John Wineland - The Art Of Masculine Leadership

Foreign.

Welcome guys and gals to the Man Talks Podcast. I'm Connor Beaton, the host and founder of Man Talks. This podcast brings together the best thought leaders, teachers and extraordinary individuals to teach and mentor you on how to be a top performer in life, love and business. Imagine having experienced mentors with decades of wisdom delivered right to your ears. On this podcast we'll talk about things like purpose, legacy, love, influence, sex, success, wealth and so much more. Don't forget to leave us a review. If you've enjoyed what you heard, subscribe and join the other thousands and thousands.

Of change makers in our community on.

Facebook or go to www.mantox.com for more blog posts, podcasts and videos from our live event.

Joining me today on the podcast is a gentleman by the name of John.

Wineland and for the better part of.

The last decade he has been an LA based speaker, teacher and workshop facilitator who has been guiding men and women in the realms of life purpose, sexual intimacy and embodiment. He's known for his groundbreaking work with men and for the past decade has traveled worldwide teaching his vision of embodied men's work and deep relational practice. John's Embodiment has driven teaching and draws from not only 30 years of experience of his own Buddhist meditative practice, but from the deep lineages of things like Tantra, Kundalini, Yoga, and as well as Taoist traditions of iron shirt Qigong. So we dive into some pretty interesting topics. We dive into sex, we dive into intimacy, we dive into communication within the realm of relationships. And, and John talks about what he refers to as the Art of Masculine Leadership, which is going to be a book that he's releasing later on this year. It's an incredible, incredible podcast. John has been leading this type of work for an extremely long time and has a little bit more of a spiritual take than maybe some of our past guests like Robert Masters, but nonetheless, some incredible, incredible insight on how to connect with your partner, how to bridge the gap in in communication. And he shares some really tangible and tactical exercises that you can try within your relationship to not only deepen intimacy, but to improve communication and connection. So without any further ado, I would love to bring in Mr. John Weiland. John, thank you so much for joining me on the Man Talks podcast.

Yeah, so glad to be here, Connor, Nice to finally meet you.

Likewise. Likewise. I've been following you and your work and your journey for quite a while now, probably 15 or 16 months now. I've kind of been seeing your work in the background and building up the mantalks platform so that I could reach out and have you on here. So it's an honor to have you on here.

Thank you. It's an honor to be here, my friend.

So I'm going to start, as I normally do, just by asking the question that all of our guests receive in the very beginning, which is, can you share with our listeners a defining moment for you in your life that's made you who you are today?

Yeah. When you told me about that question a minute ago, I was like, okay. Like, something just popped into my head. And it's. It's one that I've. In the talks that I do has been coming to me, and so I think it's appropriate for this. And I was in my mid-30s and married with a daughter and had great job, a little house in Westwood, beautiful wife. And I really thought that I was a good husband. Like, I was a good provider, and I supported her and her career, and I was a good father. And yet, you know, five years into our marriage, it was clear that I didn't have a fucking clue as to how to make her happy. And this wasn't the first time that that had happened in a relationship. So I.

It got really bad. And I remember at one point literally thinking, I need to get help. And so I jumped on a plane, almost spur of the moment, flew to the east coast to meet with a man who I was told could really help enlighten me on how to deal with these issues of relationship and how to show up and speak woman, so to speak. And I went and did that and had completely transformational weekend and came back. And on the way back, I remember making a list of all the places where I had let her down. Like, all the places where I had abdicated leadership in the relationship, where I had not taken care of her sexually, where I had left her alone, where I had worked because it was easier to work than to deal with being intimate and what comes up when you fight. Just all the places where I had took a really, really deep inventory of who I was as a leader in my relationship. And I came back and I. I sat her down, and we had. We'd barely been talking. We'd barely been having sex, and I sat her down, and we, you know, I just said, here's where I've let you down. Here's. You know, I want to take full responsibility. And it's the first time in my life where that just hit me. Like, the culture and the relationship is completely my responsibility. And I sat down And I had that conversation and, you know, she started crying, I started crying. I just went through all of these areas that I felt like I had not shown up, having new information on what showing up really means, what it means to be present as a man, what it means to ravish a woman's heart, what it means to, you know, be open and all of those things. And so I had that conversation with her and it was, you know, turned out to be a really beautiful opening for us. And although we didn't, we didn't stay together as a couple, I know I left that relationship completely clean. And knowing that I had brought the very best that I could. And it was that moment that really shifted me. Like, you know, I knew that I was on the path that I would follow for the rest of my life. And that was, you know, ten plus years ago now. And now I teach this stuff and try to live this stuff as best as I can and bring it to my relationship. And that was the moment, though, when I finally, like, it hit me like a lightning bolt that I'm responsible for this. I'm responsible for the relationship and I'm responsible for the culture in the relationship, no matter what she does. And it was such an empowering moment. It was such a. Such a life changing thing. I'll never forget it. And I've taken guys that I work with through that sort of inventory process and where they go and have those kinds of conversations, and almost every single one of them has that same experience. So I'm just so grateful that I had that and had got to live that.

