Being Ghosted? Here’s Why (and What to Do About It) #99

After all, all art is experience. Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor, where today we're talking all about being ghosted. Now, being ghosted isn't just about being tragically ignored on dating apps. It's actually an equally frustrating reality in business as well. Whether it's a client who suddenly stops replying, a deal that goes quiet after a promising start, or an email thread that sputters into silence like a spooky old candle, Ghosting can leave you second-guessing yourself and wondering what went wrong. So listen on as Gary and I unpack the real reasons behind business ghosting, how to tell if it's really a no or just bad timing, and most importantly, what you can actually do about it. You say a painter, painter.

George.

Hello.

Sorry, did I scare you?

You did a bit.

Oh, sorry. We're talking about being ghosted.

Nice. How's that? You know what, it's been—

very cheesy start.

It's been a while since we've been on firm ground and sort of stationary. So I think that that's taken me by surprise. That scared me along with today's topic, which is being ghosted, which we're going to get into. We've been talking about doing it for a while and I think, yeah, I'm very excited. I get ghosted all the time.

I think actually I think you've, you've been ghosting me on this because we've been talking about this for a while.

I think you were ghosting me.

Everyone we've spoken to. Oh, maybe. But that's part of the That's part of the gig today. Who's ghosting who? Yeah.

And why? Well, you sent me your notes as you, as you do, this time typed out, which I appreciated, as opposed to—

it will be the last time. Yeah, sure, because I'm not used to this level of depth.

No, because we've been doing the Walking Talks, which if you haven't seen, by the way, those listening at home, do check them out. They're videos of us walking and talking, as the name suggests, and they are on YouTube as well as on various other platforms. But this time It's just us and we're, we're, we're sitting down.

Old firm brand, as you said.

And we're prepped and we're talking ghosting. Gary, your notes, as I say, excellent stuff. They haven't made me any sort of wiser on the topic, so I'm hoping this one does.

Good to hear. Good to hear. So we're getting back to that format where we've got 3 topics and I have actually got 3 takeaways. Oh, not had that for a while.

God, that almost brings back memories. Makes me feel nostalgic.

Makes you emotional, doesn't it? Yeah, we've got 3 takeaways at the end. So the gig for you listening people is stay to the end because all the good stuff's coming, but you've got to stay to the end. So the first, you know, the topic is being ghosted. Here's why so many people have spoken to us about this, and this is mainly in the workplace. But to be honest, if this is happening in your social life, you never know, it might help. But, and we were going to record this outside the London Dungeons because about the ghosting, but we didn't. But, um, yeah, the first topic is, is very much around the forensics of ghosting. It's like So are they saying no or have they just not got back to me? It's the silent no versus the maybe.

But just before we go on, we're talking about, obviously it's a broad topic, but we're talking about business here. We're talking about, you know, closing deals. And if you are in a sort of negotiation or in a conversation with someone where you're trying to get something from them, they just haven't got back to you and we're trying to get to the bottom of why.

Yeah, but it's not just deals, it's a business context, but it could be you sent, you know, How many times has someone sent an email, didn't get a response, or called someone, didn't get a callback? It's the whole business interaction where you may be being ghosted. And by the way, it might be your fault, but it may not. That's what we're going to uncover.

Could be you. Unlikely to be me, but you know. Unlikely to be you personally.

I didn't mean you, obviously, George. Yeah, so just to kick it off, just to set the scene before you ask me your killer questions, which you will do. I think that, yeah, the thing that's on people's minds in the business situation is if I'm being ghosted, as in people are not responding to whatever it is, and we're talking about the different things anyway, is it me or is it them? And then people conjure up a whole drama around this because if I get back to them, am I being too pushy and will I annoy people more or don't they like me? Yeah. There's a whole kind of internal conversation going on. And so just to help people, and this is my scene setup, but I'll let you ask me those killer questions. Most silence is one of four things. And they may, by the way, if they may not like you, no offense, I'm sure that isn't the case. I mean, you personally, anyone listening, it may be you, but let's presume it's not. And I'm going to take you through different situations where you are close with someone and they still didn't respond to you. But there's only four things that happen apart from not liking you. One is they haven't got the time or the bandwidth. The second one is no priority. The third one's no safety and the first one's no power. Right. Yeah. My thoughts on this is if they've invested effort or time or brought other people into it with you before going quiet, then you should assume it isn't a rejection. It's not you. Right. It may end up being a rejection, but it's not you. If you've invested the effort and they've kind of committed to something with you, before they've gone quiet, it's less likely to be you.

