Switching From Face To Face to Virtual | 7 Figure Annuity Sales Podcast | Ep. 303

All right, welcome back to this week's episode of Seven Figure Annuity Sales. It's Caleb north and my goodness, I have got Chad Owen today.

Finally, finally, finally.

Yeah.

The myth, not the legend. It was the myth for a long time.

I'm telling you, man, life hits you and all of a sudden, you know, you just go, oh, man, we need to record some more of these. And it just. Oh, it's insane. Between kidney stones and get my heart test and, you know, little trips here and there. Yeah, yeah. It's a little different.

Well, hey, it shouldn't be so hard because you telling you, you switched over from face to face to virtual, at least for part of your production, about 50. So these. These virtual recordings we're doing here ought to be like clockwork for you now.

It is. It is getting a lot easier, and it amazes me how many people are familiar with virtual. I mean, you still have people that are not like. You still definitely have people. I don't use zoom. I don't use any sort of. You know, even. Even on FaceTime, they won't do anything like that. Which I. I mean, FaceTime, that's really difficult to do when you're trying to present or share a screen. I. I don't know if I could do that. Sure. I'm sure there's people out there that will. And I mean, we just got to get to that stage where we have the holograms right there. Yeah, just get the holograms. And I'm. I'm in their. Their area because, you know, it's going to happen. You know, it's guaranteed gonna happen.

Yeah, it's. It. I'm sure it will. It'll probably be something similarly related to the virtual reality stuff where, you know, there's. There'll be holograms, I'm sure. I have no doubt.

Meet me in the meta room.

Yeah.

So crazy.

But you. Did you transit? I mean, not fully. You're still running some face to face appointments there locally, but. But at least, what, half of your production has gone to virtual.

I do want to. I do want to share something, though. This is for people who like to watch us on YouTube. And if you're not, you're going to miss out about what I'm going to show you. Part of the time, of course, is rewarding myself, as you guys know, or some of you know, I had a German shepherd and it passed away in December of last year. Real crazy. Just 9 years old. Didn't have a lot. I wasn't that old and had A ruptured split or a tumor on the spleen that ruptured and unfortunately did not make it through it. But I got a new addition, so just a second.

Yeah, y' all should. Y' all should go check.

Like I said, this is annuity, and he's. No.

And don't you want one?

You can just start doing that on your appointment.

You know what, it's funny, that was never in the lineup for the possible names for this dog. You know, annuity, come here, Annuity, come here. They'd be going, annuity, Annuity. What? We don't do annuities. So it's like. But this is Barrett. Barrett Diesel. Owen actually is Barrett Diesel Von something. Von Bon, you know, because he has. He actually has a full German name. His grandfather was a world champ. Two time world champ, and his dad was a world champ as well. So, yeah, this is a working dog right here. But he's just kind of chilling. But, yeah, so that's another thing I did. Okay, now let's get back into the virtual thing.

I think Chad might have transitioned to the virtual world so he can spend more time with Barrett.

Oh, man. You know what Barrett means.

Warlike. Warlike and bold. And what was that?

Does Chad mean that too?

Yeah. Owen means young warrior and Chad means warlike. Yeah. And Christopher means Christ. Like, still working on that one.

The other ones were like, down. Christ took work Christ.

Like, I'm. I'm really working on that one. So. Okay. But yeah, virtual's been interesting because, you know, a lot of people, they're starting to like that, Right. And then it also allows me to go in other states. So by being in. By being in Colorado, but still having an office in Texas, I'm actually going to start expanding into Texas as well and doing virtual there. Obviously, the more we can spread out, the better. I still, like I said the face to face I really like because I'm meeting people. I mean, I'm looking right over to my. Right here, and I'll show this, too.

Literally. I'm at this client's house, and he is a rock hound of rock hounds. I mean, I've never seen someone with this much. And he goes, here, you can have this. I'm like, what is that? It's super heavy. It's an actual meteor. He gave me a meteor and he goes, oh, I got a whole box, some of them over here. And I was just. That's something you couldn't get on a virtual appointment.

Right?

You know, seeing some of the hobbies people do, some of the ways they live, you know, getting to know people, really know them. Sure. It is easier, obviously, and when you're face to face, but.

For where I want to go and what I want to do, probably next year, probably around June, we're going to buy an RV and I might start doing some like road trips where I'm going to meet some agents along the way.

Right.

And you know, number one, it makes RV a write off, but number two, it's actually getting to know people well. The only way to truly do that and still be able to make a living would be able to do virtual appointments. And so I see it expanding in that area as well. I know some guys right now. What? Jesse. Jesse has a condo in the panhandle of Florida. And often, you know, he's just still two to three days a week. If he takes a week, two to three days a week at least he's actually still working right on his beach facing condo. Looking at the ocean, I'm. So it allows for a lot more flexibility, I think.

