Scaling High Ticket Businesses With Remote Sales Team, Sales Strategies - ft. Mukul Jain | TNS 23

connected us was long-term, long-term big picture. So the, the flip side of everything what was happening in the past, and that kind of gave me fuel that, you know, it's that I have a support system here. I'm working with an entrepreneur who's a really good marketer, and there was so much volume that he told me the first day, hey, can you hire 4 or 5 guys along with you? right? And that's the time when I figured out, okay, I can start that. Now going into technicality, it was— I had to put a name to it, Sail the Sail. So sailing the sail means just sailing. It gives a picture of sailing into a blue ocean, and that was my only takeaway on this starting a company. And since then, I— since today, I still don't chase money. In fact, my profits are sometimes I'm 100% invested in the improvement of my company and the team itself, and that's where I feel more fulfilled. Money is of course a side product, but I get a whole lot of time now doing what I do really good. That's it. So that started in March, so almost 2 years ago.

Excited, man. That's awesome. Like, you know, you guys, That's really true. Like every entrepreneur who starts a business, when they have some sort of hungry for money, like they really see some downfall, but now you actually changing your business model to actually reinvest in the whole thing and actually having an impact on your team and on your clients. Now you're actually hitting your business with two comma clubs and cool stuff. So Sumit, like, would you like to mention, like, how did you actually got started with Mukul and what was your journey so far?

I mean, Mukul just reached out. If someone is looking, he wanted to get his website done. And then, uh, we started working on the website. Website was very shabbily done. I mean, we realized that there was a full of malware and then eventually we started. And then from a website, we went to funnels. Then I created funnels for Mukul and that's how the entire journey started with Mukul. I mean, uh, Mukul was the— Mukul said that he doesn't want to get into all the tech stuff. So we also, you know, introduced some amount of automations around. You know, his team, how are they tracking numbers. So that was a very big mess. So basically I tried to optimize his processes a little bit.

Awesome, awesome, guys. That's super great story of how you started the sales. The sale— I know you're selling every business, right? That's awesome. And like, there is the next question. Let's get into like more kind of sales stuff because you, you guys are experts at selling stuff, right? So like, Mukul, can you explain, like, you started with outbound sales with Kevin David, the 2ComX guy. So would you mind mentioning your two cents on what is the main difference between inbound sales and outbound sales? Like which one is easier, which one is the right way to close both of them?

Sure, I'll take that one. In simple language, inbound is client is scheduling a call or he is incoming, he's approaching or she's approaching you. The medium could be in person or could be an app or it could be Zoom, a Zoom call, sorry. Medium could be in person, text messaging, sorry, in-person text messaging, calling over, you know, VoIP. Those are some of the ways where inbounds come to you. Like they clicked on something and they come to you. They are like, so the interest level over there is very high, right? But that is not necessarily the only parameter of the quality of the lead. On the other hand, Outbound, you are actively, you know, think of yourself holding a mic and you are promoting your message through marketing and reaching out to everyone. So outbound is you are reaching out to the client, right? So a simple example is, let's say you want to buy a car or in simple way, I think the most common example here is mortgage. You are buying a house and you want to have a mortgage, right? You're shopping for a mortgage. One is the company can provide you a link where you can schedule a call, right? You can schedule a call, you show up on the Zoom, the company doesn't have to do anything, the closer doesn't have to do much, right? Except maybe sending in pre-automated messages. That's also automated, so nothing much. On the outbound side, you leave your information and you immediately get a call, or you get a call in 24 hours, within 24 hours. So that's a major difference between inbound and outbound. Personally, I think there is downside in inbound compared to outbound because inbound, you are betting your time. You're putting your time, your limited hours in sales. If the leads are, if the lead flow is not good, if the lead flow is, you don't know, there's more I believe there is more relaxation on the inbound side and you think that it is more easier, but truly I've seen more frustrated closers on the inbound because they have to face with the no-show rate and, you know, they have back-to-back calls after 30 minutes, 30 minutes, and the no-show rate catches up to them. But the outbound, you have everything in control. You are the one calling, you are the one setting up your time, you are the one making sure that, you know, I do these many, I do these many, you know, outreach. So that's a major upside in outbound is the control over your time. Inbound, you, your calendar gets scheduled, all these calls, and they don't show up. Guess what? You just wasted 30 minutes or 45 minutes out of your calendar. So personally, I started my career with outbound. I still like outbound, you know, Outbound is more of a sales personality too, right? Hustle, hustling all the time. And but outbound has the downside of wearing out. So they both have, you know, upside, downside. You gotta figure out what works for you.

Absolutely. And this is like, you know, one of the very different things I've ever heard. Like a lot of people say inbound is the way to go, but as a closer, like in the closer's perspective, all Outbound is where you have more control on your entity, right? You have more control on the time you spend, you have more control on the people you need to choose to call, right? But inbound is more like paid where you have people who book a call but don't show up. That makes a lot of sense. And like one person question, Mukul, like, do you think the outbound sales, like this cold calling, cold outreach, do you think this still works in 2021? That's a tough question. Maybe—

no, it's not tough. I, I'm, I'm finding a situation where, you know what, let's keep it as simple. If you are interested in purchasing a bike and somebody calls you, let's say you go on a platform and you want to buy a bike and somebody calls you out of the blue, hey, I saw Nikhil that you posted your information, is it still a good time for us to chat? You're wanting somebody to reach out to you if you really want to buy it or even if you are curious. So I don't see that on a— on like— like what? I don't know why you say that it's 2021 or not. I think what you're referring to is people getting— people getting scammed out of these cold calling for different reasons. But if somebody reached out, like, for example, if I'm shopping, my— if I'm refinancing my mortgage and I go on Costco.com, Costco Mortgage, it has partnered with 7 to 8, you know, mortgage lenders, and I want to get the best quote. So they're all giving me a call, and then later on I cannot take 2 calls at a moment, so I have to take one call, you know, one by one call. So it kind of helps when the business is showing interest in helping you out. Now again, it can happen both inbound and outbound. If the legitimacy of the business is not good, then it can hurt you. But it's not gonna go away. Customers, especially in US, it's a very consumer market, right? Um, yeah, I don't see it going, man.

