How to Boost Your Career & Prove Your Professional Value with Paysafe Group’s Chief HR Officer, Nick Walker #7

After all, all art is experience. Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor. Today we're broadening our discussion on how to boost your career and improve your professional value with a series of invaluable insider tips. Our insider this episode is Nick Walker, Chief Human Resources Officer of Paysafe Group, where he's responsible for the group-wide HR strategy, including the recruitment, development, and retention of talent, integration of staff, of driving engagement. He's got an experience list as long as your arm, and if anyone can help us decode the mysterious process of getting promoted, it's Nick. Gary, over to you.

It would be presumptuous if I were to give you, say, the analogy of sailing. So welcome, Nick. We're delighted to have you on this episode.

One of the—

and I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself in a second, but one of the main reasons I was excited to have you on here is that this episode is about getting the inside track to getting promoted from within. And our last episode was about how to get promoted without being a jerk. But you're so good at employee engagement, enhancing people's well-being and their development, so I thought it'd be really good to get your inside track. But welcome, Nick. And, you know, for people listening, just a quick elevator pitch on, you know, you and Paysafe would be great.

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Gary, for the introduction and the invitation as well, and the kind words. Nick Walker, Chief HR Officer at Paysafe Group. Paysafe has just recently gone through an IPO on the New York Stock Exchange. We are a payments company, online and offline, global, about $1.6 billion revenue and around 3,500 people, as far west as California and as far east as India today. And my background has always been HR for my sins, even studied it at second degree level and carved out a career within technology initially, very international, very much M&A-focused and transformational change management-focused. And then was very fortunate to be headhunted into a fintech company 8 years ago called Skrill. Back then it was really a $60 million EBITDA company with 400 employees. And yeah, over the last 8 years I've enjoyed helping grow that company through organic means and acquisitional growth as well. And to the point where, you know, I am here today. I never expected to be at Skrill for 8 years and now Paysafe, of course. Here you are. And I think it's testament to the fact that Paysafe has just grown so fast in a very dynamic industry of payments that's kept my interest and kept me motivated, in all honesty.

And that's one of the reasons I wanted you on, Nick, because you've had all this experience of acquisitions. I think you've done, you know, 8 to 10 acquisitions over the last few years. But the main reason is that you've always put a lot of focus on employee engagement, employee development. So you are, the company, if you like, is selling people on acquiring and staying in your business. But the question I had for you, because I think it's a bit of a two-way street really, what do you expect from them in return? Because I know what you do and you're always great at it, but what do you expect from, I'm an employee, what do you expect from me in return?

Well, Listen, we live in a very competitive environment, not just the countries that we operate in or the cities that we operate in, but also the industry that we operate in. It's very fast-moving, very dynamic, and very competitive. And therefore, myself, as well as colleagues in other companies in the industry, have to really dig deep to create a fulfillment and an employee engagement experience that is first class. I mean, the new generations want and desire different things than perhaps my generation did, and you've got to keep thinking, keep evolving your proposition as an HR function to make sure that it matches with the needs of the employees. And so, yeah, the investments we make with employees, those that have been with us for many, many years and those that have joined us through recruitment but also through acquisition, it is a relationship, it is a two-way relationship. We want them to engage with the company, and to strive for growth and success and enjoyment and fulfillment. But at the same time, obviously we're looking for commitment and dedication, excellence, knowledge, and competitiveness. So it is a two-way relationship.

Yeah, I mean, that's the bit I want to dig into a little bit, because if I just put my employee hat on, so I work for Paysafe or any other company, and obviously some people are more ambitious than others, but we kind of want to know what's the secret sauce to getting on, I suppose. And I read a recent article that you, you wrote actually around fintech companies evolving, and you said smart, talented, innovative professionals just aren't interested in potentially dedicating years and years to one company anymore. So if I'm ambitious and potentially good at my job, what can I do to get noticed and have a chance to develop in your world?

