Walk & Talk 6: Beat the Clock - The Secrets of Smart Time Management #98

Gary, here we are. Can anyone at home guess where we might be and what the time is?

Yeah, you know what, we're here outside Big Ben, and you know what's really funny? I don't want to diss you in front of everyone, but we were supposed to start at 1:00 and I got Big Ben, which is pretty accurate. Yeah, and what happened?

Well, I was about 6 minutes late, but there was a line bite problem as I came through the hailstorm on the way here. Difficult to believe there was a hailstorm, there was. There was. Then I couldn't find somewhere to park, it was a nightmare.

It was so ironic. Yeah, I know, and it got me thinking, and I did a time-lapse of Big Ben, which I'll send you. I won't embarrass you with it. And it was like tick, tick, tick, and it was showing like the time moving. It's really cruel, right?

It is cruel, and I knew it was going to happen as I saw the sort of the minutes tick past, uh, 1 o'clock on my watch. I knew that you'd be using it against me.

Well, I think you, you asked me to have this episode maybe to help a close friend of yours or something.

A close personal friend who struggles with timekeeping. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Borge Gload, his name is. And while we're ribbing each other, this isn't the first time we've run this particular take. We did get a few minutes in before we realized the camera was on, but we are doing it again as if it was brand new. It was no one's fault. Exactly.

We're very fair today. Yes, I forgot to press record, but you know, that's life, right?

That is life, and it's all a time management problem.

Pretty much.

But to kick off with the time, we are talking time management.

Yes, we are.

That sounds obvious, and it should be obvious considering where we are. Um, Big Ben, the ultimate timekeeper. Absolutely. Um, what have you seen the biggest mistake leaders making when it comes to keeping time, both themselves and their teams?

Yeah, no, this is gonna sound obvious, but I think one of the biggest problems is that people, they don't think about time as an important perishable item.

Mm-hmm.

And they, they don't use time to their advantage. You know, it's, it's really important on two sides. One is that being on time shows, fakes the fact that you are being professional and then predictable. So people really like that. And secondly, there's another side to it which we use throughout the episode, which is where you can use time to be more efficient, and we'll talk about later.

Yeah, yeah, that efficiency I think is something which we need to definitely get under the surface of. But one thing I've noticed a lot of people talking about, and I think I've noticed since I was about 10 years old, and maybe it's just a symptom of growing up and growing older, but everyone seems to be incredibly time poor, and no more so— never more so, sorry— than, than in this modern age. What do you think it is? Why do so many of us feel time poor despite having the same 24 hours as everybody else?

Yeah, no, it's really interesting, isn't it? And in fairness to people listening, it's bloody hard, isn't it? Because we're all online, the phone's always available. Now even when you go on holiday, you're kind of doing your email. So there's so much stuff, we're like drinking through a fire hose.

Yeah.

So it, but that means that we need to prioritize what we do and, you know, decide where we spend our time and use it effectively. A good example for me is I think when people are prioritizing time, so a good example is most people are never late when they go on holiday for the plane. Have you ever been late for a plane, George?

No, sir.

No, absolutely not. So what is the difference? Why would people be never late for a plane, but they're late to meet their buddies when they're recording a podcast?

Yes, that's exactly what it is. Priorities, isn't it? Not that I prioritize a beautiful sort of Grecian island getaway over spending time with you, but yes, people don't want to miss the flight. Also, I'd recommend not taking a Lime bike. You know, there goes our chances of Lime ever sort of sponsoring this podcast.

But even like, even if you were going to the airport, the Lime bike wouldn't be a problem because you might leave a bit earlier.

You know, yeah, yeah, exactly.

To answer your question though, I think there's so much demand on people for time, it's really important to prioritize. Yeah, what is the return on investment? What's the prioritized thing you should be working on to get the most out of your time that you've got available? And I think people need to stop being completers or finishers.

Yeah.

Because I think if you try to be a complete finisher on anything, you're not going to make it.

Nice. And you do this a lot, I think, in your professional life as well, in terms of helping people get better when it comes to time management, and especially in business as well. Where do you see most businesses wasting their time and what can they do to sort of stop time wastage leak? You know, if time was money, where would you say plug the revenue gap or whatever?