Sure. So was that the primary reason that you transitioned? Just increased flexibility? Like what was. Because for a while the whole, I mean, the conversation was a face to face is, is king. And it may still be.

I was adamant, wasn't it?

Oh, you were.

I was like, I was like, no, this is, this is, I'm never going to do virtual. It's still not as easy. So what I mean by that is I can't imagine it's harder to get the really, really big deals. Okay. I think the biggest deal I've had virtual right now has probably been 800,000. Okay. Getting, getting multiple millions. I don't know. I mean, I would love, I would love for people to comment and tell me, were they able to get millions from virtual appointments? Sure. I mean, it's really hard to. My son, I'm telling him goodbye. He's actually heading to Switzerland for two weeks to see his buddies. And I'm like, I'm very envious right now. So that's gonna be an awesome trip.

Didn't he just get back from Alaska too? Like, what in the world?

Yeah, well, basically Leilani's cousin, his girlfriend backed out, so he's like, hey, if you want, you want to share the room, you know, didn't cost him anything other than the airfare. Yeah. And I take it, man, go run with it. He's actually traveling. Yeah, he's traveling more than me this year. And as I, as I said, you know, I probably won't be traveling anything major till July. Or so of next year.

Right.

It's just probably not going to happen. But you know. Yeah, that's part of it, I would say is, is.

Getting to.

Have more flexibility.

Maybe even more territory. Sure. You know, this year it has. And that's why I'm still blown away. I'm ahead of last year volume wise.

Right on.

Fewer leads last year.

Inbound.

Yeah. And I think last year, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I only did like 1.7 million in August and September of last year combined.

I can tell you.

I know you got that right in front. Yeah. Because if that's the case and I do a really good August and a really good September, I'm going to be way ahead of last year. And to have that happen in a year with moving and challenges and high interest rates and the market keep going up, I am just. That's super excited that, to have that. Yeah.

And we've got some of, I mean it's one of those things that the product quality of the different, you know, products we offer, it kind of ebbs and flows. Right. But we are in a, in a position right now where the product quality is about as good as they've been in decades. Right. I mean you, you've obviously been doing it for.

I would say there was, I've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean it's, it's. And, and the products aren't necessarily.

You can't be reliant upon the product to sell itself. You have to be a good agent. You have to ask the right questions. You have to make the, the appropriate solution to the problem and make a good case for it. But the products are definitely helping agents with the production. It's certainly not hurting. We're not fighting an uphill battle from a product standpoint, which is good.

Yeah. I would say the products, there's a, there's a time where one of the companies had a 12% bonus and an 8% compounded roll up rate for 20 years. And then there's another one where the 4% roll up rate was going on for 20 years. It was a stacked option. So those were phenomenal products. Like, I would love to have those back too. But I would definitely say this is the golden age for really good annuity products. I do think even if interest rates drop a little bit, I still think from a creative standpoint, I think they're going to get better. I really do. I see that as just how it's going to work. I see.

The fixed indexed annuity arena adapting to not only the environment or the economic environment, but we even look at.

Doing something virtually. It used to be where I had to have a physical signature to deliver the policy. I had to deliver the policy face to face. I had to witness the driver's license face to face and wet signatures. And nowadays I just went through another.

Very challenging situation with a medallion signature. This. I'm not going to mention the name of the group, but, you know, it's has to do with the city, kind of Fargo, North Dakota. But, you know, the name of the company has kind of been that. And they just were adamant. We want medallion signature. We want Medallion Signature. I said, basically, I said, you got to be kidding me. I said, you're one of the only institutions that still requires the medallion signature. So the client actually called the 800 number and they waived it, and they actually told the broker, move the money. And so that never would have happened before COVID ever. But Covid's allowed. I mean, Firelight, we've got Firelight where we have every. Every product. Every. Every company, every product. And I use Firelight all the time, believe it or not. I'm probably 80% E apps now.

Yeah.

Now, of course, you can see behind me. I still print them out.

Right.

That's where I take notes. My next step. Yeah, it is. My next step is I'll actually start to do a Google Drive folder and I'll have my actual physical applications pending and issued. Sure. And that's probably going to be something I'm going to launch at the beginning of 2025. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I found your numbers, and you're absolutely right. You did about 1.2. A hair under 1.2 in for both months, both August and September combined last year.

Got it. So if I do and you're already.

You're already 300 over.

Yeah. So if I do 3 million for August and 3 million for September, which I plan on doing, then I'm going to be farther ahead. Now, the downside is the product I'm using pays considerably less for the most part. And so, I mean, when you have a 1.5% less payout, that definitely. I mean, for every 10 million, you make 150,000 less. That's. That's a little bit of a challenge. Sure.

Totally. Well, would you say that that's been the biggest challenge going virtual for a large chunk of your. Your production is just dealing with, you know, large case sizes that are harder to get closed or what's. I mean, what would you say has been the biggest challenge so far?

