Outbound Prospecting: Sales Development Basics When Prospects Are Working From Home (Webinar - Ep 1)

Firstly, just like to say welcome to everyone and thank you for giving up your precious time to be here. I appreciate it's probably been a really busy fortnight for everyone, and it's not exactly like as sales and marketing professionals our job has become any easier in the last few weeks, so just want to make sure that you get maximum value for the, for the time that you've, you've given up. I wanted to say up front that we are going to keep it really simple, want no frills. I'm sure most of you have had WhatsApp Chat's flooded with work from home jokes, memes, videos, and the like. There were two really that stood out for me as clangers in the last week or so. There was the poor lady that went to the loo and forgot she was on camera on the conference call. And yesterday I saw one circulating where a senior manager who turned herself into a potato using Microsoft Teams for a laugh and then couldn't change it back, so ended up sitting on an hour call. So there won't be any special effects today. You're stuck with this drab background. I'd ask, just as a general point, if you guys could stay on mute for the entire call unless you're a panel member, and if there's anything you'd like to say, I'd invite you to make use of the chat feature. Colleague Freddie on the call will be keeping a close eye on any questions that are coming through, and we'll try to keep it interactive as possible, and we'll get to those questions if we can. With respect to why we're doing the webinar, I think Things are certainly different and have changed in the last couple of weeks, but I think we're certainly of the opinion that that doesn't necessarily mean that things are worse, but what is required is some adaptation. I suppose just looking at EngageTech, we've got good exposure to the tech market. We've got 30 SDRs making 20,000+ calls a week. So the data and feedback from that last fortnight compared to the decade of information that we have before that gives us some good resources to call upon. But we wanted to pull that information with sales leaders from some other organizations and have a pretty open discussion about our experiences with, with those guys and girls. So I think it might be time for me to introduce our panel. First up, we've got Kevin Kelly. He's the founder of PACE Digital Sales. They provide an outsourced inside sales service. Kevin's also UK president of the AAISP, which is a global inside sales community. Kevin, how have you found the last couple of weeks for your telemarketers?

You know, I think it's an interesting time. It's a time of great uncertainty, no question, but for me in particular with my team, it's a time for them to be safe first and foremost. I think everybody can relate to that, so that period was really a planning and an execution of a remote working process and a load of challenges with that. You know, I'm a huge admirer of the people who've done this at mass volume. So again, super challenges in that area. I also think as well, over the last couple of weeks, it was a time to overcommunicate with each other, you know, certainly with our team. And in particular for us, it was very much video. Very much Zoom and also we use Teams as well. And that was all, you know, ensuring that even though we were working away from each other, we were constantly in touch and we disallowed or didn't allow any phone calls to be made to each other. It was always video and it was always probably those two. And I thought that was a really interesting dynamic for us and it really helped us. Over the last couple of weeks. I also think as well it was very important to ensure we work closely with our clients we have and to advise and support them in this time of turmoil as well, because they, you know, they were obviously going through this process as well. So a very interesting time, but again, this is what I think sometimes inside sales is defined by remote selling. And I think we need to recognize that. And this is something that, you know, a lot of people do anyway, but most important now, I think for us is to absorb what we're seeing and ensure that we react to what we need to react to going forward, I think.

Sure. So it sounds like a lot of change and that being successful gives you a good platform for the weeks to come. I'm sure we'll get onto some more stuff around that in a minute. We've also got Boyd Mayover as a panel member. 3 times over, Boyd has scaled sales teams from the ground to 100+ agents, and for the last 14 years has run his own sales coaching and mentorship business. Boyd, what do you see as the most positive thing to come out of the work-from-home climate for salespeople in the last couple of weeks?

That's a great question. I'll tell you what I've found. The people I'm speaking to are telling me they're having a lot more meaningful conversations. That what they're finding is they're getting through to more people, and as long as they're good— and that's the key— they're having more conversations. So a lot of the people I'm speaking to have said it's been a positive, which is great, isn't it? Because the truth is there's If you know what you're doing and your social engineering is good and your research is good, you should get hold of more people and therefore you should be having better conversations. Now there is a counter-argument that says, oh, and that's a very negative one, that you're going to have lots of time wasters. Well, I don't agree with that because if you question properly and you show an interest in your prospect, you'll soon find out, won't you?

Yeah.

So for me, I've— I'm hearing a lot of positives about more meaningful conversations, which, let's be fair, if we're in inside sales, that's what we've got to have.

Yeah, thanks, Boyd. Um, and last but not least, we've got, uh, Lauren Samuels from, uh, from Lush. She's Senior Account Manager over there, um, also had a fair few sales development roles in the tech sector prior to moving to Lush. Lauren, I can imagine it must have been a seriously busy time for you in the last couple of weeks. How in demand are mobile numbers right now?

So yeah, I mean, I think the answer to that is that, you know, prospects have never been more accessible at this point. Now, mobile numbers really is where we come into our own as a business. It's sort of 90% of what we provide our customers. And this is the best time to be able to, you know, have discussions. And like Boyd just said, you know, meaningful discussions, you know, authentic discussions with customers. So, you know, I would say there's a large percentage of people at home right now. It's the best time to be able to reach those people. And like Boyd said, if you're having meaningful discussions, you're asking the right questions, you'll soon find out whether they're serious, you about listening to what you've got to offer.

