Why Relationships Can’t Be 50/50 with Monica Yates

All right, Monica, welcome to the Man Talk Show. How you doing today?

I am doing so well. Thank you, Connor, for having me.

Yeah. Long time coming. Long time coming. How's motherhood treating you?

Honestly, it is the best. We were saying this before we clicked record, but being a parent and like, you know, being a mother is just the most expansive experience that I think a woman can ever go through. And somehow I just keep finding more patience, more love, more nervous system regulation. And I have been saying to some friends and clients that I know that the cultural landscape of motherhood these days on social media can be quite negative, but I have had the opposite experience. I think a lot of it is mindset as well. But just like you get these superpowers, becoming a mom that you would never get no matter how many seminars you went to or anything like that. Like, the mum productivity superpower is the most epic thing. And so I'm loving it.

That's awesome. Yeah, I've noticed, I've noticed more and more online this narrative of life's better without kids, having kids as a woman, you know, makes you less happy. And there's all this type of rhetoric that I'm seeing, and I'm sure we're gonna get to that. I don't want to dive into that quite yet, but it's. It's been fascinating for me to watch this almost like a pushing of a narrative to not have children. And that as a woman, you are somehow, you know, you're somehow like diminishing yourself by having children. And. Yeah, we'll get into that. So let's, let's maybe just start, like you said, that modern women are living against their nature. So what do you mean by that? Modern women are living against their nature. And how might that be impairing their mental health or their sense of happiness?

Well, just from a biological standpoint, you know, we as women are extremely different from men. You just, even if you just looked at our hormones, right, we are predominantly estrogen and progesterone. You guys are predominantly testosterone. And women these days are. A lot of us are living in a very hyper masculine energy, which actually, if you go and get your bloods done as a, as a woman, if you're very hyper masculine, you'll actually find that you probably have testosterone dominance or estrogen dominance, and that's then not in a good way, right? You're having this kind of hormonal imbalance that's literally your body telling you you're living out of alignment. And we've kind of been pushing this narrative for so long. It started off in a, in a positive way of like women, you know, getting into the workforce and allowing themselves to do what they wanted to do and have their rights and all of that kind of stuff. But it's almost like the pendulum has swung so far where now women are feeling like we have to be like men in order to be seen as worthy enough, successful. Like the example that I am now kind of using quite often is like, it doesn't make you any less successful as a woman if you are breastfeeding your child in the boardroom, on a call, at a seminar, whatever it is. I was recently talking on a panel actually at an event. And the event, Hannah that was running the event, she's like, do you want to breastfeed trip on stage? Because she was like, so here for the like iconic moment. And I was like, he's going to be way too sidetracked. But I, I wish I could have done it because, you know, even just that narrative of us thinking it makes us less professional. And if you kind of go deeper into it, for the most part, it's because we're thinking that we have to be like men in order to be seen as professional rather than realizing that being a woman, being in alignment with our feminine energy and our biology. And when I say feminine energy, I don't mean the kind of cookie cutter black and white. You have to wear a frilly dress. We can get into that later. When you're in that state, you are your most magnetic, healthy, aligned, radiant, radiant self. And so, yeah, like when, when we look at the landscape today, a lot of women are just living outside of their nature because they're thinking it's going to make them somehow more worthy or more of a girl boss if they are operating more like men. And we're feeling the effects of it. I mean, look how many women are struggling with falling pregnant that have endometriosis, pcos. Like our bodies are screaming and we're not listening.

Yeah, it is interesting that there's this big push to, for, for women to have independence and to be successful. And the, it's almost like there's this, there's this encouragement that how you should go about that is moving away from feminine or female standards or values or biologies and, and sort of adopt this more male oriented way of being. And so I, I see a lot of these women, you know, it's like, I know a lot of these women that are like super successful but lonely, you know, and they can't seem to make a Relationship work. And, you know, they've been through two or three divorces, or they just cycle through a man, and it's always, you know, the man's fault. And that's a generalization. Not every woman in that space struggles with that. But I do think that there's this. There's this very interesting part of the narrative that I think women are told, which says something along the lines of, you should be able to operate however you want, and. And men should still find you attractive. And it's like, well, there actually are some characteristics and traits that a lot of men are not going to find attractive or that if you can't switch out of them and you're. You're kind of stuck in this one mode that. That might diminish attraction or you're going to.

Women will do the same to men, right? Like, we all say, oh, we don't want this, we don't want that. Ew, this. Ooh, that. Towards men. Or, like, where's all the chivalrous men gone? And I'm like, right, right. And I'm like, you've kind of dug yourself your own hole, right? And so it's funny how women will say, like, you know, it's unfair that men want XYZ and a woman, but here we are having cocktails with the girls, doing the exact same thing to men, but somehow they're not allowed to ask the same of us.

Yeah, it's. Well, I think, on that note, let's. Let's shift a little bit into the question of feminism, because it would seem that, you know, in your view, has feminism. Has feminism shifted from creating genuine equality to unintentionally dividing men and women or encouraging women to be more in a male orientation, which is creating a rift. Like, how. How would you say that feminism is sort of. Is the intention still there of just creating equality and equity?

So, great question. And I talk about this a lot in my book because from a glimpse, if you're listening to this podcast, which you obviously are, you might think, you know, oh, X, Y, Z about feminism, there's still, for example, a wage gap. Well, actually, there isn't. If you really. And I talk about this in the book, if you really read the research, for example, in the US we'll just talk about the US There is no wage gap. And I'm not talking. When I'm talking about feminism, I am not talking about. And, like, this problem that you've mentioned, Connor, we're not talking about, you know, women should just be, you know, not allowed to vote and staying at home and blah, blah. We're not talking about that. We're talking about radical feminism. We're talking about how feminism has actually gone so far from the original definition. Feminism was actually created for men and women, and it's gone so far from the original definition that, for example, we now think it's, you know, feminism is women are more worthy, more successful, looked more highly upon if they are working and if they are just quote, unquote, just keyword a stay at home mom, and they're choosing that, they're somehow less than. So, like, that's not feminism. Because what we've, what we've done is we are tell. We are still telling women what they should be doing in order to be seen as a worthy woman and somehow being quote, unquote, just a stay at home mom is less worthy. So when we're talking about this sort of feminism, yeah, I mean, it's caused a lot of problems. I completely believe it's created a manhunt. I think that women a lot of the time now are, you know, when we're talking about the women that are still fighting for feminism, they're fighting, in my opinion, for the sake of fighting. We've become so addicted to victimhood culture that it is easier to continue to complain than actually, and I'm saying this as the breadwinner also, for anybody listening, I'm not. I'm not, you know, a frilly dress, baking muffins all day. I run a business. I am the breadwinner. My husband works for the business. So feminism has gotten me to where I am. Right. All women here listening can appreciate where feminism has gotten us to. But now it's putting these pressures on us that we don't want. Women are exhausted. We all are complaining about the mental load and how burnt out we are. But we're also, you know, expecting ourselves. And society is putting on us that we should be working. We should be this girl boss. We should also be crushing it at motherhood. We shouldn't be having like a whole support system as though it's less than to have a nanny and a cleaner and a housekeeper. You know, we've completely lost the village. All of those things that brought so much happiness to women. And then we see that play out in our relationships. You know, men are unhappy also as a result of this because what is, where is the purpose for men anymore? I know you can talk so much on this, Connor. Back in the day, men knew what their purpose was. They brought home the bread, they kept the Roof over our head. And now women are like, well, I don't need a man. I can do it all myself. Right? We can pay our bills and have our own orgasm. So it's like, well, then we can have our own babies if we want to. We don't even need men. And that's making men feel like they have no purpose. And so of course, they are then slipping into being in, you know, this wounded feminine energy, not being the masculine. Then the women are at the same time being in their masculine, but also complaining, he's not masculine enough. I have to do everything. And it's just this vicious cycle over and over and over again because it takes two to tango. And I think we're really quickly just pointing the blame at men all the time. And, you know, I did this survey, gosh, like, I started the survey back in 2019 when I first started writing my book. And it was an anonymous survey just giving men the opportunity to share, like, what's on their heart. And I have put a lot of the chunks in my book. It is heartbreaking, Connor. And, and you would know this because you hear, hear it, you know firsthand. It is heartbreaking what some of the men now think about being a men. It is heartbreaking that men are just scared of being men. But at the same time, these good men, they're wanting to help us. They're not trying. Like them giving us a compliment isn't them trying to get into our pants. They're genuinely just like, you look nice today. And we immediately go, you know, straight to this.

