The Future of E-commerce using NEW Hybrid Business Model - Jovan Stojanovic | TNS 06

What's going on? What's going on everyone who is watching this show? I'm pretty excited because guess what, I'm back with another amazing 2Kama Club interview today guys. So first of all, everyone who's watching this, welcome to The Nikhil Sai Show which is hosted by me, The Nikhil Sai. And guess what's going on today? I'm pretty excited for this interview because I'm getting one of the craziest guy when it comes to e-commerce space. And everyone who's running an e-commerce business, they really lose a lot of sales on the go, right? A lot of sales on the table just like that. And they don't even realize it. You know what I mean? But this guy is helping literally people make millions extra by just having some simple hack inside your business. So this is going to be a super valuable interview. So let's not waste any time. Let's welcome Jovan Stojanovic, co-founder at Ecom Phone Sales. Hey, Jovan.

Hey, what's up, Nikhil?

Super excited for this, buddy. How was your day so far?

I'm doing great, man. I'm doing great. I'm happy to be here, man. Beautiful day here in Mexico. And yeah, man, life is beautiful.

Awesome, buddy. Yeah, pretty excited to see your journey. It was so interesting, right? Can you please start with your backstory, Yovan? We would love to hear how did this all started? When it comes to e-commerce and every other business, people just keep it like, oh, you know what? It's just tired when countries just participate in that and Not a lot of people can know this stuff, but it's pretty interesting to know your story, Yoan. So would you like to start with your story?

Sure, man. Yeah, yeah, man. I got into e-commerce a while ago, actually. That's the funny thing. I got into e-commerce, the first time I got into e-commerce was 2016. So this is 5 years ago. So I drop out of school, I fly to Thailand because I want to start an e-com business and I'm hoping to meet a mentor there. My last week in Thailand, I meet a guy there who's crushing it in the e-commerce space. He suggests I launched this one product. I was about to, I was already like done with like e-com. I already tried it for like 3 months. I was ready to give up. I meet this dude and he's like, yo, you should try this product. I was like, eh, I'm kind of like ready to, I'm like, man, he's like, yo, like you should try this. I go home that night, dude, take this in. I set up just a simple page. I don't even have a, I just use PayPal. I set up a PayPal button. I launched this product, I launched $20 in ads. Next day I wake up with $100 in sales. I was shitting my pants, dude.

Yeah, that's a great experience.

That's crazy. That's crazy. And so, and so basically throughout that week, man, I scaled my first e-commerce business. I ended up doing like $75 grand in like 10 days. That was really cool. A couple of months after that, the whole thing collapses, dude. So the whole thing collapses. My ad account gets shut down. I can't find any new winning products, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to leave the e-commerce space completely. I'm like, this is done. Like, it's too difficult. So I just leave. And then, dude, I didn't go back into e-commerce until 4 years later. Until last year, I did not go back into e-commerce.

Whoa, that's crazy. That's really interesting. And how did you actually got back into e-commerce again? And what did you do in the gap? Like, you had like a 3 to 4 years gap. Like, what were you doing?

So the 3-4 gap, my friend, that's where the Two Comma Club Award comes in. Okay. So yeah. So basically after e-commerce, I got into different things. One of which was, um, social media marketing, the other, which was the info business. So, um, after e-commerce, we started our own marketing agency. People were asking, hey, like, how are you guys like doing your marketing agency? Um, cause we were having good results with it. So we launched a course for how to start your own marketing agency. This was in 2019, 2018 actually. And that blew up, dude. That blew up. The first like 6 months we were just growing it organically. Month 7, we're like, yo, like all the big boys are doing webinars. Maybe we should try a webinar. And so we launched the webinar, man. We launched a webinar, we get our first sale within 24 hours, and then ended up doing $1 million in 53 days with that info business, man.

Ooh, there you go, right? So life can really change in a snap when you just know what's really working in your business. Absolutely.

In a snap, dude, in a snap. And the crazy thing is, man, this is, and this is, this is why it's really funny. That million dollars in 53 days, man, we didn't innovate anything there. We literally went, we looked at who are the people winning right now? What kind of webinars are they running? We found a competitor who had the same offer as us. So we literally analyzed his webinar. We broke down all the components. We literally just made our own Google Slide doc mimicking the exact same structure. And then guess what? It worked.

It worked.

Who would've thought? When you copy what's working.

