Rise and Thrive: Embracing a Growth Mindset Journey #80

After all, all art is experience.

Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor. Today, Gary and I are very excited to be discussing what it means to have a growth mindset and how adopting a growth mindset can change the way we approach challenges, setbacks, and personal development. Together, we delve into inspiring stories, practical strategies, and expert insights from Gary to help you cultivate resilience and embrace an attitude of lifelong learning. Whether you're a student, a professional, or just someone looking to unlock your potential, understanding the principles of a growth mindset can lead to incredible breakthroughs.

Hello, Gary.

George, we're live together face to face.

It's an odd—

it's a brave new world. I don't know how even the microphone works when you're both together.

Nor do I. Well, hopefully it does work. And we're here for the first time together in one room talking about growth mindset. And it's one we wanted to do for a while. It's one which I think a lot of people don't necessarily know what we mean when we say growth mindset. I know that I certainly don't, nor do I.

Great.

And that's a wrap.

Thanks for tuning in. Thanks a lot.

So maybe we can start off by sort of outlining what the schedule is for today's growth mindset.

Absolutely. So the title is Rise and Thrive: Embracing a Growth Mindset Journey, because it's a topic we have been talking about a long time, and a lot of people have heard of it and don't know what it means. So we're going to talk about that. Yeah, but before we get into it, the key part of growth mindset is actually to have the right ambition. Okay. I know it sounds like an odd place to start, and, um, want to talk a bit about that first, really. Yeah. Why do you think it matters having an ambition?

Well, I suppose it gives you a purpose, it gives you, um, it gives you the drive.

Absolutely. So I think, I think that's it. If you think about purpose, a lot of people think ambition means I want a big car and a big house. Yeah, which I do. That's not the rule. I think it is more about purpose because if you— when we get to talk about growth mindset, if you're not motivated and you don't have a sense of purpose, then there's no point having a growth mindset. That makes sense.

Yeah. So in order— so you need to establish what that is first, or you need to just make sure that you have one?

Yes, both. Because if you, if you don't— and I think you need to go up a level. A good example would be, you know, if I said to you, what are your goals? Yeah. You might say, I want a house right now. Or some people might think of material things. But if you ask me what my purpose is, I would say I want to make a difference in what I do, and I want to have a functional family life. Yeah, I want my kids to be happy. Um, I want to have fun, and I want to look back at my life and think, that's, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, that's my ambition.

Okay. And is that sort of— it's a little bit like It's linked, I guess, to a bit of personal brand. Is that fair?

It is. My personal brand is I do what I say in more than time. But this is more about, you know, if I went for a job interview, which I won't because I'm unemployable, then what's important to me for that job is— and I'm saying this for a reason— is that I make a difference in what I do.

Yeah.

And in my, in my life, that's important to me so that, you know, we— if I want to have fun in my life with my family, then if my job's not giving me fun, then I'm not reaching my purpose.

Yeah.

Or if I'm doing something difficult, I know I'm doing it for a reason. I'll go through the pain because the game is better than the pain. Yeah, hopefully.

Never know. No pain, no gain. No pain. So, so you're saying, so the first thing to do is to establish what it is that motivates you.

What do you want? Think about, you know, anyone's listening, what do you, what do you want at a high level out of life? And I don't mean— it could be material things, and that's fine. So If you try, you might want to be, uh, you want to— might want to go up the corporate ladder, and that's fine. Whatever you want, it doesn't really matter, but have something that you want to focus on. I'm trying to avoid the material things because I think it is shorter term or too long term that you won't believe it. I'm not saying you shouldn't have goals because you absolutely should, but just think about you as a— what is your purpose and what does good look like for you over time? And then the opposite of that is not to be content with the status quo. Right. Because time goes by, months and weeks go by, and then before you know it, it's like October. Yeah. I mean, God, what's happened to 2024?

Yeah.

So there's already Christmas trees in the shops and stuff like that. So if you're not content with the status quo, then you will have a slight edge about you. Yeah. Because you're not satisfied.

