Getting to 1st Chair With Theresa S. Thames

Hey, girl. Welcome to the get yout Guy coaching podcast. My name is Anwar White, but you can just call me your own personal dating and relationship coach. Each week you'll hear actionable advice, tips and strategies that you can implement in your own love life. I'm talking about healing your heart, dating effectively, and understanding men so that you can, you guessed it, get your guy. Are you ready to level up your love life? All right, let's go.

I never felt the way I do.

Without anyone but you. Hello, my loves. And thank you so much for joining me today. I have a very special guest with me. Her name is Teresa Times and she is an executive mindset coach. And today we're going to be talking all about how to level up, right? How to become and get into that first chair. And we came up with this concept because we both played instruments and I played the flute. What did you play? Girl?

I played the clarinet.

And any overachievers out there who played instruments growing up know that that first chair was everything. And you were always in the pursuit of that first chair. And you know, one of the things that we realized as we talked back and forth was that we're always kind of in search and pursuit of that first chair. And so we wanted to just talk a little bit about that today and really get some clarity around how can we do that? So, Teresa, thank you so much for coming here and gracing us with your amazing wisdom and presence and person.

Thank you so much. I really am excited about this conversation.

Me too, girl, I can't wait. You're giving me life already. So before we get into it, girl, I want to talk about your business and who you serve, right? So that people get a really clear understanding of like what you do. I always think people can talk about themselves and what they do better than I could ever do it. I'm not going to read off somebody's bio. So talk to me about what you do and then I'll tell the people how fabulous you really are.

Well, I am the founder and CEO of Soul Joy Coaching llc and I help high achieving women of color get unstuck in their personal lives while navigating a demanding and high stakes career. And they do that by cultivating boundaries and prioritizing self care and joy.

Yes, I love that. Now how did you get into this work? Like tell the people who you are and all the amazingness that you do.

In my non coaching life, which is still my coaching life, I'm an ordained pastor and being a pastor, I have the unbelievable privilege of walking with people through different journeys of their lives. However, what I also realized, looking around at my colleagues, that many of the women in ministry were struggling, and many majority of the women of color were absolutely struggling. And so I was thinking about how. How is it possible that women who are in leadership, women who are intellectually like, just powerful and brilliant and can do above and beyond, not be able to thrive in their lives. And I didn't want thriving to be just about the material things of thriving, but really about joy and this place of inner peace and unapologetic authenticity and how that looks in your life in real tangible ways.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about joy. I think this is like such an important concept and how do you define it? And then I'll talk a little bit about how I have defined it for myself.

Yeah. I believe that joy is different from happy. Happiness, I believe has to do with what's happening around you. Happiness is situational, is an emotion. I believe that joy is a character, that it's something that you cultivate. It is what centers you. It is what keeps you steady. It is the thing inside of your gut that anchors your life. And no matter what situationally is happening around you. I grew up in the black Baptist church in Mississippi. I called it Baptist Baptist. And the song that they would sing is like, this joy that I have. The world didn't give it to me, and the world can't take it away. And just this idea of this deep well of joy that positions me that whatever comes what may, that I'm going to be okay. And that is the foundation of why I focus so much on joy and less on bubblegum pop wrapper happiness.

Yeah, I love that so much. Well, my definition of joy is not as intense and beautiful as yours, but I have to say, you know, I had a really hard time. I want to say about nine years ago, I was a little bit depressed. My work situation was really toxic and narcissistic. And I took some time off of that situation just to kind of reclaim my joy. And that was one of the words I used to every day while I was journaling. And one of the things that I felt when I thought about joy was that thing that just lights up my spirit. And I generally think about that thing that I loved when I was between the ages of 8 and 12. It's such, like, a very innocent time. Those are the things that I think really bring joy. And no one can really, as you were pointing out, take those things away from you. So, like playing basketball and Playing tennis and going back. So I was a huge professional wrestling fan. So actually.

Girl, who was your favorite wrestler?

Listen, the Undertaker. I was girl.

Undertaker girl. I'm talking about some macho man.

