Raising Resilient & Confident Kids : Secrets to a Harmonious Parent-Child Relationship

How do you recommend that parents develop that competency and that capability in their kids?

I went at it like, look at mom flop.

Look at this.

Look at what I just did. It was more showing them that even as an adult, you're not supposed to get everything right. I taught them that the only failure in life is not trying. So I told my kids that. I said, if you see someone who's the most popular kid at school, guaranteed they have insecurities just like you. I was always trying to teach them that it's okay to be imperfect. I made imperfection almost beautiful. Like it's our vulnerabilities and our imperfections which connect us to people.

Foreign.

Lisa, welcome to the Man Talk show. How you doing today?

I'm doing great, Connor. Thanks very much for having me.

Yeah, thank you so much for agreeing to be on here. I, you know, a couple months ago I was scrolling through Instagram, as one does these days.

Generally exhausted.

And, and like came across one of your videos. And it was during a period where my son had just started hitting, you know, he's like three at the time, and he started to get, you know, classic three year old, right? He's a three year old boy. They have a testosterone spike between three and five. He started to get pretty, pretty wild and unruly. And your video was hilarious because it, it sounded like my son. But then it also was very, very counter to what I see a lot of online. A lot of the parenting advice online was some, somewhat, not very, but somewhat counter, which I really appreciated. I think in the video you said stop trying to be your, your child's therapist, something along those lines. And I was like, yes.

Well, what I actually say is don't be, don't do the mini therapy sessions discussing all this stuff because that's not them, that's us. The adults do that. They, they're not analyzing everything and it's inappropriate. It's just. I'm interested. You said there's a test spike at 3 to 5. I'm not a doctor or anything. I've never heard that before.

Yeah, boys, boys will go. I mean, I work with men predominantly, so I know a lot about male, male biology and psychology. But young boys between the ages of 3 and 5 will go through a kind of like a mini.

Puberty where they'll have this huge spike in testosterone and it'll act somewhat similarly to what happens. It's almost like they're going through a pre puberty and they'll have a big increase in testosterone. And so a lot of Their behavior, you know, starts to get, they start to get a little bit more wild and reckless and risk taking and all the things that we see in young boys that, that go through puberty. So.

Yeah, I've never heard that.

Yeah, it's an interesting one.

That's very, kind of, kind of makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, okay, very good.

So tell me a little bit like, let's just start broadcast. What would you say, what would you say if I asked you what you think most parents are being told that is maybe not beneficial for them helping to raise really strong, independent children?

Well, I'll be honest, I don't know what they're being told because I stay in my lane. I don't know anybody else out there teaching it. I'm very careful. I'm kid taught. But I would say the biggest challenge I'm up against in coaching is there's a lot of discussion, a lot of therapy with their kids talking about big feelings, big emotions. Kids love, language is fun and play. And I think parents are doing too much talking and not enough playing. I would say that's probably what I come across. And when I'm, I mean, I don't teach discipline as much as I teach connection. So I do teach parents how to connect with kids in their world. And I would say that's what parents are missing the most. They're so busy trying to raise their kids up to their adult level by discussing all their big feelings and big emotions. You look at a kid's face when you're doing that. Does he look more bored? I mean, come on, could he look any more bored? Come on, you know, do you really want to do that to a little three year old or, you know, they're just looking at him, yes, mommy, yes, daddy. They're agreeing with you. They're mimicking you, but they're not, it's not going in, it's not making any difference whatsoever. But you, you say to that kid, oh look, that was bad. Here's your consequence. You can clean a window now. Do you want to go to the park? Look at the difference. Are you going to get good behavior out of that kid or the one that you sit and lecture? So it's all the lecturing, the nagging, the berating them about the bad behavior. There's too much focus on what they do wrong and not enough on just connecting. That would say I, I would say that's probably the biggest thing I come up against in coaching.

You mentioned that you don't really teach discipline, you teach connection. Can you Just say more about the importance of that and why, why that specifically?

Okay. I took me years to figure this out, but I thought, what is I teach leadership parenting. I just made this up myself. So what it is, is I thought, how do I explain this relationship? Because I was an crazy, goofy mother and my mom used to always say, how do you do that? You're just insane. You're running around the house with underpants on your head, chasing the kids, but they respect you. And I didn't know how to answer that. But when you're connected with kids in their world, they feel great about themselves. That's my goal with kids. I want them to have really, really high self esteem and feel wonderful about themselves. If I'm the source of that, how are they going to treat me? So it's not about getting them to like you, it's about getting them to like themselves. And when you're the source of that, they are all over you. They just want to be around you. They want to please you. That's what you're aiming for. You want to make them feel good. You don't want them to feel remorse and I'm sorry, you don't want to go down that shaming road. There's too much of that. I think that's the thing I see the most also. But I would equate my style most to a sports coach. It's a bit more personal. It's not like teaching. A huge portion of my clients are teachers, principals and child psychologists, which I couldn't do their jobs and they're learners. That's why they hire me, because they want to learn as much as possible too. So it's not that they're struggling more, but they try to apply those same skills in their business. At home, parenting is different. But a sports coach is more personal and a sports coach is fun. And you look, have you ever had a really good coach? Someone that just makes you feel great and. But they still have rules. And you want to please that coach, right? And you, you want to, you can't wait to get to the game because you like the coach. He makes you feel good. That's sort of what I, I always aim for with kids, with parents is that same relationship.

I love that a lot. I think that's one of the reasons why I resonate with your message. Because I've noticed in my son, I mean, my son loves playing with me. You know, in the morning it's trains and he's got these stuffed animals he calls his friends, right? Like the, the Dragon and the little lion. I'm always the, the lion. And he's got his dragon and the puppy dog. And we put them in a circle and we talk and we have friend time and you know, snuggle with them and then they, and then we wrestle. And after I'm done work, we wrestle. That's all he wants to do with me all the time is wrestle. And it's so interesting to see how much he, he engages with me and will and Will listen. And if I'm not really in contact with him and in connection with him, then.

