Lily Walford

Hello, my loves, and thank you so much for joining me today on the get your guy podcast. I have a very special guest, someone who is actually I am so fascinated with because like she is the master of all things I'm super interested in and have also studied a tad bit. But I thought I would bring her on because there are so many times where I get questions from listeners or women, potential clients, and they want to know how can I read someone? How can I know if this guy is like trustworthy or a liar or a narcissist or anything like that? And I have the guest that is going to give us all of the amazing knowledge that we need to know to decipher and distinguish between all of that. Please help me welcome Lily Walford. She is the CEO and founder of Love with Intelligence and she is going to explain all things in terms of how to read a guy. So, Lily, thank you so much for joining me today.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you.

Yes, it's going to be so much fun. I'm so into all of this stuff. So I'm like, also just like, just with all of my listeners, like tell us everything, tell us everything, tell us everything. So why don't you talk to our listeners about what you do Exactly. And how you work with your clients?

Yeah.

So I am a relationship and dating coach, but I specialize in something called behavioral profiling and body language. So I've partnered up in business with a guy called Chase Hunter Hughes. He's a world leader in behavioral profiling. He's taught about two and a half thousand military operatives to a Jason Bourne level and has something like $30 million worth of government backed research around psychology. So we know we're quite lucky to be able to use that research and apply it from life or death scenarios to relationships and dating. So how to actually see how people can connect who's compatible, who's a narcissist, and being able to read people in just six minutes or less.

Six minutes is such a short amount of time. It's so crazy. Why is that? Why is it important? What have you heard from people in terms of who you work with and how you've been able to really help them.

Yeah, I believe it's more around being able to have confidence to know that you're on the right track. Because I think when people go into dating and they meet someone and we get the rose tinted glasses on and you know, that's it, we're well away Then it's over. Oh, I know.

So to be able to have the logical backing of going, okay, well this person's actually right for a long term relationship. This is the reason why you are compatible. This is who they are. So this is the way that they're going to act and what drives them. So. So you can really understand.

Whether you're in the right relationship or not and also whether it's healthy and it's gonna be successful for the pair of you.

Which I think is so important.

I love that. I think a lot of people go into it with pure heart and I think a mix of head and heart is I think, the optimal way to kind of be approaching these things. And it sounds like that's what you're doing for your clients. So that's so amazing. So how did you get into this work?

Work girl? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Doesn't everyone want to be like a behavioral profile when they grow up?

It's very like the things that you see on tv, you know, it's like so interesting.

Yeah. So I actually started off as an accountant, so I worked in corporate. And you know, when you work in corporate, there's no such thing as an emotion. You're just, you know, doing things. Everything's so logical.

Yeah.

And gosh, I went from like, to toxic, toxic relationship to toxic relationship. Went through a very horrible narcissistic relationship. I was stalked for five years.

Oh my God.

It got to the point where it was like, okay, enough's enough. I went through a massive breakup with someone and got to the point where, you know, you hit rock bottom and it's okay. You rebuild your life re lookings of how you actually want things to be. And, and from that I found things like nlp, hypnotherapy and thought that was great. But I kind of found that a lot, a lot of the focus is around self love and confidence and self worth. And the more I looked into that, it made me realize that it's not going to stop a predator. It's not going to stop, you know, someone preying on you because it's not just about you, it's about this other person that you're attracting into your life as well. So for example, you know, a wolf isn't going to turn around and go, oh, that sheep's got a load of self confidence. I'm not going to eat that one.

Right. If anything, it might be like more attractive because it's going to be more of a challenge.

Right, Exactly. And I think as well, the more High up you are in your career, the more you're actually going to be prone to being around, you know, narcissistic personality types, because a very high percentage of leaders within corporate are narcissists. So, you know, it made me realize, okay, this. There's something more that needs to be learned here. So this is when I went into the behavioral profiling.

And, yeah, it's just an absolute game changer. I mean, I think it's something like three weeks after I finished my first course of behavioral profiling, I ended up in a relationship. And I think for the first time, it was like, wow, I feel confident in knowing that this is the right person for me and also that I can trust them.

Yeah. Which is obviously everything. Right.

