The Inside Track to Consistency and Persistency with Founder of Meet You At The Barre, Jen Brown #42

After all, all art is experience. Hello and welcome to The Company Doctor. Today we're joined by the highly revered barre instructor Jen Brown, who started her company as a side hustle run from a studio in her garden and whose classes were quickly hailed by mainstream media as the number one workouts to do during lockdown. Today she talks to Gary about the importance of persistence, consistency, and building habits. And how these qualities transcend the discipline of barre classes and inform our day-to-day lives. Enjoy the episode and do visit thecompanydoctor.com to subscribe and listen to previous episodes.

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Hey, Jen, thanks so much for joining The Company Doctor.

Oh, I'm delighted to be here.

Well, we're even more delighted that you're here because the topic today is the inside track to persistency and consistency., and a little bit of unconscious good habit. So we thought, who better to have on than, than Jen Brown?

Well, it's interesting, isn't it? I think that consistency is the current kind of buzzword in exercise, so you've timed it quite well. It seems to be everything people are talking about.

It seems to be, and I've got so many questions for you. So what I thought I'd do, my first one is obviously we want to introduce you. So the very first question I wanted to ask you is, tell us a bit about yourself, a quick intro to yourself. And what you're up to, what you do. So I think it'd be great.

So my name is Jen and I, um, I'm a barre instructor. Not many people outside the fitness world really know what barre is. It's a mixture of Pilates and classical ballet and more traditional strength training moves. I run my company from the studio in my garden and I've got 4 kids, so it started off as a sideline hustle, really just something to get me through the days. But when lockdown hit I put my classes online for my then attending students, and for some mystical reason, the Mail Online picked up my classes and they ran my classes as their number one workout to do in lockdown, which was, I mean, very welcome, but completely unexpected at the time. Like I said, I have 4 kids, 2 weren't even in school, 2 were. Being homeschooled and I suddenly went from having kind of 300, I don't think I even had 300 Instagram followers to having, you know, a few thousand overnight.

And you went pretty viral, didn't you?

Well, to be honest, I mean, it's difficult to say that because I think in the Instagram world we think of being viral as being, you know, hundreds of thousands of followers, whereas I'm still around 20,000. But what it has given me is this online platform that provides a service specifically towards midlife women. So I target women between the age of 35 and pushing up to— I've got definitely got clients in their 60s, but generally 35 to 60. And I provide a service for them to make them feel good about themselves. It's a really underutilized part of the market, this idea that you've had your children and then you just shuffle off into the middle distance and you're, you know, you're done. I happen to disagree quite vehemently with that.

And that's what I love about you. You're, you're kind of inspiring, and, and it— you can see it at the beginning because if you, if you go to Jen's website, Meet You at the Bar, uh, Jen is a bar instructor, she said. She's a food enthusiast, she's a woman's advocate, a mental health ambassador, which we're going to dig into, a girl boss you call yourself, and a wife and mother of four in your spare time. And I think it's, it's really interesting because We're going to get into detail about habits, but you know, people normally don't get into habits because they're too busy. So it'll be interesting to dig into that. And at the end of your website, you say, do BAR, feel amazing, end of story. So you're kind of a no-nonsense kind of person, which I really like. So let me get in, let me just dig in a bit because I think, you know, I really love people to get to know you.

Let's go.

You kind of introduced BAR a little bit, but for the uninitiated, what the hell is BAR? Sorry to ask this.

No, that's absolutely— well, I'm delighted. I'm happy to talk about BAR all day. It, like I said before, it is a mixture of different types of exercise which you fuse together to make. What makes barre different is that it is low impact, because as we age, as women age, uh, we lose that wonderful, wonderful hormone called oestrogen, and our joints start to ache and repetitive injuries come in. So barre takes very disciplined exercises but does it without putting the pressure through your joints. So it's all set to music. There's an element of coordination and dance that is required but can be learnt. I think it's really important to say that I've never had a ballet lesson in my life. And amongst my group of friends, I'm renowned as having like the worst sense of rhythm, you know, always being the one going to the left when everyone else is going right. But it is something that you can learn.