It's beautiful, man. I think that's. I think that's incredible because I think, you know, I have yet to meet a man who isn't interested and isn't driven by being, you know, successful in his relationship, regardless of the relationship dynamic, you know, whether he's monogamous, whether he's polyamorous, whether he's in an open relationship, you know, straight, you know, homosexual.

Doesn't.

It doesn't matter. All men are committed to being, being successful in the relationships. And I wanted to kind of back up and just to sort of touch something and maybe unpack it a little bit. You mentioned abdicating leadership in your relationship, and I think that that is. It's something that is extremely important to sort of unpack and discuss. So can you just unravel that a little bit? How is that showing up in your relationship or how do you see it showing up in men's relationships and the impact that it has?

Yeah, well, it's a, it's such a tricky wick because women are so competent and, you know, part of the post feminist landscape now is that women can do things better than we can. They really don't even need us to have children. And so we're in the, we're in a time in history where it's the first time in modern history or what maybe history ever, where we actually don't need each other. We don't need each other for the same things that we used to. I would actually argue men need women more now than, you know, a hundred years ago, 200 years ago, 300 years ago, women needed men for security and to provide. And that's just not necessary now. So now we're left with this at this time when why would we want to be together in the first place? And what is valuable, what's valuable as a masculine partner to bring to a relationship for a feminine partner that, you know, can have her own baby, probably make more money, you know what I mean? All these things are happening now. So leadership has, has changed this definition of what it means to be masculine leader. And this is the book I'm writing, you know, the Art of Masculine Leadership. Because this has been my journey, but it's changed now, and it's really more about how can I lead her someplace that she can't lead herself. And when I say her, I mean the feminine could be in a homosexual relationship. It could be the feminine in all of us wants to be led, including my feminine. Your feminine, where all our feminines want to be led. Well, you know, my partner's got a strong masculine capacity in their times. Especially after I teach, where I'm like, baby, I don't know what to do. Just like come over and tell me, you know, tell me what to eat. If, you know, put me in the shower. Like, just tell me what to do.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I think that this idea of leadership as a master, who's ever playing the masculine partner? Right. Whoever man does, man or woman, doesn't matter anymore. It's more about who's wants to. Who was playing the masculine in the relationship. There's idea of I can, I want to take you someplace you can't take yourself sexually, emotionally, spiritually. And if I can do that in a moment or over the course of many, many moments, then I'm really valuable to my partner. I'm really giving her something. And like you mentioned, I'll feel like I'm with winning. It's a real high that men get when they can lead the person they love someplace that they couldn't have gone themselves, and they can feel that it opened. Their partner, a guy's just beam. I just got an email this morning. That's amazing. And he had that same experience of taking her someplace she wouldn't have gone herself. And he was so excited about it. So there's a lot more to it. But I think for just a, you know, to give it a simple definition, I would define masculine leadership as the partner, one, one partner who's ever playing the masculine in the relationship, taking the feminine partner someplace that she couldn't go herself, whether it's in a moment or in life.

Yeah, yeah. No, I think, I think that that's a, that's a great definition. And, and I think you described it in such a way that it really makes it clear why it's necessary. You know, I'm curious as to your perspective on what you see, because you work, you know, just like I do, you work with a lot of men, specifically on clearing some of their blocks and some of the things that get in the way from them to be able to do this. You have this type of relationship dynamic, right. And have this type of leadership. So from your purview, from your perspective, what have you seen as some of the common, some of the common factors that get in the way or block men from being able to step into this space of powerful leadership?

That's a great question. And it's a pretty long list.

Maybe just a few of them.

Yeah, yeah.

