Josh Elliott built Savings Angel to seven figures without paid ads by focusing on relationships instead. He uses a "butterfly garden" approach: cultivate a network of ideal prospects rather than chase them with cold outreach. His daily rhythm includes interviewing 6-10 leaders on his podcast and delegating everything else.
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How did you get into the US Army and then into the business?
Actually, yeah, absolutely. So it was actually the Navy.
And I've been through a little bit more of your journey. What was your early childhood like?
Raised kind of lower working class in the Midwest, you know, raised certainly with a very, very strong work ethic.
What are most people doing wrong in the marketing profession?
A lot of times we're convinced that in order to do what we truly love, we have to do things that are very uncomfortable.
What would be like the icebreaker moment for people are listening to this podcast.
So the best analogy I like to share is, let's say that you wanted to be in a position where you were attracting a lot of butterflies.
What is probably one of the big mistakes you have made which we all can avoid by learning from?
I thought sales was about convincing other people. Um, it was very, very difficult for me.
What's going on? What's going on, everybody who's actually listening to this podcast right now? First of all, guys, welcome back to Welcome back to another episode of Dheenakil Sai Show, which is hosted by me, Dheenakil Sai. And guess what's going on today? We're back with another amazing guest. I mean, this guest is phenomenal. He has done over 2,000 podcasts. Just imagine that. Launched over 200 podcasts, been in 2,500+ publications. This is insane. Like different media appearances. And he scaled his company to 7 figures in annual sales with zero paid ads. So if you are a high-ticket agency owner and you're thinking, oh my God, how can I trust with my potential clients? How can I build better relationships? This podcast will be a game changer. So stay tuned. The guest we're jumping on is none other than Josh Elliott, who is the CEO at UpMyInfluence. Hey Josh.
Nick, it's so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, absolutely. Josh, excited. We will definitely talk about the nitty-gritty stuff of how to build B2B relationships, how to build a better influence, how to do podcasting, all of that good jazz, which we will definitely deep dive into. Before that, Josh, I mean, you were a, you know, US veteran previously, I'm stoked to kind of dive into a little bit more of your journey. What was your early childhood like? How did you get into the US Army and then into the business, actually? So, I would love to understand your backstory and get more context.
Yeah, absolutely. So, it was actually the Navy. And so, us Army-Navy types always want to be very clear on which branch we served in. Navy? Yeah, no, originally—
That sounds more scary to me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and in fact, and I'll share just a bit about that in a moment. So, but yeah, you know, raised kind of lower working class in the Midwest, you know, raised certainly with a very, very strong work ethic. My dad was a hardworking guy and he imparted that on me. And so I ended up joining the military right out of high school and I became a U.S. Navy journalist. And very specifically, I was a broadcast journalist and I had the unique opportunity. There's a movie in the '80s that you may be familiar with. It's called Good Morning, Vietnam. And it's the story of Adrian Cronauer. And Staff Sergeant Cronauer was, you know, someone in my life that left an indelible mark on me because when I joined the Navy, I thought being a journalist was something that sounded fun. I wanted to very specifically at the time, I wanted to be a DJ. But when he came in, he instilled in me a love of serving audiences. And if you know his story, you know, one thing that he was just a very staunch advocate of is always be honest, always be upfront. Don't ever try to pull the wool over your audience because your credibility is all you have. So, you know, good, bad, or ugly, you really just should just lay your cards down on the table. It is what it is. And, you know, it's always honest. It's always appropriate to, to be truthful. Right. And if you— again, if you know his story, he got in some hot water for that. And ultimately history vindicated him. Well, that really, again, impacted my career. And so from there, I went on to actually study family therapy because I wanted to be a love doctor on the radio and help people. And I wanted to serve in that way. I ended up getting involved in internet development, development. Development and starting a couple of companies that eventually I started one that did pretty well and that was Savings Angel and that did become a 7-figure a year company. And I guess, you know, one of our claims to fame is we did that with zero paid ads, quite frankly, because at the beginning, Nick, I had no money for advertising, but yet I knew that exposure is everything. You just have to be seen. And I think this is really important today because we're going to be talking about offers. We're going to be talking about what is selling right now in big ticket. We're going to talk about the state of the lead generation space right now because it's really challenging for agency owners, for consultants, for coaches, for B2B service providers that are selling a little bit higher ticket type offers, right? Where the ALV would be north of say $10,000 or more, right? So we'll get into that a little bit. But again, it's, it's, really important to understand that audiences today have never been more cynical. They've never been more protective of their time. And so if you're dealing with a formula where when we think about where our money comes from, let's, let's think about our offers that we have today. Now, if people have purchased them in the past and, you know, if you have the opportunity, generally you have an okay conversion rate. Then there's probably not a whole lot you need to worry about there. If people have bought it before, people continue to buy it when presented with the right opportunity, that's good, right? And as long as you keep your customers, in other words, your service really works, then there's probably not a whole lot of work you need to do there. In terms of like how well you're selling, I mean, sure, there's probably some things we can always do to improve there. But usually what I find is that for most of us, Nick, when let's say that we're in, in a room, And this is a great way to think about, you know, the state of our offer and how good we are, right? If you had an opportunity where let's say that you were in a room with 20 of your ideal customers or partners, right? And let's say you had some time to, to develop a little bit of a meaningful conversation or relationship with each of those people, right? It wasn't forced. It was just very natural. How many of those people typically in that kind of environment would, would you end up doing business with? Now, most people I know and I I work with who are good at what they do, you know, a 20 to 30% conversion rate is pretty typical today. But the, the challenge is, is, um, you know, how can we spend time and build a meaningful relationship with 20 of our ideal folks, uh, you know, on a regular basis? And that seems to be the biggest challenge today. We just need more at-bats. Now here's the big challenge.
All right.
Marketers in general over the past 5, 10 years have been pretty aggressive in trying to find every available channel to bombard their, in their words, leads with marketing and advertising messages. You know, they try to be clever, they try to be cute, they try to be, you know, in some ways I would consider to be deceptive. And because of that, there's a really good book by Mark Schaefer called Marketing Rebellion. And Mark talks about the kind of the work that I've been doing. I've been studying and leading on consumer behavior for about 20 years now. And you know, what I've come to find out again is that we're just done with it, right? The fields have been decimated by what I call the lead gen locusts. And because of that, it's unfortunate, but a lot of really great platforms like LinkedIn Sales Navigator and email and a lot of these other outreach methods just don't perform like they used to.
Agreed.
