The Route To Work: The Company Doctor LIVE PART 2 at London Academy of Excellence #66

After all, all art is experience.

Hello and welcome back to The Company Doctor and to part 2 of our live miniseries held at the fabulous London Academy of Excellence in Stratford. If you haven't listened to part 1, shame on you. But to summarize, our fearless student working groups posed some excellent questions to our expert panel all about what the future of work looks like and where they might fit within that landscape. In this episode, those same inquisitive working working groups probe the panel about how to differentiate themselves from their peers, clever interview techniques, networking, and much, much more. This is The Route to Work Part 2. Gary Gamp, expert panel, students of the London Academy of Excellence, it's over to you.

Let me just quickly explain The Route to Work. So obviously this whole podcast is called The Route to Work, but the principle is once you understand where the world is going in the market What do I need to do to get prepared? You know, my CV, getting myself organized. What, how do I differentiate? What are the, you know, what are the things I need to think about? It's competitive out there. So that's where, where this is going. So what is the route to work? And does, does it mean I have to follow a very stable route that everyone else has told me in the past? Or is there kind of a zigzag, a different way of getting there?

Go on, George. No, I think the answer is there is no stable route, there is no sort of set thing, is there? You know, we're going to explore that now, but there's no conventional route through. And I think, you know, as we've heard, everyone's got their own, their own path. I wonder if you can show me, show of hands, how many of you started working on things like CVs or started thinking about how to differentiate yourselves from, from your peers? And we're looking at about 70% maybe of people, which is, which is really encouraging. It's great. And hopefully we're going to get some tips now on how you can.

We are.

How you can develop that.

So get into it.

Question 1: Um, what are some unique ways to prepare for interviews that aren't very common since a lot of the information online is very generic?

Great question. So Lauren, do you want to go first? Oh wow, you're getting brave now.

So one thing that I do is basically don't be afraid to be a bit of a stalker. So I will try and find out as much as I can about not only the company, but if you can find out the name of the person that you're going to be in a room with, and you can find out as much as you can about that person. And a lot of people are scared to go on LinkedIn because it's going to tell them that you went on their profile, but that's a good thing. That shows that you're researching and that you're interested and that you care. So, you know, I will literally try and find someone's Instagram and find out things about them, which may be going a bit too far, but I just like to be able to have something where I can find a common ground and bring up, oh, you might have even gone to the same university by the time you get to applying for a job, and you can have that common ground. And it's just something to either have a common ground with, bring up a talking point, even just break the ice so that everyone just relaxes.

Just to carry on from that, if you know who you're in the room with, you're less likely to be scared and you're more prepared and you know what you want to talk about. The other thing about LinkedIn is that once you've clicked on their profile, it comes up that obviously you've viewed their profile. It'll notify them that you've viewed their profile, then they will get curious and look at you, and then they'll remember that. And so when you're in your interview, they'll remember who you are and your actual person rather than just a figure or another sheet of paper for them to look at.

So yeah, great things to advise, right? I think it comes down to a few things. For me, it's, it's really the preparation. So there's a lot of information available. It's what you do with that to try and stand out from the crowd. So being prepared, think about what they do, think about what they're talking about, either at a business level or them personally, because you're just trying to look a bit different to everybody else. And that really starts even before the interview, right? So you've got to think about ways to how you differentiate yourself And a lot comes down to use the information that's available, making sure you're well prepared. And to add to the comments already, if you look at them, then they look back at your LinkedIn profile, what do they see? You know, so a little bit, a little bit of effort goes a long way at this level. So think about if you're doing any outside work, your connections, people that you might be able to link in with. It starts to create an image of what they're looking to see and when they meet you. So again, a little bit effort goes a long way, and that's all about being prepared to do that. And the first impressions you make, as your headmaster spoke about earlier on, right, it does go a long way.