Not, not disciplining his behavior, but like correcting some of the stuff that's like, you know, don't fly your jet plane into my drywall and smash the out of it.

Like, you know, what's wrong with that?

Yeah, exactly. There's lines behind my couch in my living room that was. There's scratch marks down the wall. These like long lines where he's taking the nose of the jet plane and just scratch the wall.

Yeah, well, you're a parent, so that's part of it.

Yeah, that's just, that's part and parcel. Yeah. So I really appreciate that. I want to double back on one thing that you said though, which is how about getting a child to like themselves, which I agree is super important. Self esteem. Can you speak more to that? Because I think we're living in a time where so many kids are lacking in self esteem and a lot of parents don't really know how to support with that.

I think we're raising victims, these self entitled snowflakes with mental health issues. I saw that coming about 30, 40 years ago. That style of parenting. I call it the pleaser style. And it's raising self entitled snowflakes and they just don't have any fortitude, they don't have any strength because parents are trying to make everything easy for them, which is interesting. Those parents are the most likely to yell, which is like I've never yelled. I was never yelled at either, so. But those parents are most likely likely to yell because that parenting style is a disaster. Your dish rags, their dish rags. There's no strength in that. So. But yeah, I think that I always have three different departments. There's the authority, the old fashioned authority. That's not a bad way to parent. But they will rebel in the teen years. Then there's the pleaser style, which is total disaster. There's no leadership or anything. And then the leader, they'll never rebel against a leader because you make them feel good about Themselves. Now I'm going to tell the pool story. Have you heard this? It's such a. I have.

Yeah, but. No, but go for it. Go for it.

Well, I've told it so many times, I literally can't hear myself saying it. Okay. And I try and mix it up. But anyway, it's true story. My son was 8 years old and it was his birthday party. So I had. My husband took our daughter away for just a short period of time. So I was on my own with these little boys, and there was six of them and we had a pool. So I said, okay, there's only one rule. There are eight, remember? And I said, look, Whaley cannot go in the pool. It's a big blow up pool. I didn't have a foot pump. I didn't want to take the air out. He was way over on the other side of the yard. And I said, whaley cannot go in the pool because I can't see behind him. And all I'm doing is counting heads. Three kids could dive behind Whaley, okay? Blah, blah, blah. So go in the pool. Have fun. Sure enough, one of the kids brought Whaley in the pool. So I said to him, I said, whaley, out of the pool now. I would not say please because it is not appropriate here. I said, whaley, out of the pool now. And he said to me, no. My son instantly got a big grin because he said, oh, this is going to be good, because he knows mom knows how to take care of business. Anyway, so I was in the pool fast, fully clothed, and I dragged that kid out and I said, you're going to sit with me for 10 minutes. And then I was counting five heads in the pool. And then I'm talking to this kid now. You said, how do you make kids like themselves? This is a perfect example. So all I'm doing is I said to him, so he's sitting with me for 10 minutes now. I said, oh, I saw you in the soccer game the other day. You did? You got a goal. Way to go, buddy. And remember we worked on that test together in school because I used to be a behavioral mentor, volunteer at schools. And I said, you got 85 out of 100. Way to go. What's your favorite PlayStation game? Blah, blah, blah. I'm going on. And he's talk, talk, talk. And another thing about me that's wonderful. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I couldn't get rid of him. 10 minutes is up. Go back in the pool and have fun. He wouldn't go. He kept Talking and talking all about him. Now, how was he? And finally he got back in the pool. My son got him in. So for the rest of that party, for three hours, he was all over me. Lisa, can I help you with the cake? In the pool. He's telling other kids, don't bring Whaley in the pool. Now, what did I do there? I don't. I don't let anything go. Bad behavior. I addressed it, but it was fast. It was over with. And then I'm connecting. So he felt like a million bucks with me. He liked himself. Now, how are they going to treat you when they feel good about themselves? How are they going to treat you?

Pretty good.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like a friend.

That's all I do. It's that simple. Now, I'm going to address something that you said, and just a little piece of advice is. Let's say you're. And you said you play hard with your kid, which is absolutely fantastic. But let's say while you're playing, let's say he does something you don't like. What would you do? Let's say he just decided to hit you. What would you do in that moment?

It depends on the situation. Sometimes I'll reinforce. We don't do that. Or there's consequence immediately. Especially if it's.

What would that be? Like?

He. The only thing he gets to watch on TV is Thomas the Train. So it's like, no, no TV tonight. No Thomas the Train. Something like that. Or I will create.

Like, a state change through environment. So sometimes when he does that, I'll move him outside. I'll look, literally pick him outside, pick him up, bring him outside, sit him on the front porch, and I'll create a state change. And I'll say like, we don't. We don't hit. And so I'll move him away from what we were doing in that moment. And then he's usually like, oh, wait, what just happened?

And then how long would you have him? Like, how long would you go. Would you wait before you go back to the fun?

I'll sit with him for a minute or two, Maybe five.

Okay. Yeah.

Or some. The last thing that I've done, because my son has a ton of energy, which most boys do. There's a. From our front porch to. We have a hammock on our yard. All. It's probably like, I don't know, 25 yards. I'll have him run to the tree and back three or four times. So when he hits. When he hits, it's like consequence. You gotta you gotta do something. So go run to the tree and back three times.

Gotta be fast.

Yeah.

Another thing that I do teach this is if you're having fun with the kid, you don't want it just to end. But you're good. You go back to it. You don't just say, that's it, I'm finished with you for the day. So good for you. You go back to it. So you do basically what I'm talking about. But what I would do, or another way you could do this is just say, I'll tell you what, you just hit me. I didn't like that. So I'm just gonna sit here quietly for one minute and start a timer. And you just sit there, and there's no anger. You just sit there looking bored, looking at the trees for one whole minute. Minutes up. Okay, let's go back.

