Eureka Moment: How to Get People to Do What You Want #58

After all, all art is experience. Hello, Gary.

Hey, George.

Hi. Let's cut to the chase.

Let's cut to— you know what, I've missed you, George. Just before we get started, we've done a lot of guest episodes. The last Eureka moment we did went down really well, and we've got another awesome short but sweet episode coming up. And you know what the title is?

Tell me.

How to get people to do what you want. Think of the magic, the magic behind that. Yeah. How cool is that?

The power.

The power. If it works, how powerful would that be?

Well, this would be great for me and for everyone I imagine listening. If you can get people to do what you want, then you've won, haven't you?

I love the way that you always, you view each episode through your own lens. Bless you for that. You're really good at that. If it's helpful to you, it must be a good podcast, right?

Well, exactly.

Yeah.

As long as I'm getting something out of it, who cares?

Exactly. And that's my test. If it's good for George, it's good for everyone because everyone loves George so much.

Good.

Well, let's crack on with it. So here's the dilemma. Let's just throw in the dilemma. First of all, apart from the fact that we're in this world of— because everyone's working from home and the world seems to be— and I'm not against it, by the way, for people listening, I love working from home. Of course, not really, but everyone— the world has become really disconnected and I don't know if it's just me, maybe people just don't like me, but no one seems to phone me back or follow through or do anything. It's got to the point where I'm like, why? What's wrong with me? Is there something wrong with me, George?

I don't think anything, any one specific thing, to be honest with you. I think it's maybe a collection of things.

It's a lot of things. It's a lot. Confidence coming through right there. So, you know, and by the way, I mean, part of this podcast, we're not giving you the magic secret to get people to phone you back. That's not what this is about. This is about getting people to do what you want without manipulating them, but to give yourself a better chance. There's no magic bullet, but the eureka moment that we're going to share with people at the end of this episode works maybe 80% of the time. That's not bad, right?

That's pretty good odds. I like those odds.

I thought you would. And actually, on this eureka moment, it's a bit of a eureka sandwich, actually.

Okay. We haven't had one of those yet, have we?

We've not had a eureka sandwich. It's kind of stuffed with I don't know which way around the sandwich is. The top of the sandwich has got a piece, and then there's the meat in the middle, and then there's the eureka moment at the other side of the sandwich. Okay, it's going to taste delicious. But, um, it was funny actually, in, in my pursuit of the eureka moment, I've tried all sorts of things. If you have, like trying to get people to do what you want, have you ever tried anything that worked?

Not that I— not sort of consciously. I don't think I've, um, yeah, I don't know. Guilt tripping, I think I do quite a lot.

Guilt tripping is quite good. Guilt-tripping is, is actually part of the answer, but it's a bit more less manipulative than guilt-tripping. But I, I could tell you a quick story. I, I had some problems with my broadband, so I tried— I thought I've got a really good idea. I get quite smart sometimes, but not as smart as I thought. And I called up the company, the woman answered, and I hadn't had any response for a long time. And she said, look, I'm really sorry that it's taken so long, and I, I— what I'm going to do is I'm going to go and have a look at it, and then I'm going to call you back. 'And what, when someone says that, what do you think?' 'They're not going to call you back.' 'They're not, are you?' So I thought, I've got an idea. So I said, 'Look, I really appreciate that and it's nice to hear, but I don't think you're going to call me back. In fact, I know you won't call me back because no one ever calls me back.' Yeah. And then she said, 'No, no, I'm definitely going to call you back.' So I hung up. And then, you know, in the hour that she promised to call me back, guess what happened?

She didn't call you back?

She absolutely did not call me back. And who would blame her, right? Because the idiot on the end of the phone would go, you're not going to call me back? Okay, well, if you're so smart, I won't. And that's what— that was the end of that experiment. So that is not the eureka moment. Okay. Just to let you know. Great. And just to be fair to people that we're trying to get them to do stuff, it's not because they're lazy, don't like us, or they forget. It's just because, you know, people have got a lot on and yeah, it might be more important to you than it is to them. Definitely. And that's like life, isn't it? So then then I kind of went through a phase of being like really cranky and bitter and grumpy. Yeah, it's not helpful. Have you ever tried something when you're grumpy with someone on the phone, like you shout at them?

Well, it's not really in my nature, if I'm honest, but I have got angry obviously once or twice in my life and it doesn't really help. As many as that?

Yeah. I mean, I'm not suggesting that we should let people get away with stuff and we shouldn't up the temperature a little bit and escalate because I love a bit of that. But I would say from my experience, People that whinge and complain don't get the response they want as quickly.

No. And also it just escalates in your own brain as well. I don't know if you ever— I know you're not a massive Whatsapper, but if you know, I'm sure lots of people are members of loads of different WhatsApp groups. And if you put something in one of those WhatsApp groups and no one responds, you just feel really sad. You think, oh, no one cares. And then the more you think about it.

Yeah.

And it's sort of, it's like an example of that, no one getting back. But I do think it's, as you said.

Oh, is that a psychological dig? Because I'm really bad at responding to WhatsApps.

No, I think that's just—

My kids are always telling me sometimes my kids, you know, I think you can put your hand up in WhatsApp like, oi, hello. I just don't look at WhatsApp. So that's a good one actually, because I think maybe some people don't see the message, they're overloaded. They don't kind of respond well to that. They're a bit confused by it all. So I don't know if that was a dig.

