The Man Behind a Multi Million T-Shirt Empire | Nikhil X Tom

What's been your childhood like? Why did you choose to be an entrepreneur?

I was always curious about, you know, just paving my own path and doing my own thing and figuring that out.

How do you even stick to a business for that long?

I mean, first 3 to 5 years was really just grinding out and building the foundations. We've been growing at a rate of like 20% a year for 20 years straight. I lost all feeling in my fingers, my hands, my arms through loss of circulation, and it actually got up over my mouth where I was having a hard time breathing. At that point, like, my team was panicking.

Why did you even decide to almost die trying to create a world record?

I did think it was going to be like a near-death experience. Otherwise, I would not have attempted it. It's like I go into Starbucks and get a coffee, and Starbucks is paying me rent every month. Like, they're paying for free coffee, basically. If you can imagine running 100 miles at one time, it's absolutely insane.

Is there anything else that you haven't done yet?

It's crazy. I feel like I've done a lot, but there's still a lot to do.

What's going on? What's going on, everybody who's actually tuning in for the podcast? Welcome back to another episode of The Nikhil Sai Show, which is hosted by me, the Nikhil Sai. And guess what's going on today? We're back with another amazing entrepreneur, and the guy who's jumping on is one of my dearest friends. And, you know, we had so much fun when we met in America at Funnel Hacking Live in Vegas. And what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, so can't talk more about it. But it's so fun to hang out with this person, and I admire him as an entrepreneur a lot. The reason is he's been building this business for double decades. I mean, you don't see many business owners sticking to one business and run it at the scale. And I've known him and I understand his journey, and we talked a lot of business when we were together. So I really believe that this is going to be a very vulnerable and inspiring journey to see And from there, not just building a very powerful and successful e-commerce brand, which is made in America for America. On top of that, he built a beer brand. We will talk about that as well. And also he became an investor. Funny enough, he likes to die. I don't know what's the obsession with him doing some crazy feats which brings him close to the death, but he always pulls it off. And he has the world record for having most amount of t-shirts worn at the same time. It's going to be fun. Let's not waste any time. And actually, let's welcome The visionary investor, 3 times Inc. 5000 CEO, Rowan. Hey, Tom.

Hey, good to be here.

Absolutely, brother. Pleasure having you on. You are a podcaster, you're an entrepreneur, you're a visionary, you have multiple businesses, and a marathoner. Is there anything else that you haven't done yet?

There's still— it's crazy. I feel like I've done a lot, but there's still a lot to do.

Interesting enough. So, I mean, I would love to get into the wild stories, but before that, Talk us through your journey, Tom. Like what's been your childhood like? Why did you choose to be an entrepreneur? You went from, you know, starting your business with your mom's help in your garage to now building 1-800-T-Shirts. It's just insane at the scale you guys are running. So walk me through your journey. What prompted you to be an entrepreneur? What was the early childhood like?

Yeah, I was always curious about, you know, just paving my own path and doing my own thing and figuring that out. And I loved, you know, the sales and marketing behind it. So as a kid, it was baseball cards. And then Beanie Babies were like this big toy craze. So I was selling those through online forums and we were getting— so this was before any payment platforms. So we were getting checks in the mail and I was shipping everything out. And then I started doing— I really got heavy into eBay and was doing arbitrage on a lot of different retail items. So I was buying items basically at retail prices from Walmart. I'd go to Walmart, I'd list the items on eBay, and I'd find stuff that was on sale or clearance. I'd list it. Once it's sold, I'd go back to Walmart, buy buy it, then ship it. And that's really like, you know, what started a lot of things and just seeing kind of the way, you know, people wanted that convenience before Amazon was around. Like I was providing that convenience of people shipping stuff directly to their house. And it always just amazed me because like one product that we were doing a lot of, my mom owned a hair salon and I was shipping shampoo all over the place. And it was like, well, why would people buy shampoo off of eBay when they can just get it, you know, when they're getting their hair done? Or something, and they wanted that convenience that shipped right to their door. So we were doing that long before Amazon came along and they figured out that people enjoy this convenience and obviously grew from there. And then also in high school and college, I was always, as my side hustle, I was coming up with t-shirt designs and selling them to other people in the community or other kids at the school. And that's really how I helped pay for, you know, all my expenses and everything throughout high school and college. And, you know, right after college, that's how I started 1-800.

Makes sense. So talk us through your journey. You built the business 1-800-T-Shirts. I know it had a different name previously. How do you even stick to a business for that long? I mean, I've seen e-com entrepreneurs, the so-called ones, come and go, build short-term brands, and then just forget that it even existed. And you've been here building this business for over 20 years? What's the reason, what's the drive, and how do you stay so focused on building this business in the first place?

