My Journey to CEO with Paula Cogan, CEO of euNetworks #51

After all, all art is experience. Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor. Today we're joined by Paula Kogan, CEO of high-bandwidth infrastructure services provider EU Networks. We follow the captivating career journey that led to Paula's CEO appointment earlier this year and hear some fascinating insight and ways to overcome challenges for anyone with similar C-suite ambitions. This is My Journey to CEO with Paula Kogan. Gary, Paula, over to you.

Hi Paula, thanks so much for joining The Company Doctor. This is the episode on my journey to CEO, so it's great to have you. Welcome.

Thank you, Gary. Lovely to talk to you this morning, and I really appreciate you inviting me to participate.

Oh, it's a pleasure. You know, it's going to be a great episode for anyone listening. You're in for a treat. Paula, I think probably a great place to start is for you to introduce yourself and a little bit about EU Networks.

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Paula Cogan. I'm the Chief Executive of EU Networks since the 1st of January of this year. I'm based in London, currently sitting in our headquarters in Canary Wharf. And EU Networks are an infrastructure company, a provider of high-bandwidth connectivity, predominantly data center to data center for major consumers of high bandwidth across Western Europe.

Brilliant. And, you know, today, and we'll find out more as we go through, today's episode is about your journey to CEO. And, you know, our listeners are kind of business-to-business people in general. And so, you know, a lot of people are looking to sort of follow a similar path. And so my first question, and I'm hoping I'm asking it in the right way, but Now, looking back at your career, when did you realize— I'm making a presumption that you did realize— that you wanted to be a CEO, and what sparked the ambition?

It's an interesting question, Gary, actually, because in full transparency, you know, I'd always wanted to be the best that I could be in my career and be a senior leader, you know, and manage large global teams. And, you know, I achieved that over the past 10, 15 years. And indeed, in my last position, I actually felt it was going to be my last position. That was going to be my last job. I was going to do it for a number of years, and then I would retire and have some downtime and relax. And then out of the blue— and my last position, as you're probably aware, I was the Chief Commercial Officer for a major telecoms company based out of London. Very, very fulfilled and happy in that job. And then just out of the blue, I got a call from a gentleman whom I've known for 30 years. I've had a long-term relationship. He's been a long-term mentor of mine. And he said, you don't know this, but, you know, I'm planning to retire, and I've had you down as my successor for a number of years. And, you know, are you interested in a conversation? And it was right in the middle of lockdown. Right out of the blue at a period in which I was very, very happy and fulfilled in the role that I was doing. And I paused and said, gosh, I need a little bit of time to think about this because I wasn't planning on a move, but leave it with me and I'll let you know if I'm interested in an exploratory discussion. And I pondered probably for about a week, and I thought, you know what, I've worked hard over more than 30 years to be one of very few women leaders in the telecoms industry. And, you know, I've had the benefit of strong mentors, coaches, people that have really, really, you know, trusted in me and helped me to develop my career. And really, you know, to have the opportunity to be one of a handful of chief executives in the telecom sector that is female, was an opportunity that I couldn't turn down, so I wanted to give something back and actually be a role model for other women in the industry. So I thought, yes, this will be my final move, and it's just a fantastic and unique opportunity that, quite frankly, I didn't expect.

It's amazing, Paul. I mean, it's a very inspirational story. I must admit, I wasn't sure if you— when I was younger, I wanted to be an astronaut. I was wondering if you woke up and when you were younger and you said, I want to be a CEO. So it's interesting.

But when I was younger, I wanted to be a professional gymnast.

Did you? It's funny though, Paula, you were so cool when you received the call, as you were explaining it, and you went away and considered it. Whereas if it was me, I'd be going, yes, I'll tell you in about an hour's time, I'll come back to you. I go, yes, of course. But you were cool hand Luke. I like that. So many people believe, you know, if you want to be a successful CEO, whether you decide you want to do it or you eventually do it, that you need to have a certain skill set. In your opinion, what are those skills for a CEO? And if you haven't got them, how do you go about acquiring them?

