How to Go From Feeling Behind in Business to Getting Unexpected Clients w. DEFY Member Sarah Sturm

In 48 hours went from this lens of nothing's gonna work out for me to everything's gonna work out for me. Welcome back to another episode of the Yes And Podcast. I am your host and serial entrepreneur, 19 companies. No, I'm lying to you. 16 companies in 21 years. Retired therapist, retired stuntwoman, Army wife, mother of 4 beautiful children. And, you know, as a side hustle, like, you're host of the Yes And podcast. And the Yes And podcast is my love notes out into the world, and it's my reminder, my little sugar-coated butt-kicking, to let you know you are not bad at business. You are just not meant to do business and life the way that everybody says that you're supposed to do it. Yes, you are a unicorn, and you deserve to know all of the behind the scenes of how I have built this life so you can build whatever version of this life. It is for you. And I want to tell you, that is not what my podcast producer had written for the intro to my podcast for this season or for this episode. However, after recording this episode, I wanted to re-record this intro and deliver this to you because this was such an edge for me. I recorded this episode with a current Defy Unicorn. Her name is Sarah, and everything from asking her to record the episode to crying during this episode to her sharing how she perceived me, how she perceived the container. P.S., it's not all rainbows and butterflies. There are a healthy amount of "F you, Bunny" in this episode. Like, the edge that this episode and this conversation brought me to is something that I cannot wait to share with you. And so from the bottom of my heart, I truly hope that you Enjoy, like curl up on your couch or in the car, wherever you're listening to this, with a juicy cocktail, mocktail, warm, delicious drink, because this is one of the best episodes of the Yes And Podcast. Here we go. Well, okay, so this started from a conversation that we literally had last week. It was last week, wasn't it? It like feels like it was yesterday and it feels like it was forever.

Yeah. Not even a full week ago though. I don't think.

So, doesn't matter. Yeah. I wanna go back in this time machine though. I wanna go back, like I, I'm gonna go back in the time machine twice. There's two different places that I wanna go. So first I wanna orient everybody to, you and I went on a walk in the park.

Mm-hmm.

Like literally in the park. Where you were taking me through kind of this tension that you had between this life that you were living and this life that you wanted to have. And some of the things that you had said is like, I just— you didn't feel like you should be where you were.

Totally.

Can you like take us back to that moment in this time machine and kind of share? Because you're not alone. A, I've had this feeling. But B, like a lot of your clients have this feeling and a lot of the people listening to this podcast have this feeling. So like what was going through your head?

In that moment, in that conversation, I just felt like I had failed at all of these goals that I had for my business and my life and all the things that I imagined I would be able to do when I became an entrepreneur, all of this freedom that I wanted and how much I wanted to help people. With the things that I had learned that had changed my life and how I felt like I just wasn't meeting my own expectations. And it was very, it was very real in that moment and has been real at many other times, but that wasn't a new feeling for me. Like that was kind of at the source of what I've always struggled with is always feeling like I was behind, like I wasn't doing enough. There wasn't, you know, enough progress that I was making and, you know, missing where I actually was in that moment, which was we were on a great walk with, you know, great weather and barking dogs.

Yes. Yes. And, you know, so you at that time had a job and you also had where this company that I was first introduced to through you. Yeah. In the health and wellness space, and you had told me, you're like, I'm not doing anything with it. I think that those were like your exact words, like, I'm not, I'm not doing anything with it. And I think you told me that you like felt like a failure, and I was like, well, why aren't you doing anything with it? And you just kind of looked at me like with what came lovingly we refer to as the F you Bunny Young look.

You get that a lot.

I do.

I do.

I actually do. A lot of, a lot of people give me the F you, Bunny Young. Look, I felt like it was a really valid question. Like, what was your answer?

I don't remember in that moment. I just know that it was feeling like there was something else that I was being pulled to. It wasn't that I didn't still believe in that company or the products and really value the, things that it brought into my life. It just wasn't what I was passionate about in the same way that I had started out. Yeah.

And so you had almost zero monthly recurring revenue from, from that, and you had the J-O-B. Was it almost zero? Correct me.