It certainly helps, doesn't it?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Awesome. Okay, so let's get into this. I don't want to waste any more time, girl. I think I first want to start off with online dating since we're in this pandemic. This pandemic, and so many people are online dating these days. And so let's talk about what we should be looking out for and what people's profiles or pictures says about them so that we can make sure that we're, you know, actually evaluating these people with as much information as possible.

Yes. Totally agree with this. So I think to start off with, before you even get on a dating site, understand what is it that you actually want in a relationship?

Yes.

Because sometimes, you know, if we're going into a supermarket, absolutely starving, the chocolate aisle is going to look great.

Yeah, exactly.

And, you know, we get home, eat the chocolate, feel like crap afterwards, and realize we've got nothing there for a good, healthy meal. So I think it's really important to have a look at the things that are important to you and have a look at what the deal breakers were for you in your previous relationships. So then when you're actually looking at a dating profile, you can see so much more.

So when we're having a look at.

Profile pictures on dating sites, we can see into someone's life. We can see someone's routine. We can see into what's important to them, because the things that they're showing you are things that are important to their life, Whether it's friends, family, whether it's traveling, whether it's those topless gym pics, we can see so much. And it's understanding, okay, is that type of person going to fit in your life?

I think this is something that people tend to overlook. It's almost like Oh, I can fit into their life and I can mold myself to be the right person for that person. But it's what we need to look at in a healthy way. Is, is this person right for me? Can they actually fit into my lifestyle? And yeah, is it going to. Do you have to compromise in any kind of way of being with that person? From what you can see the other side of what you can do, you can actually use a lot of the behavioral profiling and profiles of photograph of that person as well. So from things that they're wearing, the people that they're around, and you can actually get a sense of that person's personality and their dreams and fears. But that's a little bit more intricate. But the things that you can look out for is, you know, does. Is that person actually showing their face? For starters, they actually showing their eyes because we tend to see a lot of ones with their sunglasses on with their face looked away with lots of people around. So they're so, you know, you don't know which one's which. This can give you a bit of indication that this person's not quite emotionally open or confident within themselves to actually connect. So you're going to know that you're not going to be with that alpha male type of person. You're going to be with someone who kind of likes to blend into the crowd. Another thing that you can look out for as well is the emotional range of that person's face. So if you've got someone with like the resting bitch face all the way through their photos, you're going to know that that person's not going to be really there to actually emotionally connect. If you've got someone properly smiling and having fun, you're going to see that that person's, you know, open and happy and good to be around. And another great way of seeing if someone's actually got a genuine smile on their face is just cover up their nose and their mouth and you can see so much from that eyes if that person's actually smiling.

Right. Don't they say you have to have like creases or something around your eyes for it to be like a real smile versus just a fake one?

Oh, gosh. You can see.

The most easiest way to see if someone's got a genuine facial expression is if it's symmetrical. Because if we're doing a fake expression, our face will actually slightly distort it.

So half the face would be doing one thing and half the face would be doing another, and it would just be ever so Slight. And the other way that we can look at this as well is if we're in person and if the emotion just drops off the face instantly, you know, like when we give someone a smile that we don't really like, and then they suddenly turn away and, you know, we drop that smile.

Yes, I think we all know a little bit about that.

Oh, yes, we're all human. So this is kind of things that you can look out for as well. You know, seeing if someone's actually genuinely able to emotionally connect, which is obviously needed.

What does it say when there's, like, pictures of a lot of, like. Like pictures with friends or anything like that? Does it say something about the person? Does it not? Am I reading too much into this? What are your thoughts?

So if you've got someone who's around a lot of people all the time, whether it's like a football team, a rugby team, or just a group of people, it can actually show that this person's more of a team player. They're more extroverted. They love to be around people all the time. They're probably going to be more social and know their friends are going to be a big part of their life. So if you're someone who's introverted, who likes to stay in, who doesn't really like to go out that much, you're gonna. You're gonna struggle in those kind of scenarios. So it's seeing again, just, what's this person telling you about their life, and does it actually fit in with who you are and what you want?

One of the things that I see a lot is one thing that I have to temper with a lot of my clients is, like, this notion of. Of showing a lot of pictures where they're always traveling. Right. Like, I'm here in Bali, I'm here in Peru. I'm next to the Eiffel Tower. What does that say about someone?

Well, guess what? They enjoy doing.

