Rakel Campbell & Jenn Zaccagnini Beamer: Chapter 17 - Being a Team Player

This is my favorite part. This is where it made the. I mean, still, this is like 30 years later, right? It's just made such a huge difference. It was like the sliding door moment. I expressed that I wasn't sure I wanted to carry on with the team and he expressed back to me how important I was the team, and I wasn't seeing it. I was blown away that he thought that I was important to the team. And, and the way he expressed that I was important to the team was helping positively with the team chemistry, that I really cared about my teammates, I really cared about the team doing well. I wasn't.

First or second off the bench, maybe third or fourth. And anyways, he helped me understand that I had a meaningful role in the team and that just lit my fire. I understood my role even better. So anyway, so that's my, I guess, story about Anson I want to share because had he not expressed that he cared about me as a player and that he really felt that I contributed to the team, I may have invested my college time doing something else outside of the classroom. Because certainly soccer, you know, was a big time investment, right? Oh, yeah. And so my life would be very different right now if he had kind of let me go. So thank you, Anson.

You're listening to the Vision of a Champion podcast with Anson Dorrance, eight time coach of the year, 22 time national champion coach of the 1991 Women's World Cup Team hall of Famer, leader and mentor to so many in the soccer community. On this podcast, Anson brings on players and coaches to discuss what it means to be a champion. The drive, the passion, the desire, and yes, the stories.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Vision of a Champion podcast. I'm your host, Natalie Boddy, a voice of the ACC Network's digital broadcast for the UNC Women's soccer team. And I've also served as a color analyst for the NC Courage of the nwsl. We have a special episode in store for you guys today as we move on to chapter 17 of the vision of a Champion podcast. And today we get a chance to talk about being a team player. Our special guests today are Raquel Campbell and Jen Zachagnini Beamer. We'll start with Jen. She's a four time national champion and a four time ACC champion that played defense and midfield on Anson's 1990-1993 teams. Jen's proudest achievement outside of her national championships is being selected as the Athletic Director Scholarship recipient for two years running. Raquel Carvelson. Campbell played for the tar heels from 1995 to 1998. Raquel was one of UNC's leading scorers during that time and she was a four time ACC champion and has the distinction of scoring the 2000th goal in UNC women's soccer history. She is considered UNC's top all time reserve player that finished her career with over 100 career points and is a perfect example of what being a team player is all about. Of course, we have Anson Dorrance also on Today's podcast. A 22 time national champion and World cup champion coach, Anson Dorrance has helped so many young female soccer players unlock their potential on and off the field with the greatest college coach of all time. It is truly a delight to talk to both Raquel and Jen about what being a team player means in this Tar Heel program. Anson, before we dive in and get started on the chapter, tell us about both Raquel and Jen and why you chose them to participate in this episode of the Vision of a Champion.

Well, first of all, it would be crazy not to have Raquel on because of her achievements off the bench. And it's not easy to be an elite player and come off the bench. And she was an elite player. She's one of the few reserves that signed a pro contract for us. And so when she finished her collegiate career, she goes from not getting on the field for us as a starter to signing a contract. I think it was with the Philly team. Was that it? Raquel in the wsa?

The Philadelphia Charge.

Yeah, the Philadelphia Charge and the wsa. So her achievements coming off the bench were extraordinary. So here's what she knew. She knew she was a great player and yet she was on our bench. So my admiration for Raquel, to have, you know, basically this positive personality and pro team personality where, you know, most pit players that have this immense talent like she did would, you know, think about transferring immediately or something. And she never did. I mean, she was absolutely wonderful. For me, she was a part of, you know, these great teams and it really takes an extraordinary, noble human being to have these qualities to come off the bench and serve the team and its mission beyond yourself. So for me, that was a no brainer. The thing I loved about Jen, she came to our camps forever. I got to know her really well as a young camper. I genuinely liked her as a person. She came into UNC and she was the model student athlete for me. I mean, she was an incredibly positive human being. She took her academics seriously and like Raquel she was just the model reserve, you know, wasn't this sniveling, whining, you know, creature, you know, that was just insufferable because she wasn't playing. No, she was positive and hard working. And for those reasons, I selected both of them, obviously, one attacking personality, the other one more of a defender. And so I thought bringing them both in, they have balance. And if you read the book, we actually have sections on Raquel because she was extraordinary as a player. And then Jen is here because the chapter actually addresses one of her best friends who, similar to herself, was just an incredibly positive person that didn't get on the field but still supported the team in the mission and then ascended to be one of our captains in her senior year. So for all these different reasons, I thought these would be too extraordinary people. And Jen right now is helping us lead the alumni leadership group. We're reassembling the alumni to bring them back on, basically zoom meetings. And so for all these different reasons, I think I selected wisely.

Raquel, we're going to start with you and just tell us about your fondest memory about Anson and playing at the University of North Carolina.

