Mack Brown: Chapter 18 - Becoming the Total Athlete

They're a reflection of you. And if your team's not playing hard, that's because of you, because you haven't prepared them to play hard. And that's one of the things that I get most excited about, is teaching young people to be ready to go.

Whether it's your training, whether it's your conditioning, whether it's a game, whether it's a practice, whether it's your team meeting, whether it's because that's who you're going to be as a father, that's who you're going to be as a husband, that's who you're going to be as whatever job, profession you decide to go into, that's it. And if you don't come ready to go and you're responsible for 2,000 people, you've lost a day, man, and you may get fired. So be ready to go. And be ready to go at everything you do every day.

You're listening to the Vision of a Champion Podcast with Anson Dorrance, eight time coach of the year, 22 time national champion coach of the 1991 Women's World Cup Team hall of Famer, leader and mentor to so many in the soccer community. On this podcast, Anson brings on players and coaches to discuss what it means.

To be a champion.

The drive, the passion, the desire, and, yes, the stories.

Here's your host, Voice of the North Carolina Courage and North Carolina FC Dean Linke.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Vision of a Champion podcast. I'm your host, Dean Linke, and Today we have UNC's head football coach sitting down to talk about chapter 18 of the vision of a Champion podcast. I'm so excited and I can't wait to to hear the commentary because today we get a chance to talk about, quote, becoming the total athlete, end quote. And of course, our special guest today is the Mac Brown. He is currently in his second stint as the head football coach at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where He coached from 1988 until he departed to become the head coach for the University of Texas in 1997, where he, of course, won a national championship. He In January 2018, Brown was selected to the College Football hall of Fame. He is now back at Carolina and coming off an Orange bowl appearance and he looks to bring the first national championship to Chapel Hill. Welcome, Mack Brown, to the Vision of a Champion Podcast.

Thank you, Dean. Thanks so much for having me on between you and Anson.

And Anson's been a dear friend for.

Many, many years and I admire him. So much as a person, so much.

Of what he's done on the field is lessons for all of us that we can learn from him. And the young ladies that he's coached are, a lot of them are friends of mine now, and they've made a difference in our world. So it's not just about the coaching, it's not just about what happens on the field, but the effect that a great coach has on his players for the the rest of their life.

Amen. So let's get started, Anson, by having both of you talk about anecdotal stories about the other. So, Anson, tell us a story about your friendship with Mr. Mack Brown.

Well, I learned at his feet. I remember the old days. I was the warm up band for Mac and Dean Smith, and they'd have me speaking in front of the alumni and of course I was. They got me out of the way as quickly as possible because no one wanted to listen to me. And I get to watch these two extraordinary men sort of embrace the entire Carolina athletic community. The thing I loved about Mac is he's like an evangelist. He gets up there, he embraces everyone in the room. And I just love listening to him speak. He understands that we are a community. He has the capacity, even from a podium, to bring everyone close to him. And you're right about his sense of humor. I spent the whole time listening to him speak and I was laughing the whole time. He is just such a great public, basically speaker. And I learned a lot about how to do those things just watching him work. And then of course, I admired what he did because we were struggling as a football program and he turned us around. And I just can't believe how we did it originally. And then watching his magic act right now is just extraordinary. How he could come in and right out of the gate, the whole culture changes. We start to win against elite teams, and I'm just so excited he's with us. I love the fact that he actually embraces me. I was also shocked that Dean Smith did. So I feel really, really fortunate to have a man like Mac leading our athletic department. But also being a part of my.

Life and Dean, a lot of that was true. But he and I both were the warm up acts for Dean. We would come in and they'd say.

Is Coach Smith here?

And if he wasn't, they'd say, oh, man, really, I got you and Anson.

And if Coach Smith was there, they'd.

Say, okay, you guys, hurry, get through your stuff. But usually Coach would say three things and leave. And Then Anson and I were there till 12:30 at night talking to people. So it was unique and different. But we also both learned a lot from Coach Smith.

I love it. I love that we're already telling stories. And, Mac, you did a great job setting up. And let me actually add on to what Anson said. As someone who lives in Chapel Hill, it's been a breath of fresh air to have a football team that makes us proud. And you've certainly done that. So thank you on behalf of everybody that loves unc. You already saluted Anson when you first came on. But talk about maybe something or some philosophy that you have taken from Anson's program, which is, of course, the winningest program for any sport, any gender that you've incorporated into your football program.

Well, you look at who you want to be like. And Anson's smart, he's very, very competitive, and he's all class. And.