Okay, well, it's a big question with maybe a big answer, but just maybe as a starting point, If you think about, I think most people want to show value, so whatever time they got available, they fill their days. So before there used to be, before there were weekends, people worked every day. Yeah. And Henry Ford worked out that he could make the production line more efficient if he gave people 2 days off. So time isn't always about filling time, being more busy. It's actually about deciding how to be effective and how much you should do and what things you should work on. Right. So I think that's probably the starting place. As a consultant, I try to work on the basis that I am going on holiday and I will make my plane. Yeah. And therefore, what can I get done so that when I come back, things move further forward? So it helps you prioritize, set some urgency. And I think if you can run your day every day like that, wherever you work, it will give you a better start.

Yeah. I still can't believe I was late to this.

Nor can I. Brilliant that you were. No, that, I don't know where it is. Maybe I'll add it to the YouTube channel just to show people the countdown.

How important is saying no when it comes to good time management and why do you think that some leaders struggle with that?

Not, well, I think, look, generally people are people pleasers and they, and so they should be. They want to do a good job. They want to be recognized for being good. They're worried about their jobs. There's a whole bunch of things that are going on in the background, but it actually works in reverse. I think once you've prioritized things, then you can choose what things you can get done. And getting things done and doing what you say is probably more important than doing too much. Right. So it's counterintuitive. Like, if you— when you talk to people, stick with the holiday theme, and then the plane was late taking off, even though the service was amazing, the only thing they remember is that the plane was late taking off. So, you know, it's important to decide where you're going to place your bets.

Well, yeah, hedge your bets. We're recording this next to Big Ben, if that hasn't been made clear already with Gary's excellent camera skills. You know, the sort of symbol, ultimate symbol of precision and timing. But I think it's fair to say that being on time isn't necessarily the same as managing time well. What do you think the differences are between that? You know, it's not— being good at time management isn't always about turning up on time, is it?

No, it isn't. So let's cover both. So being on time is really important because I think it sets your credibility. So people who know me will know that annoyingly, if I say I'm there, I'll be there and I'll stay to the end. And when I do training courses, I talk to people about it and they try and catch me out. Like, I think they try and trip me up so I can't get back in time. So I think that's one thing to say. So it just sets a level of credibility and predictability, right? And the second part of the question is Why does it matter in business? Well, if you think about it, I think you made the point already, George, that there's so much going on. We have less time because there's more stuff and you've got to filter it, I guess. So therefore you've got to be more efficient with what you're doing, how long you spend on something, because actually you've got less— you have less time and more stuff to get through. Yeah. So if you don't, you're just going to fall over. Yeah. And just from most companies, are inefficient because they've just, they've grown organically. And what I mean by that is that over time they've just done things as they always did things and they haven't got time to even think about maybe there's a better way.

Yeah.

So sometimes you've got to stop. If you're like a lumberjack, you've got to maybe sharpen your axe and maybe you can chuck down more trees than if you kept on going. You'll maybe stop and think.

Nice. I like the lumberjack analogy. And it actually leads me on quite nicely to my my next question, which is how important do you think it is for leaders to protect thinking time in their diary and how can they make it non-negotiable? You know, you're talking about how do we sort of reassess things and look at things from a different way. But if you feel like you haven't ever got time to do that, then that becomes impossible. How do you protect that time and make sure that everybody knows that that's the time for you, that you're sort of thinking about sort of bigger picture, blue sky stuff?

Great question. And, you know, I think the answer is counterintuitive. But if you want to get more time, you've got to spend time. And I recommend that people spend 20% of their time thinking and planning because you'll be more efficient in doing that. Everyone jumps into things. We're in the world where our bosses want our numbers quickly. Everyone wants things really fast. And because of that, we jump into things without considering, is there a better way, or should we actually do it at all? Yeah. You know, people respond to proposals when they've got no chance of winning them. Salespeople go to calls that have got no chance and then we miss the good stuff. So I think if you spend 20% of your time, which is one day a week, not all in one day, thinking and planning, you'll be more efficient. So weirdly, spend time to get time. Nice. T-shirt.

T-shirt. Spend time to make, yeah, well, it's a bit like you gotta spend money to make money. Yeah, yeah. And actually the comparison between time and money, obviously people use those comparisons quite a lot because they're both precious and people put a lot of effort into into using them. You, as we've said, coach a lot of leaders and you speak to a lot of business leaders, possibly about this topic. If you could change one daily habit in most leaders that you coach to give them back an extra hour, what would it be?

