2714: The Best Exercise Combos for Each Body Part

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The difference between a good workout program and a bad workout program is vast. One gives you incredible results. One gives you nothing. But what makes a good workout program a good program? Is it how sore you get? Is it how much you sweat? No, it's the programming itself. The exercises, the order, the sets, the reps, how it's programmed makes a huge difference. Here's what we're doing right now. We're going to talk about the best exercise combos for each body part you want to train. Your legs, your back, your chest, your shoulders, your arms. What do we think are the best exercises for those body parts and in what order? How do we combine them for good workout programming?

Let's go left, right, cross, upper.

Now. Okay, I want to be clear because are we talking about in a single workout or. Okay, because we get.

We get into the whole programming thing this, this episode.

Well, also why this matters, because another way this could have been said is like, these are the top two exercises per muscle group. But it's not that. It's like in a workout, in a workout, which makes a difference because you're not going to do something like a barbell back Squat and a deadlift in that same workout.

Right, right.

So I think that's good point. Important to know because someone's gonna be like, what? That's. That's not the best exercise for legs. It's like, well, no, you're doing one of the best exercises and then another one that goes really good.

Totally, totally. All right, I'll. I'll start. I'll start with legs, and I'll give you. Of course. Yeah, of course the exercises will change depending on the individual goals, your prior injury, all that stuff. But I'll give you generally just a good exercise combo for a workout program for legs. Okay. And it can look like. It'll look like this. It'll be. Barbell squats will be the first exercise. So you're going to warm up, obviously, get into it. You're going to do your working sets of barbell squats, then you're going to do your Romanian deadlifts, and then you're going to do your hip thrusts. Now, I can change the order if the person wants to focus on glutes. If they want to focus on glutes and they have a tough time developing glutes, I'll do the hip thrust first, and then I'll go squats and Romanian deadlifts. But those three in combination, phenomenal combination. In one workout, I found not only.

That, but you could use that as your base. And then just every once in a while, flip, take one out and switch with something else. For example, like maybe I've been barbell back squatting consistently for a couple months. It's like, I'm gonna get rid of barbell back squats for a period, and I'm gonna go, Bulgarians.

Great point.

So it's like, and. But still keep the other two the same. Or then I'm gonna go, I'm gonna keep my barbell back squat. But, you know, maybe instead of, like, Romanian deadlifts, I do something like hyperextension or leg curls or leg curls or something like that. And so just swap out the barbell.

Backs for front squat if I want to emphasize my quads more, you know.

I'm so glad you said that, Justin. I would love your. Because I just gave it kind of a general hypertrophy muscle.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

He would probably put something functional.

Yeah.

Like a lunge or step up.

Yeah, I prefer lunges mainly for the functional aspect of two. Plus, it's. It's addressing a lot of instability that I think that people need to. To really account for which Leads to further, like, dysfunction.

By the way, with this combo, a front squat would be just fine. It is more anterior, meaning it is more quad than a back squat.

Because you have the Romanian addressing the backside.

You are. And so you could actually, you know, do a cycle of back squats. The reason why I say that is nobody does front squats anymore. And it's such a good exercise. Yeah. I almost never. I see everybody.

I always bring it up because I always forget even myself.

Nobody. I see everybody back squatting now, which is great. It wasn't like that not that long ago. So that's phenomenal.

It's actually crazy when I. I still.

See no front squats, though. Nobody front squats.

They're hard and it's.

It's hard.

Yeah, yeah.

It's different and it keeps you upright and it really does have a different.

You know what's so funny about that though, isn't. Isn't this a trip. But any of us, I would say I probably front squatted or goblets. Caught it with more clients than I did barbell basket, of course. So it's a bit ironic, right, that we say that as part of my, My.

Yeah. Clients that had them go through that because it's.

It's easier, it's a better position. They are hard, but it helps keep some more upright. It's. Back squatting requires a little bit more. A lot more core.

You're kind of targeting that thoracic mobility.

Shoulder mobility, all that stuff. Yeah. No, Front squat is actually the first type of squat and I would do with a broomstick.

Yeah. So interesting that, you know. Okay. We've made huge headway in seeing people barbell back squatting in the gym, which is awesome. And I would never want to shame somebody or tell somebody not to do that, which is amazing. But it's a bit ironic when you think about. When we. When you think about the programming that we did for clients or during our training career, I would say I did way more front squats and you never see that. So there is still an opportunity there for the listener and people is like to get really good at that movement. And to you guys point, it's like, it's hard, it sucks.

But those.

That's.

I mean, it's really good.

That's where the gold is. Right? Is. Is. Is the things that are the hardest and suck the most typically is where the gold lies in program. Especially when you've been training for a while. Different story when you're brand new. It's like you don't have to do the hardest thing in the gym.

It's not even appropriate for you. Yeah, oftentimes.

And so you can get a ton of a lot of exercises that are not as good, which is great. You may as well take advantage of that. But for the lifter who's been lifting for a couple years, if you haven't ran through a cycle of. I'm going to get really good at front squats. Huge opportunity there to see tremendous gains in your physique and strength, stability, your core, all things totally.

All right, let's get to back. So one of my favorite back workouts.

I'm going to put deadlift in there for back.

It's going to be deadlifting then to either pull ups or pull downs, depending on your strength level. So deadlift pull up, pull downs and then some kind of a machine row or a chest supported row where you could get them in the back. That combination is phenomenal.

So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go deadlift. I'm gonna go lap pull down and I'm gonna do dumbbell row.

There you go.

I get a little bit of functional stuff with the rotation and their anti rotation in the dumbbell row. I love after a heavy deadlift like.

One arm over a bench.

Yeah, yeah. So then I. And I loved after a heavy deadlift, I don't want to do pull ups. I'm just not going to be able to get very many. That's what I'm saying. And so I like after a really heavy compound deadlift like that to just focus on the lats by doing a lap pull down. So I love deadlift, lap pull down. Dumbbell row.

Yeah. So I said chest supported row. Very similar. Great combination. Great pump. You get the whole back. Exceptional workout.

Yeah.

Deadlift obviously, for sure. I like the, the chest supported row at the end too. So yeah, I, I would. And I mean I do like cables like seated rows.

That's great.

And that's just one of those that, because of the demands of like a deadlift. That's why so much. Yeah.

Oh.

I mean, I mean deadlift is such a huge movement and garners so much effort that the following exercise or two that you do for back is.

Well, that's why I said chest supported. I'm glad you said that, Justin, because someone may be wondering why chest supported or why hand on the bench, dumbbell rows. You just did deadlifts and deadlifts really work the posterior chain.

You wouldn't do barbell row in the same day you do the deadlift.

Exactly.

So, like, remember, go back to what I just said in the last series is this is great. That's a great foundational. Three movements, and then just pulling one out here and there. Well, if you were to pull out the deadlift, that now gives you the opportunity to put in a barbell row inside. Inside there as the. As the compound lift. And that's what I would do. Yeah.

So, yeah, I guess I forgot lat pull downs. I guess I'd probably agree with that. Cause it's a little less demanding.

Awesome. All right, next chest. Here's a great combination. I love a barbell incline press, a flat bench dumbbell press, and then an incline fly. I love that combination. I think it hits the chest fully. I like the focus on the upper chest, aesthetically speaking, but also from a functional perspective, I think it's great. Now you can swap out the dumbbells for barbells on either exercise. But I do like the flat bench dumbbell chest press for the full range of motion.

I mean, I'm changing the dumbbell fly for a pec fly.

Okay.

Just for the. Getting all the fully contracted position. You are you about three movements there where I'm not getting that. And I just think that end range motion squeeze on the chest is for. I'm also coming from a development.

Yep.

Aesthetic.

No, I get it.

That's not the most functional.

Yeah, I like. Yeah, I like dumbbell flies with that. I would even probably do dumbbell flies on an incline bench as well, just because functionally, it just feels like I can open my chest.

You know the value of a dumbbell fly? Because I hear what you're saying. Right. So. So here's what Adam's saying. And this is pulling with the machine or cables. The weight is the same all the way through, so there is no change in the resistance. Now, when you're using dumbbells, when the dumbbells are up here towards the top, there's really no resistance. On my pecs, the resistance only happens as I bring my arms out. Now, that being said, loading a pec or a muscle in stretch position produces a lot of hypertrophy, functionally speaking speaking, which is kind of funny. There's probably advantages to the cables because I'm developing all the way through.

Right, right.

From a hypertrophy perspective, I've actually found dumbbells that might be a little bit better because of the stretch. But this is my own observation.

Well, functionally, the instability of the two also has also shoulder stability and stuff like that.

But are we like. We like Splitting hairs here. Yes.

Yeah, I mean I sometimes I follow up like a bench press with like a chest focus dip mainly just too so I can get that deep grinding. You can totally strength that way.

Yeah.

I wonder if I would. That's an interesting thought because I would probably start with that.

Really?

Yeah, I think I would start with the four bench.

Yeah, I like the, I like the dips after the incline.

Yeah, after incline.

I love that stretch you get at the bottom. At the, at the bottom.

Yeah. I'm roasted after that. Like if I do loaded dips, I, I.

Strong enough.

Yeah. I mean load. So barbell, an incline. Barbell press and loaded dips to me are in like very equal categories. And so I think of it the same for the upper. For the, like we talked about deadlifting and squatting for the upper body.

Yeah.

I, I rank it at that high. So it's like it for doing the same workout. Yeah, doing the same workout. It's not, not possible. Absolutely could do it. Absolutely have done it. But it, it can, it has that much value. It can carry the top exercise of the, of the work. And that's kind of how you look or at least how I look at it when I look at. I'm doing two or three movements for a single muscle group. Because that's what we're talking about right now. We're not talking about like a full body routine right now. We're talking about doing two or three movements in the same workout. If I'm doing that, it's like I'm looking. I'm always thinking of like, what's the.

It could be pre tax.

Yeah. What's the king movement that I want to focus on? And that's going to be. And I would consider the loaded dip, the barbell bench press, the barbell dumbbell press, all your presses. Barbell or dumbbell. Or a, or probably a weighted dip in the category of king of movements there. And so that's the one. And then the other two are.

I totally agree.

Yeah, that's kind of how I would look.

All right, let's get to shoulders. I have two absolute favorite shoulder workouts. There's two of them and they look just like this. So we have either an overhead press. Typically it's a barbell. Then go to rear lateral. Then go to side lateral. That's my three exercise combo there. Or an upright row to rear lateral to side lateral. That's my other three. Three exercise combo. Those are my two favorites. And I've used them for myself. I've used them for clients, for hypertrophy, for making big, round shoulders. They're just. It's amazing.

Oh, this will be where we're all kind of very different, I bet, because Justin's going to go very rotational involved. I'm gonna sit. I'm gonn down, and I'm gonna be.

I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna do heavy dumbbell presses to start off with. I'm definitely gonna do the. Like, a cable reverse fly for me is just one of my favorites for the. For the rear delts. And then maybe like, an upright row. Those are like the. The.

So instead of lateral upright row.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna go upright. I'm gonna go upright row. I'm gonna go seated dumbbell press, and I'm gonna go my. My cable bent when I bend over and I pull through that full range on the rear delt. Just. That's, like, one of my favorite workouts.

Yeah. I definitely do, like, obviously, barbell press first, like, overhead press, standing, also standing, and. And then probably do more of a rear lateral. And then lastly. Yeah, I'll probably do, like, a. Either, like a one arm or like an alternating rotational kettlebell press.

Yeah. Shoulder press. That's great. You know, it looks so different, right? You have this very functional perspective with shoulders with Adam and I. There's a little bit of a tr. Kind of a commonality, which looks like. Press rear side. Yeah, Press rear side now. Why. Why rear before the side? Why rear so soon in the workout?

Technically, focused.

It makes the bigger.

It's a bigger part of the shoulder. It does. Yeah.

You develop the rear delt. Your shoulder looks round. Yeah. Everybody thinks it's the side delt. It's the rear delt.

I. In fact, I will sometimes start with that.

It's important, too.

Yeah.

To really keep, you know, tracking properly.

Yeah.

And I think it's. I. To me, that's one of my favorite things to talk about with the shoulders, because I think it's neglected and overlooked for most people. I think it's an afterthought. I think a lot of people treat rear delts like lateral raises.

Yes.

You know, it's just like, can you throw in the lateral raises? Whatever light just touch them. It's like no man rear delts you can develop. And so sometimes they will lead my workout.