Okay, so staying hungry.

Yeah, stay hungry. Yeah, hungry. Which is, uh, which is good to know because we're gonna do breakfast straight after this. I'm looking forward to that. So I just wanted to set the scene with that. So clear goals can drive personal growth and personal motivation. So having clear goals is important, but start at a high level because it's like, where are you going? What do you want to stand for?

Yeah.

And then think about motivation is going to drive you.

If you're not—

if you're feeling lethargic or, you know, you're a bit fed up, then think about why. Have you lost sight of what you want? Yeah. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. Yeah. Because it can happen. That was close.

That was close. Let's chuck that coffee cup.

We almost lost a coffee cup there. Yeah. It can be tempting to sort of, as you say, feel lethargic, get a little bit complacent and sort of stuck in your ways. And, you know, you need to assess why that's happening. Yeah, exactly. And this is a good opportunity to sort of reset and sort of reconfigure and rethink about those ambitions and what those goals are.

Exactly. And later on, we're going to talk about reframing. I remember back, one of our podcasts was about getting back in the time machine.

Oh yeah.

Just kind of have a nod to that one, really.

You get—

it's not over if you're not where you want to be and things aren't going the way you want them to go. You've got a chance to get back in your time machine, do it again. Yeah.

Ish.

No, I think that's really good.

That's really good advice because a lot of people will think, right, well, you know, I'm too far along one particular path or I'm too old or whatever it may be. To make a difference or to change.

Exactly. I mean, Ray Kroc, the guy that founded McDonald's, he did it at the age of 53. So it's never too late. You're never too old or you're never too inexperienced in that. Yeah, that's what you want to do. So yeah, that's the first bit.

Done that bit.

You're feeling settled about that and you've got your ambitions in mind. I do, actually. Do you want to share? Do you want to show us a bit personal?

Well, I'm into my writing and I learned the other day that one of my favorite writers, I reread a book called Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe, and he wrote that. It was his first novel, but he was 59. Wow. So I have ambitions to do something along those lines. So you're going to wait till you're 59 to do this? My plan is to wait till I'm 59. Yeah. Basically, I've bought myself a long time.

You give yourself time. You're never going to get started. Yeah.

It's fantastic. I'll be 58 and think, oh God, I better start.

But it's great. And you are such a good writer, so keep writing. It's fantastic. Okay, so let's get into the topic, shall we? Yes.

What, as you've written down here, what the hell is growth mindset?

What the hell is growth mindset indeed? Well, before I get there, so growth mindset comes from a lady called Carol Dweck, and she, she was inquisitive because she noticed that for some people it took them longer to overcome adversity than others. Right. And she was intrigued by that. What makes someone kind of get up quicker than someone else? You know, it's like they fell in a hole, they got back up. Yeah. And, and she did a lot of research into it. And from that research, she found out that some people had a growth mindset and some people have a fixed mindset, right? And you're thinking, yes, so what is that? And, and a lot of people who hear about growth mindset, the automatic reaction is a growth mindset is obviously a good thing and therefore it's positive, and a fixed mindset is a bad thing, is negative. And it's partially true, right? But it's harder than that because it comes from when you grow up. You, when you grow up and you develop, you learn from initially from your parents and then from people you meet and places you go and experiences you have. Yeah. And that kind of forms you as a person. So I don't think you're born with a fixed mindset. It's— and this is, this is the danger. And I'm going to give you some advice if you're a parent in some of this. But a growth mindset is about believing that your talents can be developed through hard work, good strategies, and input from others. And then you can learn more and become smarter because if you work harder, and you adapt those learnings you've had, you can get better.

Okay.

So that's high level.

Yeah.

I'm going to get into more detail. That's high level what a growth mindset is.

I think it'd be good if you could just repeat that initial sort of thing.

Yeah. So it's about believing your talents can be developed through hard work, good strategies, becoming smarter, learning from others.

