S.A.S: Sales Acceleration Secrets with Founding Partner of Smart/tasking, Niall Anderson #43

After all, all art is experience.

Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor for an episode all about accelerating sales. Neil Anderson is the CEO of SmartTasking, the specialists in helping global organizations solve operational business challenges with practical expert help. Here he joins Gary to reveal the secrets of optimization, the truth about likability, and the sales trends that lie just around the corner. Gary, Neil, welcome.

Over to you. Hey, Neil, thank you so much for joining this episode. This episode is Sales Acceleration Secrets in brackets, SAS. Just one of those things I thought would be funny, but it wasn't probably.

Welcome.

How are you?

I'm very good, Gary. Thank you very much for the invitation to join your podcast. Looking forward to it.

Well, it's a pleasure. We've been looking forward to it because who better than Neil Anderson to talk about sales acceleration secrets? So I thought, Neil, the best way to get started, as always, is maybe for you to introduce yourself briefly and the company that you work for. So let us know about you.

Perfect. Well, thanks for that, Gary Gamp. So I'm one of the founders of a company called Smarttasking. We're really all about business optimization, and clearly part of that is How do they get to sell more and accelerate their growth through sales? And a quick bit of my background. I started off life as an apprentice in a long-forgotten industry the UK used to have called the defense industry, which really gave me a good grounding in life, but taught me to be pretty practical, logical way of thinking about things. So I am actually an engineer at trade. I think that helps me think about stuff. And then went on to kind of really work my way through from there, got into sales pretty early in my career. And then we got a passion for kind of helping our clients and my clients just to achieve their own growth expectations through a change of behavior and way they think about sales. Leading up to, some would say, probably overpromoted, ended up on main board positions of a couple of tech companies and then really realized that I had a bit of an itch to go and do something for myself and hence became one of the co-founders and co-owners of smarttasking.com.

That's brilliant. And we're going to dig into that a little bit more. I think you're being very humble. You're a very experienced sales director in many big, big corporations in the past. But we'll dig into that as we go through. So I guess my first question is, you mentioned that SmartTasking is an optimizer. What is an optimizer to the uninitiated?

So it's really taking a look at clients and really helping them to understand what they do differently to really optimize their performance. And really there's two lenses. They're either optimizing for top line growth or they may be optimizing for bottom line profitability. But it's usually a combination of the two. So how do we do that? We really take a look at how they're operating, look for ways to improve there, and also become part of their team. So we've got to do it with them and alongside them to get the maximum return of the investment they make with us. But it's really about making them operate faster, smoother, more efficiently, and to really start to accelerate their own growth aspirations.

That's great. I mean, what a great intro to talking about sales acceleration. Or optimization and using your terminology. But it's interesting actually, Neil, because lots of businesses, they want to accelerate, they want to get things moving. But what, from your experience, what's the difference between what people normally do to sell and accelerating growth?

Yeah, I think a couple of things there. So for me, it's really about some underpinning behavior really. I think whenever you're selling, you have to have a deep understanding of the client you're trying to sell to. Understand whatever you're providing to them and how it fits with their own objectives. Too often in my career, salespeople get overly focused on their own proposition of what they're trying to sell rather than the impact or the value it creates for the buyer. And that's often the mis-trick, and they wonder why they're not as successful as they should do, is they're kind of trying to sell what they have rather than what the client actually needs and is ready to absorb or take on board. So it's really down to having that deep knowledge and understanding of the client, and what they're trying to achieve, which is often forgotten along the sales journey.

No, I mean, it's interesting you talked about the value, and it kind of leads me to ask a question really. So if you're lifting the covers on the secrets— so we talk about the sales acceleration— what are the key things then that people need to do that make the biggest difference?

I think things to do is, is when you experience ours, is, is start with recognizing that you need to qualify well and really understand if you can help the client. And that means learning to say no or changing the process and providing another service. But let's not forget the value you can only perceive by the person buying the service. You can't give someone value as to the value they recognize that they're trying to achieve. And again, you can only do that by having built up a deep and trusted relationship with your clients, which usually comes through a level of collaboration. And if the client won't collaborate with me, my chances of being successful are somewhat remote and removed. So I always try and look for triggers to find a way to co-create a solution and take that client on the journey with us would really help achieve more success.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because you must work with lots of companies around the world and, and when you work with different companies, is everyone going through the same kind of thing? Are they in the same situation or is it— have you come across people that are really good at doing this stuff?