Even advertising has been impacted quite a bit. And so what are we to do? Well, here's the good news. And I'm going to just be very, very plain on who my ideal audience is. We generally work with very relationship-focused sales, you know, business leaders, coaches, consultants, but they don't mind investing in a relationship first. In other words, they're not just trying to sell at leads. They don't mind getting to know the people that they want to work with, and then they'll explore and see if there's an opportunity. Those are— that's typically who we work with. So again, a lot of people that are selling bigger ticket engagements, relationships just going to be very, very critical to that. So, so that's who we work with. So here's the good news for that audience. If that is you, if I just described you, you'd be like, yep, yep, I absolutely love building a relationship first and then do business second. The good news is you're in great, you're in a great position right now because marketers, or at least cheap marketers, or, you know, kind of these spammy amateur marketers are always going to try to bastardize relationships. And that's good news for people who are a little bit more relationship-oriented. So if you'll just simply zig while they're zagging, right? Try to stay in the blue ocean of slowing down, spending more time with fewer people. You know that works. That's how I built Savings Angel. And for me, it was about building relationships with journalists. I became a syndicated newspaper columnist myself. I've been on TV more than 800 times, all told over 2,000 media appearances. That's how I built Savings Angel. But I really was very thoughtful about who I wanted to collaborate with. And I didn't mind taking days and weeks and months to get to know someone and very importantly, leading in generosity. And I'll just kind of finish with this because you asked a very simple question and here I am going on like 5, 6, 7 minutes now with the answer.
Oh, we love this.
Laying some groundwork here, laying some groundwork. But again, we're really going to focus on why a go-giver approach works so well today. If you're familiar with the book The Go-Giver by Bob Burg and John David Mann, it is absolutely what works today. Again, we've worked with hundreds of high-ticket agency owners, coaches, and consultants, folks that have been around for a little bit of time, and the go-giver approach works exceptionally well today. And I'm happy to go into as much detail as you want on why that's the case.
We'll definitely talk about that, Josh. That's really interesting turns in your life, you know, from a high school kid joining, you know, US Navy to actually starting your venture and scaling it to $1 million without any advertising spend, only through relationships. And that's fascinating to me. And most people don't get this, but it is possible, you know, like, and people get this wrong if I'm not mistaken, which is High-ticket sales are purely based on outcome and relationship, and you can likely give the outcome. That's why you're in the business in the first place. But if you don't build the relationship, then you can't really get the business in the first place. And it's so true. I'm curious, let's talk about, first of all, what's going wrong? What are most people doing wrong in the marketing message?
Yeah, listen, and I don't want anyone to feel bad because I think here's my perception of many business owners, and I'll include myself. We start a company because we really enjoy some aspect of what we do, right? It could be leadership coaching or consulting. It could be organizational management, you know, whatever. It could be SEO, it could be design, branding. And that's what we love. And we want to do that work because it just, we feel that that's why we're here on the earth, right? We're here to make the world a better place. And that's the way that we serve. And then we say, Okay, good. I want to do that. How can I do more of that? Well, you got to get in. You have to build more relationships. And so we start looking around and we start going on YouTube and listening to podcasts. And, and a lot of times there's, you know, we're going to come across a lot of gurus' voices. And those gurus have basically said, listen, you know, if you want to do what you truly love, you're just going to have to play the game. And so you're going to have to use these marketing automation systems and you're going to have to engage in behavior that, that many would describe as kind of more of a spray and pray approach, right? Where we're just going to bombard the airwaves with our message. We're going to try to communicate with as many people as humanly possible. And sometimes that message gets quite watered down. And so, and then a lot of times We're convinced that in order to do what we truly love, we have to do things that are very uncomfortable, right? I don't like banging on people's doors trying to sell them stuff. I don't like shoving business cards in people's hands and then going into a pitch. And similarly, I don't like sending spam. It makes me feel uncomfortable. And then, and then even if I do get an appointment, I don't like being in a position where somehow the relationship dynamic is is one where I'm expected to pitch and try to convince them to buy my thing. To me, that just doesn't feel good. Um, now again, not everyone's like that. And if you are hearing kind of what I'm talking about, you're like, I don't have a problem with it, that's cool, that's fine, right? For me, um, you know, it could be my insecurity, I don't know, but I just don't enjoy that. I don't like being a robo salesperson. Um, to me, my best business comes through relationships, right? So historically, I would get a lot of business through events, but it wasn't necessarily— I did a lot of— I've done a lot of speaking. I've spoken, you know, Social Media Marketing World several times, a lot of podcast conferences, Podcast Movement, Podfest, et cetera. And I've spoken for the Tony Robbins organization, kind of an online, one of his online events through his Business Mastery audience. But where I ended up getting most of my business through these events was in the speaker lounge. It was in the VIP mixers. It was the quiet conversations in the hallways where, you know, people were just relaxed. We weren't focused on selling and we were just, you know, just, hey, tell me what you do. Oh, did we just get to know each other? And then, you know, eventually it looks like there might be some opportunities for partnership or collaboration or, you know, they might hear what my superpowers are. And say, wow, I could really use help with that. And historically, that was, you know, getting them, you know, with their name in lights in the media, which was kind of my background up until about 5 years ago when we discovered something a little bit more powerful in terms of business and sales development. But I really enjoy that. You know, maybe like you, Nick, it's honoring. I feel so good when someone sends me a a warm connection or send someone to me, that just, that to me feels so validating. I like doing business in what I refer to as a whisper network. It's not flashy. It's not showy. I'm not out there doing TikTok dances to try to drum up business, right? I'm just, I'm having, I'm having quiet conversations with other business leaders. And here's one thing I've learned. Business leaders that like each other are going to often work very hard to try to find ways to help one another. That's where you see these really big collaborations and these amazing launches that, that these leaders do for one another. It's because they liked each other first. It usually wasn't because you got an audience. I got an audience. Let's go make a bunch of money. Like that could be part of it, but usually not. I find that most high-level leaders are actually very genuine, good people who just want to do good in the world and they like doing business with their friends. And I would add myself to that. I love doing business with people that I feel like I have a friendship with.
Yeah, yeah, that is so true. And the biggest icebreaker is like most people are so short-term thinking, including myself when I got started in my own business. So nothing wrong with it when you're getting started, but when you're trying to scale, you got to change the perspective, in my opinion. So help us understand, Josh, How can somebody who is probably trying to keep their lights turned on, you know, make their business work out, they're in their first $5,000, $10,000 months, they're getting into tricky situations with their client acquisition, they're desperate about money. How can they go and think about like, oh my God, what's like the aha moment for me to realize that it's relationship first, sales will follow. I just gotta have that long-term personality type. And I know for a fact, like it takes me 3 weeks to close a $20K sale. But I have multiple of those conversations lined up where I'm genuinely building relationships and that the consistency comes in. So I'm curious, what would be like the icebreaker moment for people who are listening to this podcast so they could shift their mindset from short-term to long-term sales cycle where it's more relationship over than just cash?