It'S not hard to win sometimes. If you break rules, Anson's going to go by all the rules. It's harder to win when you do everything right. Cause not everybody does. Secondly, it's hard to show class when you're winning all the time and then you do lose because you're not used to it and your players aren't used to it. So it's a very difficult thing. People wouldn't think that. But when you're winning all the games and you don't, that's when your real character shows out. And that's when Anson's at his best, is handling a crisis, handling defeat, and turning them into a positive. And I've learned that losing is something you can learn from. I used to hate it. I'd get depressed and I'd go in a tank for two or three days, and it wasn't any good. And Sally said, yeah, he wouldn't talk to me till Tuesday. I didn't want to talk to her on Tuesday. I just had to by the time we got back. But I've learned that losing.

Can teach you a lot better lessons than winning. And you've got. You can't embrace losing. You don't want to lose. It makes you sick. But if you do your best and you lose and you learn from it, then it'll try to keep you from doing it again. And that's what I learned from Anson. He's the same every day. Coaches have to be here, and we have to show a calmness. We have to show a confidence and not an arrogance. And there's. People watch what we do every day. You watch Anson's body language. He's always upbeat, he's always positive. And that's very, very important for young people to watch and our fans to watch. And if you are down as the head coach, everybody's going to be down because they know you've got more information than anybody else. So you have to be upbeat, and you have to feel good about your program. And you're constantly teaching, and whether it's taking negatives and turning them into positives, taking crisis and turn them into positives, or if it's showing your team how to be humble after a big win, you're constantly teaching, so you're never off stage. And you've got to have a tremendous amount of energy. And Anson and I are getting more experience than we used to be. And what I feel like is that age is not an issue. Your energy and your passion are. And coming back, Dean, a lot of people said, I'm too old. I can't come back and coach. I can't relate to kids. Well, I found out that there's not a generation gap between kids. There's a communication gap. And if you. If you can talk to people, you can talk to people. And kids want to be good, they want to be disciplined, they want to be fit, they want to be coached hard, they want to graduate. So none of that's changed. So that's not a communication gap. That's what they want, and that's what I want for them. So the generational stuff doesn't matter. Has the music changed? Yeah. Have certain attitudes with parents changed? Yeah, but these kids haven't changed, and that's what we're here to try to help them grow.

Well, you hit a lot of the components on what it takes to become in the total athlete. So let's get that conversation started about this chapter, becoming the Total athlete. And one of the things that he already mentioned, Anson, is about being fit. Can you tell us a little bit about your philosophy of why the fitter you are, the harder it is to surrender?

Yeah.

I mean, for us, and Mac knows this because, heck, they've got a whole industry built around constructing football players to be incredibly fit and strong. And obviously, a lot of the success of the athletes that he's training is their commitment and discipline and to get to their potential. And it's the same for me, but I want to just share one other thing so Mac's aware of how much fun we're having. Mac, I'm playing pickleball with half your staff, and I absolutely love it. They are the greatest collection of coaches. They are having so much fun, and we are enjoying their company. And it was really interesting because I have been playing with Jeff for quite a while, your linebacker coach, and what an amazing athlete, but also what a great guy. And then all of a sudden, Dre Bly gets out there, and all of a sudden, he was shocked that I knew that he had paid for his scholarship back in the day when he was in the NFL, and he was shocked that I even knew about that. I said, you know, there are things like that. People do things like that we never forget. Because you've got this attitude about paying back to the different groups that have made a difference in your life that meant the world to me, that you basically paid back the scholarship that we gave you while you were a football player here. And he said so many positive things, Mac, about you and about how he loved coming back, but also that gesture in itself. I mean, in this age where everyone's incredibly selfish, and yet he comes out and then contributes money back to the school that gave him his start. And also, in a way, contributing back to you and the example that you showed. And I just want you to know, Mac, how much fun we are having playing with all of those wonderful coaches that you hired. We have got to get you out there, and we have got to have some fun. But I will tell you, this community is extraordinary. And a part of it is what we are doing to help these kids get to their potential. And a part of it is what this chapter is all about. We have got to help them organize and discipline their lives to get to the promised land. And you can't do anything in athletics without a foundation of some kind of self discipline. And in my sport, you've got to touch certain boxes physically in order to compete. And obviously, it's similar in football. Obviously, we're checking different boxes. We need an aerobic box probably more than the average football player, but they need a strength box more aggressively than we do. But it's something that's a foundation for us. And this discipline that we've got to help them get to as they're competing as undergraduates is critical. And I know it's the same thing for football.

Well, Anson, I hear about your pickleball matches all the time, and I know they're very competitive. And I'm thinking about getting ESPN to come in and go live, because I think that'd be really, really good. But don't get one of them hurt. I tell my guys they're not in good shape. Talk about Fitness. Dre's got some work to do. He's like me. So you keep beating them, keep beating them down, make them fight to get back in there. But, no, don't get them hurt.

Well, since you mentioned fitness, talk about how it equates to a good football program, a winning football program. Fitness.

Mac Dean, we've got 120 players, and.

