CEO of a $100M company - Shaun Clark, HighLevel

Welcome to another Founder Wisdom Pod. We have Sean Clark for his 3rd round at the Founder Wisdom Podcast. He's the co-founder of HighLevel, a very successful company. I would have expected you, Sean, to have an exit since our first episode, right? Like, you guys are so valuable, you're growing so fast. It's pretty crazy. What's been new since last time we spoke?

Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, thanks for having me. It's great to be back. You know, I think when you enjoy what you do, you don't really want to exit. But, you know, we're having a lot of fun and we're growing like crazy. And with AI, there's so much more to do and so many new things to work on. So I don't know, I like— I don't know what else I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this. So here I am.

Tell me about that conference of yours that's happening in a few days.

Sure. Yeah. So it's our annual Level Up conference. We're going to be releasing a bunch of massive, massive things along with a couple hundred new features and updates, which is what we love to do. So, and it's just an exciting opportunity also to celebrate our customers and all the people who have gotten us here. So it's really putting on an event for them and, and making sure that they know that we're the best place for them to build a business on. So we're excited to, to pull it off yet again this year.

How has your life changed since, uh, Claude Code as a CTO, as a super geek, right? Are you deploying like hundreds of agents on a daily basis?

Um, well, that's an interesting one. So all of— I would say it's just about massive adoption across the board. It has accelerated our ability to deliver, kind of like everybody, right? Like, to the extent that the average person can now build a small app, we can build a whole lot more than we used to be able to build. And so now our ability to stay, uh, to, to really grow has been amazing. But also, there are things that I never thought we'd be able to do. Um, we'll be announcing some of these next week, but, you know, like, for example, um, we've always been the front end of every business. And I thought, you know, that's great, but I, you know, I really want to be the back end of a lot of these businesses. But as you go into the back end, you have to get really specific to that industry. And I never thought this would be possible, but, uh, we'll— starting off next week, we'll see this. But we are starting to go out all the way down to the back end of very specific industries so the software can do things for that type of business that no other business needs, just that business. And now we can go end to end from the front door all the way to the back office, and it's, it's pretty cool. And I think You know, this time next year we'll have 30 or 40 industries live, uh, you know, across the board. That allows us to go a lot deeper, and that's all because of AI.

How is HighLevel dealing with the SaaS-pocalypse, right? Like charging per seat, charging per month. Aren't you guys— shouldn't you guys charge per usage eventually? Uh, shouldn't you guys have your own agents, MCPs, and all that?

Sure, yeah. So we do charge for usage on some of those things. We never charge per user, we never charge per contact. So We have a set of features that you pay for. And remember, all of our software is about resellability and it's about making money and helping people create a business. And so there's the platform fee, but the platform fee is really de minimis relative to what you get. So a pure usage model would be perfect in the real world, but in the real world, you want people to come in who have— again, we're not working with the average small business owner. We're working with a founder or an agency who's who's building a business. And so if you've ever built a business, yeah, you do invest some money, you do pay some costs. And so some of those things, uh, are what we do with the platform fee. But again, compared to anybody else out there, uh, you know, for what we offer, you'll, you'll never find a better price. So we're already really good and economical. So pretty excited about that. And we were already— we already had no users, no per-contact charges, no per-sub-account, none of that. So we've already— we're actually— it's funny, we used to be criticized by a lot of people for the fact they thought we were stupid and we were leaving money on the table. And we just said, no, you know, we wanna charge people for how they wanna be charged and when they use the system. And it's funny how the world changes and now everybody's moving that way.

And agencies, what have changed in their world? Are they trying to vertically build all their software stack, thus ignoring HighLevel and Trurning, or are they spending more on the API side of things? What have you seen there?

Well, I mean, we have an entire replication all the same tools. So the thing is, is like if you said, oh, I use Claude or I use this or Lovable or something else, we have all of that in HighLevel now. So you can build all the same stuff in HighLevel. And so the reality I think is that what's cool about this is they're now building inside HighLevel. And why? Because you don't want to build everything. Maybe you could, maybe you couldn't. But even if you can, do you want to? I mean, you could cut down your own trees and make your own soap and do your own dental work. But at some point, It's silly to do all that. And if really what you're trying to do is make money and not mess around, try and build software, I mean, the number of people I see like, oh, I spent the last year and a half building this amazing app and now no one bought it. Oh, shoot. It's like, forget all that. You want to make money, you want to help your clients. And so what's great about HighLevel is you can take all the stuff off the shelf that you like that's already there that you don't want to build. And then anything that's missing, you can use AI to build inside HighLevel. And then you can do that last mile thing that's going to create the value for the client. And that's gonna actually turn into revenue for you instead of messing about building a bunch of software that goes nowhere.

