Quit Like A Winner With Mandy Tang

Hey, girl. Welcome to the get yout Guy coaching podcast. My name is Anwar White, but you can just call me your own personal dating and relationship coach. Each week, you'll hear actionable advice, tips, and strategies that you can implement in your own love life. I'm talking about healing your heart, dating effectively, and understanding men so that you can. You guessed it. Get your guy. Are you ready to level up your love life? All right, let's go.

I never felt the way I do without anyone but you.

Hello, hello, hello, my loves. Thank you so much for joining the get your Guy coaching podcast. I have a very special guest and friend and former classmate of mine here on the podcast today. Her name is Mandy Tang, and we are so happy that you're here, honey. She is a career coach. She will get your professional life in order to from resume to understanding transitions, to everything. And we're here to talk about how to quit. Mandy, thank you so much for being here, girl.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you. I'm such a fan.

So Mandy and I went to business school together, and we were, I guess you could say, maybe a little bit different than all of the finance bros. All of the 6.5Blue Eye Trust Fund.

Finance Bros. 65 Blue Eyes Trust. Yeah, totally. So we were. We were like the personality hires. We were.

Yes, girl, that. Tell the beautiful listeners what you do and why. You're amazing.

Okay, so I am a career coach, and I work with people to help guide them through their work transitions. So I think that the kind of angle that I take is I help on the sort of emotional stuff that comes up with your career and with your identity with work. And I like to describe it as, like, the path of the wounded healer. It's like, whatever was the thing that hurt you becomes your superpower. And I started out as, like, a traditional coach. Like, I would help people with their resumes and their LinkedIn and, like, kind of the tactical stuff.

Right.

And then as I would, like, sit with someone and do their resume, I'd be like, okay, so tell me about this job. And then they would be like. They'd get emotional, they'd get teary or they'd get choked up. And I realized that I was actually helping to metabolize some of this stuck energy.

Yeah.

With, like, some, you know, trauma that happened in the workplace that they couldn't even get past to just update their resume and make it look cute, you know? So as I did that, more and more, I realized, you know what? There's something here with the deeper coaching and the deeper Healing in our relationship with work.

Yes. So it's interesting. I know some people are like, well, why is she on here? No shade. But last week, I was actually talking with my clients about how your career, your job becomes your relationship, your boyfriend until you get one. And it was. Was, as you were pointing it out, something that was very emotional. And I know that how you show up in your job is actually the same way that you're going to show up in relationships. So some of the things that you were just saying around, like wanting to feel valued, seen, is like, very much how we might show up in our relationships, right? And maybe feeling like we have to perform or do certain things. And this. This episode is all about quitting, or most of it is about quitting. Because I know that similar to dating, you know, to find success, you kind of have to quit and quit a lot in a variety of different ways. And so I want to make sure that we're sharing with the ladies kind of how to do this. But talk to me about, like, what. Oops. Talk to me about what patterns you see, your clients and how they're showing up in the workplace.

I'll tell you about kind of like a general thing that I see. So people.

Graduate from school, right? And they are used to an external rubric where it's like, an A is good, B is okay. You know, there is a clear way of measuring your worth. And so I come from an immigrant family, and I don't know about you, but.

My parents were, like, obsessed with brands. Like, my mom, if she found, like, a Polo Ralph Lauren at a discount store, she would be like, oh, my God, this is amazing. You know?

Totally.

And especially, like, Asians, they're, like, obsessed with brands. Like, we love a Gucci. We love a Prada.

Right? Girl blacks, too. Girl blacks too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, everyone, really. But yes.

Yeah.

So what happens is the same way that a parent is going to be like, ooh, ooh, Gucci.

Nice.

Right? It happens with schools, and it happens with companies, right? So it's like, oh, did you hear so and so's daughter went to Yale? Oh, did you hear? So and so son works at Goldman Sachs. Like, so brands take on a kind of shiny quality. So. So the same way that you would.

Want to get into a good school to make your parents proud is the same way that you're going to try and go work at Google or BCG or McKinsey or one of these fancy companies, because it's a gold star.

Right?

