Gut Health, Stress & Sleep: The Truth About Supplements and Real Detox with Dr. Deanna Minich

We live in an imperfect world with environmental contaminants and through the aging process, our needs go up. So it's like the best of all intentions. Sometimes we're just going to fall short. So it's just where we're at with dietary supplements.

Hey, everybody, thanks so much for tuning in the first optimal podcast. Really glad you're here. Really excited to jump into some content today with Deanna Minick. And she is going to be diving into all kinds of, all kinds of fun things that are not my area of expertise. But I'm excited, as often happens with our guests, but I'm excited to have her on. She's a PhD, well researched in clinical, nutrition, functional medicine, and I'm sure a bunch of other things that she'll be able to fill us in on today. So thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you joining us.

Thanks for having me, Joe. I'm curious to see where our conversation is going to go. It sounds like we're going to cover a lot of different topics.

As am I. As am I. So, yeah, I thought just for the audience out there, just to set things up a little bit, can you talk a little bit about your journey getting into this space? Obviously being an expert, going through, you know, PhD course and multiple other advanced certification trainings. Like, what was your inspiration to do that and can you walk us through that journey?

Yes, I would say it started when I was very young. I had a health conscious mother in the 1970s and she turned me on to nutrition, what we were eating, how we were living. And even there was kind of this connection between food and faith. So she got really into her faith, she got really into nutrition. And I think that that set the stage for me just to be curious about my food and what I was taking in. So fast forward to when I was a teenager, early 20s, I really like science. I decided to go to college and study biology. I was pre med. I thought I was going to go the path of the medical doctor route, go to med school. I was all set to take all of the different entrance exams and then I realized that I was probably not as excited about that. Like I was around being more preventative with health and healing. So I decided to go to grad school. So I went to grad school. I got a master's, I got a PhD. I then went into the food industry. I then went into the dietary supplement industry, started writing books. So that that's it in a nutshell.

Sure. You talk, you mentioned something there too in your journey. Can you talk a little bit about the. I'm sure at a later stage here, we'll. We'll get into the weeds a little bit more on it. But, like, the supplement industry, what was your introduction to that and what. What pulled you in that direction?

You know, that was so interesting. So I was in a large Fortune 100 food industry, and then I became curious about supplements because I went into clinical practice while I was working at the food company. So I started to, again, get into health, and just realizing that it was multifaceted, and I started moonlighting and kind of on weekends, I would start to work at a clinic. And I. At this clinic, I worked with a psychiatrist, a chiropractor, and it was me. And I noticed that the chiropractor was using supplements, which, you know, in school, I didn't really get a lot of training on supplements. I mean, keep in mind, I went to school in the 1990s, and it was all about, you know, food. And at that time, it was all about functional foods, like adding lutein to prune juice and talking about eye health. But there really wasn't this groundswell of dietary supplements in quite the same way that we see today. So. So at that time, I was kind of curious. They were using a lot of Metagenics products. And then Greg Peterson, who is a rep for the Metagenics line of products through nutradyne, he basically said, deanna, I think you need to go see a seminar with Jeff Bland. I think you would really like him. And so I didn't even know who Jeff Bland was. I went to go see a seminar from Jeff Bland. Jeff Bland, for those of you listening, is the father of functional medicine. Quite a charismatic speaker, synthesizer of information. And it was like, whoa, what. What just happened that was so fascinating? So. So then I realized that Jeff Bland was connected to a company, to Metagenics, and he also had this Healthcom company that he had started. And so in 2003, I decided, hey, I think I'm gonna go work with Jeff Bland. So I was on the research and development team with Dr. Bland and the other scientists there. Back in May 2003 is when I started. And I was there for, like, 10 years. So I really got to know the supplement industry. I came in as a formulator and then left the company as vice president of scientific affairs. So I did a lot of education. I worked in the clinic. I did continue to help to formulate products. I had a better understanding of quality control measures of supplements. You know, being that the R and D facility was Pretty close to the manufacturing facility. So, you know, you can kind of get a window into what that was about. And I was also doing a lot of education for health practitioners, so I would go out and educate doctors on supplements, how to use supplements, and, you know, because we don't get a lot of that as part of training. Right?

Yeah. And I'm curious, is there a lane, if you will, of supplement products that maybe you leaned into a little bit more than others? Was there a certain type of application of supplements or.

I would say detoxification would be one of those areas. And I know that we're going to talk about that. So it's kind of interesting because Dr. Bland created this whole, I would say, platform of nutritional detoxification, which was connected to looking at how we could take in certain foods or certain actives, and then that would change the output of certain things in our body that would be considered toxic. So he had published a number of papers in the mid-1990s on this, looking at a medical food, looking at a dietary program. So I would say I kind of continued on in that same vein of research where we were looking at certain powdered proteins and other powdered food products to help to, I would say, balance the pathways of detoxification, primarily in the liver. So. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of. But, you know, it wasn't limited to detoxification because at the time, you know, there were hundreds of products in the suite. But I would say where I published and where I did some clinical work was definitely in the area of metabolic detoxification.

Yeah, I want to get into that detoxification, but as a bridge, if you will, is kind of going into that. I'm curious with your experience. So I used to. I owned a supplement company for a while myself. It was a different application, but I learned a lot. But my question is, what are some things out there for people when they're looking at a good, like, quality supplement or what were maybe some. Maybe some shocking things you found out about the industry when you got into. I know. At least that's how I'd phrase it. I'd phrase it if someone was asking me, because there are some things I was shocked by, and then there was other things that were really good. I'm just curious, you know, how did you navigate that, and how can one ensure they're getting a good quality product from a trusted source?

