Why You Should Call the Competitor Who Just Stole Your Client

If I give it away, then, you know, how am I different? Well, you're different because you're you, and you're going to execute it different. Right. I think that if you're going to have a group that aspires and actually executes effectively on collaboration, you have to have that integrity piece.

Hey. Hey. Welcome back to the Accelerate your insurance sales podcast. I am excited and honored today. I am joined by Ruth Manka, executive director of intersure, the insurance peer excellence community, a diverse and cohesive international association within the insurance industry. Ruth, welcome to the show.

Oh, excited to be here, Andy. You know, we've noticed each other a couple of years, and every year just gets better. Right. And. Oh, yeah, I couldn't be more excited and honored to be with you as well.

Well, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell the audience right out of the gate, if you need a little spark, listen to the episode. This woman is full of energy. And you will. You'll feel that within a few minutes. Ruth, let's start here. Walk us through your career path in the insurance industry. How did you enter the industry and then what led you to become the executive director of Intersure?

Oh, Andy, I always say this is the most circuitous route you could ever take to anywhere. So I started out in the banking insurance industry at the ripe old age of 16. So our local bank manager was a friend of my doctor, believe it or not, he was the president of the bank, and he gave me a shot. So I started in banking really young, and I have been an insurance nerd ever since. So I was went down a very technical path. So the first 15 years of my journey were in product development, product management, working on private placements. So very heavy technical stuff, but also across the bandwidth of all insurance. So my first role, I worked with the mta. Yep. That's the New York Transit Authority. So you can imagine that's an ointment by fire Andy. Right. And then from there I went into a actuarial path. I'll say. Right. So I was heavy into leading the development of the products, marketing the products, running sales organizations. And then my path takes a really. Just as it does. Right. Odd route. My mother becomes terminally ill. So 2006, sadly, at a very young age, she was given six to nine months to live. So Pearl Harbor Day, which is just a coincidence. December 7th, I decided I would take a year off. And sadly, she lived only 60 days. So when she passed away in January, I took my first year off and then about three and a half years In Andy. I said, oh gosh, I'm getting a little bored. People said, are you? They said, they said, are you, are you sad you're not working? I go, oh no, I live in America. I'm not sad, I'm not working. But I also don't want to be broke. I'm pretty young, right. And so I went to a CE class and somebody said, hey, you know, we've got this great networking organization. This is pre internshire. And they said, we think you should join. And when I got there, it was a commission club and it was in the life and annuity space. Andy. And they actually couldn't afford me. And I came from a GE background, I was green belt certified. So I did an analysis on them and I said, you guys need to merge with another organization. And the first thing my friend said was, wait a minute, don't you need a job? And I said, of course I need a job. But you know what, they're going to figure it out sooner or later. So go to the meeting, we merge the organizations and the executive director is there. She said, what are you going to do after this? And I said, find another job. And she said, well, you know what, I know this group, Intersure and they're looking for an executive director. And I'll be honest, andy, that was 2014. And I thought, okay, you know what, I'm starting to get back into being excited about being an insurance nerd again. Haven't really worked in the commercial and executive benefit side. So the employee benefits, let me try that. And I said I'll do this for two or three years and it's my 11th year, so there's my very circuitous route. I always tell my sons and my nephews, don't ask auntie how to get a job. Work hard, you know, give more than you get back and it'll happen well.

And I know it was a personal tragedy in a way that, that forced you to kind of take some time off. I just looking forward, I can't see you taking time off. I just know your energy and your effort and I think it would be hard for you to completely break away from what you're doing. Let's talk about Intersure a little bit.

Sure.

You know, one thing I have had the fortunate opportunity to recognize in the last three or four years is when you look at organizations like Intershare, you know, you're serving a lot of the mid sized regional insurance players around the country and your mission emphasizes both collaboration and sharing. And that's something you don't always see in the insurance industry, I think you see a lot of people who are too afraid to share anything or collaborate because God forbid a competitor hear what they're doing. Why is that such a big part of the ethos of intersure, that collaboration and that sharing?