It's not a dig, but I do think it does affect people for sure. That sort of thing, not being responded to in some way or another, more so than people realize. But also, as you said, I think we're, you know, this day and age, people aren't doing it unless they absolutely have to or unless they've been Svengali'd into doing something.

So let's get into some of the how-tos then. So for people listening, you're probably thinking, well, that's very interesting, guys, just get to the point. So here's the point. The point is that you're trying to get people to do what you want. Sometimes we lose sight of that. So when we get really angry and grumpy or whatever, although we have every right, by the way, to be that way, we get ourselves in the way. Because if the result is to get what you want, it's not— it's counterintuitive. The— you'll see in a minute, the eureka moment is counterintuitive. It's going to make you twitch when I tell you what it is. And the first key is you've got to be sincere in, in the next steps I'm about to tell you about, because if you're not sincere, it doesn't work. And anyway, I'm not suggesting people aren't sincere, But sometimes people try to use ideas and it comes across a bit cheesy. So you've got to be sincere. And the first part of the sandwich, not the eureka moments, I'm saving that for a big reveal. The first part is to— I talk about this a lot— kill them with kindness. And what I mean by that, and again, some people might be a bit confused by this, why would you kill someone for kindness when they're not responding to you? Yeah, but it is to create a connection that they like you and they want, they want to up you on their priority list if you're not. Yeah. Or they want to go out of their way to help you when they probably don't need to, or they want to go to the bother of giving you what you want. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. Makes perfect sense.

So an example of this would be, I, this happened to me in the, I went to the Avis desk. So this is going to be bad if someone from Avis is listening. And generally in certain countries, the Avis or most car hire is not very user-friendly. And the main reason it isn't is that people always come in and complain, ask for an upgrade, drive them mad. And so my My response, I want to get an upgrade, but I just went in and went, hi, my favorite Avus people, how's it going today? You guys, it looks like you're working really hard today. I feel for you in this heat. And the woman said to me behind the counter, it was slightly less cheesy than I just made it. She said, you know what, no one's ever said that to us before. Normally people shout at us. I said, no, that's not fair, is it? Anyway, I got an upgrade immediately. Nice. So I kill people with kindness and I always do it whenever I go into a shop or anywhere I go in. You've seen me do it. Yeah, you're the same, by the way. I'm always, hi, how you going? It's a great day. So you guys look like you're working hard. I just, I recognize the situation that they're in and the difficulty that they have. Not, but it comes from a place of sincerity.

It's not patronizing.

It's not patronizing. I'm not doing it for, I'm not doing it to manipulate. I generally, yeah, I get it. It's not easy, right? I understand that. And so kill them with kindness is the first thing. Yeah. And then the, are we, we quite not quite that, we're not quite the eureka moment, are we? Any thoughts about that, George, by the way?

I have got, well, I, I totally agree and I I did it just the other day. I went into a pub and I asked the lady behind the bar, I said, you know, hi, how are you? And she went, you're the first person to ask me that. Because obviously people just go in and say pint of lager, glass of wine, please. Pint of lager, two crisps, please. Yeah. So I think, you know, I didn't get anything out of it. I didn't get any sort of freebies or anything, but that's not why you do it. It's just sort of spreading that.

Well, doesn't it make you feel good as well that you're making someone's day slightly better than it was before?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I prefer to live my day that way than to be grumpy, although I am grumpy sometimes.

I've never seen it.

No, you've not seen it. I do get grumpy. Okay. So, and by the way, I do escalate and chase things when I'm not getting results. I'm not wet. I'm not a wallflower. I will say. But here's the— are you ready for the eureka moment?

Yeah, that's why we're all here.

We're all here for this. You know this, but I don't care because it's not for you. I'm doing this for others. Here's the eureka moment. If you want to get people to do what you want, first of all, you have to kill them with kindness. That's the top of the sandwich. But the main part of the sandwich is to use this phrase: listen, I understand if you can't, but I appreciate if you can. I understand if you can't, but I really appreciate if you can. And when I use this, I would say 80% of the time it works. It doesn't— no guarantee. And the reason it works— and by the way, some people listening to that and thinking, can I skip the understand if you can't part? 'But no, you can't.' Why do you think we use the 'understand if you can't' part?

That's the sort of the empathy, isn't it? That's like we're on the same level.

Exactly. It's exactly that. So now I'm connecting to this. I get it. I know it's bloody hard for you, but so I understand if you can't do it. So I'm pleading to your— I understand your empathy. I'm empathizing with you. Yeah, I really would appreciate if you can.

Yeah, it's good, isn't it?

It is powerful. It sounds like really basic, and it's not guarantee on anything, by the way, but I think you have to do them together. You have to do the killing them with kindness because you then earn the right that they want to help you. Yeah. Because if you kill them with grumpiness, they probably won't, even if you appreciate again, they won't appreciate you.

No, and you won't feel good about yourself. And yeah, no one's a winner with grumpiness. But yes, I understand if you can't, but I appreciate if you can. I like that. I think you probably used it on me before. I'm pretty sure your son has.

He has. He used it on me, which is quite scary. But hey, this is what's happening in the world that we're in. Well, eureka! Is it eureka?

Eureka, yeah. We need to get a button that we can press that shouts eureka.

How to get people to do what you want: kill them with kindness and tell them, whatever the subject is, "I'll understand if you can't, I'd appreciate if you can." Boom. And boom, there you have it. A eureka moment in the bag.

Good stuff. Thank you, Gary. See you for the next one.

See you again soon. Thanks, everyone.