Thank you, Neil. I just want to add one more thing, and then we're going to go to the next question. So Neil talked about differentiation. This is probably the most important thing. You're all super smart, and so is everyone else, so you've got to differentiate. One of the reasons we're doing this podcast is we want you to have something to talk about. So when you go to an interview, you can say you were part of this. The team here that have spent many weeks on the research are going to be credited on this podcast. When they go to an interview, they've got something to talk about. When I was, uh, 15, 16, I ran a charity for cancer research, and through those endeavors we arranged a race around London and loads of different events. When I went to my first interview, I could talk about that. Are you part of a charity? Are there hobbies that you could do that could be interesting? Are you coaching someone or helping someone else? Anything you can do apart from getting a job as an intern will make a massive difference to you differentiating yourself. Okay, question number 2, please.

So my question is, what is your advice to young people who find themselves stuck at an early career place they don't want to be at?

Right, nice, very nice question. Dave up.

I think the honest answer is to speak up. I know it's easy for me to say that, so I hear a lot more experience than you guys, but Generally, if you've got a decent leader, decent manager, you know, they will listen to you. But I think when I say speak up, I mean do it in the right way. So don't go with problems, go with solutions. I'm sure you've all heard that statement, but actually go prepared of, you know, why you feel stuck and then go with the answer of how you could become unstuck and kind of the journey that we— and the development plan you'd like to go on. I've got a recent story of my son, actually. He's, he's, um, stuck in a career. He feels stuck in a career at the minute. He's actually ringing me now because he's actually gone and done that. He's had the conversation, uh, and it's gone up higher, and now they've come back down and said, right, Oliver, we don't want you to leave. We will create a development plan for you and a journey that he can see there's a career path. So speak up.

Does that answer your question? Brilliant. Question number 2?

Number 3.

Number 3. By the way, maths, not good for me. You can tell that, right?

Are degree apprenticeships the best way to get ahead in your early career, and where can we actually find them?

Nice, that's a really good question. Is, is anyone interested in degree apprenticeships to find out more about them? Put your hand up in the air if you are. Very good. Uh, really important. Um, I'm going to pass you to Neil because Neil, as a CEO of the company he works for that I work with, has taken the leap of faith with degree apprentices. So tell us now about it.

Yeah, good. I think it's a path that's open to everybody, right? So in my business, we took on some degree apprentices and we did in conjunction with Henley Business College. So basically doing a business management degree. So we took them through an assessment process and selected 4 young people. They are straight out of college. It's fair to say they've all left college with some pretty good exam results, and they come into our business. And what does it look like for them? They'll get on-the-job training in our business, and they are actually already— they've been with us since October. They start the degree in January, have just started. They're already being productive and they're learning on accelerated of what life is like in the workplace. The balance for them is they then go to their university and they spend 20% of their time on campus or with each other working on assignments. So they're going through the same degree process, and they'll end up leaving their 3-year degree with a good degree from, from Henley Business College, which is in the industry recognized as a good college to go through. But they'll leave for having 3 years more work experience than people are then competing with for future jobs. Now, my job as a CEO is to try and keep them in our business, but my job is predicated by— I want to make them better and have skills for the next job, and then maybe with my company or maybe somewhere else. And I wish them well with that because it's down to me to keep challenging them, keep developing them at the business I work in. But at some point I recognize they'll move on to another business, right? And they go, having been 3 years with us or maybe more, but they go to the market at that age where they're competing with other university graduates. They've actually got 3 years work experience under their belt of what life is really like, and they'll help them figure out what the next kind of job or career may look like for them. So I think it's a good path. I think it is. They come out without any debt, which is part of it, right? So that helps them. But the 4 we've got are absolutely super smart. They're embracing what they're doing. They're curious to learn. They're adapting to change. They're grabbing things to do and they're great fun to have around the office. And so it's changed the culture of our business in a really good way. So I think degree apprenticeships are good. Just make sure you look out for one that's going to give you a good learning path as well as what you do at university. Make sure there's a programme behind that. To continue development as well as just doing a job. Don't get a degree apprenticeship and go straight into job you have to do the other 4 days of the week. Make sure some development on the job as well alongside that. I think it's a really good way, and the government are really supportive of that, and I'm sure your teachers will help with that as well. And there's plenty of places to go and find them. Yeah, they're advertised in different networks of where you can start to look at what is available to you with your interests and what you care about as well. So it's a good thing.

Yeah, it's great. So, uh, does that answer your question? Any more follow-on questions from that?