Mental health is a huge part of our game because only 11 play at a time. So we've got depression, we've got disappointments, we've got parents that don't understand why their young people aren't playing, probably more than any other sport. So we deal with morale, we deal with mental health, and that is where the fitness comes in. That's where the branding comes in. So we have a nutritionist, and what they eat is so important. So we have a nutrition staff, and every day our players have to eat, and we check them in to eat to make sure they are. They have to take their plate to the young ladies on the nutrition staff and get it checked off of what's on it. And for our listeners, that's so important, what you eat, because that's what you become. And your fuel, they constantly say, you're gonna put bad gas in your car. No. So put good fuel in your body. Your body's so precious to you. Then secondly, we've got Dwight Hollier that works with mental health. Then we've got Kelsey Gomes that works with our nutrition. And then you've got Brian Hess, who is probably the most valuable coach on our staff, and he has five assistants. So those guys constantly work with our guys on their fitness, and that's toughness, and that's conditioning, and that's mental conditioning and physical conditioning. And Dean Hansel tell you, they're around him a whole lot more than I am. They have them every day. And now they're like Olympic athletes. There's no days off. So even if they're not here, they're conditioning, and they're listening to Coach Hess. And he's in his 30s. He's in great shape. He has energy. He brings that energy every day. He creates an edge every day at their workouts, and he encourages them to do the things he's doing with full energy, and that's why we're in great shape now. We lost to Notre Dame with a minute so left in the game because we got beaten down and we gave out. And we lost to Texas A and M with five minutes left because we got beaten down, because we gave out. So we've got to do two things. We've got to get stronger. We've got to have more stamina at the end of the game, but also we've got to play more people, and that keeps a healthy person on the field. Because I asked Coach Guthridge once why he and Coach Smith were so successful here in basketball. And it's obvious. It's North Carolina basketball. It's obvious that we recruit great players. And I said, well, other people have some great players, too. He said, ours is pt. And I said, what does it mean, Coach? He said, playing time when your starter is just tired enough that your backup can come in and play 15 plays in football better than your starter tired because he's fresh, that's what you have to do. So they all need to be in great shape, but we've got to keep somebody fresh in the game, and that's our job. So our job is to teach more than one at each position and make sure that they're fresh and they're excited about being in the game and they're playing at 100%. So in practice, we grade every play, and if anyone's not going 100%, then we bring it up and we address it. Because we said, you either go 100% or get out. And if you can't go 100%, it's your responsibility to tell us and get out. And then you've either got to get in better shape or play fewer plays because you have to earn your right to play. And now we're starting Dane after yesterday's practice. If anyone doesn't sprint in practice, they simply make up that sprint after practice. So that would be extra conditioning. Some people call it discipline. It's a combination of both. It's an awareness because you are what you do every day. So if your habits in practice are that you play 100% every day, then in the games, you're going to play 100%. And one of the key things I noticed with ESPN for five years is a lot of teams don't play hard. There's more people that lose games than win them. And if you're not ready to play, how bad of you? You don't have many of these things. So when you have one, be ready to play and create an edge before every game. So shame on you as a coach because they. They're a reflection of you. And if your team's not playing hard, that's because of you, because you haven't prepared them to play hard. And that's one of the things that I get most excited about is teaching young people to be ready to go.

Whether it's your training, whether it's your conditioning, whether it's a game, whether it's a practice, whether it's your team meeting, because that's who you're going to be as a father, that's who you're going to be as a husband, that's who you're going to be as whatever job, profession you decide to go into, that's it. And if you don't come ready to go and you're responsible for 2,000 people, you've lost a day, man, and you may get fired. So be ready to go, and be ready to go at everything you do every day.

Anson, I feel like he's speaking your language on every single sentence.