Yeah, I think, you know, time flies when you're having fun and it's been quite a journey. So the first 3 to 5 years was really just grinding out and building the foundation. So that was putting in a lot of time, a lot of hours to figure it out. You know, I was 22 when I started and I had no clue, you know, how to run a business, how to even print a t-shirt at that time. And so I could design the shirts. I was figuring out how to print the shirts, how to do customer service, how to do all the other stuff involved until we could build up a big enough customer base to actually start hiring staff to help with the graphic design and the printing and everything else. So really like that first 5 years was just grind it out, build the foundation and learn as you go by trial and error. And then from there, you know, as we kept scaling, I think the thing that's kept it kind of fresh for 20 years is there's so many different customers, so many different types of projects that we work on. And we've been growing at a rate of like 20% a year for 20 years straight. So there wasn't like this big hockey stick growth or anything like that. It's just consistent growth every year. And with that consistent growth, you know, we're bumping up against different growing pains and different things. We're always looking like, all right, how do we keep taking this up to the next level? What do we have to look for internally on systems and processes and you know, even our customers, everything else, and like, can we keep, you know, this pace up for another 20 years? And what's that look like? And so really like the journey is just like dealing with everything that's coming at you every single year. And then, you know, the time just kind of goes by. And then in between that, as you're growing the business, you find the other things that happen in life, your passions, family, friends, travels, everything else, and they fill in all the gaps. And in some ways, maybe those are the things that actually happened through the year and the business fills in the gaps. So that's, that's how we've been doing it for 20 years now.

Makes sense. I mean, this is the reality of building a successful business, which is you got to go through long phases of hard work to experience that steady growth. And not a lot of people are willing to do that. And I'm glad you shared your experience of building this business, which is hard. I mean, building e-commerce businesses, there's always a lot of variables. Now I want to dig a little deeper. You're not building the average D2C buying something from China and then reselling it with your name on it in America. You're building something fundamentally different that I haven't seen a lot of American entrepreneurs do. You're building a business-to-business network of, you know, like an e-commerce brand for businesses technically. Walk us through how is it different? What has been your learning selling to B2B for a for a large amount of time?

Yeah, so it's like I said, there's a wide customer base. So it's everything from local small businesses, so lawn care companies, construction companies, plumbers, banks, credit unions, insurance companies, all the way up to Fortune 500 companies, the people in the tech space. And then, you know, the stuff that they're doing in between. So it's events, trade shows, job fairs, all sorts of stuff. So they're branding their company apparel for employee or gifts for top clients, for handouts at those trade shows to attract new clients and prospects and stuff like that. So there's a wide variety of items, wide variety of customer base. And so that's the business side of things. And then we've got the schools and clubs side of the business, which is everything from Little League sports teams, middle schools, high schools, and colleges, all the way up to professional sports teams. and we're providing uniforms and fan apparel and stuff for different organizations in high schools and colleges. So it could be fraternities and sororities and the chess club and the FFA and, you know, whatever other clubs are in, you know, every high school and college. There's a lot of variety there too. And that, that's like a whole nother division of the business. And then there's the nonprofit side of it. So we work with a lot of charities and a lot of charities are using t-shirts to get their message out, to raise funds for that charity. And so it may be a traditional nonprofit that's doing that, or in some cases it could be somebody who has gotten cancer or someone in their family has gotten some other ailment and they're having a hard time paying for the bills, the medical bills and all that. So we're doing fundraisers for them and that fundraiser is, you know, their message, their battle cry on a t-shirt. And getting that out there to show support for that person that's going through a hard time. So twofold, one, we're helping raise funds for them to cover those costs. And then the second part, it's, it's showing that like community aspect and that network of, you know, their team, like who is supporting these people. And so that also like brings that variety into the business. And I think starting off, like we had this big focus on the sports team side of it and the, the local bars and restaurants and stuff like that. And as we continue to grow, It's very fulfilling to be able to work with all sorts of different customers, but to see the impact that we're making on the charity side of it by, you know, raising funds and raising awareness for all these different causes, that's something I had no clue at the age of 22 we were going to get into. And over the last 20 years, you know, we've donated and supported hundreds of charities, multiple, you know, millions of dollars donated and raised. For these charities. And that's pretty fulfilling from a purpose level and a personal level of just like knowing that impact. And I think that also keeps driving, you know, not only myself, but everybody else in the team as well.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's what keeps the drive, right? Like when the bad days come and you look at the impact you've been building and the outcomes you're delivering to the world, I think that's what creates the light in the end of the tunnel and keeps that laser focus to keep building the business. Now I want to understand a little bit more. You are a very good networker. I've seen people coming up to you, you know everybody. How has networking impacted your business and what tricks or what suggestions you have for business owners to keep networking well and build that network to scale their own business?

