Overcoming Trauma, Gang Life and Building Self-Respect with @AJMcQueenTheGreat

All right, Mr. A.J. mcQueen. Welcome to the Man Talk Show. How are you doing today, my friend?

I'm blessed, brother. Glad to be here, man.

Yeah. I mean, for those of you that are not familiar with AJ's work, I was telling. I was telling you that I stumbled across your music, your art on Instagram, and was immediately struck. And just like your. Your lyrics and. And what you were talking about in your music really hit with me. And then I kind of went down a little bit of a rabbit hole. AJ McQueen, rabbit hole. And I said, I watched a couple of interviews, and I was like, I think I want to sit down with this guy and just have a conversation and kind of get to know you and hear a little bit more about your life. And so here we are. So thank you so much for taking the time with me.

Yeah, no, I'm glad to be here, bro. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. So let's start where I like to start often, which is tell us a story about a defining moment in your life that made you who you are today, man.

So many. But what I will say is, you know, a few years ago, I was in a. A very serious relationship, you know. You know, it's very serious to me, man. And I, you know. You know, they say, you know, men fought, men fall in love three times in their life. That's what they say. I don't. I don't know if it's true, but. And so, you know, your first love is the, you know, just the. The puppy love and, you know, and then the second one, you know, you, You. You. You know, that's. That's one where you. You really. You open your heart, you learn how to learn how to. You're learning how to love and learning how to mature and, you know, emotional intelligence and things like that. And in that relationship, you know, who my capacity at that time, I was. I was all in. You know, and. And, you know, and then not all. In some other ways, I'm gonna. I don't want to get on her lie. Like, I. Like, I didn't have things to work on, but long story short, she broke up with me. You know what I'm saying? And, yeah, bro, that. That, you know, a relationship can make you have a revelation. You know what I mean? And she broke up with me, man. And he held me accountable to all of the, you know, all the things I need to be held accountable for as a man, and that really defined me, bro. You know, I mean, for a lot of reasons, you know, not just the relationship, but just the Idea that, you know, you're not who you say you are. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, just having that real mirror moment is what really defined this person I am now. You know, mentally, emotionally. I lost myself. But, you know, sometimes you have to lose yourself to be found. You know what I mean? And so that's this version. This version of me, as we speak now, is the version that came on the other side of that, you know, I mean, so there's so much beauty in it, but it was very defining for me, for sure.

Do you. Do you feel like some men need to go through heartbreak in order to discover a deeper part of who they are? Like, do you think that that's a prerequisite for some men? I know it was for me, but, yeah.

Yeah, I would say that. You know, it's this book that I've. That I've been reading called All About Love by Bell Hooks. And it's either. It's either that one. It's. It's either that or. Or another. It's another bell hooks book. But I don't want to misquote her. But in the book, it talks about how statistically, you know, a lot of. A lot of love, you know, relationship books are written by men, you know, I mean, and, you know, and it talks about how when men write them, it's. It's normally written in retrospect, you know, as in. In a space of learning. This is what I learned. This is what I. You know what I'm saying? Like, past tense, reflective moments and journeying. Whereas, you know, women, you know, right from a place of longing, and this is what I want. You know what I mean? But y' all would say, you know, it would be. It would be. It would be beautiful to be able to say, you know, we can grow and we can evolve as men without, you know, heartbreak and without hit bumping our head a million times and getting it wrong so many times. But, you know, I don't think that that would be. I just don't think that that's the path, you know, forces, man. So I would say, yeah, it sucks that pain has to define us, but it does, you know, and in hopes that that pain is not a pain that is final. Right? Like, in hopes that this is a pain that we can grow from, we can learn from, and we can get another chance at it. Yeah.

You had a line. I don't remember if it was from one of your songs or from an interview that I watched. And you said, why am I always treating Sex, like drugs, addicted to the feeling. And I was like, oh, yeah, you just, like, hit my 20s.

That song. Anxiety.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Can you. Can you just dig into that for me? Because I think for a lot of men, that's very relatable.

Yeah, bro. Yeah. You know, in that line, for sure, that was really me just purging and, you know, again, being vulnerable. And. You know, what I've learned just through my journey as a man when it comes to sex is my lack of discipline. You know what I mean? And it's important that I spoke on that because not only for myself to be able to release and just to be honest about my journey, but inadvertently, it was so many. I mean, it shook the world up. Even that line, I didn't. At the time when I was writing, I had no idea. I didn't. I was not sitting there saying, man, I know when I say this, they gonna. No, I thought people gonna look at me like a. Like a weakling. Like somebody that's like, man, why don't you, bro? And where the hoes at, man? We don't want to hear that. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, man, we wanna. We want to see that macho. We want to see that the man that, you know, the confident man. We don't want to hear you questioning if you having too much sex. But I'm Gl. Said it, bro, because, you know, man, I. I was. I was exposed to sex early in my life, bro. Like, I think. I think I was seven, bro. And I. I think I walked. I think I either. Yeah, I walked in on like a. I think it was like a. It was either a friend or. Or somebody. They was watching. They was watching something shouldn't have been watching. And as a child, that's what exposed me, you know, since I wasn't exposed to sex in healthy way. And a lot. A lot of us men aren't not in a healthy way. You know, I'm saying. I mean, of course it'd be nice to have a birds and a beast talk and somebody to tell you, you know, not just. I'm talking about being responsible physically, but being responsible mentally and spiritually. You know? I mean, I don't know if there's talks like that. I definitely didn't have one. You know what I mean? And so being exposed to sex so early, that mixed with, you know, no parental advisory, mixed with just untamed hormones, you know what I mean? You become a sexual creature. You know what I mean? And the Crazy thing about my whole story, bro, is with everything I just said, I didn't have sex until I got married. I got married at 19, you know what I'm saying? I got married when I was 19, so. But everything that I'm saying, I held a gun before I held a woman. So with all that stuff I'm saying, it was all up here, you know what I mean? And being exposed. And the world talks about how women are hypersexualized, and I believe that they are, but they don't talk about how, as men are, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we can be put in spots and places in life where, you know, we're hypersexualized and. And, you know, and the idea of it seems like that's what masculinity is, you know what I'm saying? And we have to go on our own journey, bro. And there's no. There's. There's not a lot of grace in the area, you know what I'm saying? It's not a lot of grace in area. You know, the music, the movies, the, you know, sometimes the men that we are around or the environment makes us feel like we have to rise and show up in this way. And. And with my music, my goal is to, you know, be able to create a safe space for men to be. To be men, man, like, and be honest about where they are. So when I said that, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'm treating sex like drugs, you know what I'm saying? I'm addicted to the feeling. I ain't even done healing straight up. Like, that was just a honest line. And I literally, when I wrote it, thought about scratching it out because I'm like. I don't know if I should say that, but, bro, I just left the third man. And it's been able to help so many people and let them know that I'm just like them.

