Processing Absent Father Grief

All right, my friend. Welcome to the Man Talk Show. How you doing today?

I'm really good, man.

I'm really, really good. Yeah.

Good, good. Looking forward to our conversation today. Obviously, you and I know each other a little. A little bit.

Yeah.

We do a little bit here and there.

Yeah. A little bit of peanut butter affiliation.

Early on a Saturday morning. That's right. That's right. We're going to be. That's our next venture. Man Talks is going to get into the. The peanut butter. Peanut butter enterprises, which apparently is a very lucrative market. Dark roast, crunchy edition. If you know, you know.

Yeah, if you know, you know for sure, change the world, man. It would be a good peanut butter.

Yes. Yes, it would. All right, tell me a little bit about what you were looking to work on tackle. Take me into the. The corners of the psyche that you'd like to explore today.

Yeah, beautiful. Thank you, man. I appreciate the invitation and honor to be. To be here.

I guess.

Something that, you know, considering, like what do I want to explore, where do I want to go? There's a few pieces that I could pull on. There's a few corners, and I think I'd like to just mention a few of them and just see where we go, if that's cool. Sure. Yeah. So one of them is a little bit more nuanced, but it's something that I notice, which is.

I like.

An over responsibility and an over. Pretty interesting. It came up yesterday in a totally fine way, in a conversational way, which is why it's kind of brought it to my attention.

Around having to be both parents for my daughter, who is my daughter from my. From my separation. And I have a new amazing partner and we have a great relationship and we have a really beautiful little blended family. But I still find myself taking on all of the responsibility for my daughter because her mother doesn't really do anything. She's a good mum to her. But all the things like my daughter's birthday is coming up and it's all on me. And I find it. I notice that I find it hard to.

See any other pathway other than it's all on me, like even sharing with my. With my fiance, even like in those dynamics in the way that we currently live our life. So that's something that, you know, it's. I'm aware of and it's become aware, but I don't really have clarity on that or whether it's. Or way to moves. Ways to move around it, because it does affect.

It does affect Maddie. It does affect my Fiance. Because of the way that our relational dynamic works, right. It's kind of like a. In the way that she worded it, it's a, you've got to invite me in. And sometimes I don't even know that I'm not. So that's kind of one little avenue that is just, I guess, top of mind because it's relevant. Her birthday's next week, you know.

And.

And then the other is kind of a little bit more elusive. And I don't think it's a. It's. I mean, you asked me to take you into the corners, but around.

It's around my dad and.

Sort of the. Kind of my parents in general, but around the sort of acceptance of. And the.

The connection to the fact that he's not here anymore. I feel quite distant from that. I feel okay about it as well. And I don't necessarily think this is a. This doesn't mean it's a bad thing or there's anything wrong there. I'm not judge myself for it or anything. But I am curious. I am curious as to tell why a man that I do that, you know, I do love and I do look up to, and I really appreciate it in my life. And, you know, we had differences, and there are obviously always things that I wanted that I now know I wanted more of, you know, but there's also an internal feeling of like.

I guess it's a personal judgment of, do I. Why don't I. Why don't I miss him more?

And I don't know whether that's even really a thing. I just communicate. I'm just sharing that. That's kind of like an inner dialogue that sometimes comes up, which gets me. Which makes me question myself. Because when I think about him and I think about that space in our lives and. And the time together, I have a lot of love for him. And I can look at it, I can see that and hold a lot of reverence for the man he was. And I feel who he is that comes through me and the way I show up in the world. And I'm really grateful for that relationally in the way that he is as a man. And there's also a part of that is like, oh, I don't feel connected to him or who he was as much as maybe I could or should. And there's that, you know, proverbial should. So I go.

And my memory of that is. What I remember of it is that.

There wasn't ever aggression or anything from my dad, but there was also not really? Any mediation, it was just explosive blowup, and then it was just, you have to go over there.

And I felt like a lot of it. Like, I felt like it was all my fault.