I can't believe it. First of all, absolutely brilliant, Mac. There's so many things to unpack in what you just shared, and I don't know where to begin, but. Yeah, I never thought about that. With 120 players in your roster and only 11 playing. Yeah, you're colliding with all of these different issues that these families have that have put all their hopes into their son, who now has an opportunity to get to the NFL, I guess. And so, yeah, I can see the mental health thing being a huge challenge with the number of people that you have on your roster and how few play. But also what you shared, I really appreciate, because we have a similar philosophy to what you're describing. And what that is, is we believe in substitution. And in our game, Mac, traditionally they don't substitute. So we are criticized by everyone that competes against us for the fact that we substitute. And our philosophy is exactly yours. Here is the way it works. We've got starters and reserves. When do we put the reserve in? We put the reserve in when we think an inferior player fresh is better than a superior player fatigued. That's the demarcation line. And I love that you are saying the same thing, because the way we work it is, yeah, you want to play 90 minutes a game, which for us is the entire game, you got to be so frigging fit that I can't put someone in that's going to work harder than you when you're fatigued and have a greater impact. And so what ends up happening for the kids that do play maximum minutes? Here are their names. Mia Hamm. Christine Lilly, Cindy Parlo. Yeah, there's a kid that is so frigging aggressive and fit, they can last the entire game. And those are kids we only Pulled out for five minutes a half. And it's not a talent issue. You hit the nail on the head. It's a do you sprint every play issue. And if you don't, I love what you're saying. You have them do it after practice, but in a game, of course, neither you or I can do that because we want to win the game. So now we have to sort it out. And I like what you're saying right now. You're saying the athlete has to come up to you and say, hey, Coach, I think I should take this play off because I'm a little fatigued. And then you do put a reserve in that's got the energy, and now all of a sudden, you've got all this personal responsibility. So what you just shared right now is unbelievably deep and profound. And, Dean, I completely agree with it. And, Mac, I appreciate you sharing that. And also for anyone listening, oh, my gosh, if we could have someone look at our plate every day, we would be in such incredible health. And they would say, no, Anson, you have to put that bacon cheeseburger back on the shelf. And, yes, you've got to grab that broccoli you just walked by. And then we would be transformed, I'm sure, with these sorts of people that were helping us with our discipline. But, Mac, that was incredible what you're sharing, and that's a wonderful lesson for all of us in sports. So thank you, sir.

Well, Anson, everything we try to do like you is to teach the young people to be more competitive. So we actually had a competition. They drafted teams for the off season. And then if you didn't show up for your meal, if you didn't eat the proper food, you were graded down by the nutritionist, and your team lost points. If you didn't show up for your workout, if you didn't lift a certain amount, if you weren't at a certain level in your running, if you were late to class, if you missed a tutoring session, they marked your team down, and it got really, really competitive. So because we're trying to teach them, everything's important. And I've learned there are no little things. If they're little things, throw them out. Because the things in our lives are big. And when you say, here's a little thing you need to do, no, if you need to do it, it's big. And that's the other part of what we've told the kids. You've got to trust us enough. We've got to trust you enough. If I Say I can't go 100%. Tap your helmet. We'll get you out. We'll get somebody else in. But you got to be honest with us. So don't try to fight through it. Try to get in better shape and you get more plays, but don't be a fraud. Don't stay out there and act like you're going to be 100% when you're not. It is what it is. We call it facts. And that's something, Edson, that we're so direct with our team. Now, when I'll say something that's probably way too direct for some of them, I've got 120 of them saying facts. We don't like it, but it's facts. So.

So we got it, Mac, I love it. Because obviously, like you, we try to compete in practice like there's no tomorrow. But I like what you're doing. You're taking it off the field as well. Because you're right. All these pieces make a difference. And holy cow. Yeah. What I'm thinking of doing now, we're going to have a new category. Thanks to this podcast, we're going to add a category if a kid misses a tutorial. There's going to be a competitive ladder for that, too, on what happens off the field. You're right, Mac, if you miss a class. So we're going to redesign it and we're going to call it the Mack Brown competitive category. It's going to be sitting there on our bulletin board and it's going to involve the things off the field as well. So, Mac, you've taught me something already, so thank you. Thank you.

All the ladies will be mad at me, so be careful.

Yes, absolutely. They're going to be upset with you and that's much better than having them upset with me. So we're going to have a new column with your name on it. It's going to drive them all nuts.

When I walk by and they don't speak to me on campus. Now I'll know why. At least I got it.

And you'll know why that it's working, by the way, as well. So there you have it.

Hey, everyone, we're going to take a quick break here to tell you about our sponsor, soccer.com Anson has been coaching for 44 years and it seems like soccer.com has been around nearly that long as well. It's pretty close as the soccer.com business has been family run and based in Hillsborough, North Carolina since 1984. If you're a player Or a coach who needs soccer shoes, equipment, gear, whatever it may be, do what the pros do. Head on over to soccer.com. this is Dean Linke. I hope you've been enjoying the podcast. And I wanted to make you aware that Anson just released a new audiobook version of his hardcover book, the Vision of a Champion. Now you can listen to the book, narrated by Anson Dorrance, and switch back to the free podcast to hear the stars of the women's game discuss each chapter. The Vision of a Champion audiobook is available on Apple Books, Amazon's, Audible, Google Play, or wherever you get your audiobooks. To find it, simply search the Vision of a Champion audiobook. Now, let's get back to the show.

So we've covered fitness, we've covered discipline, we've covered nutrition. Mac, I want to move back to you about strength and conditioning. In the 90s, you had the dog team, which included Jeff, Mad Dog Madden. And what was the criteria for choosing Brian Hess to deepen your athlete's conditioning platform?