So if the wheels are in motion, things are, you know, as you say, people are being brought in as part of this, that's a good sign. And it suggests that a silence isn't your fault. It's not, you know, it's something else that's gone on sort of peripherally.

Correct. Now it may still be a rejection, but it's not, it's not you. Yeah. Yeah. Might be you, but it's probably not. On most cases, I would say that would be the case. Okay. Is that good news?

I think that is good news. Yeah. You know what? I'm funnily enough, not, I didn't actually engineer this episode, but I am in a situation where this sort of advice might actually help me from a work perspective. So yeah, what are the odds?

I know where these questions are coming now. I've got it. I've got it.

So this is actually genuinely very useful. And, you know, I think seeing other people being brought in and those wheels being in motion as a positive sign is a good thing. Definitely good advice. And when you say so, no bandwidth, I understand the other three. If you could just talk us through what you mean by no priority, no safety, and no power.

Yeah, definitely. And then I'll give you a little bit of a tip about how you can test which one it is. Because what you don't want to do is just like jump on all of them. But no bandwidth means that they don't have time, basically. Yeah. Or they're juggling too many things. It's not a priority. But that's the second one. Don't have time. The no priority is the compelling event for them isn't big enough or important enough. Yeah. Which is a really important thing to know. So you may be down the pegging order. No safety is that They have trouble internally getting this done. They don't want to look stupid, so they haven't kind of gone all out on it because they're worried. And the no power is they're not empowered. Right. So you may think they are and they're not, and they won't tell you they're not. But here's the thought, right? So you should test one variable at a time. And one way of doing it, and you have to be comfortable to do this in the right time, is say to them by some means, just a quick sense check, has the priority changed or is the timing off? Because if the problem's still alive, then you've got a chance of taking it forward, right? But it's a kind of a nice polite way of checking.

Yeah.

Not the next day, the half hour afterwards. Have you read it yet? Yeah. Have you come back to me yet?

I suppose timing is quite important, isn't it, with this sort of stuff? You have to have a bit of a feel for when you don't leave it too long. But as you say, you don't want to send a proposal and then 15 minutes later say, you know, has the priority changed or is the timing off?

Correct. And also, by the way, timing is important for a number of reasons, but one of them is it's the timing of you sending something or asking them something. Like if someone's just about to go on holiday or they've had an escalation or something really important happen or they've had a problem in their family or something that you know about. Choose your moment for timing. But then the other one is, and we're going to talk about it later, how to know when to nudge or to nix, as we're calling it in this episode.

Good stuff. Good start. Strong start. Strong.

Yeah. Now I'm in your hands now.

Well, I don't know if you are because you've got some excellent notes here, which I was hoping you could sort of just— Yeah.

The second thing for taking this through, and I think it's a learning point, is when the— if it is a deal and it goes quiet, it's often— it is our fault. Having said it wasn't your fault before, it's not they don't like you, but it's our fault because It's like the wrong message, the wrong timing, the wrong person. And there's a little saying that I use, which is customer ghost comes from heavy lifts and fuzzy value. It's like missing the target, if you like. Because if you can't state the return on investment, the risk and the time and the impact, it suffocates the deal because they can't relate it back to what you're offering. Right. So you've kind of blown it because you've given the wrong message at the wrong time. The wrong person, maybe.

And I guess you don't know that until you ask the right questions, one of which is this, this sort of sense check that you've given us. Yeah.

And I think you can do that as part of the conversation, which is, I think the clearest point about this is you've got to have value. If you're not offering value, a lot of people don't realize that they're not getting a response because what you're talking about isn't value. It might be value to you. It's like I speak to a lot of consultants and they say, I wrote a proposal, didn't have the courtesy to come back to me. Which is disappointing because it's not very professional, but I get it. But yeah, it probably means more to them than it means to you. So it's on number 1 on your priority list because you want the money. Yeah. But it's like number 15 on their priority list because they've got so many things going on and would like to do it, but they haven't got time or— Yeah. You know, you've got to look through the lens of the person that you're communicating with.

And that's just, you know, the last episode we were doing a bit of a sort of a mindset shift. And I think this is that same sort of thing, isn't it? You have to, as you say, put yourself in the mind of the person who's probably got 10 proposals coming at them at least a week, plus all the other stuff going on. You know, they are prioritizing and you fall somewhere on that priority list, but it may not be number one. But so for you, every minute you're checking your inbox, you know, they're busy off doing other things.