Yeah. So the best analogy I like to share is let's say that you wanted to be in a position where you were attracting a lot of butterflies, right? So we use this analogy. Now, you might say, I need butterflies and I want butterflies today. And so you go search the internet, you go search around, you're like, how can I get butterflies today? And someone says, well, you need the whiz-bang, you know, butterfly net 3000, right? So then you buy the butterfly net and you're like, well, what am I supposed to do with it? And they said, sorry, you're going to have to run up and down the street like a maniac swinging that butterfly net around and try to catch butterflies. And so you go out and you run around and you try to do that and you may or may not be successful, you know, but you look kind of silly, but you do it anyway because that's the necessary evil that you were told that you were supposed to do. Now, a business adult or someone that's willing to play a little bit of the long game. And again, we'll talk about some immediate, like how we can stimulate this, make this happen a little bit faster. But ideally, let's say that, you know, let's say you gave yourself the luxury of a few months to get the momentum going. Going, and you wanted to attract a lot of butterflies. What's something else that we could do? Well, very simply, you need to have a butterfly garden. It's as simple as that. If you have an attractive and well-manicured butterfly garden, then what happens? The butterflies come to you. So how do we then attract these ideal connections? And you think about who is in your Dream 100, right? And I'm not talking the unicorns. I'm talking about people that just fit your ideal persona. You know, folks that, you know, if in your industry on a scale from 1 to 10, you're a 4, um, you're aiming for the 5s and 6s. Okay, those are very attainable people, right? But you cannot lead with a big net and, and a crazy look on your face, right? Where you're like, I'm gonna get you, butterfly, right? You can't do that because the butterflies are going to be like, get the heck out of here, right? So So, you have to lead in generosity, right? If there's one book I inspire you to read after listening to this conversation, please go read The Go-Giver by Bob Burg. Because the idea is that if you lead with what you want and what you need, in other words, if you have desperate sales breath, listen, I've been there. I've done that. I know what that feels like. It's hard. It sucks, but you're going to have to find a way to get your bills paid while you just focus on creating more of an attraction, you know, so that butterflies want to come to be you. So what this looks like is you need to give away what these leaders truly want. Now, I might, not everyone's going to agree with me here, but here's my observation. If you just start DMing white papers or invitations to jump in on a webinar with a bunch of other people, you know, and you're looking for higher ticket type clients, that's really challenging today. I find that it's pretty hard to get people that are very busy and they don't necessarily— like they have a lot of things going on, right? They're not super desperate. I find that sometimes if you're if you're selling downmarket and it's a newer audience and they're just looking for great ideas, sure, I think some of those methods could work okay, but usually not for folks that are doing 6, 7 figures and beyond. They usually are pretty savvy. So you're going to have to find out, well, what do they really, really want? And so, Nick, this was a challenge that we had faced about 5 years ago as I was getting good business from events. But then if I wasn't speaking at events, I don't know that I did. I wasn't getting a lot of new business. I didn't have a lot of folks, you know, in the pipeline, so to speak. And so, you know, what, what we did is I said, listen, what do people like me want? Well, it feels good to be validated. It feels good to gain exposure. I'm always looking to make an impact on audiences. And so for me, I was able to— I was a podcaster. I've been podcasting since 2007. I said, well, wait a minute, you know, I'm currently doing about one show a week. What would happen if I did more episodes? And I started expanding and it started reaching out. And I said, you know what? I would love to identify people that I would love to work with. And I'm just going to do them a solid. Like, I am absolutely going to lead in generosity. I don't care what the outcome is. I am just going to do nice things for people in the marketplace. And I'm going to see what happens. Right? So I'm not going to lead with some kind of, oh, and then I'm going to try and pitch them or sell them. No, you cannot do that. Right? Yeah. Can I share? I'm going to share one more thing because again, here I am going long-winded on an answer. I hope this is valuable, by the way.
It is.
But this is really important to know. We all, and I'm saying when I say we, I'm saying sophisticated business leaders that have been around for some time. Matter of fact, I would expand this to nearly all consumers. All know your intention. You're not fooling anybody. So in other words, if your heart is not pure in the sense that your give is not authentic, we all know. We all know. And in fact, you know, we know what your intention is before you even open your mouth. Again, this is because most consumers, and most especially if you're in business for yourself, you've just been bombarded so many times with all these shifty tactics. So we're already a little bit protective. Like, I've got probably 4 to 5 emails that sound like they go to me. Only one does. And I am ruthless in my one personal email account. Like, it's a slash and burn. Like, I don't— I just don't engage with anyone that cold emails me. And I'm near— I mark nearly 100% of those people as spam and block them. And it's not their fault and I feel bad for them, but I just have to be so protective of my time and attention. And Nick, I would argue that most of us are in that boat. We're just very protective of our time and attention. So don't blame what you call leads, which I, by the way, I think leads is a pretty derogatory term to refer to other human beings. But again, just it's about having more empathy about what people want and need. What's going— what do they want most right now? Like in the case of work working with journalists and producers, they just want to do a really good job. So what's my job is to lead in service and do everything I can to help them do well. And that then led to a lot of meaningful relationships. And then it led to a lot of very successful relationships together. And it did. Some of them took a few months in order to, you know, get engagement. This is the— this is just how relationships work. Think about the meaningful relationships you have in your life right now. They usually didn't happen overnight. It took some time for them to get to where they are today. It's the same thing in business.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's like the one-week girlfriend lasts one month maximum. Like, you got to have that long-term relationship to have a happy marriage. And that's just so true in business as well. I believe the more time you have in your sales cycle to understand the client and make that clear shift before you actually sign up, that just gives you more lifetime value with the client and the expectations mismatch won't really happen because you clearly understand each other. If you're just showing all the dreams and you get the client in, then all that happens is you burn and churn them, which is not really a sustainable way in growing a business overall. Josh, I'm completely aligned with the idea of building the flower garden so that butterflies can come to it. But I believe because I actually talk to a lot of agency owners, coaches, high-ticket business owners, B2B services, and everybody has this misconception, including a little bit of myself, that, oh, my clients don't watch YouTube, my clients don't listen, they don't care about my PDF, they don't care about the stuff I put out. So they have all this, including myself, a lot of like mental objections about giving value first, assuming that the other person is not willing to take it. They just want the outcome and they want to know the price and they're price sensitive. So I'm curious, how would you change the perspective on what is the best way to create that flower garden? What is the most lucrative playbook you have?