Yeah, absolutely. So I think like that's the real key for any business. Like people who are just starting out with a new thing, right? They see the trend happening, but people really try to reinvent their own wheel, but that's not how it works. You really need to model what's working exactly what you did, right? And I genuinely believe like 2018 was a trend of webinars. It was a really huge— with webinars, right? So it was super exciting for that journey, bro. So yeah, now you're killing it with e-commerce space, making millions for your clients combined, which is awesome. Again, so let's get more into your e-commerce, dive in with you, our core expertise right now. So now, like, e-commerce is kind of, you know, more like guru stuff happened, like in 2019, like a lot of people were teaching people how to do e-commerce and it became more saturated, right? Now the main problem is, as you are already helping dozens of e-commerce businesses, right? You know for a fact e-commerce has become more saturated, right? It's really hard to stand out, to be honest, right? So as your expertise is in e-commerce, like, how do you think a store can stand out and be successful with the rest of the competition in 2021 especially?

Right, man, that, that's a huge question. That's a huge question. Um, yeah, man, um, e-commerce is no longer what it used to be. And when, when I first started, man, you, you could get like this— like rookies could literally get 7 to 8x return on ad spends. I was getting an 8x return on ad spend, um, back in 2016, 2017. Nowadays, man, if you're getting a 2x, if you're getting a 3x, you're screaming, you're jumping for joy, man. That's how difficult it is nowadays with, with paid traffic and the amount of competition. So gone are the days where you can just throw up Shopify, link a few AliExpress products, and launch like one vid, one, one video Facebook ad. Like, that used to be structured before. That's no longer— it's no longer a feasible model. Absolutely. So, so, so yeah. So today to stand out, well, that's when it comes down to doing all the things that it's, it's, it's doing the things that your competitors aren't doing, number one. And number two, it's making sure that you're covering all your bases and collecting the low-hanging fruit. Those are the biggest things. Like when you look at a lot of e-commerce brands, let's say new ones that are new guys in the, in the, in the field who are just trying to get started and they're trying to make some money, they're making a couple thousand, but they're kind of figuring it out. They don't have great customer service, man. They don't have great— they don't have great shipping times. They don't have great branding. They don't have great products. They don't have a million of these things, which they're so— they're like minuscule micro little things, but it's the accumulation of— if you get all of them right, then you have— then you actually have a chance of standing out as an e-commerce brand. And so that's, that's one of the things that, um, that we can't relentlessly work on with our own e-commerce brands because we also have our phone sales service, but we also have our own e-commerce brands. And that's the biggest thing, man. It's trying to just optimize like the things that other people are going to just kind of not even think about.

Exactly. And I genuinely believe like a lot of dropshippers or people who are trying e-commerce, they should really understand the fundamentals which you just mentioned. It's not about collecting the cash by running ads. It's more about building a real brand by making sure the product quality and the service quality is up to the mark, right? And that's how you can really build a long-term sustainable store than just putting a Facebook ad and then Zoo kicks you in. Like, even with the iOS 14 update, crazy shit is happening with Facebook, so hope everything will be fine quickly. So yeah, that, that's really amazing, amazing, Yovan. So people really need to understand the essence of how you have done it and can really help a lot of people who are actually implementing these strategies just right now in their business. And but like, it's really crazy, right? Like If you think of the journey, right, like you did e-commerce and you, you know, you lost something, you got irritated with the e-commerce, then got into webinar space, made a million bucks within just 53 days. Like, would you like to talk about the journey? Like, how was the journey of hitting a 2CC in 53 days? Like, how did you scale it up that quickly, man? Like, I don't find so many people doing this. Like, I've seen people, dozens of them, they took years to hit that million-dollar mark, which you have done in just 53 days, which is crazy again.