You know, that's my favorite question, as you probably could guess, Andy, As I said when I first got here and they had a model is altogether different, and I thought, I'm not really sure I can grasp what that means. Everybody's different, right? But really, as I dug in this growth mindset, this collaboration, and I'll be very honest, you know, when they tasked me to be the new executive director, they said we want to build a stronger, more cohesive organization. We don't want to be a good old people's club to keep that PC, right, Andy? But we want to be more ingrained, helping each other grow and have that growth mindset. So there was a culling, there was a contraction period where we had to really be okay with losing some members who didn't embrace that. To your point, Andy. Right. And if I give it away, then, you know, how am I different? Well, you're different because you're you and you're going to execute it different, right? So that transparency, integrity, that's a big one. I think that if you're going to have a group that aspires and actually executes effectively on collaboration, you have to have that integrity piece. So, so my new tagline, at the risk of being as I am, you know, a little corny is what makes us tick, right? And it's transparency, integrity, collaboration and kindness. And if you didn't have those things, you're going to self select out of inertia because the pressure will be too great.

And I would, I would have to be pressure from your member, your peer member.

Oh, absolutely. And I say that, you know, with, with a smile because it's that, it's that openness and that sharing and if it's, if you don't embrace that, if you're a lifestyle agency, not going to be a fit. Right. And you know, one of the things, and you may remember this is we're very diverse, right? So unlike other, what I'll call more traditional associations or networks, they're homogenous, right. Or they put their folks into homogenous groups. And I'm always torn, do I want to give away any secret sauce, Andy? But I'll say that ours is not. So we are 20%, you know, in what I'll call a Smaller revenue category, you know, the 5 to 15 million. Then we've got this secondary revenue and then 15 to 25 million, then 25 to 99 million and then we have some Uber 100 million plus. And you know, every once in a while people say, can you be too big to be an inner? Sure. And I say, you know, I remember a phrase, can you be too thin or too rich? No. Right. And that's it. Everybody learns because of that non homogenous type of relationships that we have.

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Exactly. Yep, absolutely. It's about participation. Everything we do is by the members, for the members. And you know, I think that that's the other difference is people say, well, you have to have a one size fits all or you know, what are you doing that fit all the members. And I know we've had this dialogue and that's not how we operate again, because we're not mandating how they interact with, we're creating the opportunities for them to interact well.

And I'd love to get your thoughts because in the industry, whether it's commercial or benefits, you see a lot of networks, associations where people are members of. I think you guys really preach community. Yes, and I'd love to get your thoughts on that because for the people who tune in Again, they're probably members of industry associations or networking groups or you name it. But community is a very different concept. What does that mean to you?

Oh gosh, you know. Again, my second favorite question, right? And it goes back to the beginning, right? What's your ethos? And so an association and a network and I truly value, we coexist very nicely. Has a different purpose, right? They're teaching you something, they're more speaking at you. Whereas what our community is doing is speaking to each other. Those shared experiences, those things that you can't get when you go to a training session. Maybe you'll have some sidebar conversations, but ours is there are experts that do that. Andy, I say that you're one of those, right? You're like to me, a SME in the market that's helping people get better and smarter at doing what they do. And then what are we going to do? And we have several members. Just a shout out to Andy that he's made some great impact on. So thank you. But in sincerity, now we come back and let's be honest, we talk about you, we say, okay, well what were the good and the bad? How can we refine it? How can we incorporate it? And I think that's the difference that you can't replicate, right? Because people will say that to me. And I said, I'll be honest. At first I thought, geez, is this sustainable? You know? And guess what? Our members are members in other organizations who I'm not here to promote. But they are and they're very well respected networks and they get a lot of technical training from those networks, if you will. Right. And other resources. But ours is that community spirit.

I love how you said that because I think, you know, I even look at our business and I'm probably guilty at times of just teaching people constantly they come to learn from us versus how do we foster a community where we host a space they can come collaborate with each other. And I think that's important for people to hear because again, I'll go back. We've had an opportunity to work with agencies of all size. And the ones. It's been refreshing and surprising at the same time. The bigger you are, I feel like the more open you are to collaboration and sharing. And then it's like for those listening in, if you own an agency, think about that. The bigger you are, the more open you probably are to collaboration and sharing. There's a reason you have scaled to the point you have and that has nothing. It doesn't have anything to do Just with your team. It's probably who you're surrounding yourself with within the industry.

I love that. I agree 100%. Right. But it is having that abundance mentality, that growth mindset, to know that the world is limitless. And I know that Simon Sinek and others have talked about this theory of an infinite game, but you have to. The best thing about the insurance industry is you get to pick the players that you're going to affiliate with. Right. And my thing is you show kindness to everybody, but you're only going to have those intimate relationships with a few.

