Black Girl Friendship with Danielle Bayard Jackson

Hey, girl. Welcome to the get yout Guy coaching podcast. My name is Anwar White, but you can just call me your own personal dating and relationship coach. Each week you'll hear actionable advice, tips, and strategies that you can implement in your own love life. I'm talking about healing your heart, dating effectively, and understanding men so that you can, you guessed it, get your guy. Are you ready to level up your love life? All right, let's go.

I never felt the way I do without anyone but you.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome, everyone, to the get your Guy coaching podcast. I have a very special guest with me today. I'm so happy that you're here. I have the premier expert on friendship, the Friendship coach, Danielle Byer Jackson. Girl, I'm so happy that you're here. Girl, tell the girl what you do, why you do it. Just introduce yourself.

I'm happy to be here. I'm totally fangirling to be talking to.

You because I'm fangirling everything that comes out of your mouth.

I'm like, this is amazing. I'm so happy to be here. So, yeah, I am a friendship coach, but I dress it up. I say, you know, I'm a relational health educator because people are like, wow, you know, but I see you, you know, you got to do that, especially at parties. People are like, I'm sorry, what do you do? Yeah, but I help women who are trying to find more satisfaction in their platonic relationships. And so I started off as a high school teacher teaching 12th graders. It was the number one thing they wanted to talk about between classes and after school, their friendship issues. Then I left that world and I got into public relations. And I'm working with probably the same clientele as you, high achieving, intelligent women. And I discovered that secretly, they too, are struggling with their friendship issues. And so for the past six years, I've been leveraging my background as an educator. And I study what the research has to say about women's cooperation, communication, and conflict. And it has been such a fun ride.

I love that. Yes, girl. And I've seen you a lot on Tik Tok on ig, and I love that you give the numbers because I give the numbers, too, because, you know, a lot of these people. I hear you, and y' all can't see me, but I'm putting a finger to my mouth and then testing the air to just talk my ish. A lot of people just saying things out of thin air, and we need some numbers to back this up, which is really important. So I really do Appreciate the fact that you go the extra step to really back everything that you're saying with data, statistics, numbers, math, and I think that's really important in research. So, girl, let's get into it. Why is it so hard to, like, get friends, girl, especially in some of. Some of our bigger ages?

Yeah. Yeah, it is really difficult, right? And a lot of times we kind of romanticize the past. Like, oh, it was so much easier in school. But there are a lot of things that made it easier. One, we're in the same schedule with our peers, same amount of time, you know, on the social backdrop, where they quite literally tell you when to socialize, realize it's time for lunch, it's time for recess, you know, but now we have all these competing obligations demanding our time, and we have to now facilitate those opportunities for ourselves. And a lot of us realize, oh, gosh, I don't. I don't really know how to, like, develop a new friendship. Should I know how to do this? And the shame around I should be able to do this. I think it's also tricky because a lot of us put friendship, you know, we push it to the margins of our lives. You know, I'll get to that. And then when we do need emotional support, we're like, oh, my God, I don't. I don't have anyone. Or we get booed up, and we let them fall by the wayside. And then the final thing I'll say is, you know, I'm noticing a lot of people are, you know, burned out from just work and capitalism, and they are like, I don't know that I have it to give, and I want friendship and companionship, but I don't. I'm trying to muster up the. The energy to do that. And then the last thing I'll say is, you know, the research tells us that there's a friendship dip that happens in our 30s and 40s. So, you know, it becomes about friendship maintenance at this time, because we had the least amount of leisure hours or discretionary time than other generations or age groups. I think the average is like four hours a week. You know, some of us are. We've got kids. We are trying to advance in our careers. We might be caring for aging parents. So there's a lot of things happening during this particular time period that makes us have to be more intentional about creating and maintaining our friendships.

