Rich Loesing - Movember and De-Stigmatizing Men’s Health

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Welcome to the mantalks show. I'm Connor Peton and joining me today is Rich Losing, who is the corporate development manager for Movember. And for those of you who maybe are not familiar with Movember, it is a nonprofit, a charity, specifically designed to raise awareness around the physical well being and health of men. So their mission is to bring awareness to things like testicular cancer, prostate cancer, and how we as men can get ahead of the curve. Because there are some surprising facts, some surprising data around men's health, physical health and well being. Things like testicular cancer often strikes and hits men under the age, age of 35. So most men that will have testicular cancer, a lot of, a lot of those cases will actually happen in the late 20s and early 30s. And so Movember is bringing awareness to these types of things. And a lot of men will deal with prostate cancer either, you know, in their, in their later years or it can happen earlier on. So this is just a really lighthearted conversation to talk about men's mental, physical and emotional health and well being, how we can further those conversations, how we can connect with our, as Movember would call it, Mo Bros or Movember Bros. To just have a different type of dialogues. We don't often talk about our physical health. I share a few personal stories, Rich shares a few personal stories and we just sort of destigmatize a little bit around how to have these conversations around our physical health to, to encourage just the other men in our life to go in and get checked, to be aware of our physical well being. I've really taken on that challenge this last year, tracking my hrv, my heart rate variability, blood oxygen levels, my general heart rate, and just taking more care, more awareness into my physical health. Not because I'm getting old and I feel like things are falling apart because I dislike that narrative and, but more so because we as men often take our physical health for, for granted sometimes. And it's very uncommon for us to maybe talk about our concerns about our body, especially the way that it looks or insecurities that we might have about it or our fears around our physical health. So this is a great conversation. We bring in some, some data and some research around men's health and wellness. So enjoy this episode and without any further delay, please welcome Rich Losing.

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Yeah, it's good. I've been, I've been back and forth with a few people at Movember over the years and so it's nice to finally see a smiling Mo face on the show.

Although.

Although, you know, we're not recording this on video, so people can't see your face, but just trust that he's got a great, you know, a forming Tom Selleck stash.

I could never get Tom Selleck level ever.

But, I mean, that's like. That's like the gold standard, right? Like, Tom Selleck's mustache is just. Anyway, all right, let's. Let's kick things off with. With the question that I ask all my guests, which is tell me a story about a defining moment in your life that made you who you are today.

Beautiful question.

I would say. And it's somewhat recent. It happened this past June, actually, amidst the Pand, and it was the day that I proposed to my fiance. I would say that was definitely a defining moment. I'm in my early 30s, been a kind of a bachelor my whole life, and kind of done things to the beat of my own drum. But I think the day that I got down on one knee and asked a woman to be my wife was the day that I would say I kind of became a man in many ways. So I'd say that was a very, very defining moment in my life. And luckily, she said yes, so that was important as well. Happy that she did. And, yeah, I think that was a big, big turning point in my life when I redirected and said, I'm ready to get married and have a family and start this new chapter in my life.

Nice. Well, tell me about that, because I think you said something along the lines of, that was the day I felt like I became a little bit more of a man in this act of proposing and commitment. And so I'm curious about that. What was it about that this stepping into this new phase that. That sort of allowed you to feel like you were maturing as a man? Because I think for a lot of men.

This is a question that I get a lot. You know, through Instagram, through the podcast, through. You know, talking to men is like, I feel like I can't commit. Or, you know, I. I'm very hesitant. Like, how do I know if I found the right. The right partner? And what does that look like? And so I would love to hear from your side, like, how you. How you came to that place.

Yeah, I think I've always wanted to get married and have a family, but again, being the consummate bachelor, I've always done things my own way at my own pace when I wanted. And there was, yeah, definitely that. I'm not ready to commit. I want to be Young and free and kind of, you know, I'm 34 now, but a couple years ago, I said, you know, how long can I do this? How long will this be fulfilling for me? It really hasn't been fulfilling for me. So I think getting into that mindset, like, I'm going to start dating with intention to marry, to find the woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with. So I would say that that change in mindset was actually a very, very defining moment. And then, luckily, I was blessed to meet my. My now fiance. And again, from day one, we were both very clear, like, you know, we're dating to get married, so if this works out, great, but if not, like, we'll. We'll know and we can go our separate ways. So I think the culmination of that was on June 19th when I got down on one knee and proposed. It was our anniversary, actually, and she didn't even know what was going on until we were literally in the middle of a church with candles and flowers and I was on a knee. And that's when she realized that she proposed. But I think that was it. Again, it was a change in mindset that I'm ready to commit. And then, you know, a couple years later, I'm. I'm now an engaged man.