You're a misogynist. Yes, you misogynist. How dare you.

But then at the same time, we want the compliments. I saw this real actually the other day. Oh, my God. It was just like, it was such a kicker. This woman got get on, gets on her phone and she does this whole complaining thing about this guy cat calling her and telling her that she was wasn't even Cat calling. This guy came up to her and told her she was beautiful. Like, what the hell? This guy is such a creep. Blah, blah, blah. And the comments were hilarious because there was actually a bunch of men that had jumped in and been like, but at the same time, you're wanting this. Like you're. You're then complaining to your girlfriends, men aren't coming up to women anymore and asking us out or complimenting us or saying, you look nice. And so men, truly men are saying these days, I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. So they're just going, you know what? I'd rather not have a lawsuit and lose my whole reputation. So I'm just going to do nothing.

Yeah, well, so there's a couple, there's a couple of like, I think really important points in there, which I want to go back to the wage gap one because I think it's also good to just drop some of the research in there and the data. And when you look at the data in every, in maybe not every single, but in almost all of the major metropolitan metropolis cities in America, women are out earning men and women, 41 of.

Women are breadwinners these days of the family in the U.S. yeah.

So you have women out earning men in all major cities. You have, you know, the majority of houses that are being bought BY People under 40 are being bought by women. You have. Right. 41% of the households, women are the breadwinners. So you have this massive cultural and social economic shift. And it is interesting to notice how a lot of the, the narrative is just, well, men just need to be better. And it's like, but your expectations haven't changed. You know, it's like if you want to get into a position where you know, you are making 250 grand a year, 100 grand a year and you're out earning the majority of men, but you still want a man and all of your girlfriends who make that amount of money still want a man to earn as much as them, if not more. You're in a precarious because the type of man that you are then wanting to date or marry or potentially have kids with, had that, that dating pool has constricted so much. And then on top of that, who's to say that that type of man is going to be with the, with the woman who has oftentimes the characteristics that are much more aggressive and assertive and unwilling to hear feedback and competitive. And I see this all the time with men where they' yeah, I, I really like that woman. But it was like kind of being in the locker room with another dude or like, you know, she was, she was trying to compete with me and it was kind of weird, you know. And I remember when I went, I'll just tell one thing, I want to hand it over. I remember when I went on one of my first dates with my wife and she used to play competitive, like Division 1 lacrosse, you know, so she was very competitive. And in one of our first dates we went, I, I can't remember. It was like a restaurant or a bar, something like that. And they had the basketball thing where you could, like, shoot hoops, and this like, hyper competitive side of her came out, and all of a sudden, you know, she's like, trying to compete with me. I'm like, I'm not interested in, like, I'll play with you and we'll have fun, and this is a game, but I'm not interested in being in this, like, masculine competition, you know, belt notch thing with you. Like, that's. That's not the type of relationship. And I. I remember having that conversation with her. I'm like, I'll play with you, I'll have fun with you and engage in whatever game you want. But I'm not interested in being in this, like, hyper competitive thing because I've seen how in relationships between men and women, that never goes well, you know, just doesn't well.

So just from like, even like a, you know, men respecting woman standpoint, you aren't. I can't imagine you kind of like bashing the ball out of her hands like you would with your guys as you're playing basketball. So it's like, okay, well, she's. Of course she's gonna win and it's not gonna be fun for her anyway because you are not gonna show up the way that you would if you were playing with your guys, right? And that's a whole other thing, right, of like, why men and women shouldn't play sports together and all of that. But I want to touch on something that you were saying about, like, the whole breadwinner thing, because I talk about this a lot, Connor, around, you know, women now being the breadwinners, and not even just being the breadwinner, but contributing a large part of money to the family, right? Where there is this pressure on women, where if they were working, if they weren't contributing, then their lifestyle wouldn't be what it is to some extent. And the whole expectation thing, a lot of my clients will similarly kind of think that, well, I have to be dating a man that is making more than me in order for the dynamics to be there, in order for, you know, me to be the feminine, him to be the masculine. And that's just not the case at all because it's not about the money. And this is like a whole mindset change for both men and women these days, right? It's not just women now making all this money and being the breadwinners. It's also now men not being the breadwinners. So, you know, we can't just, you know, when I'm talking about this, it's like it's not just for the women, it's also a whole new world for the men. We're all trying to navigate this for the first time. And so as a woman you need to change your expectations, but not even expectations. I would say, like change what you're focusing on. That equals him providing and protecting. So even though, and I always have been since I started dating my husband and when we first started dating, he was working in Delta at Delta in like the corporate, whatever you call it, in like data and analytics and he was making like a, you know, really good salary but I was out earning him by a lot because obviously I remain in business and the case is still the same. But I wasn't looking for a man that made more money than me because I don't want a man that makes more money than me but is never around because he's working all the time. I don't want a man that makes more money than me and then I'm not, you know, necessarily motivated to make more. I don't want a man that's making more money than me but then doesn't help with the kids. That's just not something that I personally am interested in. I, for me, I like working, I like making a lot of money. And so for me I didn't need a man making more. For other women, they might go, well, actually I don't want to work. I want to find a man where we can solely rely on his income because I would love to be a full time mom. Then your priorities are obviously different but then you have to focus on shifting as a woman and then as the man, you're focusing on embodying these things. You know, I'm focusing on seeing how he provides and protects in non financial ways. So you know, him even just locking up the house at night, him planning every single holiday, him, you know, him coming in and setting up the podcast. So I'm not worrying about like text off and I just get to sit here and drink my tea before we get on. Like those are the ways where I get to be in my element and he's in his element. And so for the men listening, you need to make sure if you're not out earning your woman and even if you are like the providing and protecting goes way beyond money, how are you providing and protecting her in ways that are non financial? Because that's really where we need to focus on. Especially because so many women these days are asking more from men.

Yeah, I think that's part of the challenge is that it does seem to be confusing, you know, And I think where. And I'm not saying that we need to go back to anything. Like, I think anytime these conversations come up, it's. It's often met with a good amount of hostility of, like, oh, you just want to take things back to the 1950s people.

Yeah. The people are like, oh, my God, she's just promoting a tradwife culture. And I'm like, do we see me? Because I'm definitely not.

