Menopause, Nutrition, and the Power of Color

Welcome to the Health Trip Podcast. My name is Jill Foose. I'm a functional medicine and integrative nutrition health coach. I created this podcast to bring you along as we travel down intriguing science packed roads, debunking old medical paradigms and perusing new innovative therapies and modalities with the finest functional medicine, doctors, practitioners and like minded biohackers while living our best life. Enjoy the show.

Foreign.

And welcome back to another episode of the Health Trip Podcast. This episode is a deep dive into the science behind nutrition, micronutrients, supplements and menopause. How are they all connected and how can a woman find the best equation for her needs for both her immediate and long term health? And this isn't just about hot flashes or hormone swings. It's about the choices we make during the menopause transition and from what we eat to the supplements we take. How can they shape the quality of the next 30 or 40 years of our lives? From perimenopause to post menopause women experience hair loss, weight gain, brain fog, changes in skin, low libido, gut dysbiosis and so much more. Nutrition is one of the foundational pillars of health and also one of the most complicated, controversial and challenging topics to figure out. To help us make sense of it all, I'm joined by Dr. Deanna Minick. She is a nutrition scientist, international lecturer, educator and author of the Rainbow diet. With over 20 years of experience in academia and the food and dietary supplement industries and currently the Chief Science Officer at C Symphony Natural Health and she has been an active functional medicine clinician in clinical trials and her practice which is called Food and Spirit. And she is also the author of seven consumer books on wellness topics, four book chapters and over 50 scientific publications. Through her talks and her workshops and her groups and her in person retreats, she helps people to transform their lives practically and earn artfully through nutrition and lifestyle. Deanna brings a rare combination of scientific, scientific depth and soul to conversations about women's health. She has spent decades trying to study how food, color and targeted nutrients affect everything from hormone balance and brain function to inflammation and longevity. So if you've ever wondered whether nutrition can support your body through perimenopause, how supplements like turmeric omega 3s or melatonin might fit into the picture, or what a vibrant, evidence based approach to aging, well, looks like, this is the episode for you. And just a medical disclaimer before we dive in. By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice or to make any lifestyle changes to treat any medical condition in yourself or others, and consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having. And this entire disclaimer also applies to any of my guests on my podcast. So sit back, open your mind, and let's dive into nutrition during the menopause transition. Welcome, Deanna. I'm so glad to have you on the Health Trip podcast today.

Oh, it's been something I've been looking forward to, Jill, so it's great to have this conversation with you.

Well, this is going to be a fabulous conversation, because if there's one thing that women are so confused about in terms of navigating menopause, besides hormones, it's what to eat and how to eat. They are just, you know, we're getting overloaded with information from the Internet, from influencers to nutritionists and dietitians and even obgyn and urologists, and it's just really all consuming.

Literally, it is all consuming. Right. I mean, the act of eating consumes us, like, every day. We have all these decisions to make, so. And I think with all the information that's out there, it becomes hard to select from all the different items on the menu and how to navigate where we're going to go with all those food choices.

Yeah, absolutely. And women are gaining weight, their hair is thinning, their skin's looking different. There's a lot of physiological and emotional changes going on. And what works for one woman is not the right equation for the next woman. And you could be sisters, you could be best friends, but whatever they're doing that's working for them might not work for you, and that makes it even more complicated.

That's true. I mean, we live in the era of personalized nutrition, which is why the general overarching recommendations just don't work for everybody. Right. And so I would say perimenopause especially, is the age where we need to start to focus even more on that aspect of personalization which we see in functional medicine, integrative medicine, so many different groups are talking about personalization, and we can define what that means. Exactly. Because I think that there's a variety of different ways around that. But, yes, I do think that with when it comes to eating, we're getting up close and personal, and we're looking at it from a physical, emotional, mental, and even a spiritual perspective.

I would say, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're going to dig into that later. But with all that being said, I've heard you speak many times and you've often say that Food is information. So what is it that midlife women need their food to be saying to their bodies while they're navigating menopause?

Optimize me.

That's a good one.

Optimize and optimization can mean a lot of different things. I. I kind of see it on two separate sides. Right. One would be taking away a lot of, whether it's the inflammation, the oxidative stress, heightened activity. And then the other side would be to restore and rejuvenate processes that are no longer in motion in the same way as compared to when they were cycling. So it's almost like there's a delicate balance that happens throughout perimenopause. And perimenopause is kind of like this because we are. We haven't re. Re. I would say calibrated or equilibrated at that time. So not only are those scales changing, but they're going back and forth and there's this flux. And that's what's driving us nuts, is kind of like we're trying to calibrate. We're trying to find a baseline in that process. So I think when it comes to nutrition, what we're looking for in that way of food is information, is help me balance, help me to optimize, help me to feel restored and rejuvenated through this meal, rather than depleted, because I'm already feeling depleted.

Yeah. I love the word nourish. You know, I use that word a lot when I'm talking to my clients about nutrition. And what is it that they love?

What?

That. What makes them feel so good when they're eating, whether it's with their family, alone, out at a party, it's just all. To me, it's about what is the food that's helping you feel nourished at the end of the day.

You know, I love that too. In fact, the tagline for my business is nourish your whole self. And really looking at those different aspects of the self and how we get nourished in different ways, and I feel like when we say the word nutrition, it's speaking to a very concrete paradigm of physical science. Right. So looking at the biochemistry, looking at the different nutrients and how they're fortifying our metabolic cycles or mitochondrial health. But when we say nourishment, to me, that is exactly what you just spoke of. It is the wider context of what we're looking for in terms of being satisfied, feeling like we're being taken care of, or that we have a connection even to the food and to where it's coming from and what it's doing for us. Just even beyond the meal.

Yeah, absolutely. Before we get too deep into the podcast, one of the questions I have is about how can women in menopause who are feeling so desperate to feel good, how can they be savvy consumers of information online? What are the red flags that they need to be aware of when they are being spoken to about whether it's how to eat, what type of diet to subscribe to or what supplements to take that are going to fix their problems? Because we just want to feel good.

You know, quite honestly, I think that we do need some kind of health team. We need people around us in order to help us with the blind spots that we might have. We could be very savvy consumers when it comes to science, but then we may not be savvy when it comes to understanding how food is manufactured or how dietary supplements are regulated or doses of things. I do think that for most people, they don't have the larger understanding of the industry of food. And I think that, you know, you could be paying a lot of money for things that you think would be healthy, but they're actually not. So I think something like having a health coach, having a, somebody who's skilled in nutrition, having a functional medicine or integrative medicine provider, I think having checks and balances or what I like to call the council. So that might be going online, checking certain sites. You know me as a health practitioner and also more of a science minded person, I usually go to PubMed. So PubMed is available to everybody. You don't pay for it. It is citizen science, public knowledge. So you can go and you can do searches and you can do searches and see how much in the way of clinical evidence something has. You know that that's kind of one place to start in terms of evidence. There are other sites too like examine.com or natural products Database which is a fee for service. So there are other types of groups like environmental working group is also a good one, but that's not specific to nutrition, just specific more to environmental aspects of food perhaps. So I think checking it out and I would say that the last place you want to get information, if I could look at this hierarchically. So healthcare practitioner first and foremost because they're going to know you best in terms of your health needs and most likely have labs, they know your symptomatology, your personal history, they can give you a better context. And even within that I think you need more than one practitioner because sometimes practitioners have Biases. So in all honesty and disclosure, I think it's good to get multiple opinions on things. No doubt.