Wow, that's a loaded question. There are so many memories. I thought about this question and I think I want to just add one little thing in before I go into mainly answering it. Anson rarely would jump on the field with us, and when he. I think we were playing in a 4v4 tournament and he jumped on the field and was playing with us and I got to go head to head with him. It was so much fun and I think I beat him 1v1, but he didn't let me go by easily. He's grabbing, hanging onto the. I think he even fouled me to the ground. Anson, do you remember that? I don't know if you remember that.

I don't remember that, but it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I'm sure, you know, based on how old I was, I'm sure you went blowing by me, so. And by the way, Haas Pinto, who's also on this call, went blowing by me as I got older and pick up noon ball. So you weren't the first that had done that, but I'm sure it's entirely possible.

No, I loved that. That just came back to me because it just showed your competitiveness and your everything that you taught us you were living. And so when I got to play you and go 1v1, it was just, I don't know, it was just a neat moment to get to play against your coach. But my fondest memory at North Carolina, I would have to say, ties into the main topic of this podcast, which is mentality. We were playing in the ACC tournament against Clemson, and the routine for me at that point was I would split the half with the forward at the time, and so she would start, and then I would come in at about 20, 25 minutes left of the game, and we were losing. Now, for, you know, Carolina, to be losing or to be behind was a rare thing. We came in and dominated teams. And so this was a new dynamic for us. And we're in the ACC Championship, and it was very important to be seated well for the national championship. And so I remember going, ok, all right, I got to be ready. Like, we're down a goal. I was starting to mentally prepare, and sure enough, my time came for me to warm up. And I'm looking down the line for Anson to give me the cue, and I didn't get it. And I thought at that moment, ok, I had to really guard my heart and guard my mentality towards what was happening, because it was like clockwork. You know, you get into that routine of going in, and I just. I protected myself from negative thoughts, and I said, okay, okay. Whatever I am given, whatever amount of time I've given, I'm going to give everything. And so I kept looking. I kept looking. The clock was dwindling down, and the ref calls for halftime. We go in. I don't think I remember anything you said during that halftime talk, but I remember just first of all thinking, ok, I know I'm going to get a chance in the second half. I am going to go out there and I am going to leave everything on the field. I am going to try to give whatever I have to boost the team. And sure enough, the whistle starts to.

Start the second half, and Anson looks at me and there's about eight minutes, 10 minutes gone into the second half, and he says, raquel, warm up. And I was like, yes. And I remember running down the sideline and I just said, God, please help me. I want to come in. I want to make an impact. Anson, you know, my faith was something that just carried me through some of the hardest times at unc, but also moments like this where you knew. I just knew I was going to impact that the team. And so I said, ok, God, we need. We need favor. We need a win. You know, use me here. And I get in the field, I get out there, and I think it wasn't like two minutes in. I Get the ball. And I'm driving down and I beat a player and I score and I just look up and I thought, yes. Oh my gosh, this is probably one of my favorite moments in looking back over my career. And then I get the ball again and we have, there is about 15 minutes left of the game and we are tied. One, one. And I'm driving down the wing again. And this time I look up and I see Rebecca McDowell sprinting after she had basically plowed the entire field. That girl never stopped running. And I look over and I'm like, ok, I can take this shot. I know I can make it, but I want to be sure. And I remember thinking, all right, I got to get the ball to Rebecca. And I faked the shot and I laid it across to her and she finishes and we win the game 2 to 1.

And I remember after.

After, when the press wanted me to come into the press box and ask me, why aren't you starting? Like, what? This is crazy. You came in and impacted and you had a game winning assist and a tying goal. And at that moment I had to make a decision because, you know, there were questions. It wasn't always easy. Like Anson said, it wasn't easy, you know, coming in, making an impact, being coined the super sub and not understanding why I never made it into that starting 11. But again, looking back, I know that there are some things outside of your control and that was one of those things. And I had to make a choice with what I was given, how I was going to handle it, how I was going to bring my mentality to the team, how I was going to be helpful and self sacrificing to do what was best for the team. It was interesting because that was a moment when some reporter was asking me, why are you starting? You know, what is the deal? And I just looked at him, I said, you know what? I trust my coach. He knows what is best for the team. Whatever I am given, I am going to give my best. And I don't know, I think I fumbled over some other words of trying to make that point. But I walked away from that thinking, wow, this moment was something I will cherish and take with me forever. Because I could have gotten negative, I could have gotten down on myself and thought, oh well, you know, Anson only puts me in when we are winning, which we usually were, we were always winning. But this was a game that I didn't get to go in. And I thought, okay, I am going to battle some, some challenging thoughts here, but I am Going to protect what I know to be true. And that is what I do have to offer. That is all I can control. And so when I did get that chance to get on the field, I think it was just bittersweet knowing that. Yeah, it Just being able to help the team win, to get us onto the final in the ACC Championship, which we won, I think heartily. I remember.