The thing is, they're watching. You sit there, ignore them. It's a bit of a snub. And it's okay to do that when you've just been hit. It's okay, but it's very fast. You don't have to move or anything. It's very quick. And then if he bugs you. But. But I'm sorry, I'm so say, okay, 10 more seconds. There's no anger. Just, okay, one more. Oh, it's over. Okay, let's go back to play. You see, you're sort of. You kind of know what you're doing. It's fast. And because I've worked with so many kids, I had no leverage. I was working in classrooms or in hospitals or wherever, and I had no leverage. So that's what I would do. Oh, Lisa's just going to go quiet for one minute because you did that. Oh, sorry, Lisa. They talk to me. Oh, no, no. 25 more seconds. And they're kind of in on it, too. They kind of. And the thing is, they don't tend to do it again.

What is it about the timer thing? Because my son, it's everything. Like, if I. If I'm having any trouble with him at all, timer. I'm like, we're going to set a timer for one minute, and then we're going to do that, or we're going to set a timer for 10 minutes, we're going to go play, and, you know, and then it's bath time. It's almost like it's this weird hack that I didn't know about. And I just started doing it one day where I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to set a Timer. And then he became obsessed. He wanted to see the timer on my watch and. And engage with me. And I was like, what is happening?

So it's a clear boundary, and it's something he feels in control of also. Okay. He knows what's happening. Like, I don't like there to be a lot of mystery with this stuff. I like to be pretty transparent. So I would just say, well, I didn't like what you just did. So I'm just going to go real quiet for a whole minute here. And then it's a. They're in on it. They understand that. It's not like, okay, that's it for now. And they're like, what's going to happen? What's it? You know, they don't know what's going to happen this way. He knows. He knows the end. He knows there is an end, by the way. Right. So if they don't know there's an end, they're going to keep hitting. Whereas this way, oh, all I have to do is stop hitting and that won't happen again or we'll go back to fun in a minute. Parents tend to let a lot of stuff go and then they blow up because they're trying to avoid. Like, I don't let anything go, but then I don't have to deal with anything either because, you know, I sort of set the boundaries right away. But, yeah, I don't teach that right away, by the way, when I'm coaching people, we start small. We just do one thing at a time. But, yeah, they tend to let a lot go because they don't want to discipline or they don't know how to. And then they blow up. That's it. I've had it with you kids. And they're yelling, and then the kids are like, ooh. And they're crying, and it's just a bit of a mess. It's very normal. Almost all my clients yell. Almost all of them. It's so rare that I'll get a client who doesn't yell. It throws me off. I'll say, okay, so do you yell? No, we don't yell. Oh, okay, let me think. Like, it's that rare. It throws me off. So most parents yell, and it's because they don't know what else to do. Yeah, they feel guilty about it.

Yeah, it's like the not having. Not having power. I mean, I guess the average person probably doesn't have somebody be so disobedient in their life in the way that a kid is. You know, they're like, hey, can you pass me that? No, just walk away. Like, what?

Exactly. And he. A lot of my clients are very successful, run huge corporations or are very famous and are used to people, you know, bowing to them everywhere. And then they get this little two year old that tells them to shut up and spits on them. All of a sudden, what the heck? They're just not used to that. So, you know, and then we have to talk them off the cliff. And I say, it's very normal. Two year olds are just kind of crazy anyway, so. But yeah, parenting is. I loved it. It was the most fun I ever had. But if you don't know what you're doing, I could see it would be a complete nightmare. I could totally see that. Because it's personal. And they live with you 24 7.

Yes.

Yeah. And they can terrorize you.

Tell me a little bit more about. So play, obviously, is a big avenue into connection. What are some of the other ways that parents can build a more robust level of connection with their kid?

That depends on the age, as they get older. Like my daughter and I, she's. She works with me and we're doing a podcast now and we were talking about this the other day and it came up in the podcast and I thought, that's interesting. Someone said, oh, well, did you discipline your kids? Because I always say I didn't have to because I got respect when they were tiny. And my daughter said she only remembers once. It was the fruit cup story. So we told that. And then she said, yeah, but you were in trouble all the time. I was accountable if I messed up. My kids loved it. They'd come in the kitchen together, a united front, and they'd have huge smiles on their faces and they'd. And I'd say, what did I do? Remember last night, mom, you said you promised you were going to make muffins? I don't see no muffins here.

What do you want? We'd love to go to the water slide park after school today. Okay, fine. I'll bring your suits. You got to be accountable. That's respect. You got to give it to get it. Everyone just expects to get it. I earned it. I worked for that and I was accountable. So I made it up to them. But I was still very much the leader, wasn't I, sweetie? Yep. She says, oh, yeah, I was the leader for sure. But we just had a friendship. It was just fun and goofy because I got that leadership cemented when they were little. Plus, when they're having that Much fun and laughter in the house. Oh, I did a lot of really weird stuff. But anyway, I was kind of crazy, but I was always trying to find joy in the moments. There's no magic, you know, cure for any of this, but it's just fine moments. It doesn't have to be any big. Okay, now our quality time Tonight is between 7 and 7 21. You know, you don't do that. You just, you know, all of a sudden I just start singing and next thing you know, the kids are singing along, like just crazy driving along. Find moments and just engage with your kids. But engage. It's always on their level, never on yours, because remember, we're trying to make them feel good about themselves. They don't feel good about themselves if you're on an adult level and they can't get there. You know that there's a saying that I've heard before, and they. You say you get down on their level and you say to them, use your words. I find that extremely patronizing. They are using. If they're crying and screaming and having a fit, that is their words. Don't expect them to find their inner adult. So. But yeah, get on their level and just. Just be goofy. Be fun. They love goofy. They love fun. Luckily, it comes naturally to me, but they love goofy and fun. And even with teenagers, I was funny. That's what that was. What I used as my weapon is I was. I used humor and it. Fun connects. Everybody agreed. So I use that with kids. Fun. It really is.