Right. And so we kind of chase These gold stars. And once you get into the corporate world, first off, the reality is very different from the gold star that we think it's going to. It doesn't feel like that.

Right.

You know.

But then once you get there.

You'Re just so used to this external map to give you a sense of worth, to give you a sense of identity. Like, oh, I went to an Ivy League school and I work at this fancy place, and so therefore I am important, I am worthy. Right. So we're getting our sense of worth from these companies and from this sense of prestige.

Yeah.

And it can get really toxic. Right. So. So what happens is that's kind of how we're set up. And we're always looking for this external validation. And then.

Once we get to the workplace, this is where the kind of unhealthy patterns begin. Because we're so hungry for that pat on the head. We're so hungry to be told, oh my gosh, you're in the top 10%. You're so amazing. We've never seen an associate like you, like, thank you for going AB and beyond. Like, all those little phrases and pats on the head. We live for.

That. We start putting the company ahead of ourselves. So we do things like, we spend too much time at work. We're checking our email 24 7. We are logging in after dinner, after we put the kids to bed. I mean, we just start to prioritize the company over everything. Why? Because it's the thing that gives us value.

It gives us the pat on the head, which is exactly the same thing that we're doing in our relationships, or many of us maybe have a pattern of doing in our relationships that we're doing way too damn much. We're texting too much, we're calling too much, we're working too hard, we're planning the dates, we're paying for dates. We're doing everything so that we can get a pat on the head, a pat on the back, get the attention that we want and that we need, that maybe we need to give to ourselves. Yeah.

Yes. The attention, the affirmation, the validation that we look for. I always say to my client, it's so funny. I always use dating analogies when I'm like, talking to my clients, but I'm always like, you're looking for love in all the wrong places. If you think some VP of capital markets is going to make you feel good, think again. You know what I mean? If you think that sacrificing all of your time and your family Time and your personal time.

For a job in marketing. I mean, it's just not. We're looking for love in all the wrong places.

Yeah, definitely. Now, you talked about your Asian background and you know that this is a podcast for, well, for all women, but centering the, the experience of women of color specifically. One of the things that I think is really tough is a lot of like the microaggressions and some of the gaslighting that sometimes happens in the workplace that often can happen in your dating life as well. And so I guess my question for you because really I want us to figure out how, how do we quit the things that aren't necessarily serving us? How do you, what do you tell your clients about that? Like, how do we manage that? Should we, should we be going to hr? Like, what do you think we should be doing here?

I'll tell you a pattern that I see and then I'll talk a little bit about hr. So the pattern that I see is.

Okay, again, I'll talk about it from the Asian immigrant perspective, right? So in our households, there's a very strict hierarchy.

And this is just handed down from centuries of patriarchy and like male dominated societies, Right? But like, you know, I love my parents, but they, you know, there's a hierarchy. It's like if you even walk into a restaurant, it's dad walks first, then mom, then brother, then me, because I'm the youngest daughter, right? So even these little things, you are sort of taught about the hierarchy. And part of that, especially as you're growing up, is you are taught to be helpful and you are taught to be seen but not heard, of course.

Right?

Be docile, be good, be nice, right? So we're, we're taught these things.

You know, the stereotypical Asian woman is someone who's quiet and really good at math, right? So the idea that you would speak up and speak out and call people out on their BS and stand up for yourself is actually very opposite to how we were raised. You know that when I work with Asian women who I'm coaching, the number one thing, they're always like, my boss is always giving me feedback that I need to speak up. But it's like, oh, really? Because your entire childhood you were taught.

To be quiet, right?

And all of a sudden we come to corporate and we're supposed to be like little cheerleaders in the workplace, like vocalizing every opinion. So I say this to kind of set the stage and say so that when microaggressions happen, because they will and they do. Right. I think a lot of us internalize it. A lot of us just say.

Like, it's not natural to call someone out on that.

Right, Right.