Yeah, it's like sex can kind of be. Have you ever heard of the term copium? Yeah, you know, where it's. It's. It becomes this thing to cope with the loneliness or the pain or the disconnection. And. Yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of guys it's interesting because for some men, they'll have that experience where, you know, sex and women become this kind of, what you want to call it, addiction or, you know, it's like a coping mechanism. Then for other men who, you know, that's not available for them. Porn really? Is that that thing?

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And I mean, it's just so accessible. It's insane. Say a little bit more about you. You said, I think I held a gun before I held a woman. Say a little bit more about that.

Yeah, yeah, bro. You know, growing up, growing up in. In St. Louis, you know, I'm from one of the worst parts. Well, actually, I'm from two of the worst parts of St. Louis, Wellston and Baden. It's just if you look it up, bro, you know, it's. It's. There's no place, you know, for, you know, a young black man to grow up. You know what I'm saying? How come not even just yet? Because, you know, I mean, 1. When people think of, like, the hood of the streets, of course it's been glamorized, bro, but, you know, you. You know, you're in a food desert, you know, but that's one. You know, the whole. The whole neighborhood is impoverished. You know, the idea of having a dad in the house is just foreign, you know what I'm saying? I come from where, boy, you were special. If you had a dad in your house, you boy, what, you're special. And then if you got a Daniel's and he didn't, and he wasn't abusive, oh, boy, you won. That's how. That's the idea of, you know, growing up, you know what I mean? So I come from those. From Those parts of St. Louis, you know, I mean, murder rate high, you know, it's not safe to. To walk down the street, you know what I mean? And. And do all that unless you get. Unless you active, unless you involved in. In the hood policy, you know, I mean, that's your safety, that's your protection. That's your, you know, that's your defense mechanism. And so me, I had a very interesting life because, you know, I'm in this environment, I'm around all these people. I got four sisters. I had two stepbrothers that got murdered. So I'm only boy. And, you know, the idea of being a tough guy, you heard me, always was the thing. I mean, but it ain't, you know, really. That's why. That's why my. My narration of the Of. Of evolution is important, especially for those that come from where I come from, because I give you a real picture, a real, real depiction. You know, my next door neighbor was white. So this idea of I'm in from the hood and black. No, my next door neighbor's white. He went through the same struggles I went through. When you in poverty Ain't no race. What you talking about, man? We broke. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't nobody care about none of that, bro. Like, this classism, you know what I mean? It's division, bro. Don't nobody care about that, man. Like, he had the same struggles I had. His mom's white, you know what I'm saying? He died. He. He got. He got. He. He died some years back. He got found in the park and it was facing the steering wheel. He got shot in the back of the head. And that. And that was my childhood friend. So I grew up with a different view, bro, when it comes down to that. And, you know, so I was. I was exposed to violence very early. You know, I mean, guns, the idea of guns and, you know, and. And the Bible was all I knew at a young. At a young age, you know what I'm saying? So I was exposed to. To gunfire. I was supposed to women, you know, I. I would see women, you heard me. But my mom was abused when I was a child. We were abused too. I. I was abused. My sisters were abused. Two of my sisters, we were. We were abused by. By my mom's boyfriend. And, you know, so you grew up in toxic masculinity with no outlet, you know, guns, survival, you know, but you're growing up, bro. The first interaction I had with a woman, I think I was. I was 13, bro, just after a basketball game, you know what I'm saying? She was. She was like two years older than me. So it's like, you know, we went to the same school. The same. The same. Yeah. He was in junior high, so she was like a grade higher than me or something like that. And we was at the house by herself, and she attempted to, like, you know, like, you know, want to be sexual with me. But imagine this dude who, again, if you go see me in the hood, I'm around. I'm around. I'm around murderers, I'm around, like, selling drugs, you know what I'm saying? I'm around. I'm around these people. But I didn't even know how to be vulnerable enough to hold a woman without the idea of doing what my mom's boyfriend does to her, beaten her. Because it all sounds the same. Through a room. Through a room. Sex and violence sound the same. It sounds. The screams sound the same, bro. The yelling. And without an interpreter, I'm like, oh, that's. I don't wanna. So I. The. The first interaction I had with her, bro, I freezed up, bro. Freezed Up. She couldn't understand why, you know, why my nature wouldn't rise the way it should. No, because I was scared. And, you know, as a man, to be able to say that, especially you in the hood. You scared? Scared of what? 2. To be vulnerable, to be open, to be anything other than the idea of what manhood is to this group of people that, you know, probably won't make it out of hospital. You know what I mean? So that was my first interaction, bro. And then I got shot shortly after that. Then I got sent away. So it just. It never, you know, and then getting shot made, you know, made me more insecure than who. Than I already was. And, you know, that just went into my. My teens and my adulthood, bro. And that was my journey, you know, early on.

That's wild, man. I mean, I appreciate you sharing all that. And I mean, I just, you know, it's hard, I think, for many people to have context for that type of environment. And I'm curious, like, looking back at it, in hindsight, how. How did it shape your vision or your view? I mean, I think you're giving clues to it, but how. How did it shape your vision and your view of what it meant to be a man? Like, as you were growing up as a teenager, you know, what was younger AJ Looking at what it means to be a man, like, how did that come about?