Okay, great.

And the fix— I'll tell you what the fixed mindset is and I'll give you more detail. The fixed mindset is you think that only certain people are good at certain things, and the rest of us can only become as skilled as our intelligence will allow. So it's based on how smart I am rather than how I can adapt learnings to be better.

Okay. Over time. Got it.

So a good example is this. So as a parent, if you're telling your kids, you're really smart, you're telling them that one of the key measures of success is to be smart. Yeah. And then you try to live up to being smart. So your measure of growth is being smart, right? So sometimes you'll come across someone that they don't want to show failure, not because their parents, but over time.

But it might be sort of rooted in that.

Yeah. Whereas if you— I'll give you an example of someone like Andy Murray.

Yeah.

Amazing tennis player. Yeah. He was in the top 3 and he was number 1 at one time, but he had very ups and downs. Right. But he would sit on the tennis court with his bag open and notes in his bag. And after a game he'd shout at himself quite a bit. Yeah, but he would adapt his game and learn from what happened in the moment.

Right.

That is a massive growth mindset.

Yeah, that's a good analogy. And I think sports is quite a good one because they, you know, that they do that. They watch opponents' games and they try and adapt and they play the player and, you know, they sort of, they develop their talents based on what they're learning as they go along. They're not thinking, well, that's it, I'm rubbish. I'm never going to play tennis again.

No, exactly. So there's a kind of a phase that you go through to, to have a growth mindset. So the growth mindset is where you want to be because you're, you're thinking, well, I've got my goal. And this is why I want to talk about goals at the beginning. Yeah, I'm on a journey. So it's a lot. And that's why sort of the material goals are fine, but they might be a bit too short term because you think I've made it, so therefore it's over, right? Yeah. If you could take a more of a long-term view, you can say I'm still— I can still get a chance to be better. Yeah. And even if I didn't quite make it, I'll be better.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a long-term thing, isn't it? As you say, you know, we're not focused on material things because if your goal is to buy a Ferrari, then, you know, if you do that, if you reach that goal and then, you know, then what? You sort of— the growth mindset, as you said, is something which just evolves as you go through life. So, you know, if you're on your deathbed, you can look back and be like, you know, I'm happy with—

I did the best I did.

Yeah.

And it's kind of taking risks without the fear of failure. So some people are perfectionists because they want to do a good job. If you're a chef or a designer or something creative, it's because they care about it. So that's okay. But if it's because you feel the only way I can show I'm good is to be perfect, then you're going to be annoying. Yeah. But also you're setting yourself up to fail because no one's perfect. So the first thing is you've got to have belief, so you've got to cultivate a sense of purpose, if you like, as you said before. Yeah. So that's the foundation.

You've got to have that.

And then secondly, you've got to focus on the experience. Yeah. Because if you go through life without focusing on the experience, you're missing out, right? It's like the ups and downs there. We, we have a podcast coming out about the back, uh, the behind the scenes of the book. There's ups and downs in anything that you do, and it's okay as long as you get back up again.

Yeah.

And you learn from it and do it better next time.

Absolutely.

The third thing is the effort. You can acknowledge that imperfections are okay. It's okay to have them make a mistake even more than once, maybe not 3 times. And then the third thing is you look at— and I don't want to be trite about this because people talk about this— but you look at challenges as an opportunity to grow. Yeah. Because I can really learn. That's interesting. I didn't know that. And I can learn from that. I can either do it better next time or not do it next time at all. Yeah. And then feedback. It's okay. It's not critical. It depends how people say it, but it's not a criticism if you have the right mindset. It's like, let it wash over you. You don't have to get angry when someone gives you feedback. Yeah. Use it, accept it, and, you know, junk some of it if you want, or use some of it, but don't take it personally.

Don't get defensive.