It makes your shoulders look crazy.

Oh.

And it. And it just. It brings the shoulders all together. I tend to treat the laterals as kind of like the. The redheaded stepchild. It's the last. Because if you do A really good press that's heavy loaded. So that. And you got a really good rear delt movement in there. Yeah, you're.

You're getting.

Your laterals are getting touched in there, or you do like, an upright row, which kind of get. Encompasses both. Like, you. You get a lot of that. And so. Which is different from when I started as a kid. As a kid, laterals was.

I did a lot of lateral.

I did a lot of lateral raises. I had this attitude of, well, my. When I bench and stuff, I get a lot of anterior shoulder stuff anyways. And when I row with back stuff, I'm getting reared anyway.

So it's just the.

So it's just when shoulders used to look. That's when I. When I got the comment of weak shoulders.

So don't.

Yeah, so don't do that. Kids. Don't just focus.

By the way, side note, shaming people has benefits. Adam's shoulders got amazing after he got shamed. Yeah, we need to start bullying each other sometimes.

It's motivation.

All right, let's get to biceps. So I have a couple combination that I really love for biceps. Standing, dumbbell curls, alternating supinating. I like the supinating action of that. Then I like an incline curl where I'm laying back and get a stretch on my bicep and then finish with the concentration or a spider cur to get the squeeze at the top. The other option I have is a barbell curl, hammer curl, preacher curl, which is the other one. And that one, to me, made my arms feel the strong. I was going, yeah. Oh, really?

Curl.

Yeah, yeah.

Hammer curl. And then like. What's the one called?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm.

I'm. I'm starting with supinated, alternating dumbbell curls, seated because I'm lazy. And then I'm going over to preacher curls, and then maybe like, spider curls. Those three together.

I love that. All different elbow position. You got the supination in there, by the way. It' other by. It's funny, we're all talking this. How often do you guys see anyone doing supinating dumbbell curls? They're not that common anymore.

Not anymore. It's kind of weird that you don't. Because I guess when I was. When I was doing arms all the time back in the days, I felt like that was a very staple because.

That'S what bodybuilders did back then.

Yeah.

But now I don't see anybody doing anything supinating that's part of the action of the biceps. Everybody like the. The turning of the hand. If the bicep is what does that? So that's part of the action of the biceps. So involving a supinating exercise.

I've also been such a. I've always been a fan. Unless I'm pressed for time, I like to alternate because the little bit of lag of time between I can load more and so I can curl more.

I also like bicep focused chin ups.

Oh, God.

So that would be like. Yeah, you're taxing one. Oh, yeah, that's brutal.

That'll. That's a great one.

Leaning forward, shoulders hunched, Squeeze the biceps.

Yeah, that'll make your arms under underrated for sure. Not done. Rarely, rarely ever see somebody do a movement like that. Always I'm excited. If I see someone, I'm like, oh, my God. Okay, this dude knows what he's doing. Like, you never see a movement like that. Everybody thinks that's a back exercise, but when done properly, it's a bicep exercise. Yeah, it absolutely could be a bicep.

All right, triceps. I have a three exercise combo that will blow up anybody's tricep. It just does close grip, bench press, overhead tricep extension, either with dumbbell or easy curl bar. So you get in the stretch tricep press, down with the squeeze. That combination right there will light up.

No qualms for me. I like that one. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely a. The close grip bench press was life changing for me when that was introduced to me. Like, I just, I never seen my, My arms blow up like that before, and I felt like I did a lot of the other stuff before that. And so that was. Dips would be the, the easy switch out there.

Weighted dips. If I'm gonna go, like, real taxing.

Yeah. Or on the rings, either one of those. Can I. I go. I could go back and forth as the, as the king exercise for the. For the tricep. And then I agree, like an oh. Whether you do cable dumbbell, an overhead extension in that stretch, stretch position, and then to kind of finish it off, like a tricep push down or any variant to that is. Yeah, great, great exercise.

There you go. So everybody's got just the major body parts that you could train. Some good exercise combos, try them out.

And you could really run those. And like I said, just every four weeks or so, pull them out. Yeah, pull one movement out and alternate with something. And you know, if you were. If you're being really good, you're. You're thinking like, Justin, you know, at least every other time and one of us every time. In other words, like, I'm one day. Or if I'm always back barbell, back squatting, I'm gonna go, okay. I'm not doing anything that addresses any rotation or. Or stability, so I'm gonna do something that's unilateral or moving.

If you're gonna think laterally, too, with legs especially, do, like, caustic squat, lateral lunge, throw that in there to replace.

So, yeah, every once in a while, rotate one of those out and give yourself a movement that challenges stability or a different plane of motion to really stay balanced functionally. Because I think the mistake like that we. You could do in what I did for sure, as a younger kid, lifting is so bodybuilder focused that that's all. And because you're gonna get great, and even if you are aesthetically driven, you're still gonna get the aesthetics from those movements. And then because of the novelty of it, and you're also addressing the stability in different planes, and that'll keep you going longer.

Great point. Yeah. Speaking of which, I. I've had to switch my workout focus to more kind of hypertrophy bodybuilding again, because I was going heavier for a little while. I was having fun with that. I started deadlifting again, but then my joints start to talk to me, and it just. It happens sooner now, you guys. It now happens sooner in my training where I have to kind of back out, and I can do it for about three weeks until I start to feel my elbows, my wrist a little bit, my knee, or my hip. So now for the past, you know, few workouts, I wish.

I wish it was just chronic pain that kept me from that. What it is for. I get injured. I've been getting so. I got injured so much in the last couple years that I've just. I've totally bailed on really, really going super heavy on you.

Maybe just be consistent for a while with just straight body.

Yeah. And that's just. It is. I. I haven't. I haven't. What hap. What has happened is ramping up too fast to that really, totally heavy stuff. And then injuries happen. So it's like I. Now I've just told myself, like, there's no reason for me to be doing that. It's all ego for me to do that. It's like, so. Which is why I don't even like lifting when there's anybody in here, because that's when I have a tendency.

I was talking to Adam the other day like it was just laughing because did the lamest workout I've done in a long time.

And it was just hip thrust, right? Yeah.

I was like, sal be so I.

Wish I had a video of it.

On hip thrust all the time. And I was like, you know what? I. Because of, I've just been dealing with this chronic pain like occasionally and I'll wake up and I'm like, I gotta really just focus on this. And then also to include other things too to address this instability. So bringing back Bulgarian split squats. Doing a lot more like caustic squats and kind of going through like a lot of these, like, you know what? Not, not big gross motor movement type exercises. But yeah, it was just funny doing lateral bandwagon. Lateral bandwagon? Yeah, and all that stuff. Trying to build it back, dude. Jump roping and like getting, you know, more acceleration training back. It just exposes all these.

You're also a big dude that's jump roping. You're not like 160 pound guy, bro. You're a moose.

Nothing petite, but it's all flopping.

You know. Hey, hey, you know what it is? Part of it is because people are like, oh, you guys are fitness guys. How can this happen? Well, part of it is that we have all this built up muscle memory and strength that when we go back to training heavy, the risk versus reward ratios gets thrown off very quickly. So I start. I haven't deadly. I didn't deadlifted in a long time, months because I'd torn my hamstring. It was my first major injury actually in my entire life. And so I was like, I'm just gonna take it easy actually, I'm gonna skip this exercise. Didn't deadlift. Didn't deadlift. Started easing my way back into it and I'm getting filmed for my series and part of me was like, I'm not gonna deadlift on my series because this is an exercise I'll get carried away with anyway, especially if I'm on camera. At least that's what I thought. And as we're going, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna start deadlifting. And actually what happened was the camera actually kept me in check because, well.

That'S what I told you guys about my series. Yeah, when my, when I was, when I was doing my series, I felt like it was a really good accountability for me to stick to what I said I was going to do. You know, what's best versus like what my ego would want to create.

Well, I thought it would do the opposite. I thought because I'm on camera I'm going to want to push the weight. But the reality was getting hurt on camera was a way bigger fear. I'm not gonna get hurt on camera.

So I watched Adam do that enough times.

So, you know, we did the first. I know like three times dud. Most viewed videos. So we were pulling and I'm like, you know what? I went. I don't remember what I did. I went up to. Actually I did three plates and then I went up to four and then I went to four. And I really ease my way up in the way. And even this week I took off. I'm going to take deadlifting off completely. But again, when you start to get really strong, the risk versus reward ratio starts to get thrown off. And it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to push strength past a certain point. Like, I'm not going to get a lot of benefit from going up to a 600 pound deadlift trying to fill.

In all the gaps.

I'm not even close. I'm not even close to that. Maybe would work up to three plates. I'm not even like, not even messing with anything beyond that because that's for me, that's when any sort of injuries happen is beyond that, anything below that. And that's so, you know, we, we forget, like, it's still good. That's such a good load to like for. If we're talking longevity, just overall strength. Yeah. I'm not impressing anybody.

Yeah.

With those numbers. But let's be honest, like that is. I'm not. You don't need any more horsepower than that. And anything you're ever going to do. And I am.

I gotta say though, bro, that's like. I love bodybuilding workouts. I love having a good pump. Love it. But I love being strong. I love lifting really heavy more.

Mm.

It's just, of course I could care less about the pump when that happens.

I mean that's always been my driver.

Yeah, dude. Like if I'm lifting heavy and I'm just like my got chalk on my hands and I'm just seeing what I'm.

Moving and it's crushing me.

I just. Yeah. And I just feel. I just feel.

I mean, I get it. You guys were the ones that really kind of pushed me into that direction and it was very addicting. It was super addicting. But I, I really have to blame you guys for all the injuries. I didn't have no injuries before that, dude. Nothing. You know what I'm saying they never. Honestly, it's. It's. You were injury free forever. Injury free, dude injury. Other than like a real.

I blame you for my tumors.

Yeah.

Seriously, though. And it's. Hey, it says a lot about Dexter Jackson is one who's famous for being just like, yes for. And. And, you know, chasing the pump, not lifting PR heavy like that. You can build a hell of physique through just good intensity volume training. And it does not.

You push anything to. To, you know, to a point, and you keep pushing it. You're. You're definitely sacrificing longevity. Yeah, I think.

I think what also would probably. I mean, there's nothing like. I mean, there is this adrenaline rush you get when you pick something up really heavy that somebody else can't lift. You know, there's something about that feels good on the ego. You also. I think what also was addicting for me when I went that direction was the gains did come on faster than probably anytime anything I'd ever seen. So that's also probably really addicting is like. Like when you're really pushing strength, you feel solid. It does. Yeah. You do feel like. I mean, it's a very loud signal that the body's going, we need way more muscle than we have.

Yeah.

And you tend to. Versus I really believe this. And I would be interesting if there's studies to support this theory is that, I mean, volume training will definitely, like, tell the body it needs muscle, but it doesn't seem to be as loud of a signal as the. You're gonna lift something grinding, super heavy. That almost seems like it's a super loud signal. It's like, oh, we need a lot more.

And the other part of it too is. Is for the aver. The first few years of training, that's the most important thing you do is you get stronger.

Yeah.

It's just after that, once you get to a certain level of strength, then it. You get diminishing returns. You know, to go from I can only pick up £100 off the floor to picking up £250 exceptional. To go from 250 to 300. Now the results start to wane a little bit. And as the higher the weights go, the more diminishing the results happen from it, and the higher the risk of injury because you're off by a half a percent of your technique with a. With, you know, £500 on your back. Like, that could. That could cause severe injury, you know.

Because you guys kind of like have two directions that you'll kind of navigate with that. It'll be like, heavier. That'll go back to like bodybuilding and squeeze.

And you only have one direction?

No, Well, I realize I have two, but like, it's.

What are they?

So the other one is smashing things. So it's like.

That's the same direction. Just heavy.

Crushing weight or smashing, dude. Like punching something really hard, kicking something really hard, jumping really high.

One's crushing your spine. The other one's crushing a tire, bro. Both of it's crushing.

I have two speeds, guy. Hard and hard.

Harder.

So what are you doing? Are you hitting a bag?

Yeah, yeah. Start. Start the punch and. And get some Muay Thai back. But like, I think it's. I think really it's just like the physical contact portion of it because I've. I don't think you guys really. How long I would drill, like, just constantly, like hitting and. And working on my tackling technique and. And working on just like smashing my entire body into things. So it's like you become like. That just gets ingrained in you. Like, that's just like your operating system.

