2024: The Company Doctor Wrapped #86

After all, all art is experience.

Hello and welcome to the last Company Doctor episode of 2024. Today, in keeping with loose tradition, Gary and I are looking back over the year gone by, both in terms of events and shifts in the business landscape, but also picking out some highlights from across our year's fantastic episodes. I get Gary's take on which industries have best navigated the challenges of 2024, which trends are likely to emerge in 2025, and why the term thinking outside the box should be forever consigned to the oblivion of Room 101. This is the Company Doctor Christmas Wrap 2024.

Hello, hello Gary.

Let's not look at each other.

I mean, let's look at each other, let's not look, let's not buzz the lens. It's hard knowing.

We're still getting quite, we're still getting used to this sort of setup.

I know, we're not used to being together.

No, I know.

This is only the second or third one I think we've done.

Yeah. IRL. It's good though. And we're doing things a little differently this time in that I'm asking you the questions.

Yeah, we do things differently a lot, don't we?

Yeah, we do. Actually, I can't remember the last time we did it just as it should be. Exactly. But we're always pushing boundaries. But I've got some series of questions based on 2024, you know, the guests that we had, the topics that we covered, some general things around the business landscape, and then a couple of sort of fun questions thrown in.

As well. George, can I determine from your jumper and the Christmas tree in the background it might be nearly Christmas?

You're very perceptive. You're absolutely right. It's nearly Christmas and this is our Christmas wrap. We're not actually going to wrap. Cheers to that.

But yeah, cheers.

Merry Christmas. I'm just going to kick off, if I may.

Let's do it.

Looking back on 2024, what were some of the sort of standout trends or challenges that you observed in the business world?

This is my first question.

This is very—

an easiest question.

Oh wow, there's so much going on. I think the world is definitely a different place. I think the standout for me has been the hybrid office working challenge. Yeah, conundrum, should we say. I've spoken to so many people on all sides of this and no one knows the answer. Yeah. And I think the reality— it came out actually in Bruce Daisley's episode, which is basically we're in a new world, we need to adapt to it. There isn't a right or wrong to it, but the answer isn't trying to go back to how it used to be. And that's the big standout for me, because on one side, people are struggling with collaboration. Yeah, because too much of one thing's no good either, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you end up, you're on your own all the time, you miss out on that collaboration and building relationships and the stuff you don't talk about over Teams. And on the other hand, if you don't give people the flexibility, then their lives have changed and therefore they can do things like go to a doctor's appointment. Yeah. Or not have to travel or spend the money to come in when they don't need to. Or sometimes we've all gone in the office and we're on a Teams call and not speaking to anyone in the office. Yeah.

What's the point? Yeah, you're right. I think this year, 2024, it's definitely started moving back to more office work, hasn't it? I think it's definitely moving in that direction.

Yeah. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is kind of fairly busy, I would say. And a lot of people enjoy that environment. So you're back in the office. Yeah. Talking to real people, real people.

We're glad to be having coffee.

Yeah, we're together, George.

Incredible. Okay, well, that's, that's an interesting take. And I think you're right. That's definitely been a sort of hot topic of 2024. Just thinking about our podcast, our wonderful, wonderful podcast, which episode this year left the biggest impression on you and why? That's a tough one because we've done a lot and it's hard to sort of just recall them out of thin air.

There's been some amazing podcasts, you know, really, you know, guest-wise. Um, you know, I really enjoyed the conversation with Sat because he was, you know, he was talking about the way that they've taken their business and moved it on and they're putting people first. Uh, really enjoyed talking to Bruce Daisley because I think opened our eyes on sort of things like ways of working.

Yeah.

But on our own personal, uh, podcast, I love the growth mindset episode that we did together. Yeah, a really, really good reaction to it. There's so many, isn't there? And I think the variety we've had has been, uh, has been spectacular.

Yeah.

But yeah, I think the standout one for me was Growth Mindset for this year.

Yeah, good choice. I think that performed incredibly well, didn't it?

In terms of— Yeah, absolutely.