Yeah, I think. I think that's one of the reasons why I appreciate having this conversation with you, because it's. It is more expansive. You're not saying, hey, just like, you know, get back in the kitchen and make some banana bread and have some kids. Like, that's not what you're saying. And I do think that there's come back to what I was saying. I do think that there's a good amount of confusion, both from men and from women. You know, like, I. I see a lot of young men being like, what do women want? Like, this is so confusing because you have this huge spectrum of some women wanting to be the trad wives, some women wanting to make a lot of money, but then have a man who still makes more money than them and provides for them financially. And, you know, and then there's kind of like a gray area in between where there's a whole bunch of women that just really do not seem to know what it is that they're wanting from a man. And then there's a lot of. I think men are receiving a lot of this narrative of, you need to step up, you need to develop emotional intelligence. You need to, like, build all of these skills, which I think a lot of men really are. I do think that the majority of modern men, especially in, you know, coastal cities and. And in these sort of, like, metropolitan metropolis areas, like, a lot of men are really reflective, looking at themselves, trying to figure things out. We have more men in therapy than ever before. You know, I think a lot of men are saying, like, okay, how do I be better in relationships and be more emotionally attuned? But it seems to still be kind of missing the mark. And I think part of that is this undercurrent and under. Like this. This. Yeah, this undercurrent of almost a hidden hatred of men and masculinity or animosity at the very least. You know, I think that you kind of. I think you mentioned in the book that feminism has inadvertently or. Or directly made many women stop trusting men, even when they want To. So I'd love for you to just talk about that. Like, what's the.

Yeah.

What do you see women really dealing with when it comes to men? Because from my side of the aisle, it seems like a lot of women do not trust men, don't like men, or, you know, want them to sort of fall into this, like, very specific role which is counter to what a lot of men are being told.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many layers to this one. Understanding men is like the understanding the opposite sex will truly change your life. And I know you've talked about this on your podcast before, Connor, so we don't need to go down this rabbit hole. People can listen to those episodes of yours, but when you understand the opposite sex, that is absolutely game changing. Because then you as a woman, stop thinking that your man is going to show up as a woman and then vice versa. The other layer to it that I have noticed is really, really important is women have lost community in other women. Like, we have lost this village. And so as a result, we are trying to make our man everything. And we are not feeling understood by him because guess what? He actually cannot understand us or see us the way that a woman, a woman can. Like, even now, being a mother is a prime example. You know, when I was giving birth, we had a home birth and my husband was trying to do like the soft, like nail touch thing down my back and he could not for the life of him do it. And I was getting so annoyed at him. And then my doula arrives, Jessica. And she, like, as soon as she touched me, I just broke into tears. And I said to her, like, I just needed a woman here because I have goosebumps. Because, like, we as women are made to be in community like, that we see each other. We don't even have to tell each other what we're feeling. And we just know, right? Because we're so good at reading body language, we're so intuitive. But a lot of women don't have that. And so they are. They are expecting their man to make them feel understood in a way that really only a woman is going to understand. You know, I was, I can say to some of my girlfriends that are moms, like, oh, you know this thing. And I can't even explain it of like sometimes what I'll feel as a mom. And they're like, I get it. And like, you can't put words to it. And then how my husband will be like, well, just try to tell me, like, you know, what do you need? And I'm like, I don't even, I can't explain what I'm experiencing. Like, you just don't, you will, you will never know. And so I think that's a really big thing that can drive a lot of the animosity and the bitterness. And I also know, and I, I think, I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in my book where women, especially women that are, you know, in this kind of hyper masculine energy, whether they know it or not, they also are using this. They might even not be aware that they are bitter and angry towards men, but they're using it as like a, as a, like control kind of flex. They're using it as a way to assert control, to make themselves feel better about themselves, to feel more powerful. That's what I'm trying to say, to feel more powerful in the relationship. And a lot of it comes from them not feeling safe to be in their feminine. So much of the, you know, lack of polarity, the distrust around men is actually a distrust of the masculine and also of the feminine. And this was very much my story where I was in this constant push and pull where I deeply wanted a man that would lead me and make decisions for me and like, push me up against the wall. But I also felt like that was so wrong and so naughty and so like anti feminism and not girl boss and not being independent and not some kind of like, powerful woman. And so a lot of women I know for my clients are just in this constant push and pull where they want this thing from the man. But then they also feel really like, wrong and shameful for having it at the same time. And so that can also play into it. But at the end of the day, when a woman does not feel safe to surrender to being her feminine, to relax, and she hasn't healed her relationship, not just with men, but also the masculine energy of discernment and direct and direction and boundaries. And when she doesn't feel safe around that, then that's where also she can be projecting that onto her man. And so whenever I'm having these conversations, it's like, it's not the man's fault, it's not the woman's fault. It's everybody, right? It's, it's both of us. We both need to do the work on our sides.

Yes, yes. And I do think that there are some narratives that are very damaging. And, you know, I do think that there, there are just some, there are some experiences that men and women are going to have that the opposing sex will never understand. And I think the problem is that the attempt to eradicate the categories of male and female, masculine and feminine, also eradicate or attempt to infringe on the eradication of unique experiences that are tethered to those biological that are tethered to those biological experiences. Right? So, like, my wife has gone through this with me a number of times where, you know, she's like, you don't understand. She'll, she'll be so exhausted. She calls it touched out, right? She'll be so exhausted from having our daughter breastfeed. Right? Because our daughter has not. She refused a soother, she refused a bottle. She just would not take either of those for whatever reason. I'm like, you know, this is mama Karma, you know.

Yeah.

And, and so, you know, my wife has been, bless her heart and her body, she has been breastfeeding for 14 months straight with no soother. My daughter has not taken anything. So when my daughter wants to soothe, it's on her. And every once in a while, my wife will get to this breaking point where she's just like, so tired of it and so like depleted. And she'll say to me, like, you just don't understand, right? And I'm like, yeah, I feel her.

So deeply right now because I'm like, you just, you just don't come up. Like, that's the reality.

And, and I, you know, at this point, I'm like, I don't offer advice. I don't, like, I don't try and say, like, explain it to him. Like, yeah, you're right. I will literally never understand it experientially. And that's why you should connect with one of your girlfriends and talk about it. And that's. And I'm like, you tell me everything you want to know. But it's kind of like a woman will never know what it's like to wake up with a raging hard on in the morning or go through puberty and get sporadic hard ons in class and on the bus and want to punch holes in the walls. Like, it's just, it's such a different primal experience. And I think my challenge that I've started to push back on more in these types of conversations and speak out against is this narrative that says we should collapse any, any biological differences, that there are no inheritance between men and women. It's like, well, you are then trying to completely erase the true subjective experience of billions of people. You know, and so I actually think.