Um, yeah, dude, I, I'd love to, um, bring you back to that moment. Um, but just before I do, yeah, man, like the, like the million dollars in 52 days, that's, uh, it's not, it's definitely not the fastest ClickFunnels, um, award, but at the time it was, it was definitely one of the fastest. Like it was one of the fastest. There might've been like maybe one, maybe two guys, um, who are faster than you faster at that time. Yeah, this was, um, yeah, we got that in what, 20, Well, we claimed the award in 2019 or 2020. I'm not sure. But anyways, man. Yeah. So, so to answer your question there, man. Yeah. Just picture this, man. Like picture your— so I have my brother who's my business partner and we also have Quentin who's our third business partner. So there's three of us. And so imagine this, man. You're in Thailand with your homies. You're working on this webinar. You launch the webinar and this is like New Year's Eve, by the way. We launched it like the night, a couple of nights before New Year's Eve, right? So you launch your webinar, you get your first sale in 24 hours. You're like, holy shit, we just spent 3 weeks on this webinar. We got 1 sale. This fucking works. It's going to work. And then so here's the thing, right? So for the week after that, right, we didn't get a single sale after that first sale. Okay, so we got 1 sale and then no sales for the next 6 days. And we were so devastated. We're like, damn, like we thought we had it. Like what? Like it was just like a lucky sale. So take this in. Here's what we did then. Here's what we did. We go back in the webinar. We were asking for $997. We take that $997, we slash it in half, we drop it to $497, we upload the webinar instantly, instantly 5x ROAS, 4x ROAS, 6x ROAS every day, every day. Boom, boom, boom. And so, and so at this point we're now in Bali. A week later we moved to Bali and yeah, dude, like there it was literally, it was literally bananas, bro. Like we were literally spending $13,000. We were getting back $38,000, man. That was our highest, our highest day was $38,000 with a $13,000 ad spend.

Crazy.

And so, and so every day, like, dude, we were like, when we started scaling, and by the way, for anyone wondering, um, this was YouTube ads, okay? This was YouTube ads. That's, that's, that was, that was a big, big thing and big key because at that time, this was, you know, 2 years ago, everyone's still on Facebook. Everyone's trying to like, you know, Facebook, Instagram, this and that. Like, nah, screw that. I'm done with Facebook. I haven't advertised on Facebook now in like a long time, dude. I don't waste my time with that. I don't, I don't waste time with banned ad accounts. I don't waste time with ad disapprovals. I got more important shit to do, so I don't deal with Facebook. So we were scaling on YouTube, man. YouTube is, is, is, is, is a beast, man. No, no ad disapprovals, man. You can say whatever you want basically on YouTube. You can scale your budgets. It's like a dream come true. And so, and so, and so that's what, that's what we're doing. We would just up the budgets, man. It was still profitable. We kept upping the budgets, spending $13 a day, getting $38 back. And yeah, man, it was, we were literally working like from, we would wake up at 7, man, and I'd go to bed at like 2 AM and I would literally just be working the whole day like that for like the span of like 5 or 6 weeks because literally we had no systems, man. All we had was the front end webinar. Like a kind of like a pro— like we had our course, which, which could be much better. And but no systems, like no email setup, no like Zaps, nothing like making sure people are getting their access, no customer support. None of that was in place, man. And so, so that's why like the first, the first set of the first month or two was, was just a huge, huge just time investment. Like literally every day, man, like 14, 15, 16 hours a day fixing everything. And then yeah, man.

Wow, that's, that's a crazy journey. And again, to mention, like, you three guys literally without any team handled a million dollars in sales, which is crazy. Again, with no system, again with no system, with no prior cold selling experience and all of that cool jazz. And it's really amazing, like, when we really look at this digital business model especially, it was so profitable. And, and I love the point you mentioned, like, don't get, you know, slapped by Zook every single day, just rely on more Reliable traffic sources. There are tons of traffic sources out there. Like Facebook is not just the one thing. Like it's overrated. I definitely mean it. Facebook is amazingly overrated. It's not the only traffic source. You saw Iwan who made like 53 days just in that short time frame, scaled it to $1 million easy. Just need to have a winning webinar. That's it, right? And that's a crazy journey. And we really— that really inspired a lot to me especially, and also maybe hundreds of people who definitely watch this. Podcast again. So that will be really, like, you know, inspiration for them. Be like, oh, you know what, my day is gonna come. I'm gonna just keep consistent and build out my systems like just what Yuvan did, right? Which is awesome again. So yeah, let's get back to more into e-commerce space now. Like, I see like you guys have a company called Ecom Phone Sales, which is amazing again, right? So like you guys have different strategies to increase, you know, the average order value and decrease refunds, right? So would you like to talk about like the best ways to increase average order values and decrease the more refunds which is happening in e-commerce right now?