It was very interesting, man, because, you know, my mom's boyfriend, again, very abusive, man. Very. He would. He would. Like, when I said I was abusive child, I was abused. Like, I'm not talking about, like, some, like, whoopings and this new age abuse. You know, these days, you yell at her, you lit. You yell at a kid. They say you abuse me, man. No, I would be to where I couldn't sit down. I'd been hit with guns. I've been hit with weapons. I was hit with the end of. The end of a hammer. Not the metal part, but the. The wooden part. Just, you know, he would make weapons out of anything and. And, you know, try to break my soul. And he, you know, he would lock us in. Lock us inside the house. So, you know how, you know, you have to have a key to lock the door when you leave? We had to have a key to unlock the door to leave. So we were locked in the house. And then there's my dad. And my dad was the total opposite of my mom's boyfriend. Total opposite. My dad never put his hands on me, never cursed at me, you know, would hug me, tell me, love me a Million times a day, you know, it was. You know, it just. He just. He was a giver. He never disrespect my mom in front of me, ever. Unfortunately. I. You know, when my mom, you know, was moving around and I was with her, I wasn't able to be with my dad, you know. You know, because they weren't together. So it wasn't. You know. So the times I'm referring to the abuse, my dad wasn't around for that, you know, and not because he didn't want to be, but, you know, and I think that's important to say because I think a lot of. A lot of. A lot of black men, men in general, but specifically, in my experience, black men get a bad rep when it comes down to fatherhood sometimes, you know, this idea of, you know, dad's not wanting to be there, I think it's just. I think it's unfair, man. I think that it's more difficult than that. And it took me to get older to give my dad more grace, you know what I'm saying? I was like, oh, because I've dated women with kids. I've been there. I've been this. And I'm like, oh, it ain't that. He. You know what I'm saying? To. Just. Because what my dad was supposed to do, you know, he tried to come over to the house one time. I remember I was. I don't know how old. I would try to come over the house one time. And I am in the house, and my mom's boyfriend is looking out the window as I'm looking out the window to see my dad walking up the sidewalk. And then the dude, he. My boyfriend grabs his gun and he opens the door, and they have this interaction. My dad see the gun on the side of him, and what are you supposed to do? You know what I mean? This ain't a movie, man. Like, this ain't. This ain't. This ain't a movie, right? Like, you know, so as I got older, I gave my dad a lot more grace, you know what I mean? And because he wanted to be there, he just couldn't, you know? And that is the story I have. I know it's more polarizing and. And more. It gives you more attention to say, you know, my dad didn't love me and all that. That's not my story, bro. I thought it was, though. I used to call my dad a debate because that's what my mama told me it was. And I think it's just unfair, man. And the way we love our moms and sometimes be unfair to our dads, bro. You know what I mean? And again, that's not every case. There are some fathers that don't want to be in their kids lives, you know what I mean? But I'm not talking about them somebody. I'm talking about the other ones. I'm talking about the ones that, you know, circumstantial, man. And, and, and you know, they also have. Dealing with their own mental health and their own battles and their own stuff and it's just sometimes it's. It's harder. So that's my whole spiel to give my dad a grace that I never. That I. My dad unfortunately passed away in 2016, so this, this version of me, he, he hasn't gotten to see. And. But my life has been interesting because though I saw the toxicness, I come from the streets, bro. I come from all of that, bro. As I get older, I'm more like my dad, you know what I'm saying? I'm more gentle, you know, patient, you know, graceful, you know, And I thought I was gonna be like the other man, because that's what I saw, you know what I mean? And. But I think, I think it's a telltale story to. As men, we can unlearn and relearn, you know, you can, you can unlearn, man. You don't have to be, you know, this idea of being a product of our environment is what we told, especially as, as little black boys, you know, our whole life, bro, you know what I mean? And basically tell you, look, this all you can. Is it? That's, that's all you can be, you know, I'm saying this, you either gonna do this or do that, you know, and. But I broke the odds, bro. You know, I'm saying I defied the eyes, you know, And I in, in my, my story is, is living proof, man, you know what I'm saying? That you can grow, you can evolve, and so many people can give up on you, but you can evolve. So as I get older, more like my dad, don't get me wrong. I went through a lot of stuff though. I went through a lot. I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm a, I'm a villain in somebody's story. Probably a lot of you heard me. I'll buy it, bro. In somebody's story, I'm the worst person ever alive. And you know what? You know what? I don't even blame it, bro. You know what I'm saying? Because you know, there was Versions of me, man, that what. That was impossible, you know, And I can acknowledge that. You know what I mean? And I made my. I made my peace with it all, you know, apologize where I could. I think that's important as man. But after all of that, I made a declaration to myself and my inner child that I'm not going to be held to older versions of me, you know what I'm saying? And that's just so important to speak life over yourself as a man, because nobody's going to give you that space, bro. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's gonna give you that space. Not to. Not to. Not to. To love. To love. To give yourself autonomy over everybody else. Nobody's gonna give you that permission. And somehow you can have wife, kids, bills, all that. But I'm still telling you, give yourself autonomy. Deal. You know what I'm saying? Because my dad passed away. As great as my dad was, my dad passed away. And to this day, I feel like people forgot about him. Because as men, our journeys are so. I mean, we're created to. I was talking to a homegirl, a friend. Not a homegirl, a friend the other day, and we were talking about something. She was like, you know, when I. When I. She was like, I'm a paraphrase. But she was like, you know, I don't open doors. Like, you know, a man's supposed to open the door for me. And I was like, any man. Yeah, any man that walk up to the door, I'm a stander. And. And. And I said. And then. So we got deeper to the discussion. I said. I said, man, I said. I said. I found that very interesting. No. And no. My response to her was, I said. I said, you know, one of the most. The sweetest things that ever happened in my life happened one day. I was with this. I was with this woman, and I opened the door for her. You know what I'm saying? And I go around in my car to my door, and it was already open, so I started tripping. I was like, man, somebody broke in the car. You heard me? Somebody tried to get me. They broke in the car. She said, no. I opened it saying, what? And then I'm like, I can't receive the love, bro. I said, why are you open Love? I'm a grown man. Don't. Don't do nothing. Don't. Don't do that for me. Don't. I start pushing back. Don't do nothing like that. She's like, you open mind still, though, don't do that don't evasculate me, don't make me feel like a weaker person. She was like, no, you open mine. But it was so hard for me to accept, bro, you know what I'm saying? Because that's not the story that we're told in most cases. You know, I mean, this idea that you can, you can be loved as an equal. I mean, you know, I mean, like, I mean, yeah, we have the, the women and the kids and I. Yeah, but you are, you are not a second class human. You know what I'm saying? Your, Your emotions, your, your thoughts, your dreams, your goals matter. You know, I mean, and then so we got into more of a discussion. I said, you know what's. I say, you know what's interesting? Y' all have programmed in y' all minds that we're supposed to die for y'. All. I said, and you know what's crazy? Most of us will. I'm talking about the idea you could be at a pro, you could be shopping somewhere and somebody jumps out and grabs a woman that you don't even know innately. I mean, unless you, you know, unless you talk yourself out of it or unless you just not that type of man. Because not every man has to be a superhero. I don't want to put that on all of us. Some men don't want to fight at all. But there's in most men, there's something in us that will make you want to go spring into action, bro. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of. You'd have forgot you had kids and wife at home. I mean, I'm talking about it like the burning building idea. I will run into this building and get whoever, bro. But the story, they don't tell the rest of the story. You forget about yourself. You forget about you. You, you didn't, you didn't let go of all your dreams and goals to spring into action and to help somebody else. What about you? And then, and then for us that find it hard to even let other people in and, you know, vulnerably and let them help us and let them. How are you living, bro? How are you operating, man? How you, how you, how you doing it, man? How are you out here every single day, bro? Just going, going, going, going without. And if you don't have your mental health, you know, and set up, you don't have a therapist, you don't have a mentor, you have a relationship with God, you don't have this, this. The things you do for your own self care and you know, the things you Love to do for yourself or how are you able to operate, bro? And how long can you do this? How long can you keep this up? You know what I'm saying? What are you suppressing? You know what I mean? Like. Like, what's your outlet, bro? How. And I think that that's important. And as a man, that's a place where I've gotten to. I've gotten to that place, bro, where I give myself ultimate autonomy. And I didn't even notice this place existed, bro. I didn't even know. I'm talking about the autonomy that doesn't attack somebody else's, of course. But I'm just saying, like, the most powerful words. I've been using some powerful words lately, bro. First powerful word no with no explanation. No. No. Asia, can you. No. I didn't know I could do that. I know. I didn't even think. I felt like. I guess that's just not. I can't do that. I have to go above and beyond and beyond and beyond and beyond. And then the other word I've been using. It's. Okay, Somebody say something. Okay? I've accepted it. Okay. I'm not. We not finna do the whole tango. We're not about to. I'm not about to get out my body as a man. I'm not about to get angry. Okay? And the third one, which is one I've been using for, like, over 10 years, is small thing. And the con. The way you use small thing is you can. Somebody can say, hey, man, thank you for doing this for me. You know, I appreciate whatever. And you could be like, small thing, bro. Or your girl could be arguing and yelling at you and whatever. Whatever. Small thing. Or you could be going through. It could feel like the world gonna come down on you, and you just. Small thing. What small thing means is this is not bigger than God. It's not bigger. It's not that I'm about to take this and shrink it to where I can handle it. Small things. Small thing. And that's really how I. I've been operating.