Yeah. And when you do that, this conjures up a vision for me, which is like you go to the front door of the house, open up and see if anyone's coming. Every 5 minutes. Yeah, because that's how desperate it is. So you just got to relax into it a little bit. And when a sponsor does go quiet, I've got a little bit of a breakthrough tip.

You want to hear it?

I do indeed. I think a lot of the time silence means I can't defend this yet. So part of the gig is to provide some kind of proof on a page so that the, the yes is career safe. But you asked me at the beginning, career safe means that Sometimes people don't like to make decisions if they'll get into trouble for it or they look stupid or they can't. So making it career safe is a way of making them look good so that they feel comfortable to champion your whatever. Nice. So what you could do is provide the, a kind of a one-pager on what this is trying to do and why it would be good for them. Or you could do something like offer a low-risk pilot in the next 30 days and put in the outcome, the scope, and the proof. Okay. Because you've given them a chance to try it. Maybe, you know, why don't we just give it a go? It might be for free or something. I'm just— I don't know what you've offered, so it depends on what it is. But offering something with outcome, scope, and proof, because then they can show someone else that they did this and it worked. Yeah. But, but I think if there's a— if you've got a long-time customer, someone you've got a really good relationship and they go radio silent on you, my read is that the value has slipped, or there's a new boss, or the budget blew up, or there's a rival in the background you didn't know about. There's the sort of things that are going on in the background. But the value slipped is the one. Yeah, maybe it didn't slip at all. Maybe it wasn't high enough value in the first place.

Yeah, I really like that, what you said about following up with a sort of almost like a one-pager. Because I think also, again, obviously depending on what it is that we are proposing, A lot of proposals are sort of 30, 40, 50 slides of a deck, and that just sits in someone's inbox as a sort of, as a really daunting thing to have to try and wade through. And people will invariably put it off, and that will come across as being ghosted or being silent. Whereas actually, if you follow up and say, listen, appreciate that that's quite a hefty proposal. Here's a sort of whittled-down version of it to whet your appetite. And then if you're, you know, and if that's piquing your interest, dive into the full thing. That's quite a nice follow-up.

Yeah, that is. And again, we're going to talk about how long you should wait to do things, give you a bit of a game plan for that. But the other thing is don't, don't get all upset and bump it and go, oh, it's not working out. Yeah. Get over yourself about being disappointed. It's just the way it is. Depends on your brand. If you're in a big company with a big brand, then you're more likely to get a response. Yeah. I've been in both with and without and You've got to work on your personal brand and reputation. That will help you. Yeah. But don't get all upset about it. Just, there's a solution. It might always end well, but I've got a little solution that will help you tomorrow, whoever you are, with anything that's not moving along, it's stuck in treefall somewhere. There's something I call a four-path fork. Think about a fork, a knife and fork. Yeah. It's got four prongs on it. You can ask the customer which one these things can I help you with? But has the priority moved? Is there a new sponsor that needs context? Did the budget freeze? Were we outflanked by someone? Okay. If you've got a strong enough relationship, it's similar to the last thing we just spoke about. You could ask, you know, just catching up with you. I don't want to drive you mad. I know you're busy. Yeah. This would be better on the phone or text if you've got WhatsApp with someone. But which is the closest so I can be useful with you? Has the priority moved? Is there a new sponsor in this context? Did the budget freeze or have we been outflanked? And then normally people will tell you.

Yeah, because you've given them the option, haven't they? At that point, you've given them the language almost to communicate it, whereas they might be struggling to sort of say the reason for whatever, you know, for whatever reason it is. You've given them the tools to respond, which I like. And you've described these as face-saving forks, which I like.

Face-saving forks. Yeah, because it is face-saving in that you give them the out, you give them the option to go. Yeah, you were outflanked. We're just really busy right now and it was important, but it's good that something else has come up. Yeah. Or I've got a new boss and he wants to kick everything up and start all over again. So give us a couple of weeks and we'll sort it out. Yeah.

And as you say, if it's a long-term partner or a long-term customer, this is probably better done, you know, hi, can we meet for lunch or can we go for a coffee and talk this through?

Yeah. And you're not always, you don't always have that relationship where you can do it. So. No, I just want to help everyone with ghosting because sometimes it is. But we were talking about ghosting where you know someone well. Yeah, because it happens somewhere. Now if, if, uh, let's move to the second part because the second part I call response feng shui.

Feng shui. By the way, just before we do, I do really like those four, those four forks.

So you like those forks?

Yeah, I do.

You make you hungry?