Yeah, so, you know, I learned at a young age that if I was constantly in the office behind the t-shirt press printing. I wasn't meeting people and I wasn't growing that. And I always felt like that was the most important thing, you know, in my business. And once I was able to, you know, hire people, get outside of the office, get outside from behind the computer and make real authentic connections face-to-face with people, you know, a lot of stuff grew from there because just that power of word of mouth and having that trust with other people. So, on a local level, and this is different than people have e-commerce businesses typically or someone with an online business, but on local level, I was able to join a lot of different charity boards of the nonprofits that we were working with. And again, it was twofold because one, we're able to provide some stuff for those nonprofits. I was able to give back my time and talent and lend some expertise to help them grow and get towards their mission. And then the other part of it is like all the other people serving on those boards, you know, it's other CEOs and other people in the community that are very active that I was able to get to know them, had a passion or, you know, a mutual appreciation and care for whatever that organization was. So that put us on, you know, kind of just a better playing field. And then it's the reciprocity of like, You know, we're all trying to, you know, work towards the same thing as a community here. Let's work together and help each other out. And then the other part is just, you know, traveling and, you know, going to events, you know, whether it's trade shows or seminars or just general, you know, traveling for leisure. Like I like to meet people, other business owners, other entrepreneurs. I love hearing their stories and, you know, learning all about that and providing value in whichever way I can. Whether that's making a connection with somebody, connecting, you know, other people together, or just, you know, giving feedback, sharing my story, and maybe something resonates with them to add a little spark to their life or their business. And I think that just makes it fun. And I enjoy like seeing people, meeting people, hanging out, and building new friendships and relationships that way.

Makes sense. A lot of love. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's really helpful. I hope businesses who are listening are more inspired to continue their networking journey and build those lifelong relationships, right? I mean, funny enough, if I wouldn't meet you through a different person I met, we wouldn't be here, right? So there's this compounding effect of networking with the right people and creating that quality network of yours can really push you because I think there's a beautiful quote, which is like, you are the average of 5 people you hang out with. And it's really important to keep leveling up that network and keep creating opportunities for yourself and helping other people at the same time. You can choose to buy at low, lower prices from other countries, could be Vietnam, China, and, you know, any other countries where you could produce goods at a lower price and increase your profit margin, but you choose to be a made in USA company. Why did you do that? And what's the thesis behind it?

Yeah, so we're not completely made in the USA company. Everything is printed here in the USA. So we've got our own printing facility where we're screen printing, we're embroidering, and we're decorating the products and customizing them. But our, you know, our suppliers are from all over the world. You know, it just depends on the brand. So we carry a lot of name brand clothes, whether it's Carhartt, Nike, Under Armour, North Face, Patagonia, a lot of different brands. We've got a lot of, you know, big name brands. We also have you know, kind of what I would call our in-house brands that, you know, aren't labeled with the typical retail label that you would see. And yeah, they come from all over the world and we just work with the distributors and the brands that are able to get us easy access and we're able to get them fast in a variety of different colors, sizes, and styles. And, you know, that gives us that variety for our clients and also just makes the business easy for us. So we're not having to stock a lot of inventory. We're working just-in-time inventory. So as a customer order is coming in, we're getting it from one of our warehouse supplier partners and basically printing and fulfilling that within a few days.

Makes sense. I mean, I love that fact that you are technically an e-com brand, but you don't have inventory issues, cash flow issues because of what you just mentioned. And also you don't have a huge RTO or like returns or damages because you're just making it on the go as the demand comes. So that's, that's pretty interesting. Now, any advice or big learnings you've had running the e-com brand for so long? If an e-com entrepreneur is listening, what would be the number one suggestion you would give them?

Yeah, I mean, it's, everything's just changing so fast. It evolves. So, you know, it's, it's, it's tough because you invest a lot of, lot of money in different things, whether it's equipment or technology or, you know, a piece of software or whatever the case is. And you have all this money stuck into it and you think, all right, well, this is, this is the answer because we've invested so much into developing this product or into the software or whatever the case is. But in some cases, the, there's a newer, fresher product out there, faster to replace and can help you grow more than the current one that you have or the old one that you have. And it's not having your eyes open to that newer, better thing that was able to help your business out because you have that like existing investment in something else. So it's like sometimes that holds you on to that for a little bit too long. So especially right now with AI, everything's changing so fast that you've got to look at all of your, you know, software stack and what you're using to run your business and see like, all right, is this serving the business and serving our clients at the best level, or is there another solution out there Even though we've got a lot of time, energy, and money invested into other systems, there may be a new system that can replace it and make you a much better business because of it.

Makes sense. Now I've heard e-com entrepreneurs crying about how tariffs has basically like created an upside down situation. I'm curious, how is tariffs impacting your business and what's your take on what's happening and how do you see the future?