It starts with being able to lead yourself. Right. Like, so the first, the most important thing is your relationship as a man. My relationship to myself, my relationship to my life, the life that I'm creating, because obviously if I can't create a life that I'm inspired by, it's not going to inspire a really quality, beautiful woman or partner to come to me. So first, leadership is obviously self leadership. Secondly, I think the area of being able to lead, included in that kind of separate is this idea of being able to lead your own emotion. So I think a place where a lot of guys get tripped up is they can't. They don't know what to do with their own emotionality, jealousy or anger or fear of rejection or self loathing. And they just haven't cultivated the nervous system capacity and the emotional awareness, which are meditative and yogic practices to really deal with that. And then, you know, childhood programming, a lot of us in our generation, and you're a little younger than me, but a lot of us in Our generation, and it's growing up in the 70s and 80s, we may not have had masculine leadership taught to us from a, you know, from a deep place or a trustable place. And so we just. We don't know. Like, I'm supposed to be a nice guy, right? Isn't that the way I lead? Like, I'm nice to her. I kind of abdicate. I kind of don't, you know.

I don't cause a bunch of shit. I kind of let her do what she's gonna do. I give her space when she's mad at me, like, you know, that kind of paradigm. So I think we just didn't know. I think all guys, like you said, want to lead powerfully. And the problem is that most of us have not been taught how to lead powerfully. So I've had to learn myself with my teachers. I imagine you had a similar journey.

And so those are the big ones. There's some other ones there, but those are the big three.

Nice.

Okay, well, and let's dive in a little bit to leading your emotions, because for me, you know, like, I've had the opportunity to, just because of the work with mantalks, travel around North America. And it's interesting, I think I had this perspective before I went into the work, that there would be different issues depending on the geographics of things, you know, and really what it comes down to is people struggle emotionally with a lot of the same things. So what are some of the keys, from your perspective around leading, leading ourselves emotionally? Because I see a lot of men wanting to not only convey a sense of strength and powerfulness and groundedness and centeredness, they want to convey that, but they're not really too sure sometimes how to actually go about embodying that. And so I'm wondering if you can unpack what it's like to lead your emotions and how maybe tactically. Some of the people listening on the podcast can do that. Sure.

No, and that's. I guess that's an area of leadership that I didn't mention, which is your own physicality. Right. I mean, how do you. It all starts, in my opinion, with nervous system strength. Like, if my nervous system isn't strong enough because I've used it, I've tuned it using meditation breath, you know, qigong, you know, any kind of opening, strengthening exercise. If my nervous system can't handle the feminine energy of my emotion, it's certainly not going to be able to handle the feminine energy of her emotions or her sex or her deepest, darkest sexual energy. Right. So there. Men need incentive. You know, there it is. So it starts with nervous system strength. I'm a big fan of things like kundalini, yoga, Qigong, a lot of breath work, a lot of meditation. Because emotional intelligence, I don't know, you know, I'm not sure my definition exactly the same. But emotional intelligence really starts with awareness and nervous system capacity. If I'm aware, if I've cultivated enough of my own masculine essence that I can be the witness and. And be aware of. Oh, that you're afraid. How you're afraid she doesn't want to be with you right now, or you're afraid that, you know, she's, you know, mad at you, or you're afraid she's going to leave. That awareness capacity literally is a full body nervous system training. And I don't think guys realize that you can actually learn to cultivate that capacity in your nervous system, in your body mind. So I think breath is one of the keys. Huge breath guy. I think I teach as much. I'm constantly on the hunt for new breath exercises because I think that's so key and really developing some kind of meditative practice, it doesn't matter what it is, can be anything from Osho to vipassana meditation. But anything that helps you still your mind and through breath brings you from where men normally live up here down into their belly, which is where women really want to feel us, where the feminine really wants to feel us. So those are a few sort of practical tips I had. Somebody asked me on a podcast a while ago, like, what would you give? What three suggestions would you give to a guy who wants to be more in his masculine. I said breathe into his. Breathe into his belly, his genitals and his thighs, like really get in the lower body. And everybody around you will feel you more masculine, they'll feel you more still, they'll feel you more grounded, and they'll respond to that and they'll trust you more, they want to give you more money, they'll want to sleep with you. You know what I mean? They'll trust you with, you know, with things that are important because they'll feel you.

They'll feel weight.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because what that's almost how I hear a lot of people describe a grounded man, you know, is that there's. There's almost this deeper sense of presence and. Yeah, you know, we, I think when we. When we think about a man who is very scattered.

Not present and not impactful in the way that he wants to be he's often living from this space of analysis and really living in this heady space, you know, in this rash, you know, living in his head. And the breath is so, so, so important. And that's why oftentimes you see a lot of male singers who have that attraction because they're breed. They have to. It's almost like the forced. Right. They're forced to breathe deeper into that deeper space, which cultivates that presence that people feel.

Yeah. Well, have you ever seen Nine Inch Nails concert?

Yeah.