We're in the modern world, and what Brian does that impressed me so much is he individualizes every position because the offensive linemen, the receivers don't need to have the same program. That's the 90s where we just lifted. Now, there's a means and a madness for helping you get better at everything you do. And Brian sits down with each one of them and goes over, here's your training program and here's why and here's what you need. Work in the area. We never say something bad. We say, here's what you do well and here's areas of concern. And unless you get these areas of concern fixed, you're not going to play. So understand that this is, this is what we've got to fix. And Brian had worked with Jay Bateman, our defensive coordinator at army, and he had worked with Phil Longo, our offensive coordinator at Sam Houston. They both raved about him. And a lot of people were wanting me to bring Mad Dog back and he was great for us. A lot of people wanted me to hire a pro strength coach because that helps them get to the NFL. What I did is I fell in love with the 33 year old at that time, Brian Hess, who was totally into the kids, totally into development, and totally into individualizing every workout for every player to a point. They knew they were getting better. And Anson can tell you it is hard to like your strength coach. And these guys love him. And I can't figure it out. He wears them out every day and they love him, they're just. They can't wait for workouts. The other thing he does, he makes it fun. And that's something Anson's always done. But I've learned. We were coaching in the national championship game against Pete Carroll, and I had a lady email me after the game and said, you don't look happy. You won the game, but Pete Carroll looks like he's having fun and he's happy. And if very honestly. And she was a PR lady that I really liked. She was with President Bush, and she said, if I had a son coming out in recruiting, I want you to know I'd send him to Pete Carroll because they're having more fun than you are. And I thought I was working, man. I was concentrating, I was thinking. But she's right. So we have to learn to communicate with our guys.

But we want to be fair. We want to be consistent. We want to always do what we know is the right thing to do, but we want to have fun. And that's. So our four principles now are have fun. Because not many college football teams are. They're all miserable, and they're worried about losing, and the coaches worried about getting fired. So we want to have fun, we want to graduate, we want to win all the games, and we want to better prepare our guys and help them brand themselves for life after football. And that's a very simple philosophy. But if you ask any of our players today what four principles do we base things on, they would give you those four principles, and then they would say, we wouldn't have social justice issues if we were fair. We wouldn't be having political issues if we were just fair. Let's just do what's right, and let's be consistent with who we are, and our life would be a lot better. And that's what we try to do with our players. We try to be as fair as we can. They're not all the same. You can't treat everybody the same. You have to be fair. And fair may mean different to a guy who's been in trouble four times, as to a guy that's never been any trouble and messed up. So to say that you can blanket your discipline, blanket who you are, is not fair. And that's what Brian Hess does. He handles them all. And I know the other thing, Dean, that Anson and I always have to worry about with strength programs and conditioning programs is health. They can kill a person if they're not in shape or they're a little heavier or they just got in, and it's August and that summer heat. And Brian has really taken care of these kids. I mean, we had 12 early enrollees that are high school seniors. We don't even let them work out with our team. They work out separately because we're trying to teach them how to lift. And if you throw them out there with those seniors that have been lifting for five years, and these guys get intimidated and they feel pressure and they try to overdo, you can have a stroke or a heart attack or die of heat. So I really trust Brian with these kids. And I've tried to. As I've learned, I tried not to hire a coach that I wouldn't want or a strength coach that I wouldn't want teaching my son or my grandson. And that's a very simple process. And then I asked the coaches and the trainers, you treat our players like you would want your son treated. And then if one of them yells at one of them or he's cussing one of them, I said, okay, hey, come here. Would you do that to your son? Well, no, I said, then you're wrong. Come on, man, pick him up. Don't beat him down. And that's just the way we run it. But that's why Brian Hess is here, and. And he's one of the best in the country, and he's made a huge difference in who we are, and he's so competitive. When I said in the staff meeting one day, you know, we got beat down the fourth quarter at Notre Dame, they were bigger than we were and they have more depth. We got beat down. He said, oh, man, I hate to hear that. Gosh, that's awful. We're going. We're going to get there, Coach. We're going to get them in. So every day he talks about A and M and Notre Dame's fourth quarter, trying to make sure that we get better.