Right? But, like, getting into those things that, like, bring like, you can't help but like, smile from the inside out. Right? And so I say all of that to say I'm hoping that the listeners can figure out what their joy is and the way that we're kind of talking about it so that that can be centered for them. Right. Versus this thing that's on the periphery that we're not really kind of focused on, that we're like, oh, it's kind of there. I can kind of touch it when I want to, but it's not necessarily right in front of us.

You know, I want to add something really quick that I think for. I don't think I know. For me, it's important that women of color claim joy because the world is so hard for us. And if we had to think about our emotions based on what's happening around us, we would literally lose our minds, literally not be stable. And so for us to not be drawn by all of the ways that externally we are supposed to be, the expectation of all of the ways that culture tell women of color how we should be in the world, but have this deep seated place of unapologetic authenticity and ownership of being, that is the joy that's important to me, especially for women of color.

I love that you said that because I just want to add that I think that sometimes women of color can feel like joy can disrupt them from achieving their goals. And it's actually a hindrance when anything, it accelerates it.

Yes, yes. And you know why? It's because I believe that we've been taught that joy is in competition to anything else that we want to do in our lives. And so you can't have a relationship because that's a distraction. That joy of a relationship is a distraction from all of these other things you need, need to achieve. Like, you can't be happy with the things that you've done or accomplished or really lavish in that joy, because that's boastful and it could go away. And so we learn to grab onto momentary places of happiness. But we haven't had real models of lavishing and joy that's it's so important.

One of the first modules that I have in my program is my confidence module. And in there we kind of figure out, well, girl, let's figure out who you are in These love streets. Right? And so that doesn't become a chore or another job, but it can actually be so much fun. Right? Like, you don't have to play a role. You don't have to put yourself in that box. Like, girl, talk your shit. Do whatever you normally do. As if you were at a family reunion and you were seeing an old cousin or you're talking to your best friend. Like, that's the joy and the fun that I want people to have in dating. And so just like in the rest of your life, if you don't have that joy inside, it's not going to work. It's actually harder for you to achieve the results you want to achieve without it. And obviously.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I also believe I am a certified yoga teacher, and I believe that the other things among the other things, but I believe that women of color are so disconnected from our sacral chakra, that place that is in our sexual organs, that's in the seat of that. It robs us when we aren't connected to that chakra. It robs us of our imagination, it robs us of that creativity. It robs us of passion. It robs us of power. And so how do we connect the heart, the head, and that place of sacral feminine energy and power?

Yeah. Yeah. I love that, girl. Let's talk about first chair experiences.

Yes.

Let's talk about getting into that first year now. Were you ever first chair?

Absolutely.

I'm asking, girl. I don't know because I was like there for like 2.5 seconds, and then I got knocked off like, the next week, and I was like. Felt like a fool. So talk to me about growing up and trying to get into that first chair in music, and then we can talk a little bit about what that looks like in our more adult lives.

Absolutely. So I wanted to play clarinet because a cousin played clarinet. But then I knew nothing about the real parts of music. Learning notes, learning treble clef and bass clef. Like, I was a singer. I grew up in the church. We sang in church. But I didn't know the art of music, the science behind music. And once I learned that there was all of these things I needed to learn, I practiced all of the time. And I was going back and forth. So I was always like first, second, or third chair. I would just go back and forth between those. But however, as I got older and started growing up, this place of. As a woman, especially as a black woman in the south, it's okay to be like the supporting actress. Like the supporting actor in everything. And so I saw, I learned, I'm indirectly taught that you just support everybody else. You do your thing, you, you be hush about it, but support everyone and everything that they do. And so, Anwar, I sort of lost my drive to be number one because it was like, you know, I'm in the background, I'm doing my thing. And so I had a life and a career where I was the best supporting actress in everyone else's starring movie.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now, unlike you, I was rarely first chair, but because I didn't practice as much, I was like doing other things, watching a shit ton of TV that maybe I shouldn't have watched, but I was doing other things. But I still felt like I really want to be first chair, but I wasn't doing the things that were necessary and doing it. I chose flute because it was like one of the least expensive instruments and you know, girl, my femininity was thriving at 7 and 8 years old, so. And we all know flute was a girl's instrument.

