3 Ways To Obtain Referrals | 7 Figure Annuity Sales Podcast | Ep. 213

On this week's episode, we're going to talk about three ways to obtain referrals.

Hey, everyone, this is Chad Owen. I am the host with the most. Caleb's the most right now.

And so I upgraded from Robin and Boy Wonder and Wonder Bread, and maybe.

Maybe you just became a little cooler with your tattoo, so. We already talked about that. We don't need to hit it.

I got, like, five more lined up, so.

Yeah, you're not doing the one on your butt cheek. You know, Levi's patch does not count.

Wrangler patch.

Wrangler. Okay.

I almost got it this weekend.

No, you didn't. Do not do it. Oh, my gosh. Okay. And you know what's funny is we have a huge team of people that work with us in spite of you.

In spite. And so that means they really love the rest of the team and they really love the job.

That's true. They probably love Cameron and me and Josh and you maybe.

No, it's not me that keeps them.

Maybe you're there just for pure entertainment.

Probably.

We want to. Better not, dude. I'm telling you.

Anyway, so.

Yes. So three ways to obtain referrals. I think this is. There's a lot of agents out there I talk to that. They're like, yeah, I write most of my business from referrals. And they've pretty well established a system.

For you, which is crazy to me. When I. When I hear people, there's two things I think of. When people get all their business from referrals, number one, you could be doing more, because if you would actually buy some good quality leads, you get more good quality clients, and you'd be able to get referrals from them. Because if somebody who does 100% of their business or even 80% of their business from referrals, that means they're pretty darn good at referrals. And what would happen if you spend a little bit more to get good quality leads? I mean, those. Those are the guys, honestly, that I see going from 5 million to 10 million, 10 million to 15.

And it's. And it's almost overnight because it's a matter of flipping the switch on the lead flow.

Because they're. They're not only getting deals, they're getting people that trust them. That's how they get the referrals.

Right.

And so if you get more quality leads, then you just. You. You. You can double your business.

Totally.

Yeah.

So that's a good encouragement for those of you that are listening that write primarily off of referrals. But I think it's gonna. It's going to become a very, very necessary piece, I think, for most agents because the lead market is in a pretty challenging spot from what I've seen.

Yeah, it is.

Now you've gotten. You've got your companies and you've got your territories and you've had them for years. And so for somebody that has the systems that you built doing fine, but for most agents that are wanting to get in, they're hard get into those areas.

Yeah. Waiting list.

Yeah. And you've got Medicare agents and life insurance agents that are getting the taste for annuities and they are coming over.

And mark my words, we're going to start seeing mortgage brokers and Realtors because anytime the market starts to fall in the housing market, more of them want to come over and start writing annuities. It happens every single time.

Yeah.

So we'll see that.

We'll see that. And so what you've got is not necessarily a proportionate increase of client opportunities to the increase of agents.

True.

That are trying to sell it saturated.

And I. This is an old statistic, but it was something like how many Realtors are there in the United States? And it was like 1.8 million or something. And how many homes were available to be for sale? 1.2 million. I mean, there are way more Realtors than there were actual homes to be sold.

I think 25% of my graduating class in high school is a Realtor now.

It's unreal. And they're about to feel the hammer. I'm telling you, it's 2007, 2009. So many realtors just didn't make it. And a lot of them started working in restaurants.

I'm no economist, but I've heard some talking about the conditions bringing back memories of 2000-2003, where you've got multiple years of regression there.

And I, and I think it's actually going to be worse because we have things like crazy inflation. We have, you know, political party that neither of them like each other to the extreme. We have a lot of uncertainty in the, in the global area arena right now. So, yeah, there's a lot going on right there is.

So obtaining referrals. Well, I think, number one. And tell me what your thoughts are on this. But, but you first off have to make sure that you're operating with excellence with the existing client, the current client.

Your focal point is always on who are you in front of right now. Yeah.

And I think what happens a lot of times is you can get down that road of starting to think about referral and referral business and hopefully it impacts the current opportunity or the current client for the better. But that's shifting where your mindset's at.

With, well, your number one priority is helping the client that's in front of you. And if you do that job referrals are a lot easier. So just make sure you're doing great fact finding, great solution. So you find the problem, then you find the solution and then picking a great product. I actually just had a client reach out to me again today and I've already written probably 4 million with this guy and he's asking me again for help with another deal. And, and he goes, you know, I just keep using you over and over and it's because every single time I help you, I'm always finding the best product for you. And he goes, that's true. That's why I keep using you. So, you know, you get these calls out of the blue and you know, now I'm helping, I've helped his kids and so three kids. So it's just been a non stop process. But it's because I helped him in the first place and the first deal I had with him and his wife was not a big deal, but it's probably 250,000 total between the two of them.

And now it's over 4 million.

Over 4 million.