Definitely, man, definitely. So we're doing something that no other e-commerce brand is doing, and we've been doing this now for about a year, a year now, um, yeah, one year. And that is calling our abandoned carts to get them back to finish their orders. That is calling our customers to upsell them, and that is calling pissed-off customers who are demanding refunds saying they're going to go to their bank and issue a chargeback, calling those people too. And basically what we discovered is a couple of things. One, you can make a lot more money with your e-commerce brand if you are calling your customers and abandoned carts. We add an extra anywhere from like for our own brands, we've added up to, there's been days where the phone revenue has been up to 33% of the total daily revenue.

Ooh.

Yeah. Which is a big boost, man. Like when you're struggling with your ad spend, when you're trying to get good ROAS, that's a big boost, man. Typically though, we hit around 10 to 20% though of additional revenue for our, for our brands. And that's just an extra boost in money, man. So, so you get more. So here's the thing. So you get more revenue. Not only do you get more revenue, when you get people on the phone, you get higher AOVs. If your average order value on your store is $100, on the phone, you can easily get double. You can easily get $130, $150, $200. Which is once again, a lot more than what you're getting on your store. So in, in today's media buying markets, whereas just so difficult, you need every— and this is what I was telling you at the beginning. You need to do what other people aren't doing. You need to find a way to differentiate yourself and get the low-hanging fruit. And I'm telling you right now, every single e-commerce store has hundreds, thousands of phone numbers, which they haven't called a single time.

True.

Why is that? Why is that, Nikhil? Why is no one—

they don't really have an idea. They don't even know that they can actually make this sort of money from that.

I don't know. Yeah, right, right. They don't know what they don't know. So, so yeah, man, that's, that's what we've been doing. And, um, and so it's been working so well for us. And just like a few months ago, we realized, dude, no one else is doing this. Why don't we launch this as a service to other successful e-commerce brands? And so that's what we did. That's when ecomphonesales.com is basically If you're, if you have an e-commerce brand and you're making over $5,000 a day, um, anywhere from $5,000 to $100,000 a day, you can basically, um, we can give you phone sales agents who are trained for e-commerce to call your abandoned carts, get them back, um, to buy, and to also, uh, call your customers and basically upsell them additional products or cross-sell them different bundles.

That's completely amazing. But, and if you really understand the the flow of the business model. Like, you literally already spend the money. It could be YouTube ads, it could be Facebook ads. You spend the money to collect the data and you got the orders. That's it. Now you're basically making 2 times, 3 times money, like 3x ROAS and all that cool jazz. But if you really want to make it profitable, the existing data you have, just leverage it with phone system, right? That's a brilliant idea, right? Like, they can just literally add in 30% extra, 20% on an average, which is— which can really fund their business to the next level. right? Which can really fund their business to the next level.

Yeah, yeah, man. And I was just telling this to my buddy. He has a great e-commerce brand. They're doing, how much are they doing? They're doing like $15,000 a day. So I don't know, like half a mil a month, something like that. And he was just telling me, he was saying how it's a struggle, this and that. And I was just telling him, dude, I think the future of e-commerce is this hybrid model of e-commerce plus the human touch, which is the phone sale. I think this new hybrid, this is a new model, man. We've discovered a new model. Calling it the hybrid model. And I think that's the future, man. And not only that, dude, there are specific types of products. This is the other thing, there's specific types of products, different niches, different offers, e-commerce products/offers basically, which you can actually get your AOV can be up to 500 to 600% more.

That's gold and amazing.

Yeah. I'm not saying this works for every product, every brand, but we have, for example, right now we have two brands where the AOV on the web store was around $50 to $60. And so that same product being sold to the customer, let me specify, this is a customer who purchased the product for $50, $60.

Yeah.

Getting that customer on a call. And we structure this as a specialist, by the way, when we call customers, we're not calling them as salespeople. That's ridiculous. We are specialists calling them to see if there's anything we can do to further assist them, to make them any recommendations, so on. And so with this one product that for the longest time we were just selling for $50, $60 on the store, AOV, that's it. We now discovered that on the phone calling a customer who already bought it, we can sell a package, we can sell bundles of this product for $400, $500, $600, $1,000. Our highest so far is $1,464.

Like you literally took the average order value from $50 by just adding a phone sale in between and literally even 20x, 30x it, right? Literally, which was awesome.

Literally, literally. But here's the thing, this has to be a product, I told you specific. So it has to be a product that solves a certain type of problem. Okay, it has to solve a problem or a perceived problem. So for example, if someone's struggling with acne, for example, that's a product that I could see this doing very well with. And that's actually one of the products that I'm planning to launch soon to test this, to test that strategy. Same formula basically. But, but yeah, man, um, the phone, the phone is a crazy thing, man. Phone is a crazy thing.