Well, I think you bring up a legitimate concern that there is a lot of content out there and it is, it's very challenging to get me to want to watch content. Again, I find that if someone is willing to slow down with me, I do business with my friends and I generally only then do business with people who I feel know they, they really get me. Like, it's— I don't generally— I'm not usually looking for the lowest bidder. I'm not usually looking for the lowest price. I want to work with someone that I trust, someone who I feel really has my needs. If they're— if they have a service and I'm going to be paying with them and I hire a lot of people, you know, the idea here is what you want to earn is proximity together. And if, if all you're doing is just blasting content that is just quite similar to what may be perceived to be everywhere else out there for free, it's gonna be hard. Selling e-courses is a lot, a lot more challenging today. Now I see a lot of hybrid type services doing very, very well, but only content alone, it's a little bit more challenging than it used to be. It's not that it doesn't sell, it's just usually it requires a little bit more work. The, the, the customer journey might be a little bit longer today in my experience. So the thing that we want to give away ideally, Nick, would be something that can earn us personal time together. You know, for those of us who aren't going to conferences every single week, I'm not, Zoom is about your best bet today. Can you spend time together on Zoom? Um, let, let me share with you an idea.
Mm-hmm.
And again, this is a little bit more evidence of, of why I generally am a fan of this concept. And, and that is, I think that all of us have an amazing gift and, and I think a lot of us may be using it, um, in, in a way that, that is, is kind of undervaluing this. And that is the gift of platform. Mm-hmm. Platform is something we all have access to. Social media is a platform. A podcast is a platform. YouTube is a platform. Now, a lot of times we use that platform to self-aggrandize. We use it to, hey, look at me, I'm a genius, look at my brilliance. And so we keep using this to pontificate and to share all this, how smart we are. And I think most of us, our intentions are noble and pure. But I think we're missing a huge opportunity because you could also use your platform to shine the spotlight on other people. And, and I want you to think about this. What could happen if you did this? I'll, I'll give you an example because, you know, just about how accessible we have. I don't care if you have very few people. Let's say you've got, like, I've got 80 people in my social media following. All right. Are you a member of a community or a group, right, where you could be a contributor to that group? You could give value to that group. Here's a perfect example. In a world that I had absolutely nothing to gain, but I think is a good illustration of just trying to handicap me in a way where, how could I? Because I do have a big audience today, and I'm very grateful for that. but, but here's— so I went to a conference with my wife, and my wife is a— is— she's a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she's a licensed sex therapist, and she's very, very good at what she does, and she works with a, uh, kind of a unique population. So I went to a conference, uh, around that population, and I'm a nobody in that room. Like, I, I don't— nobody knows me. I am of no consequence to anyone in the room. I'm not speaking. My wife was, but I'm just— I'm I'm just, I'm hanging out in support of her.
Okay.
But I'm just sitting there now. I am a member, however, of this old Facebook group with this community, this particular community. And I'm like, hey, it's a good group. You know, we're doing good things. We're helping good people. It's, you know, like I said, not really my tribe, but I'm like, hey, I'm a member of this. And so I, I checked, I verified, checked the rules in the Facebook group and there was permission where I could do a livestream as a member of that community. So I'm like, Well, I'm just sitting around doing nothing anyway. So I went over to the meeting organizer. I said, listen, you don't know me. You might know my wife, Jenny, but listen, would you want to do a quick livestream to this Facebook group? And I'd be happy to ask you questions and you can talk about what's going on here. And she says, absolutely, I would love to do that. Right. And so all I did is I typed, you know, put a couple sentences in there. I hit go live and then I just held up my phone. And like total amateur hour. But I'm like, hey, we're on the ground at this Thrive event, and da da da da da da. And so, and I'm here with so-and-so, and, uh, you know, you know, and I forget her name, right? Sarah. I'll just pretend her name is Sarah. Sarah, uh, tell us what's going on here. And then I just aimed the phone at her and I let her take it away. And then I said, you know, I'm like, and I see that you've got some vendors here. Like, in my mind, I know the business of events, right? And so you want to take care of your vendors. And, and she goes, yeah, we do have vendors. And so then we start walking around and I'm just live streaming the whole time and there's people engaging. These aren't my audience, they're just people in the group, right? And so we're going around and then the vendors are like, well, you know, and they get to talk about what they're doing. And so how much, Nick, this, this didn't cost me anything to do this, right? Is it that hard? No, because I'm not even— she's the one that— Sarah is the one that's doing all the work. I'm just holding the phone. And so now we then go to like 4 to 5 different vendors and we're talking and I said, and then I said, well, Sarah, thank you so much for this. It's been great. Any final words?
Da da da da da da.
And she does. And then I hit stop. And then afterwards, Nick, what do you imagine happened?
I mean, I can expect it.
All the vendors and Sarah, what do you imagine their response was to this thing that I did? And it cost me nothing. Took all of 15 minutes of my time. Every single one of them afterwards was like, thank you so much for that. Was so nice of you. Thank you. And Sarah's like, tell me what, like, who's, tell me, introduce me to Jenny and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and again, I have nothing to gain from this, but it was something nice that I could do in the moment. And again, if you're a vendor who's plunked down a few hundred dollars to show up at an event and you know, to you, every bit of exposure just really makes a difference. This is really valuable stuff that we can give. Nick, it feels so good for me as well to let other people know that what you do matters in the world. What you do adds value. What you do, you deserve this emotion of significance. It feels so good to do that. So again, if I could urge folks watching, listening to us right now, think of ways that you can use platform to celebrate others, because what's going to happen is you're gonna build meaningful relationships week after week after week after week. And, and, and again, it costs you very little to do this, and people, including the right people, will really appreciate you doing this.
I agree, Josh, that was beautiful. I think this is one of the best demonstrations of being a go-giver, how you could like actually go give first and you don't expect anything back. The reciprocity just works out. And I believe reciprocity is 100% real when you are actually having right intention, like when your why is clear and you know what you— when you start with your why and your why is pure enough to actually genuinely help somebody else and you're being, being, you're being a go-giver, I doubting the ability of anybody building a successful business. That was a beautiful lesson, Josh. Thank you so much for sharing.
