The Personal Energy Epidemic with Optimum Living’s Managing Director, Colette Heneghan #57

After all, all art is experience. Hello and a very warm welcome to The Company Doctor, where today Gary is talking to Colette Heneghan, author, nutritionist, speaker, and founder of well-being consultancy Optimum Living. Together they discuss the personal energy epidemic and the ways in which, during these times of international low energy levels, you can be brilliant without the burnout. Visit thecompanydoctor.com for show notes, videos, and extras from this episode. Episode, and then go to Amazon where Colette's latest book, How to Have the Energy: Your 9-Point Plan to Eating Smarter, Improving Focus, and Feeding Your Potential, is out now with 50% off. Gary, Colette, over to you.

Say the analogy of— say, hey Colette, welcome to The Company Doctor, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, thank you for inviting me.

Oh, I'm so pleased you're on. I thought I'd start with a— I was trying to be more energetic than I normally am because it's called The Personal Energy Epidemic. So I thought I better not be part of it, hence my overly energetic introduction.

What do you think?

Pretty good. I think we can always do better with energy.

Could do better. Got it, got it. Okay, I knew this was coming. Uh, the subtext is how to be brilliant without the burnout, so I'm looking forward to that. Colette, let's get started. Um, yeah, generally pleased to have you on. The topic is The Personal Energy Epidemic, which we're really excited to dig into. But maybe as we kick it off, you can let us know who you are and tell us briefly about yourself and what you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I am the founder of a well-being consultancy called Optimum Living. I set this up over a decade ago now, and I work within companies to help them shape their employee well-being strategy and also help deliver some of that content as well. And I am a nutritionist, I'm a herbalist, I'm a naturopath, I'm a yoga teacher, lots of different things. Yeah, I'm also an author.

In your spare time, you're also—

what did you say? I'm also an author.

So, oh yeah, we're going to come to that. I know this, this is good, very, very good. Before we do dig into the present, because obviously we're going to spend most of our time talking about that, can we look in the past a bit? What did you used to do and how did you get into doing what you're doing?

Yeah, it's a good one actually, thanks Gary, as it really explains why I do what I do, as I didn't start out like this. I didn't start out as this nutritionist and yoga practitioner. And, you know, working in wellbeing. In fact, I was very much a client of that process, shall we say. And I did my first degree in IT and went into the telecom sector and worked in global sales and management for a number of years. And I was one of those people, one of the many people in fact, that experienced some degree of burnout within my career. And that wasn't because I didn't like my job. I actually really loved my job. And I was incredibly ambitious and dedicated and loyal to, to my team. I worked all over the world, so travel was a really important thing to me, meeting different people, really like curious nature. So it was a great role, it was a great company I was working within. It's just I wasn't taking care of myself. So I had lots of outputs and less inputs into the body, you know, taking care of you. And I went on lots of different courses within my career that was you know, trying to help my performance and guide my output and drive sales and these kind of things. But in none of these sessions did I ever get any insights on how to take care of myself and how to actually, you know, feed myself properly and why rest is important. And these kind of factors are the things that now I know are the integral points to how, how we live really, and how we manage to do what we do.

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, that's what the whole episode's about, and it's not, it's not obvious actually before we got introduced to each other. Can I ask you a question before, just to line things up a little bit? Please. What the hell is personal energy and why does it matter?

Well, energy is essentially the symptom of our health, and health is so much more than the absence of disease. You know, it's not just not being ill, it's this vibrancy and vitality and brilliance, which, you know, is that, that word that we use in here. And so many people have settled and normalized not feeling like that day to day. And I really want to challenge that, that status quo and that normalization and say we can all feel better. Because when you have lower energy states, you know, so not feeling that vibrancy and that brilliance, the longer they go on for, the more likely they're going to kind of develop into something that's some kind of disease, you know, whether that be chronic disease of some sort or being unwell or burnout that's a little bit more vague in terms of what the outputs are of that, but, you know, exhaustion. And all of these things can be picked up so much earlier by just not accepting and, you know, just not allowing that low energy state to be part of who you are. The reason that I talk about energy so much is because I go into lots of very large organizations and do lots of observations as well as questionnaires. And tens of thousands of people have filled in my company questionnaire over the years, and there's literally only a handful, like I can count them on one hand, that have actually said that their energy is at 10 out of 10. And obviously this is just like a self-measure. Yeah. But even when you go one down, it's still only a few dozen when you're thinking about tens of thousands of people that have completed this. And I think that just shows that we've got so much in that dial to shift on personal energy. And if it's like a key symptom of our internal health, our energy, you know, and how we feel, then there's so much work we can do.