Back in the 80s and 90s. Girl, we were less accepting and we had our gender roles when it came to so. But girl, I didn't care. I was like, I'm gonna play the flute. It's portable, it's cute, it's nice, I'm with my girls. But how did that translate into my adult life? I think that maybe there was a sense of entitlement, like I didn't have to work as much. Just being there, to your point, meant that I was in the game. And so I was happy with the scraps. I was happy with being second and third because I was still there and I was still with people. Right. Versus actually, and I think this is important because I think it happens both ways where you can either just be happy being there and being in the Hallmark movie as the supporting best friend that mix the black girl that's the supporting best friend.

Yeah.

Or you can feel like, no, like I need to be number one and I'm going to do whatever I can to be number one, even if it's like self sacrificial in a lot of ways. So I felt like for a while, just being there, getting into the good school, just being there, not necessarily getting the best grades, but just being at the good schools and being at these really good, you know, companies and maybe not doing my best, best, best, best, best, best, best, best work, but just being there made me feel like I had already won because in relation to maybe my family and my community, I had kind of maybe Surpassed or elevated where they were at. So I already felt like a winner in comparison to.

Absolutely, absolutely. That you've exceeded the circumstances of where we grew up. And so to be in the room was good enough. And also the mentality of the only and few, that there's already a woman, there's already a person of color, so they've already reached the max. I don't need to try to do that. Like there's already met this quota in my head of okay, I'm good, I'm making more money than my mom and them made and I'm able to go to Whole Foods and buy the stinky cheese.

Like.

Whole Foods.

Whole paychecks. Whole paychecks and buy some things. And so what happened for, for myself and I can say for a lot of women that I work with is that the, the minimum becomes like, okay, entering the room, that's good enough. And I get praised by how supportive I am for everyone else. I get accolades by how much I show up and go over and beyond and stay late and come early and clean up and bring the sauce for everyone else without thinking about what if I did that for myself first?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. When I think about it in terms of dating, and I tell my clients this all the time, that you have to be self centered, that the decisions that you make in dating as a woman, especially a woman of color, that's my 8020 rule. 80% of them have to be about you, 20% have to be about the guy. And most women are actually doing it in the reverse, right, the 80% about the guy. Oh, I would just got off the phone with a woman. Oh, I don't want to hurt his feelings, girl, I don't care about his feelings.

Because the priority is you, right? And once you know that, what can happen is that everyone around you will know that as well and make you the priority. And then you get what you want in life. That's what you get in dating. Because all of my clients can attest to that.

But that is radical thinking in a society that constantly tells women to be small, be small, settle, make yourself as convenient, do not inconvenience anyone else. Fit into their agenda, like what they like, laugh at their silly ass jokes, you know, make your schedule work for them because another person will never come along. And so everything in society, even like what we wear, how we talk, is all about being small. Don't let your voice be too loud, don't laugh too loud, wear the Spanx, suck it in. Everything is about being small and the Magic, as you said, is what happens when you flip that formula and you show up 100%. 100%.

Yeah.

And you prioritize everything that you want.

I love it. So let's talk about kind of ascending to that first chair in life, right? I mean, yeah, we talk a little bit about some of the challenges, but how do you think that we can start to overcome some of those challenges? Either self induced or self. Societally induced?

Yeah, it's being honest. It really is being honest with ourselves and deconstructing all of the stories and narratives that we've been told. Like, where did that come from? Who told you you were too much or you were too loud or you were unlovable or you needed to change or you needed to grow your hair? Like, where did that come from? And once we begin to challenge those notions and get really, really honest about what we want, not our mom, not our aunts, not our cousins, but that really allows us a new way of engaging with ourselves. Like, because it first starts with a lot of times we don't know what to ask for because we don't even know what we want ourselves.

It's so shocking, girl. Honey, it's shocking. It's shocking how much so many women out there do not know what they want and why.