In terms of people listening. So thanks for your continued support with that one. There'll be plenty more to come in 2025. Just on that same sort of vein of favorites, not the usual favorites, but have you got a favorite piece of advice that was shared by a guest in an episode in 2024? Is there anything that any one particular guest said which stuck with you? I can actually think of one myself.

Oh, good.

You got this. This isn't about me. I love it. Well, I remember when we were talking to Peter about AI and he was talking about— it's not really a piece of advice, it was just an observation. But he was sort of saying, you know, everyone's started losing their minds about the prospect of job losses and things like that. And he basically said that this has been happening for generations. You know, it's just about adapting and sort of moving with the times. Talked about his mum and the sort of the work that she did. And I've just, I found that quite an interesting way of looking at the AI.

Yeah, it was an eye-opener, wasn't it? I think a lot of people commented on that. In fact, that was one of my favorite episodes. Just remember that. And yeah, a lot of people commented on that because, you know, when his mum was younger, it wasn't AI.

Yeah.

But her business changed and she had to pivot to the new world. And I think that it was a good way of bringing it to life rather than thinking about robots are taking over the world, which is what a lot of people think.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I just remembered mine actually, because there's been so many episodes. I think it was episode 77 when we had Nick Walker back on talking about early careers. And one of the things he was saying, which, you know, being an HR guy, right? But he said networking is probably the most important thing in his whole career. And he was addressing introverts because the natural inclination of an introvert is not to network. He said, even if you're an introvert, you've got to network. He didn't say quite get over yourself, but he was saying get over yourself, because if networking is fundamental to your success in your life generally, and you know that that's my number one thing. Yeah. So to hear that from an HR guy, that really stood out for me.

Yeah. And that's probably quite a powerful thing for introverts to hear. I mean, it's— I suppose it is easier said than done, but I think that was— yeah, that was some good advice.

One is just on this point. Yeah. To be honest, George, over the, the years, you know, we talk about networking a lot. Everyone I speak to knows it's important.

Yeah.

There's still so few people do it. And, you know, I think in the new year we'll do a, we'll do a new podcast on, on networking to give some people ideas about how to really get into it, because everyone knows that it's a good idea and it makes a difference, but they don't do it because they feel uncomfortable. Yeah. And as my wife says, to know what not to do is not to know, whatever that means.

Wow, that's pretty sage advice. I'm not sure what it means either, but, um, who knows, right? No, I think that's a good idea. I think 2025, we should make it the year of networking. I think, you know, I've certainly tried to get better at it, you know, based on just the conversations that we've had and I've seen the benefits from that. So yeah, let's do that. Probably shouldn't be planning our schedule live. That's what we're like. That's who we are. And we touched on, or I talked about AI and the Peter episode, which was, which was so good. It's such a hot topic conversation at the moment. How have you found it shaping the business landscape in 2024, either just from an observationally or from a personal perspective?

It's a really good question. I've seen various things. The obvious one is that everyone's adding the word AI to everything they do.

Yeah.

So let's ignore that one. But the practical use, you know, just my recommendation to people is, you know, you know, when you get on those electric bikes, a lot of people, the natural cyclists, are a bit kind of anti. But when you— if you ever drive an electric bike, it just gives you a little kick up the ass. And I think the starting point for AI is to use it to propel you, give you a kick up the ass. So If ever you're writing an email, just chuck it into ChatGPT. It makes it— polishes it, makes it better. If you're trying to write a CV, polish it, make it better. If you want to do— I've used it for research, and now it's connected to the internet, which it wasn't before. It can create a dossier for you of the people you're going to meet. If you're lazy networking, you can use it for that and research the person and the company you're going to see in some detail. I searched myself the other day, which is quite scary, and it was quite accurate. And then the other thing is if you're trying to create a service or a piece of marketing, as long as you use the right prompts, you can start getting it to be your friend. Yeah. As you know, we use it for the podcast. We put all the episodes into Delfi AI and it basically becomes us. So you can ask any question to answers in our tone of voice in the way that we want to work. Yeah. So I think start in a practical way and then the future, you know, the future is the acceleration. Next, early next year is a new version of ChatGPT coming out, which I think is actually almost out now.