Absolutely. And yeah, like, I definitely agree with that point, you know, when like you can't really sell shit, right? People may buy once, but they're never going to come back again if you just give them some random stuff for the amount they paid. There should be like a real problem-solving product or service you offer to build a real brand. And like what you just mentioned is really mind-boggling, you know, one, like you really created that hybrid model which I've never seen personally in e-commerce sale, which is amazing again. And even if you look at the coaching consulting industry That's the same thing happening like in 2018, 2019, webinars were the killers. But if you see in 2021, no one is really trying to do webinars right now. They're trying to get appointments because they want more human touch right now, more than just getting them on order bumps because people are not ready to pay on, you know, just like that on a page. They need some human touch right now. And it's really become a more hybrid digital marketing, you know, solutions for every company now and then, which is awesome again. Yeah. So That's awesome. But so let's get into the next question. You want— like, you are really crazy. Like, you scale your business to the next level and helping other people, managing all these clients, managing your own e-com stores, then coming up with the new strategies to scale up and, you know, doing every single thing. Like, you have a lot of stuff on play, right? And I wonder, like, how do you manage all of this stuff? Like, any tools, or, you know, how do you exactly manage your product, you know, projects and clients for productivity?

Yeah, man. Do you want to talk software or you want to talk strategy?

Strategy and software is both.

Yeah, man. Great question. So I'll tell you, we'll talk software after this. So, but in terms of, so the first thing is you have to have a good team. Okay. Your team is very important. I used to be for a very long time, I was a solo entrepreneur. I would hire like a logo maker on Fiverr every now and then. But there comes a point in time where you realize that, you know, you need a team. And so Building a team, a high-quality team, and managing a team, that's pretty, pretty challenging. So when it comes to managing, since that's what you asked, so I'm going to assume that, for example, someone already has a team. One of the big breakthroughs that we had actually last month when it comes to team management is a virtual office. So basically when people start working for us at 8:00 AM, they are required to join the daily Zoom call. When they join the daily Zoom call, they're required to have their camera on for the duration of the time they're working. So it's like we have all of our 10 agents, for example, if one person's managing 10 agents, all 10 people or 11, all 11 people are on that Zoom call from 8 AM until 5 PM. And this has skyrocketed the amount of stuff that we get done and also the productivity of the team. Because when you have 10 people, man, and if you're not watching them, dude, it's very easy for them to, They go take a cigarette break, they go bathroom breaks, they go for lunch, they don't even tell you they're going, they come back, they're texting on their— Dude, there's so many things, so many, so many things. But when you're seeing everyone's there, everyone's physically present, then you know that you got a good flow. So that's been a huge breakthrough for us that happened last month. It's been really great. In terms of software, man, so I'm a big software guy. I love software. I love tools. I don't particularly code, but I'm very familiar with data and Zapier and webhooks and stuff like that. When it comes to software, man, there is one. So we use Slack, number one, for business communication. I'm not feeling what's a big thing, but I'm going to give you a gem, man. I'm going to give you a gem right now. Not a lot of people still know about this. Okay. I mean, it's a big software, but I don't see, I don't know a lot of people that use it, man. It's this literally, man, this one software has literally changed our business. I can't even describe to you, man. And not every business, dude. We've been using this for a year and a half now. We started this with the marketing agency. It works great for e-commerce. It works great for info. It literally works amazing for whatever business you have. And the software is called airtable.com, airtable.com.

Wow.

Have you ever heard of it?

Yeah, I've never heard of it. Probably like, I'm just like more of this ClickUp and Trello guy than the Airtable thing is new for me actually.

Cool. Airtable, it's, it's kind of like ClickUp, but not quite. It's more of a, it's similar, but it's more of a data. It's more of a database for your business, man. So for example, let's say, let me give you an example. Like if I ask you, Nikhil, where's your business data? How do you answer that question?

That would be super awkward for me to answer because I don't really have like a system to analyze that and just come up with that within seconds. I can't really do that with the current system I have, yeah.