That's awesome. But easy, like, industry experts have named, like, you know what, like, how one is it working? So that was my question so, so far. But yeah, no worries. Thank you so much for answering. Let's get into the next question. Like, what do you think, like, you know, what are the main advantages of having a remote sales team?

So like, Sumit, you want to take this one?

You would love to maybe.

No, but the thing is, I know the way the biggest advantage of having a remote sales team is scalability. I mean, you know, when he's sitting in the US, he's able to get access to markets of Mexico. He's able to access the markets of India, markets of Europe, and markets of US as well. The biggest advantage which I feel, uh, with, you know, remote sales team— I mean, people say it's cost. I don't think so, it's cost. It's about scalability. Because the hunger that you get, you know, from the people in Mexico, people in India, people in Philippines— perhaps you don't get that kind of same hunger for success from, you know, people perhaps in US. And that's what Mukul has capitalized very, really, really, really well. His remote remote sales team is not about having, you know, like saving cost. His remote sales team is having the scalability and the correct talent. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Mukul.

No, man, you're absolutely right.

Absolutely. So I really see that a lot of people who wants to scale up their business, they really had a lot of people offline, or, you know, put them into like a simple chamber in their office and they spend a lot of money in there, but they don't get any results. And I see like it will become more asset light when you have a remote sales team and it's highly scalable, as I just mentioned, guys. So Mukul, let's get into the next question. Sumit and Mukul, like what do you think is the best way to handle objections on sales calls? You know, like most common objections.

I think the most common objection which you will get is the price. If it wasn't the price, it wasn't the price, they would go and purchase themselves, but they want to trust you. They want to be sold. They want to buy. Not sold, right?

Exactly.

So that's the—

I just want to add one more point here. Sorry, Mukul. When Mukul says price, it's not just the price for high-ticket items, you know. Like, even if you have to sell something which is of $200 and you have to sell something of $5,000, I think the price objections would always come because price is always related to the value a person gets. And if they are not able to understand the value that they're getting of the price, then, uh, you know, like Mukul always says in his coaching program, if you're able to show the value, then price becomes immaterial.

True.

Yeah, sorry, Mukul, to jump.

No, man, let's do your thing. So price is number one objection. I think that's why, um, that's why we, we, we get on a call. If the price is— typically what I have seen is people who know what they are doing, then for them, the price is not the objection. For them, it's more on the technicality side. And that typically leads to more high-ticket offers. But for low-ticket offers, you are attracting an audience which will, you know, which are crunching through the pricing. So again, the value of the product should appeal, the offer should appeal, but Handle objections, I would say best way to handle is to listen.

True that. Yeah, I think that's awesome. A lot of people on sales calls, they just keep on talking like a duck, but they didn't really listen. But when you carefully listen to the prospect's mentality of where they're actually having some objections, and if you just clear them off, I think they'll be off the fence and ready to purchase. That's awesome, guys. So let's get into the next question. Mukul, as you've already been like backbone of people who already sold multiple 8 figures and stuff like that, Like, what do you think are the most common sales mistakes businesses to avoid right now? Most common sales mistakes every business does.

Well, as a business owner, you know, first of all, if you are not making a sale, that's already a mistake, and you will call yourself a business. That's not true, right? Because sales drive everything, and sales is driven by people knowing, people trusting you, and people have certainty to buy, right? Now, sales mistakes to avoid as a business owner. Now we are seeing it from a business owner perspective. Let's say, Nikhil, you own a, you own a product and you you're a business owner, you got the marketing going but the sales are not happening. So, and, and, you know, Sumit is expert in that, let's say, especially when you are having a workflow. Okay, I'm gonna put ads on Facebook, it's gonna be a call funnel, and the call funnel is, is gonna generate me revenue. I hired closers for that, remote closers. So if the, if the Call is if, you know, you're getting the calls, but if you are not able to close, then something is— there are two things over there, either your offer or the salesperson. There are two things over there. But if you are, you know, if you are not getting the calls, then it's your marketing. So the mistakes which you're saying to avoid as a business owner, it could be It could be very, you know, dynamic, uh, depending upon where you are in that, in that workflow of marketing and sales, right? Then the tracking parameters, um, you, you could have the best product, but if you're targeting an incorrect audience, then it's not gonna do any good. So I personally believe that, um, sales mistake to avoid as a business owner is to do a lot of testing. And that's where, you know, I, I think one of the guys, Dean Graziosi, he does a lot of testing. A big example of this are Amazon and Netflix. You know, Amazon has, uh, Netflix has more content which is not watched than the content which is watched. So that means Netflix is collecting that data, what is being watched, and they're taking that data as their direction towards what they want to create content for people living in India, for people living in Ireland, for people living in US. And that's what I meant by testing. So one of the biggest mistakes you can do while you're in is be complacent about your mindset and Wanna do things according to how you want and not what the client wants.

So it will be a narrow-minded mentality. Yeah, absolutely. Any take on your side, Sumit?

I mean, Mukul nailed it, you know, when he says that it's about the audience and testing about the audience. That is absolutely true. If you can't test your audience, you know, you can't basically find the buyers. And if you can't find the exact buyers, there is no point of having the sales.