No, um, I mean, I have consistently always had some revenue there. It just had not grown. I had not grown it to the point that I thought I was going to. So there was always some and this, you know, has always been just because of what I had built, but not to the point that I expected it to be.

And so my, my zero came from you adding at that moment, right?

Right, exactly.

Yeah. So there wasn't anything new that you were adding into it, right, at that moment? Correct. Okay. Correct. Because the reason that I'm making it a zero right now is because I do want you to share, like, I do want you to share, like, how A— after this transformation that you did, and that's the other thing that I wanna make sure that I'm like super clear about, is that everything that we're talking about on this journey, like, I'm not taking credit for. And I know that you know that, but I also just wanna be super clear in the aspect that, you know, like, there was a shift and because of that shift, there's a lot of different things that, that you were able to do in your life. And another thing that we talked about on that walk, and we've talked about several times, is that you're not that company and you're not that product, and that the people that trust you trust you, and that's why they buy the product, that's why they invest in that company. And so if people are making that decision because they trust you, they're trusting you with something other than just buying the product. And so we landed on the coaching and we landed on the health aspect of it, and I reflected back to you that I trusted you and ended up signing up with somebody else for that same product because of the initial conversation that you and I had, that if you hadn't planted the seed, I wouldn't have even remembered or known or been familiar with that product. And then years later, left a freaking doctor, like a naturopath, to come back to your wellness and trusting you because of who you are. And I'm like, if that's true for me, and one would assume that I'm, I'm not an idiot, like, and I'm not, I'm pretty brilliant.

Yes, I would agree.

Then there's however many other women and people that want to listen to you and trust you about your knowledge and your wisdom in this space. And so how How was it hearing that on the walk versus me saying it today? What's changed in how you hear that?

So it's funny because you remember so many more details about that conversation than I do. I don't remember specifics about that conversation. I just remember that I felt very alone and I felt very disappointed in myself, but also like I didn't really have anybody that understood where I was coming from that I could trust to share the challenges I was facing and not judge me or try to make my discomfort go away. And what I remember from that walk is just feeling like you got it, even if you didn't know the details, that you could listen to me and you could also challenge me at the same time without making me feel judged. So I don't remember the details of that conversation. I just remember that feeling of trust in you. Which I think is what you just said you also had in me. So I think that's a really great example of how much I trusted you to be a source of support to help me see things that I couldn't see in myself. Yeah. So hearing all of that now is, for me, just a really great reminder of how important support is, even if it doesn't always, like, make sense. I'm very analytical. You know, background is finance and accounting, and I want to make sense of everything with my intellectual mind. And it's not always going to make sense, but I can feel when I feel drawn in a direction or not, or when something feels like it's a good fit. And it just, it lands differently today because I've been able to see how much I've grown and changed in the time that we've, you know, the time that's passed that we've worked together since that conversation took place. And still, I recognize that You know, even I guess it's 14 years into this entrepreneurial journey, I still feel like I'm very much just getting started. Yeah. Yeah, me too.

And I have 7 years on top of that 14 years. So, you know, 21 years later and I still am like, is this the next level? Is this the next level? Like, you know, that's that daily practice, the energetic practice of being enough while still wanting more. Yes, you know, and I, I should mention that when I asked Sarah to do this podcast recording, she's in the middle of a freaking move, and so she's like got a million other things going on, and she just said, I'm gonna fully trust, I'm gonna say yes, and it's super uncomfortable that I'm saying yes. And so I just want to celebrate you because that's not the first time that you've said yes and been super uncomfortable. And, you know, I know that sometimes that also comes with FU Bunny look, um, which is great in the most loving way. You're not alone in, in a lot of the things that you shared. And what's interesting is that I remember that when we went on that walk, when you asked me to go on that walk, I had no idea at that time, A, what you were looking for, and B, that we were going to end up having the conversation about joining Defy. And it's funny because even as you were telling me how you were feeling or what you can remember about going into that walk, I'm like, how is Defy a solution? And I kind of laugh thinking about the aspect that you trusted me, we found a solution that was you not being alone, and it's so much more than business. And so, like, Why? Why did you decide that that was going to be the solution after the walk?

