3, right? Value, vulnerability, and validation.

Mm-hmm.

I hope every producer tuning into this episode right now, right, just wrote those 3 words down because I can tell you from my own experience, without those 3, I would never have had sales success. And I was probably a guy early in my career, Guffey, who always delivered value, was never vulnerable enough cuz I felt I had to be perfect. Right. And I definitely had, did not succeed in the validation part. And so what ended up happening was I created a bunch of prospects who were my friends, but I never had the credibility to get hired. I think it was learning how to be vulnerable and that validation you talk about, where it's that, that calm, that confidence, but not arrogance.

Mm-hmm.

To be able to look at the prospect in the eye and either challenge them or say, listen, If I'm you, you need to do this. Whether we work together, you need to do this. Like, people don't understand how much of a sales hack that is if you can do it.

Amen. And I want to thank you, Andy. You were one of the first people that I was vulnerable with and shared this framework with. And I just want to, I just want to thank you for that. I mean, at the time it was probably clunky. I was emotional because it was all about, you know, a lot about my dad's death and yeah. And it probably didn't make any sense to you, but you told me, you said, hey, Guffey, your passion and conviction behind this is, is what's going to ultimately help your sales force and help you write this book. And, uh, that gave me— that's validation. You may not even have understood it or agreed with everything I was saying at the time, but you gave me validation. You made me strong in a decision to write a book, which for me is scary. I'm not a natural empath. Shocker.

Yep.

So For me, that really helped, and you were a big part of that. And that's why too, you also helped me with a chapter in here called Attraction.

We're going to dive into that right here.

But I want to thank you like that. You made the book better, not just by making me strong in my decision, but then contributing and helping me with a chapter on attraction. You're the absolute authority on this and the advisory work. Well, I appreciate that, man.

I mean, your conviction though, that when I— if somebody ever says to me, describe Guffey, Right to me. Other than you are the only guy. I will say this on a humorous note. I was actually—I got to share this. John Mark Tichar, if you're listening in, you will absolutely appreciate this. So you and John—you know John Mark from Assurex Global, right? Yeah. You guys both do real estate, and I was describing the difference between he, him, and you to to John Mark. I said, "John Mark, the difference between you two is you are very." Calculated. You're going to think about it. And so if I gave you a gun at the firing range, you're going to listen to directions. You're going to pay attention. If I gave that gun to Guffey, he's going to go, and then he's going, should I have done that?

Yeah, I got to make sure it works.

You, you're not only ready, fire, aim. I think you're fire, aim, ready. Yes, there you go. But that's also why you've been so successful. But I was going to share this with you, Guffey. We just won a big deal with a nice agency a couple weeks ago, and this vulnerability thing really hit for me here because they literally, they were, they were interviewing us and 2 others, and I don't know who the 2 others were, but the, the trainer, the head trainer for the agency said, why, why should we pick you? And I looked her in the eye and I said, because I used to suck at sales, but I figured it out.

So good.

And I said, you can hire, you can hire that, or you can hire someone who's always been good. Powerful stuff. And I think that went a long way to winning that deal because I was, I was honest and vulnerable. I used to suck, but I had to figure it out. And I think that makes our training effective because I had to figure it out. I didn't come in being able to sell ketchup to women in white gloves.

Yeah. Powerful stuff. It's amazing what the truth can do in a room full of humans, isn't it? Absolutely.

Well, let's talk about chapter 9.

Yeah, let's talk about it. This is the Andy Neary chapter.

My favorite chapter. Traction. Why did you choose that word instead of marketing, prospecting? You could have chosen a bunch of words. Why attraction?

Because I believe that prospecting— there's a lot of books already about prospecting. And then marketing is kind of confusing in the advisory world because we market—

A lot of people think it's quoting.

Yeah. A lot of people kind of go, huh, how did that, you know, how did that work? Attraction is, I think, everything in your career when it comes to prospecting and marketing your brand, I think you have to do it all. There's no easy way, but the highest altitude is when you are the magnet, you are the prize, and people are now attracted to your value. And so I thought, okay, I would like to call this chapter Attraction because it's a little different than just prospecting and marketing. Give people a framework to use and really understand how to deliver that, that brand awareness. So it's more about attracting your ideal clients to you over a long period of time and being consistent. That, that was the thought behind it.