Yeah, so we're just taking it one day at a time. It's, it, it's kind of product by product and, you know, we could look at it and let's just say it's a water bottle and that water bottle we could source from China, we could source from the US, we could source from a lot of different countries. So really it's figuring out like, all right, what are our customer needs? What are they ordering? And then what is the best source for that? And maybe if we can't find the proper source to fit their budget, then maybe it's another product that's going to take place of that. And so we're just kind of taking it on a day-by-day basis being nimble really kind of reminds me of just coming out of COVID when there was a lot of supply chain issues. So it was the same thing. It was like people were used to ordering a certain product, it would be out of stock, or the price would be inflated quite a bit because of that supply and demand. And so we would just take that on a case-by-case basis and figure out like, all right, here's the event or here's the need for the client and here's what they're trying to accomplish from a marketing and a branding standpoint. And here's what their budget is. What is the best product and where can we best source that to solve what their needs are?

Makes sense. Appreciate that. Now, Tom, think about that moment. Why did you even decide to almost die trying to create world record and you actually did it? Walk us through the story. What was your ideology? Give us a mini movie of what happened, how did you do it, and what was the goal and why did you do it in the first place?

Yeah. So growing up as a kid, I remember looking through the Guinness World Record book and there was always this fascination. I remember seeing like, you know, world's tallest guy and the world's shortest person. And then like the, like crazy person with like fingernails that were like super long and all the other, like just crazy things in there that, you know, caught my fascination. And the same right now, my kids, they're flipping through, you know, The Guinness World Record book, and they're— and I've seen their eyes light up and they're fascinated by, you know, everything that's in there. And so it was just like this fascination of like, wow, this is cool. Like, it would be neat to be in this someday. I love to do, you know, outside the box, nontraditional marketing things to get attention, to create an experience that people, you know, they get to experience it with you. It's memorable, it's shareable. It's something they want to tell other people about and just crazy stuff that's over the top. So I, you know, being in the t-shirt business, I went on the Guinness World Records website and I searched t-shirt. I just put in t-shirt and there was like, you know, 10 different records that had to do with t-shirts. And this one just instantly stuck out. It was like guy wearing the most t-shirts at once and it was 45 shirts and he just looked like this giant. And I'm like, all right, I was like, that is it. And so I called up Guinness, they gave me the full rundown on how it works. I talked to one of the adjudicators, we hired him to come out and adjudicate to make sure that we were following all the rules and got everything done right. And he was telling me that on the phone as we were prepping, he said, this is a great record because some records, some records that they get broken, but visually there's not a lot to see with it. So they just don't get a lot of attention. He said this one, because visually you've got on this massive amount amount of t-shirts, you know, it's a couple hundred pounds and everything. He goes, it just creates this fascination and this like wow moment when they see it. So he said, one, a lot of people are going to show up to this event to watch it live. And then he said the photos and the video of it are going to get a lot of traction from a marketing standpoint for a long time. And he was right.

Oh my God. I saw the picture and I was like, holy moly, you're crazy. That's insane. Yeah. So it was insane.

We were planning putting on over 300 shirts and the record was 245. Around 200, I lost all feeling in my fingers, my hands, my arms through lost circulation. And it actually got up over my mouth where I was having a hard time breathing. So at that point, like my team was panicking. We started putting them on as fast as we could and we beat it by 2. Like we got to the record, we put on one more to break the record. Everyone's cheering, going crazy. And then we did one more to make sure we didn't miscount. And so that's how we ended up at 247 shirts. And it was way harder than I ever imagined it being. Like, I didn't think it was going to be like a near-death experience. I would not have attempted it. We had about, I don't know, maybe 250 people in the room watching, family, friends, sponsors, everything. So we sold sponsorships on all the t-shirts. We raised $5,000 for Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. And so it's kind of cool because we create this community event, we create a charitable event about it. I broke the record. And then, you know, the next day I was on CNN Headline News, BBC News, just worldwide press everywhere. And, you know, I broke that record in 2011. And since then, basically every year I've been called and interviewed about breaking that record. Sometimes it's from other people, you know, breaking another record. I've gotten asked to come and witness other records and like document and, you know, as an expert on it. And, you know, I've just had a lot of other great opportunities, you know, from doing that record. And, you know, kids ask me to sign their Guinness World Record book, which is kind of cool. So tons of fun and, you know, just kind of a memorable moment that created a lot of word of mouth, a lot of traction, and just a lot of marketing power for the business.

Oh yeah. I mean, I totally love that. I mean, from the time as a young kid admiring the book to actually being in it and like holding that record. I can only imagine how much it means to you. And yeah, that's crazy that you've actually done that. I couldn't imagine. And guys, Google the picture, his name and world record t-shirts. You will find it. And it is terrifying. I do not recommend trying that, but yeah. Let's go into the next section, Tom. You are a t-shirt business owner, right? Like 1-800-T-Shirts, e-com, B2B, you know, you are one of the known companies in that space. And you also built a beer brand, Dimensional Beer. Talk us through the thought process, you know, and this is in Iowa, if I'm not mistaken. So talk us through why did you choose to do it?