So you're saying that it was a brilliant decision to not play you in the first half so you would have the energy in the second half to completely take the game over. Is that what you're hearing, Natalie and Jen? That's what I'm hearing, yeah. Raquel, I am with you 100%.

You know, Anson, you definitely. I did. I trusted him. And I think also, just looking back.

It wasn't just about the soccer. It was about developing me as a person. And I feel like God always looks for opportunities to put us in situations where we can choose a negative path or we can choose a positive path. And so sometimes it requires protecting yourself and guarding yourself from that temptation to get negative or to get down on yourself. And so I think mental toughness is critical for any player to work on and to develop. And.

I have to share this because Raquel is probably aware of this, but probably hasn't remembered this. She's a part of our core values because on a particular day, she was obviously really irritated with me for some reason, and she left a note on my desk. And I love the note so much. It is in our core values. And I don't know what I had done, you know, that week to set her off, but I come into my office one day, and this was the stretch. Raquel, when we were, I think, in the trailer down at Finley. I remember that because they're rebuilding our building, and. And there's this note on my desk, and it says, and if people don't much, you know, until they know how much you care. And this is just a wonderful quote that she had found, and I absolutely loved it. And I was thinking, you know what? I guess I'm not paying enough attention to Raquel. So I had to rework, you know, whatever was going on. But it just made so much sense to me. And so now it's actually one of the core values in our program. So I just want Raquel to know that her legacy still stays with me with that note, and her name is in the core values as the one that left the note. So I really appreciate her, I guess, educating and coaching me as well.

Well, just to be Able to play for you and play under that legacy was such a privilege and an honor, and to even be recruited in the first place was surreal for me. And again, just what you developed in me as a player. I used to hate 1v1s. I used to hate. We would do 1v1s to cones. Jen, do you remember those 1v1s to cones. Oh, misery. That brought out the worst in all of us. I remember. I'm not going to mention her name, but I was going to goal. Siri was behind me, and Siri. Siri Mullinix was like, come on, Raquel. We got this. We got this. And I believe Tracy Noonan was in the other goal, and the player that I was going up against was probably one of the most competitive, and I beat her. And it was like, oh, my gosh. Is that okay? You know, I was so nervous. Well, she got so angry at, like, the last couple minutes of the 1v1. She tackles me to the ground, and I could just tell she wanted to attack me. And I thought, oh, 1v1s were torture. But I look back on that, and I am so grateful for you forcing us to be aggressive and to attack players with the ball, basically, to go after whoever was in our way, because I Learned to love 1v1s, and they are now my favorite thing. I play with my son and my kids in the backyard, and I'm like.

Give me the ball.

I'm going to take you on 1v1.

Kayl, you're good at it.

It.

You're good. You can beat people off the dribble. It's one of your best qualities. So I just think that's wonderful that you've adapted to it, because, holy cow, were you good at beating people off the dribble.

Well, I think you just pulled out of me something that I, you know, secretly was just 1v1s. But, Jen, I mean, I know I'm sure, like, answering this question about all the memorable moments that we have had at unc. It's just. It's hard to answer that in one question. And so I'm sure you had a ton of memorable moments.

Yeah. I want to. Sorry not to interrupt you, Raquel. I want to pose that same question to you. What is your. I know it's hard to answer because it's a loaded question. What is your fondest memory about Anson? About the experience at UNC Chapel Hill, Jen.

So if I had to come up with a fondest, I think it was the biggest turning point for me. So I was a Walk on. I was kind of a walk on hybrid because as Anson mentioned, I had been a camper and I had expressed to Anson that I was very interested in playing for the team. If he allowed walk ons, I thought I had a good chance of getting accepted Carolina as a student. And he wrote me this wonderful note that said. And he said it in person as well. By all means, let us know if you get in. We'd love to have you on the team. So I actually came down for recruiting weekend and I was terrified. Oh my gosh, Raquel, were you terrified of Anson when you.

Know him and.

Then say, it's hard to describe how surreal it is. You're like, I can't believe I'm here surrounded by all these incredible athletes.