Well, haven't things changed over the last 18 months? I mean, the answer I'd have given 18 months ago would be probably different to the answer I'd probably you give today, such is the way the world has evolved in that short space of time. I think in terms of what we want employees to do, obviously, if you want to grow in an organization, I think there is still opportunities for people to grow in organizations, and there's a desire and an interest. Obviously, a level of engagement is required from that employee. In terms of engaging with the company's processes, policies, procedures, particularly as it relates to performance management and continuous feedback, is absolutely crucial, I think, for employees to get some kind of recognition and insight in terms of how they're performing and giving their managers some visibility of what their expectations are. And that's really key there. I think a lot of employees miss a trick in terms of making sure that they are proactive in informing their manager. And I think a lot of people see this as a bit of a challenge, you know, explain to your manager that you're interested in developing your career, don't be afraid, it's a manager's role to manage and to manage efficiently and effectively and to create a motivational environment. So, and that includes, you know, people's growth and development. So I think companies have to work hard to create scope and space and opportunity for employees more so than ever before, because as I said, it's a competitive environment and new generations have a tendency to want things now, to want things absolutely at the point that they want them rather than waiting. So, and often you find a lot of career jumpers or company jumpers evolving their careers over the course of a few years in a few companies. So yeah, my job—

Company jumpers? What's a company jumper, Nick?

People that evolve their career, they, in order to jump up they jump out. Okay, jumping out of the company into another company to grow their career. And that's the challenge that we have, is, is a pace at which employees expect change and expect growth, both skill set as well as monetary growth, is one of the biggest challenges we face in the HR industry today, in all honesty.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting you talked about the now— people want things now, and I guess people are impatient, and maybe they expect to get promoted because they've been there for a period of time, but Someone asked me the other day, and I thought I'd ask you this question. Yeah, my boss isn't really helping. I know I'm responsible to manage my own career, but my boss doesn't care or isn't interested. What should I do?

Well, that's really sad in that case, because, you know, we pay managers to manage and to manage effectively. And I think that managers— yeah, it's a tough job being a manager because you're managing a collection of people, all different behaviors, all different styles. But there's never been such a better time to be a manager in terms of the, the tools that managers have at their disposal to help them manage effectively, efficiently, to have visibility of what employees are thinking at any point in time. All of those tools are at their disposal like never before. There's no excuse for the manager. So the advice I would give is to speak to the manager's manager. It may seem like a little bit extreme, but certainly speak to the manager's manager. Secondly, I would certainly advocate encouraging that employee to be, to be part of a mentoring program. If there's not one within the organization, I would certainly maybe ask that employee to promote the idea himself or herself and go to the HR team. So I really like a mentor in order to navigate my way through this company, understand what opportunities are for me in that company. Not necessarily to, you know, to throw the manager under a bus necessarily, because that's not going to help anybody.

No, not good.

But there are ways of doing it through mentoring through performance management process. Typically, you know, your views in the performance management process in terms of, you know, how your year has gone, what you're looking for in the future, your career development aspirations, doesn't go unnoticed. It's not just a manager that sees that. That will be looked at by HR, maybe looked at the manager, but by the manager's manager. So take that process seriously. I think a lot of companies, people see it as just a paper-pushing exercise. Yeah.— which is wrong because that's certainly not how we treat it at Paysafe. We see that as a critical process or path to giving feedback and improving an employee's experience and giving them opportunity. And if all else fails, manager's manager, in a very calm and measured and as subtle as possible way, I would think, to try and get some traction.

Okay, and then the second question I get the most, and you've probably heard this before, People always ask this, should I ask for a pay rise? If I feel I've worked hard, I deserve to get to the next level, maybe you may not feel the same way, but should I ever, is there ever a situation where I should ask for a pay rise?

Well, we've all been there, haven't we? Yeah, do you, don't you? My mother always told me, and if you don't ask, you don't get. And I think the same is true now. You know, there's no shame in, if you firmly believe and you can almost objectively show that you have delivered value, that you're taking on more, and that you're worth more in the marketplace through various information available to you, then yeah, absolutely. No harm in asking your manager. I don't think people should be afraid of wanting to earn more money, right? We all aspire to having a great job, having great fun at work, building a career, but also, you know, we're there to make money. So let's not shy away from that. Let's be open and transparent about it. So I have a lot of respect for people that can objectively and pragmatically explain to me that they're looking for a salary increase. Absolutely, bring it on. Rather be open and honest than them going elsewhere to find that salary increase.