Yes, obviously. But everyone likes to travel. So, like, what does that say more about, like, their personality and, like, kind of their mindset?

I think it. I think it all depends on the type of photo that they're taking as well.

So is it more like a look.

At me, like, look at me, I'm here. You know, is it kind of the status of being there and traveling, or.

Is it more about, like, they're connecting.

With lots of different people and they're doing a volunteer trip and they're helping people? It's. How's that person want to be seen? What's that person trying to show me from this photo, you know, is it that they're going to these grand, luxurious places? They're showing, look, I've got this wealth or I've got this status, is it, look, I'm helping people, I care about people. I'm doing this because I'm a good person. I. So it's just basically saying, okay, from this information I have here, what's the obvious story that's being shared in this?

Yeah, yeah. Well, obviously, like I was saying before, we are in a pandemic and oftentimes we're doing many more virtual dates and video video calls than before. So is there anything that we should be looking out for in these video dates so that we can best understand whether we should be going on a physical date with someone or not?

Yeah.

Okay. So there's a few things that we can look out for. So number one, how's the conversation flowing? You know, is it actually ping ponging or is it just about one person? Because if it's all about the other person, it's always going back to them. You've got this narcissistic tendency that could be coming up. The other thing as well that you can look out for is blink rate. So how engaged is that person in the conversation? So the average blink rate is 12 blinks per minute.

So every 10 seconds, roughly.

Yeah.

So when we're having someone blink more than that, it's showing that they're actually disengaged or they're highly stressed. Yeah.

So when we're having a look at something like this, we could be going, okay, well what's the topic of the conversation? Have you just brought up being excited, exclusive on the first date or something like that? Because that's gonna happen. Right.

Or, you know, is this person really engaged and is their blink rate really slow? And they're really hanging on every single word that you're saying, because that will give you an idea of how open that person's being. The other side as well is actually have a look at the body language. So what we tend to do and what most people tend to forget to do is baseline their body language.

What does that mean?

What I mean by this is having.

A look at what's their norm.

And it might take about five minutes to calibrate and just feel into it, but you'll notice certain patterns that they might do. They might have a weird speech impediment. For example, they might be doing something constantly with their arm, or, you know, it's having a look at what's their Normal behavior and the things that they do and then having a look at the deviations from that, which then we can read into. So deviations can show whether someone's lying. And we can also have a look at open body language when someone's being really open with you on that conversation.

So talk to me about this open body language, because I think that's what a lot of people obviously want to know about is someone being open. Right. I think a lot of people want open partners. So what should I be looking out for when I'm on a virtual date and we're having a conversation like what's open body language and what's not?

Yeah.

So, okay, when we're really interested in something and when we're talking to someone, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to lean in. We're going to want to know more. When we're leaning away and we're, you know, the backs are to the chair, it shows that we're disengaged. We're not actually interested in what's going on. The other side as well is fingers. Fingers are a great one. If we've got our hands extended. You know, you think about when you're talking with your hands, your hands and fingers are always extended. And that shows an open when you're talking. You know, vice versa. When we're having our hands going to ourselves or going into our body, we're showing that we're not comfortable. Another thing that we can look for is breathing. Are we breathing from the chest or we're breathing from the abdomen or. Another thing that we can look for as well is we've got a crucial arch arteries. So in our neck, in our arms, in our wrists. So what we tend to do, and this is like the, you know, the evolution of who we are in terms of protecting ourselves from things that are dangerous to us. We will hide those arteries. So we'll bring in it. We'll actually have. Our shoulders will be slightly up because we're protecting this. We'll actually be protecting our stomachs. So we'll put our hands in the way and we'll be tucking our arms in because we've got this major arteries going down our arms as well. So. So I'd be looking at, you know, how far are they extending their, you know, their arms away from their general self?

Yeah, yeah.

Have they got the lowered shoulders? You know, how. How confident are they showing themselves to be on that conversation? Because that will show the openness as well.

Because if we're nervous we're not going to be completely open, right?

Exactly. You talked about different kind of breathing, right? How would I know that based on just observing you? Are there different ways that people are breathing and that I can visually see, or is that something that I would have to understand physically?

In real life, you can hear it and you can. You can visually see it as well. So you can see it in the chest, you can see it in the shoulders. But even just listen to the breathing, you know, someone who's breathing from here, going to be.