Well, I would say if you are not intimate with the dietary supplement industry or you're not a healthcare practitioner, probably one of the better Things to do would be to go through your healthcare practice practitioner. And the reason why is because there are certain supplements that are in the health practitioner channel, then there are certain things that are just online and you can buy all over the place. So one of the features that would make a more reputable company is that they are what is referred to as cgmp Certified Good manufacturing practices. So they have third party oversight of what they're doing. They could be subject to audits by the fda. So things have to be spick and span inside that manufacturing facility. They have to be hitting label claim, they have to be having third party verification of the raw materials. They're looking at the stability over time and then making sure that the expiration dates are fitting that. So there's so many different aspects. But if you just look at some CGMP and if a company is saying that they follow those practices and that they are cgmp, that's a good sign. That's one level of, I would say to look at quality. What I was surprised by though, I just want to get at that question is that many times we hear that supplements are unregulated and I don't think that that's necessarily true. I think that a supplement facts label and the claims that a supplement makes is very regulated and so there is some oversight there. So I think that there's some misconception that oh, supplements are just, you know, made in somebody's garage and you know, they're just putting these things together. But the thing is that you do have a broad spectrum of different companies within that space which may or may not be adhering to good quality practices.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that because it was, I recall Amazon changed their policies a little over a year. No, geez. Was that two years ago they actually had their own lab that you had to send it to because there was some imposters with third party testing. And I found that really interesting because we had a bunch of products on Amazon and all of a sudden you must go and you know, get these because we are a newer brand. And it was like, oh. And we reached out to our manufacturer and they said no, yeah, ours are for whatever reason, third, they're saying you have to go through this specific one because they had, I don't know, 100, 150 clients on Amazon. They all experienced same thing. So it was nice to get that bill and have to go through that process. But, but, but nonetheless it's still, I did feel like it cleared the path more for if there were Some imposters on there in our space that it's like, all right, well, at least we know we're doing the right steps. But it sounds like you had internal manufacturing in that experience.

Yes. So instead of a third party, where you have a contract lab, you know, this was all done in house, so to speak. So the company was vertically integrated where, well, they were sourcing raw materials from different locations, but then they would bring them together in the manufacturing facility and then do all the quality control measures there in house. So, yeah, I think that that also makes a difference, you know, if we have oversight of all of the different tasks, I think that makes for just more responsibility and kind of looking at the measures involved in each and every.

Yeah, and I want to get to detox, but I think one last thing out there because we have a lot of people that listen in that are, you know, obviously we're. This is going to be on social media and they're seeing things on social media. Not all of it's inherently bad. But I do think looking at who's on that panel you mentioned, you know, sounds like a heavy, scientific, well educated team of PhDs, you know, in that are putting their name behind it and they own the manufacturing. Like the other certifications are important, of course, but I think that also in my mind at least puts a little bit more of the trust factor there versus, you know, fitness guru xyz, who best of intentions hires third party manufacturer that they have no oversight over. And then they're dealing with that. And I may be speaking of that from personal experience. When I tested some first rounds of some testing was like, this isn't what we ordered. So that was grateful that we did that before putting out a product to our clientele that, you know, you learn, you learn very quickly. And at least in my experience, because it was initially third party manufacturing that we didn't have the control over. So there's a lot of trust there.

Well, and you mentioned a good point about the scientific team or who is actually whose brains. Brain trust is actually going into the making of the product. And the other thing I would say is that many products on the market and many supplements, what they do is there are raw materials that are brought in and then off. Often they use borrowed science in order to support the claim on the product. But the actual product itself in that format is not actually tested. It's just leveraging what has been done historically. Right. And that's not, I mean, that's one level of evidence, but then a higher tier level of evidence is actually doing clinical testing on the actual product.

Yeah.

Right. So, and especially, I mean, I see this with, let's just go into menopause real quick because there are so many women's health products. We know that women are really keyed into supplements. They're looking for quick solutions. And so you go to the store and it's just like all of these different products that are sitting on the shelves, it's like, how do you know really which one to pick?

Right.

So unless you're looking at quality and you're looking at the actual science, it becomes difficult in the moment to make that decision.

Yeah. And I think, and tell me if you've seen this, but I see this a lot is there's the, the, what do I, how do I want to phrase it? Like the addition myth or the, the fuzzy math around the phantom edition of a product like these, this, this one individual study, this one individual ingredient increased X, Y and Z by 13%. This one again, individual net study, 23%. This one 17. They all equal 40%. Like, you know what I mean? Like where they take them in individual studies and they put it together in that bottle and then they make a claim that it's, you can add them all up and it's like, that's not how the body works. That's not how it was studied. So I think that's a great point about if you're going to use a product, look at is it is the actual product, the way it's formulated. And that's where someone like yourself with a PhD dedicating your life to this stuff, like is designing those things over and over. And it's not like you woke up in the morning and said, I think these three things would be good because I saw it on TikTok. You know, it's like this is, you know, pretty in depth work you're doing to put those things together. So I appreciate you pointing that out.

Well, the other point, Joe, is that there could be things that you're putting together or that are in a supplement that are actually contra. Being contraindicated for that actual kind of the efficacy or it's interacting in such a way that is reducing the therapeutic benefit. So I'll give you an example. Like if you have something in a melatonin supplement, like an herb that changes the metabolism of melatonin, and there are many different herbs that can change melatonin activity, then you may ramp up or reduce the activity of melatonin. But it's only because there was another active in that supplement rather than having it as a standalone. So there's kind of like this nice benefit of having many different things in a supplement. You know, we kind of colloquially talk about that as mixology, where you have like a mix of all these different things. And in our human mind, we think that that's like the best formula. But actually it may be that we need to look at how the body metabolizes those things together. Does one thing accelerate the metabolism of something in there or does it inhibit the metabolism? Are you changing the dynamics? And another example would be, like, vitamin C. Many times what you see is synthesized ascorbic acid in a supplement. It's just, you know, it's ascorbic acid, but it's without the full complement of all of the many different agents that you see normally in natural forms of vitamin C, where it occurs in foods. So, like bioflavonoids. So there are many different things. Like you can either impede something by having a mix of ingredients, or you can enhance the benefit, like with the vitamin C adding in the bioflavonoids to make it more like its natural matrix form. So I think that there's so much that goes into the formulation of a supplement. You know, I was just on a webinar this morning and somebody was asking about, you know, what about for my gene variants, what if I have gene variance or, you know, constitutionally, I don't metabolize certain B vitamins. Well, you know, does it have methylated B vitamins in that supplement, or does it have the active form of, you know, certain things, like vitamin D? Does it have vitamin D3 instead of vitamin D2? There's a lot of different nuance here. And in fact, Dr. Joe Pizzorno just wrote a brilliant article in IMCJ, which is an integrative medicine clinical journal, where he was talking about, like, we. We start to get these stigmas about vitamins that it's just like one thing, like one vitamin B6, but they're actually like multiple formats of different vitamins, and there's so much more complexity to it. So I don't know. I mean, I know we want to keep this simple for everybody thinking about it, and that's why sometimes leveraging and using a healthcare team to get insight, because chances are they've done some of the training on those topics.