So where was your dad when the conflict between you and your mom was happening?

He was either at work or he'd come home into it.

Okay, and then. And then what? What would he do? What would he say? How would he act?

He would tell me that I was this and I was there, and it was all 99 of the time. It was siding with my mum no matter what.

Okay.

Okay. How did that land for you?

Not heard, not seen, disregarded, not important.

Okay. All right. Tell me a little bit more about the connection between you and your mom.

Back then or now?

No, back then.

Connection with my mom back then was.

From a very early age. I was always too much. There was always, you're too much, you're being too much. You're too full on. You're too this, you're too that. You need to be more like that.

There was a lot of. A lot of criticism, a lot of judgment, a lot of.

A lot of what I can only, like, recall or feel is, like, tension consistently.

And that conflict would. Would escalate based on, like, tone or being told what to do or being talked down to. Things like that. A lot of it was pushed back and.

You know, lots of yelling. Lots of yelling. Lots of yelling. Lots of passive aggression.

Yeah.

Take another breath in and just say what's happening inside of you as you're talking about some of this stuff is your whole breathing pattern just changed. You got tense in the chest.

Yeah. So there's tension in my chest. There's a. There's a weight in the upper part of my abdomen.

My shoulders are sort of tightening across my shoulder blades. Okay. And I have like a.

I have sort of like a pressure in my.

Central chest towards my throat.

Okay. See what the pressure is about. Just breathe into it for a moment.

Just stay connected to the pressure.

And just make a statement from that place.

What's coming up is like, my words were never enough. Me being a high testosterone boy, young man, and wanting to do whatever I wanted and.

Not really having the discipline and the structure and the. Well, I say discipline. Discipline for me was used as a disciplinarian way. So discipline wasn't. Wasn't what I know it is now. It was very much. I was grounded for months at a time. Things like that. Controlling, overbearing. And so the conflict became very, very volatile. Lots of aggression, verbally, vocally, Loud energy, screaming doors, things like that. And then being confined to and, you know, grounded and locked in a room and things like that.

And my memory of that is, what I remember of it is that.

There wasn't even aggression or anything from my dad, but there was also not really any mediation. It was just explosive blow up. And then it was just, you have to go over there.

And I felt like a lot of it, like, I felt like it was all my fault.

So where was your dad when the conflict between you and your mom was happening?

He was either at work or he'd come home into it.

Okay, and then. And then what? What would he do? What would he say? How would he act?

He would tell me that I was this and I was there and it was all 99 of the time. It was siding with my mum no matter what.

Okay.

Okay. How did that land for you?

Not heard, not seen, disregarded, not important.

Okay. All right, Tell me a little bit more about the connection between you and.

Your mom back then or now?

No, back then.

Connection with my mom back then was.

From a very early age. I was always too much. There was always, you're too much, you're being too much, you're too full on, you're too this, you're too that. You need to be more like that.

There was a lot of. A lot of criticism, a lot of judgment, a lot of.

A lot of what I can only like, recall or feel is like tension consistently.

And that conflict would. Would escalate based on, like, tone or being told what to do or being talked down to, things like that. A lot of it was pushed back and.

Yeah, lots of yelling. Lots of yelling, Lots of yelling. Lots of passive aggression.

Yeah. Take another breath in and just say what's happening inside of you as you're talking about some of this stuff is your whole breathing pattern just changed. You got tense in the chest.

Yeah, so there's tension in my chest. There's a. There's a weight in the upper part of my abdomen.

My shoulders are sort of tightening across my shoulder blades.

Okay.

And I have like a.

I have sort of like a pressure in my.

Central chest towards my throat.

Okay, say what the pressure is about. Just breathe into it for a moment.

Just stay connected to the pressure.

And just make a statement from that place.

What's coming up is like my words were never enough. What I said was never enough. What I did was never enough. And.

My voice was never heard. Like my.

Yeah.

So let yourself be affected by that for a moment.