You see Trent Renser, not only is he like in his lower body, like the dude is crouched the whole time and he is owning it. I don't think I've ever like, he's the guy I'd point to. I'd say, go watch some videos with Trent in concert because he's. His legs are. He's in a crouch, he's breathing deep. You know, the words are coming from that, from his lower belly, his Dantian. Right. His power source. And everybody feels it. And that's that if all guys, if all that, you know, man gets is, hey, breathe into my belly, then I'll be happy. Because that's a, that's a life changing realization.

Yeah, I like it. And so we're kind of on this topic right now of masculine presence. And I want to talk about that a little bit more and then shift into this, this concept of intimacy, how to deepen that, maybe touch on presence a little bit and talk about spirituality in the context of relationships, especially because that's something that you really bring to the table. But let's talk about this idea before we move on of masculine presence and how that shows up. Because I think for a lot of people that's a very analogous thing, right? It's like, what is masculine presence? How. And you kind of touched on it before. And for me, it's that mind, body, spirit aspect of things, this sort of trifecta.

How can a man identify that if he has not really experienced the workshop or read the books or anything like that? How can he start to identify that masculine presence out in the real world for himself?

Whether he's feeling it or somebody else.

Is feeling it, whether he's feeling it in himself and how to identify it in other people?

Hmm. So one of the first things you'll notice is that there's relaxation, right? So, you know, masculine presence at his essence. And you know, this is David Data101, but I really agree with him in this is that, you know, the masculine in all of us is the part of us that's never changed. Like, you know that. Which same for you was. You were, you know, now is when you were five, you know, the part of you that's the oldest, deepest part. And so the more that a man is identified and can feel that part of him, literally feel it in his body, feel the part of him that is infinite, endless, ageless, the more present he feels to the people around him. Because he's not, like you said, caught up in the monkey mind of me. What do I get? How do I get more of her? How do I get more money? How do I get my next win? It's more of a feeling of, he feels wide. He feels wide. And we all know these guys who walk into a room and you just feel them. And the way I always see it is he feels like he's wider than his body. And that's because his awareness is not on his mind. His awareness is on something bigger than his mind. And so a present man usually is more still.

Usually is lower in his body, usually has a deep connection to his breath, and usually feels, you know, what I would call the divine consciousness.

He's got one foot in consciousness at all times. Even if he's working out or he's having sex, he doesn't forget. That's the core. And that kind of ties into the spiritual intimacy. Because the masculine part of spiritual intimacy is to cultivate that part of ourselves. And the more we do, the less disturbed we are by life's storms, you know, and the feminine storms and not getting what we want or getting what we want and not knowing what to do with it, getting what we want and having it still not be enough. I mean, all of that shit, you know, masculine has to deal with. So I would say if a man feels still closer to stillness, he's going to feel more present in himself. So if a guy watching this can just breathe into his belly and still his body, he will feel more present in himself. And then if he does that on his own for a while, he'll then be able to bring that out and actually have a conversation where some of that is present. And he'll feel more present, feel more grounded. I always say, just put your hand on your belly. Like, I work with some guys who are actors before they go on stage or on the scene, I'm like, just take 10 breaths, take your palm, put it under your belly, and just breathe 10 times into your hand and you'll feel more present. And, you know, you do that ten times a day, five times a day, that's a pretty beautiful reminder.

Yeah, absolutely. I love that practice. It's interesting because I come from a background in opera, and so I had so many breathing practices that always tuned me into the body. Body and would inevitably get me out of the head.

Right.

And even. Even in that practice, that sort of artistic practice can be very. You can get very neurotic about it.

Right.

And I find that that translates for so many men into sexuality.

Right.

Where they'll sort of become neurotic about their sexual habits or practices, or it'll even become habitual. You know, it needs to happen at a certain time in a certain way and all that kind of stuff. And when we can drop down into this space of allowing and sort of feeling into our body in a deeper level and having the breath and becoming present in the breath, it allows for a much deeper sense of freedom. You know, whether. Whether it's within our art, our creation, our purpose, or our relationship, our intimacy.

Yeah, I would have not pegged you for not pressing if somebody said, hey, what's Connor's background?

You know, I don't know.

I would accept to pick anything but that. Right. Yeah. That's a cool surprise.

Yeah.

So let's kind of shift gears. Let's kind of shift gears into intimacy, since we're on that topic right now, because you talk quite a bit about spiritual intimacy for couples. And can you unpack that just that, or define it a little bit, Give some context for our listeners who might not be in that. In that spiritual realm?