And from a kind of a levelling point of view, what's the best way if I'm an employee and I want to ask for more money, how do I kind of sell you on the idea? What's the business case, if you like, I need to put forward to make it compelling?

Yeah, so I think you've got to talk about what you've achieved in, in the last year or last few months, the additional projects you may have taken on board or the, the contribution that you've made. Obviously, if there is a, a value to that contribution, then, then great. You know, if it's revenue generating or it's, it's, it's efficiency saving, then that's going to be very helpful in terms of helping the manager or HR determine the, uh, the merit for such an increase. I think also if you've taken on or grown up or taken on additional people or manage— managing others or team leading others, that would be incredibly helpful too. But also if you have some visibility of what the market is doing, you know, some industries the market is moving very fast, it's very competitive, and to have your hands-on benchmark information. Certainly never, never Never aspire to trying to use internal information, you know, Jack's got this or Jill's got that, you know, in this department or that department, and, you know, Jack's just got an increase and that's not fair. You know, I certainly wouldn't use that as a basis for a discussion or a request, but certainly use external benchmarking information or industry information to also back up your request as well, I would.

Good advice, good advice. So let me switch tracks just a little bit. So here's an interesting question for you, Nick. If I was your family, and I'm not, let's be honest, but if I was your family or a close friend, what advice would you give me plotting a path to getting promoted? Not just talking about pay increases, but, you know, improving my profile in the company and getting to a stage over time where, you know, I get noticed and get promoted. What would you advise me if I was someone close to you?

Well, I think the first thing to do is probably to determine what you're looking for precisely. You know, are you— what is driving that question? Is it because you're unhappy? Is it because you have aspirations to grow yourself, to take on more skills, to develop yourself, to go to a new country, to go to a new department? What is the background for that discussion? I think that's absolutely critical that you really Script out what it is you're trying to achieve and why, and that will help you then devise the appropriate strategy. And going back to this point, even though new generations wanting everything now, and there's nothing wrong with wanting everything now, that's a nice aspiration to have, it needs to be balanced and it needs to be pragmatic. But sometimes, you know, it's not a promotion that someone wants, maybe it's taking on an additional project, maybe it's moving laterally into another department to get a little bit more visibility of what other— maybe it's moving to another country. Gary Gamp, you know, it may not be jumping up that is always what's necessary. Could be taking on a new training skill or getting involved in a broader cross-organizational project. And those are often quick wins to satisfy employees because it's not always a promotion necessarily or jump up that employers are necessarily looking for. But if it is, if you've made your assessment and analysis, and it is you're looking to grow your career and to develop yourself, and promotion is the, is the key, then I think, as you mentioned, you know, building your brand is absolutely critical. And you've got to be careful, you know, there's pitfalls and there's positive strategies on how to do that. But certainly start with making sure your manager is aware of your aspirations. Yeah, you might have a good manager or a bad manager, but certainly whether it's good or bad, make sure that you have told them and informed them what your aspirations are, what you're looking to achieve in the organization. Get that on paper. HR will obviously get visibility of it as well at some point in time. The second thing, if there is a mentoring program, as I mentioned earlier, I would certainly advocate that employee participate into that because a mentoring program invariably gives you access to individuals that are higher up in the organization that typically would come from a different department, would have a broader scope perhaps than your manager even would in terms of what's available in the organization. So you can build your brand with a mentor, I think is really important. Authenticity, you know, I think in a promotion type of environment, you know, people tend to not be their true selves because they're acting, they're trying to be outside of their true selves. So I think being authentic is really critically important. Sometimes, you know, people can come across as lacking authenticity, and that doesn't help, I would say. And then in terms of, you know, your own performance, clearly, you know, your performance has to be strong. You need to make sure you monitor and measure your performance on a regular basis. You know, typically organizations have annual appraisal cycles. I would certainly advocate, if you're in a promotional type of mindset, having a more regular touchpoint with your manager So, you know, get some continuous performance meetings in there, get some feedback on a regular basis, not just from your manager but from your peers as well. Yeah, take on tough jobs. You know, sometimes there's projects that come up, sometimes there's initiatives that come up, and, you know, managers looking for a set of hands to be raised.