That whole thing is like, then go, what's funny is the people that Say that are often like, super, like, feminism, feminism. And I'm like, well, now what you're saying is actually the opposite of feminism. Because now you are completely dismissing and gaslighting the experience, for example, of a girl going through puberty and, you know, there being blood on her dress at school and she's being embarrassed. Right? Like, and. And so that I'm completely with you on all of it. It gaslights men's experience, it gaslights women's experience, and it makes it some sort of, like, blended thing, which isn't true, but also to add another layer to it, you know, when we say, for example, like, you know, oh, well, you know, like, how do I explain it? It's like, this is what it means to be a feminine woman. Dress like this. And if you want to dress like this, well, then, like, oh, well, then, you know, maybe your gender is not this or maybe you're this or that. I'm like, oh, so you're saying that you can't be a woman but be a construction worker, for example, and that makes you less feminine or, you know, less of a woman. Or X, Y, and Zed. It's. It's a very. I talk about it in the book because it's a very loaded conversation with a lot of nuance and, you know, tidbits that you have to put in there. But at the end of the day, it's exactly what you said of. It's the opposite of what we fought for, even just, you know, the whole thing. I think it's New York that has this law now, because every time I go there, I'm just like, oh, my God. Eye roll. Where bathrooms always has to be a gender neutral bathroom. The hotel that we stay at, the all the bathrooms are gender neutral. And it's absolutely disgusting. And I think it's so. I think it's so wrong, actually. It's gross, number one, because it's like. And you know what? It actually made me realize why it's so wrong. Because I went into a bathroom one time and there was peel over the seat and the seat was up, and I absolutely lost my shit. And I was like, just absolutely having a go at my husband about, like, the whole situation. It wasn't him that did it. And he was like, babe, the guy probably didn't even know. Like, you know, don't be. Don't be, like, mean to him about it. Like, he probably didn't even realize. And I'm like, that is the exact reason why men all need to pee together and women pee Together because you guys, you. You haven't registered a woman could be coming into the bathroom. You're not even aware that the toilet seat has been left up. In a very basic example. But then in a bigger examp, you've got this bar that's full of, you know, young women and young men. And you go into the bathroom, and it's all men and women in the cubicles. And you come out and maybe you've had a few drinks as a. As a woman, you've come out and there's a man all of a sudden there. And it's. It's completely removed, like, the safety of. You've probably heard about it, like the girls bathrooms and clubs, right? It's completely removed the safety of that. It's completely removed the sisterhood, the community, the village that actually makes women feel safe. Because now we're bringing men into the picture, into our circle, our community, our safe space. And now we're making it more unsafe to feel like, to be a woman these days. So the whole catch 22 of, like, women don't feel safe these days, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay, well, we're letting men into women's bathrooms. So, yes, of course we don't feel safe. Now. If we wanted women to feel safe, we need more masculine energy. We need to feel like the man across the road will come and help us and not be worried that we'll chop his balls off. And we need to bring back, like, these are the women's bathrooms. This is like a very basic example. And these are the men's bathroom. Because that. Bathrooms. Because that brings safety. It doesn't bring separation.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was chuckling because whenever the bathroom conversation comes up, I laugh so hard because I'm like. All I can picture in my head is. Is, like, women coming into the. For whatever reason.

Yeah.

Like airport bathrooms. Men's airport bathrooms and. And sports stadiums. Like, it's the most disgust. I'm like, okay, ladies, just come on in to the men's airport bathroom, where there's one in one stall. There's a dude taking a shit and talking on the goddamn phone for some reason. Like, I don't know who the fuck you're talking to while you're taking a dump. But then number two, there's some huge mofo in there just dropping a nuke. And you're like, why would you want to share a bathroom?

It's disrespectful. I think that it is very disrespectful to women. Like, like, truly, I'm like, you know, yes, this sounds like I'm a 1950s housewife, but it's like, where has the energy gone? I mean, we know where it's gone, Connor, but like, where has it gone? Where, when, where men are like, oh, ladies, you don't need to be like, you don't need to know what's going on here. You don't need to smell this. Like, where has that kind of energy. If I want to, it's chivalrous. I want to look after, I want to protect her. Whether it's from, you know, the smelly poo in the bathroom or whether it's from, you know, some other disaster where it's like, the woman doesn't need to know, not because she, you know, is unintelligent or something, but it's like, that's a man's job. I'll never forget one time my husband said to me, he went out with the boys or whatever, and I was like, oh, like, how did you have fun? Blah, blah, blah. What'd you guys talk about? And he was like, babe. And I, this, like, will never leave my mind. He was like, babe, there are some conversations that women do not need to know about. And it's my job to protect you from those conversations and not tell you about them because it's not going to serve you. And it was just that reminder of like, you know, chivalrous. Men are like, women don't need to know everything because that's what a good man does. He is showing respect. That is why chivalry was created. It was to show respect on women. And now it's not there anymore.

Yeah, it's. It's a, It's a fascinating thing because, you know, I can already sometimes when I read the comments on Spotify or not so much YouTube, because I think my audience is more, you know, it's like 92 Men on YouTube, but on Spotify, I have a more, More balanced listenership. And sometimes the comments are so disheartening because it's so easy to have things misinterpreted. I can already hear the like, non inclusivity, patriarchy, misogynistic commentary. And, and for me, that it's. I think it's sad because we're. We're collapsing the categories. We're collapsing the.

We'Re collapsing the. This, the true nature and experience of a lot of people to the majority. Right? Yes, the majority of people to, to try and flatten it out in a way and negate just some objective realities. You know there are some objective truths that exist outside of how we want to feel about ourselves. And so I think that's, I think it's, I think it's, it's too bad, and I think it's too bad that we can't have these conversations in a way where there's real discourse without it being launched at. Like I can, I'm already, I'm grinning just waiting for the comments section.

Like, let's go.

Right, here we go.

Yeah, seriously. But you know what makes me sad is I'm like, these comments are not written from 6 year old kids that don't understand nuance. These comments are written from adults that actually need to listen with an open mind. If, guess what, if you don't like something, you can just move on with your life. And it, it makes me realize that people don't realize, like multiple truths can be held at once. If this doesn't relate to you, then move on. Like, that's fine, right? There are some women that really want to be the masculine in the relationship. And that's not from a trauma response. That's like deep in their heart. But that's a very small population of women. I can confidently say that the vast majority of women, and I used to be the hyper masculine, man hating, bitter bitch. Like I was as cold as they come. Truly, truly, truly as cold as they come. And now I'm like the complete opposite. But that coldness, that hyper masculinity, that was that I hate men and you know, like, I prefer to be in control and lead. That was all a trauma response because I felt so weak, so wrong, so fearful of letting go. And the majority of women are in that same boat when they're not willing to let go. And so for even the men listening, if you're, you know, in a relationship with a woman and she, you know, says, oh, I'm not leading, blah, blah, blah, but then you try and she doesn't actually like let you lead. It's not because she doesn't want to, it's because she doesn't know how to. It's because she doesn't feel safe to you. And that's not fully on you, you know, because there is stuff that needs to be healed that you can't necessarily heal. Like, you know, you're not the one that has caused the distrust per se. But it is sad to me that adults these days can't have nuanced conversations, but also just can't listen to a different opinion and still respect the person. It's always like, you know, my opinion's the right opinion and everybody else is wrong. And at the end of the day, some of the things that we're talking about, you know, when it comes to even just like, you know, women falling pregnant and people now using. It's very offensive to a lot of women when people are saying the pregnant person. Right, that. But seriously, it actually is like, quite offensive to a lot of women because it's like, no, a man can't fall pregnant. This is a woman's experience. And I only want to be hearing from women that have been in this experience.

Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a hilariously ironic notion that it's inclusivity based on how I think inclusivity should be excluding the majority. Right? It's like excluding the majority of people's experience and desires and lived experience. Etc. Let's, let's touch on a little bit more of what you've been talking about there, which is that, and I've heard you talk about this before, I think you write about it in the book, that many women sort of carry this resentment and this anger towards men sometimes, oftentimes because, and you know, understandably that, you know, they've experienced trauma at the hands of men, they've been abandoned by men, they've been neglected by men, they've been hurt by men. Whether that's a family member, whether that's a stranger, whether that's, you know, a boyfriend, etc. What does that anger do to. I want to ask two questions. Number one, what does that anger and that resentment do to that woman's ability to, to trust, love and connect to a man? And second, is there anything that we as men can do? Because I do think that this is a huge question that a lot of men ask me. Is my girlfriend, my wife, my sister has this trauma or this pain that she's carrying from men? What can I do about it and how can I help her? And I think for a lot of men, they kind of feel stuck, you know, and helpless, not being able to, like, really do anything. So I'm curious to get your take on those two things.