It's a small craft brewery, Dimensional Brewing Company. And I had this idea, it was something I kind of always wanted to do when I retire someday. But the opportunity and the need came well before, you know, that someday of retirement. And, you know, we found an old building. In our downtown Main Street area. And, you know, I had this vision for it. I found a partner and he also had kind of the same vision and his qualities matched up really well with mine. Like his strong suits matched up with my weaknesses, his weaknesses matched up with my strong suits. And then we got with 3 absolutely incredible brewers and, you know, all of us came together and, you know, put this thing together, remodeled this building, started this. Small microbrewery. And, you know, all the credit goes to the brewers because, you know, you can have the vision for the brewery and, you know, what do you want it to be as far as a community gathering space and everything else, but the product is the heart and soul of it. And these guys are just absolute wizards when it comes to brewing great craft beer. So, you know, they get all the credit there. It's absolutely amazing. You know, they're, they're running the day-to-day, my partners, doing a lot of the backend bookwork and business stuff. And then, you know, we've got an excellent taproom manager. So for me, it's very passive and hands-off, but these guys are just an incredible team to be a part of. And I'm very fortunate to have that vision, have the idea, and get it all to come together. It's pretty amazing.

Makes sense. I mean, it gives a good learning that you don't have to know ins and outs to start a business. You just have to have the right partners and right systems and expertise who can execute even without you to build a business at that scale and hands-off. That's impressive. Now this probably the explanation you've done, right? You found this commercial building on Main Street and now you turn it around into a draft beer brewing factory and you're now, you're basically, you have your own beer company. I think you've ran a similar playbook with other real estate investments and you are the founder of of fast food investment opportunities as well, fast food landlord. So talk us through what's real estate to you? Why do you continue to invest and you help other people do that as well? So talk us through your thesis as an entrepreneur. Why choose real estate as a vehicle? Why commercial real estate, especially fast food? And give us a mini real estate masterclass.

All right. So real estate was always this fascination of mine because You know, I looked at, you know, some of the wealthiest people in the world and it was built with real estate and also the wealth building side of real estate was a big, like, thing for me to, to look at. The other part was the tax benefits of investing in real estate. The US government really sets it up that they want this— the people to invest capital in real estate as an incentive to keep local economies and everything growing. And the more that does, it just helps everything grow. So there's a lot of great tax incentives to invest in real estate because of that. And then the other is just like, it's fun. For me, it's fun. I enjoy it. Besides the day-to-day, you know, we've got the day-to-day business and it's like, all right, well, if there's a blip in that or a downturn, what can you have, you know, as your backup plan or something that's still generating monthly cash flow plus still building long-term net worth and ultimate wealth and something maybe that you can hand off to your kids someday type of stuff. And so our first property was a fourplex and it was an absolute nightmare. I was like, this is not what I thought it was. This is not what I read in the books about investing in real estate was a pain in the butt. You know, tenants are calling and it was just so much work. It was not worth it. So we ended up selling that fourplex and I was like, all right, there's got to be a way to do this. So I started kind of researching it more and I kept trying to figure it out. Like, what is the angle? What is the play here? And I, you know, I discovered commercial real estate. I'm like, okay, well instead of dealing with tenants that can't afford to pay rent and they're just trashing the place. Like commercial tenants should be better. You know, these are business owners and I already have good relationships with business owners. I know how to, you know, talk to them since I'm also a business owner. And so, you know, we got our first commercial building and that was going great. And then we had a banker come to us with another commercial property and this was a triple net lease and it was leased to a national tenant. That was a medical plasma center. I was like, oh yeah, this looks like a great opportunity as well. Ran the numbers and everything, and then we purchased it and I didn't know what triple net lease is. Do you know what triple net lease means?

No. Walk us through.