Yeah, don't be defensive. I know some people give feedback in a very condescending way, right? And then the third— not third, the last one is mistakes. Just get out of your own way. People get themselves in the way. You've made mistakes. It's okay. Don't blame— there's a blame culture, right? I was in a meeting yesterday and everyone blamed someone else for whatever happened. Yeah. And who cares, right? I mean, it's not helpful.

No.

But more importantly, it's like, I'm not saying I should take the blame for everything, but look, I just— if my goal is to get to B, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. I didn't get where I need to get, so I got to do something different.

Yeah.

So that's the, that's the principle, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. So that's, that's, those are sort of the, the key— we're not really the key takeaways now, obviously, because we're only halfway through, but that seems to be like a really good foundation for the growth mindset.

Yeah, no, I think so. And we have to be careful how we try to motivate people. So if you're a manager or you're a parent, you want to reinforce the, uh, the effort. Yeah, not the intellect. It's not obvious, right? But the more you reinforce the intellect, the more harm you're doing unintentionally. Yeah. Because you're saying you're smart. Yeah. And you're not that exam out the park.

Yeah.

It's a natural thing to say, but look, you've worked hard. I know you're going to do great.

Yeah.

But it's the effort that you put the effort in.

Yeah.

That's probably the most important thing I could tell you.

That's interesting. And, you know, whenever you see these talk shows on TV, you know, you have people who've just bought a book out or they've released an album or, and I'll say, yeah, it was, it was really easy and I just put in minimal effort and it just happened.

I woke up in the morning and I wrote this song.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a bit like that. There was that movie about the Beatles when that guy woke up in the morning.

Oh, yeah.

And no one knew about the Beatles. He became a star.

It was fantastic. Brilliant. But no, they're always talking about, actually, it was really tough. I faced these challenges along the way and learned from these things and that has produced this, whatever it is that they're sort of—

Yeah, exactly. So kind of the way to think about it is praise wisely.

Yeah.

Don't praise talent, praise effort. That's what would be my tip. And that's for if you're an adult with kids or if you're a kid or if you're in work, that is my advice to you.

And we haven't had a t-shirt for a while, but I think— You like that? Praise wisely. I think it's— I'd have that on a t-shirt.

Praise wisely.

Yeah.

Yeah. We need to get some more t-shirts out, George. We've not been doing that too much. Cool. So that's part 2. But I guess then you're thinking, well, that's all very interesting, but how the hell do I do anything with that? Yeah, I think we're clear with what growth mindset is. Yes. And fixed mindset.

And a quick question, just my own sort of curiosity. Did Carol Dweck, did she sort of define these two different things?

Yeah, very much. I really recommend the book. It's nice. It's not a big read, so you could read it in one go. It talks a lot about growth mindset and fixed mindset. And if you're in a fixed mindset, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. Yeah, but it just, I just wanted to get you to think about it. It's like whatever you do in your life, whatever job you're doing, just think about it. Because if you're on a fixed mindset, you might be in the mindset of take me as you find me. Yeah, this is how I am. I've been to school, I've got the, I've got the degree, or whatever. I don't, but this is how I work, and I'm proud of what I do. And you should be.

Yeah.

But is there a better way?

Can you be better?

Yeah. Can you make that part of your DNA? And the book covers that really nicely. And then if you take it all the way through and put it into practice, even like, for example, a lot of people do coaching, you should use growth mindset as a foundation for coaching because then it's okay to improve and develop as part of your DNA rather than thinking you've got to be amazing.

Yeah. And that's really interesting as well as, you know, just, just think about it because people don't, you know, in a lot of people's minds you are who you are and that's it. But to take a step back about, oh, how do I operate sort of internally? How does my, how's my mind work? You know, it's quite, it's an interesting thing to sort of take stock of that, isn't it? Yeah.