I agree. I always talk about building your healthcare team. Like, if you're sitting at a conference table and you're at the head of the table, who do you want sitting around the table that's rooting for you? That their only job is to be there to support you and your health goals, your vision of longevity, and they are focused solely on you. And I agree, having some healthcare providers on that team who are versed in nutrition or supplements or nutrigenomics, whatever it is for you, is very, very helpful. That's not always available to everybody. So I really do appreciate the trusted resources online that you mentioned, because those are available.

They are available. That's true. One thing that I do think makes for a good investment in this way is at some point in somebody's health journey to look into genetics, because a genetics test, so something like 3x4 genetics or any of the number of different companies that are out there. If you have a general sense of your constitution and things that you might be up against or that you have working in your favor, sometimes it helps to explain why you might have had certain things along the way. I've just had so many clinical experiences with this. I can remember years ago having a client, red hair, constantly inflamed, and she always felt like she was doing something wrong. She was highly sensitive to everything. So finally, you know, think we weren't making a lot of headway, and we did do a whole genetics panel on her, and she was perimenopausal at the time. And we found out that she had a gene variant for certain inflammatory genes which made her system just naturally be heightened in inflammatory processes, which actually helped her emotionally to deal with it. And she's like, oh, you mean this is just me, right? So it's nothing I'm doing wrong. It's just me and I need to work with me and what my body needs. It's almost like that gave her a completely different approach in relationship with her body. Instead of seeing it like the enemy, it was like, oh, now I understand. I have certain enzymes that are increased and make more of these inflammatory messengers. So, you know, that might be something. As women start to go through a change and they start noticing that their bodies, whether they're in their late 30s or, you know, they're kind of inching into that perimenopausal time of life, I think it makes sense to start to get more informed and empowered about your body to, like, just even start reading a book about how. How reproductive health works. And I think. I must say, I think that one of the benefits of social media, maybe it's not nutrition advice, but in some ways, learning more about the body and how the body works, whether everything from posture to breathing to exercise, I think that people are learning along the way. Like, oh, wow, I never knew that. You know, I once went to a massage therapist. I just think that this is an interesting quote. And the massage therapist said to me that he found it so interesting how people spend their lifetimes in bodies that they seek to understand. It's kind of like, we don't. We. We. You know, the body is a vehicle, a vessel, and yet, like, we spend our lives trying to figure this vessel out.

Yeah.

What is it about my gut that I need to know?

Yeah, I really can appreciate the genetic testing. I actually did that for myself years ago and discovered so many bits and pieces of information. To me, family history and genetics have paved the way of my vision and have made things a lot easier for me and also have taken away the guilt of, or the shame of not being able to achieve certain things on my own. For example, I have obesity genes. I have. I have cancer genes, I have type 2 diabetes genes, and I have heart disease and Alzheimer's genes. So I have. I have a lot of negativity going on, as my preventive cardiologist always says. He's like, you've just got the worst DECA card ever. Like, your hand sucks. And so it has really helped me pinpoint, okay, if this type of vision of health, vision is important in my life now. I have a lot of information to use, and use it really well, and I can decide. I'm going how to exercise, how to eat, how to sleep, how to avoid alcohol. So it's. It's helped me make decisions in my life that are only supporting my longevity. And I have also done the genetics for my kids. So we all know. So it's been. It's a test that I offer to my clients as well, and they absolutely love it because it just takes, like, what you're saying. This woman was like, wow, I'm not doing anything wrong. This is just how I made. Well, yeah, you know, we're all made differently. Like, you know, our health equations. I always say, your health equation is as unique as your fingerprint, and no one else has it. So I'm really. I was going to talk about nutrigenomics further down the podcast, but we're here right now. Can you just talk about, what is nutrigenomics.

So nutrigenomics is looking at the influence of nutrition on our gene expression. So for some of us, we, you know, we look at the sum of all of our genes, but there are going to be certain genes that won't look the same in everybody. So that will lead into the translation of less efficient enzymes or different proteins that are made. And that doesn't mean that again, to my mentor, Dr. Jeffrey Bland, to his phrase of, like, your genes are not your destiny.

Right.

It's not like it's doom and gloom, in fact, just in your case, which is really remarkable. It's kind of like you look at all these things and you say, okay, this is why I'm signing up to do this kind of nutrition. And I'm adhering to this kind of physical activity routine. This is why I need my sleep. You stay on track because you kind of feel like, okay, I know my body and I know what my body needs. So I do think that. Back to your original question about food is information. Food is so many things to our bodies. So when we look more classically at food is information and how it translates, many times we're looking at that translation into the gene expression. So every meal we have for four to six hours after we've eaten, we have a lot of cellular activity, a lot of metabolic cycles running, a lot of changes to our DNA. So we can make or break our cellular physiology just based on that meal that we had a couple of hours ago. And then we continue within that cycle. And so eventually that creates a phenotype, the genotype creates the phenotype, or what you see. So that's why many times we look at symptoms in nutrition. We look at the nutrition physical exam, we look at the health of the nails, the hair, the skin, the eyes. And that's usually what people are seeing in the mirror anyway. And what gets them to make a change? Right? They see a change in their skin and they're thinking, oh, well, more wrinkles. But really that's an indicator of gene expression and looking at the level of the cell and the cellular behavior.

Yeah, there's, there's clues. We can just choose to ignore them or acknowledge them, but there are definite clues on our journey. Circling back to the woman navigating menopause. Is there a nutritional umbrella like a formula that midlife women and beyond need to subscribe to in order to move forward in a healthy way? You know, some common denominators along the way?