Yeah. Okay, so the first thing around, like, what does the anger and the resentment do to a woman in terms of her being able to, like, be in her feminine? I mean, it doesn't allow her to be in her feminine. And I'm not talking about like, dark feminine or anything like that. If you, if you as a woman have all of this anger and bitterness, it completely inhibits you from tapping into your Heart, it completely inhibits you from feeling like you can let go, that you can open up. And I mean, I know this firsthand. I. Anger release and like, that really wild, like, quote unquote, ugly, dark stuff is my favorite stuff to work on, Connor, because it is like I do in person events. And when I have women in the room and they're all just screaming bloody murder, it brings me to tears. Like, even just thinking about it gives me goosebumps. Because it is the fact that women are put in a space where they finally feel like I have so many goosebumps. Like their anger and their rage, like rage really is the word that we should actually be using. Their rage is not ugly, it's not bad, it's not dangerous, it's not shameful, it's not any of those things. And to finally be able to release it, like, I can't even. Like, we all know sometimes when you just need like a good scream and you get in the car and just scream your head off, we feel better after. And so many women are walking around with 10, 20, 30, 40 years of just this anger and this resentment and this bitterness that's collected into this huge amount of rage that fully inhibits them from opening up, from trusting their self, from trusting their intuition, from being connected to their body. The list could go on. And so you can't be in your feminine if you have all of this rage inside of you because it's got. That anger is going to drive you into a more masculine, dominant, like testosterone dominant state because you're in your head, you cannot tap into your body when you're in that state. And then the second part of the question of how can men help when women have, you know, this trauma one, it depends on the extent of the trauma, right? If we're talking about a past relationship she had where maybe she was cheated on by her past boyfriend, and that's coming up in the current relationship because, you know, she's worried that you're going to do the same. You can one. I mean, you can only do so much to make her believe otherwise. And at the end of the day, whilst it's a beautiful thing in a relationship that you can kind of heal each other, in my opinion. And from what I've seen, you can only heal so much. And you will, you will exhaust your partner if he feels like he constantly has to, like, send pictures of where he's at, phone every 10 minutes to make sure there's not a girl in the background. Like, that's not a loving, healthy Safe relationship for him either. That's a job for him. And so, you know, if you are at. In a place in your relationship where no matter what he's doing, no matter how he's trying to show you that he's trustworthy and that he's safe, that he won't do that, if you still don't believe that that is your responsibility to work on. And then, of course, if the trauma that we're talking about is much bigger, whether it's sexual assault, whether it's like your dad never being around, and so you have absolutely, like no ability to open up your heart, for example, he can help, but seriously, only to a point.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's. I think that's helpful for men to hear because I do know. I mean, you know, we've got a thousand men in the alliance now all over the world, and I can't tell you how often I hear some version of, you know, my wife has this trauma or my girlfriend has this pain from, you know, her dad or, you know, some other man that she was with. And I'm not really too sure how to help her through that. And I. And I think that brings me to the question around safety because, you know, you kind of mentioned that. And I love. I love this point. It's kind of interesting that women in relationship crave safety more than they create, more than they crave equality, which I found kind of interesting. And so I would love for you to expand on that and, and maybe contextualize what that means, because I think it gets tossed around a lot. And I think for a lot of men, they feel this onus of like, okay, I have to do this thing. I. I'm responsible for a woman's safety, and if she doesn't feel safe, it means there's something wrong with me or I'm doing something wrong and I gotta figure that out. So I'd love for you to just dig into that.

Will you read that quote again, Connor? So it's front of mind. Everyone can hear it again.

Yeah. That. That women crave safety in intimate relationships more than equality.

Yes. Okay. It is not sexy when you're on a date and he goes, let's split the bill.

Literally the most unsexy thing for a woman that wants, I'll say for the cat, like the. The nuance here is the footnote is for the woman that wants to be in a relationship where he is the provider and the protector. A woman that is in her hyper masculine might not even think anything about it. She Might think, yeah, great, like, we're equals here. We're not talking about that, but talking about, like, the men listening to this, the women listening to this, where we're not. I'm not talking to those of you that are like, oh, yeah, let's split the bill. The 50 50. I mean, it can never be 50 50. That's the reality. And when you're constantly focused on things, trying to be equal, you are focused on. I mean, you're in your head. You're focused on this, like, gold star thing. It's this constant, like, competition isn't the right word, but it's this constant nitpicking of who's done what. How many diapers has he changed.

How many scoreboards? The scoreboard, thank you.

Yes, exactly. And I'm sorry, I don't want to be having sex with someone that's like, well, you've only changed three diapers today. Or, well, I did this, so you have to do that. That is not a healthy relationship. That is a relationship that is infused with obligation and pressure and performance and. And. And one person constantly feeling like they have to do something that day to earn the other person's love. There is not unconditional love in that relationship. I. One of my past clients, she was a classic case, actually, Connor, of this 50 50. I reference her in the book classic case of she thought that it like to be a good feminist woman. Everything had to be 50 50. The childcare had to be 50 50, work had to be 50 50. And she was miserable, as was her husband in the relationship. She came back from my immersion and she decided, let's just. Let's take what Monica said on board and let's try something new. And when I say their relationship is the complete opposite to what it was, I mean it like flowers, bath, completely different. You know what? She now spends a lot of time with her kids. Not saying, you have to do this, but what she actually gave herself permission to own was, I love spending time with my children. What he said to her was, babe, I need more time to work. I feel so, like, emotionally, my. My nervous system feels so at capacity because I am not getting enough time to work because, you know, he's coming home. And then you have to do this and this and make it even, blah, blah, blah. So he spends more time working. He comes home, he makes dinner. After she finishes work, she gets to pick the kids up, they go to the playground, they play, they all come home, a beautiful dinner has been made, their sex life is completely repaired, and everybody's happy and there is no tit for tat. I mean, we do the same in our relationship we were talking about before we got on. My husband has not done one night. He has not changed one diaper in the middle of the night. He has not done one middle of the night feed. For some couples, that works. But like I'm breastfeeding. It makes no sense for the two. For the two of us to be tired. But he shows up in other ways. He got. He, like we did a home birth, so he had to do the birth certificate and the insurance and the this and then that and the ss. He had to do all that stuff. I don't know how any of our finances work. I don't pay the mortgage. Even though it's my money, I don't pay it. He does everything else and. But I'm still not keeping a scoreboard. It's. I do what feels more fulfilling to me and he does what feels like he's put in that provider and protector role, even though it's not necessarily financial. Right. But the action steps that he takes makes me feel looked after because I'm like, I don't want to do the bills. That's way too heady for me.

Yeah. I do think that having those roles, whatever they might be like sitting down in your relationship and determining what actually feels good for you. Because I do think that that's going to play a huge part of the success of a relationship. In this modern time of confusion and lacking any type of clarity and being upfront about. Here is the role that I feel best playing in an intimate relationship. I like to like. For me, I hate logistics. I'm not an operations person. I have a COO in my business. She is phenomenal. She's very like managerial oriented. I'm more like vision orientation. And my wife and I are the very same dynamic. I'm very leadership oriented, vision oriented. Here's what we're going to do. I create the plan, I create the direction. And then there are some things that she takes care of. And then there's a whole bunch of things that I like, I take on. Right. It's like, okay, here's our roles. And some of those things are more traditional and some of those things are not right. Like in our household, we have a four and a half year old boy. I'm the discipline. I'm the one that lays down the law. And that works really well for us. It works well for our son. And then there's times, of course, where I'm like, dad needs to tap out because he's four and a half and I'm about to like lay down like a 15 year old style discipline. So like take this child, mama, you know, and then she'll, she'll step in and so. But there's, I think that, I think that when we enter into times of real unsurity and real lacking of clarity and real chaos like we are right now in modern relationships, it becomes so important for I think men and women to really take the time to define, here's what I would like to do in the relationship, here's where I feel like I operate the best, where I feel like I have a sense of respect and I'm appreciated and I'm admired or adored and then to have that conversation with your significant other. And I've seen so many marriages get completely resolved because they were in the wrong roles. They were doing, they were doing things and taking on things because they thought that society, you know, told them that they needed to do that and blah, blah, blah. So is that in a big part what you're saying?