In all of it.

That, you know, I would say.

It doesn't feel like there's quite as much of a connection.

Okay.

You know, I mean, face to face, there's always a better connection. And I, I say that's probably the biggest. If you took the two things together and said, what's your, if you could pinpoint one thing, that would be it.

Okay.

And then often, you know, if I'm face to face with someone, I can see the husband, wife right there. A lot of times when you're doing zoom calls, you have one person in the frame and the other person sitting out.

Right.

So I don't get to see body language. I mean, it's a lot more difficult from that standpoint.

Have you, have you had challenges with people actually being able to access the meeting room and like they actually get on like they're having technical issues? Is that, and how you tried to resolve that sometimes?

I mean, that's not near what I thought it would be. Because even if they have an issue doing that, I'll actually go on, I'll walk, walk them through that. I mean, it's so simple. What do you do? You go onto your email, you click the link, and the biggest thing would be they don't activate their camera, they don't activate their microphone, but that's something you can easily ask them to do and it pops up in their screen to click to do it. So, yeah, zoom's gotten a lot better too. I mean, they've really started to do things that do make it easier for someone who doesn't or is not familiar with the concept of virtual appointments.

Right. I have found in conversations with agents that are doing virtual, that kind of the age threshold that seems to be more effective in a face to face. And then the others that there's not really a drop off is about that 70 year old mark, 65 to 70 in that range, if they're there or older. I've heard agents talking about it can be challenging doing the virtual with them. And if they're 65, 70 or younger, especially in their 50s, then it's a whole lot easier to do the virtual. And so the general rule of thumb that I've kind of encouraged agents to consider if they're trying to go virtual is if you're dealing with a million plus in premium, it's probably worth going face to face if they're local, especially go face to face. Or even if you buy a plane ticket and travel.

Yeah.

I mean it's.

Yeah, if they're 20, if they're within 125 miles. I will, I still do. Face to face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, and actually, for the bigger cases, I'll just plan it on a Friday and my wife and I will just take the weekend and we'll spend time wherever we are. We'll get a hotel room and we'll just spend time up there exploring. Yeah. So.

And that's why I've encouraged, even if it's out of state, to hop on a plane and fly. You're talking about, I mean, I don't know, the concept to me, for an agent, especially when we're dealing with, you know, lower producers, you're talking, you know, 3 million to 5 million a year, and they're, they're apprehensive about getting on a plane and flying somewhere because they don't want to spend the time or the money. You're talking about a 70, 60 to $70,000 commission. It's like, why wouldn't you.

Yeah, for me, as you can imagine, I mean, taking a whole day for one client. I mean, a big, big, big client, possibly. But literally flying, because it's not one day. I mean, most of the time you're having a flying in the morning, get there, and then fly out the next day. There are some airports you can go into where you can get in and out the same day, but that's not, that's not always the case.

Right. Well. And most agents don't have the volume of appointments that you have.

Correct.

And so for them to try and close a million dollar deal, to spend a few thousand dollars, a couple thousand dollars to try to, you know, give them the very best shot. The thing that I think happens a lot of times is agents will be apprehensive to spend the money because they don't feel confident they're going to win it anyways.

I was just gonna say that's a big lack of confidence, obviously, you know, and that's where if you feel really good about what you do, how you do it, you feel excellent about the product knowledge and. Yeah, I mean, it makes it worth it.

Awesome.

But I know you had some questions for me. What were some other things that you.

Yeah, we've talked through a lot of those questions. I wanted to know what, you know, why kind of why you transitioned. What seemed like it's been the biggest thing. The last one I wanted to hear from you is what are some words of advice you would give anybody that is considering transitioning? You know, maybe guys that have been in the industry a while and They've done appointments face to face, and they're considering transitioning to virtual. What are your thoughts and opinions?

Well, as an old dog trying to learn new tricks, I mean, you know, 51 isn't really old, but I'll tell you, you know, it is hard for me to get out of the habit. There's this calling system I use called Kixie, and it basically picks a local number for that area going into. But I could use that for local calls, but I don't. I still use my actual phone and I dial it. And I think we're going to. You have to be more efficient with time. You have to go through and make sure you're being very efficient. And that's going to mean technology is going to be a thing. If you don't stay in touch with that, you don't keep up with it, you're going to fall to the wayside. There's no doubt about it.

Yeah, well, that's actually a perfect segue into next week's conversation. Next week, we're going to be talking about presence equals productivity. And so your. Your whole concept about efficiency. We'll. We'll bring that full circle on next week's episode. But that's a wrap for me today.

That's a wrap. You have nothing else to add? I'm good. What is going on? This is like. I don't know if that's ever happened. Well, I have one more thing, you know. Oh, my word.

Yeah.

That's why he would never. Yeah, I'm. I'm glad you don't. It's good to hear you get quiet. So, okay. Until next time. Of course. Happy selling, Sam.