Right, and your data's all over the place, right? Your ad spend is in Facebook, your revenue is in Stripe, your customers are probably on your notes, I don't even know. Well, with Airtable— That's true. With Airtable, at first glance, man, it just looks like a Google Sheet. And that's basically what it is. It's, it's, um, it's a Google Sheets on steroids. And so basically you can build an entire— you can build a database of your whole business in one place, man. So for example, with us, we have clients, you have all of your payments, you have all of your suppliers, you have all of your products, you have all of your, um, all of your staff members, you have, um, all of your refunds logged, all the transactions. Um, um, what all of your, all of your internal tickets, for example, when a salesperson passes a ticket to a customer support team or vice versa, the tickets get created. All, all of that, bro. Like, literally every piece of data of our business, whether it's for our e-commerce business, whether it's for our marketing agency, every piece of data is in this one place.

Oh, and that really helps us to be super productive because now we don't need to be mumble jumble between 100 different softwares. You can just come into this one software, airtable.com, and they can— then you can just literally start working on it, which is amazing again. And that's so amazing, brother. And I really love the Zoom hack which you just mentioned. Personally, I'm gonna try it as well with my VA team, and hopefully it will definitely work out. Yeah, yeah, that's a ridiculous idea. Like, it was so basic to understand, but I'm like, oh, I've never tried that even. I've never even thought of it. And I genuinely believe it can easily add up 20 to 30% productivity to the world. 100%. But they're going to be more accountable because they're on camera, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

They can't text their girlfriend.

Yeah, I want, I want you to message me in like a week and let me know how it's been.

100%. I'm gonna definitely do that, yo. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's a golden nugget for me. So let's get into the next question, you want— so like, like, I'm really curious for your suggestion about the new generation who are getting into this business, e-commerce, and who are you're getting the shiny object thing, right? So what will be a suggestion to a 20-year-old you or someone who's just getting started right now in the business?

Uh-huh. Um, well, a lot of people getting started, man, um, one thing I notice is they're not really, um, like they don't have full confidence in themselves. Like they don't believe in themselves like 100%. They might believe in themselves like 30%, they might believe in themselves like 80% or like 90%, um, yeah, but it's, it's That's very different than believing in yourself 100%. And that's the biggest thing with young people is like, they're so, they're still, they're so, they're new. I mean, I'm still young, man, you're still young, but they're very brand new to, to like all of this. And, um, and so confidence is super important. One of the big things that I've— I'm still learning to, to learn, um, is— and this is what I would also tell young people— is that you have to realize that all the rules in the world they were just— they're just made up. So whatever, whatever rules, whatever, whatever, um, limitations you think are there, um, whatever laws are there, um, whatever structure you think you have to follow or you had to follow growing up or whatever all that is, um, all of that, all of that is just simply— it's all made up. And so that's been a big struggle, struggle for me as well as a blessing because As I've been just breaking barrier after barrier after barrier, that's when I realized this. And the whole time it was like I didn't know that was possible because I thought that was a rule. I thought that was a thing that, you know, I can't just go from here to here, or I thought that, you know, you have to do this, this, and that. It's not. Those are just made-up things. And so what I would suggest to young people is to really start seeing, trying to see, change perspective on life and being and just see that a lot of the things that you think are real aren't actually real and they're actually illusions.

100% true. And that's so deep message. I love it, Johan. Once again, like, it's so deep. Like, people who can really understand, they're going to take their shit to the next level, right? Like, it's really that deep. Like, you— if you really understand, like, that all these mind limitations you had is just what you observe yourself, but nothing really exists. Like, to give you an example, like, once we start making $100 a day, we'll be like, wow, I can never make this much money. But once you crack that $1,000 a day, you'll be like, like, freak, like I'm a millionaire. Like you literally feel that. But once you get into that $10,000 a day, you'll be like, whoa, right? Like, but again, like the money you make or the impact you make is just what your mind conceives or achieve, right?

Like who's to say that, who's to say that it's like, it's difficult to make like a million dollars or who's to say it's difficult to make a billion dollars? Like who's to say, man?

No one, like it's literally us, right? Like we literally look at our parents and then decide like, okay, they're just making a couple of hundred bucks. Now it's time for me to make thousands. That's it, For it, right?

Right.

It's not the right way.

Yeah, man, it's a big mental thing. Yeah.

Yeah. And I genuinely believe a lot of people should actually learn this, especially from mentors who can actually help them with, right, give the right guidance, like what you're doing on this podcast show right now, which is pretty amazing. They just really need to understand who they are, you know, hanging out with, and that can really level up their mindset and can remove all the borders they have. That's amazing.