I appreciate that. And again, I just want to underline this. This is not a transactional relationship. You're not doing this so, you know, you can ask for something in return. That's just transactional. And then the Go-Giver, Bob talks about that quite a bit. You know, that's, that's what money is for, right? And so here we're giving. And again, this sounds scary for some people, what I'm talking about. I'm just going to give away all my time and I'm not going to get anything in return. Okay, calm down. You will, but you got to be cool about it. Like, you can't ask for it. You have to give leaders the space to return. And if you don't ask for anything in return, they'll usually give it to you. Someone who is generous with me, I am going to ask them. And I see leaders do this all the time. You know, maybe depending on what kind of marketing conference you go to, if it's a little bro-y, you probably won't get as much of this. But certainly, like, true leaders who have been around will almost always say, what can I do for you? You know, and they genuinely want— and here's what I know, folks that are leaders usually have a lot of things going on. There are oftentimes some things that they can snap their fingers and make the right introduction, and it could be a life changer. Finally, I'll just close with this in this little segment here, is that giving into your industry feels, you know, it feels, might make you a little nervous at first, but here's what I found consistently. If you continue to give in your industry, you will get to a point where you will be able to outgive what you receive in return. But you just have to earn your stripes a little bit, and you will absolutely enjoy all the treasures because, again, you've built all of these meaningful relationships. You're just super well-liked in the world.
That's a very beautiful wisdom line right there. And I'm grateful that you're sharing some amazing golden value here. One last question before we get into a series of questions we have for the last 10 minutes. But before that, I could see a clear difference in the type of selling you are doing compared to what most P2P agencies actually do. So I would love to know, like, what do you believe is the key difference in your pitch, especially when you have that conversation of, hey, what do you do? Like, now, do you— like, the typical idea is get desperate, show your offer, you know, make a crazy guarantee, charge the least possible, bid against everybody else, and just like try to sell your soul, you know, like walk their dogs if required to get the deal. That's kind of the typical B2B sales training out there. I'm curious in relationship approach, what's different, what's working? And I believe smart people who are buying high ticket, they can sense bullshit from miles away. Like miles. Like it's like, okay, I see you, don't talk to me. Like it's simple as that. So I'm curious what works the best in relationship selling in a sales call or when you're actually having that conversation transacting or making a project live.
Well, look, this, this right here, this, this one thing absolutely changed my performance when it came to doing more business more than anything else. My goal, let's say, let's say that we have— I have a great conference. Here's another example. Let's say that you're on a panel and the other panelists and at an event, right? And the other panelists are like legit leaders that that, you know, if you were doing business together, there could be some good stuff happening, right? So let's say you do that act of service together. You get to know each other, and then you lean over to one of them afterwards. You're like, you know, I really like what you had to share. Listen, I would love to chat sometime. I don't know if there's anything we can do together. I don't know if there's any collaboration opportunities. I don't know if I can help in any way or if I've got any introductions. But I'd love to find out, you know, you know, let's grab a Zoom call sometime next week or whatever. You know, if you have time, you know, during the event, you know, grab coffee or whatever. Like, listen, Nick, everybody would say yes to that sort of an invitation.
Okay.
I have no expectation of what would happen in this follow-up conversation. And to have an expectation, I would argue would be both audacious and inappropriate because I don't know. It's like, you know, asking someone out because you, you know, you're gonna ask them to marry you or something like that. It's way early in that relationship. It is inappropriate to presuppose someone else's intention. So therefore, we should just be a blank slate and whatever happens happens, right? I'm here to do good in the world and I am willing to just let the chips fall where they may. And if you will have that kind of business adult mindset, leaders recognize generosity. In fact, here's a good tweet for you right here, a good quote that you could pull out. Generosity is the language that leaders use to identify one another. Scarcity is the language of the amateur. And so if we are willing to just give, you'll open up the space for reciprocity, but don't ask for it. Just trust that it'll happen. Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be intentional about, you know, if you think that there might be some opportunities, go ahead and ask to continue the conversation. Now, in this follow-up conversation, Nick, and this is, this is again, another important delineator because again, I want business to get done, but I don't know what it is. I'm open to it. I don't care what it is. Right? I know that 1 1 in— when we're talking about this high-level networking and relationship building, 1 1 isn't 2. It's not 3. It's 11. Right? When you have leaders that have a lot of things going on, you could do really fun, big things together. Again, give the space so that that could happen. But my goal in that follow-up conversation is not to get them to buy my product. Ever, ever, ever, ever. Um, that— not at all. If I did have a goal, it would be to evoke in my friend the sentiment of, good, now I have a friend who does what you do. If I had any goal, it would be to evoke that in my friend. Because again, it's like, if I had— let's say, you know, I've been so frustrated with SEO agencies in the past, but I had someone who was just a genuine, like, they were just a genuinely good person. And their price is within, you know, within reason of, like, it doesn't even have to be the cheapest thing. It can actually be even more expensive. It's like my neighbor who owned a landscaping company. I said, you know, when we were at a neighborhood thing, and she goes, I said, hey, well, what do you guys do? She goes, we own a landscaping company. I said, wonderful, I'll hire you. And she goes, well, we're, and she said, we're a little bit more expensive than, you know, than who you're paying right now. I said, I don't care. You're my friend. We all want to do business with our friends. And so, you know, again, with that sort of noble intention, you're going to do plenty of business. You'll do just fine. Don't worry about having hypnotic sales copy and hypnotic, you know, NLP closing tactics or whatever. Like, you don't need, in my opinion, listen, some people would argue otherwise. I don't worry so much about that. I'm just there to be a good person. And, you know, I'd say if there is, you know, I don't mind being the person that, you know, how can I continue this pattern of generosity? What are other things that I could do that could be of service and be of help? And that's probably what I might, you know, suggest. I'm like, well, listen, I'd be happy to do this. You don't have to worry about paying me. And again, that sounds scary to some people. But it depends, right, on who you're hanging out with. If you're hanging out with the scarcity-minded amateurs, yeah, it's probably going to be— you're going to end up doing a lot of free work for people that have no intention at all of paying you. But if you're hanging out with legit leaders, like, that have been around, that I'm not going to let someone give too much to me before I'm going to find some way to over, you know, kind of overcompensate them for their generosity.
Agreed, agreed, Josh. I think that's a beautiful lesson for sure. And that one thing really clicked overall. You know, leaders are definitely looking for generous people to relate with and do business, and they could absolutely sense the bullshit. The bullshit is the scarcity mindset, like you said, because somebody who's so scared is always in the flight or fight mode, and they can't really even execute the project when you hand them the project because it's not in their caliber. They're just so focused on putting the food on the table or whatever the situation is, and, you know, have that crooked intention, and they can't really, uh, you know, like build that business. Business. That's pretty sweet, Josh. We have a different line of questions, short and sweet, so if you're excited, we could dive into those.
Yes, please.
Awesome.
So I would love to know much faster this time.