I'm— yeah, I just had my lunch yesterday. I used a, I used a non-face-saving fork. Stabbed myself a few times accidentally. But I think we should, you know, let's make sure that for the listeners at home, we'll, you know, we'll pull those out in the show notes, those 4 forks, because I do think they are quite handy.

A little compliment in there somewhere. That's brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully they're helpful. Yeah, they're kind of important but lighthearted enough that you could feel comfortable talking about them and get an honest answer.

Really useful. So the Feng Shui.

Feng Shui. Is that how you pronounce it? Is it Shui or Shay?

Feng Shui is what I would say.

Feng Shui. Sorry to anyone I've insulted while we're doing this recording, but everyone gets it. So it's kind of the response DNA. It's like getting into the, into the vibe. I want to get you into the vibe of response. I think if you start on the, on the basis that people won't respond to you, then anything that happens is a bonus. Don't get upset they didn't call you. How nasty are they? I spent so much time on it. Don't worry, get over it. But if you get into the Feng Shui, there's a It's a chess move. Think of it as a chess move. And if you don't play chess and you don't know what I'm talking about, then I don't know. I'm sorry. Snakes and ladders. I don't know. But what's your next move to get through this? So if a customer, you know, disappears on you after they've had a verbal yes, which is one of the most annoying and it is very common. So you send a proposal, you, the customer, you met this customer and they loved you and they said, well, we've gotta get together, speak to my, my secretary or arrange it. And then you contact them and they don't, they don't respond. I've got a 72-hour rescue plan. Love it. I know, only 72 hours.

That's great.

You like it? Yeah, I do. The reason it's 72 hours is that the thread of all of this episode is try your best to be consistent but not annoying. Yeah. You've got to be consistent but not annoying because if you are, it's very easy to be annoying slash desperate.

Desperate's a real turnoff.

Yeah, it's turn off, it's repelling. You know our analogy of running into Trafalgar Square with a loaf of bread and chucking it at the birds? Even though they want the bread, they don't want it thrown at them. Yeah. You put your hand out and they go eat out your hands, right? Like you do that.

Very, very kindly and gently, yeah.

So if, you know, this is a situation where someone's being positive with you, but then they verbally said yes to whatever you asked them to do. Yeah. But then they've gone quiet on you. My advice to you is a post-yes, if we want to call it that, a post-yes death.

Gosh, sounds like a band.

A post-yes death is entropy. It's not intent. Do you know what I mean by entropy?

You know what, embarrassingly, and I will admit this because I'm not a proud man.

You work at a newspaper, for God's sake.

I know, I had to look it up. I had to look it up.

And what did you find?

Well, it gave me two definitions. One was quite scientific and I don't think it's that, whereas the other one was a sort of a bit of a decline into disorder.

Yeah, it's on the verges of being unorganized and flaky all in one. Like, I didn't get my act together, but it's the polite way of saying that. Yeah, it's more likely to be as in it's them, not you. It's not intent. I'm not intending not to come back to you. I'm not ghosting you because I'm avoiding you. I'm ghosting you because I didn't get my act together. Yeah, I haven't got to it yet.

I'm more unorganized.

I'm a bit flaky. I'm none of those, but it's not intentional. I will get— if, if, when all the stars align, I am planning on getting back to you. Yeah. And I think if you come from that mindset, because again, back to what we said at the beginning, people go through this kind of mental movie about, oh, it's not going to work, they're not coming back to me, they don't like me, and it's not going to happen. And they kind of talk themselves out of it. And then when they speak to the customer or the person or whoever, they just sound defeated and desperate. Yeah. And then you get what you expect, right? Yeah. Good and bad. So that's the danger.

You get what you expect. I think a lot of people, I think without knowing it, you've probably been on the other side of this as well. You've probably been the person accidentally or through entropy ghosting someone else, whether that's socially or professionally or whatever. So if you can, and then when you get called out on it or when you get reminded or nudged, as we'll come on to, you think, oh God, yeah, of course. I meant to get back to you ages ago, or I meant to engage with you on this, but it slipped down my priority list and then it disappeared from my inbox. And I think sometimes a well-placed nudge, as I say, which we are going to talk about, well-placed reminder is enough to actually sort of put you in better stead than you might have been originally.

Well, we've got people listening, hang on to section 3 because we've got some intergalactic nudges that are going to make change your life., but you have to hang on for them. But the second part to this, so when you're— I did say 72-hour rescue plan.

Yeah.