Yeah, it's. It's. It's very interesting. I'm curious about the. This shift between how you raise a toddler and then a preteen and then a teenager. Like, what are some of the ways. Because obviously I haven't gone through the teenage years yet.

I mean, I went through them myself, and that was a shit show. That was a complete disaster. I was the most rebellious, not listening. And it's funny because I can see this part in my son that's like mischievous, you know, and. But, well, pushing. And I'm like, oh, you are just like me, boy. Like this. That's wild.

If you set them up like, my son was 15, he could have rebelled. He had it in him for sure. I could see it. And he was 15 and he was kind of mad at me one day, and I thought, what's going on? What's wrong? And he goes, you've been a really difficult mom. I was. We were best friends. What? And he says. He says, because I could never rebel. You're too reasonable and easy to talk to.

I apologized and then I walked away and celebrated, right?

Yeah, yeah. You're like fistful.

Too reasonable and easy. Well, he just told me what to do. Be reasonable and easy to talk to. And also I gave them a say. I always gave my kids a say. I'd say, here's what I want. Now let's start the negotiations. Do you think that's fair? And they'd usually say, yes, or else they'd say, no, I don't think that's fair. I say, okay, well, what do you want? So we go back and forth. They always had a say, but because I had respect already, they never came at me in a disrespectful way. But I'm going to go through the four stages of parenting. The first one is baby, 0 to 15 months. You meet their needs and meet their wants. The second Stage is toddler, 16 to 35 months. This is just in my own. The way I've done it. 16 to 35 months. Then you meet their needs and start to manage their wants. You're teaching them right from wrong at that point. So there's things you do, but it's all consistent, corrective actions. They're not about words at all because they're in the moment. They don't have foresight. They don't have, I know what I think I'm going to do. They just do it. They don't think before they do it. And then you go into the child phase. The child is 3 to 12, and I've linked the preteens or tweens in there, which is 9 to 12, because you still parent the same way. That's when you're at the height of your leadership. They want to please you between three and 12, not under that. Toddlers don't give a hoot, but children want to please you. Now, then you go into the teen phase. Thirteen plus. This is the one that is my favorite age, for sure. I specialize in teen crisis work because they're my favorite age. It's not that they're difficult. It's that parents don't adjust their parenting to the teen years you want. Now, you've been their leader for, you know, all these years. Now you want to transition and make them the leaders of their own lives because that's what they're going to be and they're going to take over anyway. So you want to be condoning it and helping them manage it as they go along. So what you do is you want them to be their Own leaders, but they just don't want to disappoint you. So they go from wanting to please you to not wanting to disappoint you. You do not want teenagers trying to please you. They're turning into adults now. You want them to want to please themselves. So. And you can't go wrong with high self esteem. You make your kids feel good about themselves. They usually will make the right choice and they treat you beautifully.

Yeah, I was reading. I like research, by the way. You're probably getting some of this.

Yeah. You used a word. What was it? What did you word the state of something? It was. So what was it you said the state of something and the word you used. I thought. Yeah, I don't talk like that. I knew what you meant, but I don't talk like that. I've been around kids too long.

There is a, there was a study about kids and one of the greatest determinants of whether a child will have, will be successful later on in life is their level of self esteem growing up.

Well, of course, because there's nothing you can't do. Both my kids are incredibly hard workers. Both of them almost to a fault. It's almost pushed themselves too hard. My daughter works with me full time now and I was a little bit nervous about it because she has way more drive than I do. So I always say like I'm the face of the company and. But she's in the tractor driving it and I'm in the, I'm in the wagon and behind her, just hanging on, she's pulling me along. So both my kids, I raised them to be strong, confident individuals and they're both really, really hard workers. So I'm proud of that. You know, I didn't, I didn't hand anything to them. I made them work, you know, I, I taught them. You got to go out and get a job now. God, I hope you have to clean a public toilet. When they were 15, they had to get a part time job and they both did. It wasn't their job but they both had to clean up some pretty horrendous stuff.

Yeah, I worked it out. I worked at a petro can pumping gas and when I was 15 and I, because I grew up in Alberta and just outside of Edmonton and so that was not the best place. But at 15 you learned a lot of lessons there. So. But I wanted. Go ahead, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say then anything after that is good, right?

That's right. Yeah. After that, I mean there was gravel pits after that. And building sidewalks. So that's a little different. But yeah, on the self esteem piece, what, what the research was talking about is that kids that have high levels of self esteem are the kids that have, that are competent and that are capable. And so I'm curious for you, how can parents begin to support their kids in developing more competency, more capabilities? Like, because I think sometimes parents are afraid to let their kids, you know, make the big mistakes, drop the dish, break the egg, you know, like, whatever it is. I. I saw this with my son the other day who's afraid to crack the eggs. He was worried about, you know, getting the shell into the thing or dropping the egg in the ground. I was like, no, do it. Like, let's go. Let's. Let's try this out. And then he did it and he, you know, cracked it open and he had egg all over his hands and there was some. The counter. But he was so ecstatic, you know, he was so excited. He's like, I did it all by myself. Like, yeah, buddy, you got this. So are like, is it little moments like that, or how do you recommend that parents develop that competency and that capability in their kids?

Well, I haven't heard that kids with high self esteem, it's competence and capability. I haven't quite heard it put like that. So I have to think about that. Not right now. I'll think about it later.

Yeah, gonna have a philosophical think on this one while we're on the podcast.