Cool, thanks Laura. We've got a couple of general topics to start with and then we're going to dive into the questions which have been posed by you guys that have been registering. First one has just been like how we've been finding the last couple of weeks. I suppose comment from EngageTech has been that our booked appointments, we haven't really seen a dip in the output. And that's been encouraging. I think our access to mobile numbers has really influenced our ability to connect with people, and I'm certainly of the opinion that there's a lot more noise in the email space now as well, so you need to make sure that you've got good skills when it comes to effective subject lines to getting people to open emails. But there certainly isn't an appetite, I don't think, for any company to stop doing business, which means there are opportunities there. Kevin, you've obviously got a team of, I think, 5, 6 people maybe doing outbound prospecting. I'm not sure on the exact numbers. Like, what have they experienced from their outbound engagements in the last few weeks?

Yes, it's interesting because you're looking to make contact, right? And I think our main thought process around this right now is, you know, will we get more traction if we send an email, if we go social via LinkedIn, something like that, or if we're going to go direct call? And I think the challenge you have and we have and anybody else that's looking to sell right now really has to try and understand those sequences and try to readdress, I mean, what they perceive as the right way to get through to people who are at home, at work as well, remember. And I agree that I think once you get through to these people, I think they have more time to talk because ideally they're not in meetings. So, you know, when you're at home, you know, you may be on the odd video call or whatever, but generally there's a perception from my team of what they're telling us is that people want to engage and want to have a conversation. Now, here's the thing. I think the most important part of this is to understand how to trigger that conversation. And that's the key here. And mobile phones are absolutely crucial, you know, without question. I think it's very important to think of that concept. But also remember your cadences and don't shy away from your cadences or your sequences because there's various different ways to engage and contact with clients. And I think sometimes, you know, we're seeing email triggers starting conversations as well, a little bit quicker. People have more time to read their emails. So, you know, for me, I think you, you know, and our team have got to be very clear about how they position those cadences. Because when you engage with the client or with the prospect, this is all great. You can start talking about discovery, you can start looking to push that conversation a little bit further. But the challenge right now is how do you get through to that particular prospect or client? And at all stages, you've got to be looking at those different cadences that will make the difference. And it's not just one, it could be two or three. You know, what we do know is when we ring landlines directly now, there's a lot of people telling us that, you know, that the offices and main centers have been closed, you know. So we know this. So the challenges are, I guess, to really try and figure out from a call perspective, you know, what to target. And, you know, again, everyone's having this challenge. So, but for me, it's the cadence.

So for you, It's gaining access to a prospect, not maintaining access once you've connected. And what would you offer? You touched on cadences in a broad, broad sense there. What for you is like a sort of top tip that someone could implement in their cadences to enable better access, more access?

You see, I think what we're trying to do now is we're trying to contact directly through— we're trying email right now initially. So we're starting with email. We're looking for a reaction and then we're going to go outbound on it with it, with any call details, telephony that we have off the back of the email. But also a part of that cadence as well is to contact socially. If we can get people on clearly LinkedIn to make a contact, just to try and touch base in that space as well. You've got to be very, very careful because you know what you don't want to come across. And I think it's the wrong environment for us to come across right now. As really desperate salespeople wanting to close business. You know, we've got to try and just reach out to people. You've got to show a lot of empathy when we talk to people, and we've got to understand the situation we're in right now, you know. And to do that, you know, you've got to communicate in a slightly different way. And I think people will genuinely respond to that.

Yeah. So it's email first, and I would certainly say there have been some discussions at EngageTech about the fact that we've experienced in the first few weeks, few days of the week, so Monday, Tuesday, that people are a lot less open to a cold engagement over the phone. So we've been sending a lot more emails at the start of the week, but for you that's the intro point, and then a response there leads into the, into the call. Boyd, how do you, how do you feel about that as an approach?

I think I really empathise with a lot of what Kevin said. I think we've got to be sensible and address the elephant in the room. What I mean by that is some of us are being hit hard, some of our prospects and clients are being hit hard, and I think we've got to reach out and offer help where we can. And the other thing is, it's— even if you don't have the right answer, at least you're having a conversation. And I think Kevin's point is very well made. Yes, there are different ways to reach. You know, I, I've got clients who are using innovative voicemails to get a response. They're certainly doing a lot of what you're saying, Kevin, about the email first and then following it up. I think it's a case of being adaptable, but the biggest thing for me is everybody has got to be the best they can be on every call. I know that sounds glib, and I know everybody says it, but it is more important now than ever. Because as Kevin made a very good point, do you really want to be looking like a salesperson today? Absolutely not. And obviously I appreciate every industry is different, I, I understand that, but for me you've got to address what's happening out there, have conversations. Will it work every time? Of course it won't, but it's the little things that make the difference. Not the big things.

Boyd, how would you then position yourself on a call? You know, you've not had an engagement with someone before, someone answers the phone, how are you positioning yourself as someone who's not trying to sell to them, but someone who's trying to strike up a relationship, shall we say?