So let's talk. I know you, you have a couple excerpts from the chapter, 'cause I think this is one obviously that speaks to our heart because of what we do. And, and you and I collaborated a little here on chapter 9. You know, what are some of the biggest mistakes? Before you read an excerpt, what are some of the biggest mistakes producers believe when it comes to chasing business? Why, why do you think elite producers are often more magnetic Than a lot of producers who are just out chasing business but going nowhere?

I think a big reason is they are— they have raised their standards and they have clarity on who they will work with and why. So the ideal client profile is just— it's just so important to become part of who you are and your sales process. So the ones that, uh, say no more than they say yes are the ones that have the most attraction to them, which You know, sometimes sounds counterintuitive, but it is absolutely true.

Any excerpts you want to read?

Yeah, I think something that goes along with that line, one of the things we talked about. So in the chapter I say, most advisors think attraction means being seen. It does not. Attraction means being known. There is a difference. And that difference is the distance between a crowded LinkedIn feed and a phone that rings with the right people on the other end. So It's hard sometimes for people to be consistent in on LinkedIn and in their social media platforms, because if you're an introvert, that's terrifying. Put yourself out there. And if you're used to just being around people and being able to read the room in real time, it's terrifying because you get no feedback. And so how do you be consistent over time? It's really understanding the value that you can deploy into the world. And so I knew the world had changed when I was trying to get with a prospect for 18 months. And, you know, I texted you when this happened, but this is a couple of years back. I was on a ski lift in Colorado and I got a text. I got a LinkedIn meeting. Somebody booked it straight from my page. And this is someone that I couldn't get a hold of for 18 months. They are now a client of mine. They're an ideal client. And they said, hey, when you said XYZ, that really resonated with me. You taught me more about insurance than my own broker did. They said that to me and I'd never even met them, never even had a conversation with them. And that's when I kind of knew the world had changed. So that's one thing I talk about in this chapter. And, you know, access is abundant, attention is scarce. Those are some things we talk about in here as well. And then a framework. And then I want to kind of get into some of your stuff. But I basically talk about every producer wants to raise their ceiling. Yeah, right. They want to chase bigger deals and grow their book. But I argue in attraction specifically, you cannot raise your ceiling because ceilings belong to rooms. And so the advisor grinding to break through their ceiling, a lot of times they're pushing on something that's never theirs to move. So I say, if you want a higher ceiling, don't push. You raise your floor and you change the rooms you're in, add value to those rooms, and the ceiling has nowhere to go but up. That's attraction done right.

That's good. How did it feel, man, when you were sitting on the ski lift and you saw that meeting get booked?

I thought maybe Andy knows something finally. He might be right about something. No.

That's that known feeling.

Yeah, that's the feeling of almost even— I almost feel like, like closing a deal, even though it was a meeting being booked because I was proving out a concept that I believed in, but it yet hadn't happened yet. And so when I— when that happened, I just thought, wow, I know demographically this is my ideal client and they just booked a meeting with me unilaterally. Wow. It almost felt like closing a big deal.

Well, you do a good job on this. This is something I want your opinion on. 'Cause I'm obviously a big, big believer. We live by the framework, if you give away the farm, you reap the harvest.

Love it.

And I believe expertise is built by giving away everything you know. How has that impacted your business? 'Cause you, if anybody goes and watches your video content, just any kind of content you post on LinkedIn, you're giving away everything. Why is that so important to you and your growth?

Well, you're getting this, This not natural empath, a little, a little emotional. Reciprocity is a biological principle of humans. If you give something to someone, they automatically feel like they should give something back to you. But what my dad practiced was something a little higher and a little different. I call it unconditional reciprocity. When you actually have that identity where you're going to give and give and give until it hurts, and then you're almost where you need to be, and then give a little more. It's amazing what comes back tenfold. So, you know, I've had— we have a producer that started 2 weeks ago saying, Guffey, I listened to you on a podcast and you talked about ideal client profile and how to do XYZ. Nobody's talking about that to my agency. Can I come work over there? I had no idea me giving value away about that would then bring somebody into our agency.