It's so funny because that's your personality.

How you text. We were talking about this yesterday.

It's all making sense.

We talked about Justin having sex.

Surprisingly gentle and hard when I want to be.

Sorry, Doug. Sorry, Doug.

You guys brought it up.

How you do anything.

I get no complaints.

You know what I would love to do? I've never. Have you guys ever gotten a bone density test?

Does it have come on the DEXA scans? Is it not on there?

I don't think so. You've got.

That's so random. What made you think.

Because. Here's why.

Because you think you got osteoporosis.

You feel a little wavy.

I think you're all right, dog.

No, because. Because who was it? Somebody. One of our friends in this. In the fitness space talked about how their bone density came. Oh, no, it was Dennis. Dennis Roberts. Yeah, our buddy jiu jitsu guy. He got a bone density test and he said that it came back and it was like his bones are twice as strong as the average humans, I believe. It got me curious because I've been strength trained since I was 14.

Yeah. He's also taking interesting. Taking hits, bro.

Nothing builds bone like.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But he's doing both, though. Don't you think that's going to. Of course, contact.

And he's also genetically a monster. He's a genetic free tooth. I'm not saying I want to compare them. I just am curious to See where my bone density is.

It would be interesting to see how you would, how you would compare to somebody like that who's not only strength training but also taking. Taking.

I just want to see how I am like where's my bone density? If I'd be fascinating to see like in compared to the average person.

So what I always felt like, do we have any studies to compare? You know, because I mean old school techniques is like, you know, kicking a tree or hard, things like that to build up that.

Yeah.

You know how, how much of that compared to somebody who just squats really heavy, would you say?

So the difference is this, when you look at, when they do, when they do scans of like old karate. So karate is a good example because classics. Yeah. Classic Japanese karate, they, they condition the hands and they would hit boards and you'd see these old guys, nobody really does this anymore. Maybe there are people that you're not going to find a karate school like this in most cities. But the old school ones, you'd see these, these instructors and their knuckles would be like distorted and huge. And essentially what you're doing by hitting things is you're causing micro fractures. So if you look at a bone under a microscope, it's kind of like a honeycomb shape on the inside with little pockets of air. And what happens is those, those little honeycombs, the bone in between starts to fracture and the little pockets of air fill in and the bone gets more and more dense. Yeah. And so this is what you'll see in a scan of like a tie fighter shins or femur or it's almost.

Like they say like deadening the nerves which, but you just don't really feel that impact as much.

Yeah.

So. But strength training strengthens bones as well in a different way. I would just be fascinated to see. That would be. Yeah, because I don't know, I don't swim very well. That's what my excuse is. I have dense bones.

I'm gonna use that excuse. Yeah, I'm a terrible swimmer. I just feel like my body's not like made for that.

No, it' not. I don't feel buoyant.

Adam, Adam's like a boat dude.

Hollow bones, speedboat.

It's all that body fat.

But I would be curious, I would.

Be very curious on that. Any. Anyway. Hey, I, I, I read something the other day. Sometimes I like to see what like the root definition of a word is because I think it's very telling of what that word means, you know, necessarily because I think give an example so I'll give you an example. So. So I was reading the Bible, and in there, Jesus will refer to like the Pharisees as you Hypocrites. He uses that word quite a bit. Hypocrites. That word came from the Greek word. And I wrote down. I'm going to read what that word is and what the definition is. The word is Hippocrates, which means an actor or a stage player.

So Hippocrates, pretending to be something you're not.

You're an actor.

Yeah. Pretending to be something you're not.

So whenever actors try to tell you what to think, just know who you're listening to. These are all, you know. Isn't that interesting?

That is interesting. But I mean, I think it. That's how we would call. I mean, that's really what you're saying about somebody who is a hypocrite.

Right. If they pretend to be.

Yeah, they. Yeah, they pretend to be one thing and they're really something else. Would be. It would be how you would define that.

So.

Because I'm always interested in when we. The. The root of something is different than how people tend to. Like, it's like it's morphed over time. Like it would. The origin was something like that. But it's like, oh, that's interesting. We really don't use it appropriately. People tend to use it this way. But it really means some of this. And I have an example because I can't remember. Well, did you know.

Do you guys know that the word. You know how people refer to a baby in utero as a fetus? Fetus literally in Latin means baby. So it just means baby. It's the same definition.

Oh, interesting. See, that's a great example. Yeah. There's an example of something that we.

It turned it into just like organisms.

Yeah. We define it like it's a clump of cell. People use it like it's a clump of cells.

Where the origin of the word fetus literally means baby. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just we've used it in a way that that kind of takes it away from that word or whatever.

Yeah. I find that more interesting. I find when there is a word that it's a. It's very clear what the origin was. And over time we've bastardized it or changed it or we use it for something else and then we all just.

You know what I heard Yesterday? We had Dr. Benson, we interviewed him. Yeah. Do you know what he said is politically incorrect to say now? Homeless.

Oh, yeah. That homeless.

Is politically incorrect.

You can't say someone.

You say bomb again. Huh? We say bum again.

You say hobo.

No, I say bum.

It's bum.

Corrects me.

You can't say no, because he was. When he. When you're doing. When, you know, he works in the er. Worked emergency. And if you. If you can't say, oh, this person's a. Yeah.

Like, he had to be real careful.

Without home.

No, I think. What. What did. What did you say? Dylan.

Dylan came up with soften that.

Unhoused and houseless.

Unhoused.

Why do we difference?

What's the why. Why do we do this? Homeless and unhoused.

We are so, so concerned about everybody's feelings.

No, we. Creating situations that don't. That don't exist. I don't think a homeless person. I don't think if you're a.

It's certain people projecting weird ideas.

Yeah, I'm unhoused. Like, nobody cares. This is. These are people who have homes, who have nothing better to do but try to make people feel bad for using a word that's normal. It's just crazy weird.

Is there. There's probably. There had. Have been something that happened, pivotal that caused that to happen.

Right.

It doesn't just happen overnight. So something happened. Right.

I almost feel like. With a political.

Well, yes, always.

That's always the case.

Yeah. You got a theory, Doug? You look at my words.

I kind of do. So you have a word that starts to have negative connections to it. So over time, they just create a new word. So I'm trying to think of a good example of that. But, you know, there are some words that.

Inflation.

Yeah, Inflation.

Yeah.

How can you improve that?

Yeah.

Money grew.

Yeah, exactly.

Abundance.

Anyway, did you guys bring the. The Megalon Megalodon tooth home? Yeah.

Not yet. I have mine here.

Oh, my God.

I got it. I gotta bring it home.

So who was.

My kids were so excited.

So it was, like, a fan, right?

Yeah, it was Tyler's. His client, I believe.

Right.

And he goes diving deep and he finds these. Yeah.

Off the curve.

I had no idea. Their comparison of the great white, bro, that's a huge.

It's as big as my head. It's.

It's like. If you just like, think about the size, the pure size, because that tooth just dwarfs, like, a regular, like, white. Great white.

Doug's holding one. Look at this. So.

So you. You looked up Doug and you remember what the number was. How many of those are in. In the Megalodon shark's mouth. Mouth.

Yeah. Two hundred and something.

So two hundred and something of those. And that thing weighs at least two pounds.

Everett. Everett told me there's like five rows.

The one I have.

Yours is bigger though.

Yeah.

Yeah. So. Yeah, that's right, Doug. So it's. Mine's like. Mine's bigger and weighs. But just. I mean. Let's just say. I mean you could say it's one, one and a half whatever. But 200 and some of those in a. In a 400 pound mouth. Imagine the power of that crushing down on something is that's.

Well, first of all, it wasn't a Megalodon the size of a school bus.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I didn't know.

It's not gonna bite you. It's just gonna swallow biting him.

I didn't. I didn't even know that it was that. That big of a size. Yeah.

Unless you're a whale. Like that's probably what they eat.

I. I actually thought great white was one of the bigger sharks. I didn't realize that.

Well, Megalodon doesn't exist anymore.

So. Okay. That's.

Why did you think Omega.

I don't. I would never go in the.

Bro.

We just covered the other day we just covered the other day that there's more undiscovered parts of the ocean than anywhere anywhere else. It's like.

No.

And a guy's diving down and finding these fossils.

Best you thought for thank God we cleared this up. You thought Megalod dos were still swimming.

To this point. I didn't know that there was one that existed that was.

That was bigger than a great white. I mean I just assumed.

They have found giant squid though. And that was supposedly myth.

Bro.

Were you like about to like. We're not going in the ocean ever again.

Well, I don't know if I'm any more or less scared of a great white versus you know what I'm saying? I think I'd be equally terrified.

You know, T. Rex is not exist.

I had no idea.

That's an extinct man.

That would be terrifying.

I mean I had. I had no idea.

Yeah. Have you seen there's giant squid that are. That still exist. That are massive. Yeah, massive, bro.

How big. How big are we talking?

Like I don't know if it was Japan was off the coast of Asia where they've actually found and like, like pulled in.

Yes. Like sperm whale will have attack marks on them. Sperm whales are huge. Yeah. And they'll have suction mark attacks on them and they'll measure the size of it. And Doug, look up how Big these giant squids are.

Yeah, they can go up to 43ft. 600 pounds.

600 pounds?

Bro, I want you.

That Megalodon is crazy. Well, but these exist actually now.

Well, I mean.

Well, they did at one point, right? Oh, they did. Who knows creatures around the part of the ocean you guys don't know about too careful how much you talk right now.

Look at. If you could look up a report. It's in Australia, like off the coast. They had found like, I think it was a great white that got like a huge bite out of it. And it was like they couldn't explain, like what kind of creature could produce this huge.

They don't think it was a killer whale?

No, they didn't think it was a kid. It was bigger than that.

So maybe a Megalodon is swimming around somewhere.

Well, there's been a couple reports like that that there's like off the coast.

He's gonna keep.

I know you bone, but like I did. Ready? Something about that.

And so what was. Give me, give me. What, what?

So more of the story. There was like a, one of the tracks. So they had like a, you know, one of those trackers that they, they put on for scientific research, and it swallowed it. Like, because the thing is like something swallowed it and brought it down to the depths of the deep ocean.

And they don't know, and they don't know what it was. Oh, really? Yeah, really. Something giant swallowed it and took it to the bottoms. And we have a tracker. I read about that.

I know, right?

Just like these dinosaurs don't ex.

Exist. Yeah, bro. He's like, wait a minute, maybe this too.

So according to our, according to our carbon dating, how old are these Megalodons? How, how, how big? I'm curious. I know with school bus size. But what, what would that weight wise be? I mean, that thing had to be tons.

Oh yeah, bro.

Multiple tons.

Have you seen the movie Meg? That. That's, that's, that's showing a Megalodon.

Oh, is that what that's supposed to be about?

Yeah, there was, there's one alive and it was attacking.

Oh. Oh, interesting. Well, we know how much stuff comes true about movies. Yeah, they know something we don't know.

So between up to 94 tons.

94 tons?

Yes, bro.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, a ton is 2, 000 pounds. That's insane.

Yeah, that's huge.

Holy.

That's a big old shark, bro.

That's so. That's so big. If it bumped into something, it would like.

You know what sucks about destroy. If you're on a yacht and eat buildings. If you're on a boat, you're dead, bro.

You're on a carrier. It puts a hole in that thing. I'm serious. Maybe like, I mean, think about that for a second. 94 tons runs into a carrier. That' probably putting a hole in that.

Little bit of a bump maybe. I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Steel, right?

That's true. Yeah, I. Yeah, I crazy the way killer whales. You guys know how killer whales, what they do to great whites, right?

Yeah. They go for the liver.

They flip them upside down so they, they organize. They flip a great white upside down, which kind of makes him paralyzed, and they, they like surgically remove the liver and leave the rest of the shark. They eat the liver? Yeah.

Crazy.

They eat the liver and leave the rest of the shark the nutrient dense liver.

Over.

Let's leave all the rest.

They leave the rest.

That's interesting.

That's crazy, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it has to be so nutrient dense to be worth attacking something like that and then leaving all the rest.

It is. Wow. I know.

I didn't know I saw one.

I know, I know.

This smart.

My son was asking me, so I'm like, let's watch some videos.

I know. I've seen, I've seen those videos of where they're like getting seals and things like that. They work together.

Yeah. The ice, the water.