My voice was never heard. I Was never enough. Nothing I did was enough. It sounds like a lot of pressure that you experienced growing up as a boy.

So breathe into it. Another deep breath.

And just say a few words. From this pressure.

To your dad.

It doesn't feel like you care.

I needed you to hear me.

To.

Even give me the time of day.

To protect me.

I wasn't important.

And I needed to. I needed you to make me feel like I was.

At times when it mattered, not just when you thought it mattered.

I needed you to listen to me.

Good.

Breathe into that. No. And just again, let yourself be impacted by what you're saying.

I'm just going to maybe reframe it in one way and you just see how it lands.

Okay.

Dad, you made me feel like I wasn't even there.

Yeah.

Yeah. A wave of sensation from my head, down through my shoulders, a minute down the right side of my body and then across to my left pelvis.

So breathe in to that. Just let it be there. And if you're okay with it, or if you want, you don't have to do anything. But maybe just trying to say that directly to him.

Then it made me feel like I wasn't even there.

And so I left.

So I left.

Really let that do something to you.

That's brutal.

And breathe into it. You're doing good.

Say what's happening inside of you as you let that land.

I still have the letter. What's happening inside of me is just this.

Rumbling.

I still have the letter that he wrote me.

As, like, a ultimatum. When I left, he wrote me two letters.

One was.

Telling me all of the things that I was not doing that were not okay in the way that I was being and that I had to change. Otherwise it didn't work and I had to leave.

And I was given an ultimatum. As my mom had said, it's either me or him that leaves. And this letter came as a byproduct of that.

And then after I left, he wrote me another letter telling me what I was allowed to and what I wasn't allowed to do while I was gone.

And it's just interesting. Both those things just flashed into my mind as that rumble, as that rumbling was there. And the rumbling feels just like a you.

So stay with that.

Pretty early where you are, and I don't know how much privacy you have.

Good, great.

So just let yourself connect to the rumbling.

And breathe into it. Breathe into your belly.

If you want. You can breathe in and out through your mouth.

And just make a statement from that rumbling.

You didn't even fight for me.

Which made me feel like I wasn't worth fighting for.

Another deep breath. What would that actually sound like?

It's like a.

It's like the feeling is, like, throwing my arms up in the air and just being like this.

I feel tight in my lower abdomen.

So embody that a little bit. Let yourself do that. Put the arms up. Just say this.

Us. Oh.

You for.

You.

You for letting me just walk away.

And you for creating the situation where I had to.

Fuck you for being such a little.

So take a breath.

You for being so much.

Just let it out in a little bit of a sound on the exhale. It's very contained. It's very contained.

Are you worried about hurting his feelings? Are you worried about offending him?

Yeah, I think there is a bit of that. Yep. There's a bit of that. There's a bit of, like, restraint because of.

The image that's come to mind is, like, him here and then my mom in the background really overbearing the attitude on the situation.

Take a breath. Good job. Good work. Stay with it.

Yeah. So you needed him to protect you from her?

Yeah, Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. And the only time I saw his spine was when she got so aggressive to me in the final days. And I was standing in front of her, yelling at her, what are you gonna do? Hit me? And she started hitting me. And he stood in between us and he yelled at me for it.

Saying, how dare I do that to my mother while she was hitting.

Say what's happening inside. Say what's happening.

I think that's where I've really just lost all respect for him.

What's happening is I just have this void of, like.

Almost feel like that's the moment where I was. I'm done with you.

Seriously. Like, this is this. Is it, like. Yeah, aggression, some shit. But come on, bro.

Seriously.

Sounds like it's the moment that you realize that you were alone and that no one was protecting you.

Yeah. Yeah, that tracks. And then every other time he tried to be there for me later in life, I just didn't trust it.

I remember exactly where I was.

An old house.

And just kind of.

Gave up on him.

Another breath. You're doing good.

There's a lot of resentment and anger.

Yeah, there is.