When you get a post-yes death, entropy, not intent, you, you kind of need artifacts that people can forward that provide some kind of momentum, not pressure. And we'll talk about them in part 3 to come back to you. But what you can do with this 72-hour plan is send this one-pager I call it a, a mutual action plan, or a MAP if you like, which is basically got, you know, milestones, owners, a bit of a game plan on a page. Yeah. And then what you can do is just set up a meeting to talk about that. I've come up with some ideas, come up with a mutual action plan. Let's get on the phone, let's have a quick chat. You don't have to close them on the phone.

Yeah. Is this the mutual action plan? Is that what we've talked about which is like a sort of condensed version of what you sent already, or is this an evolution of that? Or is it like a, based on what I've sent you, I think this is what should happen next?

Because this is a, this stage we're talking about is when the customer disappears after they've said a yes. Mm-hmm. Then it's more action-oriented, whereas the other one was pre them saying yes. Right. Yeah. You're trying to get to the point where they say yes. Now we move further along the cycle where they're gone. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. I love that. But then they go quiet on you. So the idea of this is to, to revisit that with a one-page action plan, but arrange a call because they didn't respond to your last email, so they might not respond to this one. If someone's got— by the way, a little tip— if someone's got a PA or an EA, uh, personal assistant or executive assistant, sometimes they do, or someone looks after their diary, copy them in and get them to set the meeting up. Because people that have a PA or EA don't organize their own diaries, not because they're so important, just because they don't. Time. And then a lot of the delay is because they forgot to tell their PA to set up the follow-up meeting with you. And that just kind of gets things into it. I've got into so many diaries by just talking to the EA, PA. Really?

That's just something you just don't think about. So yeah, those are sort of tips we need.

And not everyone has one, right? So it's not relevant in all situations. But yeah, just sometimes I'll send a note to the EA copy the person, do it the other way around, saying, you know, I know that George was keen to get back together with me. Can you get me some dates, please?

Yeah, yeah.

He's given you permission already. He said yes, you got the yes. So, go next. Yeah, close the deal, dude. It's not only about selling things, by the way. This is just following through on anything that— where— but someone said yes. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely it does. Because, and it's, as you say, it's different from trying to get the yes in the first place. And I think, again, I've been in a situation where we've had a verbal yes and then nothing. So you sort of, as you say, want to follow up with a Thanks for saying yes to that. Here's what I think should happen next. Let's, let's chat.

And I think it's the same with email. Have you ever sent an email that just didn't get a reply? Yeah, loads. Isn't that frustrating? Why do emails die in the inbox?

I don't know. You know what? I think it's a priority thing of those 4 Ns that we were talking about earlier. I think it's a priority problem. It certainly is with me. I think because I've definitely been guilty, you know, for every email that I've sent that's been ignored. I've probably ignored a couple myself.

That's a good insight, George, actually, for a bit of self-awareness. For most people that— for everyone actually that's had a problem, someone responding, we've done the same. Yeah, it might be worth reflecting why we've done that and what would have changed our minds. You know what, that's a really good thought. I like that. But for the— just a quickie on the emails for people, because we need to get to keep moving, a couple of tips for you. And you'll have emails that do get response. The title is really important. To get the right title. And the psychology is important as well. So if you send to a group, then the psychology is everyone presumes it's for someone else. That's why you get a lot of mail marketing that has Gary George, here's a message for you. So don't do that. But basically, if I've got important things, I send it independently to individuals. Yeah, but the title is important, and don't send it to a group. And then as a follow-up, you know, just give them some options. Again, if you can speak to a PA or something like that, yeah, or just say I've had a few more ideas, give them another reason, show the value. You know, sometimes it's that there's not enough value in your message. They— why would they care? Yeah, think about why they would care, and we'll show you the nudges in a minute.

And in terms of the title of the subject, that should be very sort of specific to what it is you're talking about. You know, you saw you say make it a good one. Do you have any tips on how to cut through? Because that is— I mean, it is a tricky one. Yeah, I struggle.

Yeah, it's a hard one because it's not like a marketing slogan.

Yeah.

But a good example is if I wanted to invite, say, you know, we do quite a lot of exec dinners and the title I use for the exec dinner and I send it individually to people, I don't send out a group, we've got dinner, please come, is I say personal invitation as my title. Oh, nice. And more people open that. Yeah. And I think you have to play around with things, but that's it. You just want to make it feel like just don't put follow up in your email. Title. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could say I've had a eureka moment or something, or something a bit more interesting.

How do you feel about people that put urgent or please read in little brackets before?

Please avoid.

Yeah.

I hate that. Please avoid, please read, and urgent.

Great. Okay, I agree.