Reminds me. It's like. Do you know the bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman?

Yeah, Ronnie Coleman. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. He used to just, like, yell out, lightweight. Yeah, it's like, you know, bench pressing, like, £600.

Lightweight.

It's like. But that's. Yeah, I love that concept because it's. I think, for a lot of us, as mentioned, I mean, you know, I've been working with men for a decade, and one of the things that I'VE come to see in men from every walk of life all over the world is that we interact with the world from this place of assuming that it's the same as what we experience inside of ourselves. And for most men, what they experience inside of themselves is real big intensity that feels like it's too much for them to handle. And so they're trying to contain that intensity so that it doesn't spill out on other people. And then that's the framework that we then operate when we relate to anything else, you know, is. And it's always this kind of dance of like, is that too big? Is that too much? Is that too intense? You know, the way that we're behaving, but also, you know, the stuff that's happening outside of ourselves, and we can make, you know, mountains out of molehill.

Yeah, yeah. No, and. And I don't think. I don't think a lot of us have been, you know, taught that, bro. And, you know, again, from different walks of life, bro. It has nothing to do with race and politics and classism. No, bro. Deep down inside. Deep down inside, bro. A lot of us haven't been taught those things. And so we learn as we go and we learn as we go. And, you know, there's some damage along the way, you know what I mean? You know, getting to this place and, you know, and then some of us don't make it to this place, you know, and again, my life is a testament of evolution. Rome. People. People see me, you know, they. And I'm talking about people who see me and who knew me. They be astonished, bro. You know, how. And of course, I always give glory to the most high. And then after that, you know, I give. I give glory to myself, man. And that's important, bro, this book. But again, who's gonna tell you that? I was gonna tell you to big yourself up, man. You heard me? Like, who tell you to big yourself up? You putting them hours, man, because you had other. You had other things you could have did, but not. I know that I can call her over her, even though. Even though I'm not done doing what I said I was going to do. I know. I know it. I know that. I know that I can go and go do something total opposite and keep my word. I know that. I'm very conscious of that. And so, yeah, man, we got to be able to pull back into ourselves, man, and hopefully, you know, we. We. We reach a place in life. We reach a place in life as a man, where we are in an environment that pours back into us, you know, I mean, this idea of, you know, whether that be a marriage, a healthy relationship, kids, you know, career, something that pours back to you, but how long can you go on without watering yourself and pouring back into yourself? You know, I was telling somebody the other day, this idea of self love for men is new, you know what I'm saying? It's very feminine, you know, I mean, like, it's very, like, love myself. But a lot of us have reached a new level of emotional intelligence and. And society is scared of it, you know what I mean? Some. Some women scared of it. Our vocabulary is different, bro. We saying different words. We stand in the house more, you know what I'm saying? We read in different books. We, you know, we. We listen to different music, we're using different soaps, you know what I mean? Like.

That'S good.

Yeah. Yeah. What kind of.

So, like, the soap that has a loofah built into the scrubby soap.

I want to use that too. Yeah, give me. Give me that one. We using different soaps, bro. They didn't even know we'd even, boy. Yeah, like. And that's. It's beautiful, man, because we deserve to evolve, bro, all of us, man, but we got to stop giving up on ourselves. And that's what my music and my, you know, my. My message and, you know, that's what I pray that I reflect, you know, when. When, When. When people come across my, you know, my. My what I put out into the world is that not a perfect man, but a man that refuses to give up. No, for sure.

Yeah. I think that kind of ties into one of the questions that I wanted to dive into with you, you know, you. I think it was in an interview, I heard you say your trauma becomes a springboard, but you have to use it the right way. And then you followed it up by. By saying our gifts and our trauma are woven in together. And, you know, I think for the listener's sake, I'd love for you to maybe just speak a little bit to how you've gone about doing that, because I think for so many men, you know, whether they have trauma or pain or, you know, they. They just can't stand themselves. I mean, I. I think, you know, a lot of the guys I end up seeing, they just really. They just really hate themselves, you know, like, there's no two ways about it. Do not like who they are. And that's a hard thing to walk around in the world with, you know, it's like, how are you Supposed to love somebody who. Or let yourself be loved by them, like you were talking about before, when you feel fundamentally unworthy of that. And so can you just share some of the pieces that have led you down that path? Like, how did you go about doing that?