So let's think about this in three tracks. So let's think about the macronutrient track, protein, carbohydrate and fat. Then we think about a separate track, the micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. And then the third track is phytonutrients. So when I think of macronutrients to start with the first track, because this is what usually gets a lot of attention, right? And usually when we think of perimenopause, we think of protein. Everybody's hammering on that nail of protein these days, which I think is important. But sometimes what happens is things get blown out of proportion to the extent that one macro is getting more attention than the others. And really it's about the balance of all three of those. Yes, I do think that women going through perimenopause need a bit more protein to support the musculoskeletal changes. In fact, it's even been coined the musculoskeletal syndrome. What we see happening within menopause, right, that we do see changes in bone mineral density, we do see changes in mitochondrial health that translate from the muscle. So we do need to support that. And protein forms the basis for detoxification pathways and also neurotransmitters and helps with hormone transmission, transport. So of course, we cannot skimp out on protein. I do think that some people have gone to excess talking about protein needs. You know, maybe we're looking at here, and this will depend on her activity, her overall bodily needs. But let's just say, you know, general dietary guidelines are 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight. And I think as we move into the peri and menopausal transition, that might be bumped up between something like 1 to 1.2 grams per kilogram of body weight. So we might be looking at, you know, what, what I like to tell people to do is I'm not a measuring kind of person. I like devices. But I think long term for people to kind of get a sense of what portions look like, making sure that they have protein in every meal. I think that that's really important just even looking at the plate and having, you know, about a quarter to a third of that plate with some kind of high quality protein source. And I primarily think about that with respect to detoxification, actually, because so many of our enzymes are built from those proteins that we're taking in. So protein, again, I know that that is one that we're hearing a lot about today, but I think again, it's, it's about the balance fats. This is what I did my doctoral research on essential fatty acids. This is really important as we move through perimenopause. So I know that, you know, what do we hear out there? We hear about seed oils, we used to hear about trans fats. You know, there's always something within the dietary fat category that I feel like gets maligned. And I feel that there's a lot of nuance, a lot of context that gets lost there. I would say for somebody going through perimenopause, one of the best things that they can do is actually here's where I think testing and not guessing could be a really good thing. There is a very inexpensive omega 3 index test that people can do with a dried blood spot. They can actually just do this even online. You can order the test, you don't need a practitioner for it. And very simply, you send it in within two weeks time, you get the results back and it'll tell you how you stack up with relationship to the omega 6 and omega 3 fats. And we want a certain ratio of those. So it's kind of difficult to say, you know, how much women might need because needs for fats may change through perimenopause because she's entering into a state of greater inflammation and oxidative stress potentially. So I do think looking at healthy fats and making sure that you have the right ratio of those is important. The only thing I'll say about fats is to think about, and it's not so much the quantity, but I often reflect on the quality of fats. So looking at how people are cooking with them, the containers, you know, even the latest thing on butter and the wrapping of butter, having pfas or these endocrine disruptors, these plasticizers. I think when it comes to fats, it's really, really important because they can be essential sinkhole for so many different, I would say toxicants in the environment that we need to focus on quality there and then carbohydrate. So when it comes to carbohydrate, one of the things that people hear on social media is no carbs, which is not reasonable. And it's also not very accurate. You know, when we say carbs, that means a lot of different things. If I could show you even kind of the carbohydrate family tree, we would see everything from simple sugars to kind of, I would say medium chain kind of saccharides to very long chain prebiotic fibers. And some of them have greater solubility or insolubility. I mean, they're very complex. So one of the things that I think is really important for perimenopausal women is to make sure that they are fortifying their microbiome. Because as we move into menopause, our microbiome in the gut starts to resemble more of what a man's microbiome might look like. So we start to see changing enzyme levels. We might be more prone to things like endotoxins, dysbiosis. We might start to see the beginnings of things like acid reflux. So just be being very attentive to fiber in the diet and maybe even ramping that up a bit. And that's going to depend on again, how much somebody is eating. Because many times this women move into perimenopause, their hunger and their satiety changes. And some people are just not eating as much. So then they can't actually get in the fiber because they're just not eating as much food. So here's where maybe having a fiber rich smoothie at a certain time of the day in order to help you with not just even appetite, but to give you that, that sense of fiber.

I have maybe 15 questions for you.

I know. That's why I thought I'd stop with the macros, because each of those is like a podcast.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

That is such great information.

And we didn't even talk hydration, which I also want to say is part of the nutrition. Those three tracks.

Yeah, for sure. Nutrition is some. I mean, hydration is something that's so important. I've really stepped up my game in the last few years. Okay, I have some questions. I want to circle back to one. When you mentioned healthy fats and you talked about seed oils for a split second, I know that my listeners are going to be like, okay, are we supposed to eat seed oils? Are we not? What is, what are we supposed to do here?

There's so many different definitions of what seed oils are and the context. I think that if you kind of look under the water line out there at what seed oils are about, we're looking at highly processed oils that tend to be refined. Sometimes they go through a very extensive process of deodorizing, and they go through a lot of this processing that people don't like. And in so doing, we can increase the amount of omega 6 fats, which people already have a lot of in the diet, because they have a lot of soybean oil in the diet, a lot of corn oil, cottonseed oil, and many of these oils are found in highly processed Foods. So it's kind of an indicator of a processed food, food diet. But when it comes to, if we look at classic seeds and we think of flaxseed oil, you know, especially a flaxseed oil that's high in lignans. Right. Lignans would be important for a perimenopausal woman and could actually help with symptoms. So I think, again, it's about the quality of the fat, the type of what we're talking about when we even say seed oils. And keep in mind that Omega 6 is in higher supply in our diet, but Omega 6 fats are also essential fats. So we just have to keep everything in balance there. So sticking to food sources, hemp seeds, avocados, these types of just healthy fats. And I think here's the name of the game for me, it's diversity. So not sticking to any one oil. It's like, even in my kitchen right now, I've got coconut oil, I have ghee, I have sesame oil, which is a seed. Right. And so again, not overly cooking. Many times I use some of these dressing, these. These oils as part of dressings.

Right. Like a finishing them down. Right, yeah, I'm the same way. Yeah. You're speaking to the perimenopausal woman. Do these same bits of information you're offering us also apply someone in menopause and then. Well, menopause is really just a day. And then postmenopausal women, right.

So with. I think for there. There may be some tweaks that could happen there for just thinking of the macronutrients for a second and not even talking about the micros. So a postmenopausal woman will have more need as it relates to heart health. Bone health and brain health are kind of like the big camps, as I see it. So thinking about if she has more proclivity, whether genetically or just by nature, of how she's living, to have more symptoms in the cardiovascular system, she might need to look at the healthy fats a little bit more as an example, or even the fibers. Right. So there, there could be certain things to be looking at there as she moves into post menopause. I think the biggest thing in postmenopause is sustainability, like what you're doing, the consistency of it, and to know that post menopause is like the second half of your life, you're going to be in that phase for a very long time. So I don't know. I think. I think for me, you know, my biggest thing is bone. So you know, you've disclosed your health history. My health history is that I have a paternal family history of osteoporosis, and pretty significant to the point that there was also bottom bone cancer. So for me, it's all about my bones. And I'm thinking, as a postmenopausal woman now, about, okay, making sure I get that protein, making sure I keep inflammation down, making sure I keep active. So I think as we move into postmenopause, just really reflecting on everybody's path is going to be kind of different here in terms of what they need to be consistent on and why.