I think it's a great point, though, because even walking through in 60 seconds there, I mean, how many did you just hit? 4 or 5 examples of where someone's borderline wasting their money. And the best of intentions and wasting their efforts and they have all these hopes and dreams and then they're like, wow, this is, I just have to accept this. This is where it is. Like, you know, busy mom working, taking care of her family, going through changes in life and, and she's deficient in some things or thinks she is, and then goes and buys these products and it goes back to. I think one of the opening things you, you mentioned is working with a practitioner that's done the due diligence for you because, yes, I want to be mindful of, you know, people's resources here. But if you look at it, yes, it's a higher investment up front. But then for the rest of your life you're taking, you're getting, or the majority or at least even if it's an acute intervention, you're getting the most effective application of what you're taking versus, you know, just guessing. And gosh, I could only imagine how much of that is out there. I'm sure I've done it. And you know, even with, with my background where I was like, oh, I just reread that. I was like, oh, that actually isn't the best form for me and what I'm trying to do or the best time I'm taking it, or the food I'm taking it with or whatever the case may be. So I think that's, that's spot on. I think it's great.

There's so much we don't know. There's so much, you know, we've, we've just reached the tip of the iceberg and we have yet to look at like the timing of supplements. You know, do we have to do a dose effect based on body weight for certain things? You know, so many unknowns. But we do the best we can with what we have. And so I do think taking dietary supplements for the most part, for most people is a good thing because just in general, even if we're trying to eat a very nutrient dense diet, we're going to fall short. We're going to fall short because we live in an imperfect world with environmental contaminants and through the aging process, our needs go up. So it's like the best of all intentions sometimes we're just going to fall short. So it's just where we're at with dietary supplements. I think that they help to patch the gap of what were missing. I mean, just even this morning I was looking at, it was the Linus Pauling, the information center they have online, the Micronutrient information center. Something like 94.5% of people are. Are they're having inaccurate, inadequate vitamin D. Like, they're not getting enough vitamin D in their daily diet. I mean, but most people are falling short on dietary intake levels. But then you have the other side where, yes, taking a supplement can be good. It can help to patch the gap. But let's not forget too, that we can also run into toxicity and imbalance, which is why testing certain things, working with a practitioner and certain things. I keep coming back to that because most people, you know, it's interesting, Joe, because when I was in the clinic, I'd have people come in for the first time, and we would tell them, you know, bring your supplements, and they would bring in a garbage bag of, like, all these things. Like, why are you taking these things? Oh, I forgot. I don't know. I just continue to take it.

Just keep guiding them. Yeah.

So we need to be really smart. And we. We may not need 100 supplements per day like some people might be taking. We might need like, a targeted three to four where we know, like, okay, these are our steady eddies.

Got it. Well, I, I did want to. That's. There's a lot, A lot to process there, which is all great information. I, I did want to get into detox because admittedly, it's. It's an area where I know a few things that have worked, but it's a lot more be very specific application, and I'm fortunate to have other people that I work with that are way more in tune with it. But so asking kind of more broadly to start, you know, you see a lot of these detox products on the market that claim to, you know, cleanse the body and, and work all these things. How does one kind of walk through the detox agent market? Is that not at all what the path they should look at, or there's some validity? I guess there's a lot there. But, like, how do you kind of approach this topic of detox and how one can perform a detox if they need to? I guess, is what I'm trying to get to.

Yeah, no, it's a good question. And I would say first, we need to understand what do we mean when we're talking about detox? Right. So let's just back up a second. So what I was talking about, with respect to the environmental contaminants that we're exposed to, it's been estimated that we have something like 84,000 different chemicals in the environment. And oftentimes when those chemicals come together, they're even worse. And so just think about it like the moment that we're born, we start to accumulate in our bodies many of these different toxicants that are in the environment. That might be things like anything from a paraben phthalate, something more potentially serious, like a metal. Like we would think of mercury, methylmercury, like in fish sources. We also think about what's called persistent organic pollutants. So organochlorine compounds. So things that are used as a pesticide, insecticide, herbicide. Like all of those things really do matter. Like they, they compound in our bodies because many of those different toxins like fat. So what happens as we get older? Many times what ends up happening is we start to reduce our lean body mass. Not always, but we tend to just, if we're not doing anything to promote that lean body mass, it is going to go down and then our fat mass will start to go up. So the potential for bioaccumulation of many of these fat soluble toxins is greater and we have less reserves to get rid of them. We're less efficient at getting rid of them over time through the aging process. So I've written a book, it's called Whole Detox. And one of my approaches to detoxification is to look at detoxification in a physical sense. Like how do we get those toxins out of the body? But then also we need to acknowledge emotional health, mental health, and even spiritual health, which we can all get into. But I think the first place to start is like just check your body out in terms of its ability to eliminate. The first thing that we often think about is the gut. So in functional medicine it's just, you know, start with the gut. When you don't know where to go, you start with the gut. Are you having a regular bowel movement? Looking at kidneys and urination, how healthy are your kidneys? The other one I think about is the skin. Skin health. Making sure that our skin is sweating, that we have proper production of things like oil. Because again, if it's oil, the sebum, we're getting out a lot of those different fat soluble toxins. I often think about brain detoxification, especially at night when we have increased lymphatic fluid flux and removal of waste from the brain that then get poured, it gets poured into our lymphatics and then we excrete that. I think about our breath and how, I mean, especially where I live in the Pacific Northwest, we have more in the way of wildfires now. So just even the air particulates but if you live in an urban area, just even having a lot of that particulate matter from pollution and that impacts us, that's really hard to overturn that. So looking at breath and breathing. So we have a lot of different portals of getting things out. And that has been the argument for, oh, you know, there's no such thing as a detox. The body is already equipped to eliminate substances, which is a true statement unless those portals of elimination aren't functional or that we have certain genetic variants which makes some of those processes a little bit less efficient than they normally would be. So I, you know, where do you start? You know, it's like every day we could be thinking about like how do we minimize our toxic load. It could be simple things in the way of our food, our water, our air. So what are the different things that we can be doing with food? Choosing organically grown food, really simple. Even washing organically grown food can help to reduce a number of the different residues. Water I think is a big one in terms of purification of water because most of what we do on a day to day basis involves water in some way showering or rinsing things or drinking it. And we're mostly water like constitutionally and then again back to the air. I do think that bringing in certain things like air filters, having them strategically placed in the home can be important for reducing air particulates. That could be problematic and even can be seen to be implicated in certain risks for diseases.

Yeah, no, I want to walk through some of those. So the first you mentioned with food I think is ones people could walk away with, apply, you know, washing foods, organic things of that nature. I'm curious to specifically maybe examples relative like when you're talking water, is it more. Do you encourage people to, if they have the means to do something like a reverse osmosis type system, is it just drinking water? Like what are some of the best practices with water?