You brought up Simon Sinek in that book. I love that you said that because again, when I look at the industry at large, I think a lot of people are trying to play the finite game. There's, there's a, there's a, there's an end line, there's a, there's a finish line. Specific black and white rules. Somebody wins, but somebody has to lose. When the whole point of the infinite game is just to keep the play the game going.

Exactly.

And I love that you brought that up.

Well, thanks. I, you know, I think that eternal perpetuation.

Yep.

And I know that we'll probably ultimately land right on, you know, what's the outlook for the independent agencies? And I think that one of the toughest parts of the independent agency is their own self belief. Do they believe that they can perpetuate? And I'm honored to work with people that recognize. Absolutely. And now more than ever, between technology, financial capabilities, financial partnerships that are investing in independent agencies because they recognize the capabilities. And that's in a minority basis, not majority. I foresee that there is a nice long Runway. You know, people in that mid tier want to have that trusted advisor, that collaborator that works with them next to them. Not necessarily just a big box.

Yeah, no, I, you know, we're going to go there because I want to get your thoughts on the, the M and A activity and if, if you're tuning in, Ruth is at the dog. This is real life. This is what I love about these conversations.

Real, real life.

The dog's outside, he's excited. We're all good. We just keep rolling with this.

Thanks.

Before we dive, I do want to ask you because you use a term that I really like. Coopetition.

Oh, yeah.

And since we've been talking about the collaboration and the sharing and what that means to open up to what you're doing and sharing it with other agencies. Define coopetition and how that has helped intersture thrive.

Sure. You know Coopetition again, to beat that horse is really about leaning into the fact that, you know, you're in the same markets. Right. We are, are all national players at this point. But guess what? If I lose a case to someone or I'm losing a customer, what's the opportunity that I have to learn from that? Right. I can debrief with my team, but I'll say they can go one step farther. They can pick up the phone and talk to the CEO. It's never about limiting people's free choices. We don't do that. That would be. Well, that would be inappropriate. Right. But it's that opportunity to learn from somebody, to learn from the customer and to get smarter and better. And so that's just one example. But coop petition really is knowing that we coexist. We may stumble across each other once in a while, but it's acting with class, with, with respect and with integrity.

Love that. Love that. Let's talk about M and A. We talked. You were talking about perpetuation. One thing I, I am impressed with with Intersure is you look at the agencies and the history. I mean, for a lot of them, we're talking, it goes back decades, maybe even a century. And their ability to stay independent through that entire time is. Is by today's standards, it's pretty impressive. When you look at the industry right now and all the M and A activity that's going on, Ruth. And it's not slowing down anytime soon. And quite frankly, I think for some it's just trying to play the game of who can become the biggest. I was working with an agency client yesterday and one of the things they're looking at is some acquisition opportunities in 26. But the difference is they're. They're looking it because they want to acquire, not because they have to, because they have shareholders telling them to. Right. What are your thoughts right now with all the consolidation going on in the insurance industry? Is it, is it concerning? Is it just a part of the way business goes? You know, as you look ahead and we'll talk about how you've been helping your members stay independent.

Sure.

What are some of the challenges or concerns or just where your head is at with all the M and A activity going on?

Yeah, I guess you hit on a couple thoughts. Right. So one is first. Absolutely. It's going to continue. Do I think it's natural? Yes. Do I think our industry was this sleeping giant of intellect and capacity and incredible customers? Absolutely. And now the rest of the world is saying, gosh, you know what we haven't invested here. Why haven't we? Are there people that will sell? There are. There's some of our largest agencies where we thought, gosh, you know what their credo, their ethos is so independent, they'll never. And guess what happened? They had to. Not because by design, the leadership wanted it because the leader was. Leaders were very committed, but because unfortunately, their structure wasn't sustainable at the size they were now. What. What did that give them? The opportunity to learn, to reflect, and in some cases, to recreate. So, Andy, what I'm super excited about is we have seen folks that sold, and as soon as that buyout was out, guess what they did? They started a new organization because they missed that entrepreneurial spirit. And so I think that natural kind of, you know, every iteration, they learned from it and then rebuild. And I love it. You know, shout out to our friends in California, SQL Insurance, because that's them. It's like the Phoenix. Right. But it's really saying, you know, there's this internal pressure where I maybe haven't built a strong enough perpetuation plan.

The.

We've come too big to where now we've got too many shareholders that have pressure they can place on some of the leadership. And, and I won't name those ones because they know who they are. And, and, you know, look at. Are they sad? I wouldn't say they're sad. Do they regret, Andy, that maybe they didn't have the opportunity that some of our now 25 to $100 million firms have? Guess what? That is the benefit of revisionist history, that they can now plan ahead and think about the perpetuation strategy actively.