Nice. Very nice. Well, I was going to say, you know, I get a lot of women reaching out, asking, like, how do I know if a man is ready? And I feel like you just gave a good description of that. Right. Like, I think for a lot of men, we do cross this threshold where we start to enter into a space of like, okay, I don't. I don't really want to just date for dating sake anymore. I'm not dating to just, you know, get laid. I'm actually wanting to move into this space of. Of seriousness, you know, and like, real commitment. And so what was there? Was there certain things that happened in your life that were indicators for that you wanted to move out of that bachelor phase. Like, how did you start to know? Because I can hear a lot of the men being like, I feel I'm in that space right now, and I don't know what the threshold is to cross that. And I know it's largely a feeling, but what were some of the indicators for you that you could move out and into this more? This next phase, the next chapter?

I'd say getting older is definitely one of them. I mean, I'm by no means an old man, but, you know, once my body started creaking and Aching a little more on the basketball court than it did when I was in my 20s. I was like, oh, you know what? Like if you want to get married and have kids, maybe you should do that sooner rather than later. So that was one. And also too, I mean, just becoming more reflective, growing deeper in my faith, frankly, was another one where it was like, what am I looking for? Like what, what, what gives value and purpose to my life? Right. And am I getting that from the way that I'm living now? You know, not dating with intention, kind of just being the single guy that likes to go out and party and have a good time. And if I was being really honest with myself, fun, absolutely. But could I see myself doing this long term or does it give me a lot of purpose in my life? I would say if I was being really honest with myself, the answer was no. So I think it was coming to that realization again. It's nice to do things the fun and easy way for as long as you can. But eventually I think I just looked at myself in the mirror and said, like, what do you really want in life? And I think that's when it's like, you know, a family is really important to me. I grew up in a big family. I'm the oldest of five. Kind of wanted that same thing for myself. So it probably took me a little bit longer than most to of hit that point and mature a lot of my. I'm one of the last to get married of all my college and high school friends. But just that's how life worked out. And again, I couldn't have asked for anything better now. But yeah, it was just really, just being honest to myself and saying what. What brings value to your life? What gives you purpose? And once I kind of said, not what I'm doing now it's time to approach life a little bit differently.

Yeah, nice. I'm the oldest of five as well. So I remember.

Yeah, oldest are the best, man.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean I read a study, it was clearly done by, by the oldest sibling. But it was a study, that study that said that the on average oldest. Oldest siblings are on average the most successful. And then have. I think there's another study that said that on. On average the oldest sibling has the highest intelligence, which in my family is not true. My younger brother is. My youngest brother is, is. He is absolutely brilliant. He's like, he's one of those gifted whiz kids that went through like IB class and stuff like that, but I.

Don'T even know him and I Disagree. Yeah, you're the smartest, best looking, most successful.

Yeah, all the things. All the things, yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Okay, well, okay, so maybe tell me a little bit about. And tell the listeners a little bit about how you knew. And then after this question, I'll move away from the relationship, I promise. But tell me a little bit about how you knew that your partner was the right one. Like, how did you come to that place? Was it just a. Was it just a feeling? Was there certain things that you were looking for in the relationship? Because I think for a lot of men it's like when we do move into that phase, I remember sort of feeling that shift as well. And then I was like, well, shit, how, like, how do I decide? How do I know if I've found the, the right person? And I don't necessarily believe in like, the one. You know, I think there's a lot of like, oneitis in our culture that's very much sort of predicated and, and perpetuated by like the Disney version of love. But. But I think having some indication is proper as well. So how did you come into this place of like, I know that this person is the person that I want to propose to you?