I have, in my coaching program, I started with the question of, like, who are you? And you would think I've asked people, what is a quadratic equation? They're just like, what? They cannot describe themselves outside of what they do. It takes them a while to really think about, oh, who am I? What do I really like? And that's because just think about in the day, the many decisions that we make. And for women, especially women of color, how many of our decisions are dictated by the whims of someone else. Yeah, from what you decide to wear that day, how your hair looks, how you talk or code switch on, what kind of car you drive, where you go to lunch, what you eat. I mean, almost every decision, if we are not clear, is dictated by the wins or the likes of someone else. And I'm not saying that out of what I've heard. I'm saying that out of what I live.

Lived experience.

Lived experience.

Listening to this podcast is going to know exactly what you're talking about, girl. Exactly. I know that you said, let's be honest. Let's tell the truth. What exercises or actions can we do to help to overcome some of those challenges? I know you said, you know, be honest and tell the truth. What else?

You know, it's Therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy. Like going to a real therapist, not your girlfriend, not your pastor, a real certified therapist to sort of deconstructing those things and then journaling. I am a big journaler. Like spending time writing, writing down my thoughts because you know, thoughts are, are things that are there that are in our head. You know, it's like, but is that true, girl? Like, is that true? So I used to have long, long hair, permed hair, like Oprah, like this fly in the wind hair. But I didn't want that hair anymore because of all the upkeep. But I was like, if I cut my hair off, it's going to be like too masculine. Like, oh my gosh. And it's like, but it's not true. Where did that come from? Like, I'm going to be ugly if I cut off my hair. So journaling, like really mapping out your thoughts, where you get that from? And then I say, I know people. Two things, two other things. One, surround yourself with like minded people. Like, if you want to think a different way, start surrounding yourself with people who think the way you want to think.

In the dating world, you are surrounded by other single women who hate men. It's not going to work, girl.

It is. If you also, if you are around other single women who are insecure, it's not going to work. If you're around other single women who complain about their bodies, it's not going to work. If you're around other single women who are not in charge of their sexual identity and power, it is not going to work.

Yeah, I just wanted to add that piece because it's the same in love, dating, relationships and men as well.

And you know what? Like they, I mean, it's easy to flock with those people because those people don't challenge you. Those people just reaffirm what you already know. But if you're an insecure person and you get around competent people, either it's going to entice you or it's going to scare the shit out of you.

Yeah.

And you have to decide to lean in.

It's the same as like hanging out with people that are in the third, fourth or fifth chair or hanging out with the first chair and figuring out, yes, doing how are you?

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

What songs are you. Are you working on right now?

Yes.

Right?

Yes. Yes. Also, it's the thing about confidence too. You have to get out there. You have to get out there. Because I am Christian. A lot of dating and Christianity is around. The first person you date is the person you're going to marry. This is the person forever. And there is no joy in the absolute of this person has to work. But it has to be this confidence of getting out there and having fun and trying and keep showing up. That's the whole thing about staying in the first chair, is you keep trying over and over again. You, like, do it and you practice and you get better at it. You. You. You gain some muscle and skill by doing it.

I think you make such a really good point, which is that when you ascend to that first chair, there's going to be times of failure, and you have to be ready for that and expect it. And if you're not failing, then you're not doing what needs to be done to get into the first chair. Right? That's just part of it. I think all of us, or many of us, I will say, have such a fear of failure. For those of my girls out there that have always gotten the A's, and your mom freaked out when you got the A, and she looked at the test and tried to figure out which one you got wrong instead of phasing all of the 92 answers that you got correct. Right? Failure is a huge part of why a lot of us are driven, right? We don't want to be, and we don't want to fail. But one thing that is really important, whether it's in life or in dating that I've learned, is that if you're not failing, you're not flourishing and you're not doing what needs to be done. And so part of dating, you're going to have some failures, right? You're going to. 9 out of the 10 guys or people that you actually go on a date with will not be the one. But you got to go on dates, girls.