Exactly, exactly. And I know you're very loving wayance and I know you know that like he's just, you know, the best women's soccer coach. And here I am on a recruiting weekend with Angela Kelly and Mia Hamm and Christine Lillier hosting and it's. I was just blown away. But to answer your question, so my freshman year I show up and I have played in midfield and forward my whole career prior to arriving Carolina. And Anson converts me to defense and anywhere I can help the team and possibly get on the field, yes, I'll play defense. Well, guess what that means I get to defend Mia Ham. Yep, yep. Scrooges every day at practice. And Rita Tower, who's no easier to defend than Mia. And anyways, so I grind out my freshman year I learned so much and I have to say it was very, very hard, of course, and I just wasn't sure, like if I should, if the team wanted me, if the team needed me. And I did get to play some. I got what Anson called quality playing time. I got to travel with the team to away games. It was definitely a meaningful first year, but I just wasn't sure. And so I had that end of season meeting with Anson he has with all of us. And this is my favorite part. This is where it made the. I mean, still, this is like 30 years later, right? It's just made such a huge difference. It was like the sliding door moment. I expressed that I wasn't sure I wanted to carry on with the team. And he expressed back to me how important I was to the team and I wasn't seeing it. I was blown away that he thought that I was important to the team. And the way he expressed that I was important to the team was helping positively with the team chemistry that you Know, I really cared about my teammates. I really cared about the team doing well. I wasn't, you know, first or second off the bench, maybe third or fourth. And anyways, he helped me understand that I had a meaningful role in the team, and that just lit my fire. Like, I understood my role even better. So, anyway, so that's my, I guess, story about ants. And I want to share because had he not expressed that he cared about me as a player and that he really felt that I contributed to the team, I may have invested my college time doing something else outside of the classroom. Because certainly soccer, you know, was a big time investment, right? Oh, yeah. And so my life would be very different right now if he had kind of let me go. So thank you, Anson, because it was pretty amazing to be a part of this program and still, like he was saying about the alumni, like, we have so many incredible connections and community that I would have missed out on. So thank you.

Let's go ahead and get the conversation rolling about Chapter 17 specifically. And Anson, I'll start with you. Can you give our listeners a brief understanding of what the true definition of being a team player is and what it means to you?

Well, this is why I've got Raquel and Jen on this call because they exemplified it for me. And we're talking about two different experiences because Raquel had the talent to start. So her nobility in accepting a lesser role is why I wanted to bring her on. But also I wanted to honor her because in terms of points per minute played, she is number one in our history. And we've had some phenomenal players. And yet in terms of minutes played, Raquel has scored more goals and had more assists than anyone in our history. And, you know, Jen's talking about the kids she had to play against in practice. And she's right. Oh, my gosh. I mean, you know, we're playing starters, reserves, and I'm looking at. And this is back in the day when the front line was Christine Lilly on the left, Rita Tower in the middle, and Mia Hamm on the right. I mean, that is one wicked front line. So Jen's absolutely right. I mean, all right, you know, let's play a little of 11v11. And the reserves are all going, oh, no, not again. And Jen's right about, you know, Rita Tower. I mean, everyone knows Mia Hamm and Christine Lilly, two of the greatest of all time. And I'm not just talking about collegiately, I'm talking about, you know, internationally, two of the greatest of all time. But Rita Tower was a handful. This is a woman that took bodybuilding very seriously. So when you ran into her, it's like hitting a pillar of bricks. I mean, so you didn't like playing any of the three of them, because obviously Mia Hamm and Christine could go through you like a knife through butter. But the problem with Rita is when you collided with her because you're thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, if I just broken something. And then Rita had sort of a mean streak, you know, so when you took a ball from her, you were in deep trouble because she was going to cut you in half. So that whole front line and all the reserves that had to play against it, I mean, it was just sacrificial lambs. So I've got these two for reasons, but the other reason I've got these two is they contributed very positively to team chemistry. That note from Raquel to me was significant because I'm thinking to myself, okay, you know, this is a good note. This is a, you know, I've got to be better moment for me, which is why I included it. And the other thing about Raquel is she was very spiritual, and I respect people that are spiritual, but I also know the language. So I love teasing Raquel with spiritual words. Like, we used to talk about, you know, agape. Agape is Christian love. And I used to say, you know, Raquel, I reject agape. I don't want to have agape from you. I don't want you to love me because you're a Christian. So I would, you know, because I'm trained. I went to Catholic schools my whole life. I understand all the vocabulary, vocabulary of spiritual people. So I enjoyed using that vocabulary to tease Raquel to death. And then Jen was so sweet. I really wanted to keep her. I wanted to keep her because she made everyone around them so much better as people, the way she treated everyone. And that's what I wanted. I wanted a team of people that connected with each other and connected deeply. So for me, these two were clear choices. For me, for all the right reasons, because of who they were. So that's why they're with us right now. Now. Then, of course, they agreed to jump in. So there we have it.

And we're going to go again with the same question for you both. Raquel, I'll give it to you first. Jen, you can answer immediately following after. But, Raquel, can you share with our listeners some of those things you did that made you a great team player? And you mentioned your mentality in those moments. What's Kind of the backstory behind that and the principles you held.