Well, I think I was lucky in that I came to this decision point later in life, so I had a little more experience of knowing what's out there, what's important to me, what I'm looking for. And I think kind of once I started that dating with intention, I had my non negotiables, right, the things that were most important to me. And then again, I didn't write down a list, but just generally speaking, I knew in my head what was important to me and what I was looking for and what maybe, you know, you can give space in, because to your point, nobody's perfect. And I know that I come with my baggage and my flaws and that my fiance, Brenda, she is a saint, so she puts up with a lot of, a lot of nonsense. But again, it was just finding that, that symbiotic relationship of that are we giving each other things that we're looking for in a spouse, in a partner, in a father of our children or mother of our children. And for it was really important that, you know, we shared a faith because again, that's something that's very important in my life and is very important to hers as well. We wanted to have a family again, we both come from family, so. So to me, those were the biggest things. Right. To be quite frank. And obviously, like, it's Important that I find her attractive. I hope she finds me attractive. So, so those are things that are important. Again, like physical chemistry is really important in any relationship, regardless of, you know, what you say, could you marry an ugly saint? I'm sure you could, but that would make you a saint as well, you know. But. So, yeah, things like that were important, but to me it's like, not as much. Right. There's always going to be someone that might be a little better looking or a little taller, have a certain color hair or all these things, but if those are the most important things, then put them at the top of your list. But for me, it was like, you know, these are the values that the family, I mean, we're going to get old one day. So I want to make sure the stuff that really matters to me, that she's dedicated, she's loyal, she's faithful, she wants a family. She has these certain values and beliefs. To me, that was the most important. And once I started saying, does she have the non negotiables? Then it made it pretty easy after that. And we have a good time together. We can laugh, we can talk. And that's kind of pretty much what I knew and knew pretty quick too. I had proposed on our one year from our first date. So, yeah, it worked out really, really well. And I'm blessed to have Brenda in my life. Beauty.

Beauty. I think I was like 10 months after dating, I was like, yeah, this is, this is it. Did, did the little trip. We went back to my, my like, background and lineage is, is Scottish. And so I've always wanted to go back to Scotland, you know, big Braveheart fans, I think as. I think as a teenager growing up, I sort of had this idea of like, that sort of like Braveheart kind of love, you know, although without the tragedy, hopefully. Yes. And, and so like we went, we planned a trip to Scotland and I proposed out there and it was sort of like a. Yeah, but okay, so let's, let's shift a little bit. Let's. Let's talk about what we're here to talk about. So what. Give us, give us a little bit of context for like your background and what led you to get involved with, with Movember? Like, what was the sort of personal shift or, or desire to get involved with Movember?

Yeah. So it's kind of a funny story, actually. I was in my first year of law school. It was 2009. I just moved to Los Angeles to ATT school, and one of my buddies who was a year older than me he just said, hey, man, do you want to do Movember this year? Because, you know, I like to have a good time and do weird stuff. So I'm like, I don't know what that is. Tell me. Tell me more. Because basically we grow a mustache, we raise a little bit of money for men's health, and we have a big rip roaring party at the end of the month. And I said, that sounds like my kind of charity. As long as there's no, like, 5K or running or, like, you know, I don't. I'm like, just grow a mustache and just, you know, look. Look like a little bit creepy for a month and have a good time. I'm like, that's my cup of tea. So did it. I grew a mustache. It was awful. I don't. I don't know if I hit a second puberty since then, but it was absolutely despicable. But it was fun. I had a really great time doing it. I leaned into the. To the costume aspect of it and had a really good time. And frankly, you know, I'm a very extroverted person, outgoing. So I'm good at, you know, hitting up family and friends for some donations, raised a little bit of money, which was nice. And, yeah, so that was the first year I did Movember, and every year since then, I've participated and had a good time with it and got really ingrained into the community, the Movember community here in Los Angeles, which happens to be where our US Headquarters is located. So I also got to know some of the guys that worked here, and.

About four years ago now, I was ready for a career change. There was a spot opening up with the development team here, and I said, I pretty much work for Movember for free one month a year anyway. Might as well hire me. I can make it my career and do this all year round. So, yeah, it was. It was just kind of the perfect transition. But never had I had a charity or a cause that I really cared about. And frankly, it started just because I thought it was funny and a good time. And throughout the years, you know, the men's health issues that we represent have become more real in my life with friends, family members, some of my own things that I've struggled with. So it started out as just a good time and kind of a. A frat boy party mentality turned into a really serious part of my life and one that has become very near and dear to my heart.