I think majority struggle with this, right? Particularly in the world we live in over the last few years, right? Selling is based on relationship and I do believe people buy from people. But they buy from people who they trust and can create a value they recognize and work together on. Now the ones that do really well typically either have a very unique proposition that there's a natural need for it, or they disrupt the current thinking of the client or the buyer and help co-create that solution, which often means it doesn't go out to a full-blown RFP or a tender response because they actually co-create the solution. But they can also start to recognize the consequences of doing something or doing nothing. Clearly, people make an investment to help them achieve their own objectives. I'm old enough to remember the days at the end of the last century where people were buying technology just for the sake of buying technology because they're worried about what happened at December 31st, 1999. And guess what? Nothing happened. It was odd. People on standby thinking systems and technology would close. It didn't. But other than that, people only make an investment if they can make a direct correlation to how it's going to help them achieve their objectives. If we can't demonstrate and show we actually recognize that, the chance of winning are really removed because we're now competing for budget spend with our clients against lots of other items, not just technology or optimization improvement or investment.

Yeah, I mean, as you were speaking about it, it conjures up some thoughts for me because, you know, I talk to lots of people also and they talk about RFPs and win rates and things like that. And I think the average win rate's on like 30%, which means that people are losing 70% of the time. So, you know, building on what you've just said, what's your thoughts on that then? So what are people missing? Because 70% of the time they're obviously getting it wrong.

Yeah, I think I'm with you. I think a lot of companies would love to have 30% win rate and some are loading that, right? But then it starts to start the process. They end up bidding things they've not influenced in how they've created it and therefore They perhaps are very late to the process, being asked to respond to something they actually should say no to, but go back and say, yeah, I'd love to work with you, but I just need to know more about you, rather than just trying to respond to an RFP. My view is you should at least be winning more than you're bidding, you know, more than you're losing. So 50% would be a good benchmark, we hope, right? But it really, by qualifying well, you have to recognize there's a lot of bid cost, and sometimes they, they try and resource lots of RFPs and don't get any of them because they're too thin on resources rather than actually focusing on the ones they can win and doing a better job with that to try and improve that. So there's a balance between saying no more often or can we change the process and not wasting time on bids you're never going to win, right? So if I had a pound, a euro or a dollar for every salesman said, when we lose something, we lost on price, then we all know they didn't. They lost on relationship. And they lost a lot. They had to create enough value the buyer recognized. And see, when they win a deal, it's all about then what a great job they did. And they forget that. Hey, I'm selling. Yeah, aren't I amazing? But selling in today's world is definitely a team sport and that team includes the client.

Yeah. I mean, it was interesting during COVID times because it kind of brought things to a head. I mean, talking about the value, COVID was interesting for business because lots of companies had to pivot. Some people seem to do well, maybe technology, What have you seen happen as a result of COVID Have you got any examples of businesses that use the pandemic to either accelerate or fine-tune what they did and made it work even when others didn't?

Yeah, I think it's those, those companies that responded fastest and pivoted to that. At one client I work a lot with, coming from an industry that was very much used to going to a place of work to do the work, but they really accelerated the embracing of technology and It sounds odd in the world we live in, but even down to equipping their teams to work remotely, they're in a very compliant environment. So they're used to going to work to do the work, but they really pivoted and embraced technology and automation to optimize their environment. And they've had a pretty stellar performance over the last few years and they are leading their industry segment by, by the use of technology. So we've seen that underneath that is a big change in culture, a change of how people actually do their work. So I think it's the clients that embraced it, pivoted, and probably accelerated their own evolution come out of the pandemic in the strongest position. Those that kind of sort of batten down the hatches and kind of buried their head in sand a little bit, they don't come out quite so strong. So I think the pandemic just accelerated evolution of clients as they develop their own way. They monetize what they actually do by using technology and really embracing new ways of working.

Yeah, no, it's been interesting to see. I mean, I know you used to be a rugby coach until recently, and if you're not getting results in a business or in sales, some people complain that their salespeople are not getting results, it's their fault. Is it the coach or is it the team?