Well, first I think it's really important to figure out if you have a problem with your water supply.

Testing.

Yeah, sure, yeah. And you can get your water tested for about. It depends on the level of testing you want to do, but something in the order of around 100 to $150. There are third party labs where you can send a water sample and you'll get information on the microbial load on pesticides, heavy metals, all kinds of different things. So you're going to know exactly what kind of water you have so that you can design and choose a filter that can remove those things. Like one of the bigger ones is arsenic. Arsenic gets into groundwater.

That's what we have.

Yeah, yeah. So you'd want to be testing for that. Do you have problematic levels of arsenic? So the only reason I mentioned the testing as being important is because I'll give you an example of a case of where I was doing a home visit to a man in his 80s and you know, he had some health issues. And I, I thought, you know, I'll just go to your house and you know, we'll do the consult there. Because I really like to do home visits. Or at least back in the day when I had the time and my practice set up that way, it was so instrumental to see how people were living. Like, if I had never gone to his house, I wouldn't have known that he had a whole refrigerator dedicated to plastic water bottles. And then I wouldn't have known to ask him, like, why are you drinking all this water out of plastic water bottles? And then he said, well, I just thought it was because my water was bad here. And I said, well, have you ever had it tested? And he said, no. And I said, well, why don't we just spend some money just to get your water tested? Well, the report came back, he actually had mineral water. Like the, the water had a higher pH, it had no contaminants. It was like the best of all spring waters that you could get. And here he was drinking every day out of these plastic water bottles, like single use plastic water bottles. And I'm thinking wasteful and also high plastic and also just, just not good quality water. So, so after we got that information, we realized he didn't even need a filter on his, on his faucet. He was, you know, it was all checked out. And I mentioned to him, you know, you might want to check it out, like on an annual or biannual basis where you just making sure that it stays clean. And he lived in an area where he could have a mineral, higher mineral water. Like he lived in a rural area. But for other people, like if they live in an urban area, they get city water. Just don't know what you're getting per se. So both situations apply, rural or urban, you still want to test your water. And then from there you can figure out, do I need a more pricey filter, like an RO filter? And if I do, how do I bring my minerals back into my, my water? Because now you're going to lose the minerals that you would normally get with water. So I don't know, I just think it makes sense to do just a little bit of testing on the water that you have so that you can be strategic about the kind of filter that you need. Now if you don't have disposable income in order to do that, what I would say is just even getting a very simple, just store bought filter. If you go to ewg.org they have a number of different filters and you can see their price points, you can see what they take out. And so you can do a little bit of homework on that. But then you don't still actually know, you know, it's a good place to start. It's a good place to start in either direction depending on your income and what you're able to spend.

I think it's another great point though. You said of the minerals that are coming out of the water, you know too is is again going back to some of the earlier analogies, best of intentions then someone perhaps is maybe wasteful or even worse, you know, causing a deficiency somewhere else. And I do find it interesting about air filters because I recall I was working for a larger health club chain and they were really, really big around whether the validity to this, I honestly don't remember, but switching around their air filters and their systems. And I think a lot of this was you know, in response to like Covid and different illness and concerns. And I always appreciate that working at the company is very, very big on cleanliness and like routine filter changes, stuff like that. And so I think it's often something. It was funny professionally. Like that was one of our, you know, big things was the quality. And then I come home and almost forget I need to change my filter at home.

Oh no, no.

But so it's just being. But I'm just curious to. When you were doing these at home consults or general recommendations or thoughts, is it. Is there more than, you know, check it from when the manufacturer says whether it's every three, six months etc, is there anything else that you see as a best practice for air filters or. So someone could maybe explore that a little more if they feel they might have some concern with. With air. Maybe there's some allergens are popping up more in the household. Like what are some of your thoughts there?

Yeah, so the first thing I would think about is the quality of the filter and looking at things that you'd want to remove. And I would add to the list mycotoxins. So just extracting mold from the air and as much as possible. Right. Because that can be very debilitating for people with that constant repeat exposure. So and the other thing I would think about is location of the air filters. So it depending on your square footage, ideally you would want one in the bathroom, one in the bedroom and one in the kitchen area. That would be ideal. If you can't do all three of those, think about where you spend the most amount of time. If you only have the choice for one of those, then I would say probably the bedroom because you want a good non toxic sleeping room. Because you're going to be spending about seven to nine hours in that room, hopefully and sleeping. Right. And so. And you know, many times our oxygen consumption, we're breathing in a different way when we're sleeping than when we're just doing life tasks where we're moving around a lot. The only reason I think about the kitchen is because there can be fumes. You know, just think of anytime you cook something on the stove. Many times we have things that get released in that process. So that's a good idea. I think about the bathroom more from the mold aspect. So just kind of cleaning up that space with. Especially if there's personal care product use, you know, that's something we have to consider too because you know, I think about aerosols or sprays that people use. Where do they tend to use them? They tend to use them in the bathroom areas or getting ready for the day or at night. So you want to like kind of scoop that up. So and if you can't again do that in that way, I think that again the bedroom, the sleeping room, wherever you're sleeping would be probably the best way to do it. My favorite. Do you want me to say my favorite air filter or does that matter? Okay, one of the one. I have two different kind. No, we have three. We have four different kinds. My husband chose one of them and that's in one of our guest bedrooms. And then the other one we have is Austin Air, which is kind of an older filter. It's kind of big and clunky, but you know, I have a plant on top so it's kind of like part of the decor. But the one I really like that is more modern and does get at mycotoxins is called Hatha Space. H a T H a space. I love that one because it's really sleek. The air filter is really easy to change. And keep in mind that your air filter is only as good as the filter is good. So you've got to be like attentive. And I love the Hatha Space one because you get a number on the top. So you can see where. If you have an increased air quality index, where the number is going up, meaning that there are more particulates in the air, you can kind of see that the air filter is changing its speed and it's working, and you can get a readout immediately. So I love the Hatha Space one, and they're not very expensive.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah. So that. That is definitely something I'd be thinking about in terms of a home or even if you work in a different place, you know, to think about maybe having a small air filter of some type in your workspace.