Nice. Awesome. Well, maybe tell us a little bit about. Because I think, you know, from the Outside there's, you know, the, the normal perspective of what Movember is and what they, what they tackle, you know, what the organization tackles in terms of, you know, growing mustaches and raising money for charity and, you know, making sure that, that men are, are getting checked, you know, getting their, getting their testes checked and prostate checked. But I think that the organization as it's grown, has started to take on a lot of other challenges, a lot of other opportunities in terms of men's health. And so maybe just give the listener a little bit of context for what that is. Like, what are some of the areas that Movember tries to focus in on and maybe a little bit about what its core mission is.

Yeah, so our core mission is to stop men dying too young and to help men live happier, healthier, and longer lives. On average, men die six years earlier than women, and that's for largely preventable reasons. There's no biological explanation for that. So it's really getting to the core of why is that and how can we combat that. So first and foremost, we want men to take active roles in their health and well being. That's the most important thing. Because since men are dying for largely preventable reasons earlier than women, we gotta say, well, what's the difference here? And a lot of that has to do with guys aren't seeing the doctor soon enough or often enough or early enough when compared to our female counterparts. So how do we get those conversations going amongst men? How do we get guys to take active roles in their health and wellbeing? And how do we change some of that behavior that has led to this discrepancy in death rates? So at the end of the day, if we can just get guys talking and being more active, that's a win. But then the mustaches came from that as well. How do we get guys talking? Because again, guys aren't talking about these serious stuff. They're not talking about getting their prostates checked or, you know, checking their nuts in the shower, or if they're having struggles with the family or work or whatever, they're really just not talking about it. So how do we engage men? How do we get them to open up, but do it in a fun way, in a kind of more traditionally manly way? You know, maybe sitting around in a powwow circle talking about our feelings isn't the best way do it Right, but. So Movember tries to go where men are, whether that's at a bar or a barber shop or a sports club, and say, you know, this is where we can have these conversations. This is where we're already meeting. So how do we create those environments and atmospheres to get guys more comfortable talking about what's going on in their lives? The good, the bad, and the ugly. And the mustache is where it all started. Because if you're a guy that, you know is either clean shaven most of the time, or maybe you have a different facial hair situation going on, the minute you have that mustache, people, hey, what's going on, man? What's going on in your face? You know, and it really is that perfect opportunity to say, oh, doing it for Movember. Men's health, you know, did you know? And then fill in the blank that three out of four suicides are men. One in nine men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer. Testicular cancer is the most common cancer in young men. So really, just anything that can get those conversations started to open that door to have those important discussions. Movember is all about.

Yeah, it's interesting. I was doing some research earlier this year. I had a little bit of a scare. I had, like, my. This is probably TMI for my listeners, but, you know, my. Right, I had some pain in my. In my right testicle. And I was like, oh, that's a little strange. And it was during, like, right after when the pandemic started, you know, lots of stress on. On. On my side and. And whatnot. And. And I had kind of held off on it for a little while. At first it was like it would come and go and come and go, and I was like, didn't seem like there's really much of a problem. I was also, like, changed up my workout routine, and I was doing a lot of different breathwork styles. And so I think, you know, I was questioning it, but it was really interesting because even as somebody that's in this space, right. That works with men, I could feel that resistance from going in and getting checked. Right. And so I did a lot of research online, and I was surprised to see how common testicular cancer is in younger men. You know, especially men under the age of like, 35 to 37. It's. It's incredibly. It's the. It's the single most prominent form of cancer. I was like, holy.

I'm going to go get checked. Thankfully, everything's okay. But, you know, it was still one of those things where I understood why so many men don't go do it. Right. I think we're sort of conditioned to avoid those types of situations and, like, tough it out. And, you know, there's like, it's almost like we, like, we reaffirm our manliness card by roughing it out, you know, by like pushing through the pain. But I think when it comes to things like this where it could be life altering in a very significant way, there is no pride in pushing through the pain. Right? There's like, we're doing more damage than good. So I was wondering if you could speak about that. Like, how does Movember is sort of, how does. How does the organization come combat that mentality? And how do we as men start to shift, shift that conversation, you know, especially with the other men in our lives around normalizing, going to get checked and normalizing, having these conversations.