Yeah.

And it is as close to human thoughts as anything else. It's going to advance really fast.

Yeah. And that's the sound of the coffee machine going off there. This is live, which is not— it's not AI controlled, unfortunately. But this is— yeah, this is live radio. This is what happens. Yeah, that's a very interesting take. It is. It's a game changer, isn't it? And it's, you know, it's evolving so rapidly that it can be—

I've got to share a story, actually. I was working with a company and they were doing innovation workshops that had all the best brains in the business in there. Yeah. And they were trying to brainstorm the future, including AI and other innovations. And while they were doing— I was in the session. While we were in the session, I was asking ChatGPT to simulate a brainstorming session with these types of people and give me some summarized views of the brainstorm session itself and the actions.

Wow.

And it came up with as good ideas as the people in the room.

Yeah.

Not saying the people aren't useful, but if you ask it in the right way, is quite scary.

And I think people can be, well, are surprised about how useful and intuitive it can be. I certainly am. I'm amazed on a daily basis what it's capable of doing.

And as we speak, Apple have just updated their phone, integrated Apple Intelligence, and again, it does pictures and it rewrites your text messages and emails and does a whole bunch of background stuff anyway. Yeah, we're not here to talk about it.

No, but it's impressive and it's Quite scary as well at the same time. But moving on, a couple of other sort of fairly boring questions, which I think I'm going to bypass to go on to.

I love a boring question.

Maybe we can come back to that. Have you got— I mean, we talked about favorite episodes, etc., etc. Have you got a personal highlight from being co-host of The Company Doctor this year?

Wow. That's a good— you're asking good questions. And actually, you keep saying favorites. It's like trying to choose between children. They're both your favorites, right? I do like all aspects. A personal highlight. You go first.

Well, a personal highlight for me, not that I had a huge amount to do with it, was the release of the book and sort of having that come out, I think was seeing all the hard work that you and Ollie put into it, I thought. And then obviously the miniseries that we created on the back of it, that for me was a bit of a personal highlight. And it was, I think, the first one we recorded live in the kitchen.

Yeah, that's our second one in the kitchen on the other side. Yeah, I must admit that was a big highlight for me. You know, it was a proud moment, but also it almost felt like we were bringing the podcast to life a little bit. And I think those live, those live episodes are really great. And in '25, we're going to do more live episodes. One of the things we've been threatening to do is Pizza and Podcast, and we're aiming to get into a restaurant and do a live podcast in there.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think the highlights for me are basically the continuing journey engagement we've had. You know, the engagement has been really high. People like what we're doing still. Yeah, we're on episode 85 or wherever we're at. We're going to think about number 100 soon.

Yeah.

And I think the other highlights are, you know, people really enjoy our guest podcast, but they enjoy it when it's you and I, and they enjoy you more than I. But, you know, it's fine. I'm kind of cool with that now.

Great.

Okay.

I like that. And so I'm the highlight, basically. You like being the highlight. I'm the highlight. And sort of taking it back to sort of more business-focused stuff. What trends should businesses and individuals prepare for as we move into 2025? I mean, obviously AI is one, but is there anything beyond that?

I think one of the key things for people is it's been a difficult market. There's wars going on around the world, there's lots happening. And to be focused on optimization and efficiency in a business is where it's at right now. So people are looking to squeeze the lemon a bit more, to get more out of what they've got, to accelerate their business growth, to do more, to be more assertive in the marketplace, make sure the money keeps coming in. So technology aside, the business drivers are all about How do I grow my business? How do I improve what I do to do it better? And, you know, how do I look for new ways to pivot? And I think that that's one of the things we're seeing. The other thing I'm seeing is around that collaboration topic, because, you know, people have worked away from the office for so long that they're missing out on that magic that occurs when you're physically with someone. Now, I was just in the customer's office, you know, they just hang out there and then you bump into all sorts of people and then you have different conversations that you would never have. Yeah. You know, if you go for a business dinner, it's the same, right? You're talking to people, it's more intimate, you're finding out more. So I think finding new ways to collaborate and make 1 and 1 equal 5 is important. Optimizing business, growing business, they're the key trends and how people adapt in the market that we're in and get back to growth. That's kind of what I'm saying. And then the technology is there as an enabler rather than the reason.