Well, I think it comes back to my sort of structure, which has always been: do pre-call planning, make sure you've got some social engineering done, so you know as much as possible, make make sure that your opening statement relates to them. So it would be no value at all me saying, "Good morning, I'm from XYZ, we sell software," or "We've got the greatest software in the world that will do—" They couldn't care less, could they? I've got to be opening by saying, "Good morning, Kevin, thanks for taking my call. My name is Boyd from ABC Software. We've been developing a piece of software that is able to do A, B, and C," what it's achieved with companies like yourself is GHI. Can I just ask you, what are you doing at the moment to reduce issues in the— your logistics department? Yeah, now that's what I've done for years. It has proved successful. I've seen the best do it, not me, considerably better than me. I've seen them do it very successfully, because what, what that does is not sell, does it? And it allows you to get them talking. Now, my opening statement took 6 seconds, and obviously you can do a lot better than I did. You've got to develop it and plan it around your own product or service. Yeah, sure.

Thanks, Boyd. And I'm sure there been some sections in that pitch which people will take away and use. Lauren, question for you, which was something which someone put in as they registered, was should we be calling switchboards right now? What's your view on that? I'm not a fan of switchboards.

Having, you know, like you say, I've been an SDR before, you don't get very far with the gatekeeper, I have to be honest. You can do, but I think it's like, you know, going back to the fact that mobile numbers are really gold right now, So, you know, listen, there are some switchboards. It depends where you're selling to. You know, we're a worldwide business. Each country and region works differently. If you're calling the States, you might have an extension list, and then you can be able to contact, you know, people's different extensions, or you might be able to get through to their personal number. It is best to be able to have access to that personal number. And of course, obviously, when you are accessing your customers, I think really you need to be yourself. You know, we're all a bit overwhelmed by the uncertainty that's going on right now. We're all worried. We need to keep the conversations real once we access our prospects to be able to— I think the real thing here is a lot of businesses are suffering and they're not generating revenue right now, but I think if you are demonstrating relevancy and you're building empathy, then that will definitely build trust and strengthen a relationship for future business. So I think, you know, right now, you know, I don't think— there are some businesses working. I know some friends that are working and they're sticking with the rules, you know, they're doing their social distancing, but I'd say that mobile numbers are key right now. And obviously, you know, having the meaningful discussions once you reach those prospects is the most important thing.

Yeah, I think that's a good point to touch on, which is just that there are some companies out there that will have an infrastructure on their switchboard, which will mean that you might be able to still access prospects directly through that. Naturally, a tool like the one that you offer is, is gold dust right now to try and shortcut a lot of that effort. I know I put a message on our general channel yesterday to the 30 or so people who are cold calling, and there's been some mixed feedback on switchboards. You know, there are, there are some who are proving valuable and helpful still. I think there are a lot of people who are now sat in their living room taking 100+ calls a day and are maybe a little more, a little bit more open to giving out mobile numbers if you can, if if you can charm them. And that's one thing which I've always tried to say to people, which is if you are calling a switchboard, it's more important than ever to actually engage with that person. You need to build rapport with that person and not treat them like a pathway to someone else and actually treat them like a proper person, you know, and I think they'll perhaps be a lot more likely to help you in that situation.

It rolls on to just— yeah, go on, boy. You're so right. I think we've— let's not use the word gatekeeper, let's use assistant or helper, because the truth is, head of gatekeepers, not all of them are the wicked witch of the east, are they? Always. This is an opportunity. Let's get their help. I'm not saying it will work with everyone, and we all know there are some receptionists wouldn't put you through if you were Prince William. Let's not worry about them. Let's worry about the ones that if we handle them, if we treat them how they want to be treated, if we question them like they're the prospect, show an interest in them and their job. Who, you know, can you imagine what some of these people are going through at the moment? As you said, sitting at home taking 50 calls. Maybe somebody should be saying, you know, "Hi Marianne, my name's Boyd, how's it going for you at the moment?" Yeah. "God, I'll bet I'm the 70th call you've had today." Now, will it work on all of them? No. Is it worth a call? Well, it's better than not making one, surely. Yep.

Sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to put that out there. No, no, no, good input, thank you. Next up, is it more important than ever to personalize? Kevin, I've been to a few of the AAISP events where this has been a kind of personalization versus automation has run as a common theme throughout the entire event. What's your view on personalization right now?

I think personalization has always been and will always be something that's very, very important. In the process. I think you've got to understand your audience, you've got to relate to your audience in some way, shape, or form. But I also think it's very, very important that you look at them and appreciate who they are. There's too many companies that go out there now, and we see it on social in particular. I see this on social in particular where they're too interested in speaking about themselves too quickly. So, you know, so I think, you know, from using from an SDR or whatever, a BDR, I think that the role and responsibility is to really look and ensure that you make that whatever communication method you're going down through, you make it personal to the client. You've got to show the client you know them in some way. I don't think that's ever changed, and I think it's very, very important here. And I think the circumstances kick in a little bit here as well. Because people are a little bit sensitive about the situation. But, you know, and I think I've just said this a little bit earlier, what we've got to be very careful here is that we don't oversell, we don't overspeed up the process because we're all under pressure, you know, because people will see that a mile off. When you try to personalize stuff and you try to make it relevant to the client and to the prospect, that's going to have triggers that will help and support you build a relationship Because I think we're in a time of building relationships now and building pipeline as opposed to closing deals, you know, and I think personalization will help you through that process. And I think it's very, very important. And if you have to take an extra step back in how you work to do that, and you know, I'm not a huge fan of automated anything because it doesn't really— sorry, maybe not in this case in particular, where I think you've got to take a certain level of time and effort to ensure that you genuinely personalize these messages. If that makes sense.