Yeah, I like that one. Put your hand up.

Put your hand up. You know, you don't know what you don't know. Put your hand up. You know, what's the worst that can happen? Get involved in a project. And also projects that have cross-departmental visibility are really helpful to get you kind of out. Sometimes you can get stuck in a department, right? And it could be a small department, could be a big department, but you can get almost typecast as a person in that department. And therefore, you know, your career development path is very narrow on that basis. So broaden your career path, get out there, understand what other departments are doing, get involved in cross-organizational cross-departmental projects, get your name out there, build your brand, but also look at opportunities to move across the organization as well as up. Because sometimes moving across can be more beneficial to your career than moving up. You know, if you're in marketing today, you know, why not spend 6 months in sales? Or, you know, if there's an opportunity to move into operations to get a real view of what the customer's perspective is or merchant's perspective is, get that.

Yeah, get out of your comfort zone a bit.

Earlier on in your career, that could be absolutely critical. And it does, I mean, to that point, Gary, it does depend where you are in your career, right? I mean, the advice I would give to a 23-year-old graduate is going to be much different to the advice I'm going to give to a 35-year-old professional who's spent 10 years carving out a career in marketing or HR.

That makes sense. That's really helpful, Nick, actually. And I've got 2 more questions and then we're at the end. The first one is looking the other way. So if, you know, you're looking out there for people that have the golden nuggets that are out there, they've got some potential, and you, you recognize that because they've done all the things that you've said. What are you looking for in the other direction, where you, you're looking for the kind of the golden nuggets in the organization that you feel that could progress, maybe get on the fast track? What sort of things are you looking out for?

Well, that's a good point. So you raise a very good point there, Gary. So most organizations of scale would have, and this is particularly for the, the younger generations listening, I would say most organizations do have a fast-tracker program, a kind of postgraduate kind of scheme. We have one, a high potential program, we call it Front Runner Program. So certainly if you're younger, you know, and you're in a bit larger organization, look out for those programs. You know, if you're not selected, then self-select, you know, make it known that you're interested in joining that program, that you're keen to develop your career and you could see how— be aspirational. You could see how that program can help you. But yeah, we're looking for continuous high performance. That's a golden nugget. We're looking for someone who's trusted by their management, by their colleagues, is respected by their peers. You know, there's nothing, nothing more than positive feedback from your peers, more so than positive feedback from your manager often. Because sometimes when you're trying to build a career, you can, you can you can upset people on the way, right?

So those that can—

whoa— navigate growth in an organization, but also by maintaining and retaining good relationships with their peer group, is really important. And I was going to mention it later on, but that's one of the challenges also of being promoted within, is one of my biggest challenges was being promoted from a peer group and then having to manage my peer group. That is one of the biggest challenges anyone will face in their career, is being selected amongst a group of people to manage that group of people. Your relationship with them changes and evolves very quickly, you know, from having a pint with them and joking about your boss and, and talking about the company and what's good and what's bad, and it goes to being accountable, responsible, being a manager of those, of those individuals. So finding that balance between Being friends with them and going out for a beer with them or going out with them socially is still possible, but finding that balance of also managing them as well is really tricky tightrope to walk. And that's certainly one of the challenges I faced in my career when I was younger, is managing a peer group.

Yeah, I can imagine. Careful what you wish for, I guess.

So that's a golden nugget. Yeah, that trust and that building rapport is a golden nugget. And I think people that have a broader perspective, that can talk the company language, understand where we're going, can ask those bloody good questions that people sometimes are afraid to ask. The town halls might raise their hand and ask pertinent questions. Building that brand can be obvious and subtle at the same time.