I love that you mentioned this. I will also say, and I think that this is, like, aligned with kind of dating and romantic relationships as well, is that there was, like, A significant change pre pandemic and post pandemic. So I just want to kind of ask you kind of, have you seen any specific changes around that time period as it pertains to, like, friendship or not? I remember some of the research saying that, like, you know, people are having less and less friends now. And I think it, like, when it significantly. It significantly decreased after the pandemic. I think, like, especially I was looking at men who usually had, like, five friends, and now they have one.

Right.

And, like, women had, like, 13, and now they have, like, five or something. Like that was something crazy like that. But I would love to hear just, like, your thoughts around, like, how friendship has changed pre pandemic versus post pandemic.

Totally. I'm. I'm nodding, yes, very, like, eagerly, but 100% to all the things you just said. You know, I see a handful of people who report, you know, hey, during the pandemic, my friendships actually strengthened because I had to be, you know, very critical about who I spent time with. And. And we're in these containers together. So I get that. But that wasn't. I don't think the dominant story. I think the dominant story was I lost friends during that time. And something that troubles me that I'm seeing is this learned loneliness that has happened since then where we get very comfortable with spending all of our time at home. And just because something is comfortable to you doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you. And so I get it. I like to Netflix and do all the things. But people report.

That, like, it's harder to develop relationships. I'm hearing them say that people have not returned to pre pandemic activities, that people are comfortable being at home. And so, I mean, like, yes, sure, those things are going to make it difficult to form and deepen our friendships. Yes.

Yeah.

And I will say, before pandemic, though, the trend of spending time alone and less time with friends, that began 2013. So for the past 11 years, the number of time we're spending with friends has decreased. I think in 2013, the average was about six hours a week. It is now about two hours a week. And that began, you know, you know, what, seven years before the pandemic. And so it might just be, like, a general cultural shift.

Yeah, that's so interesting.

Yeah. Girl. Last week I told the girls, you're gonna have to go outside if you're gonna need to get your man. And, girl, you would have thought I said that they had to kill their own mama. They said, outside, what are you talking about I can't do it, I can't do it? I said, girl one, put your shoes on, open the door and step outside. Touch some grass, touch them in.

But to your point about just getting really comfortable, just like being in our space and in our aloneness, which oftentimes is good as well, but obviously there is balance for both of them. Okay, now, you know, you know, the majority of my listeners are women of color, black and brown women. And I wanted to be very specific and intentional about asking you maybe some of the specific challenges that black and brown women may face as they kind of navigate their friendship journey.

Yes. Okay, so a couple things I've seen. One is for the high achieving women, we know we specially specifically black women are very educated group. So for the high achieving, I got this go getter. I find that sometimes they don't open up about the help they need or the support they need or being vulnerable in a certain way because we pride ourselves on being self sufficient and strong. But then we're complaining about nobody's got me who shows up for me. But I'm not allowing you any opportunities to. I'm not slowing down enough to, to share openly. I'm not authentic sometimes with my girlfriends about, you know, hey, I could use support here. And so I see that sometimes. But you know, that's not just a conversation around vulnerability. But if you are not satisfied with your friendships, one of the reasons might be because you don't feel known, you feel isolated, nobody gets me, nobody cares. To what degree can I do? Am I contributing to the state of my friendships? So that's one thing I see get in the way of true connectedness in women's friendships for women of color, a black woman specifically. Um, another is, you know, for women sometimes who were parentified, you know, you had to kind of run the home or you were, you know, having to be mom for mom or whatever that is. You know, just taking a look at how might that have been impacting your friendships today? The role that you feel comfortable playing, do you step into a certain kind of role and has that been helpful for you? You know, how's that working out for you? If you were raised in a home where your parents told you, you know, we don't tell our business or honey.

All of them, all of the households. All of the households, right.

Don't, you know, don't run everything. That's right, it stays in the house. Or you don't need those little friends. You be careful, be careful. For girls like that fast girl, you Know, I got that as a church girl, be careful about her. She's this. She's this. So now my brain is on guard and distrusting because I, I, who do I associate with, who's okay and no shade.