100%. Connor and I want to add to one of the things that you kind of implied, right, of like, some of them might be traditional, some of them might not be traditional. Like, my husband crushes the laundry. I do not, you know, I can do the laundry, but he does a better job at it. So he'll just often do it. I cook every night. Some people might say that's, you know, like it's sexier for a man to cook than a woman to cook. But I cook. He cleans every night, right? That's just kind of how it works. And so I have clients sometimes that will say, well, I'm a Virgo, as an example. Like, we love to throw a little star sign in there. As a woman, I'm a Virgo. And so, and so I want to plan the trips, right? I like to do the itineraries and the this and the that. Whereas the example that I'll often give is that, you know, I might say I'd love to go to, to, you know, this city, but my husband will book every single logistic under the sun. And I just kind of rock up basically, and I'm there for the ride. So it's not about like, this is technically masculine, this is technically feminine. Because putting ourselves in those boxes is. It also hurts women because it continues. And men, it continues to make them feel like they have to perform as a version of them that actually might not be them. So let's just Use the Virgo example. So if you're a Virgo, for example, as a woman and you love to, you know, do the whole travel itinerary, if that makes you happy and makes you feel alive and magnetic and just like, turned on and just like, oh, my God, I'm loving doing this, and you could stay up till 3am doing it, then I would argue you are in your feminine. Right. Just like a man might do something that maybe is technically not masculine, but it really makes him feel so fulfilled and so just like, maybe not turned on, but like the protector or the provider and just good. Then. Then do that. And so don't think that these roles or just even how you're showing up has to be in this black and white binary box of feminine and masculine. Because that isn't serving, especially women. It's really not serving us. Because a lot of women are thinking from, you know, feminine and masculine, becoming more trendy on social media. Oh, this is what I have to do to be in my feminine. This is masculine. So women then think, oh, well, I don't want to be in my feminine if it means I have to lose direction and discernment and authority and assertiveness. And I'm like, I have all of those things, but my baseline is feminine. I really believe that it's the energy in which you do something in that makes it feel more feminine or masculine. Just to kind of add that modern approach that the women and men listening don't feel like they have to fit themselves into a box. Because that's not what we're saying at all.

Yeah. It's not about the task or the action being feminine or masculine, you know, Correct. I think that's the con. That's. That's where I think gets all twisted up in the modern conversation of like, well, is cooking feminine or masculine? Is. It's like that. That doesn't matter. Right?

Yes. It's not the energy in which you do it.

Yeah. It's not the action that is femin or masculine. Like, those things are. Are. Yeah. Agendered, I guess you could say, but.

Right.

Yeah. I mean, like in. In our house, I. My wife cooks probably 70, 80% of the time. I just genuinely do not like cooking. And I. Oh, my God.

He's telling my husband and I'm like, please just learn how to cook.

I hate it. I hate it. I'm like, I just. For me, cooking is. Is about this, is this. This is like such a masculine, like, masculine thing. This is such like a. Yeah, a bro thing. But it's like, it is about efficiency for me.

Oh, I know, I know.

How fast can I cook? How simple can it be? With the cleanest amount of food and. And the highest amount of protein. And so whenever I cook, it's like, protein vegetables. My wife knows exactly what it's like. Chicken and steak.

Chicken. The chicken, rice, and fucking broccoli thing. I say that to women of, like, okay, so if you're trying to, you know, like, eat healthier, men can just do the whole. The same thing every day. They can do the chicken, the rice, the broccoli. Right. Because to them, it's about just, like, getting the food down, moving on. But to us, if it's not like, fulfilled our senses and made us feel pleasurable by eating our dinner that we, like, forced ourselves to eat, we're going to keep thinking about the actual food that we want. Like, you got to make food, you got to make food, this pleasurable, enjoyable thing in order to feel, quote unquote, like, satiated. Whereas for you guys, my husband does the same thing. He's like, you could just give me a whole bowl of mints, and I'm happy. And I'm like, okay, well, that's not going to suit me. So, like, give me other ideas for dinner, because that's not what I want.

Yeah, yeah, my. My wife is. She's actually become very, very good cook, and she's like, got like a whole bunch of dishes now. And. And it's great because I'm like, I would. I would rather put headphones in, listen to a book or a podcast and clean up than make an elaborate dinner. It's just not enjoyable for me. But let's, let's carry on to this. I'm sure going to see some comments about that, too. Or, like, some of the guys from the alliance are going to be like, bro, like, why don't you like to cook? Yeah, but you write in the book talking about how feminine men don't make women feel safer. And I think this is a very interesting misconception because as. As men, we hear, oh, women want to be safe. And so what a lot of men do inadvertently is they become people pleasers. They disconnect from that kind of primal energy, from a physicality, and. And they maybe disconnect from a sense of assertiveness. So for the guys that are. That are listening and tuning into this, who want to be able to still show emotion in their relationship without losing polarity, how can they start to find that balance with the woman in their life?

I love that You've asked this, Connor, because. Yeah, it's like the classic example of women being like, you know, we want to feel your emotions. Like, you can cry in front of us, and then as soon as the man does, we're like, ew, like, what is happening? Why is he crying? Kind of thing. So the way that I present it is that there is a time and a place if the house is burned. And this is part of being a masculine man. Like, you're able to discern when it's appropriate to bring out more of that softer, quote unquote, feminine, just like, emotional side. And then when it's not, if the house is burning down, don't tell me you're scared. That's the last thing I want to hear. Right. You know, or if, for example, your wife is pregnant and there's some kind of issue and she's absolutely freaking out, you don't tell her that you're scared, too. You tell her, babe, I got you. Everything's okay. We're good. Even if you're freaking out inside after the fact, you can tell her I was a little bit scared. Oh, my God, I'm so glad everything's okay. But during it, if you show, and it's not like, I'm not saying, oh, you know, if you say that it's showing weakness, I just think that it's emotional immaturity because you're not showing up as what she needs in that moment. Right. What she needs is a rock. She needs to feel, like, really anchored by you. And that no matter what, you have got her. And when you do that in big moments, but also little moments, that makes her feel, like, over and over again, if there was a problem, he's going to solve it, right? If I'm a mess, I can just lean on him and he's got me. And that's what you guys want. You want us to melt into you, but you are the ones that will create that container and create that, you know, past experience, then that shows us in the future, in the present, that we can. That we can lean into you. And so, you know, with the crying example, yeah, you can cry. You can show emotion to us, but do you know when to do it? It's not the time when the house is burning down or when there's a problem with the kids. The time is when you guys are sitting on the sofa together having a really deep conversation. Then that's where the emotion can come through. So when. When women are saying this, I think what's getting misconstrued is that they women are thinking these days because it's a lack of education around this, oh, if he's softer, he's safer. But I'll give you an example that will very clearly show that soft doesn't mean safe. So if you're walking down the street as a woman and you are getting. This actually happened to me. I wrote it in the book. And you're getting like, pretty aggressively cat called, right? Or you're getting followed by somebody and they're catcalling you and you're feeling unsafe. If a soft man is walking past you, he's not intervening to be like, are you okay? We now feel more unsafe because there's all these men walking down the street that we're like, wanting help from or wanting protection from. And we're not getting any. Versus if men are not soft, but instead showing up as like, the protectors, the leaders, the kind of like, I've got you, like that strength. We feel safer walking down the street because even though we're getting cat called by, you know, the 0.1% of men that are unhealthy, there are all the other men around us that would come up to us, cross the road and tell that guy to f off and make sure that you're at home safe. So this whole idea, I. Maybe you know, this. Connor, I don't know whether you've talked about this before. Maybe I've heard you talk about it before, but did you hear about the school in Australia that made the boys apologize for being boys?