Yeah. So important, knowing your why. It's a place that I start with, with all of my clients. What is your why for wanting to be here in the place? Right. You're really getting that vision. So such a great tool to use while we're still in the macronutrients. Another one of my questions has to do with the GLP1 medications. But our body makes GLP1, right? Glucagon, like peptide and protein and carbohydrates help us produce GLP1. Can you just speak to that?

That's true. And the other thing that helps us with that signal of satiety and appetite and healthy gut function is plant foods. You know, looking at things that are bitter help to prime things like metabolic flexibility, healthy release of enzymes, stimulating bile. So I think that, you know, it's so interesting how things get pigeonholed into, like, one compound, one hormone, one agent within the gut, when really we're looking here at a very complex system. So what I would say to everybody out there is, beware of that shiny object syndrome where we start to think like, oh, our entire health or our appetite or our gut is reliant on this one thing, when really we look at the gut as a repository of so many different neurotransmitters and hormones and microorganisms. So, but keep in mind, though, that back to the bitters, because I do think with the whole GLP1 agonist movement and the visibility has fostered to some degree, is an awareness of what are the natural components that can actually stimulate and get the gut in balance. So looking at more of the traditional ways of eating, where we have all of the different flavors, all of the different tastes, in order to key into these receptors to enable the natural efflux of those compounds into the body and in proportions that would be physiologically appropriate, not pharmacological. So I. I very much come from that standpoint of trying to look to the body to see what would the, the natural, I would say the, the template, what are we looking to do? And it's the same even with menopause. Because, you know, if you look at even Mark Hyman, I remember him saying that cardiovascular disease is not a statin deficiency. And similarly, menopause is not just a hormone deficiency, it's an endocrine imbalance. It's an endocrine decline, it's the entire endocrine system. Sometimes I think with menopause, what ends up happening is we get so narrowed into estrogen and progesterone in the ovaries. But really if we kind of back that out, we would have been looking at the thyroid started changing in our early 40s. Our adrenals were already on overdrive in our 20s and our 30s and our sleep, our pineal gland was becoming disrupted. So it's not like we just wake up one day and our ovaries have gone kaput. It's that, you know, our endocrine system as a whole circuitry has been on the decline. So similarly to your question about GLP1, I think we have to look at the circuitry, the overall system, rather than any one component.

Such a good answer and such a great perspective too, so that women know that there are options and there are lots of things to try, lots of tools in the toolbox to try before just going to medications in whatever area they need support in seeing what can your body do first. And then maybe the medication could be even on a lower dose at that point because you've already set up this platform where your body is thriving as much as it possibly can. And now you just need a little bit of help. But it's not as big as what you thought. So I really like that perspective. Okay, you were going to move to micronutrients.

Micronutrients. Okay, so let's think about those. Those would be the vitamins and minerals. So the vitamins, the way that I lump together would be the water soluble vitamins. So the entire B vitamin team, I kind of think of them as a team. And then I think of vitamin C and then on the other side I think of vitamins A, D, E and K. So you have again, water soluble, fat soluble. And the reason why I like to lump them out that way is because water soluble means that we're going to be excreting them more often. So whether through sweat, through urine. And so we are going to have to repair, replenish those with more consistency and regularity. And I mean, just even this morning I was reading some literature about B vitamins. I mean, vitamin B6 being needed for testosterone synthesis. I mean, those B vitamins are so integral. And the way that they work within all of the different cycles and the metabolic pathways, it's like they work as a whole. Many times we think about methylation. Methylation is the process. It's a very somewhat simple idea of adding a methyl group, right. And so having this carbon with hydrogen being added onto something in order to activate it or to improve the. The detoxification of something. But it actually requires, like two different circuits of processes of which B vitamins are integral. So if that's off, then homocysteine goes up. Now we can't detoxify our hormones, and we started having symptoms because we are becoming more toxic on the inside because of the lack of B vitamins. So B vitamins are really key. I mean, if we're thinking skin health, I'd be thinking about all of the B vitamins, but especially niacinamide, you know, just so many because of DNA repair and thinking about just. We're starting to create a more. I would say as we get older, you know, DNA repair becomes more faulty. We're not as efficient in it. And those B vitamins can help us with repair processes. And that's because it's energy dependent. And when we think of the mitochondria, we're thinking about vitamins B2 and B3. So when women are thinking about, okay, I'm going through perimenopause, I've got more inflammation, I have less, less energy, I'm more fatigued many times, this is what I start to think of, is how is she with B vitamins? Vitamin C is also wonderful because of the connection with the adrenals, but not just the adrenals. The brain is also saturated, metaphorically speaking, but also, if we look relationally within all the different organs, the brain has high concentrations of vitamin C. So vitamin C is typically used to help make neurotransmitters. So really important for mood, for focus, for overall stress response and immune response. So that might be in greater demand as we're going through this sticky wicket of perimenopause with just a lot of more inflammatory immune cascades firing. And so we might need to look to vitamin C needs. And as our estrogen starts to come down, you know, adrenal health is changing as well, and we become more sensitized in some ways to stress. So I think making sure that we're supporting ourselves now with the vitamin C, but then Also, here's the missing piece that I feel gets lost with vitamin C. We need the accompanying bioflavonoids with vitamin C for that potentiation in the body. So bioflavonoids are part of the polyphenol category of plant compounds. So when I'm thinking about vitamin C in foods, I'm thinking about a grapefruit or an orange. And many times those foods have these bioflavonoids that accompany the vitamin C to help with, I would say, the utilization. So when I'm thinking about a woman and her needs during perimenopause, I'm thinking about capillary fragility. So she starts to look at her circulation. She starts to look at things like varicose veins, skin health. I mean, just even collagen working together with vitamin C. I mean, we could go on and on about vitamin C. Yeah. But anyway, it's important through the perimenopause and menopausal transition. And then when we look over at ADE and K, they're all important for a variety of different reasons. Some of them compete with each other, but they are fat soluble, which means that they're going to store up in the body and be there longer, and they're going to be in tissues that are fat soluble like adipose tissue, like the brain. Some of them can store in the liver and become toxic. So in some of these cases, it's worthwhile. I know that everybody's on the bandwagon with taking vitamin D, but that is one that you do want to be tested for to be sure that you're supplementing adequately first of all. And then also you're not getting too much. And back to what we were saying before about genetics, that if you have some gene variance in how your cells take up vitamin D, you might actually need to talk with a practitioner about whether or not the dose of vitamin D that you're taking is adequate or do you actually need more to override the faulty signal at the level of the cell. So that's been implicated in different states of bone health.

Yeah, you were talking about phyto polyphenols and phytonutrients and phytochemicals. And I want you to just sort of deep dive into what those are. Why does their color matter? And what's the best way for women to think about them?