But those are the girls that are like some of the best friends.

I know. We have stories. We, we. I'm saying, wait, let's happen since, you know. But, but so, so taking a look at, with regard to vulnerability, making time for friendships, prioritizing friendship, what are some of the ways that the messages that were downloaded from childhood might be showing up in the way that you engage in your friendships?

Yeah, 100. I love the work that you do because I think we do actually very similar work. Just different lanes, same highway. Right. And so when you're talking about, oh, I'm not telling my business, I'm not my friends, what's going on in my life. Right. One of the things that I do in my program with my clients is make sure that we're using some of our friendships to practice some of that vulnerability, some of those boundaries that are so necessary to show up in healthy relationships. Because what I to your point about, your second point about parentified individuals is that they're so used to not taking up any space that, like, they're just like, the wise counsel. And like, 90% of the time, all of their friends are just coming to them and asking them for help, for advice. And then they feel like, so much resentment around, like, the fact that, well, no one's actually giving me space to, like, be right. I always recommend, girl, you're just going to have to take it. You can't wait for people to kind of just lay out this red carpet for you. You're literally going to have to step and take up more space in your relationships. What do you say for, like, some strategies to level up in friendship based on some of the challenges that we've already just spoken about?

Yeah. So I can narrow it down to, to three things. There's a friendship expert, her name is Shasta Nelson, and she develops something called friend.

Is that if you want depth in your friendships, you need three things. She says positivity, consistency, and vulnerability. Positivity. Because, I mean, this is a totally voluntary kind of relationship. There are no binds here. So if I'm going to elect to be friends with you at the base, it has to be a good time. For the most part. It needs to be a pleasurable experience. So how much of our interactions are me chronically venting or me, you know, so to, to Some degree. One benefit of friendship is I have somebody to take my troubles to. Sure. But how much of it has become that? And I need to reel back or manage that in order to feel more satisfied in my friendships. And then that second piece about consistency, I don't know how you feel. I know the whole low maintenance friend is a thing. I get it.

That's not me, girl. That's not me.

If I'm not hearing from you, I can't do it. I can't do it. I had to learn that about myself though. I'm. I'd be interested after you share this information about kind of your friendship journey as well. Because I'm a different friend now than I was 10 years ago versus 20 years ago. Right? Yeah.

Interesting. I love that because I hear people talk about how they're growing in their approach to like romantic relationships, but not in friendships. Because I would like to think that I've definitely changed some mindsets and approaches personally as well. And then this consistency piece, that's a part of that. Hey, if I want the return, if I want to feel satisfied, we're going to have to clock some hours together. Like, I actually want to see you. I don't want to just be self reporting to you, you know, once a quarter and be like, oh, you're my bestie. But we don't have to talk ever. You know, like, okay, we need to have some shared experiences. In fact, there's research that finds that it takes 34 hours to move someone from an acquaintance to a friend. So what am I doing to be intentional about seeing you and spending time together? And then finally vulnerability, which the, you know, the simplest way, I guess to define it is just, you know, taking a risk of being rejected. There's a chance this doesn't go well. And so that could look like telling another girl, hey, I really enjoyed spending time with you. I would love to do that again. Or it looks like opening up about, you know, a fear or goal. And the last thing I'll say is, you know, one example, especially for women in friendships, is it can feel vulnerable to shine in front of one another because I don't want to be a target. So especially for women where we're not competing for status and we don't do hierarchies socially, you know, we get scared to say, I got the promotion, the guy I'm seeing wants to be exclusive, that I got the house, you know, because do I look like I think I'm better? But we should be able to celebrate. You don't don't not shine. So you know, thinking about the ways that we can increase those three things might bring us more satisfaction.

I love that. And guess what? All of those things are necessary for a romantic relationship as well.

Look at that.