Um, you didn't exactly explain where we could find them. You did explain the benefits, but not exactly where to look.

Where can you find them?

So, so most companies will advertise them on various sites, and we can certainly provide some information to your, your teachers as well. But there are aggregates out there that advertise their placements on sites. That means you can go and find them. I can't recall the name of it, it'll come to me in a minute, I'll share it. But you can start to look through, and it gives you the ability to search the kind of jobs you're looking for. Search the locations where you want to be based and the industry segments, and it will start to point them to you. Um, to where we found ours for, we went out into colleges, uh, and did some expo days. So I put up a little stand at lunchtime and promoted our company to try and attract some people to apply to start the process. Um, and that's how we got our degree apprentices on board with us.

But I think that there's, there's a bit of a push and take, right? You, you'll need to go out there and see, choose the companies you want to go work for and see if they've got one. There's an aggregated group so you can see holistically who's doing degree apprenticeships, but you won't get them all. So you, you'll have to do more work and decide which companies you're interested in and see if they have that.

We have one more question. Yeah, it's a good one too. It's a real doozy, so go for it. I didn't want to miss it.

What are the golden tickets into work, and how can we ensure that everyone, regardless of their background, has a chance to thrive in the new economy?

That is such a good question. Okay, who wants to answer that question? We start with Ray.

I'll start. It's an interesting one because I've never seen one particular golden ticket. Education, absolutely though, right? I mean, I said about my own background, education. I did my degree late in life and I had to really just work hard to bring myself up. Your network. I know there's a question later on about this, the network, your people, friends, family, friends. The network is so important because they were here. You'll hear, you'll hear more about those opportunities and roles that come up. So don't be scared to use the network. But I think that individual point of education, because what are we looking for and why do we want you to do education is because it shows perseverance, it shows tenacity, it shows, yes, a level of intelligence, but it shows that you can stay the course to do things. And that's important. And really understanding there's not just one golden ticket and there's not one route which is better than another.

Before we pass it to Jeff, and we will go— you'll go next, Jeff. Can I just give you another angle, right? Because what, what Ray says, absolutely right. But I want— my golden ticket is this: pilot your own career. You take charge of your career. When you're looking for— you're looking for a career, not a job. You want a career. If you're just looking for a job, you're narrowing the field because it's very competitive. And so you're going to have to work hard, you're going to have to fight for it, and the education will give you some access, but it's not the only way. It's in your hands, and it's not easy. George and I did an episode called Hunting, Hustling, Hired, a recent episode. It was one of our most downloaded episodes, and we recorded it especially for you, for people like you at your stage, because it's really hard to get the chance. And, you know, there's more to it than just getting an education. It's really important, but it's not enough. You've got to fight for it. Pilot your career. Geoff, over to you in the studio.

Studio. Thank you. So I agree, there is not one golden ticket, I'm afraid to say. But I'd just draw you back about 2 or 3 minutes to something that Neil said just now about the degree apprentices he's got in his business. He said they were super smart, they were contributing, and he finished off by saying, and they're great fun to have around. So don't forget your personality, don't forget your character. That will be a big part of how you get on with colleagues, how you move through the organization, how you find opportunities.

That's a good point.

Go away. There was a bit earlier on about when you go for interviews. I wanted to say, but just before you say your piece, When we're going through interviews, whether it's at our stage or your stage, the key question that the people are asking themselves on the other side of the table is, can I work with this person? Will they fit into our team? Will they be good fun, but will they fit with us? That's the singular most important question that they are asking themselves.

Really important. Yeah. Will they fit in? Because once you've got past the capability, will they fit in?

Absolutely agree with that.

Building on what Gary said about finding a career, not a job, in my research I found that, for example, people who have just finished university, they'll come out and they'll say, oh my gosh, I need a job, I need to find something so I can get money. But you might not necessarily end up happy because you've chosen a job out of necessity. So instead of looking for a job, look for a career, something that you will enjoy building over a long time and that you can achieve and something that will make you happy.

Very well said. Very well said. Everyone agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. Be happy. Why wouldn't you be happy? Are you happy? It's just me.

Okay, good.

Um, have we more questions there, George?