Listen, you know, it's hard to describe what Jen is talking about, the distinction between reserves and starters. And for me, it didn't take long to realize that the goal was to become a starter. With that came clout, came recognition, came instant credibility. You were just the best of the best. Now, Anson, you mentioned that, you know, I accepted my role as the reserve. Well, to be honest, I never truly did. And that is what kept driving me to go after trying to become a starter. And a lot of times we had walk ons that would come and with it came incredible character and integrity, which I think was a great balance to the team. Because when you have the ruthless, competitive, almost self driven mentality of the athlete and you've got these women that come in that are walk ons, that have deep roots in, in integrity and character, the balance that that created for our team was astounding. And for me, being a Christian, seeing those qualities in those characters like Eugen, like Mandy Morrison and Erica Dempsey, those girls, you know, Julia Marslander, you know, Liz's sister, seeing what they brought to the team was just as valuable. And I think that's part of what my note was all about, was, listen, we need to know you care too. And Anson, I'm just honored to hear you describe your perspective of me being in your eyes, that, that talented because it's just, it's wonderful to hear. And a lot of times I think, Jen, what you were saying, needing to hear that reinforcement, needing to hear your value, needing to hear how much you're cared for, was, was the main message behind my note. And I want to share. I know exactly why I sent you that note in a passive aggressive way. I dropped it off on your desk and I was out of there before you could see who dropped it. But I'm pretty sure you figured out who was responsible. But I'm not sure if you remember this, Anson, but again, back to the 4v4 tournaments that you would host for us, which was fun. It was just a fun breakup from our routine.

You normally would split players. You would take, you know, one of the best forwards with one of the best midfielders, a defender, and then you'd throw in a reserve with them and then maybe a walk on and then we would all be paired up. Well, this particular training session, you decided to change it up and you said all the forwards get together and you put all the forwards together. I think I was standing somewhere to the left.

You know, and you, you kind of just pieced the best forwards with the two, you know, players that came off the bench. And then you, that was one team. And then the midfielders, you did the same thing and you did the same thing with the defenders. And then I looked around and it was me, Erica Dempsey, Mandy Morrison, I think Tina Murphy, who had red shirted and who was, you know, coming off of injury, you know, recovering. I don't remember who else was with us. I don't know if Liz was there yet, but I just looked around and all of us looked at each other like we're all on one team.

Do you remember this? Do you remember this, this training session?

I know what you're talking about because I would always see which of my groups was the strongest. So yeah, every now and then I'll put the starting defenders together, starting midfielders, starting strikers. And then of course, because you've taken all the starters out, then the other teams obviously are not going to have the star power, those three teams. So you are describing something I do regularly, so you are absolutely correct.

So you looked at me, Anton, and you said, ok, Raquel, do you want to be a goal up or do you want your goals to count for two? And I just looked at you and I was like, we don't need either. We are going to be just fine.

And I gathered these girls to me and Erica and Mandy were both in a Bible study that I was doing. And so I kind of had a little more leeway to, to say what I said next. I looked at them and I said, you are going to play better than you've ever played in your life. Do you hear me? Like I knew what we were up against and I was like, I was willing at that point to sacrifice myself defensively, mind you, which I think this was a brilliant thing you did looking back.

And I said, we are not going to lose. Do you understand? And they just looked at me with these big eyes and. And I remember watching my fellow walk ons and the reserve, I think it was Tina Murphy with me. I watched them play better soccer than I think they'll ever play again in their life. Because when we played against Cindy Parlow, Meredith Florence, I think it was Raven McDonald. I mean these were powerhouse, world renowned players. We beat them. I don't know how. I think there was some prayer involved, but we ended up beating the forwards and I was so angry. I think I played offense, midfield and defense. I think it's probably the only time you'll see me play the best defense of my life. Well, then we had to Play the midfielders. And I think it was a tie. I think it was like we had to go into overtime or you tossed a coin and we ended up winning. And I was like, oh, my gosh, yes. I just felt more fuel, more energy. And of course, we had to end with playing the defense. And that was Nel Fetig and Stacy Wilson. And gosh, you know, it was. You can't beat a defense, no matter how talented you are. As an offense, defense, they're solid. Their foundation, that is hard to break through. Well, we. We were tied, and I think I was driving down the wing. I felt like I got fouled. It's questionable. I don't know, but I was taken down. They repossessed the ball, drove down the field and scored. And I was so mad because, again, I had made a decision that I was going to. We were going to. We were going to be validated, we were going to be seen. We were going to be contenders in this unfair fight, you know, David versus Goliath, in my mind. But I thought, okay, we could do this. Nothing is impossible.

And then you wrote the notes. So that was it.

Yeah. Well, it is almost done. I remember being called into the huddle. I was, like, on the verge of tears. I was so hurt because I felt like I should have gotten a free kick.

And sure enough, the girl started walking back towards the hut, and I just walked in the other direction and I just. I think all of it just came up and I just. I started crying. And Stacy Wilson came over and put her arm around my shoulder, and she's like, raquel, keep fighting, keep fighting. You got this. And that little ounce of. Of, you know, Stacy reaching out, which everyone knows, Stacey was like Rita Tower. She was one big muscle and very tough. And for her to come and to.