Exactly, and it really costs a lot to acquire non-buyers, right, than buyers actually.

Exactly, it really costs a lot to acquire even a single buyer.

Absolutely, and I'm curious to know, like this question was on demand, like Mukul and Sumit, like what is your go-to strategies to acquire clients for your clients and yourself? Like is that Facebook ads, is that cold calling, outreach, cold email? Or SMS marketing? Like, how does that look like?

He didn't have to do any such kind of things. It's so much on his efforts and word-of-mouth marketing. He gets clients. And I mean, right now, touchwood, Sales The Sale is at a situation where we are getting leads on a constant basis. And we are, you know, seeing which client should we be onboarding and which client should we not be onboarding.

Exactly. Yeah, that's awesome.

So we don't do any kind of Facebook ad, we don't do any kind of— I mean, we just do social media posting. That's all we do. Uh, that's— I don't think so we do anything else apart from social media postings. No.

That's awesome, guys. And you know, like, I think it's the core offer, the value which you're providing to a business owner, which is driving your business to scale it to the next level, truly, right?

That's awesome.

So let's get into the next question, guys, and this would be super awesome. Like, what kind of tools— and you have a lot of stuff on table, a lot of clients, their appointments, your sales team— you need a lot of systems and processes to align everything on a straight line, right? And if you don't have that, you know, it will be rolling around and it will really create a big mess, right? So what kind of tools, systems, processes you have in a straight line, uh, to maintain everything? Like, keep it more simple. Like, how does that look like?

Please take it, Sumit.

I mean, you know, in the initial time we were just focused on Google Sheets and that was also very ad hoc. So the first thing we did was we actually created streamlined Google Sheets wherein we used to record the leads of an individual client. I mean, it was kind of a mini CRM system that we did based on Google Sheets wherein each and every customer leads were captured and they were assigned to the, you know, the closers, and the closers used to, you know, record their meeting with each and every lead, and they used to write down the comments. The simple factor being, if they would have comments, you know, in front of them, they would be able to look at the comments later on. Then, uh, the biggest problem of this was, you know, like, if you look at a sales organization, closers like to close sales, they don't like to report sales, you know, like, they want— so the biggest pain point at the end of the month for us was to get the legitimate sales from each and every closer so that, you know, we can pay them fairly. I mean, we used to know the overall sales number, so, you know, we would, we would be getting commissions from our clients, but how do we pay to individual clients? So that was the next phase. And for that, you know, we have implemented a system such as Pipedrive now. So Pipedrive is a CRM solution. What happens in Pipedrive is that each time a deal is won, it gets a— I mean, Pipedrive basically knows about it, and then it notifies, okay, you know, that the deal is won, this is the price point at which it is converted, this is the close that he has done. So journey, you know, like it has not happened overnight. I mean, it's been 2 years, uh, since, uh, you know, like Moogle started out Sales as Sale, and it's been actually 1 year since the time we have had productivity systems in place. And I'm sure this is going to change again, but it's just a journey. We started out with, you know, Google Sheets. Now we are moving towards the CRM solution. That's how it is moving.

That's awesome. And do you have any specific tools which you use to take your productivity to the next level, manage your tasks and stuff like that? There are—

we use this, you know, productivity tools like Trello, wherein we can look at the tasks. We also have— I mean, for communication, we use Slack right now. That's all, you know, like, we— I won't say that we are perfectly managed.

So, all you need is your social media profile or handles, wherever it is, and Calendly and Zoom. Slack to make money. Obviously you need a bank account too where you're going to deposit it. That's all you need to, to actually simplify things, right? And they're free, free tools.

Exactly, exactly. So people really try to complicate the stuff and you made it as simple as that, you know, having a platform to connect with your clients, getting them on a calendar, use a calendar to actually book them and have a Zoom to hop on and a bank account to accept the payments. And there you go, you made a sale, right? Absolutely. And let's get into the next question question, guys, like, how does you both of you guys' daily routine looks like? You know, you're doing big business, you have a team to manage, clients and all of this stuff, right? So do you have any strict routines or how does that look like?

Go for it, Sumit, because you have a better routine than me.

Mughal is a very big health freak. I don't know whether you know it or not, but Mughal is, uh, ex-US Army. So, and you know, being from an ex-US Army, he has a very, very strict routine. Like, he wakes up in the morning, he goes for running. I am not that much into routines and all that stuff. But Mukul is the one who is the perfect to tell you what exactly is the daily routine for success.