No, that's the end of the questions. It's time for questions from the audience.

Participation. Are you ready? Would there be a point in your career where your work experience will be more important than the uni you get a degree from?

Definitely. And surprisingly quickly, as you build up experience and capabilities and learnings, a degree or a degree apprenticeship, your next qualification is important. So let me put that straight out there, but it's just a stepping stone. It's just part of a journey. It's just part of your career. And as you gain capabilities and experiences in different jobs, it'll slowly become not forgotten, but a platform that's there and you've just put in the past.

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? It's probably a diminishing return over time because, uh, you know, because to get the step up, you need— you've got to you're competing with everyone else. But over time it is about your attitude and your capabilities and your, you know, your kind of work ethic. So, but it's not forgotten, but people, they stop asking you for qualifications at some point. You'll be pleased to know there is a point where they don't ask me anymore, thankfully.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's spot on. And I think also talking about what we did earlier about the experience that you can build, you can start doing that now. There's loads of stuff that you guys can start doing now to differentiate yourselves when it gets into that interview stage, regardless of what grades you've got at university. Obviously, as we've said, they're incredibly important, but that experience and that stuff that you can say, you know, I did this and I did it off my own back early on because I wanted to set myself apart. I think that's as important, I would say. If I may.

Thank you. Independent, outside the House of Commons. Brilliant.

Any other questions from the audience?

Okay, we've got time for 2 more questions in the audience. This gentleman here. Uh, here's a question to all. Let's say hypothetically you may not really do well in your end of years or your Year 13 exams. Let's say you may have done a bad— I mean, I heard some person say they got fudged as their grades. What would be your advice for people who have gone through that phase and need to actually bounce back after doing that? Great questions. How do you bounce back from adversity? Fudge, go for it.

Great question. Um, as I say, I went into, uh, into an apprenticeship. I was, I was a paint sprayer. And what I did was I, I kind of— and you talk, we're going to talk about it, um, in a bit— is about your network. And my network actually expanded, and I got a leg up, just to say, of where I wanted to go through, through my wife and her brother who was in sales. And that was the journey, journey I went on. And how do you bounce back? I got a thirst for learning. I, you know, I first admit I, I couldn't wait to leave school. Sorry, teachers. But it— when I was— when I got into work and when I, I, I, I started to want to learn instead of being forced to learn is when I really moved on. I, I went back to university at 25, and by the time I was 30, I came away with a master's. So, you know, it's never over.

Thanks so much, Dave. Yeah, I think this is an interesting one. So Neil talked about growth mindset, and what Dave says is absolutely right. We're going to talk about networking in a minute, but probably the most important thing, advice I would give you, is your mindset. A growth mindset is when something doesn't go my way, do I get bitter or better? Because if you get bitter, it will eat you up and you won't get anywhere. It's natural reaction. But if you, if you've got a mindset of, you know, based on what's happened, I want to learn from that. Can I do something better next time? If you're open-minded enough to realize that maybe you didn't do everything perfectly and you can learn from it and do better next time, that mindset is a growth mindset that will make— that will pick you up quicker. Because you won't suck your thumb for so long because it's natural to be that way, but it doesn't help you. Does that make sense? If you suck your thumb, it doesn't help. It didn't move you forward. What moves you forward is what's in here. So learn from it and move on. Definitely networking would be key.

Anyone else? One more zinger.

One more zinger. One more zinger from the audience, please.

Any others?

What is a zinger?

Over here. We're about to find out.

Okay, big zinger coming from the audience. Last zinger till the next topic. You're good, by the way. Really good.

Um, hello. Hello. Considering that, um, a lot of people end up going to university and coming out with a lot of student debt that accumulates over the years, even though the UK government does write off student debt after 30 years, many people who stay in education for an extended period of time, e.g., doctors, come out paying up to like 70K over the years. So what's the best way to manage having student debt but also beginning a career and then moving on to buy your own house, start a family, etc.?

Yeah, it's a good question. Eleanor, do you want to answer? I know you haven't got to that point yet, but you've had to consider that. It'll be interesting to know your thoughts.