Well, and I think you're right. I, you know, I've watched former bosses of mine, mentors who have sold. And in that experience, though it seemed really good at the beginning, especially financially.

Yeah.

Three years in, after that, earn out, you just look at their, the look on their face and it was not a good experience at all. Heck, I know. I know something to your point about going out and restarting a new agency. I know some agency owners that have sold and the experience was so bad, it's kept them in the industry because it's almost like they have a chip on their shoulder.

Yeah.

And, and you hate seeing that. But at the same time, it just tells you what, what that acquisition they thought was going to be the finish line wasn't because it didn't go the way they wanted it to. And I, I'd love to get your thoughts. You know, when you think about organic growth. Yep. I think personally my belief is one of the reason M M A activity is so rampant is nobody knows how to grow organically anymore. And as it becomes harder, M and A becomes the easier path to growth. When you look at what interesture is doing to really help support members to sustain, thrive and keep growing organically. Talk to me a little bit about. Yeah, what, what does that look like? Why are some of your agencies continuing to grow at a very good pace, but do it organically where they don't have to look to get purchased or go purchase other agencies?

Oh, gosh, I love this too. I think I say I love a lot, but I do because I'm so excited by the energy of our groups. Andy and what I would say is two things. One, technology is leveling the playing field now more and more. We're able to automate low level tasks so that they can spend more time nurturing clients, being in front of their clients. And I think that's something they're embracing being early adopters and being willing to test things that people are waiting for to trickle down. Well, that trickle down theory means, and I have a theory on that. Right, but poop rolls downhill. You don't want to wait for that. Right. So you want to be outside in the sunshine. All right, edit that part out. Andy. But, but seriously, it is that early adopter technology. It is having that community right, where you could say, hey, can we, you know, how do we pilot this together? Or how do we. Did you pilot this? You know, I always tell folks, we don't just share what's great because that's easy, right? That's just a braggart community and that would bore me to tears. But we share when we break our knees, we share when we fall down, and, and you know that song, and then we get back up again. And I think that that's what's key. It's, it's having that camaraderie, having the ability to, to be vulnerable. And vulnerable is not a word, you know, Brene Brow. Embrace that in a personal sense. But bringing that to a group of CEOs, senior leadership, team members, that takes years to cultivate. And then for others that come in to believe that it's really there and, you know, and one of the ways, and I think you touched on it earlier and if it's okay, you know, on recruiting, it's that you're going to self select out. We invite you to a meeting, we let you experience that, and then we say, look, we'd love for you to come if you're going to actively participate to do those things so well.

And then I was going to hold off on the question, but I'm going to, I'm going to ask now because you just brought that up with, with the members as you look to grow intersure, what are you looking for in the right agency? Who, what, what makes an agency a good fit for a membership like intrashire?

Just the things we said. Right. So it's, it's not necessarily, although that's a key part. Growth. Right. So we're looking, do you have a good growth track record? You know, are you demonstrating that is your mindset there? It's a cultural fit first. Right. So we are an independent, independent community, meaning everybody has full control over their day to day. But we're also cognizant of reality. Many if not most of our partners today have a minority interest that allows them that flexibility to do lift outs to build organically to your point, to hire new sales folks, to nurture new sales folks. So it really is that it's come kick the tires, let us test drive you. Let you test drive us. And then we know. Right? So when I say ideal customer, look at those four tranches of revenue. You can look very different. Do you have different technical capabilities? Are you in different geographies? Do you have different technology that you're embracing? So it's really looking holistically, not just can you cut a check because that's not our style. And again with no disrespect to for profit organizations and I don't know if I mentioned this Andy earlier, I don't believe so, but we're a nonprofit so it truly is agnostic in terms of we are not beholden to any shareholders, if you will, will be holden to our members by the members, for the members.

Love that. I love that. And that goes back to the whole community concept. I'm going to come back to technology and I'm going to ask the obvious question that Everybody's talking about AI. As you look ahead to 2026, what are some of the conversations your members are having about AI? I asked because I've talked to agencies as recently in the last couple of months that are telling me they're still evaluating their stance on AI, which I kind of laugh at because I'm like what do you mean you're evaluating your stance? It's here and it's going to run you over if you don't take a stance quickly. But what are some of the conversations your members are having about AI, how to leverage to use it, some of.