I'll use that example of testicular cancer. So April is Testicular Cancer Awareness Month. So every year in April, we run a know thy nuts campaign. So again, we're going to hit you in the face with our messaging and it's going to be one of those things like know thy nuts. Check yourself in the shower. Get hot and steamy. Here's how you do it. It's going to be a little weird and uncomfortable, but again, that's kind of how guys operate a lot of the times. So when we're, you know, showing pictures of a ball soap on a rope and saying, no, thy nuts and, you know, showing funny animated videos of how to check your testicles in the shower, again, at first it might be uncomfortable, but it's like, now it's funny, you know, now it's like part of the zeitgeist of the culture. And that's. I think what makes Movember so successful is, is we're doing things differently. And that's why people weren't talking to men before Movember came on the scene. When it came to a health perspective, if they were, it was just very, you know, just like everyone should be having their annual physical. Everyone should see a doctor if they're not feeling right. But to your point, it's like, how do we reach men specifically? And again, it's changing the conversation. It's changing the style of the conversation. It's making things a little more edgy, a little more fun, a little more irreverent. And if we can do that, then guys will feel more comfortable having these conversations because it's not the same traditional, stale way that we've been teaching people to deal with their health their entire lives, right? It's like, no, this is cool now. This is fun. Grow mustache, man. Have a good time. But while you're part of this, this fun movement and you know, this mustache club also, let's do the serious stuff together. Like, if you're not feeling okay, let's talk about it. You know, if you're having some health issues, see a doct. So it's just. It's really just doing things, approaching the situation from a different way and a new and innovative way that frankly, no one was really trying before. And I think that's what has made Movember so successful, is getting to those spots where men are starting those important discussions and really just getting them more active in their lives.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like taking the, what was that, like, dollar shave club approach to getting. Getting your nuts checked. You know, I mean, that kind of stuff is so engaging. And, And I mean, it just really hits the mark, right? Where like, we pay attention to that kind of stuff, where it's funny and it's fun. It's like, okay, all right, you know, I can, I can go do this and. But, you know, I think it is interesting because the, the culture is to like, not talk about it. You know, like, even I, like, I mean, I think I told my wife that I was having some pain, but, you know, hadn't really talked to any of my buddies. And then, you know, finally I was like, look, like, this is, this is happening. And I was like, have you noticed this? And I had a. I actually had a acquaintance that was on the podcast about a year ago who had testicular cancer when he was 30 and had his testicle removed. And so we talked about what that experience was like and, you know, what he went through and, you know, preventative health and all that kind of stuff. But it was interesting to just sort of like, feel that, that part that didn't want to like, just go and do the basic stuff, because I think we don't. We have a fear of like, well, what if something's actually wrong? You know, it's like that sort of like deep rooted fear of, like, what if something's actually wrong with the most sensitive, you know, somewhat meaningful part of my body that. That I, That I perceive to need. So what are your. What are your thoughts on that? Like, what would you say to men that feel that resistance to. To going to get checked?

I'd say make yourself uncomfortable. Because with anything, I think the only way you're going to progress in life, whether that's personally, professionally in your relationships, is making yourself uncomfortable doing the things that you know you should be doing but aren't, because you're feeling resistance in whatever form, whether that's fear, whether that's anxiety. Whether, again, fear of failure, that's a huge one, right? But if you push through that and just give it a try, because I think you'd be really surprised. One of my turning points, what kind of made Movember more real to me from the cause perspective, from the health perspective, was I went on a retreat, a men's retreat, in 2013, and didn't really know anybody there and was kind of hesitant going in, but I wanted to, wanted to get more involved in my church community. So I was like, I'll go check this out. But literally like went sight unseen, didn't know anybody there, and was very hesitant because I'm like, am I going to have to share stuff? Like, what are these guys going to be talking about? Is going to be some weird kind of ritual thing that I'm not even comfortable with. And after sitting through, it was just a 26 hour retreat. We stayed there one night and there's a lot of talks and guys sharing their stories, but I came out the other side like, whoa. And some of these guys that were sharing their stories, that were very prominent members of the community and kind of, they were, they were sharing these really deep, vulnerable things and talking about their past failures and transgressions and, you know, things that they've struggled with, and instead of feeling like, oh, wow, like they're, they're kind of a wuss, like, why would you share all that stuff? I was like, that was so brave and so powerful and like, that's the epitome of what a man is, is being so confident that you can get in front of a room, 80 guys or a hundred guys and say, here's all the shit in my life and here's how I got through it. Here's what I'm still dealing with. Here's here's. And thank you for listening. And if you need help, I'm here to help you. And any way you can help me, I will, I will gladly accept that. So I think for me, that was a real turning point in my life because again, I came out way more confident in what was appropriate and what was manly and what was courageous. So by then I'm like, this is pretty awesome. And I kind of got addicted to that feeling too, where it's like, again, I'm not spilling my heart on the corner to every stranger I meet, but in the proper situations and proper settings, allowing myself to be vulnerable and honest with guys that I trust. So friends, family members, close co workers and neighbors and acquaintances and such, that's awesome to me. And that's a feeling that I've grown to love. So once I realized that, I'm like, what have I. What else have I been missing this whole time? So using that as kind of my personal foundation and backdrop of how I live my life now, I want to share that with as many men as possible. And the fact that I have the opportunity to do that from a professional setting is just such a gift, because now I get to do this in my personal circles and with some of my buddies from college and through church and all these things. But now I get to talk to guys and girls every single day of, like, here's how we can do this. Here's how we can have this conversation. Conversations. And here's why. It's. It's not unmanly. It's the opposite. It's awesome to be courageous and vulnerable because people see that and they think, wow, this guy's brave. He's a leader. He's strong because he's revealing his flaws and his weakness. Now, again, do it when it's appropriate and when the settings proper. You don't want to be that guy, you know, whining about your problems to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that you meet. But. But. Yeah, so. So I think that just change in mindset is so important. I think once guys get a taste of that want, they want more. And I think that's what's really going to lead us to changing the face of men's health.