Give me five minutes alone here. Okay. So I went at it differently. I went at it like, look at mom flop. Look at this. Look at what I just did. It was more showing them that even as an adult, you're not supposed to get everything right. I taught them that the only failure in life is not trying. I don't care if you win. I never put an emphasis on winning or succeeding. I put the emphasis on trying. Okay? So doing it right, being perfect, I never put emphasis on that ever. I'd say, let's just laugh it off and try again. So I think it was more. I wasn't pushing them. I did make them try stuff, but it wasn't so much. It was more watching me, I think, fail at stuff and go, oh, well, I gave that a go, didn't I? Oh, well. So. Because remember, they're not listening to you. They're watching you. So. But yeah, they saw the fact that I was never aiming for perfection. My son, if he was here, would say, well, you sure didn't need it. He's the funny One. So thank God you didn't. Okay. But, yeah, I just sort of. I made imperfection almost beautiful. Like it's our vulnerabilities and our imperfections with which connect us to people, and we all have them. And I know I used to get asked this a lot because I used to. From the time I was little. Mom used to say this, too. She used to say, you know, you can walk into any room like you own it. From the time I was like, three, I just. I still do it. I'm 60, almost 64 now, and I still. I walk into any room. Like, I. Now what I'm thinking when I do that, because I thought, why do I do that? Why do people keep pointing that out? Now, it's not that I think I'm better than anybody else. It's that I don't think anyone else is better than me. We're all the same. So I told my kids that. I said, if you see someone who's the most popular kid at school, guaranteed they have insecurities, just like you. I was always trying to teach them that it's okay to be imperfect, just like cracking the egg. Same. Same idea. But I did focus a lot on trying and failing. I said, if you're not trying and failing, you'll never get anywhere.

So rather than focusing in on developing a competency, you really focused in on how. Like teaching them how to fail. Is that an effective way of saying that? Or how would you word that?

Yeah, that. It's not just teaching them how to fail because it was okay if they succeeded, too, by the way. By the way, that was wrong. You're supposed to fail. But no, it was. Yeah. Yeah, sort of. But it was more just teaching them that it's winning or failing or succeeding isn't the point. And they're pretty competent kids anyway. Like, they did very well in school and, you know. But I never pushed it. I never did. No matter what they did, all I went to was the behavior. That's all. If you're nice. I always figured that trumped everything. But, yeah, they're both extremely hard workers. And I think because I did push them to try everything. You get out there, give it a go. No one else is better than you. I think we have that fallacy when we. And I'm older. I get this now, by the way. You can't get wisdom when you're young. You have to get old and wrinkled and saggy before you get it. It's unfortunate. But anyway, you do start to get it and you think, yeah, you know, no one else. We're all the same. We all want the same things in life, you know, So I never really saw success maybe the way other people did. I saw it more from making a difference in the world and liking yourself, being a good person. So my idea of success was maybe a little bit skewed too.

No, I like that because I think I have a ongoing saying with the guys that I work with, and because I get asked the question a lot, you know, like, how have you done what you've done or built what you've built? And my response is always, I failed my way here. You know, it's really been through the failures. I was not a great student. I was not good in academics. I wasn't particularly good at many sports. But I really focused in on learning from failures, examining them, being okay with them. You know, being able to laugh it off sometimes and be like, well, that was a mess. What a disaster. That was like, holy crap. Let me. Let me look at that. Like, what happened there? And I think I've tried to take that approach with my. With my son as well. My daughter's only, you know, seven or eight weeks old, and so there's no.

But you haven't started that with her yet. Geez, you're falling behind here.

But I've tried to do that with him where it's like, you know, I just, like, put these little things in, like, you know, accidents happen, and that's okay. And he's like, yeah, accidents happen, and that's okay. And so I think that type of mentality is. Is good, because otherwise, I've noticed with some parents, they can really pressurize the system. And I would love for you to speak to what happens to a kid when they feel that perfectionist pressure that can start to set in within a home environment.

Oh, geez, those are the poor sports, you know, the ones who cry when they don't win. And because now I don't see that as a perfectionist, I see that as horribly insecure. Like, there's. I'm a loser because I didn't win. That's the way I view it. And when I point that out to the parents, they go, oh, wow. Yeah, you're right. It's not that they. And even when they win, they're obnoxious about it, you know? You know what I mean? Ha ha, I beat you. It's all insecurity. Whereas those parents did. And it's a learned behavior, by the way. They're not born to do this. Poor sportsmanship. And it does come from insecurity, so. And yeah, I don't really know. I don't have a perfect answer for that. I don't have a perfect answer for anything, by the way. But yeah, I think that if they see you trying and failing, putting yourself out there, they're more likely to do it because they are watching you. Trust me, they're watching you way more than they're listening to you. Even teenagers.

More than they're listening for sure, for sure. But they're always watching you, always. So, yeah, I think that set a good example of not being perfect. Did I do that, sweetie? Did I? She doesn't want to be mean, but she goes, yeah, okay. She's really sweet. But yeah, I like to set a good example of being a loser. No, not that bad. But yeah, just give it a go. Who cares how you look? Yeah, who cares if anyone's laughing at me that were you up here? Did you get up here and do this? Well, no. Someone said to me, asked me, I used to do a lot of public speaking back in the olden days. And someone said, how do you do that? Get up on stage? I'd be so nervous, they'd all looking at me. I said, no, they're not. Everyone's sitting there thinking, oh God, I hope this isn't agony. It's all about them. They're sitting there, they don't care what you say or what you do, so long as you entertain them and make sure they don't fall asleep, hopefully. But they're sitting there thinking, oh God, is this going to be agony? They're not thinking about you. They're not, you know, they're not focused on you. It's. I guess that's my thing, is that we're all focused on ourselves anyway. Like, that's why I don't mind entering a room. No one's really looking at me. They're all looking in a mirror. I used to teach aerobics and I told this to my people who come into the class. And the new people were so self conscious and I. And they said, oh my God, there's so many fit people in here. And I said, I guarantee you, you see all those people in the front row, they're only looking at themselves. They're not looking at you. Just give it a go. You go in the back and you get fitter than them one day and then push them off aside. So just focus on what you're doing. Don't worry about what other people. Don't compare yourself to other People. That's one thing I would suggest. Also, parents do put a lot of pressure on their kids to do well, and unfortunately, they do it to make themselves feel better because they're not doing it for their kids, they're doing it for themselves. I could go on and on about that one, but I don't want to upset too many people here. But usually when people are pushing kids to succeed, it's usually their own ego. It's bragging rights.