Kevin, I completely agree. I'm fully in the camp right now, and probably beyond this, that I don't think as an individual sales development person or individual salesperson that you should ever really be considering automation, particularly with an introductory email. Like, the need to personalise the subject line and differentiate yourself from the amount of traffic is so high that the effort spent sending 4 or 5 emails a day rather than automating 100 for the next few weeks is invaluable. And I can only speak on behalf of my inbox, but I think TM Lewin and Mosbros have had 5 sales a day since this happened, and that's just like emails flying into my inbox from kind of retailers, let alone someone who's actually trying to engage me in something which can really help me in work. And for me, it's only going to be the subject lines which really jump out, and I just don't think that you can personalise that if you're sending mass emails. I think it's perhaps a different conversation if you are a marketing department, or you're part of a marketing department. But as salespeople, I don't think it should come into the thinking.

I totally agree. You know, they've got to make a direct connection with their prospect, with their client. It's all about building relationships, you know. And I think we've gone beyond and past this process where, you know, we close an appointment or we close a deal as quick as possible. I think We've got to really stand out above the rest at this stage now, and we've got to really embrace the fact that, you know, clients and prospects want a different relationship now, you know. And for me, you can see those automated attempts, yeah, a mile off. Of course you can. Yeah, yeah, absolutely a mile off. And, and, you know, I know that the guys who produce all this stuff would say, no, actually not, that's not the case, you know, bring in artificial intelligence that will do something completely, no, it's absolutely not the case. You know, if I was to advise any of my sales development guys, any of my business development guys, I'd be saying to them, make it personal, take a little bit more time, a little bit more effort, and the client will respond to that, or the prospect will respond to that. So I, you know, obviously quite passionate about this particular subject.

Just seen a bit of chat coming on the side there. Gentleman called Matthew's just messaged, is anyone using any technologies in the market to help with personalising messages to prospects. Now, one of my colleagues, Harry, is on this call and he sent around a link to something called Hunter.io earlier this week, last week maybe, where you can source email addresses online and then there's also a link to the source and sometimes that's like an about us page and his point was there's a really good source there to sometimes personalise, like you might find out information about the business or the individual you're trying to prospect into to make it relevant. And then there was a follow-up question: what are your go-to subject lines? If you don't have a go-to, what are disciplines you have to create eye-catching subject lines? For me, that all comes down to research. If you can't personalize it, you probably shouldn't be prospecting to that particular individual, and maybe it's worth finding someone else to, uh, to try and speak to. I think at least that would be my view over email. I would probably pick up the phone to that person and try and strike up a relationship through a conversation. But I think that that would be a good guide. If you're trying to find a go-to subject line, it probably means that you haven't done enough research to make your engagement relevant. Go on, Kevin, looks like you've got something to say.

The interesting thing you've said there is absolutely correct, and it does come down to research, but I'm sure many people on the call here will recognize And the first thing someone's going to say is, well, how much time do you research into somebody who you haven't called, you haven't sent a message out to? You know, that's an interesting question as well. But there's levels of research. And I guess the message for me is, is you've got to make a genuine attempt to try and do some research before you go outbound, even to a prospect. I know some will disagree with that. I think you've got to make that attempt because you've got to show them you know them in some way, shape or form. And research will help that process. So personalization is important.

Another thing which has come into play for us has been looking at the people who are actually in a position to buy right now or sign a PO or progress deals properly. And that's a genuine decision maker and likely is going to be minimum director, maybe C-level at this point. And I think you're much better off selecting 10 to 12 people per day of that kind of nature and really spending the time to personalise. I think it's different if all you're looking to do is strike up a relationship in the next few months, and maybe that then goes back to short bit of research, open the door, and we revisit a little bit further down the line. Boyd, I don't know if you had any input on the personalisation line?

Oh yeah, I think I agree with virtually every word Kevin said. It's so important I mean, but we've got to be a bit innovative as well. You know, I've got a client that's— that he would pick 7 people and he would send out an email that says, in the subject line, it would say, Callum Henderson, thinking of you. And then it would say, dear Callum Henderson, I saw this article and I thought of you, and I'd love to gain your thoughts, and I will ring you tomorrow at 9 AM just to see what you thought about it, and he's getting engagement from that. Because it— and obviously if you've done your research properly, you're not going to send someone in healthcare an article about football boots, so you know, as long as you know what you're doing and you've done your research properly, I think that's very effective. I saw this article and thought of you, and it opens up a conversation. Notice the email doesn't say, and I'm going to ring you to give you more info. It's, I'm going to ring you to gain your thoughts. So you're opening up a conversation. But I think Kevin's right, you've got to do the research. How much you do will depend on the business you're in. And who your prospect is. But as you say, far better to prospect 10 people really effectively than scattergun 100.

Yeah, one thing I'd say on that is it's a real opportunity for anyone in sales development on, on this call to just put some pressure on, on your marketing team. Like, if you can have 4 or 5, uh, basically go-to articles, documents value-add, something that's almost like a deposit. You're giving someone something without asking anything in return, and I think this is a great time to be using things like that, and if they don't exist, then I would definitely be putting some pressure on your marketing department to help and support you around that. Laura, have you been doing much to market in the current climate? I know you got me to do a reference video the other day.