All right. So triple net lease is the tenant. The three nets is the tenant pays for the property taxes, That's the first one. The second one is they pay for the insurance. And then the third one is they pay for all the maintenance. And when I heard that, I was like, wait, is this real? Does this actually happen? Because it was like the complete opposite of that fourplex, right? Like the fourplex, I was paying for the taxes, I was paying for the insurance, and then I was paying for all the maintenance and all the headaches that went with it. And so this property, I literally didn't even get— I don't even have keys to it. And because the tenant takes care of everything, I don't have to go to the property. I don't even have to talk to the tenant. They pay rent on the first of every month, and then we pay the mortgage to the bank, and then everything left over is our profit that we can use to either buy more properties or to use for vacation or whatever we want to do with it. So I was like, wow, this is it. This is the side of real estate that I need to get into because my time and focus is on 1-800-T-Shirts, and this will allow allow us to grow the passive income on the backside while still maintaining the day-to-day of the main business that I'm running. And so we added a few more properties, founded a few more triple net lease, and then the downturn hit during COVID in 2020 and we saw a big hit in the t-shirt business. But during that time, the real estate was rock solid just because of our diversification of tenants and stuff like that. And I'm like, all right, we're still getting payments and everything coming in from the real estate. We're still making money there. And that was really subsidizing the downturn of the t-shirt business. And so from then I was like, all right, I've got to double down on this real estate and really put a lot more into it to make sure that we've got that cushion, we've got that backstop, and I don't ever have to worry about a downturn in the main business again. And so coming out of COVID 2021, we really went hard on the real estate, bought, oh gosh, I think 6 or 7 properties in 2021. Again in 2022, another, you know, 5 or 6, 7 properties. And at that point we were running out of capital to do them on our own. So I was like, all right, I've got to tell other people about this because it's like when you drive down the street, you just assume that Starbucks and Arby's and McDonald's and Applebee's, like you assume they own their own real estate, but that's the type of real estate we're buying. Like they're our tenants now. So it's crazy. Like, it's like I go into Starbucks and get a coffee and Starbucks is paying me rent every month. Like they're paying for free coffee basically. Right? So it's crazy to think that they could be our tenants. And so we started bringing on investors. So like, all right, I've got to tell other people about this. So, you know, other business business owners, other people looking to generate passive income in the same way I did. We basically brought in as partners, as investors in these properties. And so for the last 5 years, we've just continually been growing this, adding more properties every year, adding more investors to share in that. It's fun to win, but it's a lot better and a lot more fun to win with friends and other people that we can do it with. So, you know, it's just a great way. It's like in some ways the income is, you know, surpassing the main active business. So our passive income is surpassing that right now, but we love the active business. I love the t-shirt business so much that, you know, we continue to do it and we continue to operate both, you know, at a high level.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, that's the power of diversification with sophistication. I mean, you build the foundation for 1-800-T-SHIRT. And then you've diversified into real estate. That's pretty smart. Appreciate you walking us through a mini masterclass on real estate. And yeah, I think it's a very powerful vehicle and I love the fact that you're not doing single family, multifamily, whole shebang. I mean, there has been a lot of volatility in that space, you know, overvalued properties and whatnot. You're in the commercial where there is higher rent collection and low issues to deal with and the triple net like you talked about. That's pretty intense. Thanks for sharing. And the fact that it comes with tax benefit and can surpass your active income, that's something most Americans can lean into, hopefully with Passport Landlords. So walk us through, you do a lot of physical activities. I see you running, like posting screenshots of you, like running for 30 miles sometimes. I'm like, I don't think I've taken that big of a run in my lifetime. Like, why do you do that? Like, why are you a marathoner and how does that help you as an individual?

So I like to run long distances and, you know, I started, so I started with 5K. We were printing t-shirts for local 5K race and I did it and I'm super competitive. So then a couple weeks later we're doing t-shirts for another 5K. I did it again. And after that signed up for a half marathon with my wife. We completed that, then signed up for a full marathon. And then I discovered this thing called ultra marathons, which is 1,500-mile races.

Races.