First of all, let me be— let me simplify this. It's a daily routine for my inner satisfaction even if I do not make money that day. That means the success part of things are only, you know, um, they're, they're, they're seen from the material perspective. And obviously this question is also driven from that. I understand that part. But I personally suggest that even if you are not a business owner, you, if you do something which is pushing you or challenging you from a physical level or from the mental level perspective, it's going to make you feel accomplished. And when you feel a bit accomplished by, by, you know, solving that puzzle, solving, you know, going, taking the challenge head on, It gives you the confidence. So things which work— works for me very well as a single guy now and married is, first off, uh, you know, scheduling time for stillness. I don't need the social media, I don't need anything, just stillness. And I observe that stillness in the form of meditation. We are all from India, so we could figure that out part— figure that part out. Uh, number 2 reading a book without touching, uh, any, any sort of like, uh, gadgets around. So currently I'm reading Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. And, um, I, I believe working out, uh, not only makes my mind clear, but it keeps me healthy too. It keeps me— because seeing my, uh, hereditary, you know, where I come from, an inheritance, there is high chances of different heart diseases. So I like to ensure that, um, because I know one thing for sure, that I can make money, uh, but one thing which is not under my control is how much time do I have, uh, but these are the things which you can, uh, fuel in a way where, um, a fuel in a way where, you know, working out, keeping a healthy lifestyle, um, shutting down the people who are— when I say shutting down is that means Keeping a perspective that some people who, who will come in your life will not work. That's inevitable. You can't avoid that. It's not going to work. So keeping, you know, safe, you're keeping yourself safe from that environment or those conversations. Right. Another thing is if you have a family, I'm going to tell you one thing, and these are my perceptions. These are the things which are big on my list, how I do things. Is towards the end nobody else will, but your family will be there. So these are some of the sure things which I have captured in my life through my experiences. And you being in US Army has given me, uh, an understanding of discipline. What does it do to you? It doesn't do— it doesn't make you arrogant, or it doesn't make you— it does— it makes you feel, um When, when I see a disciplined person, my respect, you know, is it shoots up for them because one is they are following something which is very hard for every person, individual, a regular human to do on daily basis, right? Until unless they are forced to do. For example, you are forced to go to 9 to 5 to pay the bills, but if you are doing something on your own, um, like, you know, scheduling time for, for, for doing something which will make your— which will keep you mentally and physically healthy It, you know, I, I feel that they, they had— they perform better, uh, they talk better, they have a high sense of, uh, understanding of, of, of themselves. The self-awareness kicks in for themselves. So, uh, I, I personally feel with or without the factor of success, I, I believe you should have a routine where you are giving time to yourself, which is giving you, um, a direction to— which is improving your physical and mental health.

True. And, and I love the sentence where you just mentioned, you know, like, I know how much money I can make, but I have no control on how long I can be right. Like, that's a life-changing sentence. Like, if someone can really understand the depth in that, they'll be definitely having a good routine for themselves, for sure, buddy. That's awesome. Thank you so much for this. And I had a great takeaway from that. And, uh, let's get into the next question, guys. So like, what would be your suggestion for a 20-year-old you or someone who is getting started out right now?

Take it, Sumit, take it, man.

Get started. That's all. Get started. You know, like the sooner, the sooner you start, the sooner you fail or sooner you succeed is the only thing. I mean, I, when me and Mukul, uh, so me and Mukul, you know, our school buddies, we used to go to school together and, you know, we had time to discuss. Uh, like, what would have happened if you were 20-year-old? We just say that at 20-year-old, we were more interested in chasing girls as opposed to thinking about businesses. So the biggest advice would be get started. That's it. Nothing stops you. Nothing stops you at 20-year-old. Just your own mindset stops you.

Exactly. How about you, Mukul? Any, anything on that?

Yeah, um, a 20-year-old should do their 20-year-old thing. Um, I, I believe at 20 years old I carried a lot of responsibility, and that was my fate, so I can't avoid that. So I had to learn different ways to do things on my own at 20 years old, right? Like, in India, at least you're 25, 23, you stay with your family, you know, you nurture with them, you grow a family with them. It's, it's our culture. I was in a situation where I, I had to think about the next month by myself. Not that my family wouldn't support if I live with them. I chose to travel to the United States to pursue something bigger than myself, right? What, what's out there? So a 20-year-old should do the 20-year-old things, which I, I don't know, like someone said, chase girls. I don't know what, where it totally is. There is no right and wrong answer to that. But what a 20-year-old should not do is, is get into the mindset that making money is, um, is the only way to feel successful, is to get into certain difficult habits which will be far which will be hard to, you know, get rid of. Like, I used to be a smoker at 20 years old, so that, that has taken away some, some sort of my, my, you know, uh, healthy well-being. What I should think 20-year-old is, uh, first of all, as a 20-year-old, I used to think my life is over at 30. Okay, um, and at 20 years old, I really wanted to make a million dollars because I joined an MLM which promoted only million dollars. Well, they were promoting a message of freedom, right? So that kind of drove my decisions. I personally feel a 20-year-old now these days, they come under a lot of pressure, you know, uh, what primarily because before there was a pressure, it was also an environment given to them. That means the competition was low, there was less distractions, uh, no technicality. Life was simple back, back in the day, early 2000s. Now we are talking a 20-year-old having to deal with the family pressure, having to deal with the peer pressure, having to deal looking good on Instagram, making sure they're making good TikTok videos or reels or whatever it is. And then they expect themselves to become an entrepreneur too. I'm not saying that many people are not doing— I see a lot of Instagram accounts, they're promoting, you know, a different brand. So do your thing. But what I feel is A 20-year-old should not think about things which— should not take decisions which can make them insecure, which can make them unhealthy. Because truly, I feel the more you get older, the outside stops getting— the outside world is less and inside world is more, right?

True.