We've done a video and we've done— we've released a couple of, like, 3 points that we're working on right now. I just want to sort of add to that point as well, in terms of sort of investigative work. I think, like Boyd was saying, it really depends on what your business is and what you're doing. I think it's really a case of how the SDR has the ability to create a familiar connection. And we're all in this together right now, so it's really a case of being able to conduct you know, friendly, productive exchanges, and, you know, try and get a personal connection with your prospects as well.

Agreed. Do you think, like, are people typically leading with that at the start, you know, we're in the same boat, talking about the current climate, or is it an opportunity to skip by that and come to it at a later point? I've seen a few different influencers on LinkedIn say no one cares about the coronavirus in chat anymore, but I also think that Boyd's made a good point. Why would we ignore the elephant in the room? So what's the—

I would say that most customers are actually bringing it up straight away, and it's definitely a talking point. It's also, from my perspective, you know, I'm more in the customer success field now, I think it's a case of people trying to get better deals. It's a way to put pressure on businesses and say, listen, you know, and Again, it's about updating your messaging. It's like, what are you going to do for your customers in this instance? You know, are you— I mean, we're also looking at some customers freezing their accounts and like, you know, not allowing them to pay right now and letting them have access to the system. And, you know, like I say, it goes back to building trust and empathy. If you've got a good relationship and you want to continue with your customers, so you need to think about ways in order to provide the best strategy for what you're doing right now. So it depends. If you're obviously an SDR, you're gonna look at things from that perspective. If you're looking, like from what I'm doing right now is renewing customers, you need to think outside the box and see what can you offer these people to be able to, you know, build the relationship for when we come out of this situation and that people do rebound and how quickly they rebound. So it's really a case of, you know, what's the strategy? How are you gonna effectively continue to do business with your customers, what can you offer them, and I think it does come down to a case-by-case basis, but you also need to look at what that customer needs right now and to be empathetic to the situation.

Thanks, Lauren. 100%. We briefly touched on this earlier, I think you mentioned it, Boyd. One question that was sent in: is there a risk that too many meetings booked now are with time-wasters who have more time on their hands sat at home. Um, and yeah, you, you said that's kind of on us to qualify, right? Um, so 100%.

Look, there will always be a time waster here or there, yeah, that's always going to happen. But in most cases, if we've built a rapport and we've built— and we've started to build the relationship and we've questioned correctly, then it's on us if they're time wasting. Yeah, I just think we've got to be careful that that's not a ready-made excuse that we've put in our head before we've even picked the phone up. Yeah, got to be very careful. You know, for me, something Kevin said earlier really resonated. It isn't necessarily about selling now, it's about creating a relationship and something memorable now, so when this is all over We're in control of the next step. And for me, there will always be someone that wastes your time because that's what they do, and it wouldn't matter whether this was happening or not. But I don't even think we should be thinking about it. I, I don't really agree with the premise. I think if we're doing our jobs right, why would there be any more time wasters than there is normally?

Yep, and I think it's like, I have watched salespeople along the way almost like the hope of a deal or the hope of a, like, the start of a relationship. I think you need to be really detached from that and, and just take an objective view sometimes, try and remove the emotion from it and just, and be in a position to ask the right questions to make sure you aren't wasting your, wasting your time. Yeah, and the other thing I, I think, and I, I've actually My opinion's the opposite of this. I don't think there's a risk if people are doing their jobs. I agree with you, Boyd, but if you're a director, decision maker right now, you're only going to take a sales meeting around a topic which is number 1 or 2 on your, your list of things. 100% correct. The intent in the meetings which are going to be going ahead in the next 4 weeks, I think, will be more purposeful than anything that we've seen perhaps in the years, maybe even since the credit crunch, right? Because why would you waste time on something which you're looking at in a year? There's such a lack of information on where we're going to be. I don't know what you think on that, Kevin.

No, again, I suppose it's just going back to the basics and understanding and trying to work in a— I know it's a very difficult environment, and I do— I can understand why somebody would want to get a visual or demonstrations and things like that when they have a bit of time. The interesting point here is, I go back and Boyd mentioned this quite a lot as well, which was, for me, this is about discovery questions, isn't it? It's about making sure that whoever you bring through to that demonstration of that product earns the right to get into that demonstration. And ultimately, if not, and there's no strong discovery questions prior to all that process, you know, you're not at that stage to do the demonstration, you know. So I think it's normal rules, you know, are required here. Now I would say one thing as well, I just have to— off the, the other side of that, there may be new people, new SDRs, new BDRs, and having to learn how to present, and it may be an opportunity for them to get involved in and building their skill sets in that space as well. I mean, you know, there's various different things, you know. Are you going to turn down somebody who says, I want a demonstration, please? You know, so you, you've got to weigh those things, weigh those things up. But, but I'm a huge fan of ensuring that people earn the right to see the product. It shouldn't be something that we're just sharing out to everybody.

And what question— what would be like the number 1 or 2 question that you'd ask a prospect to make sure that they they do deserve that demo.