And it sounds like you've had to protect your father.

From how you actually felt.

Yeah. And when I shared, interestingly, when I shared a little bit of this anger about him a long time ago, just after he passed away.

My mum found out, and she Attacked me for it.

Another breath. Keep breathing.

Just notice every single time you talk about your mom and her aggression, your whole body clamps up.

Could you feel that before?

Yeah, absolutely.

So just take another deep breath for me.

You have a son in your life?

Yeah, I have a five year old steep son.

Maybe just make a statement about what you would do if you saw his mother treating him the way that your mother treated you.

I would step in and stop her behavior.

And I would take him away from him.

And I've done that.

Breathe in. Good work. Let yourself be affected by what you're saying.

I needed somebody to protect me.

Yeah. I needed somebody to protect me.

And I needed to know that I was worth protecting.

And I needed to know that I was worth protecting.

Another breath. Just say what's happening.

It's a bit of hate. And with a movement of energy up through my body when my jaw just clenched as I finished that statement.

Not in resistance to it, but more just.

Like, kind of like a. For fuck's sake. Energy.

We'll say that like for sake. Seriously, like how.

How disconnected and how.

So self absorbed and consumed does one have to be, does a man have to be to not.

Protect.

Inside his family?

Have you ever let yourself actually feel the full.

Tilt, the full scale anger and.

Rage that you feel towards him or the grief that you feel towards him for not stepping in and protecting you in that way? Have you ever let yourself really go there?

Not towards my dad. I haven't ever had the.

Environment or the support to do that. I have with my mum, really. And there's been a lot of.

A lot of work through that space. But yeah, not with Dan.

Okay, well, we're just, we're going to do one more piece here. We're not necessarily. I don't think we're going to get into that part on this call. I think I know that you're. You're coming to the weekend in September and so I think that's probably a much better place to do that.

But I'm just going to make a statement for you that I think is.

Is what my gut is kind of telling me is going on.

And I just want you to see what happens inside of you. You let it hit you and if it feels true, great. If it doesn't feel true, that's okay too.

So connect to that heat in the body, that tension. For sakes. Dad.

Yeah, I got.

So.

Dad, you pretended like I wasn't there growing up.

And I'm pretending now like you're not here.

After you've passed.

You.

You acted like I wasn't around.

As a kid. And so I'm ignoring you now, even in your death.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's definitely truth to that. My head is hot. That rose from up. But I will just add one piece. That ignoring feels like it's a bit like it's. It's a. A conscious thing. It's actually less than that. It's to the point where, like.

It'S out of my mind.

The door's shut. It's not even ignoring. It's less than that. And that's. That's sad.

So put it in your own words to him.

My anger for you, my resentment towards you is so big that I won't even let you into my conscious mind.

You don't get to occupy any space in here. That's how angry I am with you.

Yeah, that feels true.

My anger and my resignment.

Towards you.

Has shut the door on you even being here.

And I see you and I reminded of you, and you're just like a passing ship in the harbor that I don't have to. I'm not even.

You don't even get any boarding time. That's it.

Some of their breath.

And just let your awareness drop down into your heart, down into your chest.

And see if you can allow. And this might sound strange at first, but see if you can allow some of that anger to move in and through the heart.

Actually letting your heart be affected by.

The resentment and the anger that you have carried for him, towards him.

That's heavy.

Say it again.

Yeah, it was very dense.

So just keep letting that in.

And say why it feels so heavy.

Because I miss him.

And I've missed him for way longer than he's been gone.

To allow that into my heart acknowledges the fact that.

The fleeting moments of him trying to be there my whole life was still not enough because.

I didn't trust it. And I didn't. I didn't. It wasn't relatable. It wasn't him actually connected to me because he disconnected to me or from me all those years ago when I left home.

That's sad.

So another breath.

As a father.

All I want you to know is that I would have never allowed that to happen to you.

You were my son.

I would have never stood for that ever.

So take another breath in.