Sure. And I'll give just a little example of it, because this happened on Sunday, and it was such a nice visual of it. So we. I did this. This workshop where I took four men to work with a hundred women who are learning erotic dance. And our job, as horrible as it is, was to witness their process in learning how to open their bodies and express themselves in this way. For Sheila Kelly, for the S Factor. And so what we realized and what we saw was that if we stood in front of them and we were like. We just talked about mind still empty, not, you know, in our lower body, really, really resting in consciousness. If we were like that, they had a space to bring their feminine, they could bring their emotions. Some of them just started weeping standing in front of us. Some of them just, you know, started. You just got really sensual and moved certain ways. But it was like we created the container with presence and structure and breath that allowed their feminine to come forth spontaneously. And, you know, that, to me, is. Is spiritual intimacy in the sexual realm. I mean, there's other pieces of it, but that was just such a beautiful thing because there was no dogma. There's no, you know, it's not, you know, I'm a Buddhist, but there was no Buddhism per se in that. There was no Catholicism or anything else. It was just a man standing, resting his consciousness, and a woman bringing massive amounts of energy, bringing what was true in her in the moment because she had a place to put it. And that, to me, is. Is a really beautiful definition of spiritual intimacy. So you can bring that into your sex. Like, if we bring some, you know, if we bring our emptiness or our stillness into our sex, that allows her to bring more of her energy into the sex or into the relationship. And so spiritual intimacy is, at least the way I define it, is around cultivating that. The. Cultivating the two. Two pillars. The one pillar is intimacy, which is, I'm just like you. You know, I have a soul, you have a soul. I'm afraid. You're afraid. Like, we're the same. Right. So the intimacy piece is there's no difference. Right. And when couples can do that, it's a really nice connection, but it's not sexual per se. And then you add the sexual clarity piece, which, you know, David Data talks about a lot, writes about a lot, which is celebrating that we're different. Like, one of us has a masculine essence and wants to animate that sometimes. One of us has a feminine essence and wants the. And when we do that, we put those two together where there's an arc of sexual energy and this feeling like we're one. It's. That's a beautiful. I think that's a beautiful, practical definition of achieving a spiritually intimate moment.

Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. I like that definition. And just for. I think just for maybe clarification's sake for the listeners out there, again, because I like to take things that can sometimes seem like very complicated issues or concepts and start to break them down in a very simplistic way. But you talk about the masculine and the feminine, and you touched on it before, around masculinity and masculine not necessarily being just the sort of the sex of it, but more of an energetic thing. Can you maybe just unpack a little bit or define masculine energies versus feminine energies and how that shows up? Because I think a lot of men. It's kind of interesting, maybe not on the west coast, but oftentimes I see on the east coast, lot of guys are. They kind of shy away from or avoid anything that might be associated with the feminine. Whereas on the west coast, you've got lots of yoga, lots of meditation. The spirituality is running rampant, where on the east coast it's a little bit more of that masculine. So I think finding some of these parameters is really important for the listeners. So what's been the feminine essence and energy? How would you describe that?

Well, you know, I'm going to take from partly from David because that's been. He's been my teacher for a long time. And I really believe the way that he lays it out. I think it's a very valuable framework, which is that the more connected to stillness, the infinite consciousness that I am, the more I'm in my masculine essence. So that could be walking down the street. So I could actually be walking down the street, like, just kind of walking. But what if I slowed it down a little bit? And what if I slowed my mind down or I slowed my breath down? Then I'm actually moving on the meter. If we had a meter, in my opinion, you know, closer to embodied masculine energy. So it's not fast, it's not frenetic. It's not like, you know.

It'S slower and it's deeper and it's res. It resonates on a. On a different level. There's a tone of voice almost to it. Like, there's a sound current to it. And so it really occurs as an energetic experience. Like somebody just feels. And this is old stuff. I mean, yin and yang, you know, Shiva and Shakti, alpha, omega. This, you know, it's not new. And so. So the masculine capacity, the masculine gift, let's say, is to come from that place. And if I'm coming from that place, I can. I can do two things for my feminine partner in the moment. Man or woman, whoever, whoever's playing the feminine, I can cherish her feelings and I can ravish her heart. Because I'm coming from a place of stillness, not from a place of movement. The feminine, on the other hand, is really all about movement, energy, light, love light. And so energetically, she's very much in that realm. So a man who's in a feminine moment will be moving a lot. A lot of guys, I think, get confused that, you know, they think, you know, being really angry, you know, somehow displaying their masculinity or like really getting, you know, macho is the perfect example. But anger, what happens when a man gets angry is he actually creates estrogen. So he literally is becoming more feminine. The more he moves, the more he's moaning. All that stuff. He's literally becoming more feminine. And so I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but you get the. It's more complicated than just, hey, you know, like a lot of guys get and flowy. So I think that if we change it and we just sort of. I like the idea of still empty, you know, calm, and. And the more that I'm. The more that I'm ticking towards that. The more I'm felt as masculine, and the more that I'm in my. Me or my partner is in this expressive love, energetic flow of love and connected to love, the more she's in her feminine. And when we bring those together, it's quite delicious. And so I think that it's a simple framework. I'm oversimplifying it. I'm trying to use words to, you know, clarify something that's super complicated, but that's a simple framework.