The dangers, oh, gosh, all over the place. So I would say back in, when I first joined 2015, I remember when people were getting, I'll say, bored with conversations around cyber. And I laughed and I thought, because the Internet's going away 10 years going into my 11th year later, and now the inner shirt, the inner sure. The market is saying, oh, my God, how do we cover these risks? Right? Every day there's more unique opportunities to manage. Right. To help risk manage out AI, but it's, it's never going away. So I would tell you this, Andy. They would not be a fit for industry. Right. So, so our group is all about, again, back to somewhat of the early adopters, but go slow to go fast. And ask my husband, he loves that phrase. But seriously, right, how do you build subcommittees, how do you build groups? But short answer is everybody knows that's here to stay. Right? And how do I adopt it? Intelligently, thoughtfully, and again, so it allows me to spend more time with my clients face to face. More and more I think humans are saying, yes, it's human in the loop, right? I need. I heard this great phrase and I quote it all the time. I will not be replaced by AI. I will be replaced by someone who leverages AI. So if I'm not adopting this, I might as well kiss myself goodbye because I can't keep up with the pace of everything that's happening, happening in the world if I'm not becoming more efficient. And I think that I'll be honest, as always, as you know me, Andy, I was not an early embracer, you know, chatgpt. I'm like, oh, dear God, I've already got Alexa finally in my house right now you want me to talk to a computer? And now I couldn't live without it. Claude and I are best friends, you know, and. But it is about how do I use it, keep that human in the loop that we always talk about, Andy. And gosh almighty, I have been able to spend so much more valuable time with my clients to triple that. Right. Quadruple that with our members.

Yeah. I was probably in a perspective of a perspective at one point that AI, yeah, it's going to replace people in this industry and I still think it will in a way. But I'm reading a book right now called the AI Driven Leader.

Oh, my God, I just got it.

Okay. So his, his whole concept is use it as people are using AI as a thought leader when it should be your thought partner. You're the thought leader and you just said something I, I've been having a, having a lot of conversations around with lately, which is AI is going to take away the 80% so you can focus on the 20 that drives the 80.

Exactly.

But I think a lot of our peers in the industry think that 20% is the stuff they do behind the scenes. But it's what you just said. Anything you do behind the scenes for a client and prospect should be done with AI now, preparing for a proposal, collecting information, data, whatever you need, analyzing loss so that you can spend the majority of your time in front of prospects and clients. That's where your value comes in.

Yep. Going broader and deeper. That's how I just define it. Right. You know, if you before could touch your client four times a year, now you can do it 10. Now you can thoughtfully have this AI companion and take advantage of recognizing when there's changes, when there's birthdays, when your anniversaries. You can personalize all those things that before took a lot more effort for you to do manually. So if you are not embracing that and you're not spending more time, well, then you are going to be behind. So.

Yeah. Well, and we even this workshop I was doing yesterday, that was part of the conversation is how much time a producer spends preparing for a proposal. Right. And what we shared with them was if you collect the right information in the discovery meeting, you get all the information you need, whether that's loss runs, plan information, plan designs, coverage, you name it, whatever, and you feed all of that to AI as a thought partner. The information you've gathered, the question, the fact finding you did, you should be able to produce a world class proposal in about 10 minutes.

Yes. Now, we don't want that to get out too much. But honestly though, right, I love that phrase. I'm going to borrow that one too. Right. R and D. Robyn, deploy. But thought partner, that's a key, right? Anytime we look at anything, whether it is a person, whether it is technology, as an adversary, we're already shutting down our quantum capabilities. And that drives me nuts. As I said, I go slow to go fast, but once I get there now, I can't stop. Right now I'm a speed demon and it is embracing that thought partnership. I still have to have human intervention. You know, some people probably don't. I don't know, Andy, you probably know this because you're steeped in it. But a lot of people don't understand these prompts that we give computers hallucinate just as much as the people next to us. And if you ask a computer because it is hell bent and designed to give you an answer, if you have no intellect behind that response, you will spit it back to somebody who's in an industry that they know really well and they're going to right away call bs. So you've got to have that thought partnership, leverage, what you can do it with. Judicious discernment. Right.

Yeah.

You know, and then go forward. Yeah.

Case in point, a acquaintance of mine posted a picture on Instagram the other day. He must have been doing a project with AI with chat. And it got to a point where he got so frustrated because I think it was hallucinating. He just prompted it. You have no effing clue what you're doing and, and chat. Right. I'm confused. I'm just giving you fake answers. It was, it was actually he posted that because it was. You're right. AI isn't. AI still does. Isn't going to be perfect.