Well, let me jump in, Dean, because I want to share this, because Mac hit on something that makes such a difference for me as well. He has his Brian Hess. I brought in a guy by the name of Damon Nahas, and a part of it was what the theme that Mack was talking about just now. I'm getting a lot older, and I can't bring the same passion and enthusiasm to every minute of every practice the way I used to. And I remember when I was watching Damon work as a youth coach, and I was stunned at the level of his teams. And so I felt I had to bring him in. And since I brought him in, he's our Brian Hess, because I'll Tell you this, holy cow. He comes in with so much energy, it's extraordinary. And I'm riding his wave and he just comes in and the kids are having incredible fun. And all the things that you just shared just now, Mac, are so profound on the balance you've got to have within your staff. And he provides that for me as well. And, yes, what a difference it makes. What a difference it makes. When he comes in, he's got new ideas. The kids absolutely love playing hard for him in practice. And you see it translated into the games. And he's extending my coaching lifespan because, holy cow, if I were doing all this by myself still, I mean, Mac's talking about, you know, heart attacks on the field. I would have had a heart attack a long time ago without this guy working himself to death in my program. And so for me, Mac, you have just hit another incredibly profound element in terms of the construction of your staff, because you want to surround the kids with people that do love them, that do care about them, that do challenge them, but also design an environment that's fun. Because you're right. And it's so interesting you say that, Mac, because I wanted to design a team and a program I would love to play in. And so it's so interesting that our philosophies are so similar in so many different ways. And so as a result, and Mac's going to be afraid to hear this, I have a program without rules. I hate rules. I went to a boys boarding school. And what was our job? Every day at this boys boarding school, we're going to find a rule, we break it and not get caught. And then we'd be heroes. And so, yeah, I hate rules. And so what do we do? We do principle centered living. And so everything I've designed is exactly along the lines of what Mac's talking about. I want my kids to have fun. I don't want to be looking over their shoulders to think they're breaking this rule or that rule. That's why the entire bulletin board, when they break a rule, like missing a tutorial or a study hall, is going to have Mack Brown's name at the top of it. So they know I had nothing to do with this particular rule that's being enforced. And so we're turning that responsibility over to Mac. But, Mack, you're adept and understanding of how to organize your platforms, and of course I'm joking is just phenomenal. So thank you for what you're sharing because it's unbelievably deep and profound.

Thank You, Anson. And weirdly enough, now we don't have rules either. We've told our guys we're not going to sit around and nitpick you. You've been raised right, and you know what to do. So if you don't do what's right, there's consequences. And understand that. And if you don't hustle in practice, if we sprint every day in practice, there is no running after practice because I hated sprints after practice. And if you run every day, you're in shape. That's what you're doing. You're preparing for the game. But if you don't, then you're cheating yourself and you're cheating us. So we need to catch up. But we've said the same thing. You know what's right when they said, can we wear a hat inside? And I said, sure, but if an adult comes up, take the hat off, reach out and speak to them. Introduce yourself if you want to get a job later. So that's just it. Can we wear red? Because we hate NC State. I said, yeah, you can wear red, but beat NC State. I mean, you can still not. Not like your rival and have to beat them. But I don't care if you wear red. I don't wear red. But you can. That's okay. But you still got to beat NC State, so. So we did the same thing. We don't want to nitpick them. And you know, if you use drugs, it's illegal, you're going to get in trouble if you drink too much and you're driving, it's what a dangerous thing. And you're going to get in trouble. So you know, you know what's right and you know what's wrong. And don't come into my office with messing something up. You need to do what's right.

This has been so much fun to see how both of you have built your programs and your success. They're so similar. This is kind of a softball. But because we're talking about becoming the complete athlete, can you guys just share how fitness and discipline and nutrition crosses over to the tactical and technical part? Because if you're all those things, you're probably pretty good at at the technical and tactical part as well.

Go ahead, Mac.

I really think that confidence.

Is such a powerful thing for all of us. And if you don't have it, you're not going to be successful because it's going to eat you alive. And whether you're in front of people talking or whether you're coaching or whether you're playing. When you get in that tight moment in a contest, you better be confident, man, and you better have seen yourself being there before and being successful and Dean to be confident without the nutrition. Sleep. We didn't mention sleep. You've got to sleep in college, and that's something those kids don't like.

Whether it's the screen, the video games, the Twitter. At 2 o' clock in the morning, I can see when they're up. That's where they got a problem. Now. I can see when he tweeted that last tweet, say, man, you're up at 2:00'. Clock. I hope you just woke up and tweeted and went back to sleep. But they didn't. So you've got to have your nutrition or you don't feel good. And if you don't feel good, you can't have a great experience every day. You can't be ready every day. You can't be. You got to have your fuel, man. You got to be pumped up. You can't feel good unless your body's in great shape and you're strong. And Brian flexes them so much. We stretch before practice, we stretch during practice, we stretch after practice. And I haven't been around a lot of that before. And as Anson and I get older, you're stiffer, you got to stretch. And he does that. And they know that helps them become faster and keeps them healthier. And the other thing for Anson and I, we need people to stay on the field. If you're hurt, you can't play. And we say you can't make the club in the tub, man. So you got to play well to play. They got to eat right, they got to sleep right, they got to stretch right, and they got to lift right? So to me, it goes back to confidence. Not arrogance, but confidence that I am in shape, I am getting my rest. I am in incredible strength that I have improved over time, and I am very flexible. So I am going to stay healthy and I can turn it loose and go. So create the edge. Be ready to go. Be confident that you have done everything within your power to put your best you out there. Then turn it loose and go. And you've done everything you can do. And coach Royal, the awesome coach at Texas that won three national championships, told me your team shouldn't ever lose a game. Maybe they run out of time. But if you're doing everything you can do and you play as well as you can till the last kick, like we did a couple of years ago when I saw us playing Florida State. We played great. We did everything we could do. It's down to the end, man. That's what we got. So we didn't lose the game. We just ran out of time.