Again, I don't know that I knew. I didn't. I mean, I had heard you talk about DEFY, but I didn't even know what it was. I had like no context, really. And, you know, to put it in perspective, we had worked together years ago, but it had been years. And, you know, aside from a few, you know, random run-ins at the mall or texts here and there, I really didn't even see a lot of stuff that was happening on social media with you at the time. So like, I mean, there were just all these little random touchpoints, but every time one would happen, it would just be like, well, honestly, sometimes it would be a trigger moment of like, whoa, like, this is making me uncomfortable, the way that you were showing up. And then there were other times when I was able to recognize like, this is making me uncomfortable because I see how your, like, progress was different than mine. And I saw how you were shifting and changing and growing in your own journey. So there was this balance for me of like, I know that I trust you, and yet I also recognize that this is challenging for me to show up in. And so kind of like agreeing to do this conversation today was like very similar in that, right? Like recognizing this balance between you know, accepting where I am and being, um, you know, willing to accept myself in this moment and also challenge myself to get uncomfortable and grow. And that was what I guess you represented, to kind of put it in broad stroke terms. And I had no idea what Defy was or that I wanted it, and certainly, you know, how to fit it into my life and my budget and my time schedule at the time was a All of that was a challenge. But it was, it was again, it was you. It was knowing who you were and knowing that I could trust you to be a source of support on the journey that I was on, even if I didn't know what that looked like.

I think about when you said the touchpoints, I think about this is something that I, I think I said to you on the walk, but I know I've said it to you recently, is the time that I ran into you at the mall and you were leaving your J-O-B, and I don't remember if I was going into that store or if like, I don't remember, even remember what I was doing, but obviously like you saw me and knew it was me. And, and I'm like, what is it? What are the odds?

Right.

And the odds were that I was supposed to be there at that exact moment and you were supposed to be there at that exact moment. And all of the trust that you have shared that you have in me, not only do I receive that, and I also receive the honor of being the mirror as you have grown your trust in yourself.

Yeah.

You know, and watched, you know, that every single time that I pop back in your life was you manifesting. It, it feels interesting to tell you, like, you manifested me, and you did. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, for me, it makes me think of how often when I just step back a moment and like breathe and relax, that like things happen, things show up, like the magic of life, just kind of all the things just start to fall into place. And I can trust that one step after another. And it was like, you know, I think back to many, many years ago when I would see someone who maybe had a similar place in my life as you did where, you know, I really admired all the things that I'd seen you create and also recognized how you'd been a trigger for me there, you know, decades ago. I may have avoided saying hello to you or avoided being seen and just recognizing even that I'm not that person and that I embrace those moments kind of makes me laugh now, but also feel really proud of how much I have grown as well.

Yeah, I mean, I told you last week, like, just seeing how much you have grown since September. So I, I want to go back to— let's get very, very uncomfortable conversation. I don't know that that's true, um, but it was very uncomfortable.

It was very uncomfortable. The epitome, it's like one of the top. Yeah, yeah.

So it was August of last year, so in Defy We have an in-person retreat and we have a virtual retreat, and it was the first time ever that we'd done the in-person retreat at my house in California. And I did this virtual retreat as well. And for those of you listening that don't know, I have a brain injury, and so I'm setting up this computer to have these virtual amazing individuals— Sarah's one of them— that's on the computer. I'm trying to get the mic right, you know, I'm trying to get the multiple computers and screens so you guys have different POVs, like What, what on earth am I trying to do to myself? As well as making sure that microphones are muted so there's not echoing. So you guys are having this really great experience. I'm trying to keep everything on time so that, you know, you have your potty breaks and you're laughing at me right now, but like, you know, this is like everything that's going on.

It's a lot.