Okay, so we'll start with what are phytonutrients? So sometimes you might hear phytochemicals or phytonutrients. They're the same Thing, these are non caloric portions of plants. Some of them are pigments. So when you look at a plant, and sometimes when you're moving from summer into fall, you see the change from green into red, orange or yellow, you start to see that underneath chlorophyll, there are all of these other colors. So these would be the carotenoids. Carotenoids are a large family of phytochemicals, something on the order of 700 different carotenoids in nature. But when you look at the human diet, we have about 40 of them in the diet. And mostly we hear about beta carotene. When you look at what's floating around in the blood, we might see about 20 of them. So we really get a fraction of what we find in nature. And I just want to say this about carotenoids real quick because this was my master's thesis at the University of Illinois at Chicago, you know, when I studied carotenoids. So I've always kind of continued on with that interest. But as it turns out, orange, this orange carotenoid color seems to even be connected to ovarian health. So there are a few studies out there in which, and these were clinical trials where researchers were looking at human ovarian tissue and then looking at tissue when it was cancerous, just to compare the carotenoid levels. And there was a discrepancy between a normal healthy tissue from the ovary versus a cancerous tissue. And some of these carotenoids seem to be signaling ovulation. So when we look at the corpus luteum, right, that yellow body that is formed by way of ovulation, this is yellow in color because of the carotenoids and some of the retinol that is formed from those carotenoids. There are some other studies that show that having carotenoids in the diet may actually translate into greater ovarian vitality, you know, which is kind of like a loose way of saying, like, you're, you're basically fortifying the ovaries with these carotenoids. So there's an actual, like, color code to, to orange in this way. Now that doesn't mean that carotenoids are only found in the ovaries. They're found in the skin, they're found in the brain, they're found in a lot of fatty portions of the body because they like fat. You know, they're, they're fat soluble. So that's one thing to be thinking about with these different phytonutrients is that some of them like fat, and some of them are more in water. So the. The other. Did you want to ask anything about that before we move on to the.

Yeah. What are your favorite carotenoid foods?

I just had a whole bunch right before this. This call mango. I am upset. So when I started going through perimenopause, here's what happened to me. And I always pay attention to cravings because I feel like they're signaling some physiologic or maybe a psychologic need, and maybe there's a crossover. But for me, it just became like this total connection with dried mango, which I know is high in sugar, which is why I like to complement it with having something that's high in protein and or fat, like having something like nuts. Usually, like, my favorite snack is to have cashews or pistachio. I had pistachios today, which would be high in lutein. That green color on the pistachio is actually like the. The lutein content, the pistachios and dried mango. There was even a study on dried mango showing that it helped with skin health, skin quality, and helping with the hydration status of the skin, making it just the skin more supple. But if you had too much mango, it actually did just the reverse, which makes sense because sugar can be aging if you have too much. Right?

Yeah.

So what would be my favorites? Yeah, definitely mango, I have to say. But I have an affinity for, like, tangerines, just anything like, like the sour, the. The pungent. This morning had carrots. Carrots are such a great food, too. And if you can get not just the beta carotene from the carrot, but if you have carrots that are purple or my favorite. Are they purple carrots?

Yeah.

That's a twofer. Right. Because not only are you getting the carotenoids, but now you're getting the overlay of the polyphenols, which are important for the brain.

All right, what's another group?

So if we think of that again, that family tree of phytochemicals, the carotenoids, again, are about 700. The largest other category would be the polyphenols. And the polyphenols comprise something probably on the order of 8 to 12,000 different types. Grapes. And typically, they're associated with red, purple, blue, black, brown, and sometimes a little bit on the green side of foods.

So I think of berries.

Berries. So blueberries, blackberries, figs. This is fig season. I just had one this morning. Anything that's that purple Like a deep purple hue. In fact, the deeper the hue, chances are, the more concentrated the polyphenol. So why do we care about polyphenols? In one of my books, the Rainbow Diet, I talk about blue purple as the color code for the brain. And the reason why is because in these blue purple foods, there are these polyphenols, and we refer to them as anthocyanins, anthocyanidins pro. Anthocyanins, proanthocyanidins. Some of you may have heard of these words. Essentially, those are compounds that come into the body and in the gut, there is an interaction there that forms different compounds that then signal the brain. And there are also clinical trials in which they are feeding studies where they give people blueberries or they're giving people even grape juice, and they start to see improvements and changes in cognition, learning and memory, and even mood states where people become more calm and have better attention because of having this blue purple food in their diets. So this is an important color because out of the entire spectrum of colorful foods, the one that people get too few of. And Jill, you probably have seen this when you're working with people, but if you just look at the colors, either through a photograph or through a food log, you're going to see that blue, purple is the one in shortest supply.

Hmm. I love blue purple foods. I mean, think of all, like you're.

Eating purple carrots, which is really purple.

Carrots, purple cauliflower, plums. I mean, I just. I mean, now in the summer, you know, with the farmer's market, we have so many options. Oh, yeah, it's amazing. I want to shift over to targeted supplements for the menopausal woman. And, you know, obviously, food is first. Food is our go to. We want to clean up our diet. That's one of our pillars of health. But like I said, I don't eat dairy, so I need to supplement with calcium. And there's certain other things I need to supplement, supplement with because I don't get it enough from my diet. So if we're just talking about this menopausal woman, and I know we all have our different equation, There's a few, a handful of supplements that come up in my mind, and one of them is turmeric. And I've read so much information on turmeric of really having to be very savvy on which type there's different types and which type it is that you are going to bring into your, you know, supplement world or through food.

So.

So what Is it about turmeric that is so important for the midlife woman? And how do we choose which one to take?

It's a pretty potent anti inflammatory herb and or food, depending on how we're taking it in. So for women who are feeling more inflamed, so this might be the woman who has sleep disturbance, she might have hot flashes, she might have the musculoskeletal pain. And these types of things start to rearrange during the perimenopausal time. So this is where turmeric would be something to be thinking about, including. I mean it is incredibly well studied. There are so many clinical trials. And when I think about taking turmeric, you can do it in a variety of different ways. Right. And of course none of this is meant to be prescriptive. You definitely want to be checking in with your health team on this because many of these different herbs and things that we're going to be talking about can have interactions with other things. So if you're taking other medications, just note that. But turmeric in general, long history of safe use in India and other places of Asia. So having the, the whole root, you know, if you think of the actual knobby looking turmeric that you can buy at Whole Foods, great to have like a whole food form of that. And sometimes you see that people juice that, they put that into a smoothie, you can shave it or grate it into a stir fry. So in this way you're getting the whole food turmeric. Right. And then if you move along that spectrum, you can also get a supplement where you have the whole food turmeric complex. So many times this is all the different curcuminoids and it's anything that was in the turmeric, it's just dehydrated and pulverized into this powder, which might be good for, you know, if we think of, I just think that there's some intelligence to plants and why there are certain ratios of different compounds. And so I think for somebody maybe with just kind of like general preventative maintenance of looking at inflammation in their body, maybe there's nothing that's acute where they have to address, but they're just kind of wanting to get at what's referred to as inflammaging or the low level chronic inflammation that many times we see maybe something like that whole turmeric powder in conjunction with the food turmeric would be a good choice. Right. And then moving so on the, so.