Yeah. Say more like, my kids. So, like, my kid's so great at math or like, whatever it happens to be, and that's an extension of their own ego? Is that what you mean?

Yeah. Why else would you say that?

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Yeah.

And my thing. I remember once, years ago, my son was labeled as gifted, and he was offered this huge scholarship at three years old. I mean, huge. I turned it down and I said, I'm not putting my kid in a special school. He'll end up with a rifle on a tower one day. I said, I'm just not going to do that to him. So anyway, when they're gifted, by the way, people seem to think, oh, they're. Oh, they're special. They're golden. No, their brain just works differently in a certain way. It doesn't make them better people. Anyway, this is the funny part. So I took him to the mall after that, and he was 3, and he just was his very second to last tantrum he ever had. Threw himself on the floor, had a tantrum, and I looked at him and I go, yeah, you're gifted, all right.

That's gifted. But, yeah, now, bragging rights. That's why people like talking about grades. Think about it. I. If I was talking about my kids, it was usually, they're fun and they're funny and they did very well in school. So I didn't talk about it because who cares? Are they nice? Are they fun? Do you enjoy being around them? Anyway, I had this friend who also had a gifted son. She thought we were friends because our sons were both gifted and they were segregated in certain ways that we didn't have control over. She was pushing her son. I was pulling mine back. But anyway, and she said to me, oh. She goes, people just don't understand when you've got a gifted child. Her son was like, five, and he was gnawing on her ankle to get her attention.

And here she's bragging about him being gifted, and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, you know, it's just so crazy. Like, it's not a well rounded thing, but it's measurable. That's why people really push their kids to get good grades. If being nice was measurable on a scale, they would focus more on that, wouldn't they? Think about it. It's kind of controversial, but, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, so that's. My parents like talking about grades.

I, I don't disagree at all. And I, I feel like that's a different podcast conversation because I think education is going to radically change with AI when you'll have a PhD bot in your pocket that can teach you anything about quantum mechanism mechanics to calculus to philosophy and beyond. I think it is. It's really going to change quite a bit. But, but I want to go back to maybe some tactical pieces for parents that are struggling with their kids between those age brackets that you talked about. And maybe we can just go, you know, under 3, 3 to 12, and then teenage years. So if you have a kid that's under three and, you know, you're a parent that's listening to this and you're struggling to connect or, you know, your kid's throwing tantrums constantly. Maybe we just touched on that one. Like, what should a parent do when their kid's throwing a tantrum?

This is when people come to hate me and I'm all for it is tantrums need to be ignored. A tantrum is a loss of emotional control and not getting their own way. You do not need to validate that. So what I do is I always say, get the nail file out and just file your nails and look away. You just let them have the tantrum. They may be hanging on. I love you. Nobody loves me. I'm filing my nails. No way would I look at that. They'll do anything to pull you into that. Now, I always say, stay on the high road. Let them go on the low road. That is the low road. Don't meet them down there. Now, here's the thing. As soon as they're done with the tantrum, then you look at them and you say, oh, y' all done? Okay, let's go read a book. You see, you reward the calm. You ignore the crazy. So a lot of parents react. And a leader doesn't react. A leader acts. I'm acting. I'm waiting for them to join me on the high road. I don't join them on the low road. Now, this just works. It just does. But if you have history with your kids, they're going to remember the old you that they could pull in. They're going to get worse before they get better. But. And that's normal. But tantrums, you can't get rid of them right away, but they will minimize in frequency, intensity and veracity over like diminish over time. But if you keep feeding the tantrum, it will grow because you're validating it and it's getting what they want. They want attention. Attention is fertilizing it. So you've just got to learn to ignore it. But. So that's under three. Just with tantrums. But everything else, they're about consistent corrective actions and discipline. Should be very short, very quick. Oh, I didn't like that. Okay, so I'm going to take this toy away and put it away and just for the afternoon or whatever, you know, whatever's appropriate. And then let them have their fit as soon as they're finished with their fit. Because remember the fit scenes, meltdowns and tantrums are the lessons. That's when they're learning. Don't interrupt that process, if you interrupt it. And try and help them self regulate, which is garbage. But anyway, you can't self regulate someone else. It's ridiculous. The only way that could make them stop a tantrum is by giving them what they want. Part of what they want is attention. So you've just taught them to keep having tantrums, right?

Interesting.

Yeah, no, it's just.

Well, I think it's interesting because I think one of the things that is out there with like the gentle parenting movement or any of those types of things is this sort of you have to co regulate with your child. And I think what's interesting about what you're saying is that that is a form of regulation that you are, you're holding this frame of. I'm in the grounded, regulated state. Because I see a lot of these like videos online and not from anybody in particular, but just these videos online of like, oh, your child's having a tantrum, then get down and wrap your arms around them and practice breathing and like all these types of things. And, and what I find interesting is like my son does breath work with me. He stretches with me in the morning. He does. I do those things as a regular habit for my own personal benefit. He does them with me sometimes and sometimes he will breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth. If he's starting to spin up. If he's in a full blown tantrum, there's no way in hell that he's listening to me go like, breathe in through your nose, breathe out through your mouth. You know, it's not. It doesn't work because their emotional system, which I think is the limbic system, is completely hijacked. You know, their nervous system is just gone. They're off the charts.