And man, and like, you can attest to the fact that I leave it all on the floor. Like no matter what I'm doing. I'm, I'm there to overdeliver. I leave it all on the floor. So we do this 2-day virtual event, in-person event with this virtual option. And I went to bed that night in tears being like, I, I like, my body was shaking because of the amount of energy that it took to try to divide myself into 2 foci, like to make sure that I was focused on you guys and pouring into you guys and then keeping you engaged. And then the tech technical side of the management. And even though you reflected back that it was an incredible experience for you and you felt like you were there and you felt like it was great, um, and the individuals that were there in person didn't feel like it, you know, broke away from them— I think even some of them took you to lunch, like took the screens with them to lunch so you could be a part of the conversation. The community in Defy is like unmatched. It's amazing. It's incredible. Um, And we can talk about that in a little bit, but like for me, I, my nervous system was done. I remember going to bed crying and my hands shaking just like with the amount of tension that I was holding, trying to keep everything together. And so it didn't matter that you said it was great. It didn't matter that anybody else said it was great. The cost was too high to me. And so I made a really big, uncomfortable decision that the next year, which was last year, we would only do in-person. So we would have a virtual retreat where I could hold and facilitate fully virtually, which we did in April, I think. And then we did an in-person retreat in September. And I had a conversation with you in August where I had to, like, I guess I had not made it clear, even though I said in-person retreat, I didn't make it clear to anybody who had participated last year that there was not going to be a virtual option. So I get this message from you and you're like, yeah, I'm going to have to attend virtually. And I was like, eee! Like brakes, add in like the screeching halts sound effect right here. And I'm like, Sarah, I love you. And I have to be really honest with you. There's not a virtual option this year. Like I can't do it. And just so you know, I want you to hear me when I say there was at least 8 times before sending that message where I was like, No, you can do it again. You could do it. Come on, Bunny, you can do it. You can do it. Like, don't disappoint Sarah. Don't do this. Don't break her heart. And then I had to be honest that like the best thing that I could do for me, and therefore the best thing I could do for the group, was to only focus on in-person. Um, I had to get all the coffee mugs together, Sarah.

There's a lot of coffee mugs.

That's true, there's a lot of coffee mugs this year. Um, and I had that conversation with you. I felt like I broke your heart, and I felt like you were really angry with me. And I remember having this energy that we talked about, like, from the ranch when we did the equine retreat, of just having to hold. And like, this is a boundary, and I have to hold, and it doesn't matter how much Like, I'm perceiving your pain and I'm perceiving your anger. Like, those are things that I can hold for you to, for you to process, but I can't fold and, you know, manage your emotions and be responsible for your emotions. So we had that conversation and I let you know it wasn't going to be virtual. And the next conversation that we have, you were calling me to say you were out, like F to Fi. Yeah. F the group. You weren't gonna do it anymore. Yes.

Yes.

And then what happened?

So I wanna back up just a little bit and just say that before we had that exchange about the retreat being only in person, not virtual, I was feeling very disappointed in myself again and very very triggered by a lot of the things that I saw other people doing and accomplishing that I was not feeling good enough to, to match up to. And I know there were lots of times when I had messaged you individually and said, like, I have to check out because, like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel good right now. And, you know, I was going through my own stuff. And so that like tension and that wall that you felt come up when we had that conversation was very much me digging my heels in and saying, no, absolutely. Like, this is more proof that this is not right for me, that this is not working for me.

Well, hold on, hold on. Can we slow it down for a second?

Yes.

No, of course. Because I want you to really land this because some of the things that you and I talked about you doing is what other people listening need to hear. Like multiple tabs open, camera off. Like, those were the things that— and you weren't consciously doing it. I know you weren't consciously choosing it, but you were taking yourself out. Yep. Do you want to speak to that?

Absolutely. Um, I mean, I think it was a lot of being uncomfortable with where I was, and it's like this You know, momentum builds. Whatever you're doing, whatever you're focused on, whatever's consistent just builds that momentum. And so like, the more I stayed in this space of, you know, noticing all the ways that other people were succeeding and I wasn't, or they were showing up in this way that I wasn't. And, you know, I had and still have taken a break from some of the traditional social media. So like, I was hearing a lot of people talk about things that they were doing in spaces that I had chose to remove myself from. And so feeling like I was constantly Constantly, like, missing out just made me want to retreat more. And it was almost like you saying, "Well, the retreat's gonna be in person only, not virtual," was like just another way that it was like I was being removed from the room. Because at the time, I couldn't conceive it was possible for me to physically get there, especially with such a short window. I think we were talking maybe 5 weeks before the event was gonna take place. It felt impossible. So it was like more proof, like, you know, all the reasons of why, like, these are my limitations, this is why I can't, this is what's not working, this is why it won't, like, these are all the reasons. I have every reason in the book, and they may all be completely valid and justified, but like, those were the only things that I was seeing and focused on. And in a lot of ways, that kept me safe. It kept me from feeling uncomfortable, like having this conversation when I'm in the middle of a move and all the other things happening. In, you know, my life.