Well, here's a— what's that? We're going for time? Yeah, okay. Here's a tip. Yeah, and it's connected to to-do lists. So, you know, basically everyone struggles with how do I put my list of to-dos and do I buy an app and make it happen? Yeah, you know, I just start with an analog way. Just write down what you want to do tomorrow. And at the end of each day, spend time working out what you did well, what you could do better, and what's important. And if you're brave enough, and we've done this challenge before, find someone you really respect. Yeah. And tell them what you're going to do for 30 days. Do this for 30 days and send them a text when you've done it. Yeah. Don't tell them what you've done. They won't care. But you're holding yourself accountable because I think what you said at the beginning, George, is the reason that people make it for their flights. Yeah. Is it's important enough. So how can you make the things you need to do in the time that you take to do it important enough, even when they're not exciting, for you to do it? And part of the way of doing that is to commit to something. Some people care about if they've told someone they're going to do it, they're going to do it. So if you can commit to something with someone you respect, Yeah, but if you do it for 30 days, it will become a habit and become part of your DNA.

Not for everyone.

Some people, they'll always be looking for that lime bike park.

I think, I think early on in our podcasting careers, I did actually try this method and I think I failed.

Did you? Because you didn't get past 3 days.

I didn't get past 3 days. Yeah, but I can see why it's an excellent thing and I recommend it to everybody. You also cleverly answered my next question there. So I'm going to sort of, I'm going to go back a little bit. And ask you this, and you know, this is probably up for discussion and you may have covered it slightly already, but a lot of people will swear by sort of rigid schedules and a lot of other people swear by flexibility. Have you got an opinion on which approach produces better results in terms of time management, or do you think it is very much up to the individual?

Yeah, it's a good question. I think the starting point is motivation. We've talked about that because you've got to wanna, and if you don't wanna, then you won't, right? Yeah. And we've proved that with a holiday analogy. Yeah. Then the second bit is what we've spoken about on another podcast called MVP.

Remember that?

Yes, I do. And for those of you who don't know what MVP is, it's basically minimum viable product. So when people are developing products in the olden days, they just have a schedule and it was sequential. They keep adding things to it. So if you wanted something new, you have to wait 18 months to put it in. Yeah. But if you're MVP, it's sometimes it's good enough and then you can move forward and you would do more things. And then maybe you can multitask a bit more. Yeah. And do more things at once. So make it— don't be a complete finisher. Think about where you could be more MVP, where things are good enough, that's maybe okay and you get more done.

Yeah, nice. And in terms of getting, you know, in the frame of getting things, more things done, you know, a lot of people confuse that idea of being busy with being productive. I think we have touched on it in previous episodes. How do you help people break that mindset of busyness equaling productivity?

I think if people focus on the outcome, yeah, a lot of times we don't focus on the outcome, we focus on the task. We must be in London, it's like, yeah, they focus on the task. Don't focus on the task, focus on the outcome, yeah, and then work back. Because if the outcome is important enough, you have to prioritize it, then try and work out, is there a faster way to get that done? How much of it do you actually need to do? But more importantly, can you get someone else to help you with it? Because if you, if you look at everything in front of you, you'll never do it because because it's too important and too busy. So, um, yeah, if you think— if you're a manager, for example, can you get other people to help you do the work? That's the true art of delegation. Yeah, not dumping on them, getting them involved. And if you're working as a consultant, can you get the customer to help you do work? Or if you're in a friendship group, can you get other people to do work? Yeah. So that's what I would recommend, try and share the workload.

It doesn't make you less efficient, it doesn't make you a weaker leader asking for sort of support in things, does it?

No, I think what makes you weaker is trying to do everything and saying yes to everything and then not delivering, because then your credibility's shot. Yeah. The biggest issue people have is they don't do what they say, and they give you the excuse as to why they can't, and I get it, but they still didn't do it. They still didn't make their plane for holiday. You can, you can tell the person at the check-in desk that I couldn't park my bike, but they don't care because the plane's gone.

Yeah, yeah, well, I know you're right, and it is often, it's often not just a one-off, isn't it? I mean, I think with some, a lot of people are just sort of hardwired and this, you know, what we're trying to do is break that.

Make it part of your DNA.

Yeah, exactly.

Maybe set yourself a goal and say, for the next 3 things, I'm just going to be early. And because again, it is not the be-all and end-all to be on time or be early, but it makes you feel good and people notice. I remember years ago before I was married, I went out with a girl and I used to turn up at 8 o'clock and she said, you're always on time, do you park around the corner? And I went, of course I don't, I'm not that stupid, but I did. 'Cause I just wanted to make an impression.

Yeah, nice.

Probably thought I was a nerd. Yeah.

Which I am. Surely not, surely not. Timekeeping-wise, I'm keeping an eye on the time. I think we've got time for a couple more questions.