I think firstly, you need to be able to build and develop a really, really good team. You know, have a group of people around you that have all of the requisite skills and resilience actually to, to, to run a business. And quite frankly, As a CEO, you don't have to have all of those skills. So, you know, I'm not an engineer, I don't know how to build, design, and architect networks. I don't have a finance background, but I've got a fantastic CFO. So, I think it's important to have the ability to build an excellent team, to understand the skills that you need, and to have the confidence to lean into your team and trust them to help you make really complex and strategic decisions. And then you do need a degree of personal resilience. Being a chief executive can be a lonely place because at the end of the day, although I've got a fantastic team that help me through decision makings and help me to work through solving problems and harvesting opportunity, at the end of the day, if we've got something really important, the buck stops with me and the final decision. Sits with me. So, you know, you need to have a degree of resilience to do that. And you need to be able to trust data the majority of the time. The other element is really to be humble. You know, one of the things I guess that is easy to kind of drift into is, you know, being the king of your empire. But businesses only do well if employees are, you know, inspired by the purpose and vision of the company, and if there is a degree of trust in the leadership. And, you know, that is built as a consequence of honesty, directness, being an authentic leader, being prepared to show a degree of vulnerability, and listening, listening as well. I don't always have the answers. My leadership team don't always have the answers. So I'm a big fan of going further down the organization to really understand what's going on at grassroots level and really to take feedback in terms of what we need to do to improve our culture, to improve our business performance, etc.

Gary. And, you know, I've known you for a few years and I think, you know, humble is a good word. I think you are a very natural leader. And as you were speaking, I was thinking about, if you think about looking back on your career, you know, if for people that want to kind of have a path to be CEO, Are there any particular roles that people should choose in their career? Like, for example, you come from a sales background. What kind of roles help you in, in, you know, being a better CEO or being better positioned to be one?

I don't think there's a simple answer to that, Gary. You know, I've interacted with, you know, CEOs that have come from a sales background, that have come from a finance background, that have come from even legal backgrounds. I think my advice would be to get as much cross-functional experience, you know, for a person who aspires to be a CEO, ensure that you get as much cross-functional experience as possible would really be my advice. I mean, I came to this career through, as you're aware, through a sales background, but I think, you know, equally a CFO makes a fantastic CEO as well because it is important to have, you know, really strong financial and commercial acumen.

Okay. And you talked about, you know, having an oversight because obviously you're a senior level now and you're using your team more and trying not to jump in. But is it hard, you know, depending wherever you— if you're a CFO or a salesperson, not to jump back into, you know, your, your kind of core power, superpower, so to speak?

It's really hard. Of course it's hard. You know, one of the things that I've absolutely enjoyed throughout my career is customer interaction and customer relationships. I am a people person. I love supporting our customers. I've got a lot of connections in the industry, so I do have to rein myself back. You know, I've helped the team a lot in reaching out to customers using my own network, but sometimes, you know, I have to force myself in meetings to kind of step back and let my account team and my sales directors I have the floor. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, it's hard, right? And Paula, over the years, you know, you've been very successful in pretty much all the things you've done. What were some of the biggest roadblocks you faced or the challenges along the way, and what did you have to do to overcome them? I know there's probably been lots, but can you think of some things that maybe stood out?

If I think about me personally in terms of some of the roadblocks, probably always wanting to succeed and an acknowledgement that sometimes you learn more from failure. So, I remember at one point in my career, my then boss, who was an American gentleman, I worked for a US-based telco, had put me on a project and I didn't actually believe that it was going to succeed. And, you know, there was a lot of dissent about what we were trying to achieve with this particular project. It was very complex and people were kind of saying, this is nuts, it's sucking up a load of resource. And I was like, Why am I doing this? And it wasn't very successful. It didn't succeed. And when I went to my boss kind of at the end of, I think it was probably 6 or 9 months project, and I kind of said to him, you know, I feel really disheartened. This project really didn't go well. And he sat me down and he said, you know, but what have you learned from it? And we talked very deeply and, you know, I'd learned a lot. And then at the end of the conversation, he said to me, what you didn't realize is, I wanted you to fail and I wanted you to learn from this process. I've seen this as a really key part of your development. So I guess it's, you know, for me, it's not being afraid of failure and ensuring things don't always go right, but it's actually what you learn from them that are the important things.

Yeah, I think that's really powerful because I think a lot of people feel that if you fail, then yeah, this kind of game over kind of thing, and you can't recover from it. So it's interesting to hear what you're saying. Is there an example, and maybe it's a similar example, where that challenge or setback led to growth or advancement for you as a person in your career?