Yeah, it sounds like me.

I know. We'd be a fine pair on the dance floor. So everything is set to music, music, and it's really the emphasis on— I think it gets you the results that you want, but I don't emphasize the way that we look. It's more to do with the way that it makes you feel. So for me, I find the idea of working to a 21-year-old in hot pants really quite a turn-off. And we'll talk about this when we come to consistency and building habits. The idea of doing something with someone who makes you intrinsically feel bad about yourself is very unappealing. So I try to be, I try to make my classes feel like I'm in the room with you and that I am your greatest cheerleader because I believe that things are much easier to stick to if you enjoy them. And if you don't feel intimidated, you want to make things as easy as possible for yourself. And part of that is feeling good about yourself because No one comes back to things that make them feel bad about themselves.

No, I bet you're really good at it. And we're going to talk about it a bit later because one of the— you've managed to get a superpower, maybe unintentionally, I don't know. And it actually said it in the article, I think it was in The Telegraph or The Mail, one of those. It said she can see you and she can see your comments, but it feels like you're socially interactive when actually you're not live online, are you?

No, I have to pre-record all my classes.

Yeah, because you're busy, right? But you interact with people as if they're there. Yeah. How'd you do that?

I don't find that difficult because barre is a practice as opposed to you could never master barre. So with every track that I'm recording, I'll feel my posture starting to slip or, you know, it will really, really burn. And I just have a conversation in the same way that I would be talking to myself in the mirror. I'm like, oh, okay, so you are going to need to pull your shoulders back and down, you're going to need to turn your hips. Like, because I can feel my own form starting to go, so I figure if my form's starting to go, then someone who's not as experienced as me will be having the same issues. And then, you know, I like people. I, I want people to think that they would like to meet me, so I just chat to them because there's nothing to me more of a turn-off than I'm going to be very generalist here, but those kind of American instructors who talk almost like robots. You know, there's no personality or spark coming from them. It is a very automated, "Go girls!" You know, I mean, ooh, it makes me cringe. Yeah, it makes me cringe. So, I'm working on the assumption that if I feel like that, lots of other people feel like that.

But it does make, it makes you very relatable. And I've seen you in action before and people feel like they, you know, they know you really well when I guess they don't. But, but you're, you're very relatable. So let's, let's get into the topic a little bit. When I asked you to join us as a guest, and thankfully you said yes, because it was this time of year and actually went down the old, I guess, you know, then why don't we talk about exercise? And you said to me you're really keen to talk about consistency and habit building. What, why was that of interest?

Well, I think that, um, like I said, it is the kind of current buzzword in the exercise, but I think But like all these things, it's in danger of being misunderstood. There comes a point when consistency is actually counterproductive and no one really seems to be talking about that. You know, the idea that in order to be successful, you need to be consistent. Well, what if you're not feeling very well? What if you haven't slept very well the night before? What if, you know, there are so many spanners that go into the kind of rich tapestry of life. That I think with the emphasis on consistency being what it is, that if you get thrown off track, then you feel like you failed. And that's where the persistence bit comes in. The persistence is how quickly you return to your commitment. So the consistency is the habit. Everybody knows that life gets in the way. And I think with this real focus on consistency, it's dangerous. You know, you feel that if you haven't gone to the gym 4 times a week or whatever your goal is, that you've failed. And then you're really likely to get knocked off track by that fear of failure, that feeling that, well, it's not perfect, I'm done. And that's where you need the persistence. You need the acceptance that, you know, with the best will in the world, we never know what's around the corner. But the persistence is how— so the consistency, I think what I'm saying, isn't determined by perfection. It's the persistency that brings you back to it.