Yeah, go for it. These are great, George. You're doing a great job. That's right. So we just pan back into, we're not doing much walking, we are?

No, we haven't done, let's do a little bit of cursory walking. Probably gonna keep panning. Quite a few people panning in here and there. Let's get out of the way of this. Not as important as us. No, absolutely not. A couple of personal questions now. We'll just actually, one personal question. How do you, 'cause you are, as you say, you know, you are known for your timekeeping, punctuality, doing, as you say, commitment, etc. How do you personally prioritize? You know, you're not a non-busy person, so how do you personally prioritize when everything feels urgent?

So here's an interesting one, right? The best person to give tasks to is someone that's busy. This is going to sound really odd because busy people get stuff done. They don't kind of sit and go, right, how much time I'm going to spend for this or that. They just— they're kind of in the mode of making things happen. So ironically, the way I work is the same. You know, I work out what's important, but it's inside me. So I get kind of twitchy if I don't get things done. That's why they call me Airport Gary in my family, because I want to get to the airport. I don't want to be late. I don't want to be under pressure, but I know I need to be there. And then it becomes part of my DNA inside my gut.

It just starts to get a little I don't know, a little butterfly. Yeah.

So I think busy people are busy because they get things done. So if you're not one of those people and you're analyzing how much time you spend on something, then you've got the wrong mindset.

Interesting. And if you are, you know, if you're a leader or you're a manager and you want to get a task done, seek out the people who seem to be busy and efficient and sort of bustle around getting, getting, you know, taking names as opposed to the people that are sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to pick The people that don't have it, and I'm doing it so anyone I know, are people that tell you how busy they are.

Oh, you don't realize how busy I've been today. And if you're a manager, by the way, and you tell people, just between you and I, no one cares. Yeah. In fact, yeah, it works. It's a bit repelling. But don't tell people how busy you are. Just get on with it. And because you're not doing it to get credibility or to get credit, you're doing it because you want to get stuff done. So, you know, it's just something to look out for. People that tell you they're busy, yeah, over-analyzing, and they're probably not being efficient.

Absolutely. And the people who are genuinely busy and efficient, you know who they are anyway, because it's obvious. Okay, last question, I think. Have we covered everything that you wanted to cover? Have I missed out on everything?

You say is amazing, George. I hope that the last one's a big one though.

A Big Ben one. It's a Big Ben one. No, I think we have touched on it already, and maybe there's a different way of looking at it. But yeah, before we both go back to our day jobs, If time management is really about life management, which is sort of what we're saying. Yes. What's one thing that you wish everyone listening at home would do differently tomorrow morning?

Hmm. That's a really good question to ask me. I haven't an obvious answer for it, but if I think about myself, we could walk while we— Just walk and talk and listen. If I think about myself.

Yeah.

I, I'm a firm believer, you know, my personal brand is about Do what I say and be on time. And they're actually connected. Aha. Because if I say I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. So decide yourself. I mean, again, it has to be important to you. There's no point me telling you that you want to be on time. Yeah, but decide yourself and then do it. Because if your personal brand is to be on time and you're always late, then your personal brand means nothing because that's not your personal brand. So maybe decide. Yeah, hopefully we've convinced people that being on time is important. And using time efficiently is important. So then maybe for the next week, think about all the things you're having to work on and say, is there a better way? Can I improve the time I spend it? Should I spend any time on it at all? Should I prioritize just for a week? Yeah. And maybe keep a log and see if you'd be more efficient as a result of that later. Yeah.

Nice. And I think it's worth remembering that time, good time management and punctuality and following through on what you've said is impressive. And it's a really attractive trait in people generally, but also people that you work with, colleagues, people that you manage, people who manage you, you know, it instantly sort of sets you apart because it's not an easy thing necessarily to do. But once you've made that decision, it sort of, it can be quite life-changing in the way that people perceive you.

Definitely agree. But you've got to want to do it. Yeah. But yeah, I think the, hopefully we sold people on the idea that the value is massive.

Absolutely. Well, listen, I better go and get my Lime bike. And get back to the meeting that I'm already late for.

I'm pretty late myself now, mate. George gets me side late.

But thank you, Gary. This has been great. I love these walk and talks.

Me too, even though we weren't walking that much. But I'm just trying to get Big Ben in the shot.

I know, it's been so great.

Great questions, George. Timely questions.

Thank you.

And hopefully we'll see you all again soon.

Thanks, everybody. See you soon. Bye.