Why Men Push Love Away - Live Coaching Session

All right my friend, welcome to the Mantalk show. And this is one of those men's work sessions. So we'll be diving in with you.

Tell me a little bit about why you signed up, what you're here to work on, what you're struggling with or want to address.

Yeah, yeah, I signed up after.

Got divorced several years back and always had had some relationship issues maybe during the marriage, obviously we got divorced, but after the marriage it became even more apparent.

It was just hard to have the relationships that I wanted.

And really feel like comfortable with them and like, like I don't know what I would think of other 40 year old men. You know, I think they have probably healthy relationships and look at my own and they're all like crumbling all around me and it's just kind of like what the hell's wrong with me?

So yeah, I joined.

Worked with some other coaches, but also joined the men's group just because the more I did this work, the more I started just hearing other guys having the same sorts of issues and was really interesting as I joined the group that the amount of guys going through similar stuff, working almost copy and paste their answers to questions and just found it almost, I guess helpful just to see other guys going through similar sorts of issues in life around the same age and probably the same sort of demographic as me.

You'd mentioned before we jumped on that there was another man's story that hit home with you. Can you just say a lot, little bit about the similarities and what resonated with you about his story?

Yeah, yeah, it was listening to your podcast, I just heard you talking to, to another man and asking, asking him about the relationship with, with his, his dad. And I was driving as I was listening to it and some of those answers that he was giving were just really hitting home. And as I was kind of answering your own questions myself, the like the emotional response that, that I had to those answers, it really hit me that you know, as good as I.

Comparatively, my wife was pretty good compared to a lot of other people in the world. I had a roof over my head. Never had to worry about meals, clothes, anything like that. But then these other issues that are deeper rooted, other people just going through those same sorts of things, the same feelings were just kind of buried inside their body.

From loosen mid perspective perspective like the relationship with their dad and how that affected them going into adulthood.

What, what felt similar between your relationship with your father and that man's relationship to his father?

It was probably the.

Certainly not I wasn't neglected As a kid. But the way that.

Your emotional needs could just be completely. Someone can be so unaware of your emotional needs as just another human.

And yeah, it was a lot of his, his responses to questions. I had the same response in my head as I was answering the questions myself.

Okay, you said something along the lines of what's wrong with me? That I can't make my relationship work. My relationships work. Can you elaborate on, and I'm going to use the heavy air quotes, but can you elaborate on what you think is wrong with you that causes you to not be able to have your relationships work?

Yeah, there was definitely a pattern before getting married, after getting married where it'd be probably about three to six months into a relationship I just check out and there'd be no real apparent reason other than I just would lose interest in some way of that person.

Might be, you know, I'd cause fights. I'd find some kind of, you know, insecurity to, to hone in on and, and use that as a wedge to drive us apart. It was pretty consistent looking throughout, like my life. Just the closer I got to somebody, the harder it was to actually keep that relationship together and the bigger blow up of ending it would be. Yeah.

Do you have a sense of what you are protecting in yourself or what you're resisting about relationship that when you get closer to them, it feels like you have to then distance yourself? Like what don't you want them to see or know about you?

H.

Probably. I mean, I guess a lot. You know.

It'S nice getting through that like initial like phase with somebody where you get to kind of be the person you want to be to them. But then after several months when some of that mask starts coming off and.

I want to be that strong person that's likable.

Laugh with you and have fun.

And.

Do those things that are just kind of fun loving. But then I think at a certain point you start getting a little bit deeper and it's not just all fun loving. It's like, you know, there's like a different person behind that and that, that gets a little vulnerable.

And.

There is that part that doesn't want to actually be seen and then let down and hurt.

Yeah. So if I, if I commit to you, if I love you, if I let you see me, I'll have to touch the pain of my own childhood.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't just.

Hide behind some anger over something. You know, it's like you can actually touch that pain.

Say what's happening as you talk about it. Right now inside of you.

Oh, I feel, like, the nervousness. Like a tingling in my. In my stomach and a little bit of tightness in my chest.

Yeah. It seems like you. You touched it right there.

Right, Right. You.

You can feel. I can see in your eyes now, you know, the sadness and the grief. So just take a breath into it. You're doing great.

Yes.

And just say what's happening inside of you. Make a statement from that place.

Peace.

Feels even scary just starting to say those. Say those things.

Because it is kind of like exposing that, like, real person underneath that, there is somebody that can be hurt.