And if you're, and also if you're like, uh, you've had a bad day, a bad week, or you're sucking your thumb because it's something terrible's happened, your boss is treating you like, yeah, shit, then just stop and you're in control of it. So it's like, it doesn't matter about external forces. If you're gonna have a good day, it's up to you. When I wake up in the morning, I've decided to have a great day. Yeah. I'm not gonna let anyone else take my goat because they don't know where it's tied. So My goat is hidden, you don't know where it is, and I decide if I have a good day. Yeah. And therefore it's up to me to decide if I'm going to have a growth mindset. And sometimes I'm rubbish at it, right? And I forget that I should be having a growth mindset and I have a very fixed mindset. But yeah, the more you can think about it, the better.

And you can't do it all the time, you know, if you have an off day, then—

Yeah, but it doesn't mean being, uh, having a growth mindset doesn't mean being super positive. It just means that I'm open-minded enough to learn from what happened and do it better next time. That's it, simple as that. So if you can be Thinking in that way, I think you'll be fine.

I'm momentarily interrupting this program to share with you the exclusive and very exciting news that the company doctor Gary Gamp has just released a book available for purchase on Amazon at a very special price. Career Catalyst is a compendium of insightful advice from the mind of the company doctor, designed to supercharge your journey on the path to career success, and it's out now on Kindle for an impossibly generous £0.99 and paperback for £10.99. Do yourself a favor, pick up a copy today, follow the 10 secret steps Gary outlines within, and start navigating the world of work with the carefree heroism of Sir Ernest Shackleton. Now back to Gary in the studio.

So we've covered what the hell is a growth mindset. I feel like I know that now, but how the hell—

How the hell do we do with the hell?

Yeah, yeah.

How the hell would that— Well, I thought what we would do in order to help people with the hell of what is the hell is to kind of connect back to NLP. Okay. Do you remember NLP?

I do, but it'd be good to—

Yeah. So for those people listening, NLP, if in AI world, is a term that's used, but I don't mean that one. So Neuro Linguistic Programming, it's a psychology. It's really a set of principles and techniques aimed at enhancing our kind of self-awareness, increasing confidence, building communication skills, and motivating positive action. Really? Yeah. But it's a psychology. And as part of it, there's a number of set pieces to get you to reprogram your mind and actions.

And it's a fascinating topic.

It is.

Sorry, I was just gonna say, a lot of people sort of jump to the conclusion that it's sort of Jedi mind tricks, but it's not. It's actually, you know, it's really sort of valuable and interesting and, um, effective. It is.

And a lot of people that use it anyway, they just don't know they're doing it. Yeah. So highly recommend. We've got a great episode with Tony Bryan on that, so I highly recommend that. And he's written a great book on it because it uncovers how it works. But I just want to pick one idea to use to leverage growth mindset. Is that a good idea?

I think it's a great idea.

And it's called reframing.

It's perfect, right? It's like we knew that that was going to happen.

We knew it was going to happen. And it's kind of like getting back in your spaceship. Yeah. So reframing is changing the frame of an experience. So you've got an experience to change the frames that can have a major influence on how you perceive, interpret, or react to that experience. So you're going to reframe how you interact with that experience because your mind is programmed. So a good example would be if you come across adversity, your mind goes, here we go, here we go again, just my luck. Yeah. And so that's what I can't believe, it always happens to me. It's like there's someone in a boardroom somewhere making things bad for you.

Yeah.

And I can't believe they've done this to me again, whoever they are, right? Has anyone seen that before?

Yeah.

So here's an example of a reframe. Being told you've got 1 hour to do a task versus 1 week to do a task. How do you feel?

Pretty stressed.

But what about if I told you you now have a week to do the task? I feel great. And what is the difference of the task itself?

You still have to do it, but it's just the psychology.

It's in your head, right? And it takes you to a different emotional state. You with me? Yeah. And that's what happens in life. So it's external circumstances.

Yeah.

That change your emotional state.

Yeah. Well, I'm sort of quite guilty of if I know that I've got a few tasks on, I get quite stressed. And then as soon as I complete them, I think, oh, that actually wasn't so bad. And I, you know, it was, it was fine. But I still can't help but get that initial sort of rush of panic when things start piling up. And I think what you're saying is that doesn't have to be that way.