Exactly.

And you have to bring the human touch to that. Well, let's, let's look ahead a little bit here. A couple, two part question, Ruth.

Sure.

One, as you look ahead into 2026 and, and what you guys are looking to do to support your members, what are some of the challenges that you may see that you see coming up, potentially coming up in, in 2026 as, as an industry at large for the insurance industry?

I think, you know, the obvious ones that we all see is a softening of the market, right. Softening of rate, hard market, you know, headwinds, lots of change. It's. I think it is. How do you maintain that abundance mentality against headwinds? Right. I think that the continued pressure of M and A creates, and I'm probably the eternal optimist, Andy. So I hope that you know, it. It's not that it's all sunshine, it's just that every time you have a change and you know, I watched this really great quote in Elon Musk and he said, think of it as an opportunity to pivot because the worst things that happen, the people that embrace that, it's an opportunity to rethink what they're doing, are the ones that are gonna continue on. So when you get into a fear mentality, and that's easy to get into, we've got a lot of things happening geopolitically. But if we step back and embrace and say, how can I do better in this? How can I be the light I want to see in the world? Right. We're going to innovate. So still lots of the same pressures we've had, I don't see much of that being alleviated or lifted, but more and more the opportunity for folks to be innovative, to be creative. One of the things we're doing in those headwinds is we're expanding to your point before. What's your ideal customer? Right. Who is your ideal agency? The ideal one is that it embraces our ethos, is, has a growth mindset and they don't have to be just an insurance broker. You know, we've got some alliances now internationally, we've got a Lloyd's broker that's part of our membership. What's the difference? We don't own that. Right. So it's not another cost center that we've got to, it's another profit center that we're helping build. See how different that mindset is. And I, and I think that that's where people say, do we have to build it? Do we buy it? We say, well wait, can we partner with it and create more value by partnering? So how is that now?

That was really good because I even think about, you know, as we grow complete game consulting that concept, build it, buy it or partner with it. I think it's one, the first reaction is, oh, let's just build it ourselves. Well, do we have the manpower? Do we have the time, the partner, let's go find somebody who we can partner to get there faster, even if they're not in our own organization. I think you do have a lot of people that are going to start shifting towards that because I, you know, use the word pivot. I think that's an advantage your members have today because they are still independent, which is with headwinds or evolving, you know, the landscape, AI and everything, that ability to pivot quickly is going to be a competitive advantage moving forward. And you look at a lot of the firms in this industry, the big public ones, they're not going to pivot very fast. And, and your members who have that ability to pivot a little bit faster, I think are going to gain a competitive advantage. And I also say this, I think the, the opportunity going into the next few years is as some of the organizations in the industry continue to play this game of who can acquire the fastest to become number one, those mid sized regional independent players, which consist of a lot of your members, I think are going to have a big, big opportunity for organic growth because I believe the buyers are going to continuously get frustrated with all this M and A activity.

Yeah, well, and to your point, right, are they really creating a more intimate experience where they know that client? You know, I would, I would bet lots of money, right. I mean, I talk to our different owners, SLT members, and you know, they're, they're partners in that with them. Right. They're looking at their risk mitigation. It's no longer, you know, a race of who's got the cheapest product. It is who has the most robust, who's got my back, who is a partner with me, not who is a transactor. And I think absolutely couldn't agree more. It is back to the 80, 20am I getting. Am I spending 80% of my time on the things that matter most? And I love it.

Yeah, I think that might be the theme going into 2026. I heard a keynote speaker on AI talk about this. He said in his keynote, the purpose of AI is to automate the mundane so you can focus on the meaningful.

I love that.

And I think that's a great tagline for agencies going into next year. Where can you automate the mundane so you can focus on the meaningful? And that meaningful should be spending quality time in front of your clients and prospects.

Yep.

Two more questions I've got for you and then we'll wrap. So if I've got an agency executive sales leader to tuning in right now, listening to this conversation, what would be your advice for them? Member inertia member or not, what would be your advice for them as they continue to look to grow in 2026? Retain, remain independent. What would be some advice you'd give them?

Ah, give me a ring. So first. Yeah, right. Send me over.

Ruth is a good saleswoman. I love that.