So I did 4 years at uni, um, and still have 4 years of student debt, um, and I am looking to do a PhD Um, a lot of research has gone into what I've done, a lot of research into looking into future education after my degree. And what I found is that a lot of universities will offer studentships, and they'll pay you, or they'll pay for your education whilst you contribute to their research. So it depends on what you want to do following your degree. There's also working masters So you'd— they're longer, but you'd be working alongside it, um, a lot, a lot like apprenticeships. You'd spend one, one day a week at uni, um, doing your degree and then actually working, um, beside it. There is help out there.

That's a great answer. That's the consideration. Obviously degree apprenticeships are another way so you don't get the debt in the first place. It's not easy, right? It's a difficult situation. Okay, we need to move on because I want to make sure that you get to go home eventually. Okay, so we've got one more topic.

The last topic is The Art of Romance.

Yes, The Art of Romance. Now, the reason we've called it The Art of Romance is it's about joining the dots, is about schmoozing the people, you know. It's using all the research and experience and knowledge that you've gathered. If you do that and you don't use it, it's a waste. So the reason for the topic of The Art of Romance is how do you leverage what you know to get the best return of your investment. Does that make sense? Because sometimes people go through all the trouble and you apply for 100 jobs and they didn't get what you wanted, and maybe you need to adapt to what you're doing, how you're doing it. So question, question number 1. Now that you've got all the skills that you've gained over sixth form, university, let's say degree, apprenticeships, you've gone out networking, how do you use all of those skills to make a fantastic impression when you're first meeting employers? Nice question. So first impressions, uh, Jeff, then maybe Neil.

Go for it. First and foremost, it's not about you, it's about them. How often have you been in a conversation where the other person or the other people just want to tell you about themselves, uh, what fantastic things they've done, where they've been? And I would guarantee you, pretty quickly you're like, I want out of here. So be interested in the other person. It's all about them. Comes back to some of the earlier comments about researching when you go for interviews. Know who you're speaking to, know what his or her interests might be. So first and foremost, focus on the other party, not on selling yourself. People, people love to be asked questions about themselves. They love talking about themselves. They love people who ask about them.

Great advice. It's counterintuitive, isn't it? Don't you think? Because you're trying to sell yourself at the interview, but you're better off doing what instead? What's the solution? What do you do? Ask questions, right? Ask them questions. There's Jeff saying show an interest. Then they'll say you've had a good conversation. Have you ever had a chat with someone where they just talked at you like I'm doing to you now? They talked at you all the time and you're like, as Jeff said, you know, you're rolling your eyes and then you're a good listener, so you listen to them and ask them questions. When you leave, they say I had such a great conversation with you. You didn't say a word, but they had a great conversation. Have you ever had that before? Not sure. Okay, good.

Question 2.

Many people, especially people our own age, don't have very much work experience. How can somebody without experience sell themselves to a recruiter in an interview?

Great question. So this is the challenge. We're in a loop. We don't have experience. Sometimes people at an interview say, I can't hire you because you don't have experience. What do we do?

Lauren? I think something you can do there is think about your personal qualities and sort of translate how they could work in a, in a specific workplace, especially if you already know what workplace you're going into. You can think about how you can adapt those personal qualities into things that might work in your workplace. So, you know, you could be really organised as a person, you could be great at talking to people, and you can translate that to skills that are needed in the specific workplace rather than having actual examples. From a job, because that's all what jobs are really, just using your personal skills to do jobs.