And it's— so that goes back to the walk conversation, right? Because it's not like you had a disposable— like, Defy's a $15,000 program, and it's not like you had a disposable $15K like sitting in your account just earmarked for this. Like, you had to make a decision to do this, and when you did, there was that transformation. And now you are back. Like, that's a really important part, that you made the decision once. It didn't mean you didn't have to make the decision again. And then you just said you had to make the decision between last week and today. Yeah, to do this. And so we had that conversation, and one of the things that I really want to go back to is in that conversation, you were able to identify there was a piece of you that was choosing to see, but that wasn't actually your entire reality. And like you said, you know, your ego, or that, that part of you, that identity that was saying like, no, you know, like, there's no way, was coming from that, that reality, like that previous reality. And, you know, we had this conversation, let's like just take a deep breath, where it's like, your past doesn't need you anymore, your future does. And you made the decision to fly across the country and be in that room. And then, wait for it, wait for it, for those of you listening, it wasn't a happy ending because the first day all I got were "F you, Bunny" looks. And you and I had a conversation outside saying like, this is the exact place I was talking to you on the phone when you made this decision. And it was the same coaching that I gave myself when I went to that event that I shared with you. Where I'm like, either you're gonna be here or go home. Like, you can't be here and hold yourself back. I want to know— I like selfishly, this is being selfish— I want to know what happened on the phone with me where you were like, you mean this? Oh yeah, you know what, actually I'm not gonna quit you, I'm just gonna fly out and be in your house, right?

Okay, so that conversation was not quite that clear, and I was not that clear when we ended that conversation. I just remember you saying to me how much it had been a challenge for you the year before doing both. And, you know, it made me feel like I could understand why you had made that choice. And it was less personal at that point. Not that I thought your whole plans to, you know, force me to come to California were, you know, all about me. However, It was. It was like, I could, I could understand that that was the thing that was right for you to do. And again, like another example, it's so funny recognizing this as we break it down, like that's you holding a boundary to take care of yourself and not like sacrifice your own well-being just to accommodate someone else, even if it is someone that you love as much as me. And that's is honestly something that I've struggled with in life and business. So having that example was extremely hard to see and was also, you know, while I was saying the words like, I don't think Defy is a good fit for me, I'm not coming to California, I don't have the money, I don't have the time off from work, like it's too soon, like basically no to all of it. You heard me, you celebrated me for being uncomfortable in having the conversation with you, which was valid because I recognized when I started to have those feelings that I could also choose to like just kind of quietly disappear and, you know, hide, which is honestly what I've done with tons of other programs that I've joined with, you know, big names, big groups of people where you can do that. You can disappear and nobody really notices. And I recognized that I could quietly disappear or I could come to you and I could share with you what was going on. And that I needed to say out loud what I was going through because that was part of my pattern was, you know, hiding from the discomfort, trying to find a way to distract from what I could actually change by getting caught up in all the things that were wrong and just proving that over and over again. And so, you know, when we got off the phone, the Zoom, I still didn't plan to come to California. Like, it wasn't really in the cards. But at some point over the next day or two, I looked online at what a flight might cost, and it was a lot less expensive than I had expected. And then I started looking at Airbnb. And, you know, I'm packing, so I don't have like my notebook, but I have like a bullet journal where I make notes with pen and paper, the old-fashioned way, when I'm doing something. And I know there's a note in there that like goes through some of the price points that I was finding because I was like, okay, Hey, these are what the prices of these things look like now. If I check back in a couple days and, you know, I'm ready to make this commitment, is this going to be within this amount of money that I feel like is reasonable that I can actually commit to? And it was. So like within, I think, 48 hours, maybe 72 hours of us having that conversation, I had booked the flight, booked the Airbnb, and put in a request for time off at work. And what was really funny to me is that I actually got denied taking the time off at work. I don't know if you remember this part.

Yes.