You know, but I think a lot of things, if we encapsulate all the conversation we've had to this point, right, Andy, it is have that growth mindset, have an abundance mindset. Surround yourself with people that have a can do attitude, Minimize your time with people that have a fear mentality, Minimize your time. We all know the story of Netflix, right? We don't want to go there, right? We don't want to be Blockbuster. We want to be Netflix. And. And so it's that. It's, it's be curious. You know, I think that's one of the other things, right? We get into a rut where we know what we know and we think we know it all. But it's be curious, keep that curiosity, keep that mindset. That overall. And I truly believe this, if I couldn't, I wouldn't be here today. It is in my heart. I know the reverse 8020 rule, right? Which is 20% of the world are shit and they're not going to change. But 80% of the world want to grow with you. They want strong leaders. They want people that are passionate, that have a vision and that want to work together. Find those people.

Yeah. What if somebody is tuning in right now and is saying, huh, I am interested. Learn more about this organization called Intershare. What are. What are the best ways to get in touch with you?

Oh, gosh. You know what? Ruthrsure.com always drop me a note. Call me 804-819. Should I give my phone number?

Who's gonna call it?

Listen, you know, at the end of the day, that's why God created voicemail, too. So, you know. No, but seriously, reach out to me directly. Hit me up on LinkedIn. Absolutely. And he's still training me on how to leverage that best I can. But absolutely. And let's test drive. Let's have a conversation.

So we're gonna wrap here. This is the part I never tell my guests. We're gonna have some fun with this. We're gonna get to know Ruth a little bit. You ready? Okay. We're gonna do a little rapid fire as we wrap the show. It's been a great conversation, Ruth, so thank you. So these are easy questions. Nothing that's gonna set you up for failure. I trust. Trust me on that. Okay. So, Ruth, I am a big believer in rituals, habits, discipline. What does your morning routine look like?

Oh, gosh, you know, I love this. So first thing I wake up, I have a 216 ounce of.2 glasses of lemon water with a little bit of mineral salt. Kind of get that brain hydrated. And again, another shout out to another member. I was at a dinner and he told me to do this. So I adopted it about 11 years ago. Then I pray. So I do. I have a meditation prayer ritual. We actually, about two years ago, bought a blue light blue and red, but a light therapy bed. Andy, at first I was like, what the heck? Everybody thinks I have a tanning bed. You can see from my very white disposition. I do not have a tanning bed. But I go in there and I have 20 minutes of alone time every morning. And I'll tell you what, no matter how what's going on, right? People always say to me, well, often say to me, ruth, are you always this happy? I go, oh, for. For Pete's sake. Sometimes I say other things. Andy, bag. Oh, God. You know What? Lots of stuff. Right. Personally happens to each of us. And I think it's having that time that grounds me, and knowing that I'm going to keep that space when I'm away, I will be late to something. If I have. I will not give up that 15 to 20 minutes of meditation, prayer time, and then. And then I kick it off. Then I have my greens. So now I'm addicted to you. One. I. I got to ask you about that because you're one of the health.

I actually, I don't take it, but I have given. Given it consideration for sure.

I've been doing that for a year. Another referral from our folks at Suber in Pennsylvania. The CEO there was taking it one day, and I go, what is that? Here I was taking this, you know, handful of vitamins. I just made it up. It was like a mobile cocktail. But so he said, you got to try this. And then you get into the day. Then I have a cup of coffee and I launch. And I only have one a day, so don't be afraid. Nobody wants this on.

I was going to say, you're probably one of those folks who has this energy naturally and doesn't need the caffeine.

No. I recognize in myself, and I know this is going to be hard to believe, but I'm from the northeast, so people have said to me, you know, you talk a little fast. I go, do I sometimes think I'm boring myself? I go, I got to talk a little faster. Keep this going. I've never had anybody say that to me. Andy, though.

Yeah. Well, let's go into routine. So exercise. If you had an hour to go work out right now. Yeah. What would be your go to workout?

Oh, gosh, you know, I have to incorporate things that I love. So first, I finally succumbed also to technology. I get between 7 and 10,000 steps a day.

Perfect.

And people say, well, how do you do that? It's everything, you know, I don't. Somebody says, well, throw that over. Throw that over the stairs. Nope, I'll walk down the stairs, walk up the stairs. Right. But if I had an hour, I would go outside. So for me, it's about being outdoors, Walking, hiking, you know, I know one of the things I'm embracing, or trying to, is strength. I haven't done strength training in over seven years. BC before COVID But yeah, five an hour. I'm going outside.