And if you can imagine running 100 miles at one time, it's absolutely insane. And it probably, like, I still, like, it's hard to break down and think about doing, but the fascination I like with it is no matter how hard you train, you never know what's going to happen. So it's kind of like business. No matter how much you learn, how much you've studied, how much you've done different things in the past, Every day is a different situation and you're going to come up with challenges. You're going to face hardships. You're going to face different things that you've got to figure out along the way. You've got to pivot, you've got to make fast decisions and you got to get through them and you can't let the stress or, you know, let what's happening in front of you, you know, derail you from your mission and your goals with the business. And the same goes for running. So, So, you know, preparing for a 100-mile race, it's the same thing. Like, no matter how much I prepare, I get to the starting line, I know my vision, I know my goal is the finish line, but I have no clue over those next 100 miles what obstacles are going to pop up, what areas I'm going to have to pivot, what I'm going to have to change on my game plan, and what I'm going to have to do to keep moving forward and to get to that finish line and get to that goal that I've set. So I think that's what fascinates me is like, seeing what's possible, knowing that, you know, no matter how much you prepare, there's always something that's going to come up. And then, um, pushing myself mentally, physically, and emotionally to the breaking point, or what my perceived breaking point is, um, currently. And then raising the bar on all those thresholds, because like once those are raised, then you've got a new threshold, and the next race you can raise it one more And every time you raise that threshold up mentally, physically, emotionally, anything you do after that in life becomes much easier because your threshold is built higher. The same goes in business. Like if you think about the first time you made a big sale or you made $100,000 or you made $1 million, that first one seemed like this huge threshold, this huge goal that was like, that was the ceiling, right? But then as you go up and as you keep building and growing, all of a sudden, you know, if your new threshold is at $5 million or $10 million or $15 million, you look back at that $100,000 or that first million, you're like, I know how to do a million real quick now because I've pushed that threshold up. And also, when you're working on those problems or different things with clients, or so you get stuck on a sales thing to make $100,000, it's way easier to make when your threshold's way higher, just from a mental mental and emotional standpoint, it triggers different things. So I always look at it for growth and when I've pushed that threshold up, so during COVID I'll go back to COVID, a lot of people were super stressed out. They were like, oh my gosh, my business is melting down and the world shut down and like, what am I going to do? They're just super stressed out. And I'm just like, I had zero stress, zero anxiety. I was not worried at all because I'm like, all right, we can figure this out. This is, this is like an obstacle at mile 65 in a 100-mile race. Like, we're gonna just figure this out one day at a time. And in a race, it's like one mile at a time. So I don't look at the full 100 miles. It's like, all right, I have to run mile 1 first, and then I've got to get to the next mile. And I, I only have to worry about the next, you know, step, the next mile in front of me. I don't have to worry about the other 98. And I do the same in business. Like, yeah, I, I have a 5-year plan, I've got a 3-year plan, I don't have to worry about what's going to happen 3 years from now. What I got to figure out is, all right, what's going to happen a year from now? What's going to happen this month, this quarter, and today? And if I can keep doing those things daily to work toward the quarterly and, you know, the annual goal, I know I'm going to get to that finish line of the 3 and the 5-year goal. And I've worked that same process in a race as well. So it, it all correlates together and the more I I build up this, those muscles and just like the, the, uh, self-discipline of putting in the work of, you know, of making it happen, all that, that self-discipline and those habits kind of ring through of everything in life.

I love that. I mean, I kind of see how you're comparing ultra marathon running to the business and building that tenacity and, uh, you know, indefatigability to just keep pushing through and building that muscle to stay stronger when hard time comes. And I really, really like that perspective. And I don't think like everybody like should or shouldn't do something, but it's all about picking something which is hard and just doing it because now your brain is trained to do hard things and that same behavior will show up in business. And I can completely agree with that point. And I totally love the fact that you highlighted it. I have a different set of questions, Tom, for you. Walk us through the typical tools you use on a daily basis to manage your personal productivity, your clients, and whatnot.

Yeah, mainly G Suite, you know, everything, Google Docs, Gmail. I try to keep it as simple as possible. You know, there's not a lot of others, you know, we've got a few other things out there, but more and more as, you know, the business grows and the real estate portfolio grows and, you know, multiple businesses and things with family and travel and everything else, I just revert back to like, how do we make this as simple as possible? You know, there, there was a time when, you know, we're, we're running like Slack and all these different, like a million different things and it, it just got way too complicated. So we try to dial it down and, and just simplify as much as possible. Find what, find out what's working, um, what can be the most versatile and just stick with that.

Hmm. Makes sense. Walk us through an average day of yours. Like how does an average day of Tom looks like?

Yeah, it's, it's different every day, but. Wake up early, get a run in, come home, help my wife get the kids ready for school, take the kids to school, drop them off. And then throughout the day, it's a mix of meetings, meetings, doing some podcasts, trying to figure out what we need done from a strategic level, what relationships we can be building, and just what ways we can keep pushing the businesses forward. Sometimes if there's a real estate deal in there, Um, you know, I'll be working on that a little bit, but really just every day is, is really different. And I think that's what also has kept it fresh and kept it going. There's no predictable day. So as I go in, it's like, I don't know what's going to happen today. I know I've got a to-do list. I know, you know, I've got a few meetings on the docket, but something's always going to pop up. Someone's going to come in my office. I'm going to get a phone call I'm not expecting, and we're just going to figure it out as we go.

Makes sense. Also, we talked an interesting topic, if you remember, which is about mergers and acquisitions. And walk us through, you've done a pretty smart acquisitions, you know, in your own t-shirt business as well, including name. Give us a quick rundown on what's that like to, to do an acquisition in a very smart manner where you're basically winning the deal at a so, so good strategic acquisition, I should say.