Nice. I like it. I like it. So in. In deepening intimacy and relationships, you know, this is something that you work on quite a bit with people. What are some of the processes that, you know, without maybe necessarily attending a workshop or reading a book, because I'm sure that a lot of our listeners have read where the superior man and whatnot. What are some of this. More, I guess, tactical things that people can do in order to cultivate that sense of intimacy within their partnership, Whether they've been married for 10 years or 15 years, or they've, you know, just started dating 10 weeks ago.

Right. Well, I work with a lot of couples, right. And so I think one of the things, the first things that I try to do when I'm working with couples is to clear the space of intimacy. So if I'm. If my partner and I have resentments, withholds, secrets, judgments, you know, all of these things, projections. If we have that in the space between us, then it's gonna be really difficult for us to have true sexual intimacy. Spiritual intimacy, if I want to call it that. So one of the first things we do is, like, let's create a safe space, safe container for that to be cleared. And that's as much of a spiritual practice as anything. Because if I'm going to make your opinion more important or your experience more important than me being right, that's in and of itself a spiritual practice. I'm more interested in you, in empathizing with you than I am with being right. So I'm a big fan of the Imago dialogue. I teach it to everybody. I don't know if you know that, but you Know, the Harvl Hendrix dialogue is great. Your people can get it. I have it on my website. You just Google it. And that's a great container for people to not make each other wrong for how they think and feel. And I think if that's a starting point, that would be the first thing I would say create some kind of container, get some kind of practice where you're not going to make each other wrong. And that in of itself is spiritual practice. And then the second thing is, the most important thing I can see now that's easy to do is to start to feel your partner.

And so it goes back to this breath practice and this awareness practice. Like, you could probably. I don't know if you're in the apartment by yourself or if there's somebody with you, but you could probably, if there was somebody in the other room, I could say place your awareness on them and just start to feel them. Like, how are they feeling today? How are they breathing today? How are they moving today? And as I start to place my awareness on them, feeling them, maybe even if they're next to you breathing, like matching my breath to them, I'm going to be more intimate. I mean, immediately, like, boom, now we're locked in, and literally we're resonant. So if we just pay a little more attention practicing feeling each other. This can happen while you're making coffee together in the morning. Like, you walk past her, and as you walk past her, you, like, feel how she feels, right. Or feel how she's breathing or anything like that. And, you know, any partner can do that. And if we do that, we're gonna. We're gonna do a couple things. We're gonna actually make them. We're gonna relax them because they know they can feel that we're feeling them, which is actually a really beautiful experience to know that your partner's feeling you. And we're going to be able to know what they need. Like, take them someplace they can't take themselves in a moment, right. If they're tight, you know, and we can feel that they're tight, like would, you know, would kissing their neck, you know, relax them? Would tickling them relax them? Would throwing her over your shoulder, like, open her heart, you know, we will feel it. Yeah. So I was going to give three things. I would say create a container to clear the space so that there's nothing between you. Actually practice feeling your partner. In daily life, it's kind of a beautiful foreplay. Really think about it and practice breathing with them. So if you're sitting next to them on the couch. You can actually match your breath to their breath. And they might not even know it, but all of a sudden they'll feel you there. Those are three. There's a lot more, but those are three that you can certainly start doing right now.

Yeah, I feel like that's a really good starting gate so we don't overwhelm. I wanted to talk a little bit about desires because one of the things that I hear a lot from men, especially within relationships, often, is that they might carry some shame around a desire sexually within a relationship or just within the dynamic of the relationship. Really comes down to being able to ask for what they want within that dynamic. And there's often a hesitancy there or shame. And I'm wondering if you can elaborate a little bit on how couples can talk about desires within the relationship. Whether it's fantasies, whether it's in the bedroom, or whether it's within the dynamic of the relationship.