I think it's really interesting because normally at this time of year, the new year brings out the kind of resolution brigade, doesn't it? They start in the gym in February and retire in March. What's your experience and how do you maintain that persistence when you're in the real world as you describe? Now things happen, right? How do you maintain it?

I mean, it's quite easy for me, isn't it? Because I get paid to be persistent, which always helps.

It's a motivation.

Yeah, it is. Obviously it's Um, but I think when people set their New Year's resolutions or their goals, what they don't do is really think it through. I think people are like, right, I want to get fitter, I want to be healthier, I'm going to go to the gym 7 times a week from being a non-exerciser. And the place where you really have to start is looking for your why. What is it that is driving that goal? So in the olden days when I had actual personal training clients, we would always start with like a really in-depth visualization technique. And I did this for me actually when we would, when we would think, well, when I was thinking about the podcast, I sat down and I was like, right, I'm 44, I think. And I, my current obsession is this idea that everybody's focused on longevity, but what we're not really looking at is the quality of the length of life. So I want my life to be as long as possible, but to be in really good health for as long as possible. I'm not particularly interested in living in really bad health. I've got a slightly older dad who, you know, his health is grim and it is affecting his quality of life an awful lot. So for me, that's gonna be my, my why, that's my motivator. I want to live really well because there's no denying that the second half of my life is opening up quite quickly before me. So I think it helps when it comes to making a choice like, ah, can I really be bothered to go for that run or make a healthy meal as opposed to ringing for a takeaway? It's really handy having that very clear vision. So when you're making a choice about whether or not to do the healthy habit, you know why you're going to choose not to do it. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. And it comes up another question related to it, and maybe you can just put that in. Yeah, you're talking about the why being the motivation. I think it'd be useful to explain to people about that because if a habit is built, is it built on motivation or is it built on conditioning yourself? Or is it kind of both?

I think it's probably both. So, what I used to do is I'd think of it like a hierarchy. So, you have your main overarching goal. And it, for me, I've kind of worked the opposite of SMART goals. I think it's really nice to have quite a vague overarching goal. So, I want to live well for longer, or I want to be healthier. I want to get fitter, but you know why. I want to get fitter because my BMI is too high. My doctor's told me that I've got bad blood pressure, and in the future this is going to affect the way that I live. So you're clear on your overarching, vague-ish goal, but you know why you're setting that goal. Then, kind of the mid-tier, you'd break it down into steps and what you need to do in order to achieve this. So, Say your goal is that you want to be healthier. And I can't really think of anyone that wouldn't want that goal. I mean, it's hard to imagine saying to someone, "Would you like to be healthier?" "No, no, I'd really like to be more unhappy." They might not think it's an important thing for them to worry about, I guess, at some point, because they probably think they're okay. Absolutely not. But I think even if you weren't worried about it, you'd still instinctively say it. You know, I can't see a downside to being healthier. So within that, you want to think about what steps you need to take in order to achieve it. So you probably want to eat better, you want to move a bit more, maybe drink more water, focus on having healthy sleep patterns, manage your stress levels. Those, again, quite broad goals, but you can see the different things that feed into the overarching goal. And then this is where the consistency bit comes in. Within those goals, you need to create those actionable habits. So, if we take eating better as one of your actionable goals, you are going to say, I need to eat more protein. I need to eat a wider variety of foods. I'm gonna try not to eat whilst I'm watching TV or scrolling through my phone. Maybe I'll think about not snacking in between meals. So, You've got all these kind of sub-habits that you want to create. But what I really like about this is that every action you are taking then becomes a vote for the kind of person you want to be. So it doesn't matter. It's that it, what I'm trying to say, probably not that clearly, is that you're trying to shift away from that all or nothing mindset where you're like, right, I haven't done it well, I failed. So you're going to say an avoidance goal would be, I'm going to cut out sugar. Whereas the goals that I find better for people to set are approach goals. So I'm going to try and add in more vegetables. I'm going to try and eat more protein. You're adding things in rather than taking them away. And each time you do that, it's a win. So, you know, you might have a day where you eat more protein. But you have a chocolate bar and, you know, pudding, but you also drank lots of water. So you're confidence building. You are not saying, right, I've done something. I, you know, I failed, I've fallen off the wagon, it's all over. You know, each, each tiny micro step that you take is a win. And if you're doing some things better than you were before, you're still making progress.