Yeah, it probably starts with— and this might sound a bit weird, but it probably starts with, tell me a little bit about your business, you know, give me an understanding of why this is important to you, you know. These— if this comes into you directly from an inbound, because remember, we need to, I suppose, talk about inbound strategies and maybe outbound strategies because they're completely different, you know. I think you've got to really understand the logic and the company's business and their requirement first and foremost, and then try get an understanding of why this is important to them. Yeah. And I think what's, what's also key as well is that what, what we've noticed and what I've seen a lot is people who are non-decision makers tend to go on these particular videos, and, and again, that's, that's a waste of time because you may have to do 2 or 3 demonstrations. So I think it's very important to get from the get-go here to understand, you know, who's going to be in that decision-making unit, that if you're going to be prepared to put on this demonstration for an hour, you've got to have these people being part of that process as well.

Yeah, even a simple question like, what would you look to take from the meeting, might, might open up for someone to actually independently think about it rather than them just kind of rolling through and following your lead as the salesperson. We've certainly found that one to be effective in opening prospects up. Lauren, I had a question to just move the subject on, which I want to direct to you, but did you have anything to add on that topic before, already?

No, not really. I think you just need to understand your customers' needs and what they need, as opposed to what you want to sell. I think that's the thing. Everyone wants to sell, but I think that you need to really understand your customer and what they need and try and, you know, hone in on that. Yeah, spot on.

I think with respect to this question, you might be marginally biased for the, for the first one that you offer, but someone messaged in saying, what technology is supporting your prospecting? Aside from the obvious, what, what are you using right now, or what tools have you found to be effective?

So again, it sort of goes back to sort of quality over quantity, and what you're talking about now is more quality targeted prospecting We use Salesloft, which is a very well-known sort of SDR. There's also Outreach. We do actually have integrations with those as well. And you can build cadences with them, and it obviously gives you the maximum outreach. We also, obviously, we use Zoom for doing meetings. I mean, we talk about this working from home. I mean, as I said, we provide worldwide offerings. So if you're speaking to people in Australia, it's going to be Zoom in other countries. And so we're used to doing that.

Yeah.

Like I said at the beginning of the call, we use Workplace from Facebook, which is great in these times when you're working from home and you want to connect with people on a personal and business level. But yeah, I mean, generally it's picking up the phone. That's really what you need to be doing. Yes, you need to drop an email. You need to— you know, nobody likes a completely cold phone call. Who are you? Why are you calling me? You know, whatever. But I think if you drop an email to a customer as a first instance, but you need to follow it up with a call. You know, we're all salespeople, we all like to chat, we want to get on the phone and do what we do best, basically.

Yeah, I think that's been an interesting dynamic shift which I've experienced. Like, essentially going to our customers and talking about cold calling as a concept is something which people almost reluctantly believe they need to do, but the more fancy things like events just seem to be the more popular thing that they'd much rather spend their time doing, and it's been so interesting to, in the last week or so, go from like the dinosaur on the block to suddenly being like people like, we just need someone who can help us have more conversations via the phone with potential prospects. You spoke about Salesloft there as a tool. I'm aware that there's some really good features where you can check like the success of your subject lines and the open rates, which is, which is good. But I'd agree with you that a lot of them are more lent towards email prospecting as a large feature. Kevin Boyd, don't know if you had any input on tools to support cold calling or sales development other than ones mentioned.

Yeah, I think it's very similar. I think what there's a tendency for us to do as well is work with the clients and whatever CRM system they have, whatever process they use, obviously from an outsourcing perspective, you know, we try and integrate into those systems if we can, very, very simply. We've used VanillaSoft, for instance, as well. We use that, I know Salesloft very well, obviously the team there as well. I also think as well, the tools around that LinkedIn, Sales Navigator, that whole process as well, is very important because, you know, that is a leading prospecting tool, LinkedIn in itself, in particular when you align Sales Navigator to it as well. So, you know, I think there's many out there and I'm sure people use various different ones.

One of the main things I find with LinkedIn is just trying to look at the words and phrasing that a prospect uses on their own profile. And find a way to sew that back into how you communicate with them. So often there are like Easter eggs hidden in the profile that someone's put together which can just unlock the door. So I'd definitely say just to look at the finer detail in the text that they put on there and use it to your advantage. Boyd, I don't know what you've used.

No, I agree with you, Callum. I think what you've just said is the key. It's about the hard work you do before you pick the phone up or before you send an email, and it is about that research, and it is about being intelligent and being adaptable. I always say, do you know, one of the big things I say is, for God's sake, have more than one serve. And salespeople often have one serve, and what I mean by that, they've got something that works and they use it a lot. There's nothing wrong with it, it's good, but they use it a lot. You think of Roger Federer, when he throws the ball up in the air to serve, he has one thing in his mind: I'm going to win the point. How many different serves has he got? I mean, so many. That's just on grass. On clay, we as salespeople need more than one serve, and what you're talking about is the ability to adapt, and if that serve is how you research, and if that serve is how you use your CRM, or how you open your call, or how you qualify for decision-making, just have more than one.

Sure, we had a question come in just now, it's a good one, how do you keep your SDRs motivated? Kevin, you want to take that one to start with?