Yeah. Tell me more about then. Just keep breathing into that part. I don't want you to move away from it. Just see if you can stay with that grief and that sadness that's underneath the surface. Because my guess is that in relationship, that's what you're running from. That's what you don't want a woman to see. You don't want her to see the part of you that's hurt.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not a strong part.

Right. Yeah. So I don't want. How would you frame that? I don't want you to see my weakness. I don't want women to see my weakness.

Yeah. I don't want you to see my weakness.

So stay with that. Take a breath in.

And just make one more statement from your status.

I don't want to.

Even express something I don't totally understand myself.

Understood. Got it. Okay, so.

I'm gonna just make a.

A good guess here. Okay. And I just want you to let what I'm about to say hit you and really let it do something to you. Okay. So close your eyes again and just stay with that sadness inside of you and that tingling in the belly.

So my guess is that this is the part of you that never really had a place with dad.

And that this is the part of you that you were terrified to expose or express.

With him.

Yeah.

Let's just breathe into that. Let that come.

Just say what's happening.

Lot a lot more tingling going on. That tightness kind of expands.

Look, another breath.

And then from there, just make a statement to dad. Just directly to him. What do you want him to know from here?

I want him to know that I was really alone.

And say.

Say directly to him. I want you to know, Dad. I want you to know and let yourself be affected by what you're saying. It's right there. You're doing good.

Dad. I want you to know that I was really alone.

You ignored Me, when I asked for attention.

Out of breath.

Say what that was like for you.

It was hard.

Be scary. Lose its temper. And a heartbeat.

Another breath in. So, dad, you were. You were frightening.

Dad, you were frightening.

And I made it mean that there was something wrong with me.

I made it mean there was something wrong with me.

So again, let that affect you. Let that do something to you.

And just see that boy that was terrified of being around dad.

You can see him in his bedroom or in the living room or wherever he would come to. Try and get away from.

Dad'S anger, disappointment.

And just make a statement to him. What do you want to say to that boy?

You don't have to hide.

None of that's about you.

Take a breath. Doing good.

And just breathe. Breathe into your heart for a moment.

And same it's happening to the grief and the sadness in your body.

Grief and sadness kind of goes away.

As I, you know, kind of feel my heart expand with that. That.

It wasn't that little kid's fault. There was nothing he did.

Yeah, it wasn't my fault.

It wasn't my fault.

It's nothing that I did.

It's nothing I did.

Sounds like you've been blaming yourself for a long time, though, buddy. A long time. And it really sounds like you are a good son.

And that you just. You actually needed your dad to tell you, you're a good kid. You're a good son.

I'm glad that you're my son.

Let that hit you. It's okay.

Every boy needs to hear that. You deserved to hear that.

And take a breath and just tell your dad what you actually needed to hear from him. What words did you need to hear? What did you need from him?

I wanted to hear I love you.

I'm proud of you.

You're awesome. You did a great job.

Another deep breath.

And again, just say what's happened inside. So I'm with you. And keep letting it come up. You're doing good.

It's actually kind of dizzying in a way. Whatever. Whatever's going on there, it's like dizzying. I have to find my. My center of balance right now.

It's okay. Yeah, just let that be. It's okay to feel a little dizzy.

Take another deep breath. In.

Good. And out.

It's easy to get disoriented when we've had to hold down how we feel for so long.

And the intensity of what we're feeling starts to come up.

So take another breath.

What else do you want to say to your dad?

I'M mad he wasn't there for so many things.

I'm mad at you, dad, for not being there for so many things.

Wish you hadn't turned your back. Like what? Yeah, when did. He was on the. He was on a cycling team when I was like seven. Was my next door neighbor. Had to teach me how to read a. Ride a bike.

Why won't you teach your own kid to ride a bike?

Breath. Okay, keep going. Keep going.

And sh it up. Remember, like, learning to do it, like, out of anger. You, I'll ride this bike with. Without you.

Yeah, let that come up. You're doing good.

Say it again.

You see you.

You for what you for.

You for running away. You for hiding.

You for not stepping up, being a dad.

Keep letting it out. Keep letting it go. You can clench your fists. You can clench your fist. You can hold on to something if you want. If you got arms on the chair or desk in front of you. You actually just. You can let a little bit of that out in the sound. Like you.

You.

You for not trying.

Would you ever do that to your son if you had a son?

No, I've got two. I'd never do that. Uhhuh.

Yeah. So tell them that.

Yeah.