Yeah, I think just the way the homes are built, at least in. In what I'm thinking of referencing in my area when I'm, you know, it's very, very minimal of what's actually built in there. So I think adding in different, you know, resources, as you mentioned, for expanding that is. Is. Is key because that's something as you were talking. My wife and I have been talking about because we. We noticed a. A little bit in the bathroom area that we felt like was problematic that we have to address. But that's. So I definitely wrote that down. I appreciate that, selfishly.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that so many people fear mold, and there's a fixation on mold and mycotoxins, and perhaps rightly so, you know, mold is. And there are different strains of mold that I think are becoming a problem. They're persistent. But, you know, we've long existed with molds and fungi, so it's like we have to kind of think about, yes, avoiding in our environment and cleaning up our environment, but we also help to fortify our pathways in the body so that we can effectively move things through and not be affected by them, like focusing on our immune system. Right. So somebody who is immune compromised might be more susceptible to biotoxin burden through the molds or through different constituents in the environment. But look at where you spend the most amount of time and look at how you feel when you're in certain places. Like, I remember working with a woman many years ago, and she worked from home. She lived in a warm climate, so she had the air conditioner on all the time, and she was really sick. She had, like, three different autoimmune conditions. And I just had the feeling. And I said, have you had your air conditioner cleaned out or have you had an inspection of it just to be sure it's okay because you spend a lot of time in that ac? Well, she eventually decided to do an inspection. And when the, when the guy went in there and opened it up, there was all this black mold. So just think of like, you know, just constantly breathing that in and that recirculating through the house. So it's like clean the furnace before winter or your heating system, whatever that is, clean the AC unit. You know, it's not just having those things, it's making sure that they're maintained.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's often overlooked and just general every day. And it's one of those compound effects of things building up in your, in your environment that can cause, you know, other issues and then you're out. As we were talking earlier, buying a supplement that maybe doesn't align with what you're trying to address or you know, have to work a little bit harder to kind of undo some of those things. So I did want to get into the body a little bit with detox, a little bit more. You know, you mentioned the gut. Are there other go to's that you look at in relation to like a, if you were doing a internal detox strategy, is there an order of operation there? Obviously there's going to be nuances and symptoms and case by case. But I'm just curious, you know, is it gut, liver, brain, as you mentioned, is there different kind of methods you would take and in a different order or, or does it, how does that work?

You definitely have to start with the gut in order to ensure that you are moving the bowels. And if you're moving the bowels, then you would be effectively taking what the liver is producing through the bile. The bile is a repository of a lot of these different compounds. So if somebody's constipated and you start working on the liver pathways now, you're just going to be producing more metabolites, but you don't have an effective output and elimination of those. So they're just going to recirculate in the body. So that's why making sure that the gut is well supported and some of the ways to do that would be well in functional medicine. I can tell you that there's a 5R program. The five Rs are Remove, Reinoculate, repair, rebalance and just relax. So no, wait, I'm missing one of those. Remove, replace, reinoculate, repair and rebalance. There we go. So we've got all of those. So it's like looking to be sure that we're digesting food well, because if we are not, we're going to start having like overgrowth in the gut, right? So that's why removing, making sure that we're replacing with digestive enzymes or healthy stomach acid under the guidance of a practitioner, or even that we have, you know, healthy probiotics. When I think of probiotics, yes, it can come from fermented foods and things of that nature. We can also take a supplement of a probiotic. We can look at prebiotic fibers to help nourish the gut microbiome to keep the good bugs living in the gut. Because if we have a good frontline strategy of like making sure that the gut is well protected, then toxins don't actually get into the body and then we don't have to work so hard to get them out. That's why working on the gut first makes sense. Like, okay, we can be having a salmon meal, maybe it's got methylmercury. But what we really want is that to be bound up or biotransformed by an organism and taken out of the body so that our organs don't have to deal with that because it becomes harder and it takes more of our resources and nutrients to do that.

Got it. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. Just, I think, I know the approach that you're gonna, you're gonna mention here, but I do think it's worth asking, like, is there any good idea, bad idea to jump into one of these detox in a box kind of, you know, supplement packages or something that nature. Is there any utility to that for someone who thinks they have the need to detox? Could be, you know, for a three day or a day or three day or five day type of like supplement protocol to remove things from the body without a health practitioner, I guess. But is there any products out there that you see, have some validity to that, or is that kind of, is there potential for issues there if it's not needed or out of order?

I think that it just depends on what's in that product. And some of those products are kind of mixtures of things for the liver, sometimes mixtures of things with the gut. And so it's all kind of jumbled in there with no particular sequence. And in functional medicine, we talk a lot about sequencing and how important that is. So if somebody who's chronically ill just goes and gets a detox in a box of some, you know, just some garden variety, you. Your chances of having side effects or symptoms or having untoward effects, which you might think is a healing crisis or something that you're supposed to have, it may not actually be that. I think we can do so much with food. I know we started this conversation talking about dietary supplements, but when it comes to detoxification, we need to start with the basics. And when we override the basics and just think like, oh, I'm just going to do this three day detox in a box, yeah, we're still going to have like the underlying foundation, which is not met. What we actually want to do is not detox and retox. What we want is like a lifelong way of keeping our toxic burden low. So if you're going to do a supplement and you're thinking about detoxification, what I do personally is I make sure that every day I'm doing some kind of fiber. And one of my key principles is to rotate dietary fiber. So this morning I actually have it right here on my desk. I'm almost done with that smoothie, but it had a protein powder in it and I put in chia seeds, I put in flaxseed meal. That was just one of the ones I had today. But typically I like to rotate whether it's Zen basil seeds, hemp seeds, psyllium, because all of these different fibers have different properties. So some of them are a little bit more water soluble, some of them are not. So they're acting like a broom in the gut, kind of sweeping things through, or they're acting like a mop and they're soaking things up and then moving it through. So I think if you're thinking about getting healthy, I mean, most of us, even you and me, I'm sure that there's something we can pick apart that we could be doing better, right? Of course, we start with the basics of like, just make sure you get fiber, because fiber is going to, again, help the gut with the microorganisms and getting a good healthy gut microbiome, because you don't want gut microorganisms pushing out toxins either. And if you have what's called dysbiosis, where you have more bad guys in the gut than good guys, now you start getting all these signals and you start getting all of this, all of this stuff. It's called lipopolysaccharide that can cause inflammation and you don't want that. So like you, you really. The gut is so long and it's such a vast organ that you just really want this working well. So I would say focusing on food and making sure if you're going to do a supplement in this way, bringing in different varieties of fiber. Now the key with fiber is that you have to ensure enough hydration, because otherwise the fiber can actually constipate. You and I have seen that clinically where people get all gun ho, they start eating well, they start doing the fiber and then they come in. Deanna, I'm constipated. I haven't had a bowel movement in two days. And I asked them what happened because sometimes, you know, if you change your diet, you're going to have a little bit of a shift in your bowel, but it, you don't want to be constipated from the fiber. So you have to make sure that you, you're taking in adequate water with that fiber in order to create the movement in the gut that you need.