Yeah, I mean, we see a lot of what you're talking about at the men's weekends that we run and in the alliance, which is this membership program that we have with hundreds of men from around the world. And it's very much the same, right, where when men lean in and start to break that narrative that we. I call it the one rule of men, right? Where it's like, don't talk about. Just don't talk about it, right? It's like Fight Club, right? You don't talk about Fight Club. You don't talk about what it's like to be a man who's, you know, in pain or going through a divorce or struggling with his finances or whatever the case may be. Like, we just don't talk about those things. And yet there's a liberation there. And again, it doesn't mean that we need to do that in the grocery store with random people. But under the right circumstances and in the right spaces, it is one of the most powerful things a man can do for himself and for his life. And his family and, and every different aspect. And I think what's incredible about what you're saying is that in some ways Movember is bringing a lot of awareness and a sort of playful and fun way to these conversations in a serious way as well. That's pushing men out of their comfort zone and we need that. I think in our modern culture there are too many places that allow men to be stagnant or be really small or not have to push their edge or not have to get uncomfortable. And we put ourselves into these one dimensional versions of masculinity and manhood and I think it really restricts us. I'm curious, from your perspective and maybe from Movember's perspective, what have you seen over the pandemic? What have you seen a lot of men struggling with? And has Movember put any initiatives in place to try and help with just the real epidemic of isolation that I think a lot of men are experiencing? And I think to just add on one last piece, is that the reason why I'm asking this question is because for a lot of men, isolation emotionally, mentally, physically, from the people around them is one of the greatest killers. And I think there's been research that's shown that in the UK, for example, 50% of men couldn't identify a best friend and felt like they didn't have somebody to turn to or talk to if a real serious issue was going on. There's also this study that came out of Harvard that showed that the greatest predictor of our mental and longevity in our health, in our life is the quality of our friendships at 50. But I think if you talk to a lot of 50 year olds today, a lot of them struggle to have real meaningful relationships. I look at some of the older men that I've worked with and one of the first things I always identify is they don't have any other men in their life. They're malnourished when it comes to masculine energy and relationships. So that's a very long winded way of asking what has, what have you. And what have Movember seen men struggling with over the pandemic? And have you rolled anything out specifically?

Yeah. So loneliness and isolation are very real and it's become increasingly more apparent as this pandemic has gone on. And while we won't know kind of the statistics officially that'll come out of it for a while, it's not looking very good and.