No, we love what's happening, Josh. I think it's a brief explanation with actionable and tactical stuff which people could take notes from and actually execute. So guys, if you're tuning into the podcast, don't just let this talk show be some hype for you to build relationships relationship. But like Josh is giving actionable steps on what to do, like building a garden, creating assets, go and build those relationships, you know, do sophisticated connection building. And you could write this down and go execute. And that's what I love about my show, which is having guests who actually share tactical stuff with storytelling, which actually gets into the head instead of just some math problem which we probably forgot anyway. So I'm excited, Josh. Curious on what tools do you use on a daily basis to manage your project and personal productivity clients?
Boy, I'll tell you, um, people. I, I am— listen, I, I know where my zone of genius is, and I know what I'm not really awesome at. Now, that said, answer your question. So, so, first, first cop-out answer is I have a really good COO. Um, she's incredible. I have great managers. I hire specifically to fill in the gaps because I know the things I don't enjoy. And so I'm very, very keen on hiring people, and good people, people. And I'm not willing— I, I'm willing to make larger investments in the right people because I know long term it makes life a lot easier. At the beginning, yes, you're gonna have to come up with this, um, you know, economical ways of doing this as possible. Now that said, I wish we had more time to go into this. I use ChatGPT probably about an hour a day at a minimum.
Wow.
Yeah, and it's for a lot of deep— it's for a lot of deep thinking type stuff. It's for strategy, um, you know, copy. I'm really careful when it comes to copy generation, um, because ChatGPT has a very kind of AI sound to it. But for strategy and planning and deep thought and problem solving, uh, I use a lot of AI.
Curious, like, if you could sum it up in a nutshell, like, I've seen people giving away like simple tactical stuff, you know, doing some calculations or doing some research and putting a PDF together, but you're using it for like actual strategy. So that's interesting to me. I'm kind of curious. I would love to lean in a little bit if you could expand it for a minute.
Yeah, well, think of it like, you know, let's say you had like the most brilliant coach, you know, in the universe. And that's the persona that I give ChatGPT. And I said, listen, you know, we're gonna go through and here's the things that I really, And it's not that ChatGPT is going to give me the answers, but ChatGPT is going to help me. It's going to evoke the answers in me, right? It's like therapy, right? Usually a good therapist is not going to tell you what to do. The therapist is going to guide you and you're going to come up with the answers. Now, this is helpful if you already have, like, if you've already been around a little bit, you know, you have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to business strategy and what works. Sometimes, you know, the initial answers that I get from ChatGPT, I'll push back on this. Are you sure about that? Because here's my concern and consideration. And, you know, I really try to engage in a back and forth. I don't just accept what's given to me and take it. Now, similarly with working out copy, I don't, first off, I train it on my voice really aggressively and I have a lot of pre-prompts and, you know, a lot of stuff that I kind of fill it up with. But even then, I honestly, like, I'd say it's probably 70% of the way there. Like, if it's something that is going to potentially be my voice to my audience, it's gonna go through a lot of my editing because I'm very careful about that and I'm not perfect, but we use it a lot internally. But I'm, again, very, very careful. So to other leaders out there, even if you're delegating this to your team and you know they're just using AI tools to represent you, you. Can I just urge you to please be very careful about that? Because when I read copy and it's very clearly coming from AI, it's a pretty big net negative. I'm going to tune out. Yeah, it's a big concern I have. But again, for strategy planning and therapy, you know, therapy basically type of stuff where the answer I know is within here. I just need to get beyond the blinking cursor. Answer, right? And the blank page. I just need to get stuff out there and start mind mapping and exploring. Dear God, it's the great— we are living in an amazing time right now with what we have access to right now. So please don't undervalue what you can do, but also again, be very careful about the execution of that in making sure that ultimately this is your voice and your thought.
Yeah, I love that, Josh. And I'm glad that you're using it in all parts of business. People who don't take advantage of it are going to be left out. So, you know, I hope everybody actually takes advantage of it. Uh, Josh, do you have like a few more minutes? I have like a couple questions.
This is my last appointment of the day.
Awesome, great. Thank you so much for confirming. So Josh, would you mind walking us through your typical day? How would that look like?
Yeah, I— well, listen, if it's a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I'm pretty booked out. Um, I generally have very, very busy schedules because I do a daily podcast. So every single week, I'm interviewing 6 to 10 high-level leaders, uh, and it's 30 minutes. I'm in and out. Okay, we work our system.
It is—
if there's anything, if there's— I mean, if you just come find me, go to UpMyInfluence.com, if nothing else, just to see how we communicate and some of how our systems work, because we obsessed on these systems. Now, specifically on our podcast. Now, you know, I'm always looking for great guests. So, you know, if there's someone listening and you're a business leader, click on podcast and you'll see that we're always looking for great guests. So, the way that we've set it up is, sure, I've got some really good team members who do the heavy lifting, but the way I've designed it, I'm the talent. I come in I hit my mark, I'm in and out. I do a daily show, and sometimes people are like, how do you have the time to do it? I'm like, okay, if I do 7 episodes a week on average, that's 3.5 hours out of a 30-hour work week. All right, what am I— I, I still have 9, nearly 90% of my work week open.
15%. Yeah, it's 50% of the time. That's it.
So I got people that handle the front I got people that handle the backend. Now, every single one of my guests, you know, I'm gonna lean over and say, listen, I really like what you had to share. Why don't we chat and see if there's something we should be doing together? I don't, you know, whatever it looks like, I'm happy to be of help. Maybe I've got some introductions. I know some good people, happy to be of service, however that looks. So then I end up doing follow-up calls with all those people. So there's the other 3.5 hours or 4 hours or whatever out of the week, probably a couple of additional follow-up calls Other than that, like, again, I am really mindful of staying in my lane. If I'm ever not in my zone of genius, there's usually a little nagging voice in the back of my head saying, "You should probably give that to Elisa or Gita or Kimberly or Angelique or one of my other team members to do." And again, I know I'm speaking from a place of luxury. It's taken a lot of time to build up the team and the client base that we have right now. It wasn't like that in the beginning, but certainly I think it's a wonderful and noble goal to invite other people to join you in your journey so that you can narrow your focus so that you're only doing what only you can do. I'm a big fan of the E-Myth. So, my number 1 job as a business leader is high-level networking. That's the most important thing I should be doing in my business. Everything Everything else should be delegated. So, excuse me, strategy and high-level networking. Other than that, I got people for that. And again, that's, that's, I hopefully that's an aspiration for many of us to get to that position.
I love that. Yeah. I mean, I constantly hear from a lot of business owners that say, you know, I'm burning out. I'm like, it's obvious you'll burn out when you do things which you don't like. So find your zone of genius.