Right now, that's a really powerful practice for couples to get into. My friend Robert Kandel, who's one of the guys who started One Taste. I don't know if you know Robert. He's got this great line. You know, if somebody tells you what they want, don't make them wrong for it. I mean, it sounds like such a simple thing, but, yeah, don't make them wrong if they're telling you what they want. And that's just a beautiful. You know, that requires us to put, you know, our. To put their happiness or their expression above what our trigger. Right. So that's a. That's a spiritual practice in and of itself. And then above and beyond that, what I like. There's a specific practice that I give, which is after sex, talk about it. Like, you know, what I loved about that was, you know, my girlfriend and I do this quite regularly. Like, what I loved about that was this moment and this moment and how you did this. Because then they're getting, like, information that they might not have known. Like, wow, he really dug when I did that. Let me bookmark that. And then give one thing that you wanted more of. Like, I would have wanted more, you know, crazy, you know, wild Amazon energy. I would have loved that. And she, oh, okay. If we're praising each other first and we're talking about what's beautiful and what's right, then our capacity to hear, you know, one thing that our partner wants is not necessarily, you know, taken as criticism. It's usually metabolized a lot better.

Yeah, it's Interesting. I read a study recently that showed that the most receptive time that men are open to talking about sex is after. Often right after sex. Like, immediately after sex.

Right. Okay, yeah, great. Well, then I'm here. That science is backing up.

My science is science has got your back right here.

Yeah, right on. Good, good.

So how can couples broach that and sort of make not a practice of it, but how can they really integrate this into their relationship, regularness of their sex life?

So going back to the start of our conversation, I put this on the masculine partner. I'm like, okay, part of the masculine responsibility is to feel where the relationship needs to go. That's part of good leadership. Like, okay, what do we need? How's our sex? Is it stale, a little bit? Or do we need a little of this? Or if I'm feeling her, what can I tell she needs? And so if I'm being a good leader in my relationship, I'm feeling that. And I'm going to say, okay, let's set up a practice or let's have a discussion or let's, you know, let's just add this to our repertoire. So I put it on the masculine, and I would say just create it. Create a little container for it. Like, I would love to hear what you would want more sexually. Right? Like, just tell me, like, what would you. What would you love more of? And the language, I think, is important. Like, what would you love more of versus what I'm doing wrong, you know, and that creates a way for us to metabolize it. So I would love more of this. I would love more of that. And I always find that, you know, and, you know, I think. I think, you know, spiritual intimacy is really more about art than spirituality. It's about what liberates the most. Love in the moment. What liberates the most? You know, what liberates the moment, what makes the moment bright. And so our capacity to feel that is really a byproduct of our personal practice. And I would say, you know, just create conversations where you're. You're. It's a culture. Like, I would love to have a culture in my relationship of honesty. So as the masculine partner, I'm responsible, just like I would if I owned a company. You own a company, you're responsible for the. For the culture of that company. So, yeah, like, what would I. What would I like to have the culture of? And then get busy creating that feminine wants that women are dying to be led. If they're feminine by nature, which 90% of them are they're dying to be led well, like that.

Yeah. It's really interesting because, I mean, you talked about culture within the relationship, which I would love to sort of maybe cap things off on, but you kind of dove into this idea that the man can really take leadership in that space. But also the language, I think, is so important because with the sort of nice guy syndrome and a lot of nice guys, it's like, oh, well, I asked her, did you like that? Did you enjoy that? Or what didn't you like? And oftentimes it's coming from this very sheepish, timid space of not really being open to actually hearing the truth.

Right.

You know, and it's sort of like this pensive place, this anxious place that they'll often come from.

Approval.

Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

So.

Exactly, exactly. So after sex, they're like, seeking that validation. And I think what you're talking about, or at least what I feel what you're talking about, is not actually about validation. It's about the real connection of the. Of the intimate acts that just happened. And being able to say, what did you really love about that Is such a different. It lands so differently than was that okay. You know, And I think that having that language is really, really important in terms of eliciting feedback. Is there any other language shifts that you would offer for couples, whether it's intimacy or. Or whether it's just about giving feedback or whatever the case may be?