Do you see like different habits amongst, I don't know, age groups of agency owners? 'Cause I would see like younger agency founders wanting to build pretty much everything and control everything from Claude code, for example, versus older ones that have zero interest in like being technical and building these things.

I mean, certainly there's more interest and quick adoption on the AI side, but I think that if you're super young, that's cool. You have probably more time than money, but you still run into the fact that with the limited money that you have, you burn a couple hundred dollars worth of tokens, you end up on another side, and if you don't have a business or you don't have revenue, you're just wasting your time. So a lot of people are very quickly churning through that as well, right? So a lot of these people who early on caught that bug and are excited, they're very quickly finding that yes, they can create all kinds of stuff that no one will buy and has no interest in, And now they're looking around and saying, well, wait a second, who can I work with that actually will help me turn this into a business? And I think that's why we're the best answer for all of these people, because you get this beautiful middle ground. You can come in and build anything. I'm watching people build video games inside HighLevel, for gosh sakes. I mean, you can build anything you can imagine. But we're also going to show you how to make a sale. We know what business owners want. We understand how to scale these things. We have literally millions of businesses now that are being served by agencies. And so we have both young people and older people. And honestly, I see both habits in both age groups. I see a lot of super techie AI people in both the younger and older camps. So I think it's less about your— some people are just more techie. And I think the techier people love the AI a lot more than the non-techie people. But either way, we kind of put all the tools in one spot, which is what we've always done. So that way you don't have to go and cobble stuff together. So if you come to HighLevel, you love AI and you want AI everywhere, we got that. If you don't want AI everywhere, we've got the traditional stuff. And Everything in between.

And your white label model, right, which has very much been key to HighLevel's growth, like, is it still scaling nowadays or do you see less traction on that level?

Oh, I think, I think we see just as much as ever. I mean, I don't know why white labeling is any less valuable today than it's ever been. Ultimately, the thing we want people to be able to do is go out to the world and present their own solution under their own brand. We don't want them to have to have our brand. And that's what the white label's all about. That's why we allow them to build white label mobile apps. We allow them white label web apps. I mean, you name it. And I think AI helps extend that even more, but it drives home the point that the person that's serving you, the person you're buying from is really the expert. They're the people creating the value, not the software program. And so for me, white label is gonna be just as valuable today as it's ever been because that's the solution is that's what it's solving for. It's allowing them to put their brand out into the world and not our brand.

Have you guys officially won the war against ClickFunnels?

I don't know that we were ever in a war against ClickFunnels, to be honest. Um, we never thought of it that way ourselves. You know, we, we— and in fact, if anything, I think competition is a good thing. It helps push people. Um, you know, they've continued to evolve and add things, and I, you know, we don't, we don't spend a lot of time that way. We really just kind of focus on the customer as we always have, you know, whether it's the ideas list or the live town halls or Whatever that to me is, it's kind of where we focus most of our time, but we don't really think—

I can answer that for you because I know you won't like say yes, but I think that war was won in around 2020 for sure. And I think they actually propelled you. It was like a stepping stone because there was— they brought awareness and education to the market and then people were pissed by their software and then they look for an alternative, which was you guys. And then we would type ClickFunnels on Google and then go HighLevel with Bob, right?

Yeah, we definitely brought a lot of customers over from ClickFunnels for sure. I will say they're incredible marketers. I mean, you know, one thing—

Yeah, the greatest of all time.

I'm a terrible marketer, so I'll be the first person to admit it. I'm a techie person, so I was always amazed and I'm always amazed at the people who are great marketers 'cause it's not my skillset.

Oh yeah, for sure. Referrals, right? And affiliate programs also skyrocketed. You guys, how's that doing?