I think video is king at the moment. It's great to see a lot of people sharing, especially the SDR world and the BDR world, everybody sharing the post of each other meetings on, you know, I think that's amazing to see everybody on something like Zoom having conversations together, having different things that they're doing, coffee mornings, whatever. They seem to be doing a lot of this, certainly seeing a lot of this on social at the moment. For me, it's important that you engage with each other and you speak to each other. But I think we have a super opportunity to really do this on video, virtual meetings all the time. And I think that's so important because Inside Sales has been built to be around face-to-face. I know very few people say it's not, but what we are doing right now is face-to-face. You know, and we can contact anybody anywhere in the world right now and have a face-to-face meeting. Tel Aviv is a great example, but we can, we can speak to anybody and it'd be face-to-face. And I think that is a super message that's happening right now, that people are finally understanding the power of video. Video is our voice now, in my opinion.

Yeah, I know we've, we've seen some good creativity. So some of the team have set up a Zoom call for 2 or 3 hours at a time when they're doing a large calling block, so they almost recreate the office environment in that they can all hear each other prospecting, um, to kind of regenerate that atmosphere of the sales floor, which I know it's really kind of weird when you're prospecting on your own. For some of the guys, maybe even in their bedroom, and that's been something which I've I've seen as a good tool, but that came from the team rather than anyone in management motivating. I would personally say that you need to make sure that you're having 2 or 3 stand-ups a day with the team, get commitments, you know, keep it light-hearted and fun, and bring relevant topics to those meetings to keep the team engaged. I wouldn't over-micromanage compared to how you approach the team in the office. I think you need to trust people to be independent in this in this time. The other thing for our business has been that we've maintained the commission structure as is and haven't made any adjustments to that under the current climate, and I think it's really important to not mess with that aspect, particularly if it's been a founding principle of success in your business previously. Lauren, I don't know, how about any kind of salespeople in, in Lush? Have there been any kind of management initiatives to keep people motivated that you've you've seen or been involved in? I mean, we are—

I think that in these times where you are working from home and managers might be a little concerned about what's actually going on, I think there are nice ways to do it, you know, like to keep the motivation going and to keep people's spirits up and to be able to keep continuing with the outreach. We do some things like gamification, you know, where it depends who gets the most appointments and, you know, little prizes and things like that. We also do like, I don't know if anyone else is doing like Zoom happy hours. Every week we do a happy hour. We have a great person who sets up games for us to play, like for the whole company. So you have like 100 people on happy hour, you all get together, you all get a chance to chat, and we're all doing that tomorrow because Thursday's our end of week here. And I think that, you know, you need to come up with little ways in order to be able to keep people's spirits high, and, you know, little incentives as well as, you know, I mean, we're also very lucky as a business that they haven't changed our commission structures, that we've had regular all-hands meetings where the business directors and the CEOs are very transparent with the staff. They want to make sure everybody's looked after. They want everyone to know that they're not going to lay anyone off, that they're— we're all in it together. And I think that there's always got to be little ways that you you know, continue picking up the team spirit and keep the competition going.

Yeah, I think that transparency is key. People are very much valuing being in the know about the situation for the company that they work in, and clarity on that's important. I don't know if anyone's looking at their chat. James Dowell, we're loving Kahoot.it for quizzes and drinks, so maybe an alternative to Zoom there. I suppose with respect to another comment just in on the side there, reduce targets given circumstances to keep the team motivated, they aren't going to hit a usual target, salespeople want to earn money. I think it's really important for people to strike a balance on that and maybe not to subscribe to mentality that targets need to massively drop under the current climate. There's always going to be a reason why you can't sell, but I would definitely say that It's important not to create unneeded pressure for your sales team. I don't know what you think about that, Boyd, in terms of shifting targets.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure now's the time to be dropping targets. I think as management we have to look at them and we have to look at what's happening and the reasons we're hitting target or we're not, but I don't think I just don't think we should go to default, oh, let's drop targets. I think it's dangerous. Sure.

For me, I would always be open to understanding for an individual their current situation and why they feel that the target isn't achievable and working with them to try and make it feel more achievable rather than group view, let's drop targets. And I think a lot of people that are on this call are successful in sales because they've worked through tough situations and haven't looked at a reason to not achieve in those scenarios.

100%.

Interesting question that came in: what's the balance between being supportive to your customers and merely being present? Maybe one for you, Lauren? I think it's probably closer to your day-to-day.

I would say again, it's like going back to the strategy and what that customer is looking for and being able to offer, you know, something that works for both parties. You know, you don't want to, you don't want to start putting prices up in a time like this. You want to be able to retain your business, which is obviously what I'm, you know, responsible for doing now, as opposed to direct sales. I'm maintaining relationships, I'm making sure people are satisfied with the services, and if we are looking at renewals and people are in difficult times, you need to be understanding of that, and you need to be able to come up with ways that are going to keep the customers happy, keep them satisfied, and that will help you in the long run to be able to continue future business. And then, you know, once you're in a stage where we hopefully have got through this, we'll then, you know, look at ways where we can upsell and add value and create more revenue within the business. But I think now's the time for, you know, retaining customers and acting correctly and making sure that you are being sympathetic to businesses and, you know, considerate and kind and caring. And we're all here to make money, but you need to be able to hold on to the customers you've got, I think is very important right now.