Yeah, Dean, let me jump in, because I love all the stuff that Mac is sharing, and obviously he has access to this information as well. Our kids are all wearing GPS units. You can't hide from the numbers anymore. They wear them in their jog bras. And basically, we know after every practice their distance, their high speed running, their acceleration, their deceleration, the number of sprints. We know so much data, it's extraordinary. But so do they because we email it to them and then what we do before every practice, because in our traditions, if you finish in the top four in our competitive cauldron, you have an opportunity generally to play on the US Full national team eventually. And so what we do is before every practice, we actually, even though we've already sent it to them, we read out the top four in distance, top four in speed, and, you know, sprints, etc. So we can celebrate them. And right after, you know, number one, and by the way, we've got a father on this call, Mac, whose daughter's extraordinary. Brianna Pinto's one of the best players in the country right now, and we expect her to finish the top four in all these different categories. And we read them out so, you know, in. In sprints. And number one, Pinto, number two, door work, number three. So we read all four names out, and then all the girls clap twice right after this because we want to celebrate it. And Max, absolutely correct. Because if we can create an environment where everyone is checking all the boxes, doing all the right things, we're going to have an extraordinary confidence going into every game with the knowledge that we've done everything we can to prepare for this game and then to win. And then the famous demarcation line. When do I pull you out? Well, when is an inferior player fresh, better than a superior player fatigued? And that's when my job becomes a part of it. So I've got to look and see. Well, you know, yeah, that kid's starting to suffer a bit. So now this kid has to go in because we're starting to lose that part of the field or that area. And of course, when Max coaching and that section of the offensive or defensive line. And so for me, these are things that make the biggest difference in the world, because we are. We're constructing human beings and we're doing it through the conduit of athletics. And all these things, Mac, you've shared with me today are extraordinarily profound and deep. And I appreciate this wonderful information that you're sharing with all the people that are a part of our program. And so I've really, really enjoyed this, Mac. So thank you, sir.

Thank you, Anthony. Dean, let me. Let me say one other thing, too. Accountability is a word that we use all the time, because if you aren't accountable to your coaches and your teammates, and you're not holding up your end of your unit, then you're not worth it. You're not paying the price. You're not doing what you're supposed to do. So if we lose a game, don't let it be you, because when we weren't around you, you weren't accountable. And I'm so proud of our kids, our medical staff and stuff. And I'll say this and be through. We only had one person miss a game last year with COVID out of 120. And we had our little spike in the summer where some went to a restaurant to eat, and they came back and brought it back. And our older guys, and that's the accountability of the team, got with the younger guys and said, look, man, I want to play. If you don't want to play, that's fine. Coach will let you keep your scholarship, go home, go do what you want to do. But you can't go to parties. You can't be in groups. You can't go out to eat. We got to create this bubble, and it is what it is. And I told them, I'll go fish, I'll go play golf. I'm fine if you all don't want to play. But if you want to play, man, this is going to be hard. And they did that because they were accountable to each other. And accountable teams are usually teams that end up having the best chance to win.

Amen. As we wrap up this discussion on Total Athlete, we were supposed to mix in some CrossFit training, but I feel like you guys covered all that anyway. And really, just the discussion between the two of you is full stop, incredible. But, Mac, we'll end it with this. And then, Anson, I'll ask you a similar question. Can you share what the total athlete looks like in your sport? And have you coached somebody over the years that represents the total athlete? Does somebody come to mind as the, quote, total athlete, whatever that means?

Oh, gosh, Dean, I've coached so many, like, Anson, 32 years. It's just. It's hard to Choose.

Sure.

Because I've learned so much from our athletes and still do we, with all the social injustice, we have high percentages of players of color and coaches of color. And so we've had some hard discussions over the last year that some of the despicable things that have happened in our country and why and how do we get change?

So we put in a listen and learn concept. And the guys actually sat down with me and they said, coach, I can't say anything about social injustice because I'm black. And I may not get a job. I may not get to go to the NFL. I may not get drafted. Our coaches, our black assistant coaches said, me, too, coach. I can't. I may really make some people mad. I said, okay, I'll do it. I'm the voice. And the kids were great. They came to me and said.