Wow. Well, and I wrote down in my notes, I said, sometimes just doing this will get people to make referrals without you even asking. And that's where you talk about what, 10% or so of your annual production coming from? Referrals. Yeah, but you're not asking for them.

I don't. And that's. And I have a lot of agents. Why don't you ask? Well, my personal belief is, number one, I have tons of leads, but number two, if I'm doing my job, they're going to refer someone to me without me asking. Now, is it wrong to ask for referrals? Definitely not. I mean, if you, as long as you don't do. I hate it when people do this. They slide over a piece of paper. Well, give me the name of five people who could be bettered by my services. I don't like that approach. But if you say, hey, you know what, if you feel I did a good job for you and everything's great, then of course, you know, be sure.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's funny you say that because the second one that I wrote down was ask directly. And I actually came up with three different kind of scenarios by which you could talk to somebody about this. And the first one being like getting a confirmation statement first, like you talked about. And I was looking and thinking about the people that I felt like would be best, like the type of client that would be best for this type of approach. And I thought it would be the outgoing, the friendly types, where they're inclined probably to give you a yes. There's a lot of people that are inclined to give you a no. And, but if you can find those people that just on their personality, they're outgoing, they're real friendly, they're real agreeable types, if they're more inclined to give you a yes, then you can ask them, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, how pleased are you with what I've done? Or something to that effect. What you wouldn't do one to ten.

I would never.

What would you say?

I would just say, hey, you know what, if I'm doing my job job and you think somebody else can use my services, just feel free to give them my number.

Oh, you don't even ask for the, for the contact of the person?

No, you wouldn't? No, I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't. And now there's people that do that and they do well at it. But just me personally, I would not ask.

Sure.

Like, I just had a guy tell me, hey, have any of my friends reach out to you? And I said, no. And I said, I did say, because I have a relationship with this person. I said, hey, if you want to give me their number and stuff, you know, know I'll call them.

Right.

But if not, you know, I don't, I don't want to be a pain and I don't want to be overbearing to them, and it just doesn't usually work that way for me.

So you wouldn't ask somebody basically how I do do, are you pleased with what I've done? You're not looking for any kind of confirmation statement in that?

No, because what's the confirmation statement? That I did a good job.

If they use me.

That's true.

I mean, if they use me and they feel I did more and I hear comments like, hey, you know, I've met with eight other agents and I chose you. Does that tell you if I did a good job or not?

Yeah.

So I don't need to ask that.

Sure, that's true.

And. And if, if I did a good job, they're going to allow me to help them.

Yeah.

That's just How I look, I don't need.

So your assumption already or you're. I guess it's not even really an assumption. It's just what you've gathered because of the fact that they did business was that you did do a good job. I you trying to get a confirmation.

Statement for doing this for 18 years. I'm confident I'm doing the best and I'm confident that the chances of them running against another agent that could do better for them, probably not. Yeah. You know, it's because I've done this so many years and even if, even when I was brand new, I mean I still did comparison check to make sure I had the best. That's actually why I started my own company is because the organization I was working with at the time they product push like crazy and I found out through my own research, wow, this other company out there has a non med or excuse me, a med product that far surpasses the non med product. Well, why don't you do that? Yeah, you know what, non med products are quicker issue. We don't have to deal with all the underwriting, we don't have to deal with blood tests. All that I said, yeah, but the rates are half. Well, yeah, we don't do that. And so through my own research I found out no, I can do better. Now if you're table up to table four and you can get standard rating and you know it's cheaper than it would be in an underwritten product, great. But if you have someone who's real healthy, why are you doing a non med product? For your convenience.

Yeah.

So because I researched, found their other products I knew and then there are so many people at the time in mortgage protection do non med products. I could be everybody.

Yeah.

And so anytime someone who is getting a mortgage protection lead, they would always do non med products. So if I did a fully underwritten, it was always cheaper.

Yeah.

Yeah. Did it take more time, energy and effort on my part? Yes. Did it take more energy and effort on the client's part? Yes. Did it save them thousands of dollars in premium?

Yes. And get them better? Yeah.

And yes. So yeah. So by me doing that they go, well agent A, B and C, they didn't give me good rates. You gave me the best rate and the best product. So who am I going to refer to? My friends.

That's true. That's really true. So. Well, and I'll tell you this, I like the idea of the, you know, if you feel I did a good job for you, feel free, pass my information onto some, you know, whoever you.

Think, whatever, and even hand them a couple cards, which I don't even do that. But.

But I like it because it has, like, zero desperation to it.

Well, that's other things. So when you are treating your clients as a lead source. Yeah. There is a desperation side.

Right.

So if you start to get where you. You're running low on leads. Come on. Don't you know one person that could help? If you have to go to that stage, which I've heard agents do. That's desperate.