Yeah, so just a few ideas about that. But just as a last comment, then we'll move to the third section, is that if there's no owner and no consequence, then silence wins, yeah? So inaction is a design flaw. If nobody owns a decision, there's no default. Silence wins.

Right.

So you've got to have a consequence of or a value of. Yeah. That makes sense. It's like inaction is a design flaw. If nobody owns a decision, there's no default, then silence wins.

But how do you make sure that there is?

Well, that's it. It's in the words that you choose. So it's back to value. Yeah. Can you find the value of— sometimes you're probably listening to this thinking, Do me a favor. I mean, sometimes sending an email is not that important. It is important if you need a response. Yeah. If you don't need a response, then it isn't important. But if you need someone to materially do something, you've got to frame what the value is. Yeah. And ask a decision because otherwise silence will always win. A lot of the reason— in the third section, we're going to talk about how to evaluate why things aren't happening for you so we can be honest. Yeah. But maybe we should go to it.

Let's go to it.

Let's do it.

I'm excited about it. I do agree with that final point. I think that, you know, you have to, you have to pin people, you know, that's what this is all about, isn't it? It's the art of sort of eliciting a response. Did you say pin?

No. You're gonna pin for your response.

That's next week's episode, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah, maybe. I quite like that. And maybe I should change the title. This is the biggie now. You've been hung on this long. Headline act. Big, big focus. Negotiate, nudge, or nix. You like it?

I do like it. I like the nix especially. I haven't seen that used much at all, actually.

Nix is kind of American, isn't it, really? Yeah. We've done an episode on nudge or nudge, right? But I'm going to bring it back in again because there's a fine line between nudge and nudge. Remember what nudge means?

It's sort of, it's the annoying version of nudge, isn't it? Nudge is what you want to do. Nudge is sort of being a pest.

Yeah, it's poking someone in the face.

Oh, right.

Yeah. Well, it's not, it's not what it means. Yeah. But it's kind of what it is. Yeah. So nudging is just like, like a wasp. You ever sat out, you know, having a nice barbecue and the wasp is nudging you? Yeah. To the point where you, even a calm person gets angry.

Mm-hmm.

That's what people are doing when they're nudging.

Right.

So there's a fine line between nudging and nudging. And I want to give you some ideas that break through without being annoying. 'Cause it's being annoying is the problem.

Let me tell you one very quick annoying thing, which I think no one should do, which is, and I get this a lot actually on LinkedIn. People would message me and say, hey George, just bringing this back to the top of your inbox. I'm like, ah, just bumping this to the top of your inbox. It's like, no, I've left it down there for a reason.

Yeah, no, that's a really good one. Well, it's not a good one, but it's a good point.

It's an annoyance. Yeah, that's a nudge, I'd say.

It is absolutely a nudge. So let's talk about some nudges. Yeah. Here's the kind of enchilada, the whole thing together in a kind of sentence. But The goal of nudging is to provide value to the person that you're trying to nudge, not at the end, but all the way through. So therefore, it's about how do I remind someone of the value without being annoying, but making a nudge? And so the way to do that is to rotate the channel that you use, but do it consistently enough that you can keep going on the journey without being annoying. And the nix is knowing when to not do it anymore and stop and go away.

It's a tricky dance, isn't it?

It is. I've got an idea for it.

You ready for it? This is what we're here to help with. Yeah. You're the dance master.

Here's the dance master. I've got this. Do this today. 20-day cadence and an off-ramp at the end.

Okay. Love it. Sounds very pro.

Yeah. I've got lots of American words into it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Off-ramp. Gary Gamp gives the ramp. You ready for it? Yeah. Okay, the first thing you do is, is obviously start this if it's an email or whatever, right? Just say day zero, you send them email, but it's a value email. You with me on that? Yeah. You've, you've managed to articulate the value. It's not about the— just a little tip for people listening— it's not about you, it's about them. And it sounds odd because you think it is about you, and it technically is, but when you're trying to communicate with someone, it's not about you, it's about them. Look through their lens. Make sure that it resonates with them. Yeah. Okay, ready? Yeah. And days 7 to 10, not more towards 10 than 7, this is after you've been ghosted, right? Yeah. Voicemail. Okay, just catching up, hope you're well, had a few other ideas about what I send you. Yeah, you're good to catch up, let me know when it's good. Ready? Day 12 to 14, I'll send them something. And by the way, here's a nice analog thing to send. Instead of sending someone an email, print it off. I'm going to really upset people now because of the environment. Print it off and post it to them. I know, bizarre, right? Who gets a letter at work anymore?

Yeah, I'll be very pleased if I did.