Yeah, man, I agree, man. They should hang out with cool people. Like, like, they should hang out with you, you know. You're a pretty cool guy, man. Like, I'm enjoying hanging out with you right now.

Awesome. But like, me too, like, I really love the vibe we are having on this conversation. It's like an old friend talking to me right now, right? Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate that, Johan. So let's get to the next question, buddy. Like, in this young age, like, you're not super old right now, but you've achieved so many big things, right? So what are your biggest achievements so far in life and any bigger goals next?

Um, yeah, man, I was thinking about that. Um, so you sent me that. Um, dude, my biggest achievement, dude, like, I'm just happy to be here, man. Like, just the fact that I've made it here this far, like, 24 years later, man. Like I'm still here, like I'm in one piece, like I've made it because some money— I'm not a billionaire, but I made some all right money, like I'm still trying to make more. I have good friends, man. I have a brother, I have a family. Like, dude, that, that to me is like, like, what more do I need to achieve? Like, that's— yeah, like, and anything else is a cherry on top, man. Like, at this point, like, I'm just, I'm just happy. And that's the thing, man, like, I, like, like, whether you think you've achieved a lot or whether you've— I think you've achieved small, once again, like What is big and what is small, man? It's all perspective.

Yeah, 100%, right? And, and it's not about like having a billion dollars in bank, but just about being more happy that you're, you're purposeful and you're grateful for what you are today, right? And not being anxious about tomorrow, right? Which is so important in life.

Again, yeah, yeah, man, 100%. And just, um, and just like, dude, just like, um, going, just going with the flow, man. Like, what's one thing to, to be grinding 12 hours a day and then like just have your sole goal, like I want to make like— my goal is like I want to make $10,000 a day. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get there. That's fine. You know, that's fine. And I used to work like that for a long time and I saw results with that. But nowadays, man, my mindset is very different. Nowadays it's just like I'm just here in the moment, man. I'm not too concerned about money. I haven't logged into my bank account, man, in like months, man. Like it's probably been like 5 months since I— like, I don't check my bank account. I have a CFO. He just like— like I just try not to think about that. And so— and yeah, man, that's the thing. Like people, you can grind 12 hours a day. That's fine. I've been there. It's one way of doing things, but then the other way is just, is just being more in tune with, with yourself and your surroundings, um, and just realizing that great things are coming either way.

That's awesome, and that really makes a lot of sense. So people who are just grinding, just make sure you do it in the right way. Don't get so much burned out that you are going to quit again, right? Yes, don't make that happen, right? And like, you can only win when you never quit, right? Well, so Yeah, absolutely, brother. So let's get into the next question. But so you're so young and built multiple businesses, helping a lot of clients, especially running an agency with e-commerce business and having these agents do phone calls and all of the crazy stuff, right? So what was your biggest mistake in life so far, like in business-wise, strategy-wise, anything?

It's an illusion, man. There's no such thing as a mistake, man. That's an illusion. So once again, it's a— you ask that question with, with the thought that, that the mistake's real. But what— like, I'm pretty sure that mistakes are illusions, man. Because you have your— you have an action and then you have your reaction or your outcome. That's, that's all there is. There's an action and there's an outcome. A mistake, that's just, that's just an interpretation of the outcome. So you might be very pissed off at the outcome, but that's just, that's just how you're choosing to react to it. Or you can be very happy and pleased about the outcome, and that's once again your choice of how you're going to react. So when I look at that, what's the biggest mistake in my life? I don't think I've made a— I don't think I haven't made one, man. It's not possible.

Wow, pretty interesting, Joe. And I know when I, when I'm on a conversation with you for 30 minutes long right now, I really feel you are so mindful on understanding the life and, you know, all the interactions happening and the momentum which is going on, which is pretty amazing. Like, you are not in a smaller vision, you are having a bird's eye view on what's going on in your life, right? Like, that's really amazing. Like, I believe you're one of those few people I know personally who have this sort of mindset. Right? So which is pretty amazing. Again, I appreciate it, Johan.

Yeah, man.

So let's get to the next question, buddy. Yeah, happy to hear that again. So let's get into the next question, buddy. Who are your main inspirations so far and key people involved in your success?

Um, my main inspirations for success?

Yeah, inspiration and key people involved, right?