It'S pretty dark and pretty sad, frankly. Of the things that are happening with this shutdown, when people can't Work, people can't go out. People are having limited interactions, if any, with their existing friends and family members. So it's been an incredibly tough year for a lot of people, men and women alike. And the biggest thing is to one, be resilient, be strong. I know that's very easy to say, but especially on the mental health and suicide prevention space where Movember focuses a lot of its resources and time and energy is not at the moment of crisis. There's a lot of great organizations that are dealing with suicide hotlines, getting there when things are really serious and really bad. Where Movember likes to focus its attention and efforts is upstream, more of how do we create resilient men? How do we create a network around men, a support system around men, so that not if, but when a difficult situation arises, they're more prepared to handle it, because we're all going to hit difficult spots in our lives. I know a lot of us already have, but they're never going to go away. So what are we doing to prepare ourselves for these situations? And hopefully, you know, some of the great things that Movember has done over the last 17 years are coming to fruition with a lot of our community now, where it's like, you know, they've gone above and beyond to create these networks and support systems and this resiliency so that when a thing like a pandemic does arise, something that none of us had expected, they're more ready to deal with it. They're more prepared to handle it. But for those guys that are just getting into Movember or these types of discussions, the biggest thing that I could offer, and I'm sure Movember as an organization would agree with as well, is that, you know, we're here for you, people are here for you. Reach out again. It doesn't need to be to us or to me, but anybody that you feel comfortable talking to, a friend, a family member, it could be man, a woman, it could be a teacher, a mentor, whatever. But just start talking and be vulnerable, please. Like, try to be vulnerable. Because you mentioned this, when we lead with vulnerability and opening up, that's when people will reciprocate. So if you want to know about what's going on in a friend's life, you need to start with yourself because they will be far more likely to share what's going on in their life. If you're very honest about what's going on in yours, if you're saying, hey, Mike, how you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good too.

Awkward pause. And that's what happens so often with men. But again, you don't want to overshare. You don't want to go too deep. But if you're like, oh, man, I'm doing all right, you know, I've been really struggling with this pandemic thing. I haven't been able to see my friends or, like, family members, Just little stuff that even, you know, that they're probably dealing with, too. Or, like, work sucks, man. Like, I'm struggling, like, I'm getting in arguments with my boss or just little things like that. And if you can leave those kind of. Those breadcrumbs out there for them to pick up, then they're more likely to reciprocate. And. And also, don't force the conversation either. Maybe they're not ready to talk about it. But little by little, if you continue to just plant that seed and to just revisit and check in, I think most people would be surprised how effective that is. So it may not be the first conversation, may not even be the second or third or fourth conversation, but if you're checking in and you're really, you know, being a good friend, being an open friend, one that really cares, truly cares, and wants to listen, more often than not, your friend is going to open up and tell you what's really going on, especially if you think there's something behind the scenes that may not be sitting well.

But that's more from, how do we help someone? But if it's yourself, open up, talk about it. I mean, I have the luxury of working in this space, so I have no qualms about saying, man, I'm really struggling. I had a really tough conversation with my fiance the other day. Like, listen, this pandemic is really, really getting to me. Me, like, I'm extroverted. I'm around people all the time. And to go so long and to kind of just be alone most of the time sucks. And I told him, like, when I'm with you, like, that's the happiest I am. But when I'm by myself, man, I'm really, really struggling. And again, I got really emotional. I cried. I. And. But I needed to tell someone because it was. It was tough, and it still is. But knowing that the people on the other end of my complaints or honesty or vulnerability are receptive to it, and they want what's best for me. Knowing that is just so beautiful, and it makes things much easier.

Yeah. And I think just to add to that, I think, like, you know, use a Little bit of innovation and ingenuity, right? Because we are locked down or you know, people are restricted to how they can communicate with family members and friends. Like we, we bought my father in law an iPad mini because he's completely isolated, right? He's 82 years old, he's caring for his 85 year old brother. And so we sent him the iPad. And this, this is a, has a flip phone from like the 90s. And so, you know, I had to spend a good amount of time with him, walking him through how to set it up just so that we could use FaceTime, you know. And so, but it was one of those things where like I'm going to invest in this because I think you could, you know, he, I knew he could use the support. He's completely isolated and cut off from everybody. But you know, I think it, it does beg the question because during the pandemic, but during the pandemic and during this lockdown, I've been saying and doing a lot of, just doing a little bit of talking around like how we are living through right now what I think will be one of the greatest mental health crisis the world has ever seen. We are not meant to be completely isolated. And so in many ways there's a great psychological saying that isolation makes us impotent. Not sexually, but, but mentally. Right? Psychologically, emotionally, it starts to constrict us. And we're really meant to be around people. Even if we are introvert, right? Even if we are this sort of like recluse. It can be very challenging to have this kind of isolation. And so we have to find unique ways to combat that. And we have to be able to get out into nature and to just see other people. And when we see people, to interact with them, even if it's from a distance. So maybe, you know, maybe now is the time to have those conversations with your grocer or the, or the barista at the coffee shop. But I'm curious if you can just speak to as an extrovert because I know a lot of people, I can hear the people listening to this that are the extroverts that are like, yes, this has been so freaking hard. Like how have you combat that? Have you found like what do you recommend for people that are the extroverts that are just like, you know, itching for some, for some out, you know, out time and ability to just go and be with other people. Like how, what do you recommend and how have you navigated those waters?