It's still the only way we run. I mean, to me, it's the right answer. It's like, if we create a great platform that people are willing to share with their audiences, there's no other way to grow a business in my opinion, because it aligns your interests with their interests. If they are willing to use your platform in their own business and talk about it, then that means you must be doing a good job. And every day you just get up and make the platform better, that they fundamentally are gonna wanna talk about you more and you're gonna reward them and they're gonna reward you. It's a really symbiotic relationship. And I think personally, it's the only way to run a business, period, full stop. I don't like trying to get up on the internet and tell people how great I am. I'd rather have other people do it for me. And I'd rather do it— and the reason why I think also is the people that promote us are actually really experts in their craft. They know what good looks like. And oftentimes, they're some of the very people who also help us make the product better. They've told us what we're missing, what we're doing right, what we're doing wrong. And, you know, our mission is to just fix the product, make it perfect. And I think those are the people that give us that guidance. Um, so for me, it's, it's, it's the only way we travel today and the only way we'll travel in the future.

Why isn't HubSpot acquiring you?

I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. These are some interesting questions. I don't know if they could acquire us, um, these days. Um, I, I think that they are in a really tough spot. They've They've gotten— they tried to go upmarket, and I think that upmarket stalled a bit. It's a lot harder than they think, and I think they're, they're in a bit of a quagmire at the moment. Um, they had—

That's why they should acquire you.

Well, I mean, I don't know if they have the money to acquire us or not.

They do, they do. Obviously they do. They have huge coffins in, uh, in acquisition money. They probably—

Well, maybe, maybe they should, but I tend to find that people who, you know, who, who should do something may not do something, so We'll have to see. But they're definitely, um, they're, you know, we certainly, you know, we know who they are, they know who we are. But, you know, until they call me and, and, uh, offer to acquire me, then, you know, I— we're gonna keep pushing on.

And, uh, are you in the CRM category, right? Because CRM is sort of, in my world, CRM has always been dead. I've never used productively CRMs up until I started using Addeo as of late with, uh, AI feature and then I built my own on Claude code, right?

Yeah.

You feel you're under that category as well? Do you feel a revival in the CRM world?

I mean, I used to say that we aren't a CRM, never will be a CRM. We only added CRM because it just is part of the stack. But CRM is just one of 200 things you need, right? And so ultimately, we think of ourselves more like Costco. Our mission is simple. We ask our customers what they buy, And then we stock the shelves with what they want. And CRM is one of those things. I mean, is it an important component for most businesses? Absolutely. But I mean, the problem is the CRM is just basically a database of contacts and it's really about how do they get in and how do you interact with them and how do you move them from name and phone number to an actual customer? Like all of that stuff's way more important honestly than a list of names. You can put that on a spreadsheet somewhere. it doesn't do you any good. So CRM is just one of the many things that we do, but I'm more interested in AI and its capacity to help businesses market, AI and its capacity to help businesses operationalize things that they couldn't before. Those things have more impact and the CRM is just one component of that. But now it's really about what is that thing you're doing for the business? What outcome are you creating? And again, our mission isn't to help that business do that. Our mission is to help The people we serve, they're the people who actually take these tools and go out and create those outcomes. So for me, it's making sure they have all the tools they need to make that happen.

So what's the trendiest feature? What do you stock the shelves with nowadays? Like, what's the number one most wanted thing of— Well,

I mean, well, first it's all the AI tools. I mean, you know, yes, there's cloud code, but I mean, you start with a blank slate all the time. You maintain, maintain all your own stuff, all of that. I think I think that was a great start, but I just don't see how that is going to work long term. I think it's a lot of work. It's a lot of upkeep. It's a lot of new models here, new models there. These days, if you're using— if somebody told me that they're using one product like that, that's like saying I drive a tank everywhere I go. I drive a tank if I'm going to war. I drive a tank if I'm going to the grocery store. It's really inefficient. And so as the world changes, Yeah, I mean, you need to have multimodal orchestrate— orchestration. You know, you need to have things that are able to create outcomes at a much faster, cheaper rate. Because the other problem is the cost of inference is continuing to go down, but it will continue to go down and down and down, and it'll be through multiple models at the end of the day. And again, these are the complexities that are inevitable in technology. And unless that's what you want to do with your day, at some point you also have to turn around and make a sale and talk to your customers and, you know, And so for us, if we can provide a platform where you can come in, you can benefit from all of that stuff every day. So when a new model comes out that's cheaper, you don't have to relearn it. You don't have to move everything over. You don't have to retrain the memory. We'll handle all those things for you. And if you just need a module that— because while AI is awesome, AI is actually not something you need for everything. It's like if you want to change the button color from green to blue on a website, do you want to pay a token for that? No, you don't need to. You just use code. Behind the scenes, what we do on our side is in all of our AI builders, if you say change the color, we just change the color. It costs you nothing. If you want to move an element left to right, it costs you nothing. Fundamentally, we really shortcut a ton of that work for all of our customers today.