Well, it's really interesting. Don't give us any more yet because I want to, I want to ask you some more questions before you give us all the answers. But it is really interesting. And then I kind of, the second thing was on my mind because of that heading, I suppose, is what is this epidemic? I mean, we've been in one, but what, are we even in a pandemic? What is the epidemic? Oh, that is, uh, personal energy.

Well, exactly that, I guess. With, um, I kind of shot ahead maybe with the answer a little bit, is that it's so apparent in so many different groups across industries, that it's been normalized that we just are not feeling brilliant every day and not feeling vibrant, that it's just okay to be tired all the time, that when you wake up in the morning, the alarm clock is alarming and it doesn't start your day off in a, in a way in which you're like, wow, what is it, you know, I'm ready for it kind of thing. And I know this myself because I'm my own personal case study, because that's how I felt. And I was still, you know, a young woman, and the alarm clock would go off and I would me, you know, at a personal level, are you kidding me, is that the time already, you know, I need another hour's sleep. And, and as soon as I started kind of verbalizing this to other people, so many people felt the same. So it's this very personal energy, and it's not always something that is spoken about because, you know, we live in an, um, an environment where we want to tell people the good stuff. And especially at work, you don't want to tell people that you're feeling a little bit under the weather or that you're tired, um, necessarily. And so it's really like getting people to check in with themselves to ourselves and, and be truthful and what's not serving you. And, you know, being able to start to identify some of these things.

And Colette, do you think it has changed since— I mean, it's a bit of an obvious question, I suppose, but has it changed since the pandemic, or was it always there before? And it's just— has it been affected at all by the pandemic, or is it the same?

Massively and measurably. Yeah, yeah. I mean, burnout rates have increased by about 10%, and we're already, you know, in the UK, up about 70%. So it was huge. It had a huge impact. And there's lots of different burnout rates country by country, but we know that at least across the world it's about 52%. So these factors, this exhaustion, this energy epidemic is global and affecting so many of the people around us. You know, if you're in a team of 10, potentially half of them are experiencing some of these things.

I do, I do see that. And, and it's definitely— you've talked a lot more about now, like on TV, you know, never used to got mentioned, but now people are talking about things in mental health as well. And it kind of culminated itself. You ended up writing a book, which I can see behind you. Just to be compliant, as you see, I also have. Thank you for sending me and have read. Pleasure. Digested, if that's the right word to use.

It is.

I've got a double question for you, Colette, if you're ready for it.

Yeah.

What made you write the book? And, you know, in your book you talk about the potential of feeding your potential. I think that's the word you use, feeding your potential. Tell us why you wrote the book, and in simplistic terms, what do you mean by feeding your potential?

Yes. So why I wrote it is because when I felt like in that low energy state and I looked to, you know, various sources for information, I just felt like none of the books were for me. Like, I was really ambitious, career-conscious individual. And when I looked at these books, they were for people that had all this time for food prep. It was usually like a beautiful 20-something woman with a spiralizer on the front or, you know, like coffee table books. And there wasn't one that spoke to me. And I kind of thought I was like a business person. Essentially, you know, I wanted something that was summarized, realistic, relevant, all of those things. So I wrote the book as, you know, for, for people that kind of didn't necessarily see themselves as this foodie and really interested in nutrition, and actually someone that wanted to be able to access that energy levels again and to reassess their lives with realistic, practical stuff. So that's why the book was written. Obviously, I have a co-author, um, Graham, who was the original Productivity Ninja. He wrote that book, How to Be a Productivity Ninja.

And by the way, just to say, to interrupt you, I'm a massive fan of Graham. I've read his book many times, and as soon as I found out you co-authored it, I was even more excited about having you on the podcast because, yeah, he's a bit of my hero, to be honest.

Oh, that's wonderful to know. Yeah, he's one of mine too. He's a great, great guy. And, you know, he's founded a global organization of ninjas that go to, you know, within organizations organisations to help them with their productivity approaches, and individuals too, and done incredible courses with fabulous outcomes. The original Productivity Ninja was lacking in energy, and he said, "What is it that I'm doing wrong?" The first time he came to me was, we were friends already, just met a few times, and he said, "Colette, I think I need your help. Is there a pill I can take so I can skip lunch?" and all this kind of stuff. I was like, "No, we need to just unravel this a little bit and see what's going on." When I simplified it for him, because I just used my language, which was, I guess, that simplified version, and but also stuff that makes sense, because business people are pretty, you know, especially in sales, you have to be quite savvy. You have to— we want things in summaries. You want something that's usable. And it was like that ultimately, you know. So I just made things usable, and he was like, I cannot believe how much better I feel in just a matter of weeks. And then months went by, and he was like, I'm never going back. We have, you know, this— I'm never going to compromise again for that. What I used to do.