I did, yeah. I did talk about it.

Okay.

I talked about how insane that was. And then I would never like my boy out of that school immediately.

I mean, you take the boy out of the country, Australia is. That's a conversation for another time. And I'm saying that as an Australian, so I'm allowed to say it. I don't live there. But that is a. A perfect example of when we are making boys or men apologize for their masculinity. We are inadvertently and subconsciously telling women and girls that boys are unsafe, that men are unsafe, that masculinity is unsafe. You know, even just. I'm curious your opinion on this, Connor. You know, when something happens on the news, you know, to a woman, whether she's been sexually assaulted or the like you. And the kind of conversation on Instagram will immediately go, men, you need to have this conversation with your guy friends. You need to apologize. If you're not talking about this, then you're part of the problem. I've asked My husband about this. I'm curious your thoughts because you're, you know, in. Into the men's work, whereas he doesn't do it so much. And from just a normal guy's perspective, he's like, why do I have to bring up a conversation and apologize for something that me and my guy friends would never do and kind of admit faults? That just makes me feel worse about being a man. And it's just like a. You know, in his mind, it just makes absolutely no logical sense. So I'm curious even just your thoughts about that.

Oh, yeah, There's. There's a whole bunch of pieces that play into it. But I think. I think that oftentimes, well, a couple of things. Number one, I think that there's a lot of men who check out from engaging and supporting women in those situations now because they. They're like, I don't want to be near this. I think there's a lot of men that. A lot of men that have animosity towards women because of some of the rhetoric and the narrative. And it's like, oh, you have told us so long and so hard and so loud that you don't need a man. Figure it out in this moment, you know, Figure it out. And so I think that there's male hostility that also needs to be addressed. I think, like, I see a lot of. There's a lot of men that are. That are checked out from that. And then, you know, I do think that what you're saying about a lot of men being more soft, that part as well. I think a lot of men are like, oh, I don't really know if I should intervene. I've been told not to do that. What was your question, though?

My question was, like, around, you know, when people these days are saying, for example, like, once something happens on the news to a woman, oh, well, like, you know, all the guys, they better be talking about it in their friendship circles. And my husband's just kind of like, I don't see why that's helpful. And we're talking obviously about, you know, healthy men are. I'm not talking about unhealthy. Men need to have this conversation. Like, my husband's a very good guy.

So there's. I think there's probably two things, but the main. The main thing is that I think even at a. Maybe conscious, but I think for sure, at a subconscious or unconscious level, women know that. It's like, how do you hold men accountable? Really? How can women really hold men accountable? Because when push comes to shove, Generally speaking, men are the accountability law enforcement of the world because men are the more physically dominant part of the species. And so I think a lot of the times this narrative gets pushed out online because female tactics to create coherence and. And female tactics to create law and order are oftentimes on a relational and social level. They are not on a physical level. And so for a lot of women, it's like, well, these things aren't working right. There's still, and they're likely always will be this 0.1% of the population that are unwell, that are deviant, that, you know, do these behaviors. And the problem is that the narrative gets put out like, oh, man, you are all responsible for this, and. And you need to check yourself for this misogyny and this. You know, I've seen this a lot of, like, all men are rapists, and all men are this. And I call it, oh, my God, I'm ready.

It doesn't help women. It does not help women feel safe. And that's the whole joke of it. You want to feel safer as a woman, but you are constantly berating men, which is only continuing to program yourself and more women that men are unsafe. It's like when women are, like, dating so hard, all men are this. All men are ghost, all men emotionally unavailable, and then they keep doing. Seeing the same kind of men. I'm like, well, yeah, because you're literally telling yourself that. So you're not seeing. Your reticular activating system is not seeing the good men out there.

Yeah, all cars are red. And then what you see is predominantly red cars, right? Yeah, I mean, it's so. So I do think that it's a. It's an enforcement issue. I think that for a lot of women, they know that if push comes to shove, like, if you're in a situation with a guy that's bigger than you, you know, there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of cases where you actually need a man to physically intervene. Actually, we had this happen over the last weekend. My wife and I took my wife and the kids into the city, and we were staying at a hotel. And the second night that we were there, daughters having problems, falling asleep, blah, blah, blah. 12:30 at night, all of a sudden.

Story of my life.

Right now, there's yelling and screaming coming from the hotel room next to us. Door gets slammed. Some woman is like yelling expletives, right? Fuck you, blah, blah, blah. And the door gets slammed again. And I was like, all right, that's Enough. And so I get out of bed, I'm in my boxers. I open the door, I'm like, what is going on? You know, and here, like, you know, I'm like, boxers.

They would have been like, whoa, that would have been a good interrupt.

All tattooed, like, I'm tattooed up. I got a big chest tattoo. And they're like, I'm standing there, and I'm like, what is going on? And there's a guy standing in the door. The hotel door is open right next to me. So he's like three feet away, and there's a woman at the end of the hallway. And she says, he. He hurt me. He grabbed me, and. And I was like, okay, go downstairs, Tell a front desk. Call the police if you want, or go and find safety. And I looked at him, and I was like, you stay there. You stay. Go back in your hotel room and close the door. And, you know, it was, like, immediate interruption, and I intervened, right? And so I stayed there out in the hallway, like, waiting for this, you know, for her to leave and go downstairs. And she left and. And made sure that he was. Stayed in his hotel room and then go back inside. And, you know, my wife was like, what the hell was that? And it was.

It's examples like that that we like. That is what breeds more safety in the world for women when we know another man is going to come help us.

Right, Right. And it was funny because my wife, the next day, she was like, you know, I recall a time with one of her exes where they were staying in a hotel and something similar was going on, and he didn't go out. And she was like, I lost, like, a little bit of trust in him that he, like, he seems scared to go and intervene. And he kept being like, oh, it's none of my business. Oh, it's none of my business song it's on my business. Yeah. And I was admittedly just kind of pissed because I was like, you're gonna wake the kids up.

Yeah.

No, but I didn't know what was going on.