Oh, it's definitely the coach, right? So, as you know, I have my own business and I'm a co-founder. Too often I think about if I went back to a big corporate job, I would definitely turn the organization chart upside down. So I think do away with the title of manager and sales director and CRO. They're a case of being a mentor, a coach, or a super coach, or a performance coach. So I think the job of a leader is to coach their teams to improve performance. And most people understand that in a sporting environment, whether it's rugby, football, team sport, individual sport, it's incremental changes that make difference. And everyone kind of gets that. If you're running a marathon, you've got to go and train. When you talk to sales leaders and say, when was the last training session you had with your team? Leading up to a key pitch or a significant opportunity, are you actually coaching them on that journey or you're just asking, you know, when's the deal going to happen and what's its value and is it in the forecast? It doesn't move the dial. We've got to much more focused on helping to coach salespeople and test them, right? And learn in a safe environment. But when was the last time we saw a salesperson practice a presentation? Say, can I grab a few people? I've got a big pitch on Friday. Can you validate and ask you questions. I'm going to ask something best prepared. So it's down to a lack of preparation. Coaches do not let a team go on any field without preparation. Why do we let salespeople go in front of key calls and wonder why they, they think they come second, but they probably came 8th or 9th and never win anyway, right? So yeah, let's just focus on making a few changes.

But does it ever reflect on the players? I mean, I know, for example, you won't mind me sharing, but you used to work in a pub I did used to work in a pub. You still did. You used to, you used to, right? No, we just go to a pub. Yeah, exactly. But, um, someone came— you told me the story once— someone came to the pub who was really impressed with your relationship skills. So obviously you, you, you have good relationship skills, and they gave you a chance, they offered you a job. Yeah. Is there an ideal type of person that, uh, that is attracted or is good in sales, do you think?

Yeah, I would definitely believe they're a lot of people think about, oh, you're born to be something. Well, I don't think that. I think everyone can be changed, developed, and grow. But there is a mindset that underpins that, and there's been plenty of work around growth mindset being formed early in our development. But I think the skills that underpin a good salesman is that ability to really invest time and be a good relationship builder. And back to, you know, example, yeah, I did, I lived in a pub, got to know an MD of a business., and I was just being myself by chatting to him, welcoming him, making sure he got his favorite glass and favorite chair in the bar. I got to know him really well, but I genuinely invested in the relationship, and he then invested in me for the first 14 years of my career, you know, and, and I am indebted to him forever. But I think too often people are very superficial about building relationships, and they go, yeah, I've got a great relationship with a client, and you ask one or two basic questions and they really don't have a great relationship with a client. And that's my point of when you lose a deal, I think you lose a deal on that relationship because if you have a strong relationship, the client will share with you where they can, right? The proposition isn't quite right. The level of investment is not quite where they need to be. If you have a relationship, you can then decide to either walk away from that deal because it's not a good return for your own company, or at least have a conversation about that. But to just walk away and say, I've lost on price, that's just poor selling. People don't lose on price, in my belief.

So do you think we can kind of dig into some of those secrets? Because we're going to divulging sales acceleration secrets. If relationships are that important and a lot of people will glibly say, as you said, I know the customer well, I know his wife's name and when the birthday is. From your experience, is there a better way to maximize relationships in a genuine way?

Yeah, I think, I think whatever you do, you've got to be authentic and genuine, right? And, you know, I'm old enough to remember the days when we didn't have all the tools available to now, right? So I think there's no excuse in the modern way of selling, not to know what's going on with any particular business, you know, whether they're listed or, or unlisted privately owned company. There's free information out there to give you some sense of what they're trying to do. The same thing, right? There's social media platforms, there's LinkedIn, right, which helps us maintain our visibility in a credible way with our clients. But you have to really invest and remember not be kind of fake about building that relationship. I've got examples of people that I still work with today that my first commercial relation with them was in my 20s, which is 35 years ago, and we still have a business relationship. But you build together and you become trusted. It's when they start to ask your opinion and shared advice, then you know you really have got a trusted relationship. And so you have to go a bit deeper. You can't do everybody. I definitely recognize that, but those are important. I think you end up forming some really strong relationships with our clients and buyers over a period of time, but it takes a level of conscious effort to remember things about them, not to keep asking them the same questions, you know, where'd you live? How many kids you got? You married? It's all, you know, basic stuff, right? But it's, it's going to be deeper than that and becoming really credible at building those relationships, which I say takes effort and a conscious approach to doing that.

But you probably do it naturally for, for people that are listening that kind of want to be better at it. What, what's any advice you'd give them to improve relationships? Beyond what you've said?