Right.

So this unconditional reciprocity is an identity. I've had a client that was going into HVAC business. Well, I wanted to help them and say, let me connect you with our top HVAC account and they can guide you and give you some consulting work. So give value, give value on the spot, be generous. It's amazing what happens and comes back to you tenfold. But I had a front row seat to it growing up. My dad gave and gave and gave without ever expecting anything in return. And that's how ultimately I was able to come to that conclusion that, wow, if you just give freely and you give value, it's amazing what will happen and what comes in return, even though that's not the point. It's the result.

Yeah. Yeah, man. I, when I think about attraction, I was just, you know, our training evolves over the, over the months we do it. I feel like it's evolving all the time because I keep uncovering like A new framework or this and that. And one thing I've discovered lately, and you're a living example of it, you know, you take a guy like you who sells commercial insurance to the real estate industry, right? And our mission is to help producers find their one-of-one sales message, which means you are the only one in your market that can deliver that. Because if I said, Guffy, you're a commercial advisor, does that make you unique?

No. Nope.

Guffy, you're a male commercial advisor. Does that make you unique? No.

Even less unique.

You're a commercial— you're, you're a commercial advisor in Phoenix. No. You're a commercial advisor in Phoenix who specializes in real estate. No. You're a commercial advisor in real estate out of Phoenix. And now we put your story into that. Now you're the only one.

And the most— the scarcest resource on the planet, Andy, is your perspective and point of view. And being one of one is a great way to put it. And I see you guys put it out there. And that's very valuable.

Because I believe when you find your one of one, which goes back to this whole attraction thing, you sell with more confidence and more conviction. And when you deliver a message only you can deliver with those 2 things, You're unstoppable. Amen. Let's wrap up, and then I do want, uh, I got some, some lightning round questions for you I'd love to, love to get before we wrap, and then we'll talk about where people can get their hands on, on the book. Is that cool?

Yeah, let's do it.

First, let's start. When does the book come out?

Um, the book launches September 1st, so I know we're, we're talking here a month or so out, but, uh, yeah, September 1st. Ebook is available August, August 20th, and excited to launch this September 1st and See where it takes us.

And this, this recording will go out the same week the book launches, which is awesome.

Great.

If somebody finishes the book, Guffey, and wants to immediately improve their sales conversations, they read this on a Sunday, what would be the first thing you'd tell 'em to change on Monday morning?

If they finish the book, they're gonna want to dive deeper, probably in their personal life, on how to guide people in making decisions, because it's hard to guide multimillion-dollar decisions if you're not capable yourself. of carrying those. But there is— I would say the book is about 70% art, 30% science. There's about 30% you can do the following day. Co-anchoring, detachment, the reinforce. The attraction chapter has, has the, you know, the raise the ceiling framework. There's, there's something in everybody's life that's listening to this that they need to remove what's in the way. There is friction in their mind that they need to remove what's in the way. And this gives you the the framework on how to do that for yourself, but also as you're guiding others and making their decision. So that's something they can do on day one, remove the friction in their life.

What's one belief about selling you hope producers abandon after reading the book?

I want people to stop thinking that closing is the result of persuading, convincing, and influencing, and that closing is the result of alignment. And value reaching its natural conclusion when the friction is removed.

I love that, man. Book is called Attached High: How Elite Advisors Remove Friction from High-Stakes Decisions. This recording will go out, I believe, September, uh, it's going out on the Tuesday. What day of the week is, uh, September 1st?

It's a Tuesday.