So maybe they should network more, is that what you're saying? People should get on the radar a bit more?

Yeah, network internally, mentoring program, networking, raising your hand, asking for more projects, good solid performance, building trust and rapport with your colleagues, Joining network groups and being a spokesperson for networks, helping peers as well, you know, standing up and helping peers develop their own careers in spite of your own often doesn't go unnoticed. So, okay, yeah, there's lots of nuggets out there.

This is gold stuff, Mr. Walker. I've got one more question. We've got time for one more question, but obviously killer question at the end. What's the one thing in your career that has most helped either you raise your profile or you get to the next level?

That's a very good question. There's so many distinctive parts really. I mean, sometimes you get lucky as well, right, Gary? Let's, let's be honest, sometimes you get lucky with the company that you're working for, the growth that they're, that they're going. Often the fast-moving companies could possibly give more opportunity than maybe slower growing companies because When you're growing at pace, people get invited to take on more very quickly, sometimes without even thinking about it, right? So, and also you can get lucky with a good manager. I was very lucky to have very good leadership when I was younger in my career. But for me, it's take a risk. You know, I took a risk. I took on a job that I was probably 50 to 60% competent of doing. I was outside of my comfort zone significantly. My manager was very supportive and understood the risk that we were collectively taking. And for one year I was paddling hard, but for sure that set me in good stead. There's no doubt in my mind that that was a career-defining moment for me. And that involved taking a new role in a new country with new responsibilities. That was a defining moment for me, in all honesty. So yeah.

Taking risk, putting yourself out there a little bit.

Yeah, outside of your comfort zone, for sure. Yeah, but you know, listen, it's— there's so many factors that can impact how you evolve your career in any organisation. As I said before, you know, HR has never had it tougher than today, where, you know, we've got now remote working on top of, you know, new generations wanting, you know, fast career development and change and desires to grow. And we've got to make sure that, you know, we don't have that step out to step up scenario, that we are able to allow people to grow and have a great experience and a great career within the company itself. It's a daily struggle.

I think that's really, really helpful, Nick. And listen, we've come to the end of our time, but I really appreciate you spending the time with us. I was really pleased to have you on because I know how passionate you are about employee engagement and well-being and development, and I think it's really insightful for people to understand that, you know, mature businesses and organizations like yourselves really focus on it, and it is a two-way street. It's not all about me, what I want. It's about, you know, companies are trying to attract and retain people. So thanks so much for spending your time. I'm going to hand you over to George because he's got some questions about your musical tastes.

It's just the one, it's just the one question really, but it always feels a little bit wrong after sort of 20 minutes of genuinely really useful information to chime in at the end and ask what your favorite song is. But we are asking all our guests on this show, we're putting together a playlist on Spotify just called the Company Doctor playlist. And we're asking all our guests if they've got a piece of music or a song that they'd like to add into that playlist. And it could be anything really, something that's motivated you, or calmed you down or relaxed you or anything really that you associate with your professional life. Nick, after all of that fantastic info and really useful advice and a great conversation with Gary, do you have a tune or two that you'd like to throw into the mix?

I'm allowed two, am I?

As many as you like.

Hey, what's happening here?

Apparently. I would say that a song that my wife and I really do enjoy and really gets us motivated would be Another Love by Tom Odell.

Great.

And there's lots of remixes around that as well, which are really upbeat, that gets you, certainly gets you in the mood and gets your head out of the jungle. And probably I'd say an Oasis song, Stand By Me by Oasis, also that takes me back to my, uh, the days of my early career.

Great, good choices, very different choices too, so thank you very much. They're a pleasure, consider them added to the list. And thanks again for joining us today.

Thanks, George.

That's all we have time for today. A very special thanks again to our guest, Nick Walker. And if you enjoyed this episode, head to thecompanydoctor.com to subscribe for future episode updates, show notes, and our episode archive. And be sure to follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn for extra content. See you next time, and thanks for listening.