What a 20-year-old can do— if I was 20 years old right now at this moment, which is like 12 years ago, I would not change a thing what I have because that— I, I would wake up at 6 in the morning, take a bus, travel at, uh, in a, in a, you know, negative 15-20 degrees Celsius weather, go to my class, wash dishes, come back home, do my lunch for $2, whatever $2 can buy, go back to class again, then finish my shift and come back. That kind of built a character inside me. As, as a 20-year-old, right? Nobody asked me to do that. I thought a different picture watching American Pie about America, but this is a whole different picture. But that gave me a character and perspective on, on, you know, on what are the things. So what are the things looking— so, uh, what are the things in the future lined up for me, right? So a 20-year-old should really think about one thing. If I tell you is, if takeaway is Be frugal. Be frugal in— because truly, um, money is gonna make your decisions very easy. It's gonna provide you options. It's gonna make your life comfortable. But ultimately, you're gonna seek happiness in a way where— how can I be— how can I— there's like a constant pressure and in my— on my shoulders, there's a constant thing which is making me chase something. I don't know what that is. And as a 20-year-old, your testosterone level is too high. Everything is high. And you don't— you know, it kind of builds up that pressure inside you. And that's where I feel that, you know, a 20-year-old, um, should, should not think about, uh, all the, all the money part aspect of it, if that's a driven part. They should really think about what is the long-term thing which is going to make me happy. Which is going to provide me independence, the freedom. They should optimize their life for freedom. So when I say frugal, that means, um, find a way to save a lot of money. And not only save, learn how money makes money, because that's gonna give you a true freedom. Think of $1 as your employee and how that $1 is going to work, and multiply by thousands, ten thousands over the period of time. How, how much independence that will provide you. The problem is a 20-year-old doesn't have a perspective of a 35-year-old, or, and that, or they think that life is over at 30. I'm old now, but personally my life actually started at 31. At 31, I was still in negative $26K debt when I moved from Boston to Atlanta, and I was, I would, I started all over again. Because of my stupid business decisions, which I did, right? So my understanding is more for, uh, for a long-term picture. And if my only suggestion would be is go through experiences of being— fail a lot, but do not, uh, do not make yourself insecure. Do not make your— do not put yourself in a situation that hurts you As you have a lot of energy at this age, a lot of testosterone, um, experience a lot, fail a lot, travel a lot because you have too much energy. But I would say save as much as you can and let that savings go into investment, uh, which, which is gonna give you an insight that money makes money.

True. And that's all in a nutshell. That's awesome. Like, I believe like what you exactly mentioned is true. Like A 20-year-old, the person who actually tried to build their character of how they want to be, right? Like build a long-term vision of what they should be actually working on, shouldn't get attracted to the negative stuff. It doesn't really matter on a long-term and, you know, squeezes all the energy from us, right? And I believe like a lot of people, especially right now, they don't have financial literacy because they're drawn to this new Instagram thingy, the Guccis and all this Lamborghini stuff, which doesn't matter when you're actually getting older, right? So you should be thinking in a wealthy mindset. And hopefully, like, everyone will learn from this session and they will actually start, like, you know, learning about more wealth, how business works, and what they are really driven to and work on themselves, right? So let's get into the next question.

To give you, to give you one more perspective, at 20 years old, I wanted a million dollars and a Lamborghini. Today I can afford a Lamborghini and wear anything which I want, but I chose not to because I understand that whatever I have built, I'm gonna lose it. I'm not gonna— so I want to learn how to maintain buying Lamborghini every year. So I have 10 years worth of Lamborghini I can buy every year, and I take my risk just buying one and keep, keep it as is. So, uh, problem is people— as a 20-year-old, you will learn, but take this, um, making money is the stupidest thing in the world. Anybody can make money. Keeping is not true.

It's not about the revenue, it's about the net profit, how much you're actually saving it, right? How much you're actually reinvesting it into a place where it actually grows and gives you the real financial freedom, right? And it's not about the Lamborghini which you can buy right now, it's about the Bugatti which you can afford 5 years down the line, right? And again, it's not buying a Bugatti, it's just having the money sort of as an investment which can grow, right? Absolutely, that's awesome. Let's get to the next question. Like, so far you've done so many big things, you know, made a couple of million dollars for your clients and yourself and all of the teams you're working with. And what do you think are the biggest achievements so far for both of you guys, and any next bigger goals?

Sumit, go for it, brother.

I, I mean, for me, my life's biggest achievements would be to have a, you know, a good family life. And my bigger goal would be, you know, to provide for my children so that they're well taken care of. That would be my life's biggest achievement, bigger goal. I mean, money achievements, you know, they come and go, but I believe, you know, family life is something that has to stay there.

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much, Sumit, on that. How about you, Mukul? Any bigger achievements and bigger goals? How does that look like to you?

I, I think if I open up a suitcase of mine, it's gonna pop up achievements of things which I could never think of or imagined. It just happened that my adverse situations got me to that point that these are the opportunities and they became achievements. So for example, coming to United States, right, not going into Delhi College of Engineering and not going into different colleges in India gave me an opportunity that I can come to United States. So that, that's where it started for me. It may not be a big deal for many, but it became a big deal for me from where I was at that time. Then getting into United States Army, um, I think I, I— that will always stay with me. Just going into there and working your ass off for 14 hours every day, physically and mentally, it takes a toll on you, but it pushes. It gave me a direction. It gave me so much direction that it can— it's an asset for me. Um, so go— getting into that. And the number 3 decision I would say is getting married. Getting married to the person opposite to me because that's exactly what I needed. Um, so those are the biggest achievements because the rest of the things are side products, like the money, the house, the everything else, the travel. Uh, they are the side products of, um, of those decisions, the, the high-level decisions I, I think I made. Um, any bigger goal next? Yeah, I do, I do have, um, I do have big goals. Um, I do want to, um, I, I think my clarity will come more, but at this point, if I feel, if I say I do want to, uh, take the responsibility of running at least 1,000 households, um, which I can do it, uh, that means I want to employ at least 1,000 people. Um, for my company. So that's, that's the bigger goal which I could think of, um, that's gonna give— that's gonna be put— that's gonna put me in a situation where, um, I, I'm always doing something which I enjoy, which is helping people, you know, making sure these young guns are being mentored and nurtured. And it's not a big goal, but it's something which will make me happy. Is open up a restaurant, is serving people from my perspective, from my thinking of taste. And that's, that's, that's another thing which I could think of.