Yeah, that's good. That's good advice. I mean, But one thing that's interesting, Jen, 'cause my wife does your classes and I can see her commitment to it. So I get the motivation bit and the why for getting started. The bit I'm interested to know, and for people listening I think it'd be really helpful, is how the hell do you maintain that? How do you maintain that motivation of that why?

I mean, you know, if you could bottle it, you and I, Gary, would be sailing off into the Bahamas.

I think you do bottle it, Jen, though. I think you have bottled it.

I think my main takeaway from everything I've learned over the years is that we overestimate how much can be achieved in a small amount of time. And everybody underestimates how much small changes applied, and there's that word, consistently over a longer period of time can achieve. So, for me, it's all about those little tweaks. So, if you look at Building habits. The science suggests there are lots of things that go into making successful habits. Now, you know, there will be uber athletes who apply all of these techniques, but for me, I've probably got 3 or 4 of them down pat out of the group of— I think I've got probably about 8 to talk to you about. And you just choose the ones that work for you, but You know, the science of habit building is difficult because at the moment there's a big argument going on about how long it takes to create a habit. And at the moment people are saying it's 66 days. Now, if you said to me, right, it's going to take you 66 days, I'll be like, I've got to do it every day, 66 days. I mean, why, why, why would you even start? Right? Or 21 days or 30 days. You know, everybody's different. It takes everybody a different amount of time to build a habit and it will certainly depend on the habit. And that's why having that big overarching goal is really useful, because you're moving towards it from lots of different directions, and you're making progress in incremental stages, but you're still further along than you were last week or the month before, even if you haven't taken huge giant strides.

But what you're saying though is the consistency bit, wherever the number of days is, the more, you know, the more you're consistent, the more chance it will come habit. Of it.

Yeah, very good.

If you start and stop, it doesn't necessarily work so much.

Yeah. There's a brilliant quote, which really, if I, you know, if only I'd ever said it first, consistent imperfect action beats waiting until things are perfect to take action every single time.

Love that.

You know, you do something not brilliantly, it is so much better than not doing it at all. So, if you look at successful habit building, I mean, the one that I always put at the top Because for me, it's how I run my life, basically, because, you know, things get in the way. So for me, I always try and create the path of least resistance. I try to set myself up for success. So, for instance, if you're wanting to start an exercise routine, in order to be successful, you want to make it really easy for yourself. So you get up in your workout clothes. That removes the obstacle of, oh, I'm already dressed, I've done my makeup, I, you know, I haven't got time to go home and change, whatever it is. You've ring-fenced the time in your diary. I think that's a really important thing. You make that time yours and it's blocked out. So it's like any other important meeting, unmissable event. That you've got going on. You set reminders on your phone. You— this one for me is really useful. I don't shower until I've worked out because I know I need to have a shower. Wow. And so I'm like, well, you have a ring around you. Yeah, I've got to work out before I can shower, therefore I am going to do the work. And I think something that ties in really closely to the setting yourself up for success, and this is the piece of advice that I always give Anyone who gets in contact with me saying, I really want to start, Barbara, I don't know how to start. You've gotta be honest with yourself. People who don't exercise at all and then maybe go to the gym or meet a personal trainer and they're like, right, you're gonna work out 5 times a week and on your 2 off days you're gonna do some cardio. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go, let's go, let's go. And 3 weeks in, it's just not sustainable. So I think it's really sensible to start with something you can imagine committing to forever. So be that one exercise class or two exercise classes, you know, it's small and it's achievable, and you bed that in first. Going back to that point, you're still doing more than you were doing before. So it is a win, even if it is one 10-minute stretch a week. That is still better for you than where you were before. And once you've got that bedded in, and you see the benefit of it, then you add in the next one. So you work up in increments. You know, anybody who comes to me and says, I'm starting your classes, Jen, I'm going to take all 4 classes a week and I'm going to do it every week for a year, I know that I'll see their attendance is really high. It's not that their intention is there, their attendance will be really, really high. But human nature doesn't work that all-or-nothing mentality. When you fall off the wagon, you're like, I'm gonna give up then. It's just the way that we work.