And is that what you mean by feeding your potential? Yeah, going on. What else is going on?

So that, that's it, you know. It's ultimately like, we don't realize what we're missing out on when you've got these kind of lower, more exhausted, tired all the time kind of states. So your potential can never be fully met if you're not actually able— and then feeding, literally feeding yourself pretty good food.

Why not? Like a Ferrari with a wheel clamp That's right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Who'd have thought? Yeah. And how did you, how did you reach your conclusions? Clearly your experiences collided and you had a bit of a eureka moment, but how did you reach the conclusions? And is there a way to measure that kind of eureka moment?

Eureka moment in terms of what, what the, the formula for the book or, um, the formula for the individual output of the, the method that gives you the energy so that you, it works?

How, you know, how do you know How do you measure that it works apart from feeling slightly better?

Well, obviously from an individual basis, you can do like self-reported outcomes and things like that. But what we have on a bigger scale, you know, is that we've had humans living differently than they do now for thousands of years and they live better. So, you know, the foundation of a lot of the advice that we have in there is we're not trying to reinvent the wheel of human nature and human sustainability, but we're just bringing the foundations back. And making them more applicable in our busy, you know, always-on connected lives ultimately. And it's so— it's just making them really accessible.

And is there something else going on in the mix? So for example, what's the impact of stress on the equation, and what can you do to combat that?

So stress is a big aspect of our— and how, you know, how we feel day to day. Obviously it can zap our energy, or it can actually be part and parcel of creating more energy. And I guess that's why stress generally gets a bad rap. However, it is part of the human condition, and we need some of it to have our get-up-and-go and the fire in our bellies. And it's the nature of stress when it starts to become detrimental, and most of us will be able to tell you when that— there is a tipping point there in terms of, you know, when it starts to, to actually harm us rather than be part of our lives. And, and obviously stress has a big drain on all of our our mental, emotional, physical resources. So, if that balance isn't right, then ultimately you're going to be feeling out of kilter. And that energy balance, it's a little bit like a bank balance. You have to be putting deposits in. Um, if you're— all you're doing is drawing stuff out, even when the going's good, you still have to put the balance in. You know, you still have to be paying money into the account because there's still going to be drawing. And then there's going to be a time when you may be drawing more out than you can put in. So it's ultimately, you know, you need to be keeping that going each day. And that's what I think about managing stress. It needs to be a daily thing. It can't be the annual holiday.

You're talking about holidays. You reminded me, Colette, when my kids call me Airport Gary, because I'm the calmest guy in the world until I go to the airport and then I get all stressed.

Brilliant.

Airport Gary, here he comes. So maybe I need to, maybe I do need to take the pill that does solve that. And where did someone who's listening, where does someone start to put this into into practice, apart from buying the book, obviously. But where do we start?

Well, I always say start small and just start. Like, don't wait till you've got the right equipment, you know. I'm waiting till I can buy a Fitbit, or, you know, I need a, you know, a super blender for my kitchen, or something like that. Just, just start today. And like, some really easy places to start is the time we're recording this, we've had lunch, right? So how many colours did you have in lunch? Could you add some more colourful food?

I knew you were going to ask me this. Oh, you didn't ask me this, sorry.

I was getting worried you were going to test me because I did read the I'm definitely going to ask you now. I'm definitely going to ask you, how many colours did you have at lunch?

Just a beige. I'm sorry, it was a bit beige.

Oh my goodness. Exactly this, right? So thank you for being honest, Gary. And even today, when we hear this kind of eat the rainbow a lot these days, which essentially is just eat more, you know, a bigger range of plant foods. It's a basic thing that sounds like it doesn't have much of an outcome if you keep doing it. But believe me, the consistency of this has such broad health outcomes. It's unbelievable what it can do to you. It can trans— you know, it transforms health. And if you could just do one thing as a result of this podcast, which is just add more color, then straight away your energy is going to be affected over time. And, you know, it's like I sometimes find that if you ask the converse kind of question about this, you know, how many people want to age quicker? Do you want to age quicker than you have to, Gary?

I try and slow it down as much as I can, Colette, to be honest.