That's awesome, buddy. Like, you have great purpose to be on, and I think it will be great impact on your team and your clients and all the people that indirectly will be impacting 10,000 people while you're actually employing 1,000 people. and hopefully you'll achieve it super quickly and effectively and for a longer term. Let's get into the next question. Uh, like you have been, you have been doing a lot of stuff, multiple businesses, both of you guys done a lot of stuff so far, right? So what was like both of yours biggest mistakes so far in your life business-wise?

Sumit, when I started our business initially, I relied on a lot of people to be responsible for my success. I mean, it's always, you know, important to rely on other people, but you should also have a control over your own business. The biggest mistake I would have thought, you know, like in my business life is, I mean, in all my failed ventures, the one thing that has always come across is I did not own up to my own success. I was, you know, all, I always thought, you know, like, okay, if I partner with this guy, I'll be successful. If I partner with this guy, I'll be successful. Uh, I mean, For me, business was success was okay. You know, like I should be having right partners, but what I did not follow through is okay, having right partners is fine, but having yourself invested in a much, in a much more better manner than your partner, your business partner is far more important. And that's what I have done, you know, like in my current business, I do rely on my partners, but I also own up. I also own up that the responsibility of success is more mine than my partner's.

Oh man, and I believe everyone has that kind of situation. They, when things doesn't go well, you know, they just try to push like, oh, blaming someone else and, you know, trying to say I didn't have that, I didn't have this. Like, they're like, that mindset shift can really take us to another level like where you are right now. And Mukul, what's your take on that? What was your biggest mistake in life?

I think biggest mistake have in my life has been listening to one of the other people, and that, that's the only one I could think of, is listening to other people. Well, let me give you a perspective here. It's not always bad to listen to other people. So for example, uh, I, I was, I was, uh We, we, I was, you know, we, we had a, we had some sort of occasion at my home back in 2005, right? And, uh, my best friend comes in. He made it to Delhi College of Engineering, and, you know, I didn't. And I was like screaming my mind, what should I do, what should I do? And he suddenly comes through and he said that there was an advertisement, go to United States. And he's like this is the best for you. You can do it right now, uh, because he gave me a perspective. Look, listen, you're gonna make— because I was driven by money that time, right? So he gave me a perspective that you're gonna make $20,000, $30,000 per month, and after 10 years, maybe $60,000, $70,000 a month in INR. It's like, yeah, he's right. He asked me, is that what you want to do? I'm like, no, man, this is not what I, I don't think in my head or in my heart this, that this is what I desire to do. I want to do big things, so take a chance. The maxim is you're not gonna go to US and stay here, but if you have the same feeling, it's gonna stay for you forever. So I feel that listening to a lot of people was a biggest mistake in my life. For example, I got into a business which I just saw the money aspect of it, didn't see the headache, didn't see the negatives of it, didn't see the environment, didn't see, uh, anything else, right? Another one would be keeping up with the Joneses, for example, trying to compete with others and on your upkeep and trying to find out how are you doing well against others. So those are the things which were, I think, instilled as we grow— grew up, and we were in that situation. So Not necessarily we could avoid hearing it as a kid or avoid hearing it in that environment, but implementing it, yes, that's the— that, that was the big mistake. So I felt that those are untrue, uh, but a lot of things which I have listened to the people whom I, uh, let me give you a short understanding of this. I listen to few people I, by listening, I say not through podcasts, although I listen to podcasts, but not necessarily I absorb everything and implement. I talk to people actively over the phone who are there where I want to be, whether it could be financially, whether it could be something in business, right? But a lot of people, a lot of outside influence which I used to follow, for example, somebody to follow on, somebody to, you know, think about, somebody who is a motivating speaker, somebody who is buying a Lambo. I think I've learned to avoid that a lot more, to shut it down in a way where this doesn't imply to me anymore. So the biggest mistake in my life was listening to the people who were right in their perspective, and I made their perspective as my perspective and made my story That was my biggest mistake.

That's awesome. And I think that would be a great takeaway for every person who's actually, you know, listening to every single person and being in a shiny object syndrome of jumping things from one to another, right? And a lot of people are still stuck in that situation. They always just look at someone else's perspective. Like if something is working for them, they just run out and try that stuff. If that doesn't work, then they just listen to someone else. But that's a, that's a complete circle, you know, it's on automation and it never stops until you stop listening to someone else and be on your own thing. That's awesome, guys. Thank you. And it ha—

and, and it happens because you don't believe in yourself. Like Sumit said, you know, uh, you need partners to do something big, uh, which on a technical level can be true. Um, but I personally see— feel strongly is if it's up to be, it's going to be on me, not anybody else, not anybody else. So the good and the bad. Like, I take time to actively learn about my investment strategy, my business strategy, what I'm good at. I actively like to just find out what is going to work for me. And, you know, so now I'm increasing odds to, to, to, to put myself in a spot where I can be majorly happy, successful, and satisfied. Um, to, to give you another perspective is I used to think a million dollars I want to make. It's still a goal for— it's still a goal, but it's not my life anymore. Okay, that means, uh, if I can do even half of it, which I did last year it will put me in a situation where I do not have a money problem. So that means I can always avoid the, the fact that I want to make a million dollars, because that's not the answer for me. My answer is I constantly get better, I constantly make good decisions on daily basis, and I have a framework to follow which typically applies in my investment strategy.

That's awesome, guys. That's awesome. And both of you guys are amazing, and your mistakes can actually help a lot of people to avoid them. And maybe it's costing them a million dollars if they wouldn't hear this, who knows. But that's awesome, guys. So let's get into the next question, guys. You've done so much so far. Like, I believe, like, do you have any people who inspired you to do this? Any key people involved in your success, in your business-wise?

Um, Mokul inspired me.