Every time they're talking, you know, someone.

Who'S breathing from their stomach, they're going to have a smoothness, you're not going to hear it as much.

And what does that mean when they're breathing in their stomach versus breathing from their chest or their throat?

Stomach says that they're relaxed, they're open, they feel comfortable. When we're breathing from here, there's a stress indicator. We're looking to bring that oxygen because there's been an adrenaline spike. And this can be just because of either social anxiety. It can be from deception.

It can also be from, you know, slightly being aroused, you know, bringing in that oxygen. It's good to always have, like I said, that baseline, but also the context and the best way to read people is when you're reading people through.

You know, few things, you're actually reading in clusters rather than just individual things. So I've never known a good body language expert go, oh, well, they've just slowed their blink rate, so they must be really interested in just relying on just that alone. They'd be looking at how open is that body language are they leaning in? So we're looking for this story that we're creating to really understand the context of that person and that situation.

Now, obviously, my listeners on the podcast are not seeing you, but every time you lean in, you put your hand out and you actually rest it on there. Is there something to be said for what that means.

Or is it just general interest, just like leaning in is?

I think it comes down to kind of. Yeah, it comes down to the baseline of that person's behavior. So is that a normal thing for them to do? Is it just comfy? You know, but you can also have the other side of things, of depending on if you're resting your hand on your chin or whether you're actually putting it on your face, this can mean slightly different things as well. So if you're putting your hands in your face, you're covering and putting the barrier between you and the person whilst you're having that conversation. So that can actually say, well, that person's not being completely open with you because they're putting that barrier there. And you can do the same with drinks, for example. You know, you could put a drink in front of you, and another person you can put. If you're on a dinner date, you can put, you know, the menus in the middle of the table, you know, away from the other person. So we can actually look at barrier, you know, creating barriers.

In so many different ways, from hands to objects as well.

Yeah, well, this is a really good segue into physical dates. Right. And you've already given us some really good indication. So if there are boundaries, like either menus or glasses, beverages, then it shows that we're not being as open. Are there other things that we should be looking out for? When I'm like, let's say we're on a date and we're across the table from each other having dinner.

Mm.

As loads. So let's go a little bit into the deception side of things. So we can actually read better than a polygraph machine whether someone's lying or not. And people are like, why do you need to know if someone's lying? The big part of this is actually building up connection. And you're also. And you're also saying, okay, well, is this person someone I can trust? And, you know, I can make an informed decision from what's going on, rather than. Sometimes we can create stories in our heads and make up scenarios, and it stops us from being present. So when we're having a look at deception, there's a few things that we can look out for. So we've already talked a little bit about the increase in blink rate. So you're always reading clusters. So there's a few things that you can read from this. So bringing those fingers in can show that someone's not being completely open with you. You can also see if someone pulls their fingers, feet underneath their chair. If they're not leaning in and they've got their feet underneath their chair, that can also show that they're not being fully present or fully in that conversation and they're withdrawing. The other thing that we can look for as well is the mouth. So with the mouth, we can look for something called lip compression. And it's just literally when you just press your lips together. So we often see this at the end of a sentence, like, yeah, my job's going great. And we kind of get. We suddenly know that that person's holding Something back. And what we tend to find as well, from what Greg Hartley has shared, when someone does a lip compression at the end of a sentence, they're usually holding back something emotional, which is quite interesting.

Yeah. Trying to think what else. There's so many.

Yeah.

And also one thing that women tend to do is, you know, all people have long hair is if they get stressed, they feel the need to pull their hair away from the back of their neck. And it's a way of airing our neck and cooling down. So you can look, look that up for people as well. But there's. You'd literally read in clusters. So for example, if I said, oh, do you know what I'm looking for?

A long term relationship.

And you go, yeah, me too. And then suddenly, you know, you're attracting your feet and you've got kind of, you know, done the lip compression and you've sort of leaned away. You know, I'm gonna get that feeling of, okay, well, you've agreed, but your body's like, no, yeah, got it, got it.

Because they say that the body language is most of the language. 70, 80%. Would you agree with that or do.

You think that's like, yeah, it depends on who you're, who you're talking to. Because you've got the NLP clan that tend to talk about, you know, 7% words, 35%.

Tonality, and the rest of it being body language.

Yeah, I would, I would personally say it's almost.