Exactly. Me too. Me too. I mean, look at us. We buy all these creams and books about it and watch documentaries and all this kind of stuff. Yet one of the number one things we can do to, you know, help the aging process and slow it down is to eat colorful food. So every day when we're choosing not to eat colorful food, we're saying, I don't mind aging quicker than I have to.

Yeah, I must admit I did like— again, in your book, it's nice and clearly laid out and you do it by mealtime as well, which I think is really helpful. If you knew what you know now, going back, you used to be a global account manager in a telco.

That's right.

We shan't mention. What would you have done differently to benefit your, you know, in your career days of being a global account manager, knowing what you know?

Well, I would just, I mean, I created a life that's not too dissimilar to being a global account manager. I have global accounts now, as you know, in the job that I'm in. So the job— I can just tell you what I'm doing now really, which is, you know, you set a tone for your day in terms of how you get up in the morning. I always get some light in the morning, um, rather than it just be the whole day behind a screen or traveling to places and that kind of thing. So I used to do a lot of international travel. I have some hydration first thing, not a coffee. Simple things, right? Real simple bedrock stuff that people just don't do. But they— these are the guys that are like the, the majors in our life, not the minors of, you know, should I buy this supplement because it can do, you know, it's from the middle of the Amazon, it can do X, Y, and Z. These are the majors, the cornerstones of what you can do every day. So just how I start my day is different. I always, always eat lunch and I eat it in a way that I'm not rushed and not in front of a screen, not scrolling on my phone.

It's funny you say that cuz I, I read that chapter just before I had lunch. I went and sat in the garden and had it before I spoke to you. So thank you for that. Yeah, but what do you think? People get confused though, isn't it? There's those of fads, there's those of books, it's on TV all the time. Do you think people are confused by what to do and where to start?

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think some of the reason that we have such a challenge within well-being is because of the, the sources of information are so varied and so vast and all over, you know. They're in the newspaper, they're in magazines, a lot of social media. Um, from TV, and there's different viewpoints of what you should and shouldn't do. And, but what I try and stray away from exactly, especially with larger groups, you know, so like people that would listen to the podcast, is like real specifics, you know, so you should take magnesium citrate, um, versus glycinate because of this, that, and the other, you know, it's not like that. It's, it's the majors that are important, you know, those major cornerstones and pillars of our lives, how we wake in the morning, what, what are the first things that we do? My first thing is to be checking my BlackBerry. See, I'm now showing my age, you know, when I was a Blackberry guy. Don't answer that. Absolutely, yeah, you know. So is that a fruit? Yes, it's a fruit, right? Just looking at a BlackBerry first thing before you get started.

Yeah. Is there— I can't help but ask, and I'm sure you've got an answer to this— is there anything else at play? For example, where does motivation play in this? And I mean on two sides. There's obviously motivation to do the things that you recommend in your book and the way you eat and healthily. But there's also the motivation that gives you energy. Where does that play in this little puzzle?

Well, those are two, you know, intrinsically linked ultimately. And I think most people like the idea that they're being, you know, that they can improve their health. Most people want to do that. And the only thing that's perhaps stopping them from making some changes is they don't know where to start and it's confusing. And this stuff literally feeds itself, pardon the pun. Like, I know I'm talking about food too, but it literally does. Because just like Graham in his transformation of the way that he viewed food, he's not going to compromise, he's not going to go back. And that's exactly how I feel now. So looking at my former self as a global account manager that maybe had a coffee for breakfast, some biscuits in a meeting for lunch, you know, maybe at best I had a sandwich in front of my laptop and then got home late and just, you know, threw something together with no thought. And once you change one of those dynamics, it tends to, you know, the motivation tends to build from there. 'Cause once you, it's like a domino effect. And it also has, it has a really beautiful way of, of, uh, actually rippling out around you as well. So just like your wife, you were saying, maybe I recruit her a little bit more. So the next tomorrow, there's no longer a beige lunch.

She's awesome. We don't have beige lunch normally. It was me, she wasn't here. But here's a question for you, because, you know, I think you're clearly on to something, which I think is great. But you talked about proactive attention, and the reason I'm asking is when I read your book, it wasn't judgy or getting people to set goals or any of the normal stuff that you expect to see. It was more found— I don't know if it was foundational is the right word. It felt more fundamental than that. Well, so what is your approach and what does proactive attention mean? Because I read about that in your book as well.