Yeah, I find ways to show your thinking about them. So it's a really good example is one of our clients right now is going through their privately owned company, sorry, their private equity owned company. They're on acquisition trial. I just saw a really interesting report. I give the people a different view of how you can think about when you're looking at an M&A target, what things to think about. All I did was just copy and paste the link from a social media platform and emailed it to that person. Which shows that I'm really thinking about them. I'm not just waiting for our next meeting or next catch-up. It was a simple note of, hey, I saw this, thought about where you are. It really made me think about a few things we should be looking for when we do consider an M&A target. Just send it to him. Straight away he responded, said, thanks for that. I hadn't seen this. It's really helpful. But in— I'm showing them I kind of care about them and really not just, you know, trying to be a buyer-seller. There's nothing in that for me. I'm just being generous with something I've seen and thought you'd like it. So I would definitely say be generous. Great advice. Yeah, be generous to people. Remember, things are important to them. And, and the thing that, that really annoys me is when you are generous with people, then they, you know, disappear for a few years, then they come back around again when they want to help on something, or they're looking for another job or another piece of advice. That's not very authentic. You wouldn't treat your friends like that. So just find the level of natural balance with people, how they want to be invested in a relationship as well. And I think that really helps. But, but be authentic. Find ways to, to show and demonstrate that you think about people.

Yeah, you are naturally good at that. And, you know, that's why I was asking, because I think you do— you are naturally good at it and you do it, you know, genuinely. But not everyone thinks that way, and I was just trying to find a way for people that don't actually think that way to start thinking that way.

Yeah, well, maybe some practical advice I might do is I I often think about my connections of, as we do in our private lives, right? Who do I want to see on a monthly basis? Who do I want to speak to on a monthly basis? Who do I want to speak to on a quarterly basis? And perhaps who do I want to see on a 6-monthly basis? And I just run a simple spreadsheet that says, you know, I've not spoken to this person for a couple of months. I'll just drop them a note with a, you know, think about you, saw this, how's it been going since the last time we caught up? Just being proactive with that in a kind of genuine way. And if you talk to my connections, they would say that's kind of how we are. And some go, We speak every week, every month. So I'm going to be touch base every few months and that's kind of fine. And more if we're doing so together or less if we're not. I also would say be generous with your network and connections you have. If you know someone can help somebody else, just introduce them, connect them, find a way for them to meet with no other view of it. It's just a good thing to do for people. Be generous with that. At some point, who knows, they'll be generous back with you, but just be be known as a good networker and a good broker of relationships, I think, is a useful skill to have.

Okay. And Neil, how important is being likable? And that's an odd question really, but is likability an important thing? And how do you, if it is, how the hell do you make people like you more?

Yeah, that's a great question, Gary, right? I think likability underpins a lot, particularly for salespeople and those that face clients. We have to recognize not everyone likes everyone, right? We're all different. So it's been knowing really when to sort of just flex your personality or natural traits a little bit to meet the person you're talking to. But fundamentally, if you are a very strong personality traits that aren't moldable or bendable to people, then you can push people away from you. It doesn't mean being not authentic and change what you are, but just try and, you know, fit in with as many people as you can. Just flex your personality, recognizing that when to be a bit more out there a bit more, you know, gracious to how you operate, or when to be a bit calmer and a bit more reserved. And everyone's different. But I'm with you, likeability is a key factor.

I think that's great. I like you, by the way. So I want to switch tracks a little bit. It's a well-known path of being business issues driven is an important driver to help people buy from you. Are there any kind of trends or things that people should look out for a link to business issues, particularly in the current market that people should be aware of and focus on?

Yes. So a couple of things to think about and, you know, to give away a few tips, right? One thing I think the last few years has taught us that we are competing for any investment with things we weren't competing with in the past. So a good example may well be, we're normally in the world that we operate is normally in the technology area budget, right? So normally competing with other technology-based projects. But over the last few years, we're now competing with other investments who could be, they need to be investing in facilities, might be to invest in their pensions, pot for their business. We're now competing with other investment levels. So we really need to understand how any investment's going to be funded. Is it coming out of operational existing expenditure? Just going to change it and point it in a different direction. Is it coming out of a special budget to drive transformation? Or is it coming out of soft savings in other parts of the business? But we need to understand, is it going to be a capital expenditure or an operating expenditure? And my experience tells me, you ask a salesman just those few questions— what is the budget that's been allocated to this thing and where is it being funded from, i.e., where does it sit in the P&L— and you'd be surprised that most salespeople just don't know. And they end up getting their solution people design a very complicated solution that perhaps doesn't quite meet the budget and/or they can't describe the value it's going to give to the client. And they wonder why the project just gets delayed and that committed deal for the quarter gets moved to the following quarter. It's just not important enough for the client. So I think we need to think about what am I competing with, other internal expenditure, not just the technology investment budget.