It doesn't. And I'm only using time as an example, but it's not only time things, it's just an external circumstance. If you reframe— I'm just using the example of reframing. Yeah. If I reframe your task, instead of an hour, you've got a week, your emotional state changes.

Yeah, that's a reframe.

Absolutely. So connecting reframing to growth mindset.

Yeah.

Well, hopefully it's like a model to get people to think of things in a slightly different way. Because what, what is causing the stress and the actual task itself? I mean, you've got to have enough time to do the task. I don't want to just focus on tasks, which could be something else, but yeah.

Um, well, we can link it to your analogy of going to town money, which we spoke about, I forget which episode. Yes, it's that sort of idea that you almost convince yourself that, you know, you should trick yourself into having the confidence because you know you've got this, um, this going to town money.

I like that, and that's a good example. So I've got a little model that people can use. Yeah, great. Not an FX model or anything like that. It's a shame, but it's kind of concept is if X happens, then I'll do Y. If X happens, I'll do Y. And what you do is you reframe in your mind if a certain thing happens, what you're going to do about it. Yeah. Rather than going, oh no, I can't believe it's happened to me again. Yeah, I lost that game. I meant to win it. Uh-huh. Use the tennis analogy again. Yeah. So the reason I think you need longer-term goals is if you focus on winning every single match, then it's quite hard. But if you want to be the top 10 tennis player, that match is on your journey towards being a tennis player. Therefore, you've got time enough in your time in your mind to learn from it and do better next time. Yeah. But if the be-all and end-all, and it would be in a final, I guess, is to win that game on its own in its entirety forever. Yeah. Then, and that's a reframe.

Yeah.

And are you with me?

Yeah, it's sort of the, it's the difference between losing that match and thinking, oh well, I guess I'm rubbish then. Tennis. Yeah, all thinking, right, that was a shame, I'm gonna win the next one.

And it's very rare you'll see a tennis player go, right, that's it, I'm useless.

By being Nick Kyrgios.

Um, so let's use it in business, right? So if I lose a deal, yeah, I've been working on a proposal, an opportunity, and then I lose it, it's really disappointing. I might have been working on 3 months, right?

Yeah.

And I should have won it. I'm useless. If only I had— yeah. And then, and because you're— and any— if you're in sales, actually, you're only as good as your last win, so you probably might get fired. But aside from that, um, but you could— though, if I lose a deal, I'm going to learn from it. You know, actually, you know what, if I'd only— if I'd sent— no, I knew they had some issues. If I'd sent them a note, yeah, and saying— calling out those issues in advance and giving them some solutions, maybe that would have tipped it over. So if I If I lose a deal, I'll learn from it and I use my knowledge on the next one. Here's another example. Yeah, I want to improve my client relationships, which is a big statement to make. Okay, great. Now if I don't give myself an if-then and a why, then I won't do anything about it.

Yeah.

So if I want to improve my client relationships, then that's my if and then I will have to have 3 meetings a week and ask better questions. That's a specific thing to go and do.

Yeah.

It gives me a growth mindset because then this week I only did 2 meetings, so next week I should do 3.

No, I like that.

It's like, um, it's like an algorithm.

Yeah.

Do you know what an algorithm is?

I do, but that's—

should we tell people what it is? Yeah. So an algorithm is just a set of rules to be followed.

Yeah.

So if you— the best way to reframe is to give yourself a set of rules to follow.

Yeah.

So if something happens, then I will do this.

Yeah.

Not then I will cry.

That's, um, that's really interesting to think that, because I think people associate algorithms with computer programming, but all it is is just programming, isn't it? So you can do it in your own mind and it works to the same sort of efficiency.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. And so if I give some examples of reframing and then we go back to the, the if and then, then we'll finish. Right. So the reframing is self-talk. You know, the thing you say to yourself is the most damaging thing. So don't be overly self-critical. Be kind to yourself as you would be to other people.