Give me an idea of the agents that you personally run on your computer on a daily basis.

Me? I'm terrible. I'm weak. I'm like, I'm just getting Ask AI to actually go out and start. Well, actually, I'll tell you the coolest thing I do is I use it to pull data. I'm like, all right, because we have browser-based access now just like Claude or anything else. You just say, I love— because it used to be like, okay, you need to take 3 different datasets, you need to glue all that data together, and you need to create a presentation around it. It'd be like, okay, you got to take it all and put it in Snowflake, and then you got to take that and you got to put Tableau in there. It's like, oh my God. And then, and then of course you needed like an army of people with PhDs to figure this all out. But now you just tell it, hey, go here, here, and here and get this information and bring it back. And man, it's amazing what it can do. To me, that's the number one thing I use it for every day.

And your engineers, they leverage Claude Code? You have like one of these 1000x engineers internally that just produce like way more than the others?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is what every engineer is like this now. You're not allowed to work for us unless you're like this. And they're all, and they're all like this. They can't wait. So This is the amazing thing. Watching hundreds of engineers all of a sudden get this massive upgrade, and it didn't happen overnight. It's been an 8-month journey or something, but just the acceleration is insane. Ideas that I heard just for the first time 2 weeks ago, all of a sudden I'm seeing a demo of, and it's a couple of weeks from going live, and these are serious lifts. These are things that would have taken a year prior and a big team and a lot of planning. They're just flying through them now, and it's pretty incredible to watch.

How do you make sure that they don't let viruses, malwares, and cybersecurity-sensitive stuff in while using these?

Well, I mean, I know we have a million zillion things that work on that. You know, you're not talking to the CTO, so you're not talking to the right guy. Ask Varun, he's my co-founder, he can give you all those answers to the penny. But I know that they— I have no idea what they run them through. They run through all kinds of things to check all that stuff. And also, you know, like the— like all right now, the way it's all assistive right now. So like the developers are reviewing all the code that comes out and all that, but they have all kinds of other automations that check all this stuff. But if you want to know all the details, go ask Varun. He knows.

So now you're the frontman of the company, sort of nowadays. Are you organizing?

I've always been the frontman only because I've always been the worst software engineer. Um, I was always bad at— my 2 co-founders, like, I was work— I was bad at everything. And so they were just like, well, I don't know, go do the release video. So that's just— that's how I got here.

What's your day-to-day like nowadays as the, the front man?

You know, I talk to— I get to do what I always have done, and I, I guess I have— I refuse to change. So, you know, I have a couple more corporate meetings than I used to have, um, but I just talk to customers, um, you know, whether it's on Facebook or Instagram DMs or Zoom or whatever. I mean, I'm always— I'm always talking to customers. because that's what I enjoy. That's also where I learn. That's how we got here. I don't really want to change that. So yeah, that's what I do.

What's the customer's greatest pain points and fears nowadays in this agentic age?

Well, I think everybody's always in a different place. So I think when you meet new people, it's how do I get started? How do I get my first client? And then I think when you have these existing folks, it's Do I have to change? And if I do, what does that look like? What does that mean? And am I still gonna be able to put food on the table and grow my business and go on vacation, all those things? And so I think to a great extent, the concerns are always the same. They may be at different stages of their business, but they're the same question really. How do I make money? How do I keep providing value to my clients so they'll keep me around? That has always been the question. And I think that always will be the question.