Oh man, wow. Well, thank you.

You're a great inspiration, man. You definitely would have inspired your partner for sure.

No, he definitely inspired me. I mean, I, I— you can listen to a lot of people, but I believe, you know, when you have someone, uh, with whom you have grown and, you know, you see them growing, you get inspired more by them. And it may be propelled by jealousy or something like that, whatever people may call it. But I, for me, inspiration was Mukul. Mukul was the one who inspired me. Mukul was the one, you know, who actually helped me understand various aspects of life. So for me, it was Mukul. I'm not so sure who's for Mukul, but for me it was Mukul.

I, I think the constant inspiration. Now when we talk success, the constant inspiration is Uh, it's been my experiences just for success. When you're talking success only, that's it. It's my, it's my experiences, uh, experiences through learning from other people, from my own mistakes. Uh, but to answer your key person involved, it's right now, it's definitely, you know, past from one year, it's Sumit. We, we, we didn't connect, we knew each other from school, but it's a, it's a key person. But I would say, uh, one of the key things which have worked in my life was my father let me do what I want, and that kind of worked in my favor. As I look, my main inspiration for happiness and satisfaction is my wife, my time which I spent with my wife. And the key person involved in everything which makes me want to go every day are the people whom I serve, because they are working very hard. They work very hard to, to feed their families, to manage the bills, to, to have hope. So I personally take the inspiration in such a way that I want to make these guys successful. Whatever their definition is and whatever I can give, it should intersect. And they are the key people involved in, in, in, in, in my own world right now. And it's gonna stay like that because I do enjoy, uh, my source of inspi— I, I look for— I don't look for much source of inspiration. I look for much source of happiness now that I'm 32. Uh, maybe in my 20s I looked more much source of inspiration because I wanted to chase $1 million and ended up negative $26K. Not that everybody could be dumb like me, but hey, uh, I, I'm glad I was dumb because those experiences, they are, they're priceless. Um, yeah, so there are key people involved, like my, like my friends. I never want to talk business with them. I never want to go in business with them. I don't want to talk anything else except, um, eating out because that's, that's the source of my happiness. Um, same goes for my relationship with my wife. Uh, same goes for, uh, my, my family. When it comes to success, I personally believe, um, uh, I, I have a friend whom I call on very regular basis on, hey, what's the— how did you get here? How did you get your investments to do so good, right? And that's a framework I have. And that's, that's basically, it's gonna, uh, only, only dictate the, the money part, part of it. But what I do, how I do, I think Sam is whom you see the name on the, on this plaque, uh, is also has given me a huge understanding of how things work in, in a business world. Right. Uh, he always does do things right. And that those are the, some things which I've picked on and which are going to stay with me. So those are some of the main inspiration, which gets me going every day.

That's awesome, both of you guys. And that really makes sense. And I think like you guys are more on impact, uh, than anything else, and happiness. You're chasing happiness than anything else, and that's great. A lot of people are so hungry for happiness so far. So let's get to the next question. You guys are so awesome, like providing insane amount of value. And I wonder, where can our audience find you mentoring? Do you have any mentorship opportunities, or how does that look like? Can anyone join Sail the Sale platform?

Yes, we are hiring on sale to sale. If you are an accomplished closer, we are always hiring. Uh, we are always scaling up to serve our clients. And to find us, the best way is to, uh, DM Sumit and myself, is to direct message Sumit and myself, um, because my activity on social media is very low. Because my business is all about inside the company rather than the social media, because I— the, the place where I want to be is exactly where I'm at, and let it be. But, um, I think in future, Sumit and I do have some things in mind, maybe in a month or two, where we would come up with, uh, with our own set of, uh, a way to mentor kids who can make right decisions and not necessarily just make the money but keep it too. Um, because in last 2 years, that's what I have learned, is not only how to make sustainable money, uh, but keep it.

Yeah, like a lot of people make money but they don't have the right strategy to keep it. And I've seen people who make a lot of money but they blow it completely off. And even they do multiple 6 figures, in the end of the year they'll be like, oh, where was my money? I'm just left with a couple of grand. Like where's my other money? Which I made, right?

A client who sold his firm for a million dollars, and he tells me that if he does not get to the point where he starts generating $20,000 a month by September, he will be bankrupt. And I'm like shocked. You sold your company for a million dollars and you are at a point wherein if you don't make $20,000 a month in next 6 months you'll be bankrupt. How is that possible? The money all went away. I mean, he sold the— sold his firm for million dollars, but he just lost all the money.

Yeah, it's about the money management again.

Yeah, no, don't say money management, man. It sounds way too complex. Trust me, because all these things, they make people, um— there's almost already so much information load happening in our head. With this social media and news and whatnot. I personally think is, uh, that money is, is very easy to make for anyone, you know, even, even a guy at the top, even a guy at the, at the bottom. Everybody is making money. Even an unemployed person in the United States is making money. So Money management, it sounds very complex. It can become complex in our head, right? I personally suggest the way to look at the money is, um, is, is— this is my take on it— is your own employee working for you. And that, when, when I heard that, so if I put a dollar into my low-cost index funds today, it's going to grow to $50 without me having to do any work in 40 years, right? Now, that's not a lot, right? At this age, it's nothing. But if you multiply that dollar by 100 or 1,000, that's gonna grow to a million plus in less than— first of all, it was 40 years, and now that— now you're putting more, so the compounding will happen faster. For a lot of money in less time. The problem with is— the problem here is people want it now, and people do not have a long-term vision on what are the possibilities after. They think some, you know, I'm gonna lose my youth. Your youth is, is right now happening, and I'm unsure if most of the people are actually utilizing their youth to their maximum potential by going out and experimenting things. They are just wanting to become famous as these new platforms have provided them, or wanting to make money without having a sense of business or without having a sense of how things actually work. So what I've learned in the past year is, uh, is, is money, it makes you money. So if money makes you money and you're already making money, then you can find yourself— there are enough compounding calculators outside where you're going to be in 20, 30, 40 years if you keep doing what you're doing. Well, if you want more, then increase your income and don't disturb the compounding, because the framework works for top dogs and, you know, bottom— for everybody. And by framework, I mean is let your money be automatically invested into low-index index mutual funds, right? So that's, that's what I, I feel is, is, uh, was my takeaway from 2020 is increase your income and let the money go to work for you because it really does.