And it's almost like the analogy is if you're. If you're married or you're in a relationship and your partner has just gone off the deep end and they're like, losing it, and you're like, just take a breath in through your nose.

Just calm down. Just calm down.

It's like that's. That's not going to do anything, right? So.

Well, it might do something. You might get a slap across the face, but just calm down.

Right? Yeah, so. But I like what you were saying because I think in some ways you are holding that space of this is the regulated. To use the sort of like modern therapy, speak terms. This is the regulated space and you.

But they have to learn how to do it, right. You can't do it for them. I think that's the big mistake people are making, that you can do it for them. You can't. Once they've gone off the cliff, you can't help them. They have to climb up all by themselves and they will see.

You talking about teaching competency, though. You're talking about teaching competency.

Of course. It's all driven. It's all pride. It's all self. Self discipline. That's why I never discipline my kids. They had it in themselves. They got it from the time they were three, three and a half. There was no discipline after that. Or for me, there was. I was always in trouble. But, yeah, no, there was none. Anyway, the. Okay, so. And then also, what's important that we didn't hit on again, which I want to really focus on, is that when they're having a tantrum, it's very important that you're standing there, not on your phone, not having a conversation. It's important that they know you're standing there waiting for them to finish. You're still there for them. Don't walk away. I think that's mean. They are going through something. It's not nearly as upsetting to them as it is to you, by the way, because I don't want to get into all that. But anyway, they're just coming out of babyhood when all they had to communicate with was crying. So crying to them is not emotionally devastating like we think it looks like it is. Right? When a newborn cries for milk, do we go oh, my God. He's emotionally devastated. No, toddlers are coming out of that, so it's not as nearly as upsetting to them as you think it is. Anyway, it's very important that they see you waiting for it to be over, but you're yawning. You're just waiting wa. Soon as it's done, though, when it's over, oh, y' all done? You want to go read a book, Then you connect. There's no anger. And then you're rewarding the calm. Now, if there's nothing at the end of the tunnel as a reward, why should they stop? If you've walked away, where's the. Where's the reward? I don't. We're not rewarding the tantrum, but we're rewarding getting yourself out of it. And don't go on about it. Never discuss the tantrum before, during, or after, ever, Ever. Some of my clients are child psychologists. They will discuss that one for a while, but I stick to my guns with that. What's the point in discussing it? Could you imagine discussing with your wife if she had a fit over something? Oh, now, you know, the other day when you were having a fit, was that really the right thing to do? Were you happy with yourself? You see what I mean? It's like that, but children can articulate that. That is patronizing and making them feel bad. I don't want to make kids feel bad, so I don't focus on what they did wrong. I focus on who they are and what they do right. That's what gets you more of the good rather than talking about the bad. But you got to show that you're just waiting for it to be over. And as soon as it is, oh, y' all done. You don't say, okay, let's go get some candy. Just go. Oh, you want to read a book? Or do you want to go help me make dinner? Or you're connecting. I need a hug. Nope, nope. Do not console them, because then it makes you look like you felt sorry for them. I, I, I need a hug, you know. Oh, you're all right. Pat them on the back. You're okay. Let's go do dinner. You can hug them and console them and cuddle them. I'm very affectionate. Do that any other time, but not around a tantrum. So as soon as you can. Oh, my angel. They're going, oh, good. Okay, so that was awful. That was something to feel sorry for myself about, was I treat it like it was nothing. Oh, y' all done. Okay. Let's go cook dinner. I need a hug now. You're all right.

Okay.

Let's go do dinner. You watch the difference in those kids. I've worked with hundreds of kids. You watch the difference in those kids when they're treated like that compared to the other way. I've seen this millions of times and it's. They just get it. They just get it. Parents don't. Kids just get this.

It's interesting when you frame it like that. I can see how the, I mean, you know, a parents. How do I say this? Like a parent's intention is to soothe their kid in that moment. But what a kid's probably receiving is reinforcement around that emotionality. And I can imagine if they're in a household where maybe they're not getting the type of attention or connection that they're wanting, then it's like, oh, this is a gateway. This is a conduit for me to get this closeness and this attention that I am craving for or desiring. Does that line up?

Well, that's a really good point. Because if your child. By the way, you throw a lot of big words in conduit, limpic system. Just trying to keep up here. I don't know what he's saying anyway. I kind of do. I just don't like to admit it anyway. See, I play dumb. That's why my kids thought it was funny because I was never trying to be holier than thou. Right. Like I can't keep up to anybody. You know, dumb mom. They would always laugh. But anyway, okay. Now the thing is, if you are damaging your child by ignoring a tantrum and if they are being damaged emotionally, you got bigger fish to fry. They are not, you are not meeting their needs. If you are a very loving, affectionate parent, any other time, like except around tandem. And if that is damaging them. Yeah, you got other stuff going on. You might want to hire me. Like that's other stuff is going on. So they. You can't damage them by just letting them have a fit. Unless they're already damaged. Yeah, it can add to it because sometimes children. What's interesting, I don't want to get into this too much. I've studied kids for 50 plus years, but you look at kids in an orphanage in Romania or whatever years ago. There's lots of documentaries in that. It's horrible. Don't watch it. So sad. Anyway, they don't even cry. Newborns don't even cry. What's the point? Isn't that interesting? Newborns stop crying after. I think It's a week or so. They don't even cry anymore. So sometimes. Now, I'm not, not saying that's what's going on with these parents, but if a child is really damaged, they often will not have a fit at all. So you got to know your kid, you got to see. Are you hugging your kid? Are you loving them up? Do they feel loved? 99.999% of kids in this, in this world for sure, in our world, North America are very loved, very well cared for. So ignoring a tantrum is not going to damage them. I know what damage is. I specialize in crisis work. Ignoring a tantrum, from what I've seen, has never damaged a child. Now, I play hard with kids, too. I build up a really good base with kids when I'm working with them. I lead with fun, I lead with play. As soon as they act out, ooh, I didn't like that. I'll just go real quiet for a whole minute. Here's the timer. Then they don't tend to do it again. But you got to play hard with kids, connect with them. Connection is everything. It's everything. If you're not connected with them, ignoring a tantrum, yeah, probably would damage them. Yep, yep, probably would. I'll agree with that.