And just for some people out there, because I, we have had questions, we had other, another episode where we went deep on fiber and a lot of the things people would bring up to me. So I'll get to my question, but I kind of want to set up a little bit. Was talking about the transition of, well, I was getting, I don't know, three grams, maybe five. And I'm trying to get to 25 as a woman or whatever their target is. And they're having these issues. Exactly what you said, constipation, bloat, gut issues. Do you. One reference point they were referencing with studies in vegans where it took, I don't know if it was six to eight weeks to, for the gut to kind of adjust to the increase in fiber that they found and then it kind of settled. That was one that was brought up possibly, but it sounds like too, now that you're mentioning it, hydration and water intake, would that help that transition as someone's increasing? It sounds like it would to make maybe, you know, the change in that diet a little more, you know, a little smoother, if you will, so that they don't have as many side effects. Is that, is that fair to say? And is there anything else in that transition that maybe someone could add to help with some of the discomfort if they're experiencing that when adding, when trying to add fiber.

And you're bringing up a good point. You don't want somebody to make that shift from almost like negligible fiber to like ramping up. And all of a sudden they have like 20 grams. And you know, the average American gets something like 11 to 15 grams of fiber in a day. So that is like a third of what we actually need for, you know, based on caloric levels, of course. But I think it's important to kind of go slow with it. We always say, you Know, in functional medicine, one of the things is go low, go slow, especially if you're uncertain or you've got health issues and you don't want to perturb something unnecessarily. So what is really key with health is consistency. Right. Rather than just like an acceleration. Right.

Which a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah. So I think slowly moving up in fiber dose, making sure that you do have the water. Maybe there are certain fiber sources that are better than others for certain people. Like, one of the ones that I saw clinically that people seem to have a more moistening effect was the flaxseed meal. So not the flax seeds, but the meal. So you have to take the seeds and either buy them ground up or you grind them in a coffee grinder. Flaxseed meal combined with water tends to be more lubricating and just easier for people. Some of the other fibers might be a little bit less soluble and just more problematic for them. And of course, you have to rule out, does a person have any diverticulitis or any kind of issues where they might react to the fiber in a different way. But, yeah, they could have bloating, especially if they have dysbiosis. They might have like, whoa. All of these microorganisms are seeing this new fiber come in, and it's like, whoa, what is this? And then, you know, there's kind of this turbulence. So I think that going slow and building up to a fiber level that would be more adequate would be better. The other principle that we see, and this we could say is related to detoxification, but it's related to other things, is dietary diversity, meaning that we are rotating foods. We're getting 30 to 50 unique foods in a week's time. And I think what happens with people with just. In general, just life is we kind of have a structure to living, and we get in these food ruts where we're eating the same thing for breakfast, and it's just like, we don't really extend out beyond our usual palette of offerings. And so I do think that moving out of our food ruts and getting more dietary diversity is also one way to avoid the bioaccumulation of toxins. Because if you're rotating foods, you're not, like, compounding and just having one thing. And it's, like, increasing in the body. Like, I think about that even with, like, butter or oils. Right. Like, if you have the same butter and maybe there's some degree of, like, we now know about the forever chemicals in the packaging. So you Know, you want different kinds of. I mean, I just, I'm not very brand loyal with certain things because I do think that diversification, even of the brand, depending on the quality of the brand, but, you know, making sure I'm not accumulating anything specifically that's in that one food. So diversity is the name of the game. In fact, I have four principles when it comes to nutrition and even detox. One is color. Making sure that we're getting the rainbow of different phytonutrients, that we are changing up the colors that we're eating. Number two, I think of creativity, being creative with food and how we put things together. Trying out new foods I think is important. Creative combinations. Number three, the diversity principle of making sure that we've got dietary diversity. And there's a lot of literature on dietary diversity being good for a number of different things. And then the fourth one is eating in rhythm. You know, so many of us, you know, we're not eating according to season, we're not eating according to location, we're not eating according to just even the circadian rhythm. And this is very jarring and it moves us out of connection with the natural rhythm.

Yeah. And is that. I don't. Are some of a lot of those principles in, you know, your book, the, the Rainbow Diet? Is that.

Yes.

The general or. You know, I know there's a lot in it. You know, I was glancing at that and I'm sure if anyone, you know, interested in that, we'll obviously we'll have a lot of this in the show notes and things. But to check out the. The rainbow Diet. But was that you're kind of getting into that a little bit, I guess in your philosophies with that.

Yeah, I do talk about the four principles in the rainbow diet that I just spoke to. But then every chapter thereafter I go into each of the colors and what is the color code of that color for the body? So like red colored foods helping with healthy inflammatory response, healthy immune function. Orange colored foods. We look at things like endocrine health. Yellow, I think of the gut prebiotic fibers and starches. We look at green. We look at heart health. We look at blue, purple. We look at the brain in terms of a lot of the different polyphenols that help the brain with learning, memory and even mood status. So. And I also have tucked into some of the chapters. Like the yellow chapter has tan and brown. The blue chapter has blue, purple, black, because there are blackberries or black olives, black seeds. So, you know, I'm including some of the more exciting, expansive. And then I also have a chapter on white, White, colored foods. Because especially when we're talking about detoxification, we can have toxic white sugar, white flour, white salt, but then we can also have healthy white foods. My mom used to tell me when I was growing up, because I was really kind of traumatized by eating differently than the kids at school. And I remember at that time. So I grew up in the 1970s. I'm 54 now, and in the 1970s, it was all about Wonder Bread. And it was like, you know, that was the bread to have. It was like the cool bread, but I couldn't have it. My mom did not allow Wonder Bread, so she made her own bread from scratch. Or we had Adele Davis's bread, like, really grab, like, ground up, like twigs. In that bread, you can actually, like, see everything that you're eating. And so this was, like, kind of traumatic for me. And I remember my mom saying, deanna, the whiter the bread, the quicker you're dead. So, like, for me, I always think about white, White foods, like, as being representative of being nutrient devoid. But we do know that there are healthy white foods too.