Yeah. And they all knock it like certain ways to then flip the seal.

Crazy. That's funny too, because we think of killer whales as being like, cute.

Yeah.

But they're way.

Well, they don't typically attack humans.

You put them in captivity and you.

You dance on pissing them off.

Doug, do orcas attack humans in the wild?

Not in the wild. That's why I haven't really heard of these.

No, they don't.

That's why it was such a big deal when whatchamacallit happened when they did attack blackfish. Is that the documentary? Yeah.

Yeah. Right?

I mean, Kevin in captivity.

Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why it was such a. Was such a big deal is because, like, everyone's like, they're not supposed to attack humans, but, you know, they also. It's different when you put them in captivity and do stuff like that.

Interesting. Interesting. You know, we had a caller earlier, I got a comment on something and I looked this up off air, so I wanted to bring it up on the show. She said that her Planet Fitness has barbells and a squat Rack. Yeah. And you made a comment, Adam, and I was going to say more, but I'm like, hold it for the show. You were like, market. They're listening to the market.

Yeah.

So I went online and I looked up does Planet Fitness Gyms use barbells? And a lot of locations do.

Interesting.

A lot of. And I think it depends on the location. And I think you're right, bro. I think their little experiment of not putting barbells in because we don't want people deadlifting and stuff like that. And now the popularity of strength training is growing so much that the average person is now wanting to deadlift. Squat. That's volume.

It speaks volumes. It's also brilliant. I mean, you, you got to give them the. I mean, even though we. We kind of on the company a lot because of like, they marketed. I mean, literally. And the reason why, if you haven't heard us talk about before, it's like you, when you, when your desired outcome is, is to help people get people fit in shape, I think that's a good place to be if you're a gym or you're a trainer or things like that. But when your desired outcome is to organize a business that you don't want your customers to use the gym but still pay you because you, you can't.

Profit if they all use.

That's right. So you have to under. People have to understand that. That like, like that model. If ever. If, if you're me, if you're. If 50% of your members were successful and showed up, it doesn't work. It works because they put the price so low they are banking on you not coming, but still paying the membership. That's a bit, you know, like, that's not. To me, that's a. That's a. That's a. I don't know.

I don't like the.

Very misleading.

Yeah, yeah. That would be like us selling something intentionally wanting our. The thing that we sell to people for them to fail. Like, like, like, right. We do. We help trainers. Right, Right. If we were putting something out that is almost like sabotaging their business and, and then our whole business is about pumping more of them through it just so we can make money. But then really the information we're giving them is hopefully going to make their business fail. That's not a.

The irony is the more this is literally how it works, the more members they get that don't use the gym, the lower the prices can go.

Yep.

That's literally how it works.

Yes.

And this, this has been the Gym model. Generally speaking, for big box gyms. For a while Planet Fitness just took it to a whole new level to the point where they, this is what they did. Here's what I want people to understand because people thought, oh, that's funny. No, no, they were strategic. They did commercials. You could find them, you can find them on YouTube where they would paint the stereotype of a bodybuilder where they're in there with their tank tops and their clanging weights and then they set off a lunk alarm which Planet Fitness some of them still have in there and they're like, you know, you got to get out of the gym. We don't want you in here. Now here's the strategy with that A. There is some fear about working out around bodybuilders, but it's not that big of a fear, you guys. It's not like this thing that's keeping people away from the gy. That's not really what it is. What it is is they're trying to talk people into using the gym who aren't going to use it and talk people who are going to use it a lot into not going to their gym. That's right, yeah. So it's like we don't want people who work out a lot and then.

They, then they throw in the once a month free pizza thing for you to go like, well, if I just eat pizza.

Yep.

$9 that make. I mean, it's a wash. That's right. And so it becomes a. Oh, okay. Well, it's a payment no matter what, regardless, I'm using it. And so that was the. So anyways, that was the whole point of me sharing that was that that's why we trashed him so much earlier on. But really cool to see that the market has spoken and that enough people that even go to their gyms are saying, hey, we need, we need barbells.

That's the only option in that area, you know, and it's, it's been frustrating because it's like, you know, they only have, it's like Smith machines the closest. And it's like it's not the same thing.

But so the prediction, so the prediction for me is that yeah, they used that strategy, the original one that we were talking about pizza not or not wanting the bodybuilder on there, there to grow and build and to separate themselves in the market, which was probably very brilliant. Now I think you will actually see them totally build and structure towards what everybody wants, which, I mean, look for functional fields in their necks look for things that attract the crossfitter or attract other people that go. Because now they have a big enough piece of the pie that they can start to shift and steer the market a bit. And so I think that that's where they'll go.

Doug, just look up. They discontinued the free pizza back in 2020.

There you go.

Go.

Oh, wow.

There you go.

Interesting.

So they're totally, they're totally pivoting.

That was a lot of heat for that. That's why it just makes no sense. Say, hey, you know, come to our conflict of interest. Alcohol, anonymous club, free drinks on. What's going on here, dude? What are you guys doing?

Yeah, I didn't realize they stopped that in 2020. I thought they were still, they were still doing that. But I mean that again, more of the listening to the market. They probably got a lot of heat for that. And, and, and they.

I want to talk about something. I want to change directions here because we had a caller talk about this, and we often, we often talk to people who have trouble sleeping, and we typically talk to people who have trouble falling asleep. But another very common phenomena is people who can fall asleep just fine, but wake up at 3am and they can't go back to sleep and they feel restless. So what this feels like for you, if this is you, this is what it looks like. You go to sleep just fine because you're exhausted, and then you wake up three, four hours later, and then it's a bunch of, of back to sleep, wake up, back to sleep, wake up.

Look at the clock, Go back and sleep. Look at the clock.

Yeah, and it's all night long until the alarm goes off, and then you feel exhausted. And this is a problem that I don't think is often addressed. And there are a couple potential solutions. So one, I, I saw the sleep expert talk about this, and I thought it was brilliant because it made sense. I haven't tried it yet. But if, but you have nothing to lose. As if this is you and you've tried everything, you got nothing to lose. Give this a shot. So what he said was, is, he said typically what people will do when they wake up at, you know, 2:00am, 3:00am, whatever, is, they'll wake up, look at the alarm clock, close their eyes, and try to go back to sleep. And then they end up doing this game of, I have three hours left before I have to wake up. I have two hours. Why can't I go back to sleep? And they're just trying. He said, listen, you're awake. You can't go back to sleep. Get up. He said, get up. Keep the lights really low. Don't turn on bright lights and do something very counterintuitive. He said, do something relaxing, like read. Like read a paper book in bed. And he said, and then when you feel sleepy, go back to sleep. And this particular expert said he had way more success with that than having people just try to stay.

I'm super curious to hear. I mean, because you also gave her the advice to try Brain fm, which I think is a great piece of advice.

I did that because Brain FM's data shows that it doesn't just help people fall asleep, it helps them stay asleep. And so if you play this in the background, either in headphones or. I know they say that, you know, they don't. They don't say do this, but it works is you play it in the background. Yeah. Throughout the night. And it helps. It helps people stay asleep and wake up. Yeah.

So it'll be interesting to see if she goes and applies those two things and if one helps her more than the other. I mean, she hadn't tried Brain fm, so, I mean, she had done a lot of the other traditional things. So I'm actually really excited to see Brim, because I don't know every family member friend works. I've introduced that, too. I've never met somebody who says, oh, it was negligible or I didn't notice a difference. Everybody knows the difference. It's literally how much of an impact it's made. And it's. Some people, it's. It's dramatic.

That's my. That's what I use on planes every time. Every single time I use in a plane. And it's like. Makes a big difference. So. Yeah. Anyway, I read a crazy story about Al Capone. This is totally, you know, out of left field. But it was an interesting story. I looked it up to make sure it was true.

I love old gangster stories.

Dude, this is a trip. So trip off this. Right, Right. There's a musician, famous jazz pianist, Fats Walt Waller. So Fats Waller was a. He was. He's famous. People are into jazz.

Know he is always like a Fats.

I know, I know. Isn't that funny? Back then they would. Your name would be something rude. Pirate John.

Yeah.

Anyway, his name was Fats Waller, famous jazz player. Right. He was kidnapped. He was kidnapped by Al Capone's mobsters. So they literally kidnapped him to surprise Al capone for his 28th birthday. And then when he got there. When he got there, they're like, we want you to play for him. And so then the rest of the night he played music and got super drunk. And apparently they all started treating him well. And then they dropped him off hammered and with thousands of dollars worth of tips. And he never pressed charges. Probably because he was afraid.

Was he initially.

Bro. They literally kidnapped him for his birthday. Happy birthday. You know. Take off the blindfold. You're gonna play right now. Play song.

Play.

It's all crazy Tommy guns. Isn't that wild? But he earned thousands of. So they. Of course they tipped the hell out of him. Just paid him a lot of money. And I guess he got into it. And his story is that he had a good time.

Yeah.

Could also be scared. But that isn't right.

What do you. What are you following or paying attention to? Where something like that comes up in your feed?

I don't know.

That's a really.

I think I just click on this stuff and more of it pops up. Yeah.

So I have no idea.

I went to a couple of those speakeasies when I was in Chicago.

The real one.

Yeah.

I wish we. Stuff like that here. It's so lame that we have a city and we're not. We don't have stuff like that. I think San Francisco has one or two.

They have. They have different kind of.

I love that kind of history.

Careful where you walk into something.

No, I'm. You're right. Dude. It's not like. Like what Justin's talking about. We need more of those. Where were we all together?

Where.

We went to one that I. Austin. Oh, was it Austin?

It was Austin. Austin. And they organized it like.

Oh, I remember that one. Deloney told us about that place.

Was that him?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it was like this. It had had a. No signs or anything. And you could go in there and it was. They played like jazz and stuff.

I love that lounge. I mean, kind of similar. I love that. That lounge feel of a. Not like a bar.

Ideal kind of bar where it's more of like a cocktail.

Yeah. And you're sitting that place that I've. We went together. Doug Vesper. That's in Willow Glass.

Well, what's great about it is that it really. I don't know. Induces the conversation because. And this is. I mean, I've even found this from my own house. This is why I love playing jazz at my house house when I have company. Because I like music. I love me. We all love music. But even my favorite music I like to listen. Personally listen to is not conducive. For conversation.

Yeah.

Where. Where instrumental stuff powers everything. Yes. Low level instrumental stuff in the background. That's easy listening. It just, it. I don't know it like it creates that environment of good conversation and talking versus you know, listening to words in a song. And so I've completely. When I have parties or have people at my house, it's. Oh yeah.

It's easy to love Chicago. There's so many jazz and BL clubs like that that were really like unique and you know, you, you obviously had to know somebody who knows how to get in there. And I remember seeing like like B.B. king's daughter and like they just be random really cool artists that would come through.

I like, you know I would, you know I would love to have something like that. Like that's like a. That's like a dream or a. Or to own. Yeah, I would love it. It doesn't need to make money. Literally just needs to just pay for itself.

I love him for first.

I see. I would rather have the speakeasy.

All.

Around us and plus the gym is work for me.

Dude.

That's that being in there will remind me of.

Yeah, I need a second.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like a really cool custom gym too because I, I that's.

I just had one just dream just I want either a supplement company or, or a gym.

You dream about doing more building more work around your work. That's like.

That's not the dream though.

I just want to having. Having a private, private like elite club that you have to knock on a door, be invited by somebody that you know that you have special to hang special artists because you've got connections and relationships with people that like that. That come in and play for a small intimate group of 50, 60 people. Like oh yeah, good food and stuff. I would love to do something like that. Kind of cool, dude.

Did you guys hear about like what they're doing for Stranger Things this last season?

No.

I got so excited, dude.

What.

So each episode is going to be anywhere from like like 90 to 120 minutes.

So longer.

So they're. And they're treating them like each is a blockbuster movie. Eight blockbuster movies back to back now.

They all connected or they all separate?

They're all connected and it's all following the same like storyline like that they're trying to go out with a huge bang.

So this is. Okay, so this is interesting because this is something that I think I, I actually think podcasting is really what but has sent media and stuff in this direction that we historically have had these like sitcom, short attention span things. And we're proving that we can, we enjoy these longer form story lines.

Longer, more complex story lines that you can really follow because yeah, when it stops, it's like, oh, that sucks.

I canceled my Netflix.

Well, yeah, maybe just for that.

I know.

I, I, I watched one or two of those seasons, but it's, it's not my, that's not my jam.