Yeah. So we've acquired 8 other t-shirt companies and including, you know, that's how we got the domain and the intellectual property for 1-800-T-SHIRT. And, you know, I think it's just looking at, you know, opportunities that are out there, finding ones that align with you. So, you know, we found other ones, whether it's local companies or, you know, ones that were bigger than us or same size and finding that alignment in what they're doing. Maybe it's different than us, maybe it's the same. What their customer base look like. Is it different? Is it the same? What would this look like if it merged together? What's their equipment look like? Do they have employees? All those sorts of things. There's a lot of different factors that go into it. It's not just like, oh, hey, you know, I see, I see this all the time on, on social media of like, you know, people promoting buying businesses. And the bigger the business, the more complex it is. And there's a lot of moving parts and there's a lot that goes into it, not just the financial aspect of it. Now there's the culture, there's the equipment, there's inventory, there's the customers first and foremost, right? Like you need that revenue and the customers to come with as well. But I've learned a lot throughout the years. I've learned, you know, a lot of times a lot of businesses we've looked at are overvalued and, you know, it just has to be a right fit. It's a good way though to expand, to find other areas the business can grow, to find some new markets, to find some new products. And so I really liked take that as a growth tool, and we're going to be focusing a little bit more on that, you know, as we continue to grow as well.

Makes sense. Love that. If you could go back and talk to 20-year-old Tom, what would be the number one suggestion you would give yourself?

Yeah, I think if I could go back, you know, I learned a lot of lessons those first 5 years grinding it out, but I was working, gosh, 18 to 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, and and really just trying to build that foundation. So I learned a lot of lessons building that foundation. I built up a lot of tenacity, but if I could go back, I would've worked for somebody else as an apprentice and learned lessons on their dime instead of on my own. And I probably would've got, you know, probably would've grew a lot faster. So learning from someone that's been there, done that. I also would've outsourced more stuff. So found the right partners to outsource to build that growth instead of trying to do it all myself. So I was, you know, I was customer service and I was sales and I was accounting and bookkeeping and graphic design and printing the shirts and folding them and every department, right? So it was like, well, if I would've just focused on sales and marketing, I could have outsourced the production to, you know, somebody else that has this big factory, you know, printing the t-shirts. And so I think I think figuring out like where your strong suits are and focusing on that and then hiring, whether it's agencies or manufacturers or somebody else to outsource the other areas of the business that, you know, you're not as strong in. So if I could go back, I would've said like, listen, focus on what you love doing and what you're really good at, and then outsource everything else.

Makes sense. If you have to talk a little bit about your biggest achievement, What would that be and what are your next big goals?

Gosh, I think the biggest achievement is the amount of impact we've been able to make on our community and the charities and nonprofits that we work with. You know, I'm just really proud of that, like what we've been able to give back, the impact we've been able to make and in lots of lives, you know, beyond ours. So that's definitely our biggest achievement. Goals for the future, you know, it's just continue learning, continue growth. Both continue to go after those goals and not resting on past successes. So, you know, those goals are, you know, doing it to the fullest and, you know, finding the right people, you know, bringing our friends and family along for the ride to enjoy it and, you know, doing it, uh, you know, so two kids now and love, you know, sharing that journey with them and, you know, them being a part of it as well.

Love that. If you can save us, you know, from repeating the mistake, the biggest mistake you probably made, what would that be like?

Like, I mean, there's, there's a lot of mistakes, right? And I don't know, I just look at each one as a learning experience. And, you know, I feel like everything happens for a reason and those mistakes help shape us or help send us on, you know, a different path. So I feel like everyone has, has helped lead us to where we are right now.

Hmm. Interesting. Okay. That's really helpful. What's your main inspiration for success? What excites you to wake get to work, take those hard phone calls and do the hard work required to continue to grow the business or find the next real estate deal and whatnot? What inspires you?

[Speaker:ASH BENNINGTON] Just to see what's possible. So we've reached, we set big goals, we reach those goals, we keep moving that goalpost farther down. And so I think just to like keep leveling up to another level and and making sure that like we're still having fun when we're doing it. So I think the biggest thing is like, all right, we make it a game. Like how can we keep beating the game? How can we keep, you know, getting the high score and how can we keep having fun while we're playing this game?

Love that. Tom, if anybody's looking at this podcast, maybe they wanna buy some t-shirts from you or maybe they wanna connect, what's the best place for them to shake hands with you?

Yes. Uh, 1-800-T-Shirts.com. You can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube @1800tshirts. And my personal handle is @tomround247.

Love that. Any last words to conclude the podcast?

Yeah. Appreciate you listening and appreciate you for everything you do and inspiring me for all you've accomplished. And I'm so glad that we got a chance to connect and get to know each other.

That's so fun. Thanks once again, Tom, for giving your valuable time and sharing a lot of learnings. And guys, hopefully you enjoyed and learned a lot about how to build a successful B2B e-com business and the ups and downs of building businesses in the longer run in entrepreneurship. We talked a lot about passion, purpose, giving back, and many more insightful suggestions from Tom's journey. And I hope you continue to learn. Make sure to share this podcast if this was valuable and stay tuned for another episode of Nikhil Sai Show. I'll be back with another amazing guest just like Tom. Tom, once again, thanks for jumping in.