But when I got like this note from my manager basically saying, yeah, like there's other stuff going on, we can't give you that time off. And I remember having this conversation and saying, I get it, and I also need to let you know that I won't be here. Like, I have this other thing and I'm going to be there. I will do my best to find someone else to fill in for me or whatever, but like, I'm not going to be here.

It became your non-negotiable.

Exactly.

You set that boundary. And it was such a shift, right?

It was a complete shift for me. And I remember the feeling of even like surprise for myself, realizing how quickly I had gone from 'No, absolutely not. I am checking out' to 'I am digging my heels in on the fact that this is uncomfortable and that is why I need to do it.' Yes, but it became your non-negotiable.

And then everything, everything that you were looking at from in 48 hours went from this lens of 'Nothing's going to work out for me' to 'Everything's going to work out for me.' And I mean, We talk about it still today of like how quickly you just made that shift. And then in the next— the, the ironic thing is in the next couple weeks leading up to the retreat, you're like, this person just messaged me randomly and they want to put an order in. Like, like it just, it kept dominoing. And we hear about these stories and like these social media clips and these highlights of like how it— but you were living it. You were living that experience, and it hasn't stopped.

Yeah, that's true, that's true. Um, and, and it was very surprising to me too because it was like, it didn't feel like it was related, like it wasn't directly connected, but I can see, and I can see this in hindsight and all sorts of different examples, but I can see how it was the energy and it's the way that I was starting to show up differently is like making space for all of these opportunities to just come, and people just started like showing up in ways that I never really dreamed of. It— I mean, it's just, it's weird. Or I shouldn't say weird, it's magic.

Yeah.

And it's—

you're, you're the thing, you're the thing that all of that has in common, like including this move. Like, it doesn't make sense from your past reality, but it made sense from your current reality, which is why in DEFY, the first thing that we did was our vision together. What do you want your life to look like in 12 months? Have you gone back to that?

No, I should do that.

I mean, you like let it shock you, right?

Yeah.

And I just want to make sure that like you take ownership, that you didn't just choose it once over that 48-hour period, like you chose it again at my house house, you know, that first day. Because I, like, I will never forget. I wish I had a picture to show you guys. Sarah's sitting on the couch with her arms across her chest, just staring at me down her nose. Like, I mean, she did all the things. She got there, she took the flight, she had the Airbnb. You're there in my living room, in my house. Like, I'm pouring into you and you're— the wall was still there because it was comfortable. Yeah, maybe not comfortable, but it was familiar. Yeah. And then I, like, I haven't seen that wall again. I haven't seen it. I'm not saying it hasn't been there, but I haven't seen it after that day when we had that conversation. But I just want to reflect back to you that, like, I feel like— oh my gosh, I'm gonna get so emotional right now. Is like, for the first time, I think that at that retreat is when I saw the trust that you had in me. You finally giving it to yourself, like that you were exactly, you are exactly where you're supposed to be.

It's difficult to find the words to explain the way that that experience felt and how much I could tell the difference between like being in the room with all of the incredible women that showed up at that event. And, you know, I think there's magic that we can do online. The, the opportunities that we have in virtual spaces is wonderful. And when there's an opportunity to dive a little deeper and get in person with someone, there's just a different level of connection and trust that can build. And the experiences with everyone that weekend were super uncomfortable for me and super heart-opening at the same time because it was like, it was like calling you or setting up the time to talk when I was gonna like check out of DEFY. It was like, I don't really want to do this, and yet I know that like whatever I need to get through. I have to do this in order to get through it. Like, it's not going to get any better. It's not going to shift unless I shift. And like, the trust that I had in you and putting that group together, in like hosting that space and just holding that like opportunity for us to really just all be together and realizing how much I had just made up all these stories in my head about what it meant because I was where I was instead of where I thought I should be. And yet all these people are looking at me and they just see where I am now. They have no, none of the judgments about where they think I should be because they don't know what's in my head about what I think I should be doing by now. Again, it's hard to put into words, but yes, you're absolutely right by saying like, I trusted you to just be real. And I think that's what it has come down to over and over again when I see The mirror that you have been is just like you being real and you showing up and you owning it and you saying out loud what your experience is. Yeah. It's like it constantly gives me permission to accept that about myself and not pretend that I'm anywhere other than where I'm supposed to be.