It conjures up a question for me though. So most people make, with this in mind, right? Most people make the excuse about not having enough time. I know that you're a mum of 4. I've seen you in action. I mean, I don't know how you do anything. You've got so much in your life going on. So you have an incredibly busy life. Does being busy create habits or do habits make you busy? For people that think they're too busy to do stuff.

Yeah, I mean, but I also think it's really untrue that, you know, when you see those awful kind of motivational quotes, everyone's got the same 24 hours in a day. They really don't. You know, I have got 4 kids, but I've also got a nanny. And you know, for anyone who doesn't have a nanny and is trying to fit in exercise and still has a child at home, that looks very, very different to, to me, you know. And obviously it's easy to be facetious and be like, well, if I didn't have a nanny, I wouldn't be able to work. 'cause I wouldn't, 'cause my littlest still isn't at school. One day. But I do think, I mean, I'm going slightly off topic here, but I don't think that mums prioritise themselves enough. I know that I'm pretty unbearable if I don't exercise a certain amount each week. I just know my mental health goes, I'm ratty, I'm grumpy, I'm cross with myself, I'm cross with everyone around me. And, you know, I'm lucky I've got a really supportive husband who's like, 'Please go to the gym.' Please go to the gym. You know, we all know what it is that makes us tick, and that again I think comes into the, the motivation thing and the being consistent, being able to be consistent, is find something you enjoy doing. You know, if you hate being cold, don't think that you're going to take up running in January. You— I mean, it's so obvious when you think about it.

Common sense isn't very common, apparently.

Yeah. But if you don't think about it, you're like, I must go running. It's really, it's really efficient. It's something I can do really easily, you know. And I think that's something that puts people off barre until they try it, is they're like, oh, I wouldn't enjoy that. It's, you know, set to music and it's— I, I just think I'd find, you know, I'd— no, no, I'd rather do something that I know, you know. I think in order to find things that you enjoy, you have to try lots of different things and be open to being surprised by enjoying something.

I actually enjoyed that. That was amazing. Yeah, I agreed. I've seen, though, say, from personal experience, I've seen my wife, you know, she's got into a routine, she loves it, she looks forward to it, and she won't miss it. And I think that that's why I'm trying to get underneath for people listening to understand that you've created a habit, and it's a good one. Can we just switch tracks a second? Because I know that you're massively, you know, mental health is a massively important thing to you. Could you share your thoughts on how people can tackle this through some form of physical exercise or physical activity and your linkage to the kind of mental health and some of the things you're doing? So I know you've got it on your website as a kind of a key mission of your life.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think a lot of my life has been shaped by my mental health. I, you know, was swanning along and everything was fantastic. And then I had my first child and I was hospitalized about 6 weeks— well, in fact, I know exactly, 6 weeks after he was born, with a type of postnatal depression, which about, I think it's the lucky 5% of postnatal depression gets diagnosed as this. And it was really shocking. And it took me a year to even be able to think about my baby, pretty much. The rest of the time, I was mainly just focused on the physical symptoms. I, I, I felt like someone had stuck my fingers into an electric socket and there was just this, my whole body was shaking all the time, you know? And I was really lucky. I had a very, very supportive mum and we had the financial resources to get me the help that I needed. And I was hor— I mean, I really was. I, I've got no doubt at all in my mind that I would've ended up dead. None at all. If I hadn't have got that help. And then I had my second child, lo and behold, the same thing happened again. So it turns out now I'm much more educated and I know what the problem, so-called, is. And it's happened with each subsequent child. You know, I manage it better. I am medicated throughout my pregnancies, but it has really informed who I have become. And then of course, I hit early menopause or perimenopause, and the whole cycle started up again because mine is very hormonally related for me. So, to me, the idea that there are women out there suffering in the way that I suffered without a supportive family, or the financial backup to help them is genuinely horrifying. Because with the best will in the world, and I do not mean to be contentious, but the NHS is super, super stretched. And if you need the kind of help that I needed, you needed it, I needed it then and there. It couldn't have waited 3 weeks or a month. Yeah. And one of the things that kind of led me back to being myself, and I'm obviously, I cannot replace medication, I cannot replace talking therapies. But one of the things that did lead me back to myself was exercise. And that's when I retrained as a personal trainer and became a pre- and postnatal specialist. So I spent about 8 years working with pregnant women and women in their postnatal period, motivated largely by that mental health aspect. And I think what exercise gives you is it gives you space to be yourself. You know, you're not responsible to anyone else in that time. And, you know, the endorphins undoubtedly help. You know, there's a reason that people feel great after exercise. It's because we release endorphins. Yeah. But for me specifically, barre is really the best form of exercise I've found because you have to concentrate so hard.