Yeah, you know, for me, yeah, as I got shot, bro, I got sent away, you know, so I got like plucked up from like my whole family and I got sent away and I stayed with multiple families, bro. And I really lost myself, man. You know, I lost the idea of self that I was given, you know, I mean, because it's not you, you know what I'm saying? You know, until you unpack and repack it, you don't know yourself, you know, I mean, you think, you know, you don't know, you know, I mean, I'm not your emotion, they're not your thoughts, they're not your aspirations, them. That's what society, friends, family comparison, that's what that has told you to think and want. So for me, you know, I've had. I've went through different awakenings in my life, you know, I mean, my dad passed away. It was very, it was a very man. That was a big. I've only, I've only went to the. Went through depression three, three times in my life. Yeah. And one, when my dad passed, you know, to my, my, my last relationship. Well, no, two. So. Two times. Two times. And you know, that was really defining for me, you know, I, I questioned everything and I had to rebuild, you know what I'm saying? And allow the most how to deal with my heart. But I'll tell you, these are the secrets that I've practiced that has helped me get to place. And these are these some radical secrets, brother. There' there's some hard shit, what I'm about to say. Acceptance, true acceptance. You cannot change something or evolve something until you'll accept it. You cannot. It's empire. It's literally impossible. How do you change something you don't have? How do you change something that you haven't taken into possession and say, okay, I'm going to give this back. You have to take it first. You have to. You have to accept it, brother. You have to accept it. No, you're not six foot eight. No, your bird does not connect naturally. You're. You got, you got, you got. Yeah, I see. But hey, man, you know what? Other than you and you know I'm in there somewhere, you know what I'm saying? But you know, no, you're not super tall, bro. No, you ain't come from money, bro. No. Nope. No. You're not naturally handsome. According again, I'm talking about according to society. Whatever society say, like this is real. This is. I had a real talk of myself a long time ago. As men, two of the hardest things you have to accept is your height and your dick size. Accept it, brother. Hey, accept it. And I use that when I say that to people, when to me and only laugh. But I'm like, no, I'm being for real. Because once you accept these things, you learn how to either. Either change it, love it. You only got two options, brother. Change it or love it. I've seen the most again. I've seen men with that according to society. Ain't this, ain't that. But they the most confident. They got everything they need in the world. Most happiest man ever. It ain't. It's the acceptance part. It's confidence. Come from acceptance. Confidence come from spending enough time with yourself in the mirror. Acceptance is powerful, bro. Come from poverty, brother. I come from poverty. You heard me. I don't come from the. The nicest things I don't come from. I'm five foot ten. But when I walk in a room, I am taller than everybody in life. Not because it's this, bro. It's this acceptance, bro. Accept it. Accept it. Because the more you fight against acceptance, you're never going to be able to change it or love it. Never.

It's like the way I've framed it for myself is like having to come more fully into contact with reality. The way that it actually is, not the way that I want it to be. And. And letting the illusion actually die. You know, letting the perspective of like, oh, this is how I really. I want it to be. This. I wish it was that way. I wish it could be this way. But then it's almost like something happens when we make a more kind of direct contact with reality as it is, you know, like it does something to us. It really, really does something to us.

Yes, bro.

It's. I think what you're saying is. Is so important. It's. And it's really hard. So many dudes I work with, they're like, but you know, because we're so rational, it's like, but how? Like give me the five step program of like how I accept it. And it's like, well, I don't know if there is like a program because.

It'S because the acceptance is an energy. But when you realize acceptance is an energy and you embody that, then you realize that everything else is energy. Money. Money's not real, bro. What? This piece of paper, it's an energy, bro. It's not real. Love is an energy, bro. It's not real. It's something that is something outside of you, but it's something that's in you too. It's something that attracts something. It's something you that attract. That attracts something else. Once I realized, I said, oh, hold on. So I can have any. I can have, bro. I can. I can go anywhere I want in this world. Now, the getting there, the practical part. Yeah, that's a separate conversation, brother. Yeah, but first, before we can get to that part, before we can, I think that, that that's what happens to us as men. Like you say, the rational, you know, it'll all get jumbled up, bro. And now the. The what, when, the where, the why, the how is all jumbled up. You know what I'm saying? You know, you gotta find the way. What's the way, aj? Who are you? No, what's the way? Who are you? W A y. Who are you, man? Show me the way. Who are you? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's in you, though. I'm trying to direct you back to yourself, man. Show me the. I'm directing you back to you. Because it's all starts with acceptance, brother. Look yourself in the mirror. Listen, man, and have that one. You want to cry about it? Get that one cry out. Talking about that deep, cry about it. I ain't saying don't cry about other things in life, but the deep, the. When the crowd. Acceptance is a hard one. You know what I'm saying? When. When you. When you're not looking at family. Older brother, younger sister, mom, dad, Instagram this. That what they driving, what they got, how strong they are, how old? Buddy got a natural six pack over there. He got a natural bird over there. He's naturally seven foot tall. He naturally get the women. Naturally. Naturally. Naturally. I finna sit there and accept all of it. Yeah. I ain't here. Yeah. I don't come for money. Yeah. I wasn't born and on an island somewhere where I would prefer to be. Yeah. When I was. When I was a kid, I fell out of a car when I was seven years old, bro. My face hit the ground and my teeth, my teeth were damaged. When I was a kid, I had to have my teeth surgically like fixed. So I went through school with a crooked smile. There's nothing I could do about that. You hear me? I had real talks of myself. And I had a real deep cry that. A cry that probably lasted for a week. But after that cry, what. Who came out of that was a dude that accepted everything. And I said, I'm gonna do one or two things, I'm gonna change it or I' ma love it. And all this that people see, it comes from that place. It comes from acceptance, bro. I come from telling you as men, you gotta accept it, bro, because you can't do nothing about it. And if you can do something about it, then do something about it. But we're not gonna stand in the middle of the road. And, and, and now you don't love yourself. Now you questioning. You're questioning now your mental health hanging a balance, bro. Now you don't know if you could be loved. Now you don't know if you could be respected. And now you, you stepping outside of your ordained path and your ordained journey as a man because you know you haven't accepted shoe. That is the most powerful thing I've ever done, bro. And now the peace that comes from acceptance, the confidence, what's for me is for me. You know what I'm saying? I don't chase, I attract. You know, I'm transparent. I use my testimony, my authenticity. And now I can't remember, I can't tell you, last time I was lacking something. Can't tell you, bro. I don't even know love. No, I can get, you know, relationship, money, friends, family. And not because I'm perfect, anything, but because I've accepted what's for me. This is. This is for me. That is not, you know what I'm saying? And I think that lust, lust of life, not just the lust like physical lust, but like the lust of life is what will put us, what will entrap us as men and trap and trap us as man. It will trap you, it will grab you by the leg and keep you there because you jumping over hurdles to rushing to chase something that's not for you. And when you spent you, you spent three, four years chasing that only to realize it ain't for you. We've done it. We've done. We've not valued ourselves enough and spent years with a woman that doesn't love us. We work jobs that don't pour into our family, I mean, pour into our vision, our goals. And we've hung around men that don't reflect who we are. We've done the same things that women have done, bro. Only thing we didn't do is get a bbl. You know, we can't bbl our life, bro. You can't bbl it. If they, now, if they do got that out here, I don't know. But you can't bbl that, bro. So that's the only thing we haven't done. Because I feel like if we could, we'd be out here doing it too. Because we battle with the same stuff, bro. It's just, it looks different. It's mask, you know, it's, it's, it's hidden more. It's not as emotional. Yeah. I mean, we may not cry out in the open, you know what I'm saying? We, you know, we crawl inside and. But acceptance, bro, Acceptance is the most powerful thing that I ever did, bro, while everybody was teaching. Yeah. You go out here and do this and you become, you become this. You become a millionaire overnight. You become this. Go to the gym and become a bot. Become that. Become, become, yeah. After you excelled, after you excel, bro. Because if you get all that without accepting, it ain't gonna matter. You could, you could have everything you want in front of you. Money, writer, the fine girl right there, you know, I mean the, the career right here, the followers, and still be unhappy, not at peace, not loving yourself. Probably all because acceptance.