It is. And it comes across that way. And now the client's starting to think. Because I'm assuming the deal's already gone through at this point.

Yeah.

And now the client's starting to think that you were desperate for their business as well. And how does that desperation impact what you've actually done for them?

Well, see, that's why. Look, you know, you've heard of agents doing door knocking, right? I mean, that to me, there's. So there's. There's some multiple problems with that that could be there. Number one, if my sign out there says no soliciting and you knock on my door, you've already lost my business.

Yeah. Just no respect.

Number two, if you're that free that you can go knock around doors, then you're probably not that busy of an agent. Number three, you're probably not experienced. But here's the underlying side of that. Dang. You want to put some. You really want to make this work. You're a go getter. You're. You're. I mean, it is just astounding to me that people will get up leads that way. And to me, as an experienced person, I'm going. You have more zeal and energy and desire than I have ever had in that area because I have never knocked doors.

Right.

So there's always that fine line. So how do you get in front of that client when you're door knocking and present yourself as someone who's an expert that really wants what's best for the client and you're a busy person? That's a fine line. It's the same thing when you're asking for referrals. How do you know, like, if somebody says, hey, you know, what do you want extra client? Sure. I mean, I'm already slammed, but I could squeeze some in some other people. And when I'm saying that, you know, from my schedule, I am literally squeezing in people.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sitting there trying to figure out, even now I only have four Appointments this week, but they're some distances away. And so I really only have one day that is empty, and then I have a couple other spots I can fill. So even if my calls went great today, I could probably pick up six more people.

Right.

Which still puts me at 10 for three days. And that's a lot.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

Well, I like that a lot. The last one that I came up with, and I'm curious about your. Your thoughts on this, was basically like a feedback form. So it's almost like a. It's almost like you're literally. You're just asking it, like, what. Like, what did you feel like? And I don't know, maybe this is subjecting the agent and yourself to too much client criticism or whatever, but how.

Many industries do you ever see send out a feedback form?

Well, how good is service in very many industries?

Well, and that's fair. That's a fair. That's a fair question. But the other thing I look at, too, is how many of those surveys do people actually fill out?

It's.

Yeah, I just got one today. And I'm like, even it's an organization I really, really like.

Sure.

And I almost deleted it, but I'm like, you know, I really like this group. So, yes, I'm going to give them some feedback. But it's so rare because it takes.

Time out of your schedule. It takes time out of your day.

When you tell me you're giving me a $10 gift card to fill out a survey, I'm just like, so.

Right.

Yeah.

And you're not doing that on the assumption here is that as an agent, you're not giving your client a gift card for the survey either.

No. And I know I did a good job if they allowed me to help them.

Right.

That's really my survey, my card. And I'm very open. You know, people will tell me, they'll. They'll say things like, I've had someone go, hey, you know, I tried to reach out to you, and you didn't get back to me right away. That is so rare. Like, if somebody says that, I'm going, no, I have your voicemail right here. I have not deleted it. That means you have not called me back yet.

Right.

That means I called you, but you have not called me back yet. So I can just generally tell by the way my clients are interacting if I'm doing my job or not.

And then from there, you've got basically two paths that you can take. One is you just leave it be, which is Typically, what you do, you don't. You don't. You don't ask, I don't. Or you could.

And I'm not saying that's wrong.

Well, sure.

It's just not saying that's wrong. Because there are agents who do very well. It's just. It goes back to. Thing I'm talking about is my number one thing that says I did a good job is if they allowed me to help them. I don't need an attaboy. I don't need a card. I don't need. How could I serve better? Because that also could be an implication of. If you say, how could I serve better? You would think, oh, I missed something right now. I'm not perfect by any means. Sure. And I do like when it comes to retirement. I honestly can't think of a time I've made a mistake. But I've also been doing this a long time. When I first got started in this business, I would say, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know the answer that. But I know someone who does know the answer to that. But I never faked an answer.

Right.

You know, if I didn't know it, I just flat out tell them, I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that. Let me get back to you on that. Now, if you have to do that all the time, that's not good, too. I mean, if you're doing that with five different questions somebody's asking you, then.

You'Re in the same appointment.

Yeah.

So that's good, though.

And so to be clear, I am all for referrals.

Sure. Just do it the right way.

How you ask.

And start with excellence with them, the first client. And then if you're gonna ask for referrals, don't make it sound desperate.

That's a very. To put it, they are your number one priority first, not the people you want to supposedly try and help. If they refer someone, I want them referring me someone because they know I did a good job.

Right.

Yep.

That's good.

Good job. I like it like the topic. See, a lot of times he comes up with these topics, I don't even know what we're talking about. Actually, almost every time I don't even know what we're talking about till you say, this is what we're talking about. It's true. So very good. I like that. Okay, you have a great day. And of course, happy selling.