Yeah.

On what I'm saying and being in the music that it becomes very meditative. You are really in the present and it takes you out of your own head for that amount of time. Now, lots of people get that from yoga, from, you know, but it's just been the way that it's worked for me that this is my thing. And with all, I mean, I'm so lucky with the women who come to my classes online as they, we've got this really great community and they message me all the time and I hear more about what it does for their mental health than what it does for their physical attributes. I'd say probably by a tune of about 8 to 2. You know, it really is the thing. That's a lot. That, yeah. And considering barre does do all the kind of toning and lifting and all the things that you want, but—

But mental health is kind of risen above by the sound of it.

Well, and I think midlife is a really hard time for women., you know, getting their heads around the next phase and, you know, all the things happening to their bodies and maybe the lack of confidence as we start to age and society deeming us as unattractive. You know, it's a tough age, I think, for many women.

It is. But what stands out for me, you know, what you've told me, and thank you for sharing it, it's obviously quite a personal story, is, you know, your mission's about revolutionising the way midlife women feel about themselves, their bodies, and their life stage. And you've really kind of brought it to life. I see that, you know, personally with, say, my wife is involved in your, in your classes and really gets a lot out of it. So let's look, we've got a little bit of time left. I've got time for 2 more questions, and then I want to get to your musical taste. So if you wouldn't mind, just trying to thread it all back together, if you're looking back and reflecting on, you've seen a lot of people succeed or struggle with building these consistency and habits through, you know, through Barr, what are the key things? If you could give, you know, let's say the top 3 things that people should consider that really make the difference, what would they be? And it's a hard question, but what the hell, eh?

It would definitely be meet yourself where you're at, start small, you know, what is realistic? It would definitely be set yourself up for success, create the path of least resistance, make it as easy as possible. And then the Third thing is know that it's gonna go off track. Accept that it isn't, you are not going to be perfect, but what you want is the persistence to return to it even when it hasn't gone your way. Maybe the kids are sick, they're off school, the sickness comes through your house. You can't work for, oh, you can't work out for 4 or 5 weeks even sometimes, you know, it can get quite gritty, but just know that you're going to come back and you're gonna keep coming back every time you get knocked off track.

Yeah, that's good. They're good 3 things. Thank you for that. And, um, kind of one last question, you know, you've, you've seen a lot of people come and go, I guess, through your, you know, today obviously. But, you know, looking back at this and knowing what you know now, for people that, you know, people that are listening are thinking about either, you know, doing the bar or just doing something where it it gives them a bit of purpose and consistency for whatever their goals are. It's a bit of a sort of a leading question, but is it really worth the effort? Genuinely, because you've seen people, all sorts of people, right?