Yeah, well, depending on what it is. Or send someone a book. But here's the key, right? Go to Amazon. By the way, this works so well. It will cost you money, but I guarantee if it's important enough, it's good. Go to Amazon, send a book to the person, and choose the option for gift wrapped. It comes in this velvet bag with your note in it. So, if you've been talking to someone and they said they're going to Vietnam for a trip, send them a book on Vietnam. Say, I hope this helps. Love, Gary.

And no mention of the proposal?

No mention of anything. Just, it's about the value. In the conversation they said, I'm doing a transformation, send them a book on transformation, doesn't matter which one.

This is some Darren Brown stuff, isn't it?

Get it gift wrapped, £3.99 extra, worth every penny. And send them a case study, or, and introduce them to someone in your network. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't have to be something— no, they mentioned they needed some help with an accountant, then just link in with an accountant, say I'd like to introduce you, or send them an email, I'd like to introduce you guys. You know, don't involve me. Have a chat. You'll get on really well. I love you. I respect both of you. Get out of the way. Okay, then day 20. Yeah, I'm not finished yet. I'm still going. It's a journey, right? Yeah. Day 20, direct LinkedIn message. Direct LinkedIn message.

Is this if you still haven't heard anything back at this point?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Day 20, a LinkedIn message or a WhatsApp. And then, and this is the bit that in most cases, even if they don't respond to any of that, it's gonna make you twitch when I say this. I want you to stay loosely in touch on an ongoing basis, but less frequently. Right. 3 monthly. Okay. Because you never know what will happen. Looks like that, if that was a proposal, you ain't gonna get it, but you just keep going, right? Yeah. But don't be annoying and just stay loosely in touch 3 months later. Just checking in, say, you're doing, just keep it loose.

Because you might get something in sort of 8 months' time saying, Gary, so sorry, we had a complete shift in internal structure. There's a new CEO. They've seen this proposal finally and they're really into it. Let's get back around the table and talk about it.

Correct. So I had some, there was a guy that I did that, I did the proposal, I didn't get anything back and I just stayed in touch. Actually, part of the staying in touch actually took him out for lunch. This was over 3 years. Yeah. Towards the end of that 3 years, I was on the phone with him and he was telling me about a particular problem he had. And I said, oh, and you said blah, blah, blah. And I went, hung up. Then I thought, I've got an idea. So I sent him a message back saying, based on what you told me, I've had a eureka moment. This is what I recommend. And he responded straight away and I got the work. Wow. That was 3 years later. Now clearly I wasn't desperate for that money from him. Mm-hmm. Otherwise I wouldn't have had turkey for Christmas. But you've gotta be in it for the long game. As long as you're not annoying, stay in touch. Yeah, yeah. If it's a deal or something that was time-bound, then after, you know, after a period you have to exit and just get over yourself, but you can still stay in touch.

And is that the nix?

Yeah, the nix is just stop putting in your forecast or expecting you've won something or— Yeah, yeah. You know, pretending with yourself that it's going to happen, but still stay in touch because it might— something else might happen or that might come back in again, as you said, George. But, but you've, you've— I I think what people do is they mentally go, I've got this thing running, so then they don't do anything else. And I think it stops you in your career tracks because you, you're banking on it, whatever it is. So it's a way of not banking on it because, you know, maybe it's not going to happen, but you're still— if you separate the people, adding value to a person with the what you want, that's why it's not about you. Yeah, yeah. Then you're still— why would you not still add value to that person because they didn't respond to your proposal? This unless they've never ever, and they don't really want to talk to you, they don't like you. Yeah. But we're talking about people you've got a relationship with of some sort, right?

Yeah. So it's all about this long-term thinking.

It is long-term, exactly that. And here's a tip, here's something I'd like you to do. So people are listening because this will really help you. I'd like you to— here's a challenge for you. Do an autopsy, you know, without the blood, uh, 5 ghosted deals or things that you've sent. What's the good, the bad, and the ugly about them? What did you do? Did you add value? And what would the single change you would make that would help you the most? No, reflecting on it. Mm-hmm. What would it be?

The thing. So 5 times that you've been ghosted.

5 times you've been ghosted by sending an email, making a phone call, sending a proposal, trying to get someone to phone you back. Yeah. What's the good, the bad, and the ugly? What's the one single change you would make that might have improved it? And then what I want you to do is over the next 30 days is put them into practice and fine-tune them and keep your eye on them.

God, it's a whole, it is an art, isn't it? I mean, I think you've got, you have to dedicate— It's a dance.