Yeah, no, it's. No, it's interesting as you say that, because we've changed a lot. We didn't have Wonder Bread, but my. My wife, through some testing and such over the years, found some food sensitivities, some gut health stuff. She was addressing herself and then, yeah, changing up, making the bread at home and doing those things. It's kind of a little bit of a joke with my daughters and my wife. So that's why I was. I was smiling a little bit, a little bit more maybe, than usual when you're saying that, because I was picturing when you were saying your mom saying that to you and what she's saying to our girls, which is. Which is. It's. It's cool to see because they're. They're 10 and 13 and they're, you know, but trying to do a more age appropriate. And just, you know, my wife does a good job of balancing it because I could be a little more intense, like certain things. And so I. I think they're doing good with that. So we'll. I guess we'll find out in 10, 15 years. But I did want to ask a question on fiber and water intake, if you don't mind me going back to that. Generally, I'm gonna paint with a broad brush here, but generally, most people are not. Take. At least in some of my experiences but like not taking in enough water or fluids for their, you know, activities, especially if they're starting, you know, exercise or working outside, season changes, etc. Do you find that there's a general recommendation for all right. If you're this weight taking this much water or if you're this weight taking this much water and if you're doing fiber plus this much more, is there some kind of addition you would add there? Or if someone's just well hydrated, whatever the formula is that they're using, is that enough? Or if they're adding fiber, they need more than that does that if that makes sense. I'm trying to frame it.

Let me answer the first question. You know, typically what we say in functional medicine quite loosely is half your body weight in ounces. So you know, you weigh 150 pounds, about 75 ounces of water throughout the day. I think when it comes to fiber, what we need to note is that it's about the timing and the, the co intake of those things together. So it's not like you have the fiber in a meal and then water later. It's about when you have the water with the fiber. So I think the timing is everything and, and perhaps a bit more water if you're doing a supplemental fiber that goes beyond food. I think that that does make sense. That would be. But I don't have a ballpark of like 2 ounces additional water for every gram of fiber. But you know that, that might make sense. It will depend on the fiber.

Sure, of course. Yeah. But I think that's still a good practical thing. Like I think like as you mentioned, right. In a smoothie and, and you're so you're having some fluids with air. Would you recommend or generally do you see on top of like if someone's using like a seed, as you mentioned in the, in a smoothie with a additional water, is that generally enough that you're having it with some, a liquid source that that's going to be generally enough for somebody to help with the potential issues of bloating or you know, constipation, et cetera, from, from maybe not having enough water?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of person dependent, but what I would say is just make sure that your smoothie is lasting, gelatinous and perhaps a little bit more watery.

Sure.

So that, you know, I think you'll know how much fiber you have in a smoothie because you can let it sit there and then all of a sudden it's like you can turn it over there, it's not moving. So what I would say is just make sure that it is. Maybe just one general principle is just that it's, it's flowing and that you have enough liquid in there where you don't also have the risk to choke. Because for some people who have just issues with swallowing or people who are older, sometimes the swallowing reflux is not so great. So then with the fiber and if, you know, the swelling is also something to note. But I would also say that, you know, again, just smaller amounts, just like do some testing on your own, like try out different fibers in a smoothie and just note your bowel patterns and just see how things go. And like, oh, flaxseed meal was really good for me. Or oh, the chia seeds were. They really worked well. Or I ch. I chose cacao nibs like ground up and wow, that, that made a difference. So I think everybody, you know, this is the beauty of the body that I remember a massage therapist told me many years ago, he said we spend our lives in bodies that we spend our whole lives, like, seeking to understand. Like we just are figuring ourselves out, like moment, moment. Right. And things are going to change. Even like this year could be a little bit different than in five years time. Who we are as people, like in our bodies and what we can tolerate. Which is why sometimes, like with your wife, if she did some food testing and she's sensitive or allergic, intolerant, maybe in three years she's not sensitive or allergic or intolerant to those foods anymore. Like there can be like an opening.

Yeah.

Or she may have new allergies where she dealt with whatever she was dealing with with certain ones. And now, you know, now she has to look at these other things. So we're always dynamic. We're not static.

I think, I mean, it's anecdotal. Right. But I, I do think that's not. Think I know that that's true because there were certain foods that never had an issue with, had an issue then other food. She's like, oh, I have an issue with those. And then she finds out after that it was in there and she's like, I didn't have an issue with that. And then other things from some traumatic like accident that that happened and, and recovery and all that, it seemed to lead to some other issues with, I'm. I'm assuming, you know, this, the stress of it and some other liver detoxification issues and methylation issues that once those were cleaned up a little bit and just kind of Optimized, if you will. Nothing crazy, but just being a little more mindful of that approach. Within, you know, a couple months, it was like, oh, things are, you know, happening a little better, feeling different. Less, yeah, less joint pain, less inflammation. I get out of bed and feel younger. But I just simply changed some dietary things and a little more, put a little more thought into what's going on that I, I didn't have to do that before. So now I have to because life changed. Life happens to all of us. And so I think it's a great point, as you mentioned, being adaptable and flexible and also just not getting so frustrated because I think, you know, I, I know, I know we, we booked a certain amount of time because I don't want to get too much in other topics because I could turn this into a Joe Rogan podcast. You have so much knowledge, you have so much knowledge to share. But I, I did want to mention too, like, the mental side of it a little bit from like, even I've noticed, like myself or with her, we're pretty, pretty thick skin, if you will, from a, you know, handling of stress. But then the physiological responses will pop up and you're just like, I can't sleep, but I feel fine. Like, no, no, I handle stress fine. It's like, well, yeah, up here, like maybe the process of it, you don't freak out, but your body is. And I'm curious in your, your detox approach if there's any practices that you see. I've watched some of your content, so I won't, I won't say what I've seen, but I'll let you say it. But what are some things you've used that you find to be a good utility when someone's doing like food or lifestyle? And then also with kind of some of the mental and or spiritual approaches with detox.

Wow, I'm so glad that you mentioned that because it's truly a full spectrum approach. You know, when we change our bodies, when we're changing what we're physically doing and what we're putting into our bodies, it's like there's this ripple through effect. So we can start to change our emotional health and how we emotionally regulate. We can feel calmer so that we're not being reactive. I think that mentally what I have seen is colorful foods make for colorful moods. Kind of like just a better sense of, well, being and being much more resilient because stresses are always going to come our way. It's just how we handle them and how we perceive them right. Is that a stress or is that an opportunity? So what I have seen in doing the whole detox program over the years is that people actually take on a very different demeanor in doing it just within 21 days, because it is a 21 day food and lifestyle program. And I'll give you an example of my father. So my mom is kind of like the health nut of the family. My dad is the junk food dad. So I always had the balance. Oh, if I wanted cookies, I go to my dad. But my mom was actually running the show at home in terms of the kitchen. But, you know, just being in health after all these years. And finally I said to my dad, I'm like, you know, I dedicated this book to you. And for him, that kind of meant like, oh, I better do the program then.