I would never get to my kids, dad. I'd never make them feel alone. I'd never make them feel questioning. If you love them.

Why you aren't in their lives.

A deep breath. Deep breath. And just let a little bit out. In sound.

Yeah. Again. A little bit more.

Yeah.

What else? You for.

You for ruining Christmas. You for breaking all our toys with a hammer.

Keep going. Just keep on it up. You for not teaching me how to ride a bike. You for always being gone. You for bringing my toys. Keep going.

Yeah. You for always being gone.

You for never walking me to school across the street.

You for putting everyone else in. In front of us.

Take a breath. Say what's happening inside of you right now. In your chest, in your throat. What's happening?

Feel my heartbeat picking up. I feel that tension rising up my throat.

That.

Keep letting it come up and just speak right from there. What does it want to say to him?

It's angry, but just wants to.

Wants to understand. Just say it. I get it.

You had your own issues.

We were dealing with just giving up on us.

And it still wasn't okay.

And it still wasn't okay.

It still wasn't okay.

You had your own shit. Still wasn't okay.

Yeah. Yeah. You had your own shit and it still wasn't okay.

Take a breath.

So I became the father I needed you to be.

I became the father I needed you to be.

I am the father I needed you to be.

Say what that's like.

Yeah, let that come, buddy. Let it come. It must be so hard sometimes to see your boys get the love and the treatment that you as a kid really, really wanted.

Yeah.

The most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Keep letting that come up. Keep letting yourself be affected by what you're going through.

What would happen if your dad saw you express yourself like this when you were growing up?

The kid getting angry, they could shut down. Think it blames something else.

Well, I just want you to know you don't have to do that with me. You're not too much for me right now. Your anger is not too much. Your grief is not too much.

I'm not going to shut down.

See what that's like.

Relieving.

There's the tension. Weight on my chest just evaporates.

Another deep breath.

So you had to withhold a lot from him?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Couldn't be too expressive. Could be too unexpressive. Straighten the moon or.

Or what? What would happen?

Oh.

There are a lot of times you just would throw things up and quit. Just.

You know, run McDonald's. I mean, I want to order right away. We're at the drive through and he just drove off.

Breath.

So I have to get it right, otherwise people will leave me.

Yeah.

When would he.

When would he love you? When would he acknowledge you? If ever.

Had a really good basketball game.

Scored 20 points.

He'D really be happy about that.

So dad would love the version of me that he wanted?

Yeah.

Out of breath.

Same as happening inside.

Just so I'm with you.

It's like.

Feel this part of me that.

Kind of. In my teenage years or what, like. Yeah, he really did just want, like that version of me that he wanted me to be.

And we became the exact opposite. My teenage years.

Shocking.

Shocking.

Yes.

I just heard Rage against the Machine, you know, like you. I won't do what you tell me.

That was like one of the CDs I owned back then, I bet. Might have been a couple years later, but I. I blew my eardrums to that. That cd.

So. Just notice what's wrong with me that I can't make this work with dad?

What's wrong with me that I can't make this work with women?

Nothing wrong with you, buddy.

Take a breath in. Just let that hit you.

Playing out the same cycle with women. What's wrong with me that I Can't make this work. Something's wrong with me.

Gotta push them away so that they don't see it.

I feel that.

What would happen when things were secure with dad, when things just found like, were there other times where there was ease or was it always high stress? High tension.

Wasn'T until like my late, late teenage years and he actually got divorced.

Until there was things were. Could be at ease. I was probably 17, 18.

I never quite learned to trust that feeling, though it was short lived. Two years, I'm off to college.

Deep breath in.

I don't know.

Are you dating anybody right now?

Yeah.

Okay. How long?

Three years.

Okay.

Little on and off. The past year, it's been all on.

Are you comfortable with sharing her name or. No, that's.

Yeah. Gail. Gail.

Okay. So just again, breathe into your heart.

And now.

And if Gail had heard this whole thing, this whole cycle that we just went through, talking about dad and what it was like for you as a kid.

Just make a statement from your heart to Gail. What would your heart want to say to her?

Sorry.

Sorry. Put that.

That wall up between us.

And you know, you want to see beyond that.

I made it really difficult at times.

That has nothing to do with you. It's been protecting something that I can't even understand.

Well, say what you've been protecting. What have you been protecting.

Yourself from? Having to show her. And what you've been protecting her from seeing in you.

It can see this feeling of disappointment.

Then I'll let you down.

I'm not. I'm not good enough. Not strong enough.