Especially the last point that you pointed out around shining. One of the things that I see that is like the difference between a great partner and a mediocre partner. No Shade is that he will be your number one cheerleader, right? That like literally you will like, he will be the one that's telling you do it, go, go for that promotion, do that. Because not a lot of guys are actually like that. A lot of guys are very much about themselves, their goals and wanting to like self actualize themselves so that they can feel a value. So they're hyper focused on their goals and they'll like listen to your goals, but they won't actually support you and move you up. So I think I really, I love that last point because it really does separate the great partners from the mediocre or fairly good partners. Right? I love that so much. Okay, so I was going to talk a little bit about my friendship journey and then I want to talk about yours, if you're okay with that girl. Because you know, girlfriends, even though.

I want to hear it, how have you.

No, this is really important because I actually had to use my friendship relationships to become the person that's ready for the best relationship of my life. So I would say like 20 years ago, what I was doing, I was doing everything for everyone. I was picking people up from the airport, I was paying for all of the dinners. I was always there for them. And in middle of the night, call me, do whatever. And like we were just saying nobody was doing that for me. And I wasn't necessarily asking for that. And then I was getting really mad and butt hurt and I felt like I don't really have great friends. Like it was good when we were there in the moment, in the present term, in the present tense. Right. We were having a lot of fun. But then it was those moments in between where I just felt so lonely and I actually felt like I had negative friends. Not like, Right. It was like a net negative in between the times. And that's why I came up with this, this, this term between date behavior. Because it's the same with friendship. Like just because we hang out once every month, girl. But what's happening in between, that's the stuff that actually really does matter. And so that, that was me 20 years ago. And then 10 years ago I was like, you know what? I'm going to be in observation mode. I'm going to take it and I'm going to leave it, right? And I'm going to match energy, right? And that's when I was like, okay, well, before, I'd be like, I'm going to reach out to my friends every week and see how they're doing. And then I was like, that was the 20 years ago me. And then the 10 years ago was like, they reach out, then I'll reach out afterward and we'll do. We'll do it like that, right? And then I had to just learn how to accept people for who they were. And I realized that different people are different kinds of friends. And you have people like me, and maybe it's a certain attachment issue where it's like, no, I need to. I need to talk to you every day. That's the kind of friend that I am. Like, my tribe, I talk to them every day. I literally talk to my. My best friend and my mom earlier this morning because we talk every day. And that is like my requirement what, what I feel comfortable and safe in. But I had to add, accept that a lot of my friends were friends that were in real life friends. Right? And meaning, like, when I'm in your city, we're going to. We're going to kick it. We're going to have a great time. But when we're not, when I can't see you, then I'm probably not going to hear from you a lot, and that's okay. And I had to. I had to get secure in my own attachments, right? And my own, like, abandonment wounds and everything like that to make sure that that was okay for me. So that's, like, been my kind of journey over the last couple of decades around how I'm showing up in my friendships. But I'd love to hear a little bit about yours.

That is so good. I think that's so interesting to hear about how you shifted and how you are using past experience to kind of inform how you want to show up today. And, And I love that. I think for me, the. The biggest. The biggest change, if I'm being totally honest, is I have grown more and more comfortable in my own skin with who I am and things like that. I, honest to God, I really believe that has positioned me for healthier friendships. And there was no like of that, you know, jealousy or competing or anything like that. But when you are insecure about your appearance, your abilities, your intelligence, your. You compensate in ways that might surprise you that you might not be aware of. It might be competing. It might be not initiating calls. It might be, you're talking too much because you're trying to prove that you're just as smart as everybody. Like, it shows up and it infiltrates the friendships in these ways. And I think the more comfortable I got with, you know, okay, I know these are some growth areas, and this is something I'm working on and. And feeling comfortable opening up about things I'm working on. I think it's attracted healthy, reasonable.