Offer that encouragement was like water in a thirsty land. And so it just. It fueled me. And I went home and I prayed and, you know, had a really good quiet time and got refocused. And I just said, ok, I trust you. Whatever is happening, I trust you. I trust you to work whatever you need to work out in me. Mental toughness, perseverance. And that next day, I showed up with that note. And I think for me, the turning point was, you know what? I have to believe that I am good enough. Whether I ever make it into the starting 11, I have to make that decision that I am good enough. And it was at that point that I thought, okay, if the girls that I was with, if we managed to beat the best forwards in the world, in my opinion at that time, the best midfielders, you know, it was like, okay, we can do this. There's nothing you can accomplish when you put your mind to it and you have the right mindset. So I think at that point I said, yeah, I will give myself fully to this team and give whatever I'm given in terms of time on the field. And I didn't question it after that. I said, okay, God's going to.

Isn't that interesting, Raquel? The defenders always win, right, Jen? Those defenders.

You put the defenders on a team of 4v4 and they win. They always win exactly the mid. You would think the midfielders might or occasionally the forwards, but yeah, Jen, it's always the defenders.

You, you did something for me that day that I didn't realize. You, you helped me to tap into the one area that you wanted me to improve on, which is my defensive game. And I think I played more defense. I think I've been slide tackled, which, which says a lot for me. So, so.

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This is Dean Linke. I hope you've been enjoying the podcast and I wanted to make you aware that Anson just released a new audiobook version of his hardcover book, the Vision of a Champion. Now you can listen to the book, narrated by Anson Dorrance, and switch back to the free podcast to hear the stars of the women's game discuss each chapter. The Vision of a Champion audiobook is available on Apple Books, Amazon's, Audible, Google Play, or wherever you get your audiobooks. To find it, simply search the Vision of a Champion audiobook. Now let's get back to the show.

Jen, I want to ask you that same question. I mean, four time national champion, obviously you were part of some great teams. How did you be a great team player for all of those elite teams?

Oh my gosh, this is such a wonderful reminisce you guys. I was so, so lucky and I'm so grateful that I was on the team when I showed up in 1990. And Anson's talked about the roster that he had at the time in my four year career, which I will say had nothing to do with me. We had lost only one game.

We won.

We didn't even tie another game after we lost to UConn in 1990. It was such an unbelievable.

Experience. But Raquel, I so enjoy your reminisce on those moments on the field. Like, my.

Most vivid memories are off the field, so it's so cool. You know, the difference is, obviously you had a lot more time on the field than I did. But like I said, after that freshman year, when I'm like fully committed to being a part and a meaningful part of this team, I thought about, you know, what can I control? Because I'm never going to be as good as, you know, our starting defense at that time, you know, who did we have? Lou Ellen Poor in the back, Stacey Blazo. We had just Linda Hamilton. I mean, just amazing, amazing national team players. So what I could control was my fitness. So I tried, I said, you know, try to be able to keep up with Mia.

So I tried to come in super fit every season and then obviously to have good grades because Anson always, of course talked with us about how important it is for us to be good student athletes and the other thing, having a positive attitude. But one of the unique things that I did. So I think it was really wonderful how we were all.

Just encouraged to be ourselves. And boy, Anson, did we have some characters on the team. When I was there, I think I was voted most normal.

Do you remember my era? I know you've had so many.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're. You were one of the few normal ones during that stretch. You're absolutely right. Was it a pleasure having you, a normal human being, on that roster of just unbelievable athletic freaks? And then these just, you know, way out their personality. So. Jen, you're absolutely right.

And they wonderful. I mean, they brought more out of me. Like, I loved, you know, meeting all these new personalities like you guys have talked about. I grew up in 12 years of Catholic school, and so it was, you know, uniforms and pretty straight laced. So I was like, whoa, this is a whole new world. But one of the things getting back to that I brought that was unique to me and a passion that I had off the field was photography. And so all my teammates will probably giggle if they hear this because I always had my camera with me. So I was always taking pictures off the field. Selfies and before they were cool. And then at the end of the season, when we had our end of the season teen party.

This is exposing how long ago it was I did a slideshow. Do you guys remember what slides are? So the images, right, that I had taken throughout the season, I had developed them into slides and organized them to be a photo collage to music that I would share during our end of the season party as sort of a recap of the season to meaningful music. Music depending on, you know, where it was in the. In the photos that I was sharing. So that was. And these are like archives I have now. So periodically I'll pull one out of the archive and shoot it over to somebody that, you know, a photo of them that off the field that they've never seen. And it's kind of fun to reminisce on, you know, just different memories we were making, you know, on Franklin street together, on the bus, at restaurants, just, you know, the enjoying, you know, our community off the field was really so enriching. And it still is because Anson's done such a great job of always welcoming us back. Right where Kelly's. Every time you see him, he's always like, come on back. You know, having the reunions every couple years. And now the elevated engagement with the alumni is Heather O'Reilly is doing such a great job of, you know, really rallying the troops to be even more engaged. So anyways, long answer to the. To the question. But that's great, though.