And you feel that your flame is at its highest nowadays as it's ever been, or do you get bored sometimes? Like, is this—

Oh no, I definitely do not get bored. Um, no, I, I think that, uh, I think actually things are competitive in a way that they haven't been in a long time, and it's such a— actually such a positive thing because I think it is forcing all kinds of people, myself included, to really change up how we think about things and how we do things. And honestly, what we can do, I think, has expanded greatly. I mean, for me, like I cited earlier, I didn't think we would be able to serve businesses at as deep of a level as I always wanted to. And now I think that that's so possible and now just inevitable. So the amount of software that we can now, in my opinion, replace relative to what we once sort of thought of being able to replace has radically expanded. So it's a totally new ballgame. It's a lot more fun.

What's the highest grossing initiatives, growth initiative that you have nowadays?

Well, I mean, that's a good question. I mean, I think AI is the— is— so we're going to be making a really big announcement that I'm not going to spill the beans on, but next week that will change the game on this. But What I would say is that AI is an accelerant of adoption across the board, not a revenue model in and of itself. I think early on, because AI was so expensive, I think there was a lot of talk around how do you monetize it and how do you basically get paid back for it. But I think this is going to be like, I don't know, I'm going to date myself here, but at some point, people who, when you first got your first cell phone, If you're old enough, you know it used to be very expensive. There wasn't this thing called unlimited minutes and all this. You bought packages and all kinds of crazy stuff because minutes were expensive. But as time went on, the cost goes down and down and down and down and down. And eventually, guess what? It's unlimited calling, right? And it gets cheaper by the day. And this is where AI goes, but it goes there a lot faster than anything we've ever seen. And so any business model that's really based around selling inference, selling AI tokens, I think the cost of AI goes to free. I think it's something that will be in everything, will not be its own line item, and fundamentally is going to accelerate your business. It's not gonna be something that directly drives revenue for your business.

Right. Um, do you have a strategy to acquire, uh, smaller competitors at your size, at your scale? What do you think about that?

We almost— we've never acquired anybody, and we don't really do, we don't think about it a lot. And this is, you know, this is a little bit of a bias on our side, but when you can build anything, the point of an acquisition really starts to diminish. Because the problem is anybody's code is not your code and you have to integrate that and everything else. But let's just assume even that was easy. Fundamentally, you know, then you have to move all the customers over and do they like you? Do they like your new model? You know, on and on. I mean, for us, they're just, it seems like a really, it doesn't seem like an impossibility. It just seems very hard. And when you're already in the midst of doing so many other things, it would really take a big opportunity to come along to make that happen. Because again, we would not— I mean, it's not impossible we couldn't acquire technology that we couldn't build ourselves. It's just the 1%, the 5% chance, not the 95%. So it's just, you know, if the right opportunity came along, sure, but we don't look for it.

Is there such a thing as an agency apocalypse right now with like all these tools being available?

No way, man. Ultimately, Again, you know, this is going to go the same way every other technology revolution has gone. Everyone knows they need— you know, when websites first came out, everyone knew they needed websites, but nobody went off and built their own website. They're like, I know I need a website, who can build me one? Like, I know I need AI to change my business, who can come and use AI to change my business? There is actually more opportunity now than ever because the small businesses that are running around out there, they do not have any more time now than they had before. This idea that the plumber can, you know, I used to laugh, well, the plumber's not going to market themselves. Well, guess what? The plumber is not going to cloud code themselves anything. Fundamentally, they don't have any more time, but they do want their businesses to be better. They do want to grow. They do want to be more operationally efficient, and they're going to look for experts to help them do that. And now it's even easier to make this happen. And think about how it used to be when you first started as an agency. You would get a couple of clients and what would happen? You would get stuck. You'd be like, okay, I don't have any more time to actually sell because I'm doing implementation all the time. I'm stuck. I have very limited revenue. Now I got to go hire somebody. But now with AI agents, you can keep expanding out like crazy before you ever have to hire anybody. It allows your business to be much more scalable. So in my opinion, you're going to see a just massive influx of more people into this industry who are all using these types of tools to create value for their customers.

Yes. Um, I think humans still want to talk with the human front end, right? And deal with like human agency founders. But that is like low adoption people, like early adopters. I think they're down to just buy from robots, right? So I think that will go down with time. Do you agree with that?