Yeah, so proactive attention is our most finite and most valuable resource, and we would definitely argue that in anything that you want to do, you know, because when you've fully got your attention in it, into something, and you're really achieving and firing it off all, you know, on all cylinders, and you'll probably know that, what that feeling feels like, then you can achieve so much. You can come up with so many ideas and complete lots of things that you'd started and not been able to do. And that's what proactive attention is ultimately. It's just having that depth and that, that real expanse of your mind, being able to, to tap into that. What is the opposite of proactive attention? Well, it's probably like like, you know, having a task that you've got to do all day, and it just grows to the size of the hours that you've allocated to do it. And then you get near the end of, you know, those 5 hours that you've allocated, and you've still not started because you procrastinated for one reason or another. And then now it's just too big a job to finish today, and you do it tomorrow. So that's kind of like the opposite, you know, in some ways, for that. And energy is really what dictates the output. It's not the hours you've spent on it. And I think we're realizing that now with flexible working and things, that we have such more flexible lifestyles that people are enabled to, you know, basically in some cases shorten their working day. Most people are lengthening it, unfortunately, but, you know, you can, you can compress it. And I know that you did a great podcast on the 4-day week. So, you have that focus, you can achieve so, so much more. So, it's the energy, not the hours that dictate the output.

Yeah, I like that because it means you're trying to get match fit. So when you're going to do something, you've got everything focused on, you've got the energy to do it and you do it well. I guess that's what you mean, which makes a lot of sense. And Claire, what do you think is next? Do you think that there's— I don't mean writing books or anything, but just on the topic itself, like if I got into your regime and I'm kind of, you know, more advanced in it, what's next? Do you think there's a follow-on or more of advanced activity that would make me even more a higher performer? More or higher on my game?

Yeah. So firstly, I just wanna just go back to that word regime. It's definitely not a regime, right? This, so as you know with the book, it's very much like these principles of living that, um, you know, once you have these as your foundation, uh, which I really like as a term foundation, then they allow you to do so much more. You have so much zest and springiness to do other things. Then if you then want to become, I don't know, a triathlete, Gary, Perhaps that's something you'd like to do.

It's a long walk, but I like the idea.

Yeah.

You know, so you've just, you've put some things into place, but then more specifically, you as an individual need some more adaptations to get you that extra 1% or 2%, because now you're finishing in the top 3 and you wanna be the first one. Well, then there's, of course, there's more things that could be really personalized for you, but these foundational things will take you 90% of the way. And what I'm finding is that 90% of people aren't actually doing the foundational things.

And is it the same as when you're trying to swim the Channel? If you only swim 90%, you drown? Or is 90% a good thing?

No, absolutely it's a good thing. It's not like swimming the Channel in any way, shape, or form because we are so complex and we can't even describe the human form in such a simple way. But, you know, you used like the car having a wheel clamp on at the start. I see it as like just putting in the wrong fuel. If you've got a diesel car car and you put petrol fuel in, you might get it started and go down the road, but it's going to start choking up. Oh, I've done it. Chugging along, right?

A lot of money.

Costs a lot of money. And that analogy of costing a lot of money is also the same with our health, you know. So, yeah, so when we're not investing, when we're putting the wrong fuel in consistently, we're only going to go so far. We'll still get up in the morning, we'll still make it to work, we'll still, you know, be at those social events, but are we taking our whole full energized self? Perhaps not. And just knowing that you can, and that there's a window there with some simple changes, with not massive investments, you know, because if kind of cost is sometimes for health, people say, oh, I just can't afford all this stuff, you know, a gym membership and this and that and the other. And a lot of this stuff is not a cost, you know, it's not a cost thing, it's just more of a getting it right thing.

But how do you, uh, and I'm going to use this term carefully, sell people on the idea? Because a lot of people that are into things that make you better tend to make it more, a bit more like religion. And sometimes that's repelling, because if you, every time you meet someone, you're sharing your wisdom with them, sometimes it could be off-putting. How do you— you're not like that, and I could tell in your writing. I don't know you well, but I can tell in your writing. How do you make it more foundational, as you would call it, rather than more like religion?

I think it's a case like, obviously there are some personality types that like the all or nothing So want it to be like really immersive. And what I know is that, that, you know, it's very difficult to keep up and then apply to different scenarios, you know? So what happens when you go to a dinner party or what happens when you go on holiday and what happens when, you know, you just can't do all those things. It's really, really complicated. It doesn't happen. And then people really fall off. I guess for me, it's just all about kind of speaking the language of that person, you know, if you ask on a one-to-one level, but just doing it from a human perspective ultimately. So these are just human outputs, you know, how you feel when you wake up, um, what's your mood like in the afternoon, did you sleep well last night, you know, and just making it very relatable on a human level.