It goes out this, this episode will air the day it's airing today. The book is live today. Get your, uh, get your hands on a copy of it right away. Well, Guffey, it's been an honor to have you, man. Anytime I get a chance to talk to you, it's a, it's a fun, engaging, insightful conversation. But before we let you go, I love to— you are one of the elite, elite producers in the industry, and I love to get inside the mindset, habits, and rituals of those producers, uh, to let others know what, what they do behind the scenes. So are you okay if I ask you a few questions?

Yeah, of course.

All right, man, I'm a big believer in morning routines. In fact, I did spend a morning in your gym, in your home, and we did a workout together. You did.

You're a beast.

What is your typical— what, what does your typical morning routine look like?

I wake up and the first thing I do before my feet touch the floor is I say, I wonder what amazing things I'm gonna learn today, so I can get that curiosity going. And then the second is 3 things I'm grateful for to help keep me grounded. And then I pop up out of bed usually so fast that I get lightheaded, um, and go get my pre-workout going and rolling before the kids and, and the wife's awake. And I go in the garage gym and I, I start, start the workout, um, every day. I, I don't think I've missed a day in 3 years. So it's, uh—

So you're in the gym before the family wakes up?

Yep.

Love that. 60 minutes to work out. What's the go-to workout in the home gym?

Arms, and it's gonna look like I'm working out walking around. No, definitely something on the Peloton workout. I like to do one heavy lift and then some cardio. So 30 minutes lifting and then 30 minutes get the heart rate up.

So like a mix, almost like a mix of HYROX and Tabata.

Yeah, there you go. Perfect way.

Love that. Love that. What about this, man? You got an afternoon to yourself. No kids, no family, no workout. What are you doing?

I will be by some water. I love to go to the lake and surf. I love to fly fish. I love the ocean. So I would be definitely by some water. Or, you know, I love history. So if I'm by myself, I would love— I love to go to museums and learn lots of stuff that way. There's just not a lot in Arizona since our state's barely 100 years old. But those would be the 2 things you'd catch me doing.

Okay. So if you haven't seen video— Guffey's videos, of him wakesurfing while he's teaching. Those are impressive. What lake are you on?

I'm either on Lake Powell or Saguaro Lake, which Saguaro Lake's about 20 minutes from the house. So that's kind of the go-to spot.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, I love those videos. Go get, go check out Guffey's LinkedIn profile and you'll see 'em. Any books or podcasts you read lately, besides your own book? Any books or other podcasts you recommend?

I was gonna say this podcast and my book. I mean, is there, is there even anything else out there? Andy. No, I would say I do believe you become the 5 podcasts, books, and people you surround yourself with. I really like a lot of podcasts, probably too many, but I like stuff by Dan Sullivan, Joe Polish. I really like— I like Ed Mylett. He has— he has a good podcast and a lot of industry podcasts. I listen to the Max Revenue here. That's, you know, in the industry. I really like those guys. They do a good job. Yeah, those would be, those would be the podcasts that I, I listen to frequently.

First time I ever asked this, and, uh, so I'm gonna ask you, if you could have dinner with anybody dead or alive, who would it be?

I mean, I would love to have dinner with some of the founding fathers. I think that would be exceptional. If you're alive, I mean, Elon, I mean, I don't know who's more impressive than Elon Musk, um, from a business perspective at, at this juncture, but he would be a good one to have, have dinner with. Um, so yeah, it'd be, it'd be somebody in that History. And then, and then, yeah, probably Elon.

Yeah. He, he knows a thing or two about solving big problems. Yes, he really does. People wanna reach out one more time, grab the copy of the book, Attach High. What is going to be the easiest way? They're listening today. It is available today. What is the easiest way to get their hands on it?

Yeah, go to Amazon or Barnes Noble. Also, my LinkedIn profile has a landing page right to the book to order it. And yeah, hope it can put velocity behind my dad's legacy, take people from transactional to transformational, and then allow value to win. If you are more valuable than me, you should not— I should not beat you in sales. And so I want value to win. And this book helps and solves that problem when value loses and friction wins.

Attach High: How Elite Advisors Remove Friction from High-Stakes Decisions. Guffy, you're awesome, man.

Great to be here, Andy. We'll do it again.

Be good, everybody.