But what happens is if you. If you just remain silent in the workplace and you just take it and take it and take it, what happens is that you. You get burnt out. Right. You start to become, and for good reason, pretty skeptical. You walk into the office and you're like, what's even the point? Like, I hate this place, but I have to be here. You get. You get into this sort of cycle of feeling stuck. Right? So something that I've been coaching my clients on is just to say something in the moment. And there's a fine line because I also don't believe in doing the emotional labor for everybody. Like, I'm not here to educate you on all the ways that you are ignorant, like, sorry, you know, but at the same time, it's like, if you don't say your piece or at least express your discomfort, you're going to take that home and you're going to ruminate on that all night. You're like, why did that person say that thing? I feel so uncomfy. Like, I don't like this. And so I think my advice would be connecting whatever reaction you have, the. That pain, that zing, that feeling of like, oh, like, what did they mean by that? You know, connecting that to an action, to even just something in the moment. Like, let's say microaggression happens in the moment. Just saying, oh, I'm sorry, what did you mean by that?

Yeah, you know, or just saying. Or just saying, I don't know. That makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable.

This, this is the language that I try to teach my clients. Right. That we have to bring some feelings to it. And it's actually really interesting that you talk about the kind of. The Asian experience, because it's actually quite. Some of black experience is actually quite similar as well. But I think that a lot of black women are more outspoken because there's so much gaslighting and microaggressions and macroaggressions that are happening on a daily basis that they're actually exploding. And that's why they're sharing their feelings instead of expressing the boundaries when it comes up to your point, to be able to manage some of these things. But I totally agree with you. We do need to say something, I think, in the moment because that is a part of kind of quitting and letting. And really what I'm. When we talk about quitting in this episode. I want you to hear boundary. Right. I want you to hear, no, this. This doesn't work for me. So I love the language of this makes me feel uncomfortable. Or I didn't like how that landed or I didn't like how that made me feel. Right. Because when we censor the feelings, that's hard to debate. Right. Versus I think a lot of women or a lot of individuals will say, you didn't. You did this or you did that. Right. And you want to come from, like, an intellectual place and you want to, like, go back and forth, debate and argue about the merits or whether it's right or wrong versus how it made you feel. So I love that, like, language around just sharing that in the moment and putting it back on them to. To make it make it right again, especially as someone of color, because now you're. We're. We're using some of the power that we have and putting it back on them.

Yeah.

Do you think we should go to hr?

Okay, so.

And I say this with love, and I say this. Having a lot of good friends who work in hr, okay. HR is not your friend. They're not your friend. HR is a function that at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, they are there to protect the interests of the company. They're not your therapist. They're not your. They're not your coach. It's actually not a confidential space. Like, here's what I say. I'm like, okay, you can go to hr, but just know that that means you've gone to everybody.

So what you're telling me is that HR is kind of like calling the police for people of 20. Sometimes it's not. Doesn't, like, kind of. It's necessary, but sometimes you still feel really uncomfortable because they might not be fully on your side.

That is the perfect analogy. And I think that sometimes people go to HR because they feel, again, this is the parental energy. Right. Well, let me just tell Mom. Maybe she'll make it better.

That's right. That's it.

Like, no, they're actually not there to do that. And. And they actually have a corporate responsibility. If you come to them with information, sensitive, important information, they have a duty to report that.

Yeah.

Because they. They're not going to just be your counselor unless you have a very special relationship with them. And they say, this is confidential. I'm coming here as your friend, not as hr. Then even then, I'm like, tread lightly. But I think that sometimes people go thinking, oh, HR is going to Help me mediate and remedy the situation. And hr, like all parts of corporate America, are risk averse. They're not trying to get into some trouble by getting into some relationship with you and counseling you.

Right.

They're trying to cover their ass. So be careful.

Yeah.

Have your, have your stuff ready. Know what you want to get out of it. And also know that when you go to hr, I mean, you are kind of.

It is a formal conversation, believe me, that everything you say will be written down, will be. You know what I mean? There's nothing casual about it.

So what you're telling me is that HR is given tmz.

That everybody's going to know your business potentially, Right?

Like, hey, everybody, I just like to announce that I'm having an issue with my boss, thank you very much. Like, if you think that HR is not immediately going to turn around and go tell your boss exactly what you said, they will. That's their job.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people don't understand that. So I'm glad that we're having this conversation. Okay, so let's talk about quitting, right? Because I actually think that half of the listeners on here probably need to quit their jobs and probably quit the guys that they're talking to. But sometimes there's like an aversion to it, right? And so why do you think that, like people are not quitting? Why and why do you think that quitting is so important?