Yeah, definitely. Look, you know, when things don't go well, you, you have a period of self-reflection as well as, you know, team and, and project reflection. And yeah, absolutely, you know, you do grow as a person as a consequence of that. And look, again, you know, I've had a successful career. Most roles that I've applied for in terms of career advancement, I've been successful at. But again, you know, in terms of my own personal development, I think the most powerful moment was when I did apply for a senior role at a company that I was already working for. And I had mixed feelings about it but there was a strong expectation that I applied for this role, and a strong expectation around the business that I was likely to be successful. At the time, I had really mixed feelings. I wasn't really sure if I wanted it, and I went into this process feeling really half-hearted about it, actually. And I wasn't successful, and a lot of people were surprised, I think, including myself, even though I knew I'd gone into it half-hearted. So again, that really prompted a period of self-reflection, you know, why did I really want this role? I was kind of being schizophrenic. I didn't want it, but I did want it, and I was surprised that I didn't want it. So I took the feedback in terms of why I wasn't successful, and I actually, you know, worked through a lot of things. I worked through some things with a coach, and actually the role very quickly came up again, and I wanted it then. I really wanted this role because I'd worked through What was it about me that was holding me back from applying? What was it about the role that wasn't appealing? And as a consequence of taking that feedback, that period of self-reflection, working through the feedback and development with a coach, you know, I was successful the second time around.

Yeah, it's interesting to hear you say, and you said earlier about, you know, at senior level it can be a bit lonely. How do you motivate yourself or pull your bootstraps? How do you get yourself in that place?

I'm naturally resilient, Gary. I think you build resilience with experience through responses to, you know, personal life events and through maturity as well. I'm a mature leader, both in terms of tenure and age. So, you know, you do build that resilience through experience, through adversity and managing challenge. But, you know, I've got a really I've got a good network of trusted people in business that I can bounce ideas off and say, gosh, you know, I'm really struggling with this decision. You know, what would you do? I think it's important that we all have, you know, close advocates and mentors. You know, I still have mentors right now, but also I've got a hugely supportive group of friends and more importantly, family. My husband has been— my husband is my superpower. He's been a huge advocate for me throughout my career. And he's made it possible for me to have such a successful career by, quite frankly, such sharing the family load, enabling me to travel extensively when my children were small. He shouldered a large degree of that responsibility, and that has really helped me with that work-life balance when it was required, when my children were younger. But again, I think it's important to recognize that we all sometimes need to press the pause button and take some time out, go for a walk around the fields or, you know, go for a swim, go to the gym and take time out to travel. So, I would say as well as being resilient, I'm a pretty self-aware individual and I know when it's, you know, time just to put the pen down, stop the computer and take a bit of time out.

That's good. And, you know, that family supportive thing, we hear that a lot. You know, I've spoken to lots of leaders and Having a supportive family makes a massive— makes life easier, doesn't it? And helps so much.

Absolutely, it does.

Just to switch gears a little bit, can you have a think about— and don't mention any names— but who might have been your best boss or someone who was a mentor to you? And, you know, how did you approach, you know, from their kind of steer, I guess, how did you— what sort of things do you take on board that maybe shapes your leadership style?

Yeah, look, I had the privilege to work for some amazing, amazing individuals, and I wouldn't really want to name just one, but, you know, but there was one, and that resonates. And actually, I referred to earlier this project that didn't go particularly well, and, you know, the gentleman said, well, you didn't realize this, I wanted you to fail. This was an individual based in the US, an African-American gentleman who really, really, really stretched me. He had me doing things that I really didn't think were possible. He was a really, really tough individual. He was from an operations background. He gave me sometimes savage feedback, you know, really savage feedback. You're too nice. You're far too nice. You need to be tougher. Yeah, and he had a pretty profound and significant impact. On me personally and on my career, he would probably still say I'm a bit too nice.

I think you're nice and there's nothing wrong with that. No. But so has that shaped your leadership style at all?

Yeah, he gave me the confidence to challenge, actually. You know, I've talked about building resilience and he definitely helped me to do that. He gave me the confidence when I was in a room full of senior male leaders in the US and I was the only woman, he gave me the confidence to find my voice and to challenge. You know, he said to me, you know exactly what you're talking about and when you speak, people listen. And he really helped me to build that confidence actually to lean in and speak up.

And did you feel like, you know, you were calling him your best boss, did you feel like that at the time or is it more reflection?

No, he was tough, he was terrifying. He did not feel like my best boss, but, you know, as I reflect on it, he was probably the guy that I learned probably the most from. And I've had another best boss as well that I do have to mention, and he was based in the UK, known him for many, many years, supported me very much through my early career, through some very tough personal times at the start of my career as well. And what he did is, you know, he supported me through what was quite an emotional time. And, you know, I needed to take some time out from work and he brought me back in and said, do anything you want. You know, everything is going to be okay. You know, you will recover from this. It was a bereavement, actually, and really believed in me at a time when, you know, I was, I was actually broken and actually put me into a number of senior positions and really helped me to build myself back up. So, that was kind of a very different example, but one that is, you know, personally very important to me, and it's an ongoing, you know, very close relationship.