Yeah.

Did you get into it, Doug? I didn't get into it.

I did, I think I. Season one and two.

Yeah, that's. I watched Mar2. I was like, it was kind of like it lost me after a while. It wasn't. I mean, I get it if that's the stuff you guys are into. That type of stuff.

Yeah, I'm not totally. I won't keep it.

Whatever.

I got to talk about you. Have you guys noticed this?

Well, I'm into it. So you guys.

Tell me.

I really don't care if you don't like my stuff. Listen, you got a lot of people behind you. I'm not gonna talk. You know what I'm saying?

It's one of the most popular series.

Yeah. Is it's for sure possible.

Have you guys, have you guys noticed how quickly we just got a huge shipment of the, the crisp power protein gone.

Oh, I went yesterday to get some for myself. I can't, I do not like Jerry when you listen to this. This is like part of the deal. I thought we talk. You know, you're supposed to. She's supposed to carve off stuff for the founders and then because with the staff we have now something good hits the, Hits our place, they're gone and we don't police it. So it's just like.

What's your guys favorite flavor?

Flaming hot.

And the cheddar. Yeah, yeah.

She thinks cheddar.

They're really, they're.

I heard Doug say when we were looking up that today about them, that their cinnamon one is a real popular one. It was good, but it wasn't the. I didn't think it was the best.

No, I think it was the most requested one, meaning that they didn't have it.

And people were asking, someone said, make a cinnamon one. I think, you know, when I ate it, I couldn't help but think pouring milk in it, like making a cereal out. That's what I felt like when I was eating.

You know what I would do is I would dip it in peanut butter.

Or something like that. Yeah, cinnamon and peanut butter might be all right. He's all cheddar, dude. I sent him over this cheddar, this cheese macaroni cheese recipe with like, like cheez, its crunch. It was like, disgustingly, like, good though. There's a part you kind of want to try that.

You know, Taco Bell's the king of that. They'll combine things.

What are you doing, dude?

I had ears.

I. I was going to share with you guys a dad thing. I did share a little bit yesterday with you, you know, when these, these. I'm obviously, I'm behind everybody, right? So I'm. I'm the last dad. So. As I'd shared recently the. How cool it was that my. My son can beat me at something. It was like, like, it's so. It's funny as these dad moments happen to me that just. It never crossed my mind that that would be something that like, gives me so much.

You didn't let him win. He'd actually.

Yeah, no, that's. And there's a huge difference. Like, obviously he's six. I've been playing games with him since he was a little kid. But come. Come on. I mean, let's, you know, I'm. I'm doing everything I can to let him win. So he has fun and enjoys it. But, like, we're now I'm like, really trying to win and I'm getting beat. And so I actually, like, look forward to coming home. Like, you want to play your new. Let's go. You know, saying like, I want to play. You know what I'm saying? It's like, exciting. So that's a really cool thing for me. Thing I was bringing up though, it's. Which is also interesting I shared way back when when how watching certain shows on TV changed for me because if I saw like a kid, kid, you know, a child get taken. I was watching, like, remember I told you guys almost cried. I was watching a medieval show where.

You took the firstborn son. I can't do that.

And it's like, how weird.

It's totally different now.

It's weird how something like, I mean, I'm 40 something years old, so I'm pretty aware of my personality. Things I like things that affect me emotionally. So when. When new things that I would have never thought of driving home yesterday and like, fighting back tears, listening to Katrina talk to me as she's reporting back the. She was on. She. I didn't make the. The zoom call, but our school does, you know, zoom call, like parent conference stuff to go over your son. And she's like, Literally repeating back to me like everything the teacher said. And like hearing a teacher talk about your son is like their favorite student in the class and for all the reasons. And then also to commend her parenting because it's just like, oh man, just. It took everything for me not to cry like listening to that because it was. I think, you know, as a parent, you're. You're always thinking of like you. There's part of you at least I think everybody is like, you know, you know you're going to screw something up. What are you not going to. What are you going to miss? What are you not going to do enough of what are you going to overreach on? Like as a. And you're just hoping you get it right that he. The kid's not a fuck up or he's not this bad kid or he's not like, I mean, listen, I hear there's other kids in the class that I know that you know, like it has a reputation. Like, oh, that kid's always bad for parents. I do, I do.

I.

And so there's a part of me, I'm like, oh man, that if that was me, like, I have a. I have a close friend and some kids are just bro.

Or this.

I couldn't like, she. She talks about. She's like, it's so cool that we. Because again, another thing that this school does, I really like, they do all these things to inc. Not just the education part, but the life skills things that they. They include. And I feel like every teacher, parent conference, I. I learned something new. And this teacher that this new class he's in, she intentionally rotates their seats all the time purely out of the. To. To put them in uncomfortable situations and have to meet a new kid and befriend. And she just talks about how every time, you know, that she's like, he's. He. Everybody likes him. Everybody wants to be friends with him. And then Katrina is like, well, you know, that's all great. She goes, but our concern. We don't want our son to be a pushover. She's. Oh, no, no. He's. He. He'll tell you if he doesn't want to do something. And he's. She goes, that's one of the things that we love about. He's so self aware. Like, he will communicate to another kid, like, yeah, I don't want to play with you. You know, like, or you're too. You're too rough or in. She. He's like, and he's so sweet and Nice about it. But then he's also so assert assure of himself and oh man, just melt me inside. And I know, like, my heart breaks for when you hear the stories of these kids that, that the parents have that hard time with or I have a friend who the. They, they got their report from their, from their teacher and they said like, yeah, sometimes she sits all by herself and nobody.

Oh God, oh God.

And I thought, and I told Katrina, I'm like, I don't know what I would do if they report it back to me that my kid is sitting at recess lonely. Like, I don't. I think I would be, I would want to pull him out. I almost feel like I'm like.

And I don't even know if that's.

The right thing to do. I'm like, if I heard that nobody wanted to play with my kid and he was all by himself and to think that I'm putting him in there for six hours a day or whatever and he's sitting alone, like, man, I would, I don't know what I would do. I feel like I would figure a way to homeschool if I had to, to hear something like that.

The other night I was praying with my 3 year old before bed, bed. And she's so cute. She puts her hands together and clinches her, clinches her little face and does this thing. And as I'm praying and I'm almost done, and she goes, and thank you for my brother and my papa. Amen. And I'm like, oh, thank you. So cute. I love it.

Yeah, it's a trip. I mean, I mean, I was definitely not the guy who thought I was going to be, you know, kids and that thing. I mean, I knew at one point I probably would, but to see the, all the things that change about you as an individual. This is why I think everybody who has them, when you don't tell you, oh, you'll see. You'll see. You can't describe it. You can't explain it.

We were talking about this yesterday how. We were talking about how some people just have this incredible tolerance for chaos and sacrificing their own needs. And these people have all these kids and it's like, how do they do this? We know people, friends of ours were like seven children. Yeah, they raised seven kids themselves, but now they're older and the kids are always over with their kids and they have this full.

I gotta think that that's.

And I'm like, that's such a wonderful payback I got.

I say, I gotta Believe that that's the ultimate delay gratification of parenting. Because there's nothing about parenting that's easy. Right? It's hard. It's hard. It's a lot of work.

It's very sacrificial.

That's what makes it rewarding is that. And part of that, that rewarding process is the outcome is like, I get it now. It's. It's those mo. Like that. All those stuff that led up to, to putting the work into Max, to being the kid he is. To hear that from a teacher is. That's what, that's it. That, like that amount, that feeling that I got is so powerful that I can draw back on it and it makes me emotional on how much it. And I imagine it'll still be that way a year, two years from now, which that makes all the stuff before worth it. And so, so I can only imagine having seven and going through so much and then to get them to come back and to be all, yeah, I'll.

Talk to these people, like, how did you do it? Like, how do you go? How did you handle that? Like, well, it's chaos and you just, just do it, you know, but it's so wonderful.

I feel like it's just. It's not.

But that's a lot.

We grew up in a. The 80s and 90s and even today is, it's an interesting time, I think with like fatherhood. I don't think it's. I don't think it's celebrated or shared.

It used to be a sense of pride.

It should be.

Men would talk to each other, how many children do you have? It was like a sense of pride. Like you could support that many kids, you could father that many children. And somehow society has convinced us that it's this, oh, you have four kids, you got no life. Oh, you must not be able to. Boy, life must be tough for you. You know, type of deal, which is. It's kind of wild. It's wild how it's so, it's been sold that way.

It's so wrong because all of the other things, and admittedly that in my 20s that I think I changed, chased after are so short term and unfulfilling even. I mean I've done a lot of cool. Yeah. And, and, and in the moment, those things, I still will go, oh, that was a blast. Or that was fun. But nothing in comparison to a moment like yesterday like that there's. It pales in comparison. And so yet we, we. Everything in the movies, everything we talk about a Lot of the stuff that we drive to, the people that we follow and admire are, you know, are, are always talking, sharing or showing off all the, all these materialistic things that we, we, we tend to celebrate so much when it's like, oh man, if you only knew. The, the fatherhood thing is a million times, a million times better than the coolest thing that you could think about.

Now when I meet another dad and I hear that they have kids and I, if, especially if I see them being involved with their children, like, immediate respect. I don't care about anything else. Like, immediately I'm like, respect.

Well, it's fun to see, especially with like a group of friends where, you know, they've been single for so long and all of a sudden they're having a kid and then they have a kid. And it's like just to watch the transformation not just of them having a kid, but their own personal, their depth, their growth through that whole process. They change. And it's like usually and pretty much always for the better. And it's just like, you just see that, that experience and, and then, yeah, you reflect on what it's done to you as, as an individual. You've changed and you know your place in this world.

What do you guys think? What do you guys think? Is it a. The, the parents that it doesn't do that too? Obviously we're like, there's obviously shitty parents. Yeah, right. There's obviously that situation. So if, if it was so impactful for all of us, for all of you. Right. And, and you know what, that feeling like it was. I think what, what, what is missing.

For the person besides the extreme.

Who doesn't speak that way?

Yeah, besides the extreme stuff like drug abuse and, you know, severe trauma. I think, think it's having a tough time accepting that it's not about you because having kids is not about you. You sacrifice. And sacrifice is a word. If I use sacrifice, people think it means you're trading something better for something worse. Like, oh, you got to sacrifice. No, it's a worthwhile sacrifice, but you.

Have to accept it's a trade and it's a way better trade.

Yeah, you accept, like you have children now. It's not about.

They're resisting the change. They're trying to maintain this self identity that they had going into it.

Yeah. And you think that has more to do with the individual or maturity or both? What do you think?

I think it's mature individual. I think it has to do with family. That helps. And I think it has to do with how society has painted it. Because when you have encouragement from the people around you and society, I think that would help because I do.

I do question this. Had I not live my 20s and 30s to what I thought was the fullest and doing all those things, I wouldn't be able to draw back on that comparison. And so is it maybe you.

You.

You stepped into fatherhood sooner before you had that, and maybe there's not enough people telling you that.

I don't know. I think you're pointing to God's grace, Adam, because I think if you had a child early, you would have been a great dad, too. I don't think you would be as wise or have as much money, but it would have been just as transformational.

Just like anything else, you would have.

Been just as transformational. You would have loved your kid just as much. So this whole myth of, like, you got to be ready and there's an element of truth to that, don't get me wrong, but. Except that it's a. It's going to be a long season of. It's not about you. And so you can't do the stuff that you did before, but it's worth it.

Yeah, but do you. I mean, to Justin's point, like, do you think that. Let's not use me as an example, because I agree with you. I think this, what I not having. My dad probably laid the roadmap for how I was going to be a dad probably early on. Right. But if you. If I didn't have a lot of experience or somebody else like me, me didn't have a lot of those experience before, could. Would they wrestle a lot with the. Oh, man. But to get to do the Vegas trip. And I always want to. And I'm not going to do that. Oh, my. My boys are all flying doing this, and they're constantly wrestling with that. I'm missing, you know, FOMO of my young buddies that aren't married that are all doing those things. And I'm married with kids and I'm.

I'm missing out again. I think it's a perspective. I really do. And I think if we had more societal support, community around. Yeah. Like. Like if you're a dude in your mid-30s and your buddies are going out to Vegas and you're at home with. And you got, you know, two or three kids, I think it would speak volumes if society was like, dude, your buddies need to grow up and good for you.

Right. They're missing out on what you get.