Yeah, I would say get creative first. Find those ways to connect with people that may not be normal to you or that you're used to, but whether it's through Zoom or FaceTime or playing games online, whatever it may be, is get creative. Again, try. Try to adjust as much as possible. And even though it may not be physical connection, try to stay in touch with the people that you care about and you want to be around as much as you can. Secondly, I would say if you have, you know, there's one or two people, like a significant other, like a family member, that you can be around physically all the time, really lean on each other for that. Because, again, like, if I didn't have my fiance in my life, who I see regularly, I would be. Frankly, I'll be honest, I'd be in pretty bad shape right now, I think. So just having her and that one person that I see frequently and that I can really just be around and be myself with and be honest with has been so, so helpful. And again, be safe, but find ways where you can connect with people. Over the last couple months, we've had a few socially distanced dinner parties. Again, I like having 30 people over and just popping champagne and, you know, watching the games together and doing all this stuff. But maybe it's just four people, maybe it's six people. Maybe you're outside, maybe. Again, I know I'm a little spoiled being in Los Angeles where we can do this, you know, in the wintertime more often than most people. But whatever it looks like, you can still find that physical presence, if not physical connection, in a safe manner. Don't be stupid about it. You know, we don't want everybody getting sick and things like that. But whatever you can do safely make it work. Because even those. Those one nights every, you know, month or whatever, where I get to see two or four of my friends in person really helps set the stage for that week. And. And what's. What's coming. So, yeah, it's tough. I mean, I. I wish I had better advice, but stay connected in whatever way possible. And this will come to an end. I'm certain it will come to an end. And what's. What's been really motivating for me is hearing a lot of people talk about this will be the Roaring twenties all over again once we're out of this. People are gonna go crazy at the bars and the restaurants and the ball games and all these things because exactly of what you said. We've been so isolated and had these feelings of loneliness for so long that we're ready to go and we'll be back. So just be patient, stick it out. And again, reach out if things are getting bad or if things are getting to a point of crisis. Touch base with a friend, a family member or a professional health professional, if possible. Yeah.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, if we're, we're going to wrap up here, but if people want to get involved with Movember, what type of programs, you know, do you, do you run outside of November and how can they get involved and what would be the best way for, for people to just learn more?

Everything starts and ends@movember.com that's where all of our resources are. That's where all of the events that we put on and the activations we take part in. But that's exactly also where you can create your own Most Base page. Whether you're going to be fundraising, whether you're going to be doing the MOVE Challenge. If you want to host an event on behalf of Movember, create a Most Base page. Put your motivation, keep in mind that man or those men that you really care about and you'll be dedicating your efforts to. But that's where everything can be done and where you can connect with other mo bros and most sisters and just have a good time. Because at the end of the day, whatever you're doing to start the conversation to spread that awareness, we're grateful for. And again, as a charity, we do rely on the generosity of our donors and fundraisers to, for the great work that they do. So if you want to support that way and do a little bit of fundraising and help us fund one of the amazing projects in mental health and suicide prevention, prostate cancer, testicular cancer, that's always much appreciated and welcomed as well. So movember.com that's your one stop shop for all things men's health and mustaches.

Awesome, my friend, awesome. Well, it's such a pleasure to have you here on the show. Thank you so much for joining me, sharing a little bit about your story and the, and the wisdom of Movember and just some of the projects that you guys have going on. So thank you so much for joining me. For everybody that's out there listening, we will have the links for you in the show notes so you can check out more from Movember.com and don't forget to share this episode with a few, a few people that you know would like to tune into this and could benefit from this conversation. Don't forget to leave us a rating review. And until next week, this is Connor Beaton signing off. Join me next week for another inspiring conversation with another inspiring individual.