It's funny, isn't it? Because, you know, when you speak to people and you reflect back, we generally don't have that many good bosses, unfortunately. And most of our stories are about things that we didn't like, so we adapt our way of working based on what we don't want to be done to us. So, it's interesting to hear that, Paula. And, you know, look, change in business life is all around. It's actually accelerating, you know, in the world that we're in. Lots of people are scared of, or maybe the feeling of being out of control. So what's your thoughts? Change, good or bad?

Good. Change is the only constant. It's something that I've constantly encountered and enjoyed. You know, I find it, I find change exciting. With change always comes opportunity. And you've got to recognize and grasp that opportunity.

And yeah, some ideas maybe from your past about how you can— so for people listening, how can you capitalize in this fast-changing environment so you use it to your advantage? Because a lot of people kind of hide and it slows them down.

Yeah, look, you know, we— the biggest change that we've all encountered this decade obviously was COVID. It's, um, Who would have imagined that we'd all be working remotely from home for 2 years, not being able to travel, being scared to go close to people on the street? And, you know, in our industry, we were the beneficiaries of that change because we recognized the power of the internet and the power of connectivity. It really became critical infrastructure. So, you know, in my last role, we very much which marketed and harnessed that insatiable appetite for telecom services and bandwidth during that period, really understanding the criticality and the speed at which businesses had to adapt to this forced remote environment.

Yeah, I mean, maybe I'll ask the question a slightly different way. So as a CEO, when you're looking at people in any organization, I'm not going to pick on yours because it might be unfair, what are you looking for and how people react in times of change? You gave COVID, but in any time of change, what ticks your boxes when you look at people?

So, you know, when looking at people, you know, the qualities that I look for are adaptability, flexibility, people that can see the art of the possible and are not wedded to the old ways of working. And, you know, the people that are imaginative, creative ideators, you know, if there's change coming, whether it's a technological change, a regulatory change, a political change, an organizational change, I want people around the table that will really, you know, take off the blinkers, open their eyes and their minds to the art of the possible.

Okay, well, it's good to know. So anyone listening, now you know what Paula's looking for. And just your thoughts on, as a CEO again, is growth the be-all and end-all, or what's the real focus for a CEO these days? What's important?

So growth, growth is important. We are owned by private equity. You know, it's important that we create value for our shareholders, but also growth of our organization and culture is important because we'll only create the financial growth and meet our financial metrics if we have, you know, engaged, happy people in our workforce. So for me, growing our culture, investing in our people, bringing in early careers people, apprenticeships, graduates, developing them to be leaders of the future, they're all things that are really, really important to me as a CEO. And then the next thing is thinking about our planet and ESG and sustainability. That is something that is also very important to me as a CEO in an industry that digs up roads and streets using predominantly diesel-powered tools that has a significant impact on the environment. So thinking about more sustainable ways to build networks is something that I personally and that EU Networks as an organization is very, very focused upon, Gary.

Yeah, and we do see that more and more. I think it's gone from being a kind of a tick box thing on sustainability. People genuinely like yourselves believe it's important and adapting the way people work. And, you know, I guess part of your role is a change agent. How hard is that as a CEO to kind of bring people on a journey when maybe they've not been in that place before?

Yeah, it's interesting because I became CEO on the 1st of January and I took over from a very much loved and admired CEO that had been in place here at EU Networks for 16 or 17 years. So, you know, me coming in brings a lot of change because I'm not the same person. I don't use the same words. The same language. I do things slightly differently. I'm creating a slightly different culture. So, you know, I think that is hard for people. You know, he was very, very much loved, my predecessor, and I think it's, you know, it's taken some time for people to get used to my way of running a business, my way of engaging the organization and company, and, you know, my way of kind of building and evolving our culture. So it is hard. However, what I would say is the way that we managed this, I think, was pretty unique because, as I said, I took the position on the 1st of January, but I actually came into the business 18 months ago as president as part of a really well-thought-through transition plan. So myself and my predecessor worked together side by side for a 12-month period with him sort of gradually, you know, leaning back and kind of handing over the harness to me. So it did give me quite a unique 12-month opportunity to align myself with the organization and learn how the business operates, Gary. So it's probably been less challenging than had I just been parachuted in on the 1st of January.