That is absolutely it. When I'm doing things like, let's, you know, customer service, for example, like I've got really good people that are so much better than me. But if I do customer service, Nick, it's going to burn me out. I'm just not wired for that side, the operational side of it. I'm more of the idea person. Like, so if I'm only doing that, I could work 60 hours a week because doing this, I love this. I love serving audiences. I, you know, I, and by the way, I am okay. There may be people listening and they say, cool, that was great. Never going to, I'm never going to find Josh. Not that it was good, but not that good. Like, I'm okay. Like, if I shared a book reference and that was my only impact to our listener today, a particular listener, I'm okay with that. But I know that usually there's people who are like, you know, I'm gonna acquire Dase. And then, you know, there's usually some people that they're interested, they're curious, and they might Google search me or they might go to my website. And there, you know, I've got a lot of research resources for. We give away. And by the way, like, if you want to deep dive on this stuff, you can watch— like, I don't even require an opt-in. You can watch my full— what's called, like, in our Attraction Mastery Workshop. You know, I don't need your email address. You're an adult. If you like it, you know how to get a hold of me. I just— that kind of stuff is, to me, is silly. So I genuinely like treating other business leaders as adults, like I would want to be treated. And then I had, you know, we end up doing more business that way because people appreciate that level of Trust, the sincerity just works, and the reciprocity kicks in without a doubt.
That's pretty cool, Josh. Josh, if you could go back and talk to 20-year-old yourself and give yourself a few suggestions, what would that look like?
Man, I'll tell you, that was a tough part of my life. I'll be very honest with you because, um, you know, I had— my parents were just not in a position to help with college at all. Um, I didn't really have good grades in high school, so there there was not a lot of potential for me. So I joined the military. I was pretty limited on that. So I'll tell you, I don't think that I would say many words. I would probably just give 20-year-old Josh a hug and say, it's going to be okay because you've got a good heart. Your intentions are genuinely good. You like people. It's going to work out okay for you. Just keep moving forward. By the time you hit 23, you're going to meet an amazing young girl, a young lady. You're going to fall in love. You're going to get engaged in 21 days. And then you're going to get married a year later. We had a long engagement. But, you know, she's the woman I've been married to now for 28 years. And I'm really grateful. So I would say, sure, go ahead and date these other losers. But eventually, I shouldn't say that. But yeah, eventually you're going to find someone that's going to be a good companion. If there's anything I would say, when you hit 23, make sure you go to this luau and make sure you talk to this pretty brunette with the curly hair and don't let her get away. And I didn't. So yeah.
Congratulations. So happy for your 28 years of marriage. Yeah.
It's gone by quick, man.
It's gone by quick. I mean, great relationships feels that way for sure. Only the troublemaking ones, you know, sounds like that every day. So I'm grateful to know that you actually are having an amazing life. So I would love to know, what do you consider are like your life's biggest achievements so far and what are your next bigger goals?
Well, listen, I'd say my kids are doing pretty well. I'm proud of them. I've got 3 kids. You know, again, I'm grateful for my relationship I have with my wife. I, I feel like, I, I feel today I would say, if you're asking me specifically about business, I would say the fact that I, I probably have a couple of thousand people that I genuinely have a good, like, a good relationship. Like, if I reached out to them, they would say, gosh, right? And so I've played the long game on that. I just, I invest in, into great relationships. I collaborate, I do good things for good people. I don't burn bridges. I don't ask out of the gate. I don't do jab, jab, right hook kind of stuff. I, it's pretty much just, I don't know, like I don't, I don't right hook. I wouldn't even consider myself jabbing. I'm just out there doing good stuff. And because of that, listen, I want to give hope to someone who's earlier stage in their business. It gets easier as you go. The more relationships you build, the more people you get to know, the more help you've got, the more people that have got your back. As long as you keep showing up in a generous way you always have a friend that you can then go back to and say, hey, can I get your opinion on something? Can I get your help on something? Can I get your advice on something? And usually people that you've invested into are more than happy to help out if they can. In business professionally, I would absolutely say, you know, it's the people. It's absolutely the people that, you know, they'll send business from time to time. I appreciate that. But honestly, it's the warm relationships. Relationships. If you haven't guessed, I'm, you know, kind of a little bit of a higher empath personality. So genuine relationships really matter a lot to me.
Love that. Love that. I think this is very good, you know, wake-up call for people who are just in that turn-and-burn mode. And I'm glad, you know, you're speaking the truth about building relationships to stay longer in the game. I would love to know, like, what is probably one of the big mistakes you have made which we all can avoid by learning from you?
Well, you know, early, early, early on in one of my failed businesses, I was afraid of sales because I had read the only material— I didn't know anything about quote-unquote sales. And so I just read books from people like Tom Hopkins and, you know, whatever sales books were out there at the time. And Nick, it scared me to death. It really did. Because I, and again, I was probably a little too afraid of rejection and stuff like that. But because I thought sales was about convincing other people It was very, very difficult for me and I just didn't do it very well. And so I had to come to that understanding. No, no, sales is not that at all. It's about your ability to bring more and more and more value to the world. And if you just lead in that manner without hitting people over the head, you'll end up doing a lot of business. But again, it's like the realtor that spends a lot of time building meaningful relationships person, her or his community. Well, you know, you get to a point where, you know, if you've got 200 people in your local community that when asked who's a local realtor that you would recommend, especially with social media today, you know, it's game, set, match for you. Yeah, you don't have to do, uh, ads on buses or whatever. You pretty much can just rely on being a good person in your community and people will send business. I think we're, you know, if you're a member of like a neighborhood or a community B2B Facebook group, you genuinely see, oh, who knows a good landscaper? Who needs a good plumber? And there's usually those people that get called out a lot. That's kind of who you want to be. You want to get called out a lot as that top of mind. You know what? Josh is pretty good when it comes to helping out with B2B sales and, you know, and trying to come up with better solutions to lead generation. I hope I'm that person. I get tagged a lot of, like, podcast kind of questions and stuff too, and I'm always happy to help.
Love that. That's so interesting. Josh, what inspires you? What excites you? Why do you wake up excited from bed to get to work?
Well, again, it's meeting new people. I know I come across as fairly extroverted, but truth be told, I do thrive on, again, quiet one-on-one relationships, just doing something for somebody where afterwards they say, thank you so much for that. Like, it feels good. That's exciting. So, I'll look at my schedule and I say, this is great. I've got 3 interviews today with 3 amazing leaders. I've looked at their website. I'm like, wow, they're really smart. I hope I can learn some things from them. And maybe there's some ways that I can provide them value. Well, I know that I'm going to provide them immediate value, but then And, you know, just the curiosity of like, well, you know, what else could we possibly do together? And I'm open to collaborations, partnerships, anything, you know, because again, I love that, that 1 1 11 dynamic.