So there's two more things that I want to talk to you about. One is this relationship with sales that we had talked about. Where I had told you like, I don't sell anymore, I serve. And you kind of like the analytical mind looked at me like, what does that mean? Do you understand what that means now?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

What does it mean?

I mean, I think it's what you said even when we went on that walk together. There wasn't like— Defy wasn't the solution. I knew that you had other things since we had worked together years before, but I didn't know anything about Defy and I never got the feeling that you were taking me on a walk to try to get me to join Defy. Like, it was literally about like showing up and seeing what is, you know, what is this person doing? How do we fit? How, you know, all of the things. And so when I think about my own journey and, you know, starting with a product business in health and wellness and the shift and the graduation to coaching and doing more work that is like service-based instead of product-based is also uncomfortable, has been uncomfortable. But realizing more and more that when I can just have conversations with people and find out how I can help support them in some way, very much like you've done with me over the years, then, you know, if I have a solution, then I have a solution. Like, here's something that I think might help you. And then that person gets to determine whether it's something they want to move forward with or not. And it's not about trying to convince or manipulate or, you know, do anything that's sleazy that everybody thinks about when they think of sales. It really is about like showing up as me. And I think maybe that's part of also why I've always felt drawn to you is just how you are real about what you're doing, and I respect that a lot.

You, you replied to an email that I wrote shortly after our conversation about our conversation without using your name, and you said, this is me. Oh yeah, you're talking about me. And I said, yeah, because your story, my story, like, life is happening for a reason. And so at some point you just embody the thing that you're teaching others and you end up being a magnet to it. And like, that was my intention going on the walk was just to catch up with a friend and support a friend. But it's like, and I shared that with you where, you know, I've had friends be like, I don't want coach Bunny. I just want friend Bunny. I don't know, Sarah. I honestly don't know. How to be anybody other than me. And so if, if I'm sitting next to somebody on an airplane that's having like an existential business crisis, I'm like, why would I not offer them the oxygen mask that I built for myself? And what I want to ask you to share about, if you're open for it, is how, as you've begun to do that consistently, how your revenue and your relationship with money and your relationship with the clients that you're attracting has shifted?

I mean, I still feel like I'm in the messy middle of all of that, so I don't know that I have a great answer other than the fact that I do see lots of people that I had never imagined coming back into my world or like making referrals for me and mostly around the, the health and wellness business. But the difference in how I feel like I engage with that is very different than it used to be because I do recognize that my identity is not based around that company or around that product. It's who I am.

Basically what I've seen is you consistently showing up.

Yeah.

Instead of focusing on how can I consistently sell, how can I consistently make money, you have been super consistent in showing up and connecting And the messages that you've sent me and what I wanted you to share a little bit about the messages that you've sent me are like, this person signed up, like this person, you know, like wants to work together. This person, you know, the people that I think the first thing that you did was like, it was right after, I think it was right after Money Magic May last year where you just did an audio challenge like every single day.

I completely forgot about that.

But you had sent me this message that you were like, I don't even care if anybody signs up. Like I'm having fun doing this. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

What, what shifts with that energy and your revenue and your relationship with sales?

Yeah. So, I mean, everything, because it goes from, and kind of like I was saying about like what I'm digging my heels into, like feeling that sales is, is sleazy or manipulative or something to be avoided versus like recognizing that there's things that I have to share that people have told me are valuable for them, little things are just so natural about how I live my life and the way that I make choices that I regularly hear people say that helps them. So all of a sudden, when I saw your kind of example with Money Magic May last year, I was like, I can do that. Like, I'm comfortable on video and comfortable on audio. Like, I can just do a recording every day and just offer it to my email list, which is, you know, a small group of people. But I had— I don't remember what the percentage was now, but I had a really high, like, rate of people that actually enrolled and paid for that program. So it was not only fun, but it also reminded me that, you know, I could do a lot more with a lot less perfection, I guess, than I thought I had created. Because actually in the middle of that, and I had not thought that far ahead, but I actually had a trip to California in the middle of that 30-day program and didn't consider that when I made the commitment to the group that I was going to like post all the messages by, I think, like, you know, 8 a.m. Eastern or 10 a.m. Eastern or whatever. So I was like up at, you know, 5 a.m. in the morning in California recording all of these messages to make sure that everything got to the group on time. But it was just fun. And then the feedback that I got when people had even just a little small thing that they were able to put into practice in their own life that they saw create a shift was, was beautiful. Like, I mean, it felt like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm really serving people. It was great. It is great.