I said, tell me what you want me to say, and I'll say it. And they said, why don't you just say what you feel? I said, I'm white. I'm ultimate white privilege, man. Nobody gonna stop me. And if they are, they're gonna say, hey, coach. Sorry, man. Sorry to bother you. Be careful. See you later. So I can't. I can't speak that. You gotta help me. So we went to every kid and every assistant coach, and Jeremy Sharp, our director of communications, he got this group of things together for me to say. So we put them together. It's about five minutes. And I said. I showed it to the team. And they said, man, you can't say that.

You'll get killed. And I said, no, I can. I'm your voice. I'm your voice. So, Dean, I've learned so much from so many of these young people. And I will say, the older I get, the better I listen. The older I get, the more I learn. And that's that stupid generation gap thing. Statement is just wrong, man. It's live and learn, listen and learn. And that's what's happened with me, with so many of these kids. And like, Mike Bolingbesy.

He'S a doctor at Duke Hospital. And I needed a knee replacement last year. He played safety for us. I called Michael and I said, michael, my knees bad. Will you look at it? He said, yeah, you need it fixed? And I said, when can I get it fixed? He said, Monday. And here's a guy I played for, I mean, that played for me, that's fixing my knee. He's an orthopedic surgeon. And so I get over there, and I'm laying on My back. And he's got the juice in me just enough. And he looks down, he says, you okay, coach? And I said, yeah, Michael, let me ask you a question. Did I ever make you mad? And he said, oh, coach, you made all of us mad, man. But it's okay. I'm going to take care of you. Go to sleep. So these kids are so incredible. Some doctors and lawyers and dentists and a guy operating on me. Who would have ever thought that, number one, I'd live long enough or have players to do that? So each one of the players on Anson's team or our team are so unique and so special that they add to society and they make a difference.

Angie Kelly was one of my best friends at Texas. I loved watching her, and I went to see her teams and not because I was out there wanting to see soccer. I loved Angie and she loves this place. And Mia Hamm came out and kicked field goals for us one day, kicked 40 yard field goals and embarrassed our kickers. And she was in blue jeans. I said, mia, will you kick? She said, sure. Took her shoe off and kicked. These are incredible young people that we are coaching and the gift that these places give. Anson and I are the kids that become adults. And Anson and I are so blessed. So many people never get to be a head coach, so they never have a family like this. And then so many get fired in the first year, third year, fifth year, so they don't have a group. Anson and I have years of families that on Father's Day call us and on Mother's Day call our wives and Christmas cards, send us their pictures of their families. I mean, it's the most incredible gift that no one thinks about. When they think about, how many games do you win and how many trophies do you have and how many championships? None of that really matters. It's just an avenue to get us back to the kids and them being part of our lives. So to answer your question, there's way too many. And I'll close with this. We won the national championship. And I was standing in the dressing room after the game and I was trying to think about what to say to them. That's pretty cool. So what do you say? So I said, thank you. This is really cool.

This is the best thing you can do in college football this year. President Bush even said, you know, you don't know if you're the best father. You don't know if you're the best husband. I don't know if I'm the best president. You are the best football team in the country and that's measured and state, so that's good. But then I said, don't be that 40 year old that's done nothing else in your life but talk about this game.

Let this moment make you a better husband, a better father, a better citizen, and let this be something you can build on. This can't be the best moment because you're too young. Let's keep getting best moments and let's do it over and over and let's outdo ourselves every time with our next best moment. And that's what has to happen to make this stuff work.

Anson.

Dean, I am not going to add to that. That is the last word. That was fantastic, Mac. I really appreciate you joining us and everything you shared is incredibly profound and deep in the most positive way. So I am proud you are my football coach and I'm so excited that you've shared with everyone your extraordinary knowledge. So, Mac, thank you very much. This was wonderful podcast for me.

Well, thank you, Dean, and thank you, Anson. And I will say that I love and admire you very much. And I walk to practice every day and I walk by Dorrance Field and I actually have a picture on my phone that I took that I was going to send you and I'm so scatterbrained I've still got it in my phone. I haven't sent it to you and tell you how proud I am every time I walk by there and look to my left and see your name and. And it just reminds me of all the things you've done to help people. And that's what that name is so significant on that stadium. And they usually don't do it till you die. So it's a lot better that we're alive and you get to have it named after you. But I don't have to send the picture now because I was able to tell you face to face.

Well, Coach, I appreciate that. That means the world to me. Thank you very much, Mac. Thank you indeed.

You both are outstanding winners and outstanding to have you both in Chapel Hill. That was Mack Brown talking about becoming the total athlete on the Vision of a Champion podcast. If you like this show, one way you can support our work is to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review as well. This show was edited and produced by Creative Allies. If you're looking for information on full service podcast production, head on over to creative allies.com for the great Mack Brown and Anson Dorrance. I'm Dean Linke and we'll see you the next time on the Vision of a Champion Podcast.

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