Thank you, Lauren. Yeah, a couple things for me, right? So it is hard, right? So you've got to try and figure out where you start, but I'm sure in the room you, you all care passionately about something outside of education, right? So you're in a great environment here, um, but I share experience with one of our degree apprentices. She happened to play football So who in the room does a competitive sport of some sort in their own time, weekends, right? But this young lady, she played football, right? Which is great. And so we started with that, but pretty quickly she told me she was the captain of her team and she already started doing her coaching badges. So she started to get qualified at a sport that she cared about. So she's demonstrating that she's willing to go a bit extra further to do that. But she's also showing leadership skills. You know, she was captain of the team, She bothered, she wanted to be better, so she thought, I'm going to get some coaching qualifications to help me do a better job for my team. So already she's starting to differentiate. And I think to Lauren's point, try and find an opportunity to do some work somewhere and try and do some work in, uh, something you care about, or so it's going to help you with some skills. So I think definitely even working in a cafe, a restaurant, anything we're interfacing with people, use that as a chance to learn skills, right? Build relationships, as you heard. From, from Jeff and my colleagues, right? So find things. You know what, I'm going to approach this job as a, as a learning experience. I may be just doing something in front of house somewhere on a Saturday morning for a few hours, but I use it to build my skills. Can I build relationships? And a good example is, um, you know, that sort of first impression is went to a little coffee shop down the road. The staff are fantastic, right? They're, they're baristas making coffee, but they were fantastic. Is that fair, Gary? Because they were the extra. Hey guys, how are you? What you fancy today? Just engaging with people is it makes a different experience. So really think about that. And to add to Jess's point, for the interview process, always remember you're being watched from the moment you arrive. And sometimes companies will ask the receptionist, the front of house, and yours here, by the way, is fantastic. I forget her name, but they will ask the people you first interface with and say, what were they like when they arrived? Were they engaging? Were they kind of starting to chat to us, or were they just not? Okay, and that's often what companies do. So you're being watched even before you start the interview process. And they'll often go back and ask that person who picked you up at reception, took you through for the interview, how were they? Were they chatting to you? Were they engaging with you? Were they asking questions? Or they're just kind of following on behind? So all this started to form an opinion, right?

So thanks, Neil. Yeah, so there's some ideas. One other thing I want to add, and I mentioned at the beginning, if you can do something, a project, something for charity where you've showed you had to organize something, you did something better for society— I know a lot of you into kind of ESG and some of the green stuff, doesn't matter what it is, Do something, because when you go to the interview, you've got something to talk about. This podcast is another example. Do, do another podcast or create your own podcast. Do something where you've got something to show, because you can't get away from the problem. They're going to say to you, you don't have experience. When I went to one of my first jobs, I didn't have that many qualifications. I know I look really smart, but I'm not. But I did have the experience of building a large charity team of 40 people when I was 16. And so when they said to me, you don't have any leadership experience, 'Or any experience?' I said, 'I do, I've run a big event around London.' So you don't have to do a big event around London, but find something, a charity or some project where you can ask for help and then have something to show. Great.

Yep, number 3 actually. We've got 2 more questions and I think we've got about 4 minutes.

So, uh, 1, 2, 3, let's do it. This is big.

As you said, uh, networking and making a fantastic impression is really important, but after you've put all that effort in networking, how do you maintain that relationship and keep track of the information you've learned over time?

Such a good question. You know what, that is such a good question. Who, who can we pick on? Oh, Eleanor. Okay, great.

So obviously I'm just out of uni, um, applying for a load of jobs. What I've done is, um, set up an Excel spreadsheet. It's not fancy, um, and I've put all of my skills and jobs that I've applied for down, and I've tracked them as they go through the, um, process. And if I don't hear back, I give it a time limit, a week, 2 weeks. I follow up with a nice gentle email saying, have you seen my email, etc., etc. From the relationships that I've already built, I make sure that if I have achieved anything, could be small, could be big, I make sure to go back to them and say, thank you very much for giving me the opportunities that you've given me, the experiences. This has helped me get this job. Or has helped me get to where I am at the moment. And I keep them up to date to where, with my achievements and yeah.

Brilliant. Neil and Geoff are what I would call master networkers in business. They're like, I don't know, their superpower, if you like, is networking. So it would be useful if you could share your networking superpower with it, with it through the lens of these guys. Obviously they're building their networks now.

So, um, some of my colleagues are going to grimace. We have a little phrase called chess moves. This is about how we keep in contact with people where we think there might be a business opportunity. So what you'll do is you'll typically create some form of news feed, news alert, some sort of notification to you when the person that you've met, or their company, their club, their industry, the sector they're in, is doing something. So you can just set these things up on Google News or whatever, and then you get something in. And let's say they work for a company and you hear that that company's being bought by another company, or it's having a fantastic year. That stimulates a brief message from you to your contact. You, you can send the email saying, really pleased to hear about your new results, really pleased to hear about this, that, or the other. How's things going with Project X? And you just got that continual drip feed. Not, not every week because you'll be a pain in the posterior, but every month or two, just a little nudge to stay in touch.