Yeah, I think that if you're with a feminine partner, right, she's always going to want to be praised for her radiance, her beauty, her light, her capacity, just her brightness. Not that she wouldn't want to be praised for her entrepreneurial savvy or her intelligence as well, but she wants to be seen. And so using language that really appreciates that is very powerful. And it opens up a space of. Really feel like I'm being seen. And if you're with a masculine partner, he, of course, wants to be trusted, appreciated, acknowledged. And so if you're with a masculine partner, finding ways to, you know, just acknowledge the places he does show up for you, the way he does lead, well, how he does make you happy. You know, like, you talked about the beginning, like, men love wins, and they're constantly thinking, am I winning? Am I losing? Am I winning? Am I losing? And so language like that really helps a masculine partner. And I think once you lubricate communication with praise, people are so much more willing to hear. And what I would love more of what I. What I would you know, if a masculine. If a feminine partner came to a masculine partner and said, would you like to hear what I would need to trust you more? I mean, as a man, would you be cool with that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So. So I say to women, like, just ask that question. Like, would you like to know what I would need to trust you more for me to trust you even more than I trust you? I don't know a guy, a good guy on the planet that would say, no, fuck off. So those kinds of things. What I would need is a classic one, like, because it's hard to argue, you know, and you know what I would need to feel you more or what I would need to, you know what? Would you like to know what I would need to feel you more talking to a feminine partner? And I just think, you know, and everybody's got to use their own language. I'm just giving mine as an example. But I think it's part of the art. Because the thing about language is that language creates new terrain. We can't go anywhere without the language to describe it, whether it's Einstein or, you know, or anything. You know, I mean, people think about it. We need to create the language before we can take the journey. And so each couple, you know, has this capacity to create new language and learn from other people. People like you, other teachers, you know, all these great teachers that are around now to add new language so that they have new terrain that they can go into new possibilities versus the ones that they just were taught by their parents or, you know, culture.

Yeah, it's recreating or redesigning the programming that's there. Right. Because I think a lot of people, they start to recognize the programming that they're running, then they don't really know how to shift that program or rewrite it. And I think what's really important about what you're describing and bringing forward into this conversation is that words actually are so important. I can't remember who said it, but words create worlds.

It's a great quote.

I just can't remember. I'd have to find it so I can put it in the notes. But it really is true, because words create our perception. And I think that's why it's so important and why I wanted you to share some of those, reframe, so that people have the language to actually communicate properly and to start rewriting some of that programming that they may have had, they may have heard from their childhood that they, you know, may have acquired during high school or, you know, a Not so great partnership in the beginning of their, of their life. So I think that's really important.

Two things I would say, just to put a pin in that. Yeah. Because people are like, how do I, I know what I'm doing wrong? I get this from a lot of men, but I don't know how to stop doing it. Like, I don't know how to stop reacting to her when she criticizes me, or I don't know how to, you know, you know, all those things. And you put, you really, you nailed it. And I think this conversation, it's good because I'm getting this as well, which is. It's language. You're right, it's language and it's our nervous system capacity. And so if we practice, you know, if the people won't want to, you know, work on that gap, it's those two areas strengthening our nervous system. So it overrides our habitual thinking, habitual body, mind reactivity, and then creating new language. And if we can put those together, that's a really powerful cocktail for helping to bring change and bring more of us to our relationships.

So good. So good, man. I feel like we could talk for hours, but I want to be respectful of your time because we are unfortunately coming to a close. But you mentioned the book, the Art of Masculine Leadership.

Yeah.

When is that coming out? Rough timeframe.

Yeah, Fall this year. Yeah, fall this year is gonna come out. So I'll be sure to, you know, send you a copy and.

Yeah, well, we'll have to. Maybe have to have you revisit here, but. Very cool. And in terms of what else is going on in the future, what are you really excited about? I think you mentioned that David did come to speak in your studio.

Yeah, yeah. It's two nights from now, so he's gonna be in LA for a few days and I'm really excited to host him and 50 or 60 people here. So. Yeah, that's going to be great. And then I'm doing a program. I don't know if you know Kendra Kunoff, but she's one of the founders of Authentic World. Worked with Decker Kunov on the Authentic man project for a long time. Her and I teach a relationship salon which goes in depth into a lot of the stuff we're talking about. And it's a six month program and that starts in the beginning of June. So if people are interested in that and they want to take a deep dive into a six month journey of what we talked about, they can, they can look me up and see the details of that.

Amazing, Amazing. And we'll put it in the, in the notes below. But just for the listeners out there in case they don't want to check the link, where can people find more information about you personally?

Yeah. Johnweinland.com Pretty simple.

Yeah, super simple. And you're on all the socials. They can Instagram stalk you?

Yeah, yeah, they can find me. I'm visible sometimes to my dismay and detriment. But yes, I'm out there.

Wonderful. All right, John, well, thank you so much for being on the Man Talks podcast. I really appreciate it. It was incredible insight and wisdom into relationships.

Thank you, Connor. It was my pleasure.

And for everybody else out there tuning into the Man Talks podcast, be sure to go to mantalks.com for more podcast episodes from our blog, posts from writers around the world, and for some of our live recordings from our live events around North America, which we are slowly releasing. So check us out on the Internet. And until next week, this is Connor Beaton signing off for Man Talks until next week, Join us for another inspiring conversation with another inspiring man.