I love that. I love this energy and I know I have to let you go, but I want to ask you, how has the DEFY group been? I can't put this into words. So I want to hear it from you. And this is, again, me being selfish, but this also, I know, is something that I wish I could have shared with you. I wish I could have told you, you know, when you say you didn't know what DEFY was or, you know, that I even had DEFY, I wish I could share with more people what it's like being inside the room and how it is different from literally any other program or group that I've ever been a part of. So how would you describe that to somebody that's like, I don't know if this is for me?

I think it is the experience. It's like having the experience that is really challenging to put into words because it's something that you feel. And it's the space that feels like you can show up however you are. And being able to show up, whether it's, you know, in the room on Zoom or whether it's in your living room in California, being able to show up with the tears, show up with all of the insecurities and all of the fears and, you know, thoughts of failure. And have support that isn't trying to fix me, but is instead allowing me to, you know, recognize the strength that I have in myself and the support that is there for those little things, like those little nuggets that I shared in my audio challenge that people appreciated so much. It's those little things that I think we all can help mirror and see in each other. That makes everybody in the group stronger. And the more we all are there together and participate, the better it gets. And I don't know, it's just, it's amazing to me how much the group and the people in the group have made such an impact in my own journey because I have been part of so many different groups where you're right, I just have never felt that level of support. And it's not like we're in each other's inboxes every single day, but it's just a, It's just a different feeling. And I think it's because you set the tone from the way that you created it and the example that you set of how we're going to all show up and be ourselves and know that we're right where we're supposed to be. And we're also working to get to more.

Cameras on.

Cameras on. Yeah. Cameras on.

That's the one piece I want to challenge you about. Do you honestly think right now? That you could have just quietly slipped away and no one would have noticed, knowing our group and knowing me? Probably not.

Probably not.

I, I think that's something that is so incredible about our group is that we've kept it so small and so intimate in the aspect that, you know, it's— I mean, not necessarily small, but in comparison to the hundreds of Zoom boxes in other programs. I know individuals in Defy have checked on you, and I know individuals in Defy have also like reached out without prompting. And so I just think that's super incredible, and I wouldn't have let you quietly slip away. Clearly, clearly that would not have happened because I didn't, right?

Yeah.

So I'm glad. In case I haven't told you in the last 20 minutes, of how proud I am of you and how grateful I am for you being willing to— how does it feel to share your story with others?

It feels good. It feels good.

I know it didn't feel good going through it, but I really— like I told you, we came up with this idea in the parking lot, uh, last week. So I just want to thank you for being willing to share this and being willing to own it and being willing to share it with me too and trust me. And I am so effing proud of you. And I know that this year, which is, uh, year 3 of DEFY, right?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

We're going into year 3.

Holy cow.

Is like gonna be like no other. So, and I'll see you in my living room in California again in the fall. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a clear yes this time.

I love you. I'm so grateful.

I love you.

Thank you for being here. Absolutely.

Bye.

Woo! How was that? Yeah, I didn't lie to you when I said that was going to be juicy. So thank you for being here and watching the whole episode. I'm celebrating you being here. And if you absolutely enjoyed it as much as I did and enjoyed learning from make sure that you're following the show. Just go ahead and click subscribe to make sure that you're the first one to get a notification the second that we drop another episode, another season, whatever it is. I'm telling you guys that each and every one of these episodes just continues to get better and better, and I would love it— it would mean the world to me if you would share this episode with somebody else that is in your community that you care about— a friend, a loved one, a client even. And I'd love to hear where you are in your journey, so shoot me an email at hello@ @bunnyyoung.com. I love getting messages from you on Instagram @thebunnyyoung. Drop me a comment, drop me a note, whatever it is. I love hearing from you. And until then, I will see you on the next episode of the Yes And Podcast.