I'd say it's half and half. I'd say, you know, body language, I'd say, is a good half of it because, you know, you can just look at someone in that you know exactly what they're thinking. And I think language also tells you so much as well, people's language patterns. You can see if someone's being, you know, lying from that. I mean, for example, I did not have sexual relations with that woman. That tells me absolutely volumes. And just the way that sentence has been put together, you know, you've got the did not, which is separate. You've also got that woman and what rather than that person's name, which tells me that distancing that person and also sexual relations, they're trying to make it sound less worse than it is or less severe than it is, which is a thing that people who are guilty tend to do rather than same sex. So we've got a lot of things going on in just that short sentence as well.

So you're saying Bill Clinton should have said, I didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky.

Yeah.

He would have been more believable.

Basically. Yes.

Okay, got it.

Quite interesting if you ever spoken to someone who's done something really, really bad in life.

And that they're guilty for. I'm trying to think of something that could be quite good.

Example, maybe cheating on someone.

Yeah. And you turn around and say, okay, so what do you think should happen to someone who's cheated on someone? And if you.

Someone.

If you're someone who's cheated, you probably go, well, they're probably feeling really low and probably not feeling appreciated. And, you know, maybe they just needed someone to talk to rather than, you know, if you. If you have never cheated, you know, rather than saying, well, I think they should have.

Their balls chopped off or something.

Exactly. No, I think this is really important because sometimes, you know, people will be having these conversations just kind of in general, and you hear that, and I think sometimes women will be like, okay, well, he's just talking in general. When in reality it can be actually very illuminating in terms of what relation he has to that specific situation.

Yes, yes, exactly.

So I think that's actually really useful. Awesome. I mean, obviously we're talking about people who haven't done such great things. The big, I think, huge, like, word out there is narcissist. Narcissist. Narcissist. So how can we tell that someone is a narcissist before we can even, like, really get truly involved with them? What are the things that we can see during the courtship process that may be able to help us evaluate them for who they truly are?

Yeah, I think something that's really important as well, because I know that the term narcissist has been thrown around so much. So when we're talking about narcissists, we're talking about clinically diagnosed narcissists. And this actually means that the empathy part of the brain is actually underdeveloped. And this is really, really key to understand and understanding how the narcissistic mind works. So, for example, because they don't connect with people.

They'Re going to see people as resources, like a pen or, you know, a book or something to be used rather than someone to actually connect with. So there's a few things that we can look out for. We can have a lookout for that empathy. So the way that we actually taught empathy from children, we actually mimic the faces of our parents.

Yes.

That's something that we do to really, you know, gain and connect with people. So narcissists, when we're having a conversation about something that's really sad or really happy. They probably won't match that facial expression. Or if they do, it will drop straight off the face. Like when we were saying about when we smile at a friend or someone that we don't really like.

Yeah. And they will drop or they'll change the topic really, really quick. You know, you can go, do you know what? I just lost my job today. And they turn around and go, oh, well, I just got pay rise. And it just changes. Okay. So they're not really going into that empathy side of things. The other side of things as well is have a look at the context of the conversation. Is it constantly for them to big themselves up and big up their status in some sort of way? There's two ways of doing this. Okay. Because you have the. Yeah, basically two different types of narcissists. So you have the ones that are saying, oh, I'm so amazing, I got to hang around with this celebrity and I've done this and I'm so amazing and I've got this car and they need to do it all that way. Or you have a type of narcissist that will turn around and go, I did all this for people. I managed to help so and so with their shopping today. I just feel like a really bad person. Like I just haven't done enough for that person. And they're looking for that compliment and looking for that build up as well. So there's actually two types of narcissists and it's just looking at, are they looking for you to build them up or appreciate them, you know, in that kind of way? So that's really, really important to know. The other thing as well is can that person accept the answer no. And this is so, so important to realize. And it doesn't have to be, you know, saying no to someone directly. It can be them trying to control a situation in any kind of way. So for example, I'll go into sort of a coaching context. When I work with people, get people to book a call with me through lingq. And I've had people reach out to me and say, okay, can I work with you? Yes, that's absolutely fine. Book through the link. And if they are narcissist, I can always guarantee they'll say, well, can you call me in 10 minutes? Or can you call me this time tomorrow? Rather than booking through the link. And it's them looking to control that situation. I don't work with those people because it just shows that they're not coachable. I'm not going to benefit. They're not going to benefit. But this is.