If it's okay, I would love to just talk about the value of that, like, and that's kind of what I was alluding to earlier with just what you guys would bring to the team. I just remember that Liz, you know, she was like a mother goose for all of us. You know, she just had that mothering nature. And I remember just going and talking to her and she would just listen. And being a part of the team, you have to, like, Anson says you understand your role. And I think that it's invaluable what some of the walk ons and the reserves were able to contribute. Because a lot of times, you know, when you're faced with not seeing that constant reinforcement or that affirmation that you need, it's not an easy environment. I mean, who are we kidding? I mean, you're going up against some of the most competitive, you know, alphas that are out there when it comes to soccer. And that environment is challenging, and it's not always easy. And you see a lot of the emotions and the personalities that clash. But you're right, a lot of the off the field relationships, like, I remember just being there for one another because we all went through all kinds of things, you know, boyfriend issues and you know, just, you know, oh, I didn't get, yeah, I didn't get this trophy or you know, like whatever the situation was, we were there for each other. And at the end of the day, I think that that having cultivated that was hugely a result of the reserves and a lot of walk ons that came that just knew how to bring people together and ground some of the uber ultra competitiveness in, in most of us.

So let me share my Liz Marslander story because it's my absolute favorite. I call it the most celebr goal and UNC women's soccer history because she was so loved. And here's what it was. I think it was an NCAA game. I think it was rather deep in the NCAA tournament, but we were up a bit. So of course when we get up a bit, you know, I'm trying to clear the, the bench so that everyone gets into the game. So Liz, who I think by this time was our captain and I don't know if Jen, you were still there. Please tell me whether or not you were because this is so vivid in my memory. But near the end of the game, Marcelander scores a goal. And it was so close to the end of the game that everyone was so overjoyed. When the game ended, the whole team went spinning out there to celebrate with Liz Marslander. And Vanessa Rubio had injured herself. I think she torn ACL from earlier in the year. And all of a sudden she, along with everyone else is trying to get out there to celebrate with Liz. But of course Rubio is on crutches, so she gets to the pylon late. So there's this just pile of bodies on top of Marcelin, you know, celebrating her because everyone absolutely loved her. And so Rubio, who of course is the last one out there because she's on these crutches, hobbling, hobbling out there in these crutches. And then she gets to the pile and she throws her crutches to the left and right and starts to dive on the pile. And what happened is all of you guys saw her coming and you didn't want her landing on you, so the pile separated. So Rubio hits the ground and re injures the knee he had torn her ACL with. And so it was one of these tragic comic moments when, you know, she's in pain because she's just, you know, re injuring by diving. But, you know, we're all laughing because it was so hilarious. But that gets to the nature of what you guys are talking about. The nature of. Yeah, she was loved. Liz Marslander was absolutely loved because of the sort of human being that she was. And the other thing that I absolutely love, and obviously it's so important for us right now as well, we honor the people that are these paragons of nobility and virtue and character. So much so that, as you guys know now, I mean, everything for us is about character. It's about that sort of development, because long term, you're not going to play your professional career forever, and you're not gonna play like Raquel. How many years were you on the national team for Iceland? You played for them for a while, but it's not gonna be forever. You're gonna have a life after that. So what's most important is who you are. And so for me, that's also a part of this chapter, was people like Liz and Anson.

I want to ask you about Player Persona, which is mentioned so much in this chapter and what that really means and kind of the breakdown of the different Personas that you need to make up a great team.

Well, thank you. Well, obviously, and I really appreciate how well Raquel and Jen touched on this. You need a whole blend of all kinds of personalities. Yeah. You need those wild cowboy alphas that, you know, want to rip your throat out in the middle of a 1v1, which Raquel was referring to. And I love the fact that Raquel won't mention the name of the girl that wanted to tear her, because I love her.

Yeah.

You know, she's protecting her, but, yeah, this is the sort of girl that would not only beat you, you know, 10, 0 in the 1v1, but then she would pour kerosene on top of you and then light. Light you up so you're not burning to death, you know, right after she's completely humiliated you in the 1v1.

Oh, my God. I'm totally hitting you up on the chat to find out who that was.