Versus media is constantly telling you you're missing out. You don't get to hang out with all these chicks. You don't get to go look at all your money is tied up in these kids and oh my God, it's so hard. And then you're at home and you're thinking like, yeah, that's true. Like this all sucks because you're just thinking about it.

That's what I think it is. I think it is. And I do. I mean not to bl Society we're all, you know, we're all responsible for.

Individuals are what create.

But, but you know, you're, you know, you're right.

Messaging and the marketing.

Yeah. Because I think, I think that would for sure help me having people I, I trust, value, look up to if I was in that situation, let's say. And I didn't get to do a lot of those things. And I'm going, oh man. And they're going pro. You have it. Yeah, you have, you have what they don't have.

Right. I think like let me give you a couple examples. Right. Women are constantly told that their beauty is their most valuable thing. So for a woman it's like, I'm going to sacrifice my looks. Well, news flash, it's going to happen anyway. You're going to get old anyway. So that's a myth and it's a wonderful sacrifice especially if you pour yourself into your children, you grow your family. For men, we're told make a lot of money, not so you can support a lot of kids. No, make a lot of money so you can go buy a lot of things.

Yeah.

And go have all this fun self indulgence dude stuff. The reality is like yeah, you should go and pursue to you know, building a career and so you can support a large family so you can take care of your family. That's what I mean by the twisting that's happened in the world to the point where modern societies, the more wealthy they get, the less kids people have.

And unhappy and less happy.

I know there's your evidence.

I mean that's the, that's the misconduct. I wonder if we will unravel that or the, the pendulum.

It's starting to flip.

You think so?

Yeah, it's starting to flip a little bit. The beliefs that people have are starting to change. Gen Z is actually starting to change some of these like these trends that were going in that direction. So I have hope by the way, having less and less kids, it will collapse society also. That's actually a crisis. I know. Paleo Valley bone broth protein is the best tasting protein powder you've ever had in your entire life. It's minimally processed chocolate. Tastes like chocolate donuts. I'm not making this up. Super easy to digest. Almost nobody has an issue digesting bone broth protein. In fact, it's advocated for gut health. So this is a protein powder you can take and not get gas with. Go try it out. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump that link will get you 15% off. Back to the show.

Our first caller is Lorena from Canada.

Hi Lorena, how you doing Lorena?

Hi, how are you guys?

We're good.

How are you? Good, good.

Thanks for having me. I'm just going to read my email. I am a 42 year old mom has been lifting weights for about 6 years. My fitness journey started with Orange Theory where I stayed consistently for five years. While I enjoy the classes, I eventually started to feel bored and frustrated that I wasn't seeing any real changes in my body. About a year ago I decided to step away from group classes and instead focusing on training on my own in a regular job the gym. Since then I've definitely seen some progress and feel stronger overall. But I also find myself a little lost when it comes to how I should be progressing. For example, I'm not always sure when I should increase the weight on an exercise and I've noticed that while my lower body is getting stronger, my upper body has stayed stuck with very little progress. This has left me wondering if I'm approaching progressive overload. Correction. I also purchased Muscle Mommy about three months ago and I really love it, but I get confused with the rep and weight changes, especially when the program shifts from higher reps to lower reps. Should I be keeping the same weight across the different rep ranges or should I be increasing? Since I last rode, I restarted the program and I've seen significantly strength gains. For example, my squat has increased from 105 to 170. My deadlift has gone from 165 to 225.

Wow.

I'm now starting phase two which calls for 15 repetitions. Phase one required 12 repetitions which I was able to achieve by the end of it. My confusion lies with phase two. Should I decrease the weight to successfully complete 15 repetitions or should I maintain my current weight and work towards hitting 50 rep reps?

Good question.

Very common.

More? Is there more?

Yes. With my upper body is so much different and I'm not able to increase the weight every week. Is this normal? Is there something I should be doing Differently.

Okay, good. Okay, so the last part. Yes. It's normal to not progress every single week. That's. That's impossible.

It's not linear.

Yeah. So you'll see progress. You'll. When you first get started, oftentimes the progress is very consistent. It's like, man, every time I work out, I seem to be able to add weight to the bar. That starts to slow down as you continue to progress. And then eventually later on, you know, you're doing this for a few years consistently. It could be like, I gain, you know, some strength, you know, every year, you know, my squat went up 10 pounds or 15 pounds or 20 pounds this year. Whereas in the beginning, it may be 10, 15 pounds in a month. So that can definitely change. Now to back up, I'll go. I'll go in reverse of what you asked. When the rep range goes up or down, you adjust the weight. So you want to pick a weight that allows you to perform the target rep range with good intensity. Okay. So if you're squatting 170 pounds for 12 reps, now it says 15 reps, you're probably gonna have to drop down to like 150, 155, or something like that. And then pick a weight that allows you to do that rep range again, again with good intensity. And then when it comes to getting stronger, generally speaking, there's three reasons why somebody won't get stronger. Diet programming, and then your genetic potential. So we'll start with genetic potential. You can't get stronger forever. Like, if that was possible, you know, Justin, Adam, and myself would be bench pressing £300 or, sorry, £3,000 by this point.

Point.

Yeah, I know.

I've done 300.

We got that covered.

Programming's the other one. If you follow good programming, then great. If you're not, then you could. You could have a great dino stuff, and it's just not going to work. You're following Muscle Mommy, so I know you're probably following good programming. And then the other one's diet. If you're not eating enough to fuel strength and muscle, then you won't get stronger, regardless of how great everything is. So those are the three places to look. But if you're. If you're seeing yourself get stronger relatively consistently, like over the last time you did Muscle Mommy versus this time, you're doing great.

Yeah, it sounds like you're doing really good.

Yeah, it was really good to see. I was like, okay, I'm gonna buy a different program. But then I wasn't sure which one to Buy. So I was like, okay, maybe I'll just do it again and see how much I've purchased. Progress. And, yeah, it's. It's been. It's been great. But, yeah, definitely my upper body is like, where I lack the strength and. Yeah. And I don't know if bumping up my calories is a good idea for that or is it just usually something that you're not going to see as much progress as your lower body.

As a woman, you won't. You'll typically see strength gains in the lower body lifts much faster than the upper body lifts. That being said, have you progressed? So from the last time you did muscle Mommy to now, have you seen a change in your bench press, your row, your overhead press a little bit?

Not so much.

How much?

I will say maybe my reps are a bit higher, but certainly the weight is not.

So how much higher are the reps? Five, Three.

I would say about three.

Okay. You're stronger.

It's still moving forward.

Where are your calories? Calories?

I think so. I don't really track very well. The only thing that I'm tracking right now is protein. I'm certainly between 130 and 150.

Oh, good.

Per day, I would say maybe my calories around maybe. I'm gonna say like 2, 20, 200.

Okay.

I think you're doing good.

I think you're doing good.

I think you're really good.

There's a lot of opportunity still there. From what it sounds like, you're doing orange theory for quite a long time, and now you sweep switched, you know, to actually having rest periods of focusing on strength. I think the potential is still, you know, quite a bit of potential there left.

Yeah. Also, you want to look at the whole picture. So, okay, I went up three. Let's say I went up three reps in my overhead press, but I went up 30 pounds in my deadlift, in my squat. Am I eating enough to fuel strength gains? Yeah, you are. Yeah, you're doing great. Yeah, so. So. And that's not uncommon with women. You know, getting women to progress with upper body after a year or two really slows down lower body. We typically have a lot more Runway.

I mean, if you really want to dive into it, I would suggest powerlift would be a good option for you to. To really figure that out, like, where your potential lies and your capacity for strength and then, you know, kind of come back from there. But, like, if you really pursued it, you. You would see, you know, how that then translates to. To, you know, A lot of these higher up type of workouts.

I'd love to see you in our Muscle Mommy group too. Did you. Are, are you aware that we started that? Have you seen that?

No.

Oh, yes. I'll have Doug send you a link to that. Which is incredible. Which is nothing but women trying to get strong in there. And a lot of them are reverse dieting. And there's a lot of strategies. Every week there's a coaching call. Wednesday we got Dr. Gabriel Lyon coming in, talking about women's hormones, Bones. So just to. Yeah, and then as you're going through that, it already has Muscle Mommy included in. It also has Muscle Mommy 15 in there. And then as you go through the programming, we'll just keep you going on new programs. So when it's. When you run through that program, we'll set you up with the next one. So great. You'll great community in there. You'll love it.

All right. No, that'll be great. I have one more question.

Yep, sure.

So. So since leaving Orange Theory, I've caught back in my cardio by a lot. And I'll sometimes add in like a hiit workout about twice a week. Do you guys recommend that? Like, do you think hiit cardio is better than hiit with weights? Or like, what's the recommendation?

Okay, so what's your goal out of this? More stamina?

Yeah.

And I guess, I don't know, I feel a little. Feel fluffy after not doing so much cardio.

So a better strategy would do lean. Continue to lean in the. Building the strength and not worry about the hit cardio right now. And then after we build your calories up, say 24, 2500 calories, then go into a cut, then introduce hit that if you. For fat loss. If we were trying to use hit cardio as a strategy for fat loss, you'd be better served to just keep focusing on strength right now and build. Build and maybe even bump your calories, a couple hundred calories and keep going that direction for a little while and then go, okay, maybe after a month. And by the way, in the group, we can talk about all this stuff more specific to you as we track you week by week. And then we'll go, okay, great, we've got our calories up to 2500. Now let's start to cut down to 2100 calories. Do that for a couple weeks. Your. Your results slow down. Then we introduce hiit cardio. Then they start to keep going. So that's how I would use hiit cardio. If you're trying to use it for fat loss.

If it's for stamina, then I think hit cardio days a week is great, and that'll give you the endurance.

Okay, no, that sounds great. And then. So what you're saying is, like, power lift would be a good program, I.

Think, if you want to get. If you want to get strong. Absolutely.

How far? You're in phase two right now of Muscle Mommy again, where you just.

I just started phase two. Yes.

So finished. Go through that all the way. We'll have Doug send power lift to you. So you have. Have that.

But.

But follow, follow Muscle Mommy. Follow, follow the. That through the rest and then get inside the group, and then we'll take you through Power lift.

Yep.

And it's power lift, like three or four days a week or how does that work?

I think it's. I want to say four or five.

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, it's about five.

I believe it's five days a week. It's powerlifting. Focus. So the. The main goal is stronger at bench, deadlift and squat.

Yeah.

Okay. Perfect.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

All right, we'll see you in there. All right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's good. Good question. Yeah, that's typical for a woman. You'll see the lower body continue to progress, upper body start to slow down. But if you're progressing or progressing, and like I said earlier, the three things are genetic potential, which takes a while. So that's typically not it. Unless you've been doing this for a long time and you're hitting some great numbers or whatever. Dr. Diet and in programming, those are the main area. Other things can, you know, play a.

Role, like wrestling recovery with the program.

What is this? What is the science on the. Because women have this, like, the same potential in the lower body, but they have like one third the potential. And I forget what. What it was that was it. Is it muscle fiber density? Is it the type of muscle fibers? Or why is it that women. Because you. I had female clients that could squat, leg press a lot of my men. So the potential for your lower body for women is. Is, I believe, as equal as far as the percentage that they can close anyway as men. But then upper body, I believe, is one third the potential.

Yeah, so. So men still have a higher potential for lower body, but the. They're closer to the male potential with the lower body and the upper body. And it has to do with muscle, like you said, muscle fiber type, central nervous system, output structure, bone density, hormone. I mean, it's There's a lot of factors that play a role in that, but, yeah, if you look at, like, overall potential as a percentage of body weight for lower body, men are still much stronger.

Yeah.

But women are closer in that than they are.

Yeah. I thought it was almost, almost equal for the lower body, but I know that what I've read, when it's upper body, it's like one third of the potential. Yeah.

Our next color is Brian from California.

What's up, man?

How you doing, Brian?

What's up, you guys? Thanks a lot for having me on.

You got it, dude. How cool we help you.

Well, first of all, I just want to thank you guys for everything you do. I've been a listener about five years, and back in 2020, you guys helped me put on about 20 pounds of lean mass, so.

Wow.

Yeah. And I've been able to maintain and even get a little more sense in. So anybody listening? Like, these guys are the real deal. No gimmicks.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you. How can we help you, dude? Boom.