Yeah, it's great advice, right? And there's tools to help you do that— LinkedIn, Google, etc. But I, I come at a slightly different angle. I definitely agree with Jeff there, but just think about simple things you may do when you get into a process and you meet somebody. Just a quick note of thanks is, is— makes you stand out. If you do get to an interview, just a quick note, thank you for the time, thank you for the interview, this is what I learned about your business or themselves, yourself. Just be a bit generous with that and be surprised how much difference it makes. The amount of people I've interviewed And, you know, they come to the end of it, you know, that dreaded question, any else to ask? And it goes quiet, right? So think about the questions you want to ask. You get one chance to make that impression. But almost when you go back and you think, actually, I should have asked that question, just a quick note, thank you for your time, mister, I really appreciate it. I'd learned this. And by the way, could you just help me with one extra point I forgot to ask? Just show some character and you already stand out from the rest that just don't do that. And believe me, there's a lot of interviews and they just don't do that. So just be a little bit different and you may be surprised where it takes you. And when you meet people, same thing, if you're not in interview, just someone you might meet through a work experience opportunity or people you know, just a quick note of thanks goes a long way and tell them what you learned. Thank you for your time, I learned this, and share back with them and you'll already be starting that journey of building an effective network. I'll leave you with a thought on that for me is at the age I get to, I definitely know my network has driven my success for most of my working career. Who I know, how I interface with them, and be fantastic at building relationships, which is all about being more interested in them.

So, and this is actually a superpower of yours as well, is it not? Is there like a company doctor secret to this?

There is, yeah, there is, there is. There was two things I want to say, normally three, but only two today. The first one is, you know, to build on what Neil and Jeff have said, you know, networking is really important, but I use a word that apparently is quite trendy, which is Have audacity. You know what I mean by that? Have the audacity, be brave enough to connect. Like, if you've gone through all the pain of going for an interview, doing the research, trying to be your best, and then you drop the ball, it's like swimming across a river and swimming 98%. You're going to drown. Why not finish the journey? Have the audacity, be brave enough to continue. That's my first point. Okay, that's great. And my second point is, then George and I, when you, when you start listening to our podcast which I know you will now, we talk a lot about having a warm contact. So when you're, when you're meeting someone that you don't know, if you have no connection to that person, it's a lot more difficult than if you've got some kind of connection. Now you don't have to know someone else very, very well to have that connection. So when you're doing your research, here's my company doctor tip: try and find someone in the family, in a friend, through someone else, third party, that has some connection to that company and maybe even that person. Because if you can name drop, a good example is that Neil's son is about to go for an interview and the person that he's meeting has got the same surname. Just lucky. So he's going to have a bit of banter about, oh, we've got the same name, might be cousins or whatever he's going to say, right? Some connection because you're warmer, you know, like for example, if you've got a friend or you know someone of someone who used to work there, It's a start. That gives you a much better chance to leverage your, uh, your connection. You're not just a, you know, kind of a cold contact. It's okay.

Yeah, add something to that.

Yeah, of course.

I'm trying to sort of think through you, through your lens, so forgive me for this. Uh, at some point, uh, you'll probably start dating. Is that fair? As a, as a parent, right? You're not dating now, are you? Right. But at some point you'll start dating. And how do most people date in the modern world outside of school. How do people date in the modern world? Apps like Tinder, whatever, right? So it's the same principle. You use an app to get to find out about someone you might want to meet or not. It's the same in, in business, right? So use that same curiosity. Tools you can use are Google, LinkedIn. It's free information and people put it up there. It's the same principle as apps are trying to connect people. You're just trying to do the same thing, speed up the relationship building process by showing that I'm interested in the company and in the person. So just try to think through the lens of what your world might be like as you go forward, because we've been in this for a long time, right? So really think about that principle, right? If it may help you approach, you know, work environment somewhere in the future.

Brilliant. Great advice. I was thinking back to when you would, you know, I'm your age, dating. What did we use? A pigeon or something?