Celebratory, strong, admirable women in my life. And so currently, all of the tight friendships I have are all women who I have so much respect for. Like, if we weren't friends, I'd be looking at her across the room and be like, dang, she is so cool. She's so strong. She's so smart. And now I'm like, wow, I'm friends with them. You know, this is amazing, but I think it's because when I was insecure, I saw women a certain way, and I engage with them a certain way. But now I see them as an extension of myself. Like, you are me, I am you. And I don't know, I think it's changed the quality of my friendships over time, but that was work I had to do. And. And I don't just see that for me, I see that for other people as well. So feel comfortable speaking up if I need more. I don't feel clingy or sitting on requests or. Or reconciling after conflict even. I feel safe and confident to initiate things I have an issue with in a playful way. And then we move on, you know, instead of emotionally withdrawing and all of that. And so it just kind of touches everything in the realm of friendship. But. But I'm still growing and learning, and I'm glad to be on the journey with other people because, I mean, I don't think you ever get to a point where you're like, I'm doing friendship right, you know?

Yeah, no, I think we all are. And I think that's why these conversations are so important and so rich, because I think a lot of people feel very stagnant about, like, where they are in their friendship. Like, there's this one, like, quotation where, like, you have five things, right? And not everybody can have five things. And it's like, friends, family, kids, work, and, like, health or something like that. And, like, I asked, like, my people, like, okay, like, what are they? Like, they say you can have three out of these five things. And friends is never in the top three.

Oh, interesting.

And my people are like, you know, yeah, yeah, bae. Right. So. But. But that is, like, I think, really telling. And I'm so glad that you shared your. Your journey as well, because I think, you know, we're all trying to figure this. This. This thing out, which is so. Can be very tricky, but also.

A very good way to practice and train and work on the things that you need to work on for other relationships.

Yeah.

Which is so amazing. Okay, girl, I had to bring you on here because one of the questions that I had was, like, girl, how do we navigate interracial friendships? Because it has been very tricky, especially, like, in the workplace and like, in other places as well. Right. With so many things happening in the world, sometimes it can be really tricky. So what advice or what knowledge can you share or impart to the black and brown women that are listening, that are like, yes, I'm working on these friendships, but sometimes some of these white women.

Yes, I appreciate that question so much. So this is what I'll say, especially as a black girl who grew up in the suburbs. Okay.

Worries. Okay. But.

I like to strip it down to this. And I hope this is not reductive, but I think it's a good baseline. Is that at it. At its core, friendship should offer some sense of ease and understanding. For the most part, if I'm engaged with anybody in a friendship and I feel like it's not, I'm performing, I'm explaining, I'm like, all this, right? And to some degree, it's going to be work, we're going to have conflict. But if I'm, like, constantly explaining or performing or I can't relax or settle into it because I'm on edge or on radar, those things kind of work against what friendship should offer me. Especially, I think, for black women who we do have to be on in every other arena. So when I come home to my girls, I really want to be able to fuss without people thinking I have an attitude. I want to be able to tell you about my boss without being, well, do you think it was, like, in your head or do you think, like, you. Actually, I don't have time for that. Right. I don't have time for that. So it has to offer a certain sense of ease and then also understanding. There's something known as social identity support. And the idea is that we tend to do really well with people who affirm and see the various aspects of our identity. Maybe you don't share this with me, but you you, you affirm it in me and my blackness is a part of my identity. If that is something you can't affirm or see, we're going to like, psychologically, like, there's an issue here because I can't fully be me. And so are there white women who, who can do that?

Yeah, sure.

Do. I have white friends where we've had these tense moments and I'm like, oh, this is going to be telling and we get on the other side. Sure. But because there are so many white women who cannot offer ease and understanding, then sure, it makes sense to me that a lot of us would be kind of reluctant to totally lean into those kinds of friendships. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah, girl.

Thank you so much for answering that. Yeah, it's important, right. Because I think we all want to be as open minded as possible. But to your point, I think safety and security is like of the utmost importance. So thank you for sharing your knowledge around that. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about like friendships in dating. So one of the things that I recognize often is that a lot of times my clients right before they're about to get into a relationship with a guy, I'm always like, okay, well let's introduce you to his friends or to your friends and they're freaking out or they're scared. And so I would love to hear kind of how you think about friendships within the realm of dating and kind of what your experience has been as you continue to do this work.