Exactly.

Yeah, the self-talk— watch yourself talk. So if you're sitting there thinking— I mean, sometimes, like, you get to use Annie Murray, he just— I can't believe I'm such an idiot. But just watch yourself talk. What are you telling yourself? Because that's what you're programming your mind to do. So if you want to reframe, be kind to yourself. Number 2, behaviors. Don't be impulsive, stubborn, fearful, or loud. Be spontaneous, persistent, careful, Exuberant. Exuberant's a good word. Be exuberant. Yeah, be positive that things are going to get better. But I don't need to be the superhero, but I can— it could be better than it was. Yeah, even if it's slightly. Avoid that 'I can't,' 'it won't,' 'it's too hard,' and they'll die from that. And be more— think more 'I can,' 'it will,' 'it's possible.' Yeah, if you've got hope and you think it's possible, then you don't have to be the superstar, but you can get better. Don't be defeated and hopeless. Take action. Yeah. Because action, even a small step, makes you move forward and makes you feel that you can.

I actually had a salesperson who was defeated constantly. Right. And how did that go? Not very well. She brought it upon herself in a way, you know, for every sale or every deal that didn't go her way, it sort of heaped more sadness on her. And that was sort of her attitude.

Yeah, it's just a downward spiral, isn't it? And by the way, I'm not saying you can win everything and that's all this is about. It's just that if you can be incrementally better, then why wouldn't you? Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And then for that, with that in mind, instead of catastrophizing, yeah, we, everyone sits around and say, I can't believe they did this to me and blah, blah, blah. Turn the situation around. It's in your hands. That's the challenge for people. It's in your hands. And finally, don't focus on what could go wrong unless you're a project manager, because then you should. But think about the opportunities as a result of. So that would be my reframing advice. That's great. So, you know, back to the if and then. So the model of if and then planning is a way of reframing things with turning kind of vague intentions into specific actions. So that's what I want to leave you with.

Yeah. And that's, that's the example you said of saying, you know, I want to improve my client relations. You know, you could— anyone can just say that. Yeah. But to actually do it, you need to have, you know, you need to have a plan.

And if you do that, you tell it psychologically, you tell yourself that I'm doing it and I'm moving forward.

Yeah.

And I've learned from the experience, therefore growth mindset. Yeah, but also if you don't do it, you've got, you've got a foundation to know what you need to do next week. So turn vague intentions into specific actions, George. Yeah, that's it.

I like that a lot.

That's growth mindset linked to NLP, linked to if and then planning in the bag.

Love it. And do you have 3 takeaways, or is it sort of, is this, are we going to buck the trend and not do that?

No, no, I think we can do 3 spontaneous takeaways. I think the first one is you need to have a sense of purpose. Yes, because that is the foundation, but make it high enough that it's not for tomorrow, but it's slightly further in the future. I think it's really important to do. The second one is just be tuned into having a growth mindset because it's easy to slip into a fixed mindset. But if you can consider that you look worse trying to show how clever you are than if you show progress. Yeah, that's a bit of a deep one.

No, no, I think that's really good.

And therefore, in order to help other people and yourself, praise wisely. Don't praise talent, praise effort. And finally, think about NLP. Can you reframe the way you're thinking using if and then planning? And then you'll bring to life your growth mindset. And then you nailed it.

You nailed it.

We nailed it.

Thank you, Gary.

That was fascinating as always. And thank you all for listening.

I hope you enjoyed this episode, our first sort of IRL live episode in the kitchen.

Yeah, plenty more of those to come.

So thank you again and we will see you next time.

See you soon.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Company Doctor. We have special bonus episodes coming up to mark the release of The Company Doctor book, Career Catalyst: 10 Secret Job Skills They Don't Teach You at School. So keep an eye out for those. And in the meantime, do head over to thecompanydoctor.com where you can listen back through 80 episodes of solid gold wisdom and peruse various other show notes and extras. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.