Absolutely. And I think that like that's the best way to never think of money again, right? When you have the right sort of investment, right, you never need to think of any money. Even though you want to take a leave, that's totally fine because you have some money pumping in every month. Without any trouble, right? So guys, again, that was an awesome interview. Any last word before we conclude the whole session? Sumit, any last words before we conclude the whole session?

I mean, all I'll say is that, you know, keep your focus on the result of not earning money, but on the focus of how you want to serve your clients, and everything will follow. I mean, making a million bucks is not that difficult once you have your, you know, focus on serving your clients very clear.

Find, find people like Sumit.

Your life will be fine.

That's, that's my take. What— that's my last word. Yeah, man, he's been doing great things. He has the right motivation, right mindset, right person to work with.

He's very integrated.

I'm just following you.

So, uh, if you want to get your funnel— if you want to build a good funnel, good understanding of, uh, how things work in a funnel, um, reach out to Sumit.

You want to learn how to, you know, do good sales, reach out to Mukul.

Come on, man, I never think I'm a good salesman. I don't think so. I think I'm a good conversationalist but not a good salesman.

That's when you're running sales, you don't know that you're a good salesman.

That again, that's your perspective. My personally— my personal take on this is I am— I, I think if I were to be a good salesman, um, I can be really good, but I need a different framework. Like, I can be a really good car salesman or a really good real estate agent because that's That's like, you know, you're in person at the moment, but over the phone and over Zoom, I've realized I'm a good conversationalist, and I'm not— I do not even realize that I'm putting my sales techniques or anything in the play, and the sales happen, but I do not realize that. So when, uh, did I really sell that? That's how I feel, but you can call that I do good sales. But a good salesman— go to, um, go to car sales. I, I mean, again, different perspective. They could be obnoxious too, but when it comes to sales, they want to make it happen. They want to like sell you. They will be after you. So that's one of the definitions of good salesman too. And another good salesman could be a listener too, just listening like a therapist. And I think I, I'm on the other side of the things now.

Wow, that's awesome. And guys, like one last question before we conclude the whole session. Like, what do you think is a good percentage of closing, like in inbound and outbound? So like 10%, 20%, like how do you actually rate a closer depending on situation on a larger scale? Because, you know, small numbers doesn't make any sense.

Hey man, I think that's an irrelevant question in Uh, in, in the, in, in my past two experiences, I can give you industry standard in inbound is like 20%. Uh, outbound is less than 5-10%, I would say, uh, somewhere between 5-10%. Um, but that's an irrelevant question. You should really think about, uh, what's my offer? Is it resonating with the audience? Is my audience right? and my closing rate will depend upon, obviously, uh, so if there are— if, if the product is and the offer speaks to your audience, um, you might find your closing ratio to be really high.

True. So like it's a quantity, like it's the quality of the people who you're serving to and the product value which you're providing to them, and that will completely really like, you know, give you the output of the closing rate. And that really makes sense.

It doesn't matter if it's good, it should align It should align. The value of your product should align to the people whom you are selling. And that is a place where you are able to— let's say, let me give you an example, right? Uh, let's say you are, you're trying to, uh, speak to your girlfriend, right? You, you have a girlfriend? Oh, okay. Uh, well, let's say you're trying to speak— anyone who is trying to speak to, uh, to, to, to their girlfriend, new relationship. Right. And would you be better be able to speak at a concert or at a quiet place?

Everyone chooses a quiet place for sure.

At a quiet place, right? It's, it's a no-brainer, right? So my point here is, uh, when the, the closing rate is, is, uh, is, is going to be very dependent upon how you, uh, place yourself in, in the market, your product, your, your offer. And that's in your control. The target audience also is in your control. So your positioning is, is very much dependent upon, uh, your, your, your ultimate closing ratio. Now if it's a call ratio and if you're not a good salesperson, which you realized in for then find a person who is really good at it. I don't know how to build funnels, I don't know the technicality. Sumit is good at it. So don't get hung up on the closing ratio prior. Test your offer, test what your target audience are.

Yeah, like it's about more like the pre-frame which the client has before they hop on a call, which really determines closing rate, right? And that's awesome. And again, Sumit and Mukul, thank you so much for joining. And, and again, thank you so much for amazing opportunity, guys. I really love, excited, and to have you on this interview. Thank you so much for the amazing value, all the learnings. Yeah, absolutely, guys. Excited, excited. And we'll actually probably have another session after a long time. Excited to see you guys doing that impact which you have and hit the goal of having over 1,000 employees in SalesLeads. And everyone who's watching this, hopefully you love the session. I'm actually going to add Mukul and Sumit's links in the comment section so that you can reach out if you have any help, if you need any help with sale-to-sale company and any help with funnels and cool stuff. So stay tuned for the next interview, guys. And this is it so far. Thank you so much, guys. Peace out. Thanks.

Thanks, Nikhil.

Thank you.

Keep doing the good work.

Bye. Have a great day. Thank you so much.