I was gonna say, maybe this answers the next one. If you had an afternoon to yourself.

Ah.

Not to exercise, but what would be. What would Ruth be Doing if she had an afternoon to herself, gosh, you.

Know, I just did that yesterday. So this is timely. So, you know, I took about 3, 4 hours. The first thing I do is I always arrive a half hour before my friends. So it's going to be something with friends. So I know this is also going to be a shock, but I'm primarily an extrovert. And so I know Andy. I know. Go figure, right? I gotta do a disc and validate that. But, you know, I want to be with people. I want to see people. So if my friends are working and I have like two or three or even four hours where I'm like, you know what I need to decompress, I will do the opposite of most. I'll go where it's noisy. I'll go sit at a Starbucks. I'll start talking to people at the Starbucks. Yeah, I'm at the mall. And, you know, I love to talk to. I love to talk to all different kinds of people. And, you know, somebody said that to me once. I was at one of our venues, events, and they said, how do you know that woman? It was the woman who was running the bar area. I said, oh, I've been seeing her for three days. She came up and gave me a hug. They said, like, do you know from before? I said, yeah, we're like old friends. They said, what do you mean? I go. I met her Monday, you know, but. But it's those personal connections.

Yeah.

And it's. It's because it's genuine. Like, and my mother, I'm very blessed. You know, as I mentioned early on, she. She died at a very young age, but she taught me well. And my mother never met a stranger, and I feel honored to honor her memory by never doing that all.

See, I actually also love to go into loud places or like a coffee shop, but I do the opposite. I love to people watch. Okay, but then the problem is. The problem is my fiance AJ will be like, dude, your gawker face is ridiculous. Like, stop watching. It looks. It looks awkward.

I'm not gonna say I never knew that that's my vacation. If the last question was, where would you go on vacation? That's when I go to the beach and then I completely adopt yourself.

Yeah, I agree that. That isn't my last question. My next question is actually, any good books or podcasts you're reading or listening to right now?

Oh, gosh, you know. Yes. So, Juan, the AI driven leader that we just touched on, my son and I are doing our own mini book Club, which is kind of fun. He's an AI recruiter, tech recruiter podcast. I honestly love Mel Robbins. You know, that's what I've been doing recently. And then for fun, I do my husband and I, the murder podcast. Like, when I'm driving in the car. Yeah, I understand.

What is with women who love these crime murder podcasts?

Ass. I'm not that person. I'm not gonna lie. So I don't love them, Andy. But I will tell you, my husband really enjoys it, and I like anything. I always tell them, you better listen to it first, though, because it better have a happy ending. They better have got him in the end. So. So I have a girlfriend. Well, she's more like my sister Marian, and one of the most incredible women I've ever met in my life. And she is addicted and she lives out in the woods. I go, if I listen to this stuff. You. Yeah. Andy. No way. I wouldn't sleep for three weeks.

Not a chance.

No way.

I'd be locking my doors. Yeah. No.

So I. I love Marvel movies. That's my other thing. So I know you didn't ask about movies, but I have two boys. I only had boys, you know, growing up. And so I. The good guys have to win. And that is probably one of my mantras. The good guys come ahead. It may. It may not be obvious in the moment, but the good guys always win.

All right, final question, Ruth. If somebody's considering it, why should they join in? Sure.

Oh, gosh. The encapsulation of everything we've talked about. Right. Are you looking for a place where you can just pull down your hair, take off Andy's hat, let it all hang out? Right. And know it's a safe space? Right. Are you looking to grow? Are you willing to be challenged beyond what you're doing today? Are you open to other. Other people's ideas as opposed to thinking you're the smartest person in the room? If you are, you should join. Beep. But. But seriously. So. Yeah. So if you are in a growth mindset, if you're looking for other folks in a growth mindset, and you want that diversity of thought across a very diverse, both technical, demographic, group of individuals and agencies, then, yeah, then give me a ring.

Awesome. Well, Ruth, it's been an honor. This was a great conversation. I'm sure I wouldn't be shocked if you get an email or a call here from. From an agency owner somewhere that's interested in learning more about Intersture. And if you're tuned in, if you tuned in today. Thank you for doing so. But as I told you, this woman's full of a lot of positive energy and and if you are looking for a community not only to collaborate with, to cooperate or co opa coopetition create competition with, but to hold you accountable as well so you can scale your agency, give interure a good look.

Thanks Andy. Thanks so much. Happy holidays. It's really always great to see you.

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