I think you said it before.

It's a dance. Yeah, it's a dance, but it's sort of, you've really gotta put time and effort into it. And you know, you say things like, oh, You know, day 12 to whatever, send a personal gift-wrapped item or whatever it may be. That takes a lot of thought because I think if you get it wrong, it looks very transparent. But I think if you get it right, then it can be an absolute game changer.

Yeah, and I think it's not right for every situation. No, sure. But it is a dance. And so, yeah, as part of that little challenge I've given you, think about this, right? No meeting without one, a qualified outcome in the, in the invite or in the email, and number two, a dated next step. As in, as part of the same, as part of the same response in that message, you know, it's back to the value and, you know, linking into something. Otherwise, silence, silence wins. Yeah. If you think about it, when a deal goes quiet, how often is it wrong message, wrong timing, wrong person? Yeah. And that's work out, you know, where, where I went wrong.

Okay, nice.

That's kind of the end of it, although I've got some pretty cool takeaways. I hope that gives people a little bit of thought into it. It is a dance, it's not easy, and not everything is important enough to do it. Yeah, but over the years I've learned to be better. If you use NLP, listen to our episode on it, it will give you a much better opportunity to get response.

Yeah, it's great. And I think even if this episode can encourage people to think about it, to think about how to go about this, then I think we've done our job because I think a lot of people will just not get a response and not really evaluate why. They won't look into it. They'll either sulk and sort of chalk it up to experience and be annoyed by it, or they will be annoying and pester, which will be long-term damage for them and potentially for the company they're working for. So I think if we can encourage people to think about it strategically, as you've been talking about, then that's a win for us. Certainly for you anyway, I haven't done much, but what I am excited about are these 3 takeaways. So here they are.

You haven't seen my 3 takeaways. Here are my 3 takeaways, and there are only 3, but they're long. The first one is diagnose before you chase. Label the silence. Remember the 4 nos: no bandwidth, no priority, no safety, no power. And then match how they think. Do they like it visual, auditory, kinetically? Just think of how people like to receive things. And always state a qualified outcome. No quantified outcome, no ask. Number 2, engineer momentum, don't hope for it. Now the whole topic of nudge is about add value at every stage, nudge by providing value pieces without being annoying on a consistent basis. So engineer momentum, don't hope for it, it won't happen. And number 3 is S to the power of 3, S-cubed, here it goes. And this is a really insightful thing for people to think about, design for human nature, design for human nature. So the 3 S's are safe, simple, status. Ghosting thrives on a kind of cognitive load. And a risk, a reputational risk. So make every touchpoint hit the SQ test. Is it safe? Is it simple? And status? Safe means we offer a kind of a reversible pilot of some sort and a clean way to finish. But they know if they don't want it, they can park it and it's okay. Mm-hmm. Simple is, is a, let's give them a choice. It's A or B. I give you 2 time slots, give you a one sentence or a qualified outcome. No, just give them choices. Keep it simple. Don't make it overly complicated. They can't work out what you're asking for. And number 3, status. Arm them with forwardable one-pagers, proof on a page if you like, and wording they can defend with their boss because they'll be happy to take it onward if they can understand it and see the value. And share it without having to try and work it out themselves. And so the rule is, if your message isn't SQ, don't send it. Nice. Yep, and that's it. Help my sponsor look smart, that's what you're there for. And that is ghosting in, hopefully not quite in a nutshell, but being ghosted, here's why. Hopefully you got some whys in there. Yeah. Thanks very much for your question.

And also what to do, what to dos about it, you know?

What to dos?

What to dos about it. And I think, no, that's been incredibly helpful. And I think it is a tricky topic and there is no one size fits all. But I think, as I say, if we can get people thinking about it and sort of employing some of these tactics, you know, S³, I think is fantastic considering the 4 Ns. There are a few t-shirts in there, but I didn't want to sort of, I didn't want to derail you. So maybe I'll try and put them in the show notes.

It's all in there.

But Gary, thank you so much. It's a shame that this isn't coming out on Halloween, but you know, this has been a great episode.

I'm scared anyway.

Yeah, I'm terrified.

It's spooky enough. Listen, good luck everyone. Don't be ghosted. It's in your hands. As long as they like you.

Thanks everybody. We'll see you next time.

See you again soon.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Company Doctor. We finally joined the rest of the world on YouTube. So if you like this episode and want to watch Gary and I in action, search for TheCompany_Doctor on YouTube and you'll find videos from all of our recordings, plus our ever-popular walk and talks in far-flung parts of the world. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.