What was it? Definitely a pigeon.

Definitely a pigeon. Okay, good. I'm going to go to the audience and you may think in any of the groups, you might think of a question, have a think about it. Who wants to ask about a question around the art of romance? Anyone? We got one. Okay, you may have heard of the STAR technique. Would you advise us to use that in interviews, or would there be a different way for you to tell us to structure like our responses? It's a situation, task, action, and result. Um, look, there's, there's lots of things out there. I think that's a good technique, by the way, but you— it gives you a structure and a framework. The most important thing is you want to be able to connect. That's the most important you've got to think about. Your If you smile, you do your research, you've got something to talk about. The goal is to connect, and then you've got to convince people by knowing what you're talking about. And then you've got to be able to collaborate with them so that they, they feel they want to have you, as Ray was saying before, as part of your team. So I think that principle is fine if it gives you a method to work towards. The most important thing is you've got to be able to connect, convince, and collaborate. That makes sense. Okay, any other questions? Have you guys got anything else to say? Oh, Yes, Rafi, you were looking Google, weren't you? You had something to say. Go on, go for it, Rafi.

So in our research, we found that the top 3 jobs that will grow the most would be engineering, computer science, and healthcare, because it's not the fact that AI will take over the tasks, is that you will be working with AI. So they need to find people with skills to work with AI in order to function properly.

Yeah, that's good. And what's the question?

Oh, I thought we were answering.

Oh, we're answering the question. I did, yes, that's good. One of the things I want to mention is that some jobs will disappear, like data analysis, software development, but from the jobs that don't disappear, the overall wage could increase because AI implementation will lead to a lot of things. And overall, from what I saw in my research, from like, it will increase the overall wages and production of jobs in the future. Great. So what about journalists? They talk about journalists? No, nothing.

Okay, fine, game over for journalists.

So, so listen, George, any, any final comments before we wrap up?

I sense it's a hot room, and, uh, I think it's a smart room, and I think everyone's— I was going to say that we had a question earlier about, um, which was scrapped, but it's about introvert, how you can succeed as an introvert. Can you still be confident? There's so much confidence in this room. Um, amazing questions from you guys, really wonderful questions from you guys. So thank you very much for sticking with us. For being part of this podcast. I'm doing a wrap-up, I'm not sure if I should.

Don't completely close, don't say something else.

That was my piece.

But very good, round of applause for them. So just a couple of thank yous, because there's a lot of work being done by everyone else apart from us. First of all, we'd like to thank Sarah. She's helped master the class, get us all working, make sure rehearsals were done, and put a lot of effort in. So a round of applause for Sarah McPherson. Secondly, to to Alex Crossman, who to me is a real inspiration. He came on our podcast, he's got a great story of going from business to schooling. He's really committed to the cause and, you know, he's helped with the other teachers build an amazing school and, and a possibility for everyone, which I think is really exciting. So a round of applause for Alex. Um, I would like to thank our panelists. They've taken their time out of their busy schedules to be with us and navigate their way to Stratford, so Really appreciate you guys taking the time. And penultimately, your student team here, they've worked really hard. They've turned up to every class. They've done all the work that we talked about. Their commitment has been amazing, by the way. And hopefully you guys have got something to show for it. Then when you go out to your first job, you can talk about it, show them the episode. So a round of applause for you and well done.

Well done, guys.

And then finally, the star of the show is absolutely George. So George is my co-host. So when you listen to the podcast, everyone loves George. You'll listen to him, you'll love him.

I've done nothing today though. No, you actually have done nothing.

It's true, he's done absolutely nothing. So thank you for doing nothing, but you're a great host, so we love having you. Round of applause to you.

Wow, thanks so much. Thanks for listening to this live two-parter on The Route to Work, and we hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed making it. We'd like to personally thank the students of LAE for being such an attentive, inspiring, and engaged audience. We wish you the very best of luck and hope this experience will prove helpful as you navigate your own routes to work. Thanks also to Alex Crossman and the team at LAE for hosting us, and of course to our expert panel for their time and insights. If you did enjoy this episode, do visit thecompanydoctor.com where there are plenty more to be found. See you next time.