It'S almost like survival for a lot of men replaces self understanding, you know, and that they, that a lot of us grow up in this mode of you have, you just need to survive. Which. Yeah, you know, I think in, in many ways it just, it's like different iterations in different environments. And I remember being like 18, 19, and I bought a thousand cc motorcycle, you know, sport bike, and I saved the money. You know, this is, I don't think I've ever said this before. Like I was working construction and I knew nothing about money. I basically had like a checking account and a, you know, terrible credit card. And so my version of saving was just putting cash into a Ziploc bag underneath my mattress. And so I saved up enough work construction, just like taking cash out, putting a Ziploc bag, putting it underneath my mattress, and I bought this motorcycle. And you know, in many ways it was like me like testing death. You know, I had no right riding that thing, but I was always just trying to like push an edge because I was just in survival mode all the time. You know, I was just in survival mode and there really wasn't a lot of self understanding. And I think for a lot of men that's, that's the case. It's like I'm just trying to get by. I'm just trying to make the living. I'm just trying to pay the bills and I'm just trying to make this relationship work. And, and we're just like stuck, you know, so many men are just stuck in survival mode and it's, I think what you're saying is, is really important because you're, you're kind of illuminating a possible pathway of like, hey, when you start to turn the light towards yourself and you start this journey of self discovery and self understanding a lot, it pulls you out. It's almost like the branch that pulls you out of the quicksand that's, you know, dragging you underneath.

Yeah.

Is that, am I getting that?

No, that's, that's, that's 100% right, bro. And, and it just, unfortunately it takes us so long to do it. You know what I mean? Like it, some of us, it, it takes. That's why, you know, there's this, you know, you know, people say women mature faster than men and you know, I, Yeah, but they don't say the why part. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, this idea of maturity is what, you know, I've, I know for me, I've had to be a man since I was a kid. I definitely had to be a man. So I was a kid, you know what I'm saying? And I mean, man as in, I mean whether that's. I had to be a protector, I have to be a provider in a sense. I've had to be a leader, man. I want to be a kid, bro. I can't, I. That got stripped very early. It's like, nah, now I need you to stand up for yourself. I could barely stand up. I'm six, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't like we being. Stand up for myself, you know, I mean like, can I evolve naturally and get to these places? No, not according to society, you know, I mean, you gotta, you gotta do. And you know, I always say in my shows, you know, you know, this world wants you to do. Do we ask each other, what are you doing? What are you doing? You know, but we are human beings, not human doings, you know what I'm saying? And I think we forget to be. And especially as men, we get less time to be, man. You know, I mean like, like, you know, I just started, I mean, I think like a year or so ago, I was, I was with this, this chick and she said, what do you like to do for fun? What fun? What's that? You know what I'm Saying. And she was like, what do you like to do? And I. I really, bro, had to think about that, you know what I'm saying? I know what I. I know what I do, like, make money my pet, you know, my. My career, my goals outside of it, bro. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, And I really had to sit with that. I think a lot of men, we lose sight of that. Some of us come into it later on, you know what I mean? And again, I just pray that we. We are, when we come into it, that we're around the right environment to help us water that. Because if not, then, you know, we can feel. We can start feeling inadequate, we can start feeling inferior, we can start feeling invaluable, you know what I mean? Because what was once fun is like, you know, you get into the wrong environment and they'll make you think that you not doing something right, you know what I'm saying? Because you're not producing enough or, you know, you know, you ain't got enough money, you know what I'm saying? You're not. You ain't doing this enough. You're not doing this enough. It's like, man, I just found my foot in, you know, I mean, so that survival, that survival mode is. Is important, man.

And.

We get to a place. I'll speak for myself, you know, get to a place. Where I'm at now is I finally reached that place. I'm 36, though. I just got here. This place of like, oh, you know what I'm saying? Like, what was I doing in my twenties, surviving the whole time, fighting for my life mentally, emotionally, because people get it twisted. It's not about money. Rob middle people so, so rich that all they have. They. What the quote say you're so. You're so poor, all you have is money or something. It was. It was the idea of, like, that's all you have. Like, I've met people that got money. That's still sad, you know what I'm saying? And men that, that, that drive a nice car but don't know where to go in it or don't know who to put in it or don't know.

How to drive it.