So, like I said, I've been listening a long time, and a lot of the things you guys talk about to maximize your workouts, I'm pretty good at tracking them. Um, and I can usually tell how my workout's gonna feel based on sleep, what I've eaten, recovery days, programming my hydration, salt levels. Like, all those things I, I, I keep pretty good track of. And about 80% of the time, the math is mathing. Like, when I do everything right, workouts feel good, I feel connected, I feel pumped, everything like that. But then it's that 20% of the time I can't figure out. There's like, sometimes I go in and I feel like, wow. Okay. I'm coming off a couple rest days. I've eaten well, I'm hydrated. Like, my workout's gonna feel good. And then it's just trash. Like, it joints hurt. Like, it takes a bunch of sets to even feel warmed up. And then I've also had times where I'm literally off, like, two hours sleep, thinking it's gonna feel like garbage. And I go in and just feel amazing. And I'm hitting, like, a pr. It makes no sense to me. So I don't know if you guys could, like, shed some light on that. I don't know if the no sleep thing is maybe that temporary spike in cortisol that you guys talk about sometimes.

Yeah, that's what that is.

Yeah.

So. So, okay, you sou someone who kind of has a good idea of all the different factors that we tend to track. Diet, sleep, programming, you know, sounds to me like you have a decent handle on those things. Is that correct? Does that feel that way?

Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it.

I wouldn't worry about the rest. So here. The rest of it. So here's the thing that you don't want. You don't want to fall into this trap. You don't want to fall into the trap of worshiping the feeling of the workout. Now, I know we communicate often that it's a good thing to feel the workout, to pay attention to how it feels. And it is. But if you start to fall in love with that, the workout always has to feel like a great workout. It's going to drive you in the wrong direction because unfortunately there are times you just. It just doesn't make sense.

You're beyond that sometimes.

Yeah, you're beyond that. You, you've. You've really figured this out, bro. I mean, the fact that you're adjusting things based off of how you're feeling, you're eating, you're doing all the right things that you. And you're tracking the stuff that really makes matters. Life is weird. Like working out is weird. Like that. I, we all experience the exact same thing. There's just times when this doesn't add up. I shouldn't feel this strong yet. I am that strong, you know, And I can't, I can't break down the science of why that day I did. You know, it's. It's hard to pinpoint. And then you can get paralysis by analysis, by trying to over focus on those things. I mean. Yeah, that makes sense if you've put 20 pounds of muscle on and you're still continuing to put some muscle on, even if it's incremental channel. Now you're, you're doing it, bro. I mean, you're doing. Yeah, you're doing. You're doing a hell of a job. I mean, the one thing I'd ask you is like, as you rotate through our programs, like, do you. Do you do good. Good job of making sure that at least one time a year you get either symmetry or performance in there or do you tend to focus just on one or two programs? We do. Like, what do you do right now with your program cycle?

Like, every. Everything I do pretty much is based off like anabolic, like, all. And I like going six days a week. So I just do upper lower days. And then every three to five weeks, I'm switching up my rep rang.

Okay.

And then I'll play around a little bit with different tempos and things like that. Like to. To connect better. I'll sometimes like work in a shorter range of motion and then like expand it out. Kind of just everything to create the novelty but not do it too often.

Yeah. Yeah.

Do you do a lot of activity outside the gym or. Because, Because I. I play a lot of golf.

So like probably three, four times a week, I'm walking, carrying my bag. Bag and you know. But nothing. Nothing crazy. I just kind of stay fairly active.

Symmetry.

Yeah. You might want to move out of. Out of the maps. Anabolic programming if you've been doing it for a long time, because you can start to cause some imbalances and start to get joint issues because there's not much. There's nothing really in there laterally. There's no rotation.

Those two are big.

Yeah. I think symmetry would be good. Performance would be good as an interrupter and that might give you what you're looking for.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do either one of those sound more appealing to you? Because whichever one you want, we'll send to you. I mean, I. I think you definitely should follow one of those. And I think you can go back.

To Anabolic and see how you feel.

Just once a year. I always recommend, especially some where you're at. Right. You've figured you've. You've got the big rocks. The next big rock is probably really making your programming make a lot of sense. Every. And getting one round of symmetry or one round of performance every year, year in your programming cycle is a smart strategy, no matter who you are and what your goals are. And so, you know, if one of those sounds more appealing to you, we'll send it to you. But that's. At least one of those should go in your program. To interrupt a anabolic style of programming just because it's all bilateral, no rotational stuff, very, you know, very. There's no unilateral work inside of Anabolic. So that type of stuff, it will serve you well. Especially since you're a go golfer.

Yeah. I mean, symmetry sounds pretty awesome.

Okay, we'll send it to you.

Yeah, Yeah.

I appreciate that.

Thank you, guys.

Maybe some of the imbalances and stuff, especially as a golfer. Always swinging.

Yeah, yeah.

One way, you know, 100.

Yeah. Keep in mind, if you do, if you're consistent with all the stuff you know to be right, what'll happen is you'll get more of those good workouts and less of those quote unquote, bad workouts. But nothing guarantees a good workout. Every, every time there's some mystery involved.

Sometimes, sometimes those workers are just literally just for the mental. Like.

That's right.

You just get through it and you're like, that's right. You got it in. Even though it didn't feel like the best.

No.

100%. So you're on point, dude. You're doing good.

Yeah. Symmetry.

Yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll send that, we'll send that over to you, brother.

Thank you.

Awesome.

You guys are best. Thank you, man.

Appreciate you.

Yep.

It's, you know, it's funny is I. The, the, the first time I hit 600 pound deadlift, which was a priority for me was two, one or two days after I finally got divorced. Moved out of my house.

Yeah.

And I go to work out and I pull a PR that was all stress hormone stress. That was all of that. Yeah. Because I had poor sleep. I'm obviously stressed out and I go and just grab the weight and just.

Ah.

Yeah. And that was fueled by stress, dude.

Not ideal to repeat that.

Oh no.

Our bodies also don't work on this perfect 24 hour clock all the time. But we, we think of it like that we go, oh, yesterday I did all these things and so then today I should feel amazing. And then you don't. But it's really like, well, it's not really. Maybe it's been the last four or five days of things combined is what gave you the average of that workout. And or maybe there was something two days ago that was really impactful that now impact. So it doesn't always work in this like perfect 24 hour clock. And so if you're always like analyzing like, well, what did I do? Because this wasn't good workout and I thought I did all the right things.

More often than not. It'll help. Yeah, it'll work.

Yeah.

But not always.

And I think early on, like he's early before you, he's at a really good level where he's, he's. If you put 20 pounds of muscle on, you're doing a lot, you're doing a lot of. Right. A lot of all the major stuff and, and you want to be careful not to overanalyze everything because you may be doing something really great and you just. Because you didn't have a great workout and you thought you did all right things, you move something or change something.

Right.

That was perfect. And ends up being worse.

Our next caller is Marnie from Maryland.

Hi Marnie, how you doing? Hello.

Hello.

Hey guys, how are you?

Good.

How can I Help you.

Good. First, thanks for taking my call and as usual, love the show and really appreciate your content. So thanks for everything that you're doing. I'll dive right in. So I am 54. Been working out pretty much my whole life, but really been lifting for about 15 years consistently. So I'm lifting probably about five or six days a week. I used to be a big cardio bunny. I ran a bunch of marathons. I have slowly over the past, I would say three to four years, let go of a lot of the cardio. And in fact, I would say about a year ago, I made a conscious effort just to be more active in my daily life. I sit at a desk all day and so just try to get more steps in and switch that out for the cardio. So now I'm just doing cardio two days a week. All that to be said. Also, the same time that I really made a conscious effort to lessen the cardio, I was in the full throes of perimenopause and was seeing a lot of weight distribution. Not a lot, but, but like some weight distribution moving to like my middle area. And I just felt kind of out of sync and out of whack. I wasn't sure if it was because I'd been doing cardio for so long and then I really curbed that or if it was the hormones. I have since gone on hrt. I've been trying to eat less carbs and I feel like I'm in a better place. And just as a gut check so that I would stop relying on the scale so much, I went and I got a Dexa SC to get my body comp. And I just got that back last week and that was in good, a good place. I'm at 16% for body fat. So I feel really good about that. I just feel like I'm kind of in a plateau. I'm not really seeing the gains that I want to, particularly in my glutes and like, sort of my lower half. So I wanted to just get a check in with you guys, see what you would do from a nutrition standpoint and see if you had any programming ideas.

Yeah, I feel like, you know what.

We'Re going to say? What do you think we're going to say?

You're going to say I'm not eating enough?

Yep.

Wait, why would we say that? What makes you say that? So, Marnie, how long? Because when you wrote in, it said you had wrote that your body fat was 11 to 13% and did it go up or was that a guess?

Oh, so I think I wrote in twice, actually. And so that first number was probably the. The machine at the gym that does your body fat.

Yeah.

Okay. In Body vs.

The Dexa, which was 16, I was actually surprised because I. I've tracked my body fat through cal. Calipers and through calipers and. And through, like, the. The machine at the gym for. For years. You know, I do it a couple times a year, and it's always been around 13. 12, 13. And then when I went and I got the Dexa, it came back at 16. So I'm not sure if that's just a normal variation between the machines.

It is. Yeah, it is. It doesn't matter either. So for a few years or for how many years have you walked around. Around that 13%? Ish.

I mean, I've had three kids, and I will say my body fat has probably always been between. 12 is probably my lowest, but I was never really more than like, 16.

Okay.

Percent. Yeah. For a long time.

You ever get your bone density tested?

I just got it done with. With this DEXA scan, and it was right in the middle. It was at 50%.

Okay, good. So, Marnie, you got it. You have to. You ready to hear what I'm going to say?

Yeah, I need. I need to hear it because I know what you're going to say, and I just. I need to hear it, and I need to get. I need to get over it. And I would love any. Any tips that you can give me on how to get over it. Like, I've been really trying to have a protein shake at night before bed, and it kills me. It kills me to do it, but I feel like it's the right thing to do. Just trying to get there before Sal.

Goes, because I know he's going to have a bunch of great advice for you. I'm so glad that we got you today because literally tomorrow Dr. Gabriel Lyon is coming in speaking about woman's hormones in our muscle mommy group. And so she's.

Yes, she's my idol. She's amazing, you guys. She is the only other podcast that I listen to.

Muscle mommymovement.com.

Thanks, Doug.

Yeah, so muscle mommymovement.com I want you to get into the muscle mommy group. She talks tomorrow. We'll be in there. And after Sal gives you all the advice, I just want to tell you that we're going to hold your hand through the process in there, so we're going to help you through it.

So here's how we can help. Okay. Because I think you know what we're going to say the challenge is doing. Sounds like you have a relationship with this that is very challenging, which I personally understand. And the best thing you could do is to give it to someone else. So the best thing you could do is not rely on yourself, because you know what that's going to look like. You've been doing that for a long time, so you have to give it to someone else and say, I'm just going to do what you tell me for a while until I could break free from this very challenging relationship. Relationship. But what you need to do, Marnie, is you ready? You need to gain body fat. I'm not even gonna tell you to gain muscle. You need to gain body fat. And that'll change your life. It will change everything. Because you're tiptoeing around essential body fat for a woman for a long time, that has profoundly negative effects on energy, health, hormones, everything.

So that's interesting because. Because I've. I was able to conceive, like, three healthy kids. And so in my mind I was like, oh, I'm fine. Like, I never lost my menstruation and I never. And I'm. So you're saying that there's other things that are markers that I might not be able to see?

There's going to be. Yes. And it's not just that. So your, your body's obviously very resilient.

Right.

You probably have very athletic, athletic genetics. So you probably have kind of mesomorph genetics where you can tolerate pushing the limit much more than other women. Most women would lose their period, you know, kind of doing what you did. So you have a very resilient body. But what will happen if you gain body fat? If I get you up to 19, 20 body fat, you're going to feel strong, you're going to have a lot of energy, you're going to feel very different, and you're not going to look bad. You're going to look great. I can see you've got good muscle.

You're going to. You're going to build that asset you're chasing right now.

That's.

That's going to. That's going to happen. You go up to 19%.

That's right.