Yeah, okay. That's really useful. And you're a consultant, you meet lots of companies, different people. And when you go in, I guess from your experience, you know what you're looking for. From your experience, what are the top tips to accelerate sales? So you talk to someone, they're really keen to put the foot down and accelerate. What would be your top tips to help them move the dial?

So firstly, I really understand what their overall objective of the business is. As I said at the beginning of our conversation, Gary, they're either trying to grow the top line or they're trying to grow the bottom line or a combination of the two. So what are the— what's the overall trajectory of the client or the prospect. If there's a compliance driver in there, we know that's something they have to get done. So it's quite important. But are they trying to make an investment to grow their business through a different customer experience, or they're trying to grow their business via retention, you know, back to some of the things we optimize around. So one of the predominant drivers for the client is always where I want to start. Then I want to really test out their appetite for change. A lot of people talk about, we're going to change the way we structure our sales team, we're going to change the way we go to market. And you go, well, really, are you? What are you going to do different? And is it different enough to actually delight the customer in some way? So there's sort of questions I want to start having early in the conversation. I'm really just trying to sense out what is the real appetite and driver for any significant investment or change in how they currently operate. And again, some of that can be done remotely. You can do that remotely before you meet the client in some cases, just by doing some extra research. Which is another trait of making sure that clients are trying to accelerate their growth by selling to their clients, is make sure they're doing adequate preparation research before every client meeting.

And now you're armed and dangerous. What would you do with it?

Now you're armed and dangerous. You've got to find the right stakeholders. You've got to really find which function gets the biggest benefit, what we're trying to sell, right? And sometimes we get surprised with the person we're trying to sell to Yeah, they have their own agenda. The actual beneficiary of whatever the investment is, is perhaps a different function. You know, I'm often, with my background, I'm often looking to how does that client serve their clients? You know, who is worried about the customer experience or who's worried about selling what that client does? 'Cause they're a big stakeholder in any decision to invest. If we get them on board, then they'll support any investment for any changes in the back office or changes in how they operate. Because they can link it to them driving customer growth. People don't buy things just for the sake of buying them.

Apparently not.

It was good to know. Apparently not.

I've got, look, I've got a couple of big questions for you and then we're going to find out about your musical taste. So just a couple of questions. The first of the two is just reflecting, you know, you've got so much experience and, you know, wealth of knowledge looking back on your career, you know, knowing what you know now, I suppose. If you were giving advice to your younger self, reflecting on that background, what would you advise yourself to do?

Good, great question, right? So looking back, I think what we all learn is we develop, right? And I definitely believe none of us are finished yet, so we still keep learning. But I think too often the sales profession, right? And I'm proud to say I'm a sales professional, right? I've been in sales for most of my life and career, but a lot of the way we're driven and managed is by an output. You know, what are the questions like? What's your number for the month? What's your number for the quarter? How are you looking for half year? They're very kind of output-based. I would always encourage an earn to think about the inputs. You know, how much effort am I putting in with my clients? You know, how much time am I spending? How many meetings am I having? How many opportunities do I get to actually propose something? Because I need to focus on my input metrics, which are a key behavior, which will then improve my output metrics, which are the deliverables to the business. So I definitely focus more on that and I'd find a natural rhythm and cadence to do that because otherwise you become a kind of a boom and bust salesperson. You have a great quarter because you've got lots of stuff in flow and you win or lose it, but then you forget to do your business development and then you go to having a pretty quiet quarter. Then it comes around again over a year, you end up with an average year. The mindset's got to be, is this month better than last month? Is this quarter better than last quarter? And focus on the input metrics that will drive the outcome and the output. So tip for a sales leader, definitely focus on the input metrics. You know, what's the actual level of activity like? How many customers are we actually talking to? Where are we engaged in collaborative workshops, etc., etc.? Then you'll start to see the quality and how you can drive an output, which is a successful conclusion to the sales process.