Yeah, I like it. And you know, you mentioned a couple of the challenges there. Have you seen any industries or sectors that are navigating those particularly well?

Well, it's interesting actually. I think some are kind of behind but doing okay. So the insurance sector at one level is a laggard because it's always been a profitable business that hasn't really needed the technology. But even with it, I'm seeing a big growth within the insurance industry where they're using digitization to grow. Which they didn't need to worry about before. And then if you go the other end, you know, most businesses are in that. Yeah, I don't think it's one sector particularly that they're trying to get back to growth. Is anyone— was your question, is anyone good at doing it?

Yeah, is anyone sort of particularly navigating it particularly well, those sorts of challenges?

I think some people are further along the journey. The finance industry has had to be— if you kind of put one next to the other, finance and insurance, yeah, I'd say finance is kind of maybe 5 years ahead of insurance. And, uh, and what they're doing right is another question, really. I think most people find any transformation hard because it's people and it's culture. And, and what tends to happen in companies, they spend so much time on the action, they're forgetting about bringing the people with them.

Yeah.

And, and it's actually a cultural change. I think the biggest standout for me during any change is it's about cultural change, not about going from A to B. It is about going from A to B, but if you miss out the cultural part you miss out the key part of bringing people on the journey and therefore it slows you down. And the second thing is people make the project too big. And so, you know, either they don't get started forever because it's too big or they don't make progress because they don't know where to start.

Yeah. And what's the approach to that? Is it sort of salami slicing?

Is it sort of—

Yeah.

In Project World, it's called Agile, but yeah. Salami slicing is one way of putting it. It's a new word for Agile. Salami. Yeah.

A new brand. And do you think sort of 2025, is that going to— are things going to change? And, you know, you're talking about pivoting and things like that. Things are going to change more rapidly, do you think, or more drastically than they have in 2024? Or do you think it's going to be a similar sort of rate of evolution?

Good question. So, you know, my feelings about New Year's resolutions. So the natural inclination for people to go, it's New Year, everything's going to be better and faster and more amazing. And everyone hopes that's the case. But the truth is, if people don't change their behavior, and treat it like it's a New Year's resolution, which is they get started and it fizzles out, then things will stay the same. And I think what will happen in '25, it will kind of start to grow. It feels like people want to get on with things, but I think inertia gets in the way. And I think certain people or certain industries will have a better year. I wouldn't like to kind of clump it all together because I think it's never like that. The market is kind of flat, I would say. Starting to grow, but then you've got lots of other outside activities like wars, like inflation and all the other things that go with it. But I think that the people that will be successful are the ones that don't treat it like a New Year's resolution, that make it part of their DNA.

Yeah.

And they look to improve, but they're ambitious enough. Here's my classic one. So at the end of the year, people set their budgets for the next year. It's just like a New Year's resolution.

Yeah.

And what they do is that no one wants a bigger target. So when the boss says set the budget, they're not going to set ambitious budgets because why would they, right? And therefore their ambition gets lost in the budget setting. If you're progressive, you should think, and if it was your own business, you would say, what could we do? Let's have an ambitious target. If we don't meet it, we get closer towards it. Yeah. And therefore you end up with a much better success rate because you're setting your goals bigger than stretching but achievable rather than what you can get away with. Yeah. Be the difference.

So shoot for the moon and you'll land on the stars.

If it was your business, what would you do? Rather than what can I get away with. I think that would give people a better perspective.

That's it, people are scared of making a wrong for their own brain, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Hi, George here.

Bear with me while I excitedly share the news that the company doctor Gary Gamp has just released a book available for purchase on Amazon. Career Catalyst is a compendium of insightful advice from the mind of the company doctor, designed to supercharge your journey on the path to career success. And it's out now on Kindle for just £6.99 and paperback for £10.99. Do yourself a favor, pick up a copy today, follow the 10 secret steps that Gary outlines within, and soon you'll be navigating the world of work with the carefree heroism of Sir Ernest Shackleton.