They need to do things their way.

Yeah. And this is the type of things that you can see in a dating context as well. You know, if you're saying, I'd love to go here, and they go, well, no, I don't want to go there. Let's go here instead. You know, it's just them controlling the situation for the sake of controlling the situation. So that's a really important, huge red flag to look out for. I think it's one of the main ones that the Gift of Fear talks about in their book. Definitely check out that book if you have a chance to.

We'll put that in the show notes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fantastic book. But he does talk about anyone who does not accept the word no. You know, huge red flag. Get out.

Out. Get. He's out. Okay, awesome. Let's talk about this notion of lying versus not. How can we. Maybe you've already kind of spoken to some of these things already, but how can we figure out if someone is lying or not?

Yeah. So have a look at the context of the conversation and look at what you want to find out. And I think when you're in the midst of trying to understand if someone's being truthful or not, feel free to ask a few questions. So, for example, someone who's lying about a situation, ask them to tell you the situation backwards because they won't be able to do it. So. Exactly. For example, if there's a night out and you're thinking, oh, they got home a bit late, get them to ask and tell you the whole story of what happened, but backwards. And someone who's lying or really struggled to be able to do that. Have a look for the stress indicators that we've talked about. The high blink rate, the breathing changes, the hands moving in, they're also protecting the arteries. Have a look at those when you're talking. So what you're looking for when you're in those situations is groups of three. If you read in three lots of body language, you're going to have a real clear read of whether that person's lying or not. So, for example, if you've seen the breathing rate go up, the eye, the blink rates go up, and also that they're touching their face. That can be a huge, huge indicator that that person's not being completely truthful with you.

Yeah, I love that. Okay. So obviously, I think a lot of people out there are wanting to understand exactly how do we know if someone is attracted to us or not? So how can we. Right. Because I think all of us have a little bit of narcissism inside of us.

Oh, gosh, yes.

So how can we figure that out? Girl?

Yes. There's a few things. So we can actually have a look at the pupil dilating.

So the black part of our eyes just expanding.

We also look at something called wing dilation. So this is where our nose will actually flare. And this is because we're taking in more oxygen, because they're just basically having a huge adrenaline spike and ready to pounce on someone, basically, which is a good one to look out for. Also, we're looking for a torso tilt, so that person leaning into you in some sort of way. So usually their torso will kind of lean into you or their feet will be extended out to you as well.

And that was. I will just say that was my claim to fame. When I was in the club and I was with my friends, I always knew who was attracted to me based on where their feet were. I would never really look at their face except for. To see if I was attracted to them, but I would look at their feet and know, and that would be the person I would approach. Right. So when you are in rooms, look at the feet, ladies, and understand who's really checking for you. Even if they're not looking at you directly, their attention and their energy is going to be toward you based on the feed. And then you will know if you are attracted to them, if you don't, if you're not, and if so, how to give them the green light. I love that. I think it's like, for me, it was key. It was a thing where I was able to tell my friends, okay, this guy is really into you. Like, do you want to talk to him or not? And I would connect them. So I love that you mentioned this, because if you weren't going to mention it, I definitely was. Because for me, this is, like the thing. For me, it was 95% sure.

It's brilliant. Yeah. It's so simple and so easy to use. I think that's the nice thing about it, you know, when you've got something powerful like that to use.

Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. And any more tips? That's just like my favorite one, so I, like, had to go off of it.

Another one that you can tend to do as well is the eyebrow flash. So if you want to see if someone's interested in you, just raise your eyebrows at them. And if they raise them back, you know, that they're kind of interested. So it can just be a simple. And what this is telling people when you're raising your eyebrows, is that I'm safe to be around. I'm not a threat.

I'm, you know, I'm some.

I recognize you. And that's kind of the thing that we put out. So when it feels easy to talk to someone, that's usually why.

Yeah, I love that. That's so good. I absolutely love it. Love it, love it, love it, love it.

You know, when I'm talking with my clients, one of the things that I talk to them about is this notion of safety. Right. Especially as women. Right. I think it's important to feel safe in your relationship, in your partnership. And so what are some of the things that we can look out for when it comes to this, like, level of trustworthiness and safety?