Last, because we're, I can't believe how quickly this has gone. But maybe lastly, when.

Because I'm thinking about the parents that are listening to this and the, you know, the dads that are tuning in and the moms that are tuning in.

For those teenage years. All right, for the parents that are navigating and traversing the, the transition from the, from the preteen into the full blown teen. Any advice, any insight of like the do's and the don'ts. Just simple tactical things that parents can keep a lookout for to maintain that really strong connection with their kids.

I'm going to read out my top four tips for parenting teenagers. It's just to keep it simple. I got a million things, but it's just to keep it simp. Okay, Number one for sure, I would say probably about three, four years and up anyway. But certainly with teenagers, you listen to understand and show empathy. You don't listen to gather information to lecture with or they will shut you out. If they want your advice, they'll ask for it. What they really want is what we want. We want a shoulder to cry on when we're complaining. Do we really want a friend to say, okay, here's what you should do?

No, we don't really do we we want to be able to just unload. So listen to understand and show empathy and then go silent. It's quite interesting because I'll coach parents. It takes quite a while with teenagers. It's pretty challenging. So I'll say, okay, so then after you've listened, go quiet. They say, well, that's agony. I know. Silence is golden, right? Then go quiet and just sort of look down. Just sort of wait, wait and see what they say. So they've just unloaded on you. They might say, what do you think I should do if they do? This is what I always said to my kids. You're smart, you can figure it out. Let's talk about it. I always encourage them to figure out their own problems. I never wanted to solve their problem. I never told them what to do. I never wanted to solve their problems. I encouraged them to do it. So what you're doing is you're giving the teenager power and control over their own life. You're feeding that that need. It's a need they're turning into adults soon. Second one is negotiate as much as possible. Hey, I want your dirty clothes and the hamper from now on. What do you want from me?

See what they say when you come at them with this respect, they always come back respectfully. If you're new to this, they'll usually say, get off my back, leave me alone, never talk to me again. Okay, let's negotiate. But that's where you kind of want to go. Number three is don't sweat the small stuff. With teenagers, if they do something stupid and it's not a big deal, say, well, that was stupid. Do you want to hear what I did when I was your age? Or do you want to hear what I did this morning and laugh it off? If it's a big deal, then say, okay, what do you think we should do? Then you get involved, but you always bring them in on it. Don't tell them what to do, bring them in on it. Number four is don't leverage the good times to discuss the bad times. I just added this about six months ago because so many of my clients would do this. I would teach them how to connect with their teenager who never talked to them before. They completely ignored them for the last two or three years. All of a sudden they're out having coffee with their 17 year old that I taught them how to do. I taught them how to connect. Then they'll say something like this, God, such a big mistake. And I always tell them ahead of time not to do it. You Wouldn't believe how many still do it. Oh, I'm so glad we're out having coffee because the last two years has been hell, and they can't figure out why their teenagers said f you and left. They can't figure that out. They can't piece that together. Don't leverage the good times to discuss the bad times. Keep it all light and airy. Your vendetta or your. Your payback to what they put you through will be when they have teenagers themselves and you can sit back and watch the show when they complain to you, just go, oh, well.

It'S a very slow burn. But that is when you get paid back. Don't expect it to happen when they're still teenagers. So that's my best four tips for parenting teenagers. They are my favorite age by far because I know how to talk to them. I know how to connect with them. Once you do, they are lovely. You won't need curfews or anything. They're just lovely because it's mutual respect. And if I did something my kids didn't like, they'd say, I didn't like that. I'd say, okay, why tell me? And I would usually change because they never came at me unless it was valid. So I'd say, you're right. I was being ridiculous. You're 15. You're not five. So, yeah, okay, you see, it's respect. It's respect. And by the way, I just want to say before we go, that most people come to me because they want to fix their kids. We're not doing that. We're training parents here. And my goal is not for you to raise nice kids. That's a byproduct. My goal is that I want you to wallow and enjoy parenting as much as I did. It was the most fun time of my whole life. I laughed every single day. My daughter will attest to this. I said to her, stupidly, about a month ago, she's 29 now. And I said, were you aware of how wallowed in you? And she goes, yes. Yes, we were. Yes, we were. I want you to enjoy parenting like I did. It's fun. It's fun. Just get all that pesky discipline out of the way and just enjoy. That's. That's my goal with parents, is that they have fun.

Love that. Couldn't agree more. It's my. I'm totally on board with you. Maybe it's the Vancouver connection, but I just. I have. I have so much fun with my boy, and I can't wait to have some more fun with my daughter. So thank you so much for joining me. This has been very insightful. I think people will love this. Where can people go to follow along with your work and your wisdom? Where should they go?

Well, it's bratbusters.com and make sure there's a S on the end. I've got lots of imposters out there. Evidently, because you get a decent following and you get a whole bunch of imposters out there. So anyway, we just got a brand new podcast that started a week ago. My daughter and I are doing it together. But just go to bratbusters.com everything's there and I'm here to support you. I do lives all the time on all my platforms and they're all free and my behavior board's free. And then there's paid stuff too, but there's lots of free stuff I'm handing out all the time because I love what I do.

Awesome. Well, we'll have the links for all that in the show notes. Definitely. Go check it out. If you are a parent or you're going to become a parent, then this is the thing that you should listen to with your partner. So man it forward, share it with them. Dive into this, check out Lisa's work. And until next week, Connor Beaton signing off.