I mean, quite possibly, but someone has to build the robots to fix robots and make sure the robots do what you want them to do. And Fundamentally, you know, you have to also— there's going to be strategy changes. The thing that works today won't work tomorrow. I mean, at some point, these robots all are supposed to be serving humans, right? So as long as the humans they serve continue to evolve and change, then the robots will need to evolve and change, and someone will need to evolve and change the robots. And at some point, there's competition, and whose robot is better than whose robot at selling whatever it is they're selling? Someone is going to be an expert in that. And otherwise, there's really not much left for any of us to do. But until that day comes, I, I suspect there'll be somebody who is competing against somebody else. And whether you do that directly through an agent or you do that through some other medium, it's still the same concept. You need somebody behind the scenes making the decisions and deciding on what to— what weight to give to this and what weight to give to that. And, and, and much like marketing, it is a, is a non- static thing. The thing that is today will not be tomorrow. And so you'll always need somebody who's an expert at this. And all the while, the small business owner will be out there doing what they do and working with someone to continue to evolve their business with this technology. So that's where I just don't see a diminishment in the number of agencies anytime soon.

Well, I think like apex predators will always be around, like, uh, in human magic, that is, right? Like the 1%, uh, If you'd have to quantify, qualify, what is your human magic? What is Sean Clark's magic? Like, what, what is it? What's your number one thing?

Oh, I have no idea. I'm not very good at much.

Um, but I didn't probably tell you, but yeah, go, go ahead.

I mean, I, I don't know, you tell me. I mean, I really enjoy what I do. I like talking to customers. I learn. I mean, these things excite me, I'll tell you that. And I love seeing how technology can be used to help the— help, help people do really amazing things, change their lives. So for me, that's, uh, that, that's— I guess if I have any magic, that's my magic.

Yeah, I think it's your energy. It's your, it's your drive. You're like, uh, you know, like one of these monkeys that claps, you know?

And yes, that's perfect. Exactly. I'm just that guy. I'm just that monkey that claps. Exactly. That's perfect.

And that monkey has really good ideas, you know, like the referral thing is insanely good, right?

Every so often, you know, every so often.

The white label, the being at the right place at the right time. And I think that's human magic, right? computing space-time, making sense out of it, and just having that hunch, right? And that gut feeling. And obviously you're great at driving the company. How much employees do you have right now? 2,000?

Yeah, about 2,000.

That's insane.

Yeah, I mean, and I think it's gonna be interesting because normally it's all about what are you gonna grow to? But I think now, I think the question is, What do we really need to grow headcount? Because I think it's really— I think so. Well, and I think AI adoption is going to change that and it's going to allow our workforce to do so much more. And for me right now, it's making sure that before we add headcount, the headcount we have is using the tools that are now just coming out. And I mean, look at the new set of tools that just came out, right? The Dot, the Groq bots, those kind of things. Now all of a sudden these agents are allowing even more functionality to come out. So it's pretty cool. And you got to make sure that everybody's using those tools properly because You wanna make sure that next time you do add somebody, they work beautifully in that mix and you've already got all that stuff figured out so that way you're not in the midst of all that. But yeah, we do have a lot of people, but again, it's fascinating to see how much more each of those people can do without working any more hours in a day.

And doesn't that make you anxious to manage 2,000 people? Like what— Well, I don't manage 2,000.

That's a great example. So maybe the other piece of magic I have is I'm good at, I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at. I'm a terrible manager. I don't manage 2,000 people. people. My co-founders are way smarter at all of that than I am. You know, I get to talk to our amazing people and I get to work with them, but I manage almost none of them because I'm a terrible manager.

Right. What are your stress release mechanisms was sort of my question.

Hmm, that's a good question. I think I'm fairly stressed most of the time, so I don't really think I have a stress release mechanism that I'm aware of. You know, I'm always I'm always thinking about what's coming next and always trying to work to make things better. And yeah, just kind of on repeat. So, um, yeah, I don't, I don't know. Can't, can't help it.

Old school, uh, Elon type go, go, go sort of.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I didn't try. I did— I'm not trying for this. It's just how I come wired.

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for being on, Sean, again. Where can people find out more about you? Uh, is it— I think you bought the full HighLevel website.

We did, but we redirected it to GoHighLevel. So There you go. Just proves you don't need— GoHighLevel is good enough for me. And so, but yes, we did buy HighLevel. And, uh, you definitely— but the better thing to do, in my opinion, also is just go to YouTube and search HighLevel because I think you get to see a lot more, uh, of what we do and who we do it with.

There you go. So gohighlevel.com.