Yeah. Oh gosh, I feel that so much because I felt the same way when I was sitting like, okay, this is, this is huge. Right? They're going to meet the guy, they're going to have things to say, he's going to meet them. I need them to behave, you know, so you got all this.

Let's talk about the behave hard because a lot of our friends act a freaking fool. And I'm trying to figure out why that is. Right.

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I'm not sure what happens when friends show out and you're like, I need you for like 30 minutes to just keep it together.

Right.

I don't know what that's about. I don't know if they're, I don't know if it's just the sillies. I don't know if it's a test, you know, that they're kind of testing him. To which I don't know that I'm a fan of testing people. I don't know, you know, so, so I don't know what's at play there. But you know, I think, think when you feel like it's safe and appropriate, I think it's really important to have your friends meet your guy at some point. And this is because, you know, there's research that shows that people who are, well, specifically marriage. Okay. Because the study was conducted within the context of marriage, they found that spouses who are satisfied with their social support outside of the marriage tend to report having less cortisol, which is the stress hormone after marital conflict. So I have less like tension and resentment and all that in my marriage. When I'm also satisfied with the friendships that I have, it's stabilizing to the relationship. So I need reasonable, level headed people I can talk to, vent to or even just kind of share experiences with outside of this relationship that therefore go back and stabilize how I show up in this romantic relationship. They also found that a lot of successful relationships, the most successful relationship are relationships where there's a friendship overlap, meaning they share the same friends. And I know some people feel some kind of way. I don't think you need to, you know, my man needs to be besties with my bestie. But I think to some degree they have their own civil relationship. They can joke or whatever, or if I walk out of the room, they've got their own little joke. I, I don't mind that. But again, it helps them to act as a mediator when we do have issues in the relationship. You know, my friends can advocate for him. Okay, Danielle, well, you know, you, you need to tone down. So maybe you popped much. You know, they can advocate for him and, and they kind of can concede both parties. So there's benefits to us all being a village and we all know each other. And then, you know, my friends can kind of see things in him and say, Danielle, I don't know, you know, because this is you when you're your best self. I don't know if you're your best self when you're with him. So I think there's definitely benefits to, to everybody getting to know each other. But I know that during that process a lot of things can be revealed about both parties. You know, what are you seeing after introductions or before introductions?

Well, I always tell my girls, I was like, girl, you know, your friends, right? Is she going to act a fool or is she not? And you, if she's going to act a fool, you're going to have to have a conversation with her beforehand. Right? Just bring her to a level that is not going to bring sort of drama and that we can be really in observation mode versus the friends that are totally going to be fine. I don't think you need to have a conversation with them beforehand. I always say you want to reach back out and you want to ask them what the interaction was, how they think about the person. Right. And be very active and asking their opinion. Because when you ask them, it actually opens the space and engenders a level of trust where they're going to feel like they can be a bit more open with you. Right.

Some of the research I've seen is that friends and family can predict relationships at like, the 90, 92% range, whereas we in the relationship are. Are pretty accurate about 62, 66% of the time. You want to have your friends around. Right. You want to have what I call your love jury around in times where you might not have the full perspective to your point. Right. The other thing that I think is important, too, is.

Making sure that.

When you like, making sure that the people that are in your jury are people that have experience in healthy relationships. Because we have a lot of single women that are trying to help their single friends, and that's not bad. But what I'm saying is that sometimes that some of the advice and some of the energy with that advice isn't fully serving them. So you just want to make sure that. That when you are picking your love jury, you're picking people that have good and healthy relationships and experience that can tell you something that you already don't know about relationships or yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. 100% agree.