Yeah. There is something wrong with me.

Yeah. I've been protecting you from seeing any of my imperfections.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think I need to be perfect in order to be loved.

Yeah.

How's that working?

Yeah.

Makes it hard.

Yeah. You know what stands out to me is this notion of if you knew the real version of me, you wouldn't love me.

Yeah.

Because the real version of you didn't get embraced growing up.

He didn't get to be in relationship, especially with dad.

Yeah.

So just say what's happening inside right.

Now.

Feels like, you know, confusion trying to like, run through my head. Think about the times I. I got a hug when I needed one and I don't remember it.

How awkward it is now to say, hey, I love you, dad.

How does he respond?

I don't know. We don't do it.

Ah, okay.

He's still alive today.

Yeah.

What's your relationship with him like now?

I'll bring my kids over to see him once a month, and we kind of chat for an hour.

I try to talk to him, just keeping. Keep in touch so my kids can see their grandpa.

He's a lot more.

Calm.

I think the house we grew up in was very toxic between my mom and my dad was horrible. I think just him getting out of there himself probably changed a lot for him.

At some point, maybe he forgot what he was so angry about.

Have you ever told him what you didn't like about your childhood?

Now he gets upset. I jokingly mentioned something before, and.

He just kind of threw up his hand and said, oh, it's all my fault. It's all my fault.

So he has a lot of guilt and shame about how he acted, I think. So.

Take another breath.

What do you hope that your sons.

Tell you one day when they're 30, I love you.

I want them to call me up, say, hey, you know, I met a girl, or, you know, got. Call me up and tell me about their life and we get to talk.

Well, I'm sure that you'll have that with them.

Yeah.

What stopped you from engaging with your father in the way that you want on your terms?

You just always feel negative.

You know, he's a very smart guy. He's a doctor. If.

I brought up some idea for, you know, making money or business, it would pretty much be a dumb idea. Unless you were a doctor. Yeah.

Understood.

So just take one last breath.

And.

All I want you to do is just picture that version of you as a boy.

Maybe 6 or 7 years old or 5 or 8.

And really connect to the father that's in you.

The man that knows how to parent, who doesn't always get it right, isn't perfect, but knows how to parent a boy.

And just make a statement to him, that younger version of you.

So much of it. I want to give you a hug.

I love you. I don't know why.

I don't know why your dad doesn't want to wrestle or play or even seemingly talk to you. You're awesome, though. You're so much fun.

How this awesome energy.

Best wrestler I know.

Yeah.

You were a good son.

You're an awesome son.

I'm proud you're me.

There's nothing wrong with you.

There's nothing wrong with Buddy.

So just visualize yourself. Give him a hug. Pick him up.

And just say how he's responding, please.

Nice. He's hugging tight.

Holding on.

Hey. Yeah.

The neck squeeze or the around the ribs.

Honestly, around the neck.

Head. Head kind of buried into mine. Yeah.

So just Let that.

Let that sink into you.

Let that really sink into you. He doesn't have to be alone anymore.

He doesn't have to believe that he's the problem in relationship anymore.

Any final things you want to say to him?

Just that, really, just. That hug feels so good.

Just a. Such a strong little boy. Yeah. Really proud of you.

Anything that he'd want to say back to you?

He just.

Felt scared. It's just feels really warm to have, like, you know, man, the hug. Feel safe with that. Yeah.

So breathe in.

And now.

And just let all of that start to dissipate. Really hold on to that feeling of embracing him.

And take a bit of a somatic screenshot. Really let your body remember this feeling and this sensation. Remember what it's like.

And just stay with that for a moment. Something you can come back to at any point.

That this is.

This is a part of you that's needed some attention and some love.

And to not be hidden in relationship.

And.

Not be responsible for the relationship.

That younger version of you. So take one final deep breath in.

Exhale it out.

Good. One more of those.

And out.

And then just slowly, slowly make your way back in. Remember the room and the space that you're in. What's in front and behind you. Just visualize that.

And then come on back into the call at your own pace.

How you doing?

Wow.

It'S kind of wild. I'm back seeing the screen here.

My whole head was, like, twisted there for a minute. I mean, I know I. I could have fallen off a chair and felt too bad. Uh, man, I thought my eyes were like, here and here. Yeah, it was.

Reorienting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, you know, everybody has different experiences, but sometimes it shows how off center.

We are, you know?