On the supplement, will it say something.

Very specific it would say if you read the Nutrition Facts label or the Supplement Facts panel, depending on what you're buying, it would say and spell out what you're getting. And so, yes, I happen to have worked for a company that had a whole complex of turmeric and it was labeled as such on the supplement.

Okay, good to know.

Yeah, you just have to read carefully on that. Now, when things on that Supplement Facts label show that there is a standardization, or you see on the label that it's an extract, that means that there's a particular compound or compounds that have been concentrated, and many times that's done in order to create more of a therapeutic effect. So something like that, where you have like a standardized level of curcumin or curcuminoids, one of these active polyphenol components within turmeric that might be indicated at certain levels. For people with more severe things along the lines of, you know, again, joint pain or just kind of like just having some issue with just pain in the body, I would say, you know, helping to quell or reduce some of those inflammatory reactions. Now, again, this is like health helping to support healthy inflammatory response. Herbs work very differently than medications. So. And you have to be careful because turmeric can. You know, I think of my father as an example who does take a variety of different meds for whether blood pressure or blood clotting. So if he were to take turmeric, there could be an indication or an interaction there to just take note of. Right. And in some cases, some people will have to reduce the amount of their medications if they are starting, I would say more therapeutic levels of certain herbs.

Yeah. This is why it's so important to work with someone who is well versed in all of this.

Yeah, it really does. Because some of these supplements are expensive, and if you don't know what you're buying and getting right, you know, some of these turmeric preparations will also have fats or they have black pepper in order to enhance the bioavailability or the. The migration from the gut into the blood. So some of these fancy preparations are going to cost more because they're in a different format. So do I think that those are great? You know, again, I often think, are we overriding the body's natural response and like, forcing things to get in the body when normally they wouldn't be in the body? And I often have wondered, do we just need to let turmeric be at the level of the gut and then to create other metabolites that might actually have a signaling effect. So you know, we do see some benefits, some different clinical trials with different types of turmeric preparations. So again check that out with your healthcare practitioner. But there are different ways to bring in something like turmeric, which is a common herb, it's even a food. And so you can be bringing that into the diet it without having to move into the supplement straight away.

Yeah, I really like that approach because a lot of women listening might not go to an integrative, holistic or functional medicine practitioner. And so they can't go to their PCP and, or ob GYN because they're just going to have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Right. So we've got to be really careful. Yeah, we already talked about vitamin D, we talked about Omega 3. Well, we didn't talk about supplementing with Omega Omega threes. And so this is a kind of a, an area where some people just don't want to eat fish, they don't want to eat seafood and so they're just not going to get the Omega 3s and maybe perhaps they're not eating any beef or grass fed beef where it might be a little bit higher. So in terms of supplementation, how can you find the best fish oil? And I've also read that we should be taking, especially if you're an APOE carrier, which is, is APOE 4 carrier, which is the Alzheimer's allele, like, which is what I have that we should be having.2 grams of DHA.

Yeah. So when it comes to fish oil you have a lot of different options here. And sometimes the challenge with fish oil is the getting the levels. So to get 2 grams of DHA is, that's, that's not a, a low dose dose, that's, that's a high dose that would require multiple large soft gels in order to give you that dose. So sometimes people like just the straight on liquid which I think can be good if people don't like to take a lot of supplements or the soft gels. So quality is everything when it comes to an omega 3 product. Right. So you definitely want to have access to a company either through your practitioner or through a retail channel that you know is verified where you know that the company selling this product has had third party verification and quality control, meaning that it's not like they're, they're just putting the product out and not testing it. Because you can get all kinds of contaminants in oil. So you definitely want a good quality product. It should be in glass. If it is a liquid and not in plastic. It should be in a darkened bottle. It should not have a smell. If it smells rancid, then you know you have a, an oxidative byproduct within that. Yeah, that oil. Right. So smelly product, smelly oil, then you know it's gone bad. So even if you open up your liquid, you really don't want to keep that in the fridge any longer than about a month.

Yeah, yeah. Now what if someone listening is a vegan and they're not going to eat fish, they're not having seafood, they're not going to take fish oil. What else is out there for them?

Them? Yeah, there's also algal oil. There's also flaxseed oil. The issue with flaxseed is that it's not in the long chain fat form. So it's relying on your body's ability to convert the alpha linolenic acid into those longer chain fats which, you know, the average person can do something between 5 and 15%. So you might need to do the flat flaxseed oil and you might also need to do something like algal oil. And the algal oil will tend to have more of the dha. So then you're relying on the body to convert up to EPA, which is more of that anti inflammatory omega 3. So you know, it's kind of interesting because vegans and vegetarians, they may actually have more balance in some cases, maybe not. So that's why, you know, you have to get your omega 3 index done. But in terms of looking at that omega 3 to omega 6 balance, you want to see where you're at with that so that you can supplement appropriately. You know, I was part of a clinical trial some years ago where the, the people enrolled in the trial were generally healthy people, middle aged. And actually when I say middle age, let's just qualify that they were probably in their 30s, early 40s, they were supplementing on average with maybe 1 to 2 grams of omega 3 oils. And their levels of omega 3s averaged around 5%, which is really low. So what we want that to be at is between like 8 to 10%. So even people who supplement can be really low. So that's why it's really important to, to assess and to measure and to have good quality oils. Some people are just going to use a lot of that fat. Right. So I think for vegans, vegetarians, testing will be really important for you having the algal source, having, you know, some vegans or vegetarians more. I would Say, are okay with krill oil versus the larger fish oil. So krill are like the smaller shrimp. So that's another option. And that tends to be more of a complex, not just the fatty acids, but also some of the. The pigments, which could be of value as well.

Yeah, yeah, very good advice there. Another group of herbs that's really popular among menopausal women is the adaptogens, like things like ashwagandha or maca radiola. I. I used to take maca all the time, and it really helped me. I had very low testosterone when I was in my late 30s, and I had to actually take medication for it. And eventually I got off the medication because I transitioned to using a high quality maca powder, which helped me for a while until I hit perimenopause. And then, of course, I had a decline in testosterone. So talk about the adaptogens and how they support a woman navigating midlife.

Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. Well, first of all, in full disclosure, I am chief science officer at Symphony Natural Health, which makes feminescence. And feminescence is a line of clinically tested maca phenotype products or the different life stages of women. So they have certain maca phenotypes for menstrual health. That's a totally different product. Then they have a separate product for perimenopause, and then they have one for postmenopause. So they have four clinical trials. And what I have found with maca is that, first of all, it's a really interesting plant. It's a, like a tuber with a root has, like, the leafy greens above ground. There are seven distinct maca phenotypes, and they have different colors, different DNA, different physiologic effects. So for some women, if they just go to the grocery store and just pick up a bag of maca and then just start putting it in their smoothie, you never know what kind of effect you're going to get because that maca is actually not defined. So there's a lot of, I would say, information that goes into the growing of maca. It's been shown that even the location of where maca is grown can determine its phytochemicals and even its clinical efficacy. So what happened with maca specifically is when you remember when Viagra came out, like in the. When was it? Like the late 90s or so, and then people were looking for other forms of, like a natural Viagra. And then the Peruvian maca became very, you know, it was talked about and it was transplanted over to China. And then, you know, it was started to be grown in China. But it didn't quite have that the same impact because the growing of growing a plant in Peru, in the Andes, in that high altitude actually created certain phytochemicals that were beneficial for certain things. So there are certain kinds of maca that are good for men and then certain kinds that are important for women. And what's really unique about feminescence specifically, and I actually started on the perimenopausal product when I was going through perimenopause, and then I transitioned into the postmenopausal product. But what's really unique is that it is essentially stimulating the hypothalamus pituitary gland, which is kind of like the master control center for hormones, and then that is connecting into the overarching endocrine circuit. So thyroid adrenals and ovaries. Because as a postmenopausal woman, you're still producing estrogen, you're getting androgens from the adrenals. Right. And that those androgens are then converting into, some of them are converting into estradiol. And so what the feminescence does is it helps to stimulate that process. So that levels of estradiol and progesterone, what you see in the clinical work is that these hormone levels are supported through the feminescence. So I think that that's kind of unique because many times you hear about phytoestrogens and just take adaptogens and, you know, you'll have more energy. But, you know, quite honestly, for some women, that can backfire. It just may not resonate with what their hormonal needs are. Whereas with certain studied maca phenotypes, like with feminescence, we're actually looking at nourishing the hptao axis to regain some of that communication that was lost.

That is so interesting to me, especially for the women listening who might not be candidates or might not want to take menopause hormone therapy, that they have to start piecing together a lifestyle that's going to include nourishing foods. It's going to have to include possible supplementation, maybe other non hormonal medications. But. But what you're talking about with these different maca phenotypes is sounding very supportive for a woman navigating this phase in her life who might feel like she doesn't have a lot of options out there.

Exactly. And. And that's exactly what I feel is happening. Jill, is that there's so much about just a woman has symptoms, go on HRT. You know, if you're entering into your 40s, go on HRT. It just, just feels like there's this medicalization of menopause where so many women are just being routed into this without really looking at all the many options that she could be doing. And quite honestly, the latest statistic I saw was that only 5% of menopausal women are doing any kind of hormone therapy. That means that 95% of women are looking for other solutions because they don't quite feel comfortable or for various reasons, they're choosing not to do menopause hormone therapy for, for some reason.

Well, I would, I would add in that perhaps part of that 95% of the women also can't find a menopause care expert to even have the conversation to make the decision on whether they want to take it or not, or whether it's something that's viable for them based on their family history or whatever that is. So I think there's a lot of different variables that go in. And the latest stat I heard was actually it was like less than 3% of the women. So anywhere from 3 to 5% of women are taking menopause hormone therapy. I'm one of those women. I take it it's a game changer. But I also lean into other things in my life, right, that, you know, it's not the magic bullet for me, but it certainly helps me move the dial for the goals that I want to achieve. But there are women out there who just don't want to take it. Maybe they're not educated around it, maybe they have fear around or maybe they just are. You know, it's, it's a, it's a, a dead end conversation for them. They're not interested. But whatever it is, women deserve options in every pillar of health that exists.

They definitely do. And I think always going back to the fundamentals is, is key. It's kind of like when we started this conversation, it's like, okay, let's just check all the boxes first. Let's look at nutrition, let's look at lifestyle. Let's not underestimate the power of doing those things. And then let's move forward into targeted nutraceuticals of various types. And when I went into perimenopause, I was doing feminescence pro Perry the, the Maca Life formulation. And that helped me significantly. And then I continued to move along and then I was like, you know what I think I'm just going to, like, touch up with a bit of. Of hormones, exogenous hormones. So the amount that I probably needed of those hormones would be significantly less than if I wasn't doing all these things. Right. So you.

Right.

It's almost like you start to bring down the symptoms. So then you just need like a little. Well, at least this was for me. And this is. I'm not speaking for anybody out there, but I just needed just. Just to fill the gap of what I couldn't get through the feminescence, through my food, my lifestyle, because I was always already very healthy. I mean, I.

Right.

You know, not. It wasn't like I had to make huge tweaks or, you know, I was already kind of there with a lot of the foundational aspects.

Yeah. You know, I recently did a podcast on navigating menopause. If you have adhd, which hits really hard in perimenopause, women who have ADHD have much, a much harder time with symptoms. And so perhaps they're on SSRI and, and they can still bring in menopause hormone therapy, but perhaps they. They just have to sort of balance out the dosing with their physician. And I'm wondering, I'm thinking about this MACA and all these phenotypes. You know, have there been any studies done looking at women who are navigating menopause who also have adhd, who also bring in a specific maca?

Well, I can tell you that there were these. These four clinical trials that were published, and they did look at symptom relief. So across the board in two validated questionnaires. And what they showed was that there were improvements in things like mental health, also improvements in just, you know, all of the different features and facets of the Kupperman's index, you know, the Greens menopausal score, which also comprise a lot of the mental aspects. So there was an overall 84% success rate. Wow. Yeah. So, I mean, it's worth a try, right? You're not bringing in exogenous hormones and it is a specific preparation of maca. Right. These different MACA phenotypes that have all been studied. And actually, even before the clinical trials, there was pre clinical work to determine what those specific phenotypes were. Because before that time, MACA was studied for men in men's health. So. Exactly. To what you were speaking to with Testosterone.

Right.

So Dr. Gonzalez's work, looking at prostate health, sperm production, using a lot of very specific maca, like red maca Black maca, but mostly red. And you know, his work on prostate. So there wasn't a lot done on women. And even the scant work that was done, they found like negligible effects when it came to supporting hormones. So Dr. Henry Meissner is a biochemist that did a lot of this work with looking at women's health specifically and certain maca phenotypes and finding that the phenotypes were different than the ones that were used historically in the literature for men, which makes sense because men have different needs. We're going perhaps more after an androgenic approach and with the women's hormones, we're looking at more of a, you know, again the, the estrogen progesterone balance. So in these studies, if you look at them, you'll see that women were started on placebo or they were started on the feminescence and their hormone levels change just even within one month time. And you could see that those levels continued to, whether it was FSH or LH started to come down if it was estradiol, progesterone. If you look in the studies, they started to come up, but not abnormally. So where like you're going into supra physiologic levels, but into more of like this plateauing and an appropriate level for that woman's age and stage of life.