Yeah. Okay, so, you know, oftentimes, and I do videos about this all the time, and the question is, how do we navigate friendships when we know that our partner isn't the one? Or you're a friend, she introduces him, and you're like, oh, my God, this guy's not it. Like, I know it with all of my heart, my being, my soul.

How.

Like, what would be your recommendation around navigating that friendship, knowing that information?

Okay, so I hear you saying if a friend introduced you to a guy and that's not working out, how do you re. Engage with the relation, the friendship?

If. If my best friend introduces her guy to me and I know that that guy isn't it.

Oh, for her.

For her. Oh, girl. How. How do you think about navigating that friendship? Should there be a conversation involved? Should there not be?

Okay, this is so tricky. This is so tricky because I really. I mean, I'm sure you've heard It a thousand times times. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that about. I said my opinion and now I don't hear from my friend anymore. Okay? I've been iced out. And so, you know, one thing I would offer is to focus on traits and dynamics instead of the individual. So it doesn't feel like an attack. And so they don't feel like, see, it's us against the world. People don't understand us. And then she, like, insulates with him.

Even further, which is dangerous.

Girl, I know. So instead of, you know, I just. I don't know, he funny or he was too loud or he was kind of rude. I mean, these feel like attacks. So I might speak more to the dynamic itself. I might say, like, yeah, okay, well, you know, he seems nice enough, but I don't know. Normally you're really, you know, giggly and chuckly and silly and I don't see that, you know, I didn't see that with him. Like, that's strange. Like, do you. Do you do that? And maybe we just didn't see it, you know, so I'm going to talk about the UIC when you guys are together and show concern in that way as opposed to making it about him. Because it really isn't about him. It's about the dynamic you have when you are with somebody. So I might comment on how you're not as playful and silly as you are with us. That's. That's so interesting. Do you want that? Is that important to you? Oh, okay, Interesting. You know, so I might kind of give some of those. Or if he's, you know, mistreating her, like, okay, well, I just know you said it was important to you that, you know, you have someone who offers abc, but you, you know, he's giving, you know, xyz. That's just interesting. So for me, I might point to the discrepancies between the dynamic you're in now and what you've told me now before, that you want for yourself and speak to the gap that way it doesn't feel like I'm attacking the man or that I'm being jealous or whatever it is. And then when it looks like we're getting to a point where this is happening, this is in motion, and nobody's slowing this train down. I would have to. This is so tough. At some point. At some point. And I don't know if you agree.

No, girl, speak your truth, girl.

When it looks like this is happening. We've had the conversations. She heard Me, it's been a while, and this train is moving. Despite what I say, at some point, if it's. If there's no threat of real harm or danger, I have to at some point, kind of accept it and release my goal of trying to make her see he's a loser. Like, at some point, I have to say, okay, he's not for me. I don't think he's great for her. But if it's something she's going through, she's engaged in all the things, and this is happening, and she's not in harm's way, at some point, do I find a way to just support them superficially? So that might look like I, you know. She says, oh, you know, he's taking me on a trip next weekend. And I really want to say, wow, that broke bum can afford to take you on a trip. But instead I say, okay, well, you know what? You have been working really hard this week, so you deserve a break. Love that for you. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not going to be inauthentic, but I'm also not gonna. Oh, okay. Because I don't want her to stop telling me things. I don't want things get bad. And now she feels like she lost me. She can't pull away from him because I'm like, I'm done with y'. All. So now she feel like she has nowhere to retreat to when it doesn't work out, you know? So it is. It is tricky, though. But what are. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I think it. For me, it really depends on the. The level. Like, there are just people that, like, I don't vibe with you, right? So I don't like. I don't like you because we don't buy. There's nothing maybe wrong with you, per se. I just don't vibe with you, right? Maybe it's an energy. At that point, I'm. I'm like, sit back, observe. Be that. Be that friend. Right? When it starts to become into, like, maybe, like, emotional abuse or other neglect or other sorts of abuses, this is where I always tell people, like.