But also, that's a mindset thing. You know, I'm a mindset coach. Is that for black and brown women, for women of color, our margin for failure is so slim and so many things in life. And so we are actually afraid to fail. But it's like, no, you're failing forward. You are. You are trying. You're kissing the toads. You are trying on the shoes, you are trying on the dress to see if it fits you. Instead of committing and buying it and realizing, like, this shit ain't working for me. Yeah, try it on.

I love it.

I literally. I've recently shared on the socials that because of medical things, I've gained some weight this year. And today I literally went to a boutique and tried on 12 dresses. So many different sizes. Because it's like, I don't know what size my body is now, but it was the fun of, I don't care what the number says. Does this fit my body? I have a smaller waist and larger hips. But it was like if I went into saying it has to be this size, I would have been discouraged from jump. But I tried on 12 dresses of a million different sizes and I slayed a majority of them. I know that's right.

I know that's right, girl.

I just did that to say the fun. I went in with an attitude of fun, not like this thing has to work. And I think that's the last thing I'll say about the whole idea around dating is that like we have these notions of this person has to fit into this exact mold, that this has to be it. And it's like it doesn't have to be this exact perfect match. Yeah, it just doesn't.

So true. So you talked a little bit about kind of your journey and I know that we've spoken about so many of your personal transformations. Let's talk about them, girl. Because you talked about cutting your hair, you beautiful queen with short hair. Now talk to me about some of the other transformations that you've made over the years.

Because of growing up the way that I did. I married my college sweetheart and it was horrible. We didn't stay married. And it's because who I was at 18 was not who I was at 27, 28. And because there was just this place of I need to marry this person more so than is this a person that I can grow and evolve with. Your frontal lobes aren't developed at 18. And so when we got married, it just didn't work. And we went through a horrible, horrible, painful divorce. And so married and divorced. And then during that time, how I self sued was binge eating and emotional eating. And so I got up to just almost 500 pounds and I've lost over 250, 270 something pounds now. And it was really this place of this commitment of taking care of my health and showing up for myself and putting myself first. So divorce, lost weight, cut off my hair. And then I was a local church pastor and I was an associate pastor, like sitting in the second, third, fourth seat, hanging out. And then this opportunity opened up for me to be a dean at an Ivy League university. And it was like I could do this. Like I could absolutely do this. And because of all of these other things in my life that may have seemed tragic of divorce and starting over, cutting off my hair, starting over, losing weight and starting over. I was like, I can leave this comfortable job and try something different and start over. And I did. And so now I'm a dean at an Ivy League university. And then I'm remarried. And so I'm in an amazing, glorious shoulder shimmy.

And just for y' all that are listening, she is shimmying those shoulders, girl. Giving verbal commentary with.

Well, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to talk all about how you got your guide girl. Because.

I want to know. I want to know how you got your guy after all of the things that you just talked about, right? All of these different transformations and all of these really challenging times, right? Because I feel like there are so many women that I talk to on a daily basis that are saying, my life has just been really hard. I don't think that it's going to happen for me. I don't think that I deserve this. I just don't see anybody that's going to see me. Right. So I'd love for you to kind of just share your experience and your story about what that looked like for you.

No, I've had a really hard life and I don't even need to get into the. That narrative of, like, I just had a really, really hard life. But what I do know and what I lean into is that every day I'm allowed to write a different story for myself, that it is possible for me to write a different story for myself. And also, I believe that I'm not a tree, that I can move, that I don't have to be planted into one spot, into one story. And so everything that I talked about, the weight loss, the haircut, the divorce, the job, I did that real relationship with a therapist, like I did hardcore therapy, got clear on my stuff, my role in it. And when I saw the guy that ended up being my husband, I saw him on a social media platform. It wasn't even like dating or like a dating website or nothing. It was Instagram. I saw him in a picture and he was in somebody else's picture that I followed, that I barely knew. And I shot my shot like I DM'd him. You slid in the DMs, girl, I slid in the DMs. My big grown 30 year old self.

Was just, honey, the pastors are sliding in the dm. If the pastors can do it, y' all could do it out there listening. Let this be an inspiration.

Yeah. And so when I saw him, it was just like. Yeah, like, say hello. Like, I slid into the DMs and.