So I'm going to, I'm going to link your, the product to the show notes so women can go there and really read about the different phenotypes and, and I'm sure you have studies linked there and all the different products. And I'm sure it says what it does, who it's good for and information like that. What about Ashwagandha? You know, that's something that I hear a lot of women taking and it's become quite popular. Do they have to be as, as specific about what type of Ashwagandha they're taking?

I think they're, you know, Ashwagandha is one of those more of a classic adaptogen. So it's going to stimulate the adrenal. Right. And so there's even some connection with healthy testosterone levels. So I think for some women they do experience a benefit using Ashwagandha depending on the preparation. I think for other women it's kind of like there are so many different kinds of classic adaptogens. I kind of see maca as like beyond an adaptogen. I kind of put it over in a camp by itself because it's actually doing more in many cases Whereas some of these, like rhodiola ashwagandha, you know, we kind of look at those as, you know, stimulating the adrenals, or at least the system that will go and then stimulate the adrenals to produce cortisol. So, you know, I just think we have to be conscientious with certain of these adaptogens because they can be stimulating. Right. So for a woman where she's trying to balance the adrenals with the ovaries with the, the brain, you know, there's a proper way, I think, to also bring in adaptogens. And so again, I think working with a practitioner, making sure that you've got the right formula for you would be important.

Yeah, all such great advice. Well, Deanna, we are coming to an end of the podcast. I have just one final question for you. What are the first three changes you would suggest a midlife woman makes who feels stuck and foggy and just frustrated in navigating menopause, whether it's perimenopause or post menopause?

Okay. I think the first step is create connection. And when I say create connection, that means with a community so of like minded women that are perhaps going through some similar things so that she can get a sense that she's not alone. Also creating connection with a practitioner and maybe needing to amp up practitioner visits, health coach visits. I think having a sense of what's happening and re establishing kind of that, that frame of life and what she, what she's going through and really be in that space and to have people that support her. So I would say that's number one. Number two, I am going to say get colorful. Get colorful and creative. I remember when I was going through perimenopause, I remember telling my husband I would wake up in the morning after having some night sweats and I would say, you know, I am so curious about this, this stage of life. Like, it's amazing what is happening to me. And he said, Deanna, that is so interesting that you would say that you're curious. And I never really thought about it before, but I felt like, like I was going through this, this transformation. So what I would say is that reflect on how you will take your sense of creativity into the future. So we move from a physical creativity of the body into a more emotional, mental, spiritual sense of self is what I believe happens through this menopausal transition. So, you know, how do we want to show up with our creative juices now? Do we want to write a book? Do we want to start A business that might be a little bit too much for some people. What can we do that is nourishing for us, but in a soulful way? I feel like this will be the glue that holds us together emotionally. Right. I mean, having the support, having the physical support, emotional, mental support with community is important, but I do think that. That creativity is a healing salve, and that can mean many things to many people. I started painting when I was going through perimenopause, too. I was doing a lot of very, like, bright, colorful shapes, and I felt like I needed color as a nutrient. So maybe for other people, it's. It's sound, it's music that shows up for them. Maybe it's words. You know, everybody has their own creative DNA. So I would say to get creative and colorful, whatever that means for you, within that time, because those are very nourishing elements that are soulful.

I also love the colorful analogy because. Let's make our plates more colorful, too.

Absolutely.

I love that.

Just start there. You know, colorful foods make for colorful moods. I've even created a food and mood tracker so that people can track their moods with their foods. Just the color. I'm not talking about macros or micros. Just. Just color.

Yeah. And what's number three?

Number three would be, I guess, intuitively what I feel like is make time for you. And the biggest thing here, you know, when women go through this time of life, many times their. Their kids are getting older, maybe their parents are. In this aging time of life, there's just a lot of, like, caring. And so how can she care most for herself? And sometimes that shows up as silence. Sometimes it's stillness, and sometimes it involves not going out. Sometimes it means going to bed early. Sometimes it means just, like, vegging out on your big bean bag, listening to your favorite podcast. Like, it's whatever you really enjoy doing, but it's just, like, time for self. This is, like, none of the community stuff, and maybe it involves some of the creativity stuff. You know, that might be a worthwhile place to get still. Maybe it's being in nature. Yeah. What I. I think that there's something about a woman diving into her own endocrine wisdom. You know, this is the time of life that wisdom comes to the forefront. Intuition heightens. Our dream state is enriching, you know, so if we see those as elements of, like, showing us the way to our wisdom and into this next. Next stage of life, you know, that that place of silence becomes a really beautiful incubator of growth and transition.

I Was not expecting these answers. I was expecting more food related answers. But these are all so incredible and beautiful.

But give you food answers too, but.

You know, that's boring. We already talked about food ad nauseam. This was way more soulful and. And you know, one of the things I do with my clients is I have them take a character strengths trait test online to get back in touch with what are their top character traits. Right. And you know, we're all intuitively curious. It's just whether or not we're bringing that to the surface and utilizing it in our life. But I really love reconnecting women with their strong character traits. It's already wired in them. These are the low hanging fruits and just let's grab onto them and see where we can go with them in this next phase of our life. So I really loved that your answers all really sort of surrounded this idea of getting back into who we truly are. And I do think that that is at the same time going to help us reach our goals in all of the pillars of health. Right. Including nourishing oneself. So thank you for that lovely answer and thank you so much for joining me today and really digging into this. The science of nutrition and macronutrients and micronutrients and the maca. I mean, it's all so fascinating. And I think there's a lot of golden nuggets for women to walk away with without feeling that overwhelm. You know, just start with one small piece and see what works and what feels good and then just move on to something else that picks your interest.

Yeah, that's beautifully said. And I'll just say to everybody listening too, is that when I was in perimenopause, I remember somebody said, a friend of mine who had already gone through menopause and was postmenopausal said to me, deanna, when you're on the other side, it's just so different. Yeah, you just get a different baseline. Things are quieter. And I was thinking, really, I hope so. And she was right. So, like, I'm almost two years out from my menopausal anniversary and she was totally spot on. I just feel like, totally recalibrated. I just have a renewed sense of like this next phase of my life. So I just want to leave that message of hope to everybody that, you know, not for everybody. Will it look the same way.

Right.

But, you know, the perimenopause time, it just think of it as a dance. It's a dance between your younger, I would say, vital self and your elder wise, intuitive self. It's a dance dance, right? And so yes, just enjoy the dance while you have it. It's temporary and then you'll move into this next phase, which is incredible.

Yeah, I, I ditto all of that. It is, it's an amazing time of life. Well, thank you again for joining us today and just sharing your expertise and your wisdom. Such amazing information. I learned a lot that I didn't know, so I appreciate that. And everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. Thanks, Deanna.

Thank you. Thanks.

Thank you for joining me. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Lifestyle changes can be hard and overwhelming to make. By building your support team of functional medicine, doctors, therapists and health coaches, you can reach your optimal health goals. Be sure to check out my other podcasts. It's until we meet again, stay healthy.