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

Right. So, you know, he. He's kind of. He's been a stressed out guy for many years. You know, he was a police officer for 39 years. That imparts a lot of stress, a lot of ptsd. And just like, you know, he was tightly wound in the way of just being more like, you know, he's really good about certain things, but, like, I could just tell you, so tense, sympathetically overdriven. Right? So he was doing the whole detox program, and he. He took pictures of himself every day. He was doing it against the same brick wall, like, of his house. Like, he would just take a picture, just a selfie. And it was so interesting, Joe, because, you know. Yeah, I was looking at, like, health aspects of, like, his skin and just different things. But I noticed, like, on the first day of the program, he was not smiling. Like, he was totally, like, sullen. And then, like, day by day, by the end of the program, like on the 21st day, he's like, all smiles. He just looks like he's so lit up. And then my mother even called me while he was doing the program, and she said, your father is a different person. So all I can say is, you know, if you're not feeling good from a mental health perspective, food is one thing to be looking at. I think about children, I think about all of the ultra processed foods in schools, and, you know, just a lot of the behavioral and or the mood states of kids, just kids feeling more anxious, more depressed these days. And that can be from a lot of different things. But I think what we have under our locus of control is food to some degree. Right? And I think that those foods and what the science would show is that food can change our mental status. So it's really powerful. So, yeah, a detox can give you a short window into like, wow. The potential of something like where you're full on with something food and lifestyle. And then you start to see the impact of that change. But ultimately you really do want to carry that forward into, okay, like, how do I make this something that I'm doing almost every day? You know, I would start clients on an elimination diet at the clinic, and then they didn't want to go off of it. They were like, no, no, no, no. I feel really good. I don't want to go back to eating eggs. I don't want to go back to eating soy or whatever it was. They were like, you know, I'm just gonna stick with this. I feel really good. Like they, they palpably felt different. They were sleeping better, they had a better sense of appetite, they had more energy. And most people seek a detox because they have low energy and they just don't have a solution anywhere. So. And people will get more energy when they start to eat better, they're going to sleep better. You know, all of those things. I've seen these over time, like people's anecdotes from, from having that experience.

I think that's a really good call out though. Is that something you encourage people to do in your. The 21 day time period to take pictures? Is that something that you often have encouraged just for some of that additional feedback or.

I think so. You know, seeing is believing in many ways. And oftentimes people are looking in the mirror every day and saying, oh, I just, you know, these bags under my eyes or, you know, my, I've got this rash I can't get rid of. And you know, they're looking at themselves. Right. And like many times, that's the impetus for them to create a change because it's something visible that they can then. So I think taking pictures is kind of a cool idea. I have people take pictures of their meals and then show me what they're eating. Because just writing it down, like if somebody writes down salad, I have like a million different images.

Yeah.

But what if I see iceberg lettuce with a few cherry tomatoes and a lot of dressing versus, you know, something like arugula with, you know, different things in there. You know, it just, just you can tell so much from a photo. So what I think is important is, yes, a picture of yourself, but then a picture of your food throughout the day.

Yeah. And. And it's a lot less how often are we using our camera phones nowadays for other things that versus, like, sit down. I have to write it down. Like, how many people. How many times you ran to that client that, you know, they're already super busy, over stressed, and they're coming to you now we're adding logging, you know, and it's like they're just kind of. Yeah, a lot of. It's a lower success rate.

Yeah.

One more thing. I'm adding another barrier. Oh, I didn't write it today, so I'm just gonna eat whatever because I didn't log today. I was like, no, no, no, that's not, it's not the purpose of it.

So that's true.

Well, I, I really appreciate you coming on and I, I know we, we, you know, we booked your, Your time today. I want to be respectful of that because if you allow me, I'll. I'll steal you all day. So. No, but tell everybody out there, you know where they can find you. We're gonna have it in the show notes. We have some other content we're going to pump out about, you know, some of your different programs and where to find you. But just for those listening in, can you, can you share where they can find you more?

Sure. The best place to find me is on my website, which is deannaminick.coM-E-A n n a M-I-N-I c h.com and on there, I actually do have some resources under one of the tabs where you can download some of my detox tools. So if you're thinking like, I kind of like the sound of this whole detox book, but, you know, I'm just not ready to buy the book yet. And you want to just kind of see what I have under the resources tab, you're free to, like all the way if you scroll, because I think it's alphabetical, so you've got to scroll towards the bottom and you'll see some tools that say whole detox guidebook and some of those types of things. So look on there and. Oh, yeah, there you go.

So you were saying go to the.

All the way at the top and you go under resources. You see the tab that says resources. Yep, yep. Just click on that. Yeah. And you go down. It says downloads.

Downloads. Okay.

Yep.

I might have clicked something above it. Let's see.

And if you go.

Everyone gets to see how slow I am, how slow my. My connection is today. It was watching. I apologize. I promise. It's not her site. It's my connection. Did you want me go to downloads? Is this downloads?

Downloads, yeah, the second one, apologies, clicked.

I clicked too fast. I got excited.

Well, no, this is a treat to actually be able to show everybody because just telling people it's not as memorable and I do, you know, these are just free tools that people can use and start to experiment with. There we go. So if you scroll all the way to the bot, you see how there's detox recipes, E booklet, Eat the rainbow tool kit, food and mood tracker, food prep guide. I get all kinds of questions about how to prepare foods. We didn't get to melatonin, but there is a melatonin guide there. Menopause guide. If you scroll all the way to the bottom, you're going to see that whole detox in there as well. There it is. Whole detox for life report. Whole detox guidebook. That would be a good place to start for people if they were intrigued with this conversation.

Nice.

And then they'll. They'll get it. I forgot how many pages it is. I think it's like 54 some odd pages.

Yeah. That's awesome. No, I appreciate you sharing that. That's great. That's great. Let me stop my share here. Whoops. There we go. Sorry, apologies here. I'm just kind of moving slow. Well, thanks again for joining us. They really appreciate you taking the time to come on and for everybody, definitely check out the site. As you just saw, there's tons of free resources to help and put it out there. And yeah, thanks again for joining us. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Send us your comments and questions and you know, we'll be happy to do our best to either answer those or direct you to the website there so you can kind of get in contact and find out some more. So appreciate you coming on. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Thanks, Joe.

All right, take care, Sam.