Cool, thanks for that. Another question just come in: have you had any negative or relationship-damaging responses as a result of cold outreach right now? My personal view on that is if you're going to make 100 cold calls, pretty much 99% of them are going to have a negative response, you know, and that's in a normal climate. I know one of the guys who's doing a sterling job in the current climate of booking sales meetings for me right now has had a couple of responses saying like, this call couldn't have come at a worse moment for me. But I think that's just part and parcel of cold outreach and sales development. I think it's very different to then look at the second part of that question, relationship damaging responses. That's, that's a different kettle of fish. And I think there definitely needs to be some consideration when speaking to your existing customer base or people that are a slightly warmer relationship and make sure that you don't do anything kind of too untoward. Kevin, what's your view on that? Negative responses or?

I think you've got to handle everything in the right way. You've got to, you have a responsibility. I think I just said a little bit earlier on, we were talking about even in new acquisition and called out, you know, cold calling and outreach and things like that. That's all, yes, new acquisition. You're looking to try and build up opportunity there. And I think if you treat it the way it should be treated, if you're looking to become a salesperson to close deals very, very quickly in these, you're going to get shut down very, very quickly. For me, this is a great opportunity to build pipeline right now and that relationship. And that relationship means that you can maybe call this person back at some stage in the near future and have another conversation. It doesn't mean you end the conversation. It means you're just building relationships. So you've got to take on board what clients and prospects are saying right now and ensure that you're listening to them. And that's very, very important because if you're not listening to them and you're jumping ahead and you're trying to again push and push and push, it's going to have a negative impact on that call and that relationship. So I think there's a fine balance between, uh, trying to get through, trying to build up pipeline, but ensuring as well that you're not having that negative relationship impact. You need to be able to go back to this client or prospect potentially on a telephone call, and again, you're in a better place than you were with the previous call. Yeah. So I think it's very important you, you treat this process very carefully and think relationship, pipeline, and moving conversations on.

You've got to be curious right now. Yeah, so kind of marginal gains across that sales funnel rather than huge, huge leaps and bounds forward. Absolutely. I'm conscious we've got 5 minutes left. I wouldn't mind a minute at the end just to wrap everything up. Prior to that, could I maybe just get a minute from each of the panel on just your top tips or a top tip right now where you think, just so there's some takeaways for people that are listening. Boyd, don't know if you wanted to take that one first?

Yeah, I'll give you sort of 5 tips that I think in the current—

12 seconds each. Might work.

Identify 10 of your main prospects. Next step, force yourself to ring them even if you've been having a hard time. Yeah. Next step, set a time during each day when you are really gonna fly, because you, you might have your kids running around or partners or whatever. Don't worry if you're not perfect. Strive to be, but don't worry if you're not. And here's the important tip: what's the worst can happen? They'll say no, and you'll practice, practice, practice.

Thanks, Boyd. Lauren?

I would say, you know, update your messaging, be relevant, and make authentic conversations with prospects.

Thank you. Kevin?

I think for me, I go back to the thing I started with, I guess, is that adjusting your contact cadences to suit your prospecting, I think right now is very, very important. Get that, figure out that part, email, social, calls, figure that part out, how that one works. What I would say as well, from a collaboration point of view internally, if you want to speak to a colleague, do it on video only. It's an amazing thing to keep on doing that. Push away your phone, do video only if you're talking to a colleague. And lastly, I think webinars like this are very, very important. There's quite a few on different stages. Certainly you see them on LinkedIn. Embrace that learning process right now while you're at home. I think we haven't discussed that part, but I think it's important. And it's easy to say that, you've got to plan it correctly. You know, embrace learning is easy, I guess, but you've got to plan it. And for me, join these webinars. That's one plan you could put in very, very quickly. They're attracting hundreds of people, so join different webinars that you find will help you during the day as well to learn.

That's my last one. Thanks, Kevin. A few from me. One is make sure on every conversation that you have, you ask for a referral to another colleague to speak to and always try and make sure that you're asking for mobile numbers when you do get appointed in a slightly different direction. Try and maximise the value in every conversation that you have. A real simple one, but use someone's name at the start of a call by saying, "Hi Joe," rather than, "Hi, is that Joe?" It's such a subtle difference. If you're asking, "Is that Joe?" you identify yourself as a cold caller. It's a tough enough job at the best of times. If you can present yourself as someone who's warm by using their first name rather than asking who it is, you're a lot more likely to have a positive conversation. The other one I would say is people typically set out of office around the Easter break because they take days off either side. I know a lot of companies aren't letting people take annual leave back that they had previously booked. When people set an out of office, they normally put colleagues on there with a mobile number or a number to call. So I would increase and ramp up the speculative emails that you're sending over the Easter period, because I think you're going to get a lot of contact details in return for that effort. So that would be— those would be my tips to take away. I think we've got 1 minute left. We are certainly looking to run more of these in the coming weeks. I think Freddie and I have already decided that we'll run another one at midday next Wednesday. If anyone on this call was interested in featuring on the panel, that'd be great, and we're certainly looking to run it for for a few weeks. The lifeblood of this is your registrations and any questions that you'll ask in the registration forms that you put in. And I'd just like to say thanks again to panel members for giving up their time and providing some amazing insight today, and to Freddie for organizing. And hopefully we'll all cross paths in the relatively near future.