And make a statement to that boy who needed protection.

Just see him there.

Mom's yelling at him, she being aggressive. She's coming at him. He's scared.

He's trying to get big to defend himself.

He's trying to get loud to defend himself.

What's coming up is.

Is that you shouldn't have to fight like this.

It shouldn't have to always be a screaming match or.

Throwing insults, passive aggression. Like, you shouldn't have to navigate your own home on eggshells. That's not what being. That's not what growing up is all about.

It's not your shit to carry. And.

You'Re not the reason that she's feeling the way that she is, even though she makes it feel like you are.

And he's not. And your dad's not. Not here because he doesn't want to be. Even though when he gets home, it feels like he is.

Another breath.

Yeah, just try. You okay if I support you in this?

Yes.

Yeah.

Just try this on. And you can find your own words for this. You don't have to protect yourself anymore. I'll do that for you.

You don't have to protect yourself anymore.

I'll do that for you.

And let him respond back.

He said you already are.

Beauty.

Let's let that in.

Another breath. So you already are. You're already doing the thing dad couldn't do.

Yeah.

Or didn't do.

So just say what's happening inside. So I'm with you.

I have.

I'm in my bedroom, my childhood bedroom.

There's a moment at a time when I was in my early teens.

Where I was really unhappy. And there are paintings all over the wall, like, hung all over the walls of, like, crying eyes and. Pretty macabre shit. Be honest.

And I had painted my room, like, really dark colors.

I wasn't an emo before that time, but, like, this image in my mind is, like, in my room, screaming, like, internally of, like, I'm not happy. It was when I was getting bullied at school, pretty hard out, and life was really.

Sucked. It sucked at home, sucked at school. Like, it just sucked.

And.

Didn't feel like anyone was there for me. And that's the visual image that I have right now of, like, just the density and the. The weight of that for a teenage child, for, like, a young boy.

And.

My dad never saw it. They never paid attention to the pictures. They never saw the sorrow. They never believed the bullying.

It was always deflected and it was always shut down, especially by my mother and.

And I. You know, I just thought someone would do something. I hoped someone would do something. And they never did.

And they never did.

Another breath.

Yeah.

So there's a lot in there.

Yeah. And I've told my mum.

About the bullying and about that her. And even in her response, her whole response is that.

Kind of a denial of it, a sense that she knew it happened, but it wasn't able to be stopped, and I didn't want her to do anything about it. So she didn't talk to dad. So there's this whole disconnection there that's just like a dis. A sort of a disregarding of the experience that I had at that time.

Good.

So last breath, and then just make a statement about what you're taking with you from this little exercise.

The thing that's really prevalent right now that I'm taking with me is this awareness that, like, the images that. The image I have is that my dad is that I've. I've actively chosen to keep him out.

That I've distanced myself emotionally and consciously from him, even though in the last part of his life, I was his sole carer and I did everything for him, and I had all this time with him.

And psychologically, he's a ship out at sea, and I'm on the shore.

Yeah, that's the big piece that I'm the piece of that. That kind of has landed. It's like. That's why. That's why I don't feel the thing. That's why it doesn't come up, because I've actually put him out. I've put him over there.

And then the other part is like.

I'm actually.

The kind of man that would never allow that to happen to my kids. And that gives me pride.

Yeah, you did it.

Yeah, you did it.

You became the man that the boy in you needed.

Yeah.

He became the father that the boy in you needed.

Yeah. Yeah, I did.

I did. And I'm really proud of that.

And I'm sad that I'm not connected to my dad in a way that feels.

True. Just feels like it was. It's reactive, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, slowly come back in when you're ready. Take your time.

Just remember the surrounding. The lights are in the room, the desk and chair, bookshelf, everything that's around you.

So at some point, you have a choice.

Okay.

You can choose to. Now that you know where you've put him.

Right.

You've put him in the unconscious.

Yes.

Sailed that ship out to the sea. You're like, get the F out of here.