Uh, well, key people will be my business partners, man. Um, you know, they're great guys, man, and I could do this alone, but I'd rather not. So having them there is great. And in terms of inspiration for success, man, you know, the question is like when people ask like, why do you want to make so much money? Or like, why is it so important for you to, you know, like have this huge— like why? Like why? My simple response to that has always been like, why not? You're going to be here. You're going to be here anyways. So why wouldn't you do that? Why won't you choose, man? You just get to choose, right? Like, why not? And then so the other big thing that I realized, and this was more recently, this was actually this year that I realized, is that, and this is what's really been driving me forward now, like as the main inspiration for success, is just to make the world a better place, man.

Vision.

I just like to make the world a better place, man, however that is. And I know in order to do that, I can do that right now with the things around me. That's fine. But another way to do it in that larger scale is when you have a lot of capital available. So in other words, when you have a lot of money, you can do greater and bigger things to make the world a better place. And so that's what I'd like to do, man. And that's something I discovered earlier this year. I was really just thinking about what is my purpose here? Why am I here? Why am I here? Really just thinking about it. And then I realized, man, it's to make the world a better place.

Absolutely. And, and the, the vision is really great. Like, you can't even stop thinking about it. Like, it's more about purpose, impacting people's lives and making this world be a better place for everyone who's going to be the upcoming generation, right? Which is so awesome again. And that's amazing, amazing, Yvonne. That's so kind of you. And you have a great vision, but I hope you'll achieve it super quickly. And I love the sentence which you mentioned, like, money is, is an illusion. Again, it's just a resource which can help you to do something, right? Like, you get— you could buy good things, you can buy shit, you can invest it right way, you can impact people, you can donate it, you can give back, you can do a lot of things. But it's just like a resource, so don't keep it as a primary motivation, right? And I've never found a guy who is a millionaire who says money is his motivation. Never ever, right? Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. And this— what— this is why people suck, right? Like, at their mindset, they just be like, yeah, you know what, first of all I want to make money, then everything is elsewhere, right? But that's not how it works really, right? It's about purpose, genuinely helping people. The money follows automatically, which is amazing.

Again, look, man, you can do it both ways. I've done it both ways, and I'm telling you, man, that second way that you just said where you're in it for like the long run, you're there to help, you're genuine, and you're there to help people, man, way, way, way better, man. And just much better, more likely to succeed. You're going to succeed stronger, you're going to succeed harder, and it's just a way better way to go about it.

Yeah. And the best thing is we have that subconscious thing in their head going around that we are genuinely impacting people's life in a positive way, right? Not about just collecting the cash, but you can see the end goal of what you're impacting, right, with your product or service, right? Which makes us great to leave.

The end goal, and then also the chain reaction, man. The chain reaction is another thing. It's like, if I make— if I make your life a little bit better, then you're more likely to make someone else's life a little bit better, you know?

100%. Yeah, that's the reciprocity thing, which really— which is really learning, you know, making this world move on. Right, that, that's really working and it really manifests day in, day out every single day, which is awesome again. So let's get into the next question, buddy. This is kind of sum up right now. So like, you're so cool, man. You're one of the coolest guys I've ever found on the interview podcast right now. So where can our audience find your mentoring?

Uh, well, um, they can go to ecomphonesales.com, uh, that's our website. Um, but, um, in terms of mentoring, I don't, I don't have any sort of paid mentoring or anything like that, man. I used to be, like you told you with the webinar, I used to be a guru and all that. I'm no longer an internet guru. I just like to have a cool business, man, and help people. So if anyone needs help, they can just message me. But, um, yeah, man, that's, that's the mentoring I give, man. Just reach out to me and let me see if I can help.

That's awesome, Yoan. And that's, that's something I really love. You, like, generally, you genuinely have a purpose more than anyone else, I really found. And that's amazing, Yoan. Glad we connected on this simple podcast. Again, any last words before we conclude the whole podcast session?

Um, no last words, man, other than just peace, love, and blessings.

There you go. I'm gonna give you some last words. Guess what a viewer is saying? Like, he's so cool and down to earth.

Oh, that's from Facebook? Wow, man, awesome.

Yeah, like, people who are watching it are really loving the vibe of you, man. Yoan, thank you so much for the amazing opportunity, brother. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for sharing those amazing mindfulness strategies and all your business learnings you have done. Which is so wonderful again, and appreciate your, you know, great insight on this complete world which is running right now. And appreciate your time, Brad. Excited to speak to you again.

Thank you, man. Thank you. Amazing to be here, and it's been a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me.

Awesome, you're one. Have a great day. Peace.

Peace.