Yeah, I completely believe in that, especially in B2B. Like, that's so true when you're not dealing with B2C customers and you're only dealing with B2B relationships is everything. I mean, imagine like how, you know, like Nike and Michael Jordan partnership turned out. It's a very good example of, you know, 1 1 11. You know, it's exciting.
Yeah, that was a good example of a B2B2C relationship. So even all of us who are B2C, what I'm sharing with you, listen, you probably still have a Dream 100. And so therefore we're all kind of B2B. If you're in business, you're B2B in some way, right? Even if your primary audience is C, the B's will help you get to way more C's because chances are they've already pre-congregated a lot of your potential C's. Out there. I love the— like I said, I love the behind-the-scenes quiet conversations because those collaborations just make life so much easier. Like with Savings Angel, we paid out over $1 million in commissions to partners because, you know, it was just easier to, you know, pay them, pay my friends, and have them, you know, partner with me in a way that was super win-win.
Yeah, you can't go wrong when you have enough partners referring you. Unless you're shedding your payment gateway to collect cash, you can't really go wrong. That was really helpful, Josh. Really, really stoked. Thank you so much for the value you're giving here. And how can our audience connect with you if they want some help? If they want some help in building a better business, doing better lead generation?
Yeah. Well, listen, as I mentioned, two things. I'm always looking for great podcast guests. If you're in the B2B world, you say you're a coach, consultant, or agency owner, I would— I've done over 2,000 episodes for my own podcast, The Thoughtful Entrepreneur. I mean, as long as you're doing 6 figures— yeah, I've been at it for a while. But, you know, as long as you're doing 6 figures in business or beyond, listen, we'd love to have you. So, again, what you do is here's how you get there, right? So, you can— because we'll just have you fill out a guest application and my team will take really good care of you. But you just go to this website.
Website.
It is www.upmyinfluence.com. Upmyinfluence.com. Click on podcast and you'll see a little button that says, yep, we're looking for guests, and then you can go there. Now that's number one. If you're not quite at that level or you're curious about some of the concepts I've talked about, um, I, I haven't shared a lot of like sourced data. Like I have a lot of the data that backs this up. So if you're interested in the research on a lot of these concepts, um, you can watch watch. Um, I've got a longer form, it's called my Attraction Mastery Workshop. I don't need your email address, I don't need it, you're cool. Like, you can watch this, um, and, uh, again, it's that same website, upmyinfluence.com, and in the upper right-hand corner you'll see a button where you could— it allows you to watch the Attraction Mastery Workshop. It's free, I don't need your email, I don't need— you don't need to opt in for anything, just watch and learn. Um, I guarantee you're going to learn a few ideas, especially if lead gen, that term is something that's concerned you, I'm going to share a lot of data about the status of the lead gen space right now. I work with a lot of very, very good VPs of sales for successful companies. So a lot of what I'm sharing has been shared with me from a lot of these great leaders out there. The world has changed quite a bit in that world. So I hope to inspire you with some great ideas. And yeah, certainly if you want, if there's opportunity for us, listen, I give, you know, we have our— if you're curious about what I sell, right, our platform starts at $497 a month, and I can help, you know, I can help fill your schedule for the rest of your life. It's a pretty simple process. It's the Make Friends button, you know, all the way up to higher ticket engagements too. But quite honestly, I think most people don't need that. I'm happy to help however that looks. Nick, thank you so much, man. It's been a great pleasure being here and being able to help some good folks.
Absolutely, Josh. That was definitely transformational. And you have given away a lot of value and you really walk the talk, which you just shared about, which is, you know, being a go-giver first, you know, before you ask for it and you're not even asking for it, you just get it. That's what I love about, you know, the approach you have, Josh. Any last words for us to conclude the whole show?
Yeah. Go buy this book right now. If you haven't read The Go-Giver, go read The Go-Giver. That's, you know, a hat tip to my friend Bob Burg, who I'm just— has just completely transformed my life. But, but, but that is it. You know, certainly also to someone who has spent this long listening to this presentation, you're still with us right now. You are a special person. Not everyone does what you do. So to you that has stuck around this long, I want to assure you, you were in the right room. You're doing the right activity right now. You are learning from people who have been there, done that. It's much more painful and it takes far longer to learn a lot of these things by yourself, right? It's, you know, you know, people that get their nose bloodied for years and years and years because they just keep trying new tactics. It's far better to spend that time and work on yourself. You know, when I was talking about ChatGPT, it's mostly about strategies, mostly about personal development. It's mostly about solving big problems and big ideas and big thoughts and mind mapping and that sort of thing. So again, I want to celebrate our friend that's been listening to this long. You're, you're doing the right activity. You know, we all stand on the shoulders of giants, myself included. And everything I'm repeating, everything I'm sharing is something that I've learned from someone else. So I just want to commend our friend that's been listening. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep learning from masters. And you truly will start to get the same sorts of results that they have gotten just simply by applying modeling knowledge. Nick, again, thank you so much for having having me.
Yeah, absolutely, Josh. That was a great closing. I would, I would definitely agree with what you said. I genuinely believe learning from other people's mistakes is probably the easiest way to avoid a lot of mistakes and don't get punched in the face a couple million times while you're trying to make your business work out. And luckily I was able to start my show and learn from hundreds of millionaires to, to become one of them in the process. So it's, this podcast is literally like a documented proof that anybody can learn the information and execute And like, again, one thing, one quite advice I would really want everybody to do is don't let this podcast be a motivational talk show in your journey. Josh has given so many actionable steps. If you didn't understand, go back, re-listen, take notes. He has given very actionable steps. Please go execute after finishing this podcast. Just do 5 things. Don't, don't, don't create a 50-page to-do list and never touching it. Don't do that. Don't just dump in a document which you won't probably open And again, just write down 5 things you're going to do from this podcast and like do it, commit to do this end of the week. And that way you could actually get an outcome from this podcast, not just motivation. And Josh, thank you so much for being an amazing guest. Thank you so much for opening up a lot of eyes for B2B businesses that yes, relationship actually works. Yes, giving away actually works. Yes, being genuine actually pays off in the longer run. And yes, you need to think in long term to make a business successful. And that scarcity mindset will only keep you out of business the more you think about worried the far you're going to get out of business very quickly. So I'm stoked for you. Thank you so much, Josh. Once again, appreciate your time today. And guys, hope you enjoyed the podcast. I'll be back with another amazing guest just like Josh on this D-Nichols Show. Share this with your friends who are in the B2B space, agency coaches and whatnot. And if you need some help, go check out upmindfilms.com to get some help from Josh and his team. Looks like they have pretty dialed-in systems. So thank you so much, Josh. And thank you for listening, everybody. Appreciate your time.
Josh.
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