Yeah, I have. And you know, it isn't for everybody, but astonishingly— I can't understand that at all. But you know, I think that, Gary, is kind of how we were talking about that big overarching goal Is it really worth it? You know, of course it is, because we all want to live as well as we can for as long as we can. And there's no way that anybody can deny the healthier you are, the more of a chance you stand of living well for longer.

Yeah. And how, and with that in mind, because you know it's good for people, again, it doesn't matter if it's bar or something else, it doesn't matter, but the same principle. How do you get people to that place where they get to really understand that, that they're missing out by not doing something like that? I mean, everyone has their different goals and things they're focused on.

Of course.

And it may be bar, it may not be bar, but how do you, how do you get the message across, you know, to a friend or to someone that you think, you know, they're missing out?

I mean, I think it's easier once they're, once they're in and that habit is ingrained enough that they feel it when they don't do it. Then it's a very easy argument to have, you know, then it's, do you feel better afterwards? Every single time, without a shadow of a doubt. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Oh, okay. And, and that's what always, if I'm really tired or, you know, grumpy or whatever, I'm like, I know I'm going to feel better. So that, that works once you've got the habit. Converting people who hate exercise is always going to be that uphill struggle. And that's where I say, right, even if you just do 10 minutes, it's 10 minutes more than you were doing last week. So let's take that 10 minutes. And then, you know, and it might take 6 months to build something that looks like an exercise plan, you know, where they might go 3 times a week, which lots of people regard that as, you know, I mean, it's all right, isn't it? But to that particular person who's never exercised before, that is a massive, huge achievement and needs to be celebrated as such. So meeting yourself where you're at.

Brilliant. Such good advice. So listen, we've come to the end of time. I'm just going to ask you in a second about your musical taste, but, but before we do, I'd like to thank you so much. You're truly inspirational. I've seen you in action. You have an amazing charisma about you. You've managed to connect to people in a way that People have almost feel they have a personal relationship and they've never met you. So your interaction online is incredible. It's amazing. And I can say that personally, my wife has, you know, has been through all the lockdown classes and still a big fan and still working hard. So thank you so much for joining us on this episode. Hopefully people have got a few tips that make the difference in their lives and your focus is incredible. So let's move to your musical taste as we finish off today. We, for some reason, decided to get our guests to share maybe some inspirational music, which again is a big thing in your life, I know, and get a couple of tracks. And we've got a Spotify playlist called The Company Doctor Playlist on—

I mean, strangely, on Spotify. My music taste is wide and varied.

Well, let me just tell you that a few episodes ago, we got someone recommended the Ukrainian national anthem for obvious reasons. So we've got a whole bunch of stuff. And it doesn't matter how varied it is, but let us have it.

Okay, well, I went with two barre tunes. The first one is by Shanice, and it's called I Love Your Smile, because that really was the first track that I did. Someone else, an absolute goddess called Colleen Freeze, she had choreographed it, and it was the first track that I learned that I just thought, wow, this is the way forward, this is what I love. And then The second track is a Whitney Houston, I Wanna Dance with Somebody, for all of the reasons, and it's my favorite warm-up track of all time.

Love it, love it. I thought you were going to say, um, what did you— did a class, it was all, um, Beyoncé. I thought you're gonna go Beyoncé.

Beyoncé. I did a few themed classes.

Yeah, I thought you're gonna say Beyoncé, but Whitney Houston, love it. Thank you so much, Jen. That was really good, and I think you're really going to help a lot of people. So thanks for being with us.

I've loved it.

Looking forward to, uh, to hearing the episode, and thanks again.

Absolute pleasure. Thanks, Gary, very much.

A huge thank you to Jen for joining us on this episode. To find out more about Jen and her company Meet You at the Bar, visit meetyouatthebar.com or look her up on Instagram on @meetyouatthebar. Thanks to you all for listening, and we'll see you next time.