That will take its toll in one way or another.

Right.

As Jung said, until we make the unconscious conscious, it will direct our lives and we will call it face.

And so there's a lot of. There's a. There's a very deep well of anger and grief that lives in you towards your father. And it sounds like a very complicated relationship. You know, you needed him to be there. He wasn't. The one thing that stood out to me was it's. It's actually more rare. It's. I was going to say quite rare, but that's not necessarily the right terminology. It is far less likely that a boy runs away from home when a father is present. Statistically speaking, it's way less common. Generally, boys that run away from home, they do not have a father at home.

And so.

It says something to me that you left home when you did, even though your father was at home.

And that I think, to me speaks to the depth of the wounding.

And so.

My sort of two cents.

Is I think this is something that you can definitely lean into. And what I wanted to do today was to just start to bring the awareness into consciousness. This is where debt actually is inside of me. And this is what comes along with me choosing to bring this back up into my conscious mind.

Because sometimes we can try and just go straight in. And.

You didn't have a choice in him ignoring you. And I think in some ways you've been having this sort of unconscious choice to ignore him. I know you said ignore wasn't necessarily the right word, but there was sort of this unconscious like, gtfo. Get the fuck out of here.

Totally. I think, I think, I think you're right, though. I think that there's a. The ignoring is less about ignoring. I mean, the word's not right because it says that I'm doing it intentionally. Right. That's the action. But, yeah, I've just been like.

Cool.

I'm going to let you back into my conscious thoughts and I'm going to let the truth of the impact that you had on me back into my conscious mind.

Because I think you buried that.

Honestly, I think you buried that when you left home at 16.

Very, very deep.

Yep.

I think you buried it in a different way after he died.

Yeah, it's like more dirt got put on top of the casket.

So does that make sense? Okay.

Thoughts, comments, questions? For me.

No appreciation, man. Love you, brother. And appreciate your guidance. And.

Yeah, there's a lot there. And.

The. The anger, rage piece, it's interesting. It's always. The thing that you've helped highlight in this is it's always been surface or the. The accessible parts of it. I should say I have been directed towards my mother based on that. Was that. That was the action, you know, that was the really. That was the inflection point of it where the rubber met the road, where the. Where the fire burnt.

So, yeah, I appreciate you bringing light. Bring it bringing to sort of up to. Into the light. The, the anger and the rage and the resentment that's there from that time towards that. Because that's real. It's definitely. It's definitely there. And I can't really give him a call and have a chat, you know, which is. Which is part of the. Part of the. The. The distance. Right. Part of the. I'm going to put it over there.

Yeah. So I don't have to deal with it.

Yeah.

So bring it in. September.

Yep.

What I'd like for you to do in the meantime is write out.

Write out what you are genuinely pissed at him about.

Okay.

What did you actually need? What did you actually need from him that he just did not provide and be as specific as possible and let yourself connect to the depth of it. Here's what I needed from you that you didn't give me. Here's how I needed to protect you to protect me, and he didn't do it. Here's how. Here's what I needed you to know and understand about me.

You know, have you heard me talk about this term that I've coined Ghost dad?

Yeah, of course I have. Absolutely.

Sort of like that. Right? He was sort of like a ghost. He is there. He's sort of present, but there's nothing for you to really grasp onto. And when push came to shove, literally and figuratively, he's absent.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And so. Yeah.

Yeah. So write about the impact that that had on you.

And see if you. Again, this is all a choice that you get.

I thought you needed to be protected from how I felt.

And it's not to diminish and discount the relationship that you guys built when you were caring for him. I'm sure that there is fond memories from that experience and all. All that, you know, it's not to discount any of.

Yes, I understand. Totally. Just the truth of it.

Yeah.

All right. Appreciate you too, brother.

Appreciate you. And we will talk soon. Thanks for everybody for. For joining in. Don't forget to man it forward and share it to. With somebody that, you know, needs to hear the conversation. Until next week, signing off.