Well, yeah. No, absolutely. But, you know, I think I know who it is, but I'm like, Raquel, I'm not going to expose anyone. But, you know, I love all this because those are the people that are part of helping you win, clearly, these competitive women. And the other thing is, in our environment, as you guys know, we protected them. Because in a lot of environments, if you're that way, you're excoriated. And you know what? No, no. Why are men put on these pedestals when they're competitive? And why are women excoriated for Being the same thing. So we wanted to create a culture where that sort of woman is elevated and protected and respected. But obviously, you can't have, you know, 30 of those people because all of a sudden, you know, the bus is going to burn down on the way to a game. So what you need is you need a blend of all these different kinds of people. And so this is where, you know, this chapter for me was such an important part of the book, because we wanted a whole range of personalities. And Jen is right. Holy cow. Your teams, back in those days, you know, when I got a call at 4am I was thinking, oh, no, you know, it could be any of, you know, 15 people, you know, yes, officer, you know, I'm sorry. You know, they burned that fraternity house to the ground. Yeah. I tell them that, you know, you know, matches that, you know, that's just not. That they shouldn't play with fire, you know, I'm sorry, sir, but, you know, you know, I'll bail her out of, you know, the jail cell right now. But these are also the women that take huge physical risks. These are the women that are incredibly brave. These are the women that 50, 50 ball in the box and the goalkeeper's about to punch them in the head. They stick their head in there and finish it. They are brave, aggressive women, and I loved having them on my roster. And then do I love the normal ones like Jen Zachagini? Yes. Holy cow. Was it a pleasure dealing with someone that, you know, had everything in order? I mean, I never went to her room when she was an undergraduate. But here's what I imagine. If you went to her desk, all of her pencils would be lined up. You know, she would have all of her books in a row, you know, with, you know, bookmarks about where she was at each chapter. I mean, and then, of course, the bed would probably be made, I mean, and all these different things. And so, yeah, we needed a whole range of these people because that's what community is. Community is accepting everyone for whatever they care to bring. And I love every year of my life with these different teams. And I've got one right now. We've got all kinds of kids on our current roster. And do we have some normal ones? Yeah, Jen, we do. Do we have some that, you know, would light you on fire, Raquel, after they beat you to death in a 1v1? Yes, we have those as well. And I love having all of them on my teams.

Anson, before we wrap, I want to ask you, you mentioned that delicate balance between praise and criticism and how it kind of ties into female players and what to do in public versus private. So what advice would you give to other coaches discerning when to praise and when to criticize and where to do it?

Well, obviously, they have to feel protected and safe within your environment. So obviously, trust is the most critical leadership quality. It's a critical quality in coaching. Your players have to trust your judgment. So they have to trust that, you know, there's no ulterior motive for why someone's playing in front of you or more minutes than you were playing. And so that trust has to be won. The way you win that trust is the way you treat the people outside of the competitive environment. They have to know that you respect them. And oftentimes they would rather be respected and admired for reasons beyond the game. Because clearly the girls that are scoring goal after goal after goal for you are going to be respected. But believe it or not, they don't need a word from you. They know in their world, with the media behind them and basically the glory behind them, they're fine. The ones that need more of a connection and an affirmation. The ones that don't play maximum minute, that are serving the team and its mission. And so those are the ones that need to know that, yeah, like what Jen was saying when you pull them aside after the season, and, yeah, they're wondering whether or not they have any value for you because they're not playing maximum minutes. They got to know that they have value well beyond the playing time minutes of the other young women on the roster. And so that's when you tell them, you know, what they mean to you. And now you're telling them, you know, things basically beyond the game. And I can't remember if back then, Jen, I actually told you in that first meeting, by the way, Jen, you're the only normal one on my roster. Would you please stick around? Because maybe, maybe what I gathered, you know, by the time she graduated is she was, you know, clearly, you know, just.

Absolutely normal in a positive way. Now, does this mean I am disparaging any of those other wild hairs on the roster? No. You know, as Raquel was saying, oh, my gosh, in these critical matches, you need the alphas. You need the ones that, you know will take any sort of physical risk to win a game, but you still want a real community, and that is made up of all kinds of people that are totally different and you love them all for different reasons. And I'll tell you, as a result of I'm still coaching. I'm approaching 70 and I'm still coaching. And why? Because I love all these different kinds of players and it takes all these different personalities to make my life interesting, at least. First of all, Raquel and Jen, I love having you guys back on the show. You're bringing back such extraordinary memories for me about all the different personalities and all the great teams we've had. So thank you.

Thank you so much for having me. It was great to reminisce and just get to share and revel in some of those wonderful memories.

Ditto. Ditto. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to have been chosen to be a part of this. Thank you so much.

That wraps up episode 17 with Raquel Carvelson Campbell and Jen Zacchagnini Beamer, both National Champions for the Tar Heels. If you like this show, one way you can support our work is to subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review as well. This show was edited and produced by Creative Allies. If you're looking for information on full service podcast production, head on over to creative allies.com I'm Natalie Boddy and we'll see you next time on the Vision of a Champion Podcast.

Hey everyone, I hope you like this episode and I just want to thank all of the people involved in making this happen and all of our sponsors including attafootball.com in addition to Spotify, Apple Podcasts and all the usual podcast apps. You can listen to the show on addafootball.com which is a new women's soccer community that is helping elevate the sport through sharing some of the top women's matches, highlights and athletes from around the world. ADA is enabling women's football to shine its brightest now and for generations of young female footballers to come. So visit attafootball.com to learn more.

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