Don't know how to nothing, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, bro, so it's. It's the journey of finding a deeper meaning of life, A deeper. A deeper sense of self, you know, and. And speaking life into yourself, you know. I've been called an asshole more this time. This on this side of my life than I was before when I was an asshole. I'm asshole now because I prioritize myself. I have boundaries. I say no, you heard me. I choose. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not pulled to and fro by, you know, by sex. Like, I've learned how to retain and master. I'm not perfect at it. I'm not even gonna get on her a lot. But. But I. It's a muscle that I've been building over time. And that muscle is getting stronger. You heard me? And I just want to let men know that that is a muscle you can grow. Boundaries, self love, you know what I mean? Autonomy, internal peace. You know what I'm saying? Your relationship with God is a relationship with yourself. You know what I'm saying? You know? And it's okay to do that before you give it away to somebody else. It is okay. But I started doing. I wake up super early, bro. I wake up at like 4. I'm like 4:40, you know what I'm saying? Like, I like to wake up when nobody's up, you know, so to speak. I know there's people up, but. And that time is for me. I don't pick up my phone. I don't want to talk to nobody. I don't see nobody. That time for me, when I do have kids and a wife, I'm gonna do the same thing. Same thing. Will it be more challenging? Sure. But I'm gonna go into it the same way. Hey, I need this. I need this hour to myself. I need this time for me. I don't think about nobody after that. Then, hey, I'm here. What's up? But I. But some men find it selfish to even prioritize something for themselves. I'm a dad, You're a human. I'm a husband, you're a human. I go to work. You gotta work on yourself, you know? Like, what? Are you okay? Because how can you. How can you still be here later? Like, how? You know what I mean? And that's just. That's just what I've been practicing, bro. And it's been life changing for me. You know what I mean? Because nobody's gonna give permission to do that again. I hope that we get the bright people around that pour into that part of us. Can't bank on it, you know what I'm saying? But it's beautiful if you get it. You are blessed. Are you blessed, you know, to hear a woman say, take time for yourself? What? That's a Blessing, you know what I'm saying? What do you want to do today that's a blessing, bro. What? That's not common. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you are blessed for you. Blessed. You heard me? Like, you got to count your blessings. If you get. If you get a. If you get a woman in your life that asks you what you. What do you care about? Like, what do you think? You know what I mean? And again, I'm not saying they're not out here like that, but society doesn't look at us that way. As men in general, we are doers, we are action oriented. We show up, and we do feel okay, you know what I'm saying? If you want to, but I need you to do this, you know, so. Yeah, yeah.

It's one of the. One of the practices that I've given men in the past is like having a. Creating a practice of enoughness, of noticing what's already enough in your life right now and.

And then practice of enoughness as part.

Yeah, just like, can that be enough? What you just did can just be enough. You know, where you're at right now in life, financially, physically, can just already be enough. Because I think we're so, like, you know, we're in this constant attempt of trying to get somewhere that we never are. And that's the state that most men are in. We're trying to do our way into being someone somewhere that. That we're not in the moment, but it never arrives because we get there and we have another thing that we need to do.

Yeah.

And it's never enough. And it's shocking for how many men. They're not enough. Their life's not enough. They can't lift enough. They don't have enough money in the bank. It's like there's. There's no enoughness that exists in their life. And it's just. It's tragic. I mean, you know, I think for a lot of guys, it's one of the reasons why they really, really struggle. You know, it's like nothing's enough in their life. And I think that. I think many of us are raised like that, you know, and there's a whole other conversation about why that is. And sometimes it's useful, you know, to. To push ourselves. But I do think that there comes a point in life where that mode of operating has a net negative impact on your soul and on and on your mind and on your heart and on your body, where you're just like. You're wringing yourself out of life force.

And energy and, you know, and. And. And with that, what happens, even inadvertently, we project. So now, because you don't feel like you're enough, we project that onto those around us, you know what I mean? I do think that some of the things. A lot of the things that society has going on, especially even with women, is because we're not in our rightful place as men, you know, and seeing ourselves again as enough, as leaders, as loved as, you know, so. And we. We tend to project onto the weaker vessels, you know, to where they question the same thing, you know what I'm saying? They change. They hold everything, you know what I'm saying? Because they don't feel like they enough. It's like, where they get that from us? Where we get that from y'? All? So it's like, you know, it's. But I. I agree, man. I. I like how you said that, though. You know, I'm saying that the spirit of enoughness, because that's something I battle with, you know, I'm always doing, you know, I mean, but. But, you know, the songs and the stuff that I. The messages, stuff that I say is how I remind myself that's how it became songs. You know, a lot of my stuff started as journal entries, bro. I didn't. You know, it's rather like going to studio and say, oh, yeah, I'm gonna make a song that sound like this. No, it starts with something I said to myself, and then it just. I just kept writing and it came into a song. But I've been practicing that, you know, I've been doing a lot of traveling this year. I've been six countries this year, and I've just been going, bro. You know, I mean, just going, you know what I'm saying? I started solo traveling early this year. You know, just go. You know, I mean, just go see. Go see. Go see the world. And, you know, I mean, and it's been powerful for me, bro, coming from where I'm telling you I'm from, you know, 10 block radius, food, desert, you know, gunshots, you know, prostitutes, gangs. And to be able to go to a whole nother island, bro, and just put your feet in some water. What? Powerful, bro. So it's so powerful, man. And, you know, I just. I think I thank God for my life, man. It's. You know, it has its challenges, bro, because I know that I'm called. I'm chosen for something, for greatness. So it's. It has its days and, you know, where things get heavy, but when things get heavy. I say somebody, I set up a boundary, I communicate, I get vulnerable. This idea of masculinity has become such a. A wicked. A wicked idea to. To an extent, you know what I mean? To where you so masculine that you don't. You don't know how to nurture yourself and you know, how to, you know, be there for yourself, you know, I mean, and so I. I'm in that place to where I show up for. Me first. Me first. What about everybody else? Me first. You know what I'm saying? Me first. And then I promise you, I'm. I'm right there for everybody else. But mentally, you gotta check in on you. How are you holding so much space for everybody else? You know, but also read the Bible, you know, in. In Genesis, you know, when God created, You know, God created everything. And, you know, he created Adam. His first task, his first thing he told Adam was go name the animals. You know, this is idea that God made man and woman. No, that's not how it happened, actually. You heard me. He. He made Adam and said. And gave Adam some animals and sin said, go name the animals. Tend to. Tend to the garden, tend to the land. And then it was after all of that that he got. Was like, I don't see no suitable help. And then made woman. And the reason why this, the context is important because it. It's. Without it, without it contextually being said, it makes it seem like God was like, okay, cool. Man and woman. Listen here y' all go. Nah, nah. And I take that as, you know, when I read that and when I. What I understand from that is, you know, this. This idea that we have to have a vision, a purpose, you know, first, because it. It's not going to make sense after that. And you can learn on the fly, but just know you're going to hurt a lot of. You're going to hurt yourself. You're gonna hurt a lot of people. You're gonna. You're gonna take some big losses that you don. If you. If you, you know, prioritize your purpose and your passions and your own self first. And it sounds so bad when you say it. It sounds harsh. It sounds anti people. I know, but it's not. It's not. It's actually the most healthiest thing you could do because you're called to lead. You know what I'm saying? You call to lead the people you caught the die for the weaker vessels. So you need a little more than they need. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I think it's like, like the. I really think that in its highest form, leadership from a man is, Is servant based.