But it's just like, that's. It's sad, though, that humans these days were so disconnected from each other that it's like, oh, well, that's none of my business. As though, like, you know, But. But the joke is, if the whole hotel was burning down in fire, you would have become best friends with that person in an absolute instance. Right. And people use that example very often of, like, we only get to know our neighbors when an emergency happens versus just, like, on a good Day. It's funny that you bring this up though, because when we were on holiday, a similar ish situation happened. This guy that we were sitting behind was just like, oh, my God, the biggest wanker of my life, Connor. I had to bite my tongue. Okay, like, not to go on a tangent, but this guy was just saying the most. Just, oh, my God, disgusting things. He had two women there, and I just wanted to turn around and my little babies there, and they're talking so loud and I want to be like, shut the fuck up. Because the baby. But also I cared more about the women. I wanted to turn around and be like, ladies, you are worth so much more than this wanker. Anyway, I bit my tongue the next day. The next day, this guy. The guy was, you know, and. And what's funny is then like, the dynamic of money, because he was staying in the penthouse. He was like. I don't know, he was obviously somebody. And so the hotel didn't want to kick him out, even though he was making. He was yelling bloody murder at his girlfriend or whatever, throwing all of her stuff out of the hotel room. Right. And look, we don't know what she did, of course, but I think it also just goes to show the lack of respect that he had, even just for her as a human being, as a woman, and just like, even for himself in a public environment. And my husband went and saw it and then, like, called the hotel and. And then I actually was really bummed that the hotel didn't. Didn't actually kick him out. Right. Because they cared more about the money in their image than actually standing up for what is right. And I mean, we could go on this, but I know that this. This could be like an invitation for a lot of men. It's so uncomfortable to even have these conversations sometimes, Connor, because we know the messages that people, you know, will sometimes send us about these stuff. But if no one says it, who will? But also, as a man, it is very attractive to a woman when you show up in this leadership and you're unafraid or you do it even if you are afraid of what people will say, like. Like take a stand for something. Being a pushover is the least attractive thing to a woman.

Yeah. And I think. I mean, I think my. My sort of, like, push would be for guys to just do it for themselves, you know, like.

Yeah, I.

Whether. Whether. Whether my wife and kids were in that hotel room or not, I still would have gone outside.

Yeah.

And I. I think that's the thing that we need to return To. And I think for a lot of guys, you know, it is challenging because I see a lot of the commentary online of, like, women have asked for this. You know, like, women have brought this. Feminism has brought this upon women of like, men don't want to intervene. Men don't want to stand up for you. You've, you've culturally and from a narrative standpoint, told men so long that they're not wanted or needed, that in these types of situations, they don't come to your aid because you've said, I don't need a man. I can handle myself. I can, you know, whatever. So, yeah, man, I, I think that those, we, we have to be able. I think our responsibility as men is to be able to have those conversations of like, like, how do you want to operate in these situations? And it's. Is it still a part of your values? Not that you need to do it for a woman or you need to do it for somebody else, but is it a part of your specific value sets as a man to intervene in those moments? And then I do think that women need to have a kind of like, you know, coming to God conversation around how, as a collective, you're speaking about men and, and whether or not that's forming the type of men that you actually want to date. Because I think in my perspective, a lot of the narratives that, that surround men and masculinity, you know, patriarchy is the problem with absolutely everything. Masculinity is toxic. Traditional masculinity is unhealthy. There's no real definition of what a good man is. You can't identify a good man or male role model. I think that that is, is actually creating more of the type of men that women do not want than it is creating healthy, functional men that women want to be with. And so what women say really does matter. We listen to that. It has an impact on us. And so I think that both sides of the aisle, like, we have some big, heavy lifting to do and some conversations to do. But where I want to end off, because I think that this is. I think that this is interesting because one of the things that I keep getting from your work is being an empowered woman, being a powerful woman who also can still be soft. And I'm going to say the S word that is maybe just triggering for some people, but it can also be submissive and can really be relaxed around a man. And so you talk about this empowered submissive woman or empowered submissive feminism as a blend of the strength and surrender. Can you just Sort of speak about that and maybe just speak to women and, and we will inform men.

So I, I coined this term empoweredly submissive. I know it's. Empoweredly isn't a word, but we're rolling with it. Empoweredly submissive. And basically I realized that in order to truly. And when I say submissive, I mean like in a sexy way. I don't mean so, you know, being empoweredly submissive is not being a doormat. It's not saying yes when you mean no or anything like that. It's the, it's for those of us that actually want to just turn our brain off, be the passenger princess and be in that more submissive. Submissive role, if you will. So I realized that in order to truly, truly be submissive as a woman, you actually have to be so confident and so empowered. You know, you might be aware of this phenomenon, Connor, but you know, to not go too down this rabbit hole. But when it comes to, like bdsm, the women, for example, that will often want the most extreme forms of BDSM also tend to be an extremely high functioning masculine roles. And when it comes to work and the only way that they're able to like really let go, you know, in one way, shape or form, is to be in this extremely submissive role. But they're also incredibly confident, incredibly empowered, incredibly strong women. And I realize even from my own journey that when I was able to fully own my. No. Fully be able to speak my truth, be so deeply confident in myself and my desires, that is when I was able to surrender to the deepest level. Same thing for my clients. You cannot surrender as a woman and be submissive, be in that receivership. If you do not know how to say no, and a lot of women don't, or if you struggle to just say no or speak your needs, how can you then fully surrender? Let's just use sex, right? If you wanted to fully surrender, but you were afraid of saying no, if he was kind of, you know, pushing the boundary a little bit or doing something that you didn't want, your body would be a little bit tight. You wouldn't actually be able to fully surrender. And so that is what the idea is of, you know, being empoweredly submissive is that in order to actually be a really submissive, you know, a woman that's fully in her surrender, be deeply in your feminine, you're actually the most empowered and confident woman. Because, you know, at any time as you're really surrendering, you could just say no and it would be easy for you to just say no or for you to speak your truth or for you to put your foot down for, for want of a better way. So that is the whole idea of being empoweredly submissive.

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's great. And I think it's, it's also what I think a lot of women ask of men that are in those sort of a type, high powered, high stress situations is the ability to step out of the boardroom and sort of de roll from, you know, this, this sometimes non relational way of being. Right. That's like my way or the highway and to enter back into a more relational way of being. And I think that that's what you're really describing, which is great. So where can people go to learn more about you, to learn more about your, your, your work, to grab a copy of your book? Where can people go?

Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me, Connor. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that all of you guys listening have as well. Before I actually say that, what I want to say for all the men listening is that I initially wrote my book for men. It was initially for you guys and I think once you read it, you'll understand why. My dad actually read it and he like doesn't even really know what I do for work and he sent me a text. He wrote it, he read it on his flight back to Australia and he read it the whole way home and he was, he literally sent me a text, he never texted me. He said every single person needs to read this book. And that is huge coming from my dad. Because why I initially wrote it for men was because I wanted you guys to feel heard. I wanted you to know that women, what they're wanting from you in terms of like, they want a masculine man. I wanted, I wanted you guys to have a voice and not feel like the whole world is just hating on you right now. So I initially wrote it for men and then, you know, it's marketed towards women but for the men that have read it, they're like, oh, I now get why he said for me to read it. So that's the first thing. The book is called Becoming Her. If anybody wants to get it, you can find me on Instagram. Monica Yates, Health, the website's Monarchyates Health and my podcast is Feminine as Nice without the you. Without the you.

And just like I'm gonna put a little, a little oomph on this one for, for all the men, if you are with a woman who has bought you books, if you bought you my book, maybe sent you a program or encouraged you to listen to a podcast, then maybe it's, it's a good time to return the favor by her, the book becoming her. Especially if you enjoyed today's conversation and you feel aligned with some of the things that we're talking about. I think that's a great thing to do because, yeah, just return the favor in a loving way, not in a, not in a vengeful way, but just like, okay, we're, we're doing this. We're in this. So thanks very much. Don't forget to man it forward. This is definitely maybe a conversation that you should tune into with your partner, send it to your significant other, your wife, girlfriend, spouse, etc. And as always, until next week, this is Connor Beaton signing off.