Yeah, I think one of the most important things to.

Notice is, do you have a voice? And I think, you know, you know, if you're around someone who's, you know, who can respect you, who actually adores you, is if you actually are able to have a voice in that relationship. So are they actually checking in with you? Are they asking you, what do you think? Or is there anything that you need? Are they being attentive? Or are you walking on eggshells? Because the moment that you feel like you can't be yourself and that you can't be open, get out. Because it's not a good place to stay in for the long term.

Yeah, definitely. Are there specific things that people can observe to even give us a hint about whether this person might not be trustworthy or safe?

I think it'll kind of go back to the lying aspect and also even the narcissistic traits. I think, as well, you know, when we're going into a relationship and we're going into something that's good, we're also gonna feel it. I think, you know, it's having. It's feeling into that gut feeling of, okay, if something's not right, your body's telling you, so listen to it. But what we tend to find is the problems that tend to come up from this is from childhood. It's when we've turned around to our parents and gone, oh, do you know what? I don't really like Uncle Sam. And your mum turns around to you and goes, I'll just give him a hug. Yeah, don't be so stupid. Yeah, give my hug. His family, you know, and we. We learn from a very young age to suppress what we're feeling.

Yeah, this is.

This turns out to be when we're in the dating scenario of do you know what? I'm really not sure about him, but maybe I should just give it, you know, give it a little bit longer and just see where it goes and reason it out. And it's like, no, you're having that physical. Yeah, you have that physical response. Bloody trust it. Because it's there for a reason. So, yeah, I think that's really important as well.

Very cool. Very cool. Now, as we're talking about all of this, I always ask all of my guests how they got their guys. So, Lily, girl, you're gonna have to tell me how you got your guy. And I'm sure that it had some of this voodoo magic associated with it. Tell us everything.

So we actually met on a hypnotherapy course. So he was there showing off, and I was there learning. And the funny thing is, nothing really happened for a good year. We just stayed as really good friends. We were talking to each other about, you know, dating other people and all sorts.

And you guys were in the same city?

No, we're in separate cities. I used to live about two and a half hours away from each other.

Okay.

But just kept in really good contact, you know, it was kind of those relationships you'd have, you know, a three hour phone call, but just as friends, which is really interesting.

And, yeah, we kind of ended up meeting again a year, you know, a year later where we'd done loads of personal development separately and had also done a lot of the Chase Hughes behavioral profiling courses. And we just. Yeah, I think it was three weeks after one of Chase's courses. We ended up in a relationship together. And, yeah, everything just sort of hit off from there. We just noticed that we were both compatible. We noticed that we were both, you know, liked each other. We also had this thing of like, you know, we wanted to ensure, you know, whatever happened, we knew that our friendship would always come first. So we always had that basis there, which was just gorgeous.

So how did we get from we're friends to now we're in a relationship? Right. Because I think there are a ton of people out there that are friends with people. We all have that relationship, right, with someone that is, like, such a good friend. And sometimes either one or both of the parties might feel. I get this question all the time.

This is why I ask it.

I'm kind of interested, but I don't know how to get there. I don't know how to bring that up. So how did it come to a surface for you all?

We ended up just having, like, a really great conversation. We were talking about relationships in general. We were talking about how great we were getting on.

And, yeah, it was kind of like.

Just having that open discussion of actually how we felt about each other, and it was making that conscious choice about, okay, do we both want this to be a relationship or do we want to focus on our friendship? I think it always takes two people.

You know, it's never about just one.

Person wanting it and the other person just goes in for the ride. It's being both committed, but also being both grown up enough to have that conversation and to work together. Because I think one of the things that we said from the very beginning is that we would always have each other's best interests at heart, which, yeah, really helped in our relationship.

And how long have you guys been together?

Gosh, where we. April. So coming up, two years in August.

Wow. Awesome. Well, congrats on that. That's amazing. Now, for any of my listeners that need to start loving with intelligence, how can they connect with you?

Yes, they can. Find me on lovewithintelligence.com We've got loads of free trainings, blogs. We've got a Facebook community as well. We're on Instagram and YouTube as well.

Awesome. Lily, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so illuminating, I can't even tell you.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I've had such a great time.

So thank you.

Thank you. All right, bye.

Bye.