I mean, it's interesting you should say that because I know a lot of sales teams have multiple metrics, maybe too many metrics. Do you think you can get bombarded by too much?

Data? I think you need to focus on the data that's most important, but do it in a kind of practical and pragmatic way. Otherwise, you end up with too many bits of information. You may turn into a great sales plan, but you never actually go and execute against it. So make it simple to operate and make sure you drive those behaviors through your sales teams to make sure there's a consistent level of activity, which kind of becomes the team standard. If we're in this team, this is what we expect. Therefore we start to predict a better outcome rather than this kind of constant surprises in the last week, last month of the quarter when things don't quite happen.

I mean, you know, it's interesting what you say because you've seen all sorts of companies, all sorts of people, and you've probably seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I don't want you to name names, but during this journey, I guess the good ones are few and far between. Can you think of a, you know, a team or, you know, or even some people without naming anyone that you've come across and you thought, well, these guys really stand out And if everyone could be like them, sales would be so much better.

Yeah, there's the— in my career, I've seen some great salespeople, some great sales leaders, but I've seen a lot of average people. And I think one area to stand out, reminding me now that question, is, is really where the culture is good within the team. So they have a high performance culture, which means there's consequences both positive and negative, right? They've kind of created a team standard. The culture is good. And they really focus down on qualification of the opportunity, right? Because they can't resource every opportunity. So they really qualify really well. But when they go after an opportunity, they then look to find ways to delight, surprise the client wherever they possibly can to make sure they stand out as a differentiated offer. And then when they celebrate the successes, they win. So I see it as a really good example of a team that works together. With a consistent view of how they're going to operate, what they focus on, core behaviors leading to successful outcomes.

Good reflection. Okay, we've got the last question, then we're going to your musical taste. So the last question here, and this is important for us because it kind of summarizes the episode. So if you could give 3 takeaways for Sales Acceleration Secrets, what would they be? I only want 3 on the spot, Mr. Anderson.

Qualification, you know, qualify better, which means you've got to say no to some things. Do it in a professional way. You might be surprised what the client tells you when you go back and, and say, I'm not going to bid this piece of work. I would then build on that. You've got to look to find ways to differentiate yourself and maybe disrupt the process, because the world we live in today, you know, people go to market and they'll be looking for various providers and suppliers, right? So you've got to find a way to differentiate yourself and disrupt process, I would do that. But most importantly, I often question if a client won't allow us to collaborate with them and co-create a solution. I already know that we're on the back foot a little bit to win. So my 3 takeaways would be qualify well, look to disrupt or differentiate the process, and find ways to actually collaborate with the customer so they can co-create the solution would be the behaviors I think make a bit of a difference if you're a sales leader running a sales team.

Wow, that's gold. Thank you, Neil. That's fantastic. So listen, we're going to get to musical taste, but before we do, I wanted to thank you so much. You've got so much experience. It comes out as if it's an obvious thing to you because you're, you're close to it. But I think, you know, for people listening, there's some real gold in there and we're really going to benefit from it. So thanks for coming on. And before we go, you know, we, as a lot of people know, we have a podcast playlist on Spotify where we collect from our guests some music taste that is inspirational or means a lot to them. So one or two tracks, Neil, from you, then we can add them to the playlist.

Good, Rowan. Thanks, Gary Gamp, for the opportunity to talk with you. I've really enjoyed that. My two tracks, you mentioned before about me being a rugby coach. I coached a bunch of young guys from the age of 6 to 18, and I needed to find some ways to give them some inspirational music in the pre-match changing room. Which have become two of my favorite tracks, one from my era and one a little bit more they connected with. So the first track would be Eminem, Lose Yourself. There's a good pre-match warm-up or a pre-conference warm-up, maybe. Nice. And the second one is more from, from my era, is, is one of my all-time favorites by Blondie called Dreaming. If you listen to the drum beat in there, you cannot help but feel more motivated and energized. So they'll be my two tracks.

I love those two tracks. They weren't what I was expecting, to be honest, but they're great, and we're going to add them to the playlist. And, uh, thank you, Neil, again for joining us on this episode. You've been listening to Neil Anderson, Sales Acceleration Secrets, SAS. Thank you, and look forward to seeing you again soon.

Thanks, Gary.

Don't forget, you can catch up on all previous episodes and company, Dr. Sewings On by visiting thecompanydoctor.com. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.