Yeah, that came across. As I said, it's more foundational because it made sense. It made me just nod as I was reading, thinking, well, that makes sense. Makes sense. Why wouldn't I do that? You got me.

Oh good, I'm so pleased.

Yeah, it's good. And who's— do you have a role model, someone that's really nailed it?

Apart from yourself, of course. I have like a group of them, like, you know, different people that are—

you're a groupie.

I'm a groupie. Yeah, yeah. I follow a number of different people. Like, I'm a big fan of this guy called, um, Dan Buettner. I don't know if you've come across him. He, um, wrote the book Blue Zones, so he would— he brought this to life, uh, which was around longevity. So there's like these certain zones in the world where people live the longest and they're free of disease as well. So they're not just living to 100 and completely crippled or anything like that. They're actually still contributing to society, still part of society and still well. And what Dan did was really extrapolate the common denominators of these societies that are not linked by religion or geographics or language, but actually just by the things that they do every day.. And I guess that's what has inspired me a great deal. So Dan definitely is one of them, you know, with the Blue Zones, he's— and what he, he brought to life for a lot of people.

Worth digging into. Everyone should be digging into Dan, so to speak. Okay, I've got a couple of questions and then we're going to get to your musical taste. If you could give 3 takeaways and only 3 for someone that wanted to support their personal energy, what would they be?

So the first one is knowing that you have the power to change it. And the first way is just to actually check in with how you actually feel. And so one of the first principles in the book of the, the 9-point High Energy Plan is choose how you want to feel. You get to choose how good you want to be, how good you want to feel that day, how brilliant. And as soon as you start asking yourself a question like that, your choices are then dictated. So this then digs into your motivation and those kind of things. So it really is like, you know, how good do you want to feel? What's going to feed that versus, you know, potentially get in your way. And so just knowing that you have the power to change it, you get to choose. Number 2 would be, and I was kind of saying it a little bit as I was going through, is like the foundational stuff is important, you know. So you eat good food if you have good food in. Make it easy for yourself, um, by buying good food, you know, less things with barcodes, more things with, you know, one ingredients, really, really simple stuff. But then when that's in your house, you tend to create meals versus, um, you know, outsource it to somebody else. It's not going to feed you as well as you would. Natural light is a big one of that, you know, this major thing of— I recently, I was with, um, a group of people after a keynote, and they mentioned the fact that this one person hadn't been outside for 3 days, you know, often during the week. And daylight is like so important to our rest everything, every function within our body, how we're going to sleep that night. And so having some of those real major things, so rest, prioritise sleep, eating well, those kind of things, get those right, those fundamentals. And then I guess the third one would be it has to be a nutritionist as well. It has to be the rainbow, right? So if you're eating—

knew it was coming—

a seasonal rainbow, then then you're really on your way there. Yeah, you really are. And that gets you the range of foods. It answers loads of problems. The range of food, which is what your gut microbiome wants. It gets you the fiber, which is what your gut wants as well. It gets you tapped into the environment. It's seasonal, so it's sustainable. You know, seasonal rainbow is the third one.

Love it. And it's a great third and final tip for us to take away. So listen, Colette, we're going to get to your musical taste, but before we do, thank Thank you so much for coming on. You've shown your own personal energy and you've given us some routes to cure the epidemic. I think it's been really helpful. The book is amazing. People, I recommend they get hold of it. Quickly, to your musical taste, we have a company doctor playlist on Spotify, inspirational songs, things that you like that sort of trigger things in your life. Give us a couple of tracks from the collect library.

Okay, so always tricky to put it down to two, but I don't know how much music from Manchester you have on that playlist just yet. So being a Mancunian, I'd go for New Order, um, Blue Monday. That tune as it starts, you know, definitely is one that's really energizing and reminds me of lots of good times.

Fantastic.

Any others? I would then say, for my sister and all of the dance floors that she spun me around on, um, I would go for Spinning Around by Kylie Minogue. So you gotta have a bit of Kylie in there.

I love that. And it sounds like there's story for another time. But thank you so much for taking the time with us. It's been really energizing. I really appreciate it. And hopefully again, see you again soon.

Hope so.

Thanks, Gary.

Cheers. A massive thanks to Colette Heneghan for joining us today. And a reminder to you all that Colette's book, How to Have the Energy, is out now with 50% off from Amazon. Thanks for listening and do join us again next Next time.