I think it's a bit of a masterstroke, and I've seen you working through that, and I think it's such a great and unusual idea, but a really great idea. Yeah, cool. I've got two more questions and then we're going to get to your musical taste, right? The first one is, so I'm sitting here, I'm in my career, I want to work my way to be a CEO over time— no guarantees, obviously. What would be the top three tips for someone early in their career to take them on a path so they're at least going in the right direction?

Identify some role models and use them extensively. You know, think through why are they role models, what are the qualities that this individual has that you admire and aspire to, and ensure that you keep that relationship and dialogue going. Build a strong and extensive network, not just in your own industry, but a strong and extensive C-suite network, and, you know, maintain and invest in those relationships. And always be learning. Always, always take an opportunity to learn, you know, get yourselves on courses, ask for assignments, you know, projects. And really, I guess I'm doing 4.

Go for it.

Um, let people know what you want and what you aspire to be in your career, you know, and ask for those stretch assignments that will facilitate that development.

That's great. That's some great advice in there for anyone listening. I think it's fantastic. Okay, the final question, then we're going to get to musical taste. So finally, what's the one thing— and it's hard to come up with one, I guess— that you wish you knew at the beginning of your journey that you know now, that would really help you if you had the chance to do it again?

You learn from failure.

Go on.

Well, I think I said it before, you know, it's the things that you don't do well or don't go well that, you know, really help to develop you. Think about those things, think about what's not gone well, you know, Whether it's a sales project and you didn't win it, you know, analyse what was it about that project, about that sales opportunity, about that presentation, about that job interview that didn't go well, you know, reflect, think deeply, be open to feedback and take action, you know, take action to whether it's, you know, get yourself on a presentation course or a finance course or interact differently in a meeting, but really think through those things and the feedback that you receive around development areas and do something about them. Invest in yourself.

I mean, it's great advice. Is there a mindset? How do you get to that place? I mean, I see a lot of sports professionals doing the same thing because normally when you get adversity, it kind of stops people or slows them down. How do you get in the mindset of driving forward rather than going backwards with that?

It takes energy and it takes Grit and tenacity, Gary. And I think it goes back to this resilience that I talked about at the beginning of the meeting. You know, you have to have a strong desire to get something done or to be successful or to complete a project. And that takes energy. It's probably not a very good answer, really. I'm struggling to answer this one a bit.

What makes you, you? Think about yourself. What gives you that motivation to turn the bad into good or to learn from it?

Again, I think I mentioned earlier on, you know, I'm acutely aware that I'm one of very few female role models in this industry that are chief executives. And I want to be the best that I can be to leave a legacy for other women in the industry and to give them the confidence that they can be future leaders, that they can be future CEOs. So I want to be the best that I can be. To leave that legacy. I've had a long and successful career, and I want to end my career being the best that I can be. But I also do it for my family. I'm hugely motivated by my family throughout my career. Everything that I've done, you know, has been for my family. I want to be a role model for my son, my daughter, and I've had the good fortune throughout my successful career to be able to provide very well for my family as well. And I think that was another significant motivator for me, Gary.

Yeah, I think that's such a great way to finish. And I can testify to that. You are a really authentic leader. You're very inspirational. I've seen you working. You've got an amazing skill to get people to work together and drive the direction together. So thanks so much for coming on. Okay, we're going to the musical taste now. Can you think of a couple of tracks, one or two tracks that have motivated you in the past that we can add to our playlist?

Wow. Okay. I would say I've got a very kind of eclectic musical taste. So when I was younger, I actually loved punk rock and that type of stuff. But these days, I kind of like a floor filler. I like a crowd pleaser. And I've talked a lot about my family, which is hugely important to me. So a song that will always, always get me on the dance floor is We Are Family by Sister Sledge. It's a great song, and, uh, I, I do like a bit of a boogie, Gary. So one of your next events, if you, uh, if you feel like getting up on the dance floor, if you put on We Are Family by Sister Sledge, I promise you a dance.

You're on, you're on. And we did have the Sex Pistols on the list already, so have you got a second, have you got a second one?

Um, back to my punk rock days, I think I would go London Calling by The Clash.

Nice, good choice. Paula, thank you so much for coming on this episode. It's been really inspiring. We appreciate you taking the time, and I think you help a lot of people. So thanks very much, and we'll see you soon.

I've enjoyed it, Gary. Thank you.

Thanks very much for listening, and a massive thank you to Paula for joining us on what has been a hugely fascinating insight into what it takes to become a CEO. We hope you've enjoyed the episode and would encourage anyone who has to visit thecompanydoctor.com to subscribe to the podcast and listen to our previous episodes. Many thanks again, and we'll see you next time.