Okay, so two things. I think that quitting is extremely important because it is a declaration of your boundary and it is you saying, I am willing to take a risk and leave rather than put up with this anymore. Okay? So that's reason number one. Number two is that.

The reason people don't quit is it's scary. The devil, you know, is better than, you know, there's a lot of fear, right? So, okay, let's take an ordinary, ordinary situation would be you have another job lined up. I wouldn't really call that quitting. I would call that leaving for another job. And that's sort of normal and I highly encourage that as well.

But to, if, if your situation at work is getting to a point where you are having to come home and recover for more than two hours, right? If you're crying multiple times a week, if you, if your friends and family are like, oh, again, like, there you told this story so many. I mean, this is just like dating, right? Your friends are like, okay, girl, like, leave him already treating you like that, right? You know, and if. So these are some of the symptoms. If you're experiencing these symptoms, you probably should have an exit plan.

Yeah.

You know, and. And the reason that people don't is because it's, It's. Here's what I'll say. When you're in a toxic situation where people are asserting their authority over you and you feel powerless, it strips you of your creativity, creative thinking. It strips you of your ability to think of you in a different, better situation. It's like an abusive relationship. You know what I mean?

Like, totally.

You can't think straight. You cannot imagine what life could be, not in this horror show. And so you. It's fight or flight. You freeze.

Yeah, definitely.

I don't know what to do. I'm so beat down, I can't leave. Plus, their shame in quitting, especially, I mean, just. Again, what.

Let's talk about that. Especially as someone of color, right? I think that there's, like, it's also multifaceted in that, like, one, there may already be some money wounds. And so, like, quitting can, like, mean, oh, my God, I'm going to be homeless and die, right? That, like, that's where the head goes to. But also, like, for many of us who are first generation people who went to college and like, everyone is like, looking to us as like, to be the beacon of hope, to be the leader of the family. And so when you quit a job, like, you're like bringing on your entire family every time you go to a job. And it can feel like this pressure that I don't think a lot of people talk about.

Yes, exactly. So because we're often the generation of firsts, right? First person to go to this type of school, first person to work at a Fortune 100 company. And we take such pride in that because our entire family, I mean, think about it, like from my Asian experience, like, my parents ran away from wars. You know what I mean? Like, they, they have, they have scarcity mindset. Not as a joke, but just because things were really scarce at one point. You know what I mean? You come when you come from nothing or when you're first generation. Like, your parents save plastic bags and have old chicken in the freezer for a reason.

Girls, touch of packets, girl. All of it.

The amount of ketchup packets, honey packets, barbecue. I'm like, mom, you don't even eat barbecue. Just in case, you know, everything is this, is this. What if the war, what if there's another war? What if there's an invasion? Like, it is this mindset. And so this idea, it's the parent. The parental voice is, you're spoiled if you think that. Look how hard we worked. Look how many ketchup packets we saved.

This is it.

How dare you. And I honor that. You know what I mean? Like, that's such a part of who we are. And also it holds us back because it keeps us in situations that no longer serve us. And we have to believe in ourselves and believe that we can do better, and we. We can't. Like, it is risky. And I do want to leave because I value my mental health and I know that I'm going to find something better. And it's. It's the same as, like, I'd rather be. People are just scared to be single. You know what I mean? But it's like, be single for a while. It's okay.

I love this so much because I just think it's. It's when you're able to do this, and I know it's really hard that you are breaking generational curses, right? And you are able to sit in your own agency and be able to say, that's not acceptable. I'm not taking that. And for many of us, you know, who grew up seeing our mothers maybe not treated in the best way, and she stuck around and she said, this is the best that I'm going to do, and that's okay for you to say, no, that I'm not going to do it breaks curses. And people are observing and seeing what you're doing, and because you will hold a part of a leadership of a family, they will be inspired and motivated to do the same thing. And so if there's anything that I want people to take away from this episode.