So it's. And you will feel better. And just because you feel okay right now and you've been able to do those things doesn't mean we're. We're optimal. And optimal will be higher than where you're currently at right now. But I I do. I mean, I've trained so many clients like this, and I know how difficult it is. It's. It's not the not knowing. I feel like you already knew what you were supposed to do. It's literally doing that. I think Sal's 100. Right. Like, this is one of those things where you outsource this, where it's just like, you know what? I'm going to trust my coach. I'm going to trust the process. I'm going to do a thing. Which, again, I think it's so serendipitous that you called in today. We have Dr. Gabriel Lyon speaking, literally tomorrow about women's hormones to our woman's group, to all these women that are trying to reverse diet. At least 80% of the women in there are reverse dieting, and that's what you need to do right now. So outsource this. Perfect time timing, get in there, let us help you through this process. And just watch what you feel like.

There's nothing wrong with, especially for somebody like you, who seems to have a very resilient body. There's nothing wrong with dipping into the 15, 14% here and there. But to live in that percentage for as long as you have is not. Is not good. You want to probably live, and I'll guess for someone like you with kind of how your body responds, you could probably live in the 18, 19, 20% range and be great.

Yeah.

And be strong and feel good, and then every once in a while, dip back down. But I wouldn't, even if you were my client, I wouldn't let you dip back down for a couple years. I would say, no, we're going to stay here for two years so that you can get kind of comfortable with what this feels like. Because what can also happen, Marnie, is you can be like, fine, I'll listen to you. I'll go up to 19%. As soon as I do, I'm going right back down, which is not going to help us.

Yeah.

And this will serve you so well, especially now that you're in your. You're in your early 50s, 60s, 70s. If you look at the data on longevity being. Having really low body fat and low body weight, even if you're fit and athletic, is actually a health risk for women. That's why I asked you about your bone density. In fact, I would recommend that you get a bone density test from your doctor, not a DEXA scan like a legit one, just to make sure. Again, because you seem to have those MESA Genetics, you're Probably. Okay, but I would just double check that. But I wouldn't weigh you, like, no more scale. No more. Don't study yourself in the mirror. Just listen to someone else and maybe pay attention to how strong your strength's gonna go through the roof. You're gonna, your strength is gonna explode on all your lifts. You're gonna have, like I said, a lot of energy. But just give it to someone else and just say, just let go of it for a little while and see what happens.

Ready?

All right. All right, we'll send you that link.

We're gonna see you in there.

Get in there.

One quick question. Aside from the show with Dr. Lyon, you guys will send me a program or a nutrition. I signed up for a nutrition program. How do I know how to get my butt?

Here's what we'll do. We'll send you the link and I'll also have a coach call you because you might be better suited for one on one online coaching where it's just you and them because muscle mommy's group coach coaching. You might be better suited to just one on one. So I'll, I'll make sure somebody gives you a call today as well.

At the very least, get in that, get inside that group. Just because I think it's a perfect timing with Gabriel on it. And then like Sal saying, we'll have one of our girls call you and.

See and then they can get much more. It's just more individualized for you.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you so much for Marnie.

I can see the fear.

I think I knew and needed to hear from a third party and I.

Could see the fear that you could got. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. I promise you. And you're really courageous. I know what this feels like. So I appreciate you calling us.

We got you. We got you. Okay.

All right. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

All right, bye.

I've. I've had female clients where it's like, what's my goal? Gain more muscle? No, we're going to gain body fat. Yeah, we have to gain body fat. That's what has to happen. She's been walking around.

She'll feel so.

She's shredded, dude.

And just.

You see both bicep veins. She's like stage ready right now.

Always walking around.

Stage ready.

Always. The fact that she was able to conceive.

Yeah, that's impressive.

She's got a. She's got those genetics which, which only means we gain body fat. She's going to be like, well, she's going to blow her mind.

I'm glad you said that. Strong. I'm glad you said that. Just. Okay, so the audience knows most of the time when someone's down in the 18, 19% body fat is female, we tell them to gain body fat and they need to be up in the low 20s. She's probably somebody who can carry herself around 18, 19, actually be really.

She was able to conceive at 11, 12, 13%.

She'll be able to be a lower defined. Yeah. Oh, she'll still be. I'm telling you right now, what'll happen.

Is she'll like the way she looks.

She will. Because she's gonna. She's gonna. She's gonna. And if she does it or reverse diet correctly, good programming behind it, she will build a body that she's more excited about and she'll be in a healthier place. So, I mean, so long as she, I think, lets it go, I think then why. I think it's so such good advice that it's like, outsource this. Just you have to trust the process from somebody that you trust knows what they're doing. Allow us to take you there and appreciate. I think she'll be so happy. At 18, 19% body fat.

Our next caller is Derek from Florida.

Hey, Derek.

What's going on, Derek? What up, Derek? How we doing?

Hey, guys. How you been?

Good, man. How you been?

Let's hear this update. I'm curious.

You look different, dude.

Yeah, I got real, real fat. I gained a lot of.

No, bro, I see the guns, dude.

Get out of here.

What's going on? How can we help you?

So it's been about four and a half, five months since you guys gave me some advice before for stop burning myself out, stop doing too much up my calories. All good things. You guys gave me maps. Anabolic. I went through that. I didn't really know where to go from there. So I ran it back on Anabolic Advanced, and I'm in the middle of that now. I got about three or four weeks left. I think I'm heading into the last phase now.

Okay.

I started TRT treatment. I kind of felt like enclomiphene wasn't really doing it for. For me. Started that back in July. So I'm at about 12 weeks now of treatment. And like I mentioned before, I took Adam's advice and reverse dieted myself up to 3200 calories per day. As a reminder, I'm 6:2, so a little bit bigger of a guy. My results I My weight did increase. I went from like 235, 240 up to about 250. 250. My, my handheld body cat body fat calculator is showing that I've lost about 2% body body fat. But I'm still over 20 so you know, not really where I want to be yet. I'm sure my TRT had gave me some water retention, things like that to cause some of that weight gain. I have received compliments on, you know, as you mentioned, the guns and some body changes but I, I feel I have a long way to go. So here's my question. I've wanted to try to lose some of the excess fat. You know, I still carry a lot around my weight waist. My arms, my legs, my chest are all great, feeling pretty solid. But you know, it's been a fighting battle on my waist since my early 30s. It kind of makes me look more dad bod and not so much fit. I don't want to lose what I've built, but I also don't want to keep gaining a ton of weight. My goal isn't to be ridiculously ripped, but I'd like to be maybe like 15, 16 body fat at the end of the day and more at a healthy weight. Should I, should I do another one of your programs outside of anabolic? Should I, should I run that back and in doing that, should I start cutting back my calories now considering maybe I just. The weight gain scares me, let's put it that way. So leave it at that. And I'd love to hear your guys feedback.

You're ready for a cut?

Yeah, easy. I want, not dramatic and I want you to toggle back and forth between mini cut, mini bulk so it looks like a 2,500 calorie down to 2500 calories for like, like say two, three weeks and then give yourself a surplus or at least back up to maintenance for a week and then go back to three weeks in a cut and then do, and just keep toggling.

So go three one. That's good.

So three weeks in the cut at 2500 calories and then go back to maintenance 3200 for one week and then go back and just keep toggling like.

That and you're gonna get, you're gonna go nice and consistent down in body fat and you, you probably won't lose muscle and feel pretty strong. Strong programming you could do. Symmetry I think would be a good follow up program now that you've done an anabolic and anabolic advanced I'LL send that to you. You're doing great, dude.

Yeah, you're doing real good. Yeah, you are. You're in, you're in a good place too right now because I think before your calories were quite a bit lower for, especially for your activity and size. So now that you're up to a healthier place, you're still not hot. I would not consider these high calories for a guy your size. Like, that's still on the lower end, but at least healthy. Good range enough that we can play with cutting a bit little. A little bit. So. But I wouldn't cut you dramatically because you're. The fact you're on TRT most as long as you stay consistent with your training. And those are good whole food, good calories, good protein. Most of that is going to get partitioned to building muscle. And so we, we just want to cut a little bit and that'll help lean out, you know, for a couple weeks and then put you back to surplus. That'll hopefully keep you keep the muscle or even build a little bit of muscle and that you're just kind of toggling back and forth, shaving down.

Yeah, you'll drop, you'll probably drop 5% body fat in maybe four months, five months over that process or less. Or less. But I'm giving you kind of a long range. So it's going to feel like a nice, consistent workouts feel good. Especially when I go up to maintenance for that week. I'm feeling stronger and just nice consistent, getting leaner process.

And I want you to. The only thing I want you really to measure right now is just use your waist circumference around your waist.

Yeah.

Just pay attention to that. Yeah. And if, and, and because you, you could potentially just weight stay very similar because you got a lot of good muscle and you might just keep building a little bit.

Yeah. By the way, reverse diet and you went down in 2% body fat. That's pretty great. Dude.

That's incredible. You're done great and you're in a really good place right now.

And.

Yeah. And I think the thing that will be encouraging is to just keep an eye on that waistline and see you probably hang on to all that muscle and just slowly drop your inches off your waist.

Now here's way, here's a way you can mess this up. Okay. One way you can mess this up is in that week of maintenance. Instead of going up to maintenance, it's like, this is my week of cheat meals. Yeah. Don't do that. And then it goes like crazy and then it washes out the difference.

Great point.

And then it could turn into a like, you know, we kind of just maintain maintaining because it's three weeks of a cut and one week of a massive surplus. So.

I'm so glad you said that. Don't take the. What I'm saying is your maintenance or bulk is like a eat whatever the hell you want that week because she's right.

It's literally controlled. It's still controlled. Yeah, you're just up to, you're just going back up to 3200 calories.

Okay, one question on the follow up on the, the diet part of it, the way I've been working it now is I've been averaging 3,200. So throughout the week. So I still have the cheat meal at the end day of the the week. I try to bring my calories back on that on that Saturday. And if there's a reason that, like we have a barbecue or kids out in the pool and you know, there's drinks around, I want to still be able to have some flexibility. So I've just been.

Okay.

I just want to make sure that having those fluctuations.

Totally.

I don't have to. Totally.

Okay, no, that's fine.

Just, just know that now the average is 2500. So, so, so it's same, same strategy. And you still can have a little bit of that flexibility on those days total. Totally. But in that three week quote unquote cut, your average needs to be 2500, which means maybe some of the days are 22, because you, you know, you have a day that's 3000. So it needs to average about 2500 a day for, for that, those three weeks even with that built in. And then on the now if you can, you know, try and make those extra days on the, the week where you're more at maintenance. But I understand that life doesn't always work out that way. So it's totally fine. Just make the average 25, 500 and then go back to maintenance on the.

32 and just, you know, not to throw a wrench in this, but just because you don't have to do it this way. But in my experience, the easiest way to do the cuts is to cut the carbohydrates down during those weeks of the cut. It's just a more black and white kind of easy, simple. Especially if you're not trying to like, you know, macro count everything. It's like very easy kind of way to cut calories for some people. So that's just one approach. Doesn't have to be that way, though.

Yeah, it's kind of what I was thinking. I don't really want to take away from my protein, and when I cut fats, I kind of feel like garbage.

Same. Same here.

So.

Yep.

Yeah.

Dude, you're doing good.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Awesome. And symmetry, what kind of program is that? I haven't researched it much. Is that like a three day a week still or more?

Symmetry, I believe, is more. It's very unilateral, except for the first two weeks. It's five days a week, right, Doug?

Is it five?

Yeah, yeah. Does that work. Work for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you're following anabolic advance, which is. Which is more. More days a week than anabolic, so. Yeah, no symmetry. You're gonna love symmetry.

We'll send that over to you.

And then after symmetry, go back to anabolic.

Okay, cool.

And I want another update because I'm excited what happens right here. Yeah, dude, I think you'd be really happy.

You're killing it.

Yep.

I'm gonna come back jacked as hell.

You're gonna love it. Yeah, I like it.

All right, man.

All right, Derek.

All right, well, thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

Take it easy.

Later. It's so funny when people say dad bod, because the truth is, when they do that data, it's not that women like dudes with a belly. Women like dudes with muscle who aren't shredded. It's typically what it is.

Yeah.

So it's like any since some guys around 18, 19 isn't supposed to be.

Just a fat beer belly.

You just look strong.

Yeah, you look strong. And, and, and, yeah, you just look how you're.

You look like the average person would look at you and go, oh, he works. He goes to the gym. Yeah, you don't look. You don't walk in. And people go, oh, he probably competes. Yeah, yeah, you go, oh, damn. He lifts weights. Like, that's. To me, what that looks like.

That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You will. See you at Mind Pump Media.

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