Yes, bro.

And, you know, I think it's like, how can you serve others when you are so poorly serving yourself? And that's a hard lesson I had to learn because I was woefully underserved by myself. You know, I was, I was, you know, abusive to myself, beating myself up, treating my body terribly, you know, drinking, drugs, and it. And it really was. It really wasn't until I started to, you know, treat myself in the way that I was attempting to treat other people.

Yeah.

That things really started to shift.

Yeah.

And it does sound like the last piece I want to just get into, AJ is. It does sound like faith and, and spirituality really play a big role.

Yeah.

In your life. It shows up, I know, sometimes in your music, but maybe just a couple words on, on how you found your way there and, and maybe the influence, the impact that that's had on you.

Yeah, bro, man, faith is, you know, faith is my foundation, bro. Like, my, you know, it's. It's my foundation. It's, you know, I. I mean, I'm. I met God on my back, you know, when I got shot, bro, I thought. I thought I know what was gonna happen, but I didn't think I was gonna make it that night, you know what I'm saying? There's a lot going on, and that's when I knew that, you know, that something or somebody was protecting me. Because how. Right. And when I look at my life, you know, I've always. I look at moments, I'm like, man, God had to be protecting me, you know, I mean, because it was too much that happens, too much that was going on, you know? And, you know, I have. My foundation is Christian, you know, so I have a Christian foundation. I wouldn't consider myself a Christian these days, though. And a lot of people get that confused. It'd be funny seeing people implode when I say that, as you know. But I believe in the gospel, though. You know what I'm saying? I believe in. I believe in the gospel. I believe in Jesus, all that. You know what I'm saying? Like, for sure. I, I. But my faith is more holistic than it is linear. This idea of religion and, and boxing us up into this box, and I don't. That's not what I do. You know what I'm saying? You know, I believe that God is in all things. You know, I believe that God is in the grass the same way he's in the church. I just believe the same thing. I believe that, you know, you know, taking care of homeless, the fatherless, the. The mentally, you know, ill, you know, the broken, you know, being a giver. You heard me. You know, being philanthropic, being humanitarian, all that's God's me, you know, I mean, and I'm anchored by that. I'm anchored by those truths. You know, the Bible said, the greatest among you shall be your servant. So service is literally how. While I. Why I believe I'm great because I serve. You know, I mean, I've learned so much from. From different walks of faith, though, you know. Different. Yeah, different walks of faith, whether it be Islam, whether it be, you know, supreme mathematics, whether it be all these different things, you know, and. But all of it did. All it did was brought me closer to the gospel, you know what I'm saying? If I'm being honest, you know, I mean, you know, but. But I don't. I don't deem it some negative. Some negative things, me personally, because it all brought me back to. It made it made my faith much stronger, you know, now, so I don't subscribe to a specific religion, however, you know, my way of life. I'm a Rastafarian, so, you know, my way of life and the way I see life and the way I see the world and how I approach things is in a way, you know, that, you know, it's more holistic. It's more true in nature to me, and. But I'm never ashamed of my faith, bro. Ever, ever. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, out here in the world, though, you know, it doesn't fit a lot of people's. It doesn't check a lot of people's boxes, you know what I'm saying? They just be like, man, so, you know, what. What do you believe? I believe in God. What God, you know, leave me alone, man. Like, you know, leave me alone. I don't get off into all of that, man. You know, I've been an apologist before. I've been a theologian. I've read the Bible to and fro, you know what I'm saying? With a Greek concordance and a Hebrew dictionary. I've done all of it, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of it left me empty, you know, because I was trying to earn something that was for me already, you know? I mean, I just had to walk into it, you know what I'm saying? And you know, that I don't do. I don't do the the spiritual Olympics, man. And, you know, I'm trying to try to keep up with who's the most wrong, you know what I'm saying? Like, I need grace and mercy every single day, brother. Every single day, man. I need grace and mercy, bro. Man, I need grace, mercy every day. So I'm anchored by truth, bro, and authenticity, you know what I mean? And God uses me more these days than ever because I'm really being my real self. I'm being my raw self, dog. And God's like, yeah, that's. That's the person I want to speak to. Me. And I just, you know, I go out here, man. I use my art and my. And my creativity and, you know, whatever. Whatever's on my spirit to say. That's what I say. And that's how. That's how I serve the most high. And, you know, I'm really big on philanthropy, though, bro. Like, I believe in giving, man. We gotta give, bro. We have to give, man. How you treat. How you treat those without nothing, though, how you treat those who can't do anything for you, that's God, you know what I'm saying? Like, how we treat people, bro, it's important. None of this, none of this means it don't matter how much, you know, no matter how many books you can quote, how many scriptures, how much you go. You pray and go to church, bro, you treat people bad no matter, man. You know, I mean, so that's how my faith set up, bro. And I believe it. I believe in that 100. And that's what guides me to being who I am and to having a vision that I have, you know, for other people. So it.

Good stuff, man. Good stuff. Reminds me, the Alan Watts quote that I really loved in, I think it was in his book the Wisdom of Insecurities. And he said, belief clings, faith allows, or faith lets go. And I feel like it's a good summary of our conversation and. And a big part of your life and your message. And so I really appreciate your time, man. I appreciate you coming on and just sharing your life with me and your wisdom and your experience and yeah, man, I really appreciate it and I really hope that everybody, you know, goes. We'll have some links to your work, to your music in the show notes and so people can just go take a listen and. And I really hope that everybody out there man it forward. Share this episode share AJ's music I really think that he's doing something phenomenal.

Thank you, brother.

So, man, thank you so much for coming, man.

Thanks for what you're doing, too.

Got it. Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Peace.