And I think part of it is that you've had to hide so much of yourself. You've had to literally suppress or repress large parts of who you are in relationship. And part of that is we push things under the surface. And so I think part of that disorientation that you're feeling or that you were feeling when we were doing that is we were bringing a lot of that hidden stuff up to the surface. And so it didn't need to be pushed down anymore.

So the second thing is you said something.

In the beginning.

Either before we hit record or once we started, something along the lines of, like, how the fuck did he miss all that with me? How did he miss teaching me how to ride the bike? How did he miss what I needed? How do you miss Just telling me, did he love me or that he was proud of me? How do you miss all that? And it's common for a lot of men that were neglected by growing up to then neglect themselves in relationship. And neglect isn't always. It's not just exclusively. Here's what I want and need. We. Some can sometimes neglect that, but we can neglect bringing forward who we truly are, what we're struggling with, what we desire, what we're afraid of. And those things get hidden. And so I think for you, what I'd really encourage you to do is to ask yourself the question and do some writing around, what parts of me do I want Gail to know? What have I been withholding and really hiding from her?

And for some men, that's joy and love and appreciation and, you know, adoration of their partner. I see that a lot. Where men end up becoming the withholders, right? They received withholding, and then they end up becoming withholders of that love. And other versions of it is that they end up withholding themselves. So it's like, I'll give you the manicured version of me, you know, I'm going to give you the performative version of me with the mask, but I'm not actually going to give you the real shit. I'm not going to tell you any of this stuff that might threaten the connection. Because to expose that growing up was to. Was to expose yourself to real rejection or punishment or harshness or criticism or pain of some sort. And the repair comes in being able to express those parts of yourself, to start to expose some of those elements of who you actually are and have them be loved and received and accepted.

So I think it'll be important for you to identify some of those things of like, well, what do I actually withhold from her? You know, what do I not express? What do I not share? What do I not expose? Now, this isn't about complete disclosure, right? This isn't like, say, every thought and express. That's not it. Okay? It's there. There is such a thing as over sharing, overexposing. And that can be its own kind of harmful to a relationship. And there's actually. There's actually research on that. So, you know, when we withhold too much, it can be harmful to the relationship. When we expose everything and our, you know, that kind of stuff, it can be harmful as well. So. But I want you to find some of the things that you genuinely want to bring into the relationship that you genuinely want her to know about you, and then to start to Bring those things in. And maybe it's just starting with, hey, you know what? I'm realizing how much I actually withhold. And I would like to hear what that's been like for you. And if you're open to it, I'd like to start to bring some things forward.

Yeah.

Does that sound reasonable?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions?

Yeah. Snide remarks.

It'll be hard to find some of those things, you know, just.

In digging into it, you know, just. They're kind of hidden from myself as well.

But, no, I'm. I'm excited to start doing that and kind of scratch the surface on those things.

Did you touch them today?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of times that we're right there to feel that I was really holding back things I wanted to say, just how I was. I was. I was. I felt in a moment, you know, and I think just something as simple as that. Just. Just saying it. Not. Not coming out with anger or something like that. Just saying it, like, you know. Yeah. Hey, I'm feeling a little neglected here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Not that she neglects me. She's. She's very good. Yeah, yeah. I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The. I don't. I don't like that. You know, I didn't like that.

Or. Here's what I'd really love. I mean, practice those statements. Here's what I'd really love. I didn't like that. That wasn't okay with me. Here's what I'd really like. Here's what I want you to know about how I'm doing right now. Just start to practice some of those things. Because.

When, again, when neglect happens, we. We become withholders, and. And we. We end up neglecting our own wants, needs, sense of self, et cetera. So I think as you just tune into some of those.

Yeah.

Pieces, it'll help you reveal it in the moment. And then it won't be this big mystery or, you know, treasure hunt. It'll just be, oh, in the moment. Like, oh, here's what I need. Here's what I want. I didn't like that those types of things will help it be real time versus some, you know, archeological dig.

Yeah. Yeah. I think just listening to those feelings in the body.

That started off. Yeah. I think that tightness in my chest. Hey. What. There's some tightness to my chest here. What don't I like about this? So good. Yeah.

Good stuff, brother. All right, my friend.

I like it. Man, that was. That was wild.

Good work today. And if you need anything, follow up. I'd love for you to actually follow up in, like, a week or two and just let me know how things are going and check.

Absolutely.

And. Yeah, so I'll do that for today. If you need anything in the future, just hit me up. All right?

All right. Thanks. That was awesome. You got it.