I'm gonna throw a curveball your way, if I may. And the question curveball is this: if the company doctor had a theme song for 2024, what would it be and why?

It's got to be something. I don't know what the song is, but you'll have to help me with this. It's got to be something about networking. The thread for the year has been networking collaboration, I think, or some nod to mindset. But I think there's some— is there a tune about networking?

I don't know. Maybe someone can let us know.

Maybe you can write one.

Maybe I can write one. Yeah, that'll be my New Year's resolution.

If I was clever enough to tell you which tune was about networking, I would, but I think that's the theme.

Oh, well, hopefully people can comment.

Yeah, let's have it. Let's have some examples of good networking songs.

Yeah.

Nice.

I like that. And another slight curveball here. What's one business buzzword from this year that you wish that we could retire forever? Thinking outside the box. I hate that. Right. And is that just because you think everyone should be thinking outside the box all the time?

No, no, I just think it's not something you would talk like. The thing I don't like in business language is stuff that isn't normal. So if you and I are having a chat, we're having a fireside chat, stuff that people talk about, stuff at work they wouldn't talk about at home. Can you imagine talking to your partner at home and talking about thinking outside the box or whatever things people come up with? And your partner would go, you're right. Yeah, but then at work we seem to be allowed to do these things and it doesn't make any sense.

There was a trend, I think, during lockdown of people recording their partners. In work mode because suddenly you were seeing what your partner was like in work mode and they're like, oh my God, he's a totally different person. Yeah. So it was like circle back and exactly all that sort of business. Okay. Thinking outside the box, we'll retire that one for good. And we're nearing the end actually. I've just got a few more questions for you and this is around guests again. And I wondered if there was one guest which surprised you the most. So maybe you had a sort of preconception of them and they surprised you either in terms of the advice that they gave or sort of the The way in which they delivered it.

Yeah, I think Peter Jung, for me, from Optimizely, not because I wasn't expecting him to be good, I didn't know him particularly, but the topic was going to be AI. But I think what Peter managed to do is make it real. His background was HR, technology, and legal, I think, or something to that effect. But he was able to kind of bring all those bits together. So he made the whole topic of AI very relatable., but very kind of personable. It could have gone down the big technology route, and that's what I was expecting. But actually, it was a really practical view on AI in the future. Yeah. So that was a big standout for me.

Nice. Yeah, that was, that was an excellent episode. We've mentioned it a few times. So Peter, if you're listening, thanks again. We've had some wonderful guests throughout the whole year, and I'm going to end this session with a Gary Gamp style question. And it's the question which you ask a lot of our guests, but a sort of a slight New Year's take on it. If you could go back and give your January 2024 self one piece of advice, what would it be?

Get out of home more often and go and get in front of people. I'll tell you why. So towards the end of the year, I've made more of a point of going out, going to spend time with people in their offices or just with people. And I know this, but I've been surprised by the effects of that, as in I've got to know people better. I've got more potential business because of it. So if I went back in time, I would say, and I'd say this to everyone for 25, get out, get out your house, get out, just go and meet people, go and camp out in someone's office, arrange to meet people for coffee, lunch, dinner, whatever it is. Just be with people more because the more you're with people, the more you'll be able to network and find out things about them and add value to them, but also find stuff for yourself. So that's my big learning. I think the year before we spend too much time away from office because even our customers aren't in the office, but just find the excuse to meet with people.

Yeah, love it. And we're going to be digging into that, aren't we, in the new year?

We're going to do networking super turbocharged in '25.

Love it. Can't wait. Gary, thank you as ever.

Thanks, George.

Great. Thanks to you all for, uh, for your continued support and for listening to this lovely podcast. Um, we wish you very much.

Thank you, everybody. Have a fantastic time and a happy new year.

Thanks for listening and thanks for your continued support of this podcast. We're forever appreciative of all the comments, likes, and shares that we receive on LinkedIn and Instagram, and are more and more surprised and delighted by the numbers of you tuning in to each episode. Have a very Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, and we'll see you for more Company Doctor charm and wisdom in 2025.