12 Lessons from 300 Episodes! + Running Shoe GIVEAWAY

Welcome to our 300th episode. To celebrate our 300th special, we are doing a giveaway sponsored from our partners, The Running Company Albert Park. If you want to find the best running shoe for you, go see them in store. They will assess you thoroughly and give you a range of shoes that fit you best, that they think will work for you, and they are not brand selective. They will give you a range that you can try on and make sure they work for you. But speaking of trying on the best shoes, For this particular giveaway, how would you like to try the new ASICS Mega Blast, the most talked about and potentially best daily trainer ever made? Well, we want you to share this episode onto your Facebook or Instagram story and tag us to enter the draw to win a free pair of the ASICS Mega Blast, the most expensive daily trainer on the market but also potentially the best. The, uh, the running company Albert Park is giving one lucky winner a free pair of the ASICS Mega Blast, and we will ship it worldwide. So wherever you are in the world, share this 300th episode special on your social media and tag us, and we will DM the winner and get a free pair of these Daily Trainers to you. And I've been wearing them in my own marathon prep, and they are a phenomenal shoe. They are this perfect blend of a, of a nice cushion daily trainer that also feels a little bit like a carbon plate while still being really soft and without a carbon plate in them. They are really good for easy long runs. I've done runs up to 2.5 hours in them, and I've done them at tempo and marathon and threshold pace and felt good all along. They're the most versatile daily trainer I've worn. Um, quite expensive on the upper end for a daily trainer, but if you want to win a free pair, then share this episode to your social media, tag us, and the running company Albert Park will send you a free pair. So Dad, welcome to the 300th special and congratulations on getting to number 300.

Uh, fantastic, Gerard. Um, how many years has it taken us to get to 300?

To be honest, we did the first episode in 2018 because we originally started it just as private kind of podcast coaching episodes for our athletes. And then we decided that, oh, if we're filming them anyway, we might as well— we kind of accidentally had a public podcast because we said, oh, let's just make it public, you know. And then people started tuning in, listening, and people really liked the advice. So, so the first one was in 2018. It took us a while to realize that people were enjoying it, to start doing it consistently. But yeah, I think we started really consistently, uh, through COVID in 2020 and, and haven't looked back.

Yeah, it seems like, uh Doesn't— I can't believe it's 7 years. I'm quite shocked at that. It's been so enjoyable and yeah, we'll talk about that later, but I'm just so happy that we've actually got to 300. It's pretty impressive.

We're going to go straight into it. 12 key lessons we've learned from 300 episodes, and we're just going to dive in and just go through the lessons and share some of the most valuable wisdom we've gained from doing them, we've gained from other people, and we've gained from learning and coaching our own athletes and the audience as well. So number one, I want to say that we've had a lot of good guests on this podcast, a lot of experts and a lot of pro athletes, and no one has it figured out. And especially the pro athletes don't have it all figured out either. And that's the very first message I want to say, is that the pro athletes are experimenting more than age groupers, you know. They're kind of figuring things out on the go. And sometimes I look at them and think, gee, if a coach was acting like that to an age group athlete, you'd be going, you don't know what you're doing, you're just making it up. But so many pro and athlete— pro athlete and pro coach relationships are them just going, you know, it's a bit of trial and error. So I think allowing more trial and error and understanding that the pros don't have it all figured out either is a really good place for our age groupers to start.

I love that first point, and it's really smacking you in the face straight away, isn't it? Um, for those people who think they've got it figured out, um, they're on the wrong pathway, uh, because no one's got it figured out, uh, and that's the beauty of this sport. That's what's what's so exciting is everybody is searching for that winning edge. And, and whether you're a beginner or intermediate or at the elite end of the, of the triathlon or marathon or cycling world, you are just trying to get 1 more percent. And if I've learned anything over the 300 episodes, that one lesson is that no one actually has the answers and, and the pros are in that category. And that's not a criticism. It's just they're all trying to find out what works you know, best for them. And that takes a lot of experimenting, trial and error. And sure, if, you know, if you did that on a lot of age groupers, that would be probably, you know, hard to do that. Whereas when you're doing it as a pro, you're really searching for the 1%ers that can make the difference because mostly, as if you look at the elite field in cycling, you know, pretty much any rider can win on any day. And same in triathlon. Any triathlete can possibly win on any day. It's who gets it right, who gets the training right, who gets the preparation right, who gets their taper right, who gets their execution right. Um, so there's so many nuances that come to get the final result that, you know, everybody, uh, can't just copy what that last person did to win that event. And that's, that's a big lesson, is, you know, you've got to find what suits you the best. And I think that would be a big takeaway from this podcast.

The 5-year cycle of the Norwegian hype train was the perfect example of that. In 2020, or 2021 I should say, you know, Kristian Bøelandhavt world champion and they were dominating triathlon and the Norwegian method was the most explosive thing. And they kept going with that method and then spent a couple of years for various reasons not performing to their best and making a lot of mistakes. And then through more trial and error, they came back this year and are back on board. And it's been this big cycle of proving that, you know, the one method doesn't always work. So that's a really, really big point. Point number 2, the next one, uh, there is still a raging debate about what the best type of training is. So explain what you mean by this.

Yeah, just flowing on from the first point, it's, it's great to, to talk about, uh, the science and the coaches. Those two, those two areas, uh, they're kind of working independently, but I think they should be working more together. And, um, so, so finding out what the best type of training is needs a little bit of information feedback from coaches about what's happening in the lab. And so, you know, The lab people say, this is what we've found, this is what you should be doing. That's what they're sending to the coaches and the athletes. But whereas the coaches see what the athletes do and how they respond to those testing protocols that the lab people have identified as the better way to train, and they should be actually just, you know, fine-tuning everything that's happening out on the field compared to what's happening into the lab. And I think, you know, we still don't know, you know, for example, there's no really great research done on Zone 2 over, you know, Zone 2 riding. Most of the research is done over 30 minutes or 60 minutes. It's not endurance. It's not a true Zone 2. You need to have done at least 90 minutes, to, to actually get the true reflection of what Zone 2 training is. And so there's not a lot of people are gonna sign up to do testing in the lab for, you know, long boring Zone 2 testing. So we don't have a lot of data on that. We have lots of data from the lab on high-intensity training, and we know that it's got real value in the program. So, so there's still debate about, you know, is it better to have 80% Zone 2 and 20%, uh, intensity? Is it better to have a bit more Zone 3, some Zone 2, some Zone 1, and a little bit as, you know, Zone 5? So, so, you know, the jury is still out on what is the best, uh, you know, scientifically backed training when we don't have a lot of good science around what, what actually happens to athletes in Zone 2. Because, because as I said, there's not a lot of really good testing that's been done, whereas it's easy to test high intensity because most athletes are going to sign up for that type of lab test where they're going to get some actual fast improvement from doing high intensity training.

Yeah, I think that the point there is, is really, you know, as coaches you see a lot of evidence of what's actually working in the field, and so you don't necessarily have to wait for it to be proven by undisputed evidence of testing. It's, it's all a bit of experimenting, which is kind of that point from, from point number 1 as well. But an example is we had a very highly successful coach and expert on this podcast whose approach around Zone 2 was highly conservative, and they were all about a really, really strong base, which we all are, but they would, they would take it to the extreme level. And they would say, I want an athlete to do Zone 2 for, you know, a ridiculously long base period before I even give them any intensity. And that's just a conservative approach, but they would go, I want them doing a year of Zone 2 before I'm giving them intensity. And we just laugh and we go, that's just not realistic, you know. No, no age group athlete is going to sign up to that program willingly, or very, very you know, and so while that approach might be best and safest, and that's their approach, you know, for us we just go, that's not realistic. When someone's got a race in 16 weeks, they're not going to just do Zone 2 and be okay with that. They'll probably still improve and they'll get a great base, but it's not enough.

Yeah, but they'll actually be fit and they'll, they'll get some, you know, they'll probably not injure themselves because they're not doing any intensity, but they won't arrive at race day the same level of form as if they had a sprinkling of intensity. So we know from the lab testing that having intensity on a weekly basis is going to improve you quicker than just doing long slow distance training. And that's been proven. So, but we don't have any evidence to say, as a comparison, just doing long slow distance training compared to a sprinkling of high intensity and long slow distance training, you know, which is gonna give you the best best outcome. We've got a really good idea from the people we, we coach what happens, but the lab hasn't got that data. So, so we're relying on the lab to confirm a lot of the stuff we've already identified. And, and that's just the message we're trying to get here is to identify some key lessons that we've learned over this journey. And it's not always, you know, one size fits all. Then that would be an answer for a lot of these lessons.

For sure. The next one is quite a unique take, but who said the A race isn't worth it if you become an asshole along the way. And there's a few things we want to say about that, but I think the— for me personally, I resonate with this lesson because I go, gee, you know, sometimes when I'm deep into training and I'm really focused on a goal and you're really fatigued from training, you become just a little bit grumpy and irritable to be around. And, and if you start to lose sight of kind of a bit more balance and the enjoyment factor and you just kind of get a little bit too focused on the goal you kind of become an asshole to be around, and you might get to your goal, but was it worth it when you annoyed the people around you and your family, and you weren't that pleasant to be around? And I think that's a really, really important point just to keep in mind and worth remembering all the time, because we get so focused on our A-race, and being too focused is actually a problem.

It's hard for me to comment on this because I'm that person a lot of the times over my journey, and it can be termed a different way. It's people who are single-minded. Or who are, who are totally focused. They're all really good terms for the term you used, which, which, you know, is very derogatory, but it is true. The balance is what we're trying to, uh, I've been saying this for literally 300 episodes. If you can get the balance of it right, the training, the work, the family, uh, the nutrition, you know, the amount of hours you spend you get that right, you, you'll have much more enjoyable experience in the sport you've chosen. And you know, that's what we're trying to get across in these episodes is to, for you to have an enjoyable experience and improve. They're the two things you and I have said right from the start. We want to allow each athlete that we look after to be a better version of themselves in terms of improving, but we want them to enjoy the process. And if you're not, you know what, Jordan, if you enjoy doing something, you're more than likely going to do more of it. If you don't actually like doing something, every time someone presents you with, "You should be doing this," you're not going to probably do it. If I'm enjoying what I'm doing, then I'm going to be all— I'm going to be investing myself more and more into that task. And if I love seeing my lawns beautiful green, nice and cut beautifully, no weeds, if that's my passion, I'm going to spend a lot more time looking after that lawn. The only reason I cut the lawn is so that it doesn't look like a shambles, then I'm not gonna do it as often as I would. So everything in life, if you actually become passionate about it and love what you're doing, then you will be, you know, more likely to be more balanced in it.

The cliché is as true as ever, and it's worth saying that it's about the journey, it's not about the destination, which is the race. The race is just usually the icing on top, but I do like how your spin on this to athletes and the way you portray that to athletes is you say there's always another race. But when you're deep into your goal of your A race, you don't want to hear that, and you don't want to hear, no, no, this is the race I care about. And as a coach, you say, no, trust me, there's always another race. And that's an important reminder.

Yeah. And I could say the same to you. You've got a big race in 3 days' time, the Melbourne Marathon. And, you know, when we're doing this podcast, you know, you would be saying, no, no, that, you know, I, I feel like I'm a little bit sick here. I'm not sure quite how I'm going. I feel a little bit heavy. The taper's making me feel really awkward. I'm not sure if I'm in good form. You know, and, and, you know, you, you know, if you were coaching an athlete who said that to you, uh, you would be going, no, no, you're, you're totally ready for this. Just relax. Just be calm. Um, you know, all you've— all the job you have to do is execute the pace strategy that you've worked out. Um, and the job you have at hand is go and do it. And, and so they're the things that, you know, are more important than, than the actual result. And if you get to that start line really nervous and excited, they're good things, not bad things. Um, you know, cuz you care, you care about the result, and, and it is a big thing on that day, but it's not gonna define you. That result is not going to define you as a person. You are not Jordan the marathon runner. You know, that's what you do. You do marathons or triathlons or, and so you know, you should be absolutely focusing on how well can I execute today. And if I do my best execution, I've tried my hardest and I've really nailed that, regardless of the outcome, you've got to be happy.

Now I like to remember that you don't feel good on race day because you get this elated feeling when you, when you execute a race well and you, you get the result you're after, whether it's PB or just the execution. Um, but you don't feel good because of the race. You feel good because of the work you put in to get there. And that's a really key distinction. I'm not sure that, um, that comes across very clear, but you— it's not the race itself that feels good, although it does. It feels good because you know the sacrifice that you put in to, to get that effort. That's, that's the rewarding part. Because if you ask any athlete, if I could just grant you a wish and you wake up tomorrow and you suddenly wiped off 10 minutes off your PB or half an hour off your 70.3 time, you know, would you take it? And most athletes realistically are going to say, of course that would be nice, but no, because I haven't earned it, you know. So it wouldn't feel— I wouldn't feel satisfied with that. It wouldn't feel good, you know. I want to get the 30-minute PB, but I want to do it with 6 months of training that gets me there.

I hope you know that I've always said this, that your grandfather, my dad, said you get what you deserve. And, and that's a really true saying. And I've said this a few times on the podcast in the, in the past, but, but, you know, if you, if you do the work and you're well prepared inevitably you should get the result that, that you're after. Um, there can obviously be things that go wrong, like mechanicals, or, you know, you twist your ankle or something, or you get injured. But you will generally get what you deserve if you put the work in. Then, then you'll be fine. Uh, and, and I think no truer sentence has been said. And I've used that a lot. And I know myself, when I've been not as well prepared as I wanted to be, then it's my— it's on me. I, I can't be upset about not getting the improvement result that I wanted because I haven't prepared the way. And I've loved coaching some people over, especially over the last 8 to 10 months, who've really got that message, really, they've listened and got that message. And I was actually just talking to Ben and Beth, two athletes that we coach who are, who are partners who live together. We coach both of them. And they turned up to the last Sunny Coast with probably the worst preparation that they'd ever had. In the whole time we've been working together, and it's been, you know, several years. And I couldn't have been more prouder that they performed according to the form they were in and stuck to the race plan. And they couldn't wipe the smile off their faces because of the execution that they— they had more enjoyment out of. I nailed that execution. Sure, I was slower than I wanted to be compared to what I've done previously, but considering the preparation that they had They moved house, they moved cities, they had injury, illness, everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong, yet they still managed to get to the start line and execute according to the form they were in. That's a great example.

I love that example. We talk about the fitness score. Let's say that your max fitness score you could be in was 100, and for those two, the form they were in for the race was actually at 70. They're at 70% capacity of their 100, and had they made a mistake of what most athletes do and aim for a race plan to perform at 90 or 95, they would have got a race result of 40 or 45 because it just blows themselves up. But instead, their max was 70, they executed at 70, and they got 70. And that's a much more enjoyable experience.

Yeah, and you know, that's the, that's the point of this, of this number 3 point. You know, the A race isn't the be-all and end-all. The, the joy of competing is what it's about. The journey of the training session and then trying to nail your execution, that's what it's more all about, rather than this this one almighty race that we're training for. Because, you know, once that race is gone, is there nothing else after that? Sure, there's another season and another race, and, and there'll be same races coming up if you're, if you're in this for the long term. There'll be, you know, I look back when I first started this as a, I think it was a high 28-year-old when triathlons first hit the scene in 1981. And, you know, here I am in 19 2025, still trying to compete in these races, you know. So it's like 45 years of racing. So, you know, that's an example of, you know, it's not all about one year or one season.

Yeah, for sure. The next one is for those who feel a little bit, uh, maybe confused or frustrated about lack of progress. And, and this lesson is just a reminder that it's not black and white and it's not a straightforward maths equation. This process is always quite nuanced. And if you remember that, it might take a little bit of a little bit of pressure off yourself to be like, if you can't figure out the answer, you know, it's quite nuanced to figure out the solution to improvement.

Yeah, I think the big lesson is that there's, you know, there is no one session that's going to be the game changer or one program or one week of training or one block. It's a filtering of backwards and forwards between you and the athlete, the coach and the athlete. And, you know, if we just did this 18-week program, you'll get this result. It, it just doesn't work like that. You've gotta start with a framework, and that you try to, to each week overload yourself slightly so that by the time you get to the race day, you've built that progressive overload all the way to race day. But, but it's just never like that. It's not, it's, you know, there's not, it's not as straightforward as that. You have to manipulate sessions according to how you're coping And people always say— this is an interesting one— people always say to me, why don't you release 8 weeks or 10 weeks of the program? Because in TriValor, we never do that.

Hmm.

And the reason is because we change the program every week pretty much. But, but we wait until the weekend until you've actually done the week's program before we can let you go on to the progressive overload next week. And for us just to give you 8 weeks and, and say, see you later, that's actually not, not how you should be coached. It should be, how did you go this week? Okay. You struggled. That's not progress. Let's just try and do that again. See if we can match those numbers. And so that's, that's a, that's a sort of, you know, it's not black and white. It's, you just can't do this week, this week, this week, this week, and expect it to be exactly like that. There has to be some filtering and, and backwards and forwards between the athlete and the coach, finding out how they're coping, How's the fatigue? Is it too easy? Do we need to push you a little bit more? Is it just right? Great, let's just progress it the way we are. Is it too hard? Great, let's pull back. So there's never just one size fits all, it's just not straightforward.

This next one is the most important one on the list for me, and I want us to try and talk about it from maybe a different kind of angle than we've spoken about before. But it's a tale as old as time for us, and it's the story we see repeating itself over and over again in the coaching process. And it's forgetting to be grateful for your current level of fitness and be grateful for how fit and capable you are right now. And no matter what level you're at, being grateful for it because you could always be worse off, you know. And that can again be a cliché, be like, oh, there's always someone worse off than you. Of course, you know, you could run that kind of model infinitely till you get into a really negative situation. But I think, you know, your own fitness journey the last 3 years is really proof of that, that you probably had remarkably 10, 12, 14+ years into your mid-60s where you, you still kept improving. You were still somehow riding faster than you were at 52, you know, and some bike developments might help with that, but your ability to execute and, and have fitness kept going up. And certainly in the last 3 years where with some— you've had kind of one major health thing go wrong for 3 years in a row where it's really been taken away from you. I guess my message is that that, you know, it will get taken away at some point, you know. And some athletes are lucky, you know, we speak about our Uncle John on this podcast who, you know, it didn't get taken away from him until he was 85, but it will eventually, you know. I just implore athletes to remember that, that, you know, we get so caught up in why isn't my FTP improving, or I've gone from 240 to 300 watts— this is the most common one— over 12, 18 months. I do my next test at 304 and I'm disappointed, I was only a 4-watt improvement. But this is the best you've ever been riding. Like that's what you just did 18 months of training for, to be at this level and enjoy it, because it can and will get taken away from you inevitably.

Yes, there's so much to that point, Gerard, and I've experienced it the most in the last 3 years, and I could be a sour grape, grumpy old man really, if I chose that method. But that's not helpful to anybody. It's not helpful to me actually. I need to have perspective. With the conditions that I've had, I am so grateful that I'm still able to actually do some training. That's the— I've gone from wanting to win everything I'm in at my age group to now I'm just grateful that I can actually train and I can still start to build my fitness again. And that takes a big mindset switch to go from being super competitive to now my competitiveness is, can I train every day? And can I do some movement? Can I— and I'm grateful that I'm, you know, the medical teams have found the things that are wrong with me to enable me to actually start my journey again. And I just think the gratitude that you have to have, the perspective you have to have— we can't be at our best every day, every week, every month, every year, for year on year. There's going to be so many roller coaster highs and lows, and And if you get your mindset to be in tune with, "I'm just going through a tough period at the moment. If I just stay consistent, I'll get through this period, and in 6 months' time or 6 weeks' time or 2 weeks' time, I'm better off than I was 2 weeks ago." And that's my attitude. And, you know, I'm playing games with my own brain. I'm really talking myself into, "No, no, don't think too far ahead." you're struggling right now, but, you know, already I'm, you know, I did a couple of training sessions this week that were way better than last week, and I'm getting these little dopamine releases even though it's just nowhere near where I want to be. But you can't think like that. You'll actually put yourself in the asylum. You, you've got to give yourself some form of positive reinforcement that it's not fictitious, it's real. I have moved from, I think I think I've moved already from 218 to 230 FTP watt improvement in 2 weeks. So straight away, I'm happy with that even though when I— before I got injured, I was 290. You know, and people go, "Oh, that's just ridiculously crappy compared to, you know, where you were." Well, if I think like that, it's just down a spiraling hole that I don't want to go down.

Of course, we are all about improvement. That's the whole reason that we do so much research, we speak about this, and we have this podcast. The goal is improvement, but you have to also be able to celebrate the wins. And it's our biggest pet peeve if an athlete would ever say to us, I PB'd, but I got a PB FTP, but I took 10 seconds off, but I didn't break 25 minutes. And we just go, no buts. All I want to hear is a celebration and you soak it in for a little bit. And afterwards, we'll talk about— we always look at the data. Okay, that was a great execution. Where could you have found more time? Because you can always find more time. You know, what did we do in the last training block, what can we still improve in training, because there's always that case. But if you're running that spiral without the celebration, then what's the purpose of the whole journey? And that's, that's what we're talking about. The next one, people are quite— this is a quite encouraging one— people are quite helpful at their core. And I love this about the triathlon community because the vibes on race day show this, that the community is what it's all about. And so explain what this lesson means to you and why you wanted to include this one.

There's so many great examples of people who have been in trouble. I just saw a video the other day that was from the Ironman back, I think, 10 or 15 years ago. One of the— I can't remember the exact details of the athletes, but one of the leading female triathletes had a puncture, and she was on the side of the road, and athletes were in their own race, and she had no equipment to change her puncture. And eventually someone stopped and gave her all the equipment she needed to get back in the race, and she continued back on the race. And it doesn't matter about, you know, where she finished in the race. It was just someone was willing enough to give up their, their time or their standing on the side of the road helping someone else in the middle of their own race at the biggest event in the world at Kona. That to me is, you know, and I've, we talked about this a few weeks ago with, um, the few of the female athletes, uh, high-fiving each other who are, you know, going past the other direction, almost saying good luck. It wasn't a high five as in yee-hawing, it was high-fiving, good on you, you're beating me today, and the other person accepting their encouragement. Yeah, an example of, uh, one of the years and years ago, decades ago, um, a famous 1500-meter race in Australia where the 1500 or a mile, probably the mile actually. I can't actually— the date, as usual, I don't know the actual details, but the point of the story is more important than the detail. And we had some unbelievably great runners in Australia, just like Ron Clark and Herb Elliott and John Landy. And, and in this particular race, one of the athletes, Ron Clark, fell over, and John Landy stopped, went back, picked him up, and then continued on in the race. He eventually won the race, which is pretty remarkable in itself, but that sheer act of willing to give away your opportunities, uh, at a result, uh, to care for someone else. I, and I think, I definitely think the interviews we've had with, uh, with some, uh, Stephen Seiler and Joe Friel, they're just willing to give up information to help others. They're not getting paid for that. There's so many examples of that that I absolutely love. And, and we in ourselves are trying to do the same. We're trying to give back As much information that you and I can then have that we've experienced ourselves, we're trying to give that to the listeners. And I think that's a really good trait to have. If people can start to think about, you know, is everybody else around them okay? Look after yourself, obviously, but, but, you know, at the same time, you know, you don't have to be mean, nasty, and, and vindictive. It's okay to be you know, to be caring for others whilst you're still trying to achieve things.

Yeah, it's, it's been really encouraging to have so many experts and, and pros be generous with their time. And, you know, some people who have dedicated their professions to finding good answers for people— dietitians, surgeons, etc. You know, they've dedicated their lives to a specific solution to certain problems, and they come on and share it. And that's, that's really encouraging. And you do see it on race day as well. I just love people giving without expectation of return, you know, giving because it's the right thing to do and it, and it, it lifts up other people. And then if everyone does that, it really becomes this great environment. I just love that community aspect.

But, George, I could add to, you know, we've got a huge community of park runners in Australia and the UK, and it's not that big around the rest of the world, but every Saturday morning pretty much all around Australia and the UK, the two biggest areas of parkrun at at normally at 8 o'clock on a Saturday morning, there are thousands of volunteers around the world organizing these free 5K park runs. And people with their kids in pushers, walking dogs, up to elite runners who are running 14-minute 5Ks are in these park runs. And that's an example of community really encouraging each other to be healthy and fit. I think that's a brilliant, uh, example of what we're talking about.

We're going to switch lessons here and go to something that's quite specific to training and racing, and And this is just one that we really wanted to reiterate for triathletes because it's so interesting thinking about running improvement for triathletes and even just runners in general, any kind of age group runner doing a marathon. But you actually don't have to run hard to improve. And so we've said that a few times, and by a few I mean probably hundreds of times across 300 episodes. But I think that, you know, people equate when you hear the word interval, they think max interval, they think VO2 max intervals. And you can do intervals running without going into VO2 max zone. And we do a lot of tempo, subthreshold, um, cruise intervals even for running that's above zone 2 but doesn't actually get to a threshold and above, which would put you in VO2 max zone. And we see a lot of improvement in runners just from their ability to get intensity from other areas, from cross-training, uh, from just building their running base and building up their volume, getting strength, uh, and running paces that aren't actually VO2 that risk high injury. It's a, it's something we want ultra athletes to remember.

It's a, it's a great lesson. And this is another example of what the lab tells you and what out in the field, you know, everyday athlete who's out there actually doing it. The lab tells you, and all the books will tell you, that in order to run fast you need to train running fast. And there is a whole lot of evidence in that that's true. But, but a lot of that is based on elite athletes, and even they break down. But the elite athletes have got a lot more ability to withstand the intensity of the training sessions, whereas if you've only been running for 2 years or 2 months, you, you know, you can't go with your local group to the athstrack and start doing 4 200s. That is just a recipe for disaster. And as we talked about a few episodes ago, the running boom has seen a lot of that. And, and, you know, that's great for the physiotherapists and, and the, uh, the people who are seeing all these injured athletes, but it's actually not really the smartest thing to do. So we've, we've proven, just like we're talking about the science lab and in the field, we've proven that I take you for an example. I made you do a 5K time trial, actual parkrun last Saturday.

Yeah.

And, and you ran a PB, and even though we haven't done any fast training for a 5K, you're totally in marathon training mode, and here you are, you've come and run a PB in the middle of a, at the end of a training block for, for a marathon. And people will go, well, that's probably just lucky. But I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that we, you and I predicted that you should be able to run a PB here. And most people were saying, well, how is that possible when you haven't done any, you know, fast intervals? And you went out and ran, I think it was 20-something seconds, 15:38 or something. But, you know, that's by far the fastest you've ever run. And, and we had examples of other people who are training for the marathon who, who actually did a 5K and did a PB as well. It wasn't just you. Yeah.

And the people would say that, you know, oh, just increase in volume, you're going to improve. Well, there's a little bit of that true, but I was stuck on 16 flat for years, you know, at a 5K time. And then finally with this marathon prep, broke it, not just once but twice, and significantly this last time. And yeah, I think that has to be said, that's a big breakthrough through a plateau. So it's not just like a PB of linear progression, you know, I've been stuck on that for a while.

And I think, Gerard, the main thing that people need to listen to this advice, and that's one of the things we're talking about, is what are the key lessons we've learned is if you are able to maintain consistency in your training rather than running hard, um, where you've got the risk of actually losing consistency because you're injured or you break down or you, you run so hard that you actually have an immune system that gets a cold or the flu every 4 weeks, you know, you're going to have that inconsistency where you can't actually train the way you want to. You're better off slowing down, training as often as you need to, and you'll still at the end be better off than running hard, having, having a break, running hard, having a break. Whether the break's intentional or injury or sickness, that is not the way to improve.

Lesson number 8: stop expecting perfection. I think that far too often we just assume that if we train hard, we're going to get a linear progression, everything's going to go well, we'll keep improving, we'll get to race day, we'll get a PB. And it just does not happen like that. And if you expect that, it's a little bit delusional, and you're probably setting yourself up for failure for incorrect expectations.

Yeah, you definitely should expect to get improvement if you've been training methodically, consistently, with a balance. So the expectation should be that, but it's— you shouldn't actually be expecting the best all the time. That, that's something that I think people get really badly wrong. I've done this perfect training block, my expectation is that I should be at a level that I was 4 years ago. Well, that's just delusional thinking. You, you need to actually try to be at the level that you had probably been at 4 weeks ago and try to, to beat that. You know, that's, that's more of what we're trying to talk about here, is, you know, having this idea that one— I can use myself— if I'm, you know, at some point I could run very fast marathon, but, but now I can't. So that's an extreme example of I should expect to be able to do that again. No, I can't. I've got to be at the form that I'm in in the last 6 months or 6 weeks. That's where I am. And, and even though I've had a, I've had a perfect 6 weeks training, I can't expect to be where I was a year ago or 2 years ago or 3 years ago because that's just not where I am currently in that form. Even though my training's been exactly how it should be. So, so stop comparing to what your very best was. You should always be comparing to what you've just been recently, recently doing. And that's, that's what's called perspective, I suppose.

Yeah, I think it's just don't expect a perfect training block with no interruptions. Don't expect perfect progress all the time. Expect interruptions, expect highs and lows, but in the trajectory of improving. And we're not saying We don't want to see improvement. Again, if you're not improving, we want to see why, you know, we want to ask questions why, but just not expecting perfection. Lesson number 9, this is a fun contrast. This is two opposing statements in the same sentence. One size doesn't fit everybody, but you're not special. So we see both sides of this all the time. So what does that mean to you?

I just think if you expect that this program, this 12-week program you've tried is perfect for you every time, then you're going to be in for a rude shock because so many variables change throughout your athletic career. And so what you know worked for you 4 years ago, 4 months ago, might not necessarily work for you now. So, so also on the next point of that is if you see someone really successful, and you try to follow or copy what they're doing, that's probably a big mistake. And it may have some good aspects of that program that could help you, but it's more than likely not going to help you because it's not appropriate for you. The program they used was appropriate for them. They got that right. The person who's successful and improved the way they wanted to, they found a program that was appropriate for them, and they probably could find things they can improve on anyway. But just copying someone else's program, that's the, the idea of, oh, that worked for him. Um, you know, it's like us saying you don't need to do high-intensity training and you'll still get PBs in 5K. That's true sentence, but other people might need some high-intensity training to, to get a better result. So we're not saying a blanket rule, you don't— that's not what we said before. It's, it's not necessarily true that you need to have, uh, high intensity. So So this is the example we're trying to get across here, is that one size doesn't fit everybody. You've got to have the nuances that are suitable for you.

But you've got to remember at the same time that you're not special and you don't require a completely individualized program that is different to everybody else. Training principles still apply. Exact models still apply to what works. It's more that we have the base model, we have the basic training principles, there's only a finite amount of variation in VO2 sessions that you can do. And so you're going to fit one of them. And so the nuance is the push-pull. Okay, where do we push a little bit more? Over there. Where do we pull a little bit more? Back here. That's the nuance to the individual, not a totally new program. And that's a mistake we often see is people think that it's worked for those other people, but it can't work for me. Well, that's not true. The models work, but we've just got to get that nuance right to fit it individually to you.

Yeah, couldn't agree more. And, uh, we've got examples of that. Look, we've got some— you, you and I are tinkering with our programs on a monthly basis. We, we, we're really happy with what we did 6 months ago, and now we've learned some other things in training our athletes that we want to slightly vary the program. And, and this is going to work for this athlete, but no, we can't give it to that athlete because that's not the stimulus they need. And so it— that's, that's how important it is to, to know that yes, the program needs to be individual to you, but the majority of the sessions are gonna be okay. You know, it doesn't need to be exactly, uh, 30-second rest period, you know, at this power or, or this, this walking pace, or, you know, there's so many— people say to me, I'm doing the hill repeats, it takes me 2 minutes 22 to come back down the hill, is that okay? Absolutely, that's okay. You know, it just doesn't have to be perfect 2-minute on, 2-minute off. And the other things people are getting caught up in, it's the wrong thing, it's the wrong stimulus. They need to be concentrating on how well did you do the 2-minute hill rather than, you know, how long did the recovery take. Sure, if the recovery takes 10 times as long as it should, that's a problem, but, but if within seconds, it's okay.

Yeah. So the next point is, is, is that was on the training side, and now this is on the individual person and personality and you really want to make the point that just as a coach, you can't treat every athlete the same because everyone has different personalities that require different buttons to push.

Oh boy, I've learned this lesson so many times. And look, even as a father, you can't, you can't treat your children the same. Um, the method you use for one child blows up in your face for the, for the other child, and, and you get shocked. You just go, well, this worked How is it not working with you? And so, you know, every single athlete, you have to work out what are their key—

their buttons.

Yeah, key things that make them perform to their best. And that's a, that's a really hard thing. And that, for our coaches in TriVelo, that's the thing I'm telling them all the time as, as an advisory to our coaches. I'm saying, if you worked out the personality of this athlete, are they a person who needs person who needs to be pushed more? Are they a person who needs a softly, softly approach? Are they a person who needs to be pulled up when they're not doing it so well? Or does that have a detrimental effect on their, on their next training session? And so that's a, that's a real skill. And that's one of the things I've learned is what works for one person is, is probably never gonna work for someone else. And you can get personalities and you can put them into categories. And, you know, we've got some people who are who are just wanting more. Tell me, tell me how much more, you know, just give me some more training, I'll do it. And there's others are going, oh, it's far too much, I'm, I'm really struggling with the basics. And you, you look at two people who are doing the same race, and yet you have to give them completely different stimulus because of, because of their personalities.

Some athletes are so motivated and you want to— you have to calm them down and pull them back a bit. And some want, you know, really hard style coaching, military style coaching. Some you've got to really help them along the journey of building their confidence up. And some athletes have a lot of anxiety. And so I think if you're an athlete, you want to identify what you are as well, and really what helps you, and play to your strengths, and make it easy on yourself. And just go, I'm a person that responds better to this kind of thing. So you can treat yourself that way, and then inform your coach as well how, how to best approach things for yourself.

Absolutely. And I think we've learned that lesson many times with athletes who say to me, oh look, I'd rather you were a bit harder on me. Because I respond to a little bit more discipline. I really, I really want to be told if I'm not doing something well. And others are saying to me, oh, the way you're talking to me is that's actually putting me off. I don't feel like I want to, I want to train. I'm, I'm actually scared of making a mistake. Um, so it's, it's a real fine line.

Yes, definitely. The next one, it had to appear somewhere. You can guess what it's about, but we would like to celebrate this lesson with our own consistency of, you know, we've basically turned up every week for the last few years and done 300 episodes. So, I think that maths is about right. We kind of started in 2020 and it's been 5 and a half, almost 6 years, and that's about 50 episodes per year. So, it's, yeah, almost 300 episodes. So, consistency in turning up each day is what it's all about to improve.

Yeah, and I remember you saying, and your brother Liam saying, You know, if you just stick at it with a podcast, your numbers will grow, the message will be spread, and it's all about just turning up each week. And we made this pact that no matter what happens in our lives, we're going to try to do a podcast every week. And boy, that was tough. That was, you know, there's so much going on in everybody's world that, you know, have you got time? You know, these podcasts just don't happen. You have to have some planning and you have to have, you know, a lot of preparation in what you're thinking you're wanting to get the messages across. So, but consistency is the answer to most people's problems. If you are just turning up each day, eventually things will go well.

Last lesson is there is no shortcut. You've just got to be willing to do the work, but there's some key traits here that you want to get across that if you have these traits, you you'll be successful, and if you don't, you're most likely going to set yourself up for failure. So what are they?

Yeah, and number one is you just can't have any shortcuts. If you, if you want to fast-track something, you're going to come unstuck. There's just so many examples of my experience over my life where I've just thought, oh boy, you know, in order to get to the next level, I need to be, I need to be training so much harder, and all I end up doing is injuring myself or getting sick. And so you've gotta have some patience. You've got to actually allow your body to absorb the training load and, you know, give yourself a long-term goal of 3 or 4 or 5 years where I wanna get to Kona in 2 years' time rather than saying, you know, in the next 6 months, I wanna qualify for Kona and you've only been doing triathlon for 4, 4 weeks. You know, they're the ridiculous sentences that we hear. But if you don't do the work, no matter what your goals are, you'll never get there anyway. You've got to be so patient with the way that your improvement will happen, and it takes years. And it's worse with swimming and running compared to riding because those actual sports take longer.

I want to say it doesn't take years to improve either. We, we say to everyone, we can improve you in the first 6-week block. You know, that's actually our promise as a coaching group, that we can improve you. But to get even close to your potential, it takes that patience and that discipline, and that's what we're talking about. And we just see it time and time again, the athletes that just come in and commit to the long-term process and just go, I'm here for the long I'm here to enjoy my improvements every 6 weeks when we test, of course, and not linearly, because as we said in this episode, some weeks you won't, some blocks won't go as well. You'll get sick, you'll get a bit of a fallback, you'll have a setback, but over the course of 1, 2, 3 years, you look back and you are just miles ahead of where you were. But the athletes that come in like a steam train, I want all the results now, I want all the training now, I want it all really fast, they burn out at the 10-week mark and they go off off the program and they get unmotivated. They burn themselves out. They overtrain. They lose their motivation. And then 3 months later, they get a whim again. You know, they get some motivation back and they go all in again and train as hard as they can for 4 months or 6 months. And they get really, really good results, but they've just way overdone it again. And even 6 months was too much of really hard, high-intense training, and they fall off again. And if you don't have this patience or discipline, you're going to do this yo-yo effect. You're going to get yourself sick. Injured, not improve, lose motivation, and just consistently for years be up and down. And we see this, and we've had some interesting stories of athletes who applied to get coached, you know, 3, 4, 5 years ago, decided not to go ahead, and we don't judge anyone for that, you know, your reasons are your own, and then call up 3, 4, 5 years later and be in the same spot because they didn't commit and they yo-yoed and they did their own thing back and forth. And the athletes who committed 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years ago and have just stayed the process are miles and miles ahead of, of what the athlete they were and have enjoyed that process. So that's the message we want to get to finish off.

That's a great story. And look, I, I want to also finish off by saying if you've got extreme behavior, whether it's extreme motivation, extreme, uh, intensity, or extreme laziness, They're behaviors that are unsustainable. You can't keep— it's like the analogy of nutrition. If you want to lose weight and you, you just go on a diet that's so restricting, sure, you lose weight very quickly, but you can't train properly because you've got no fuel. And you can't keep going with that, that diet because you actually can't perform even though you've lost the weight. You can't train or race or perform at any decent level because you're not having enough fuel. So that behavior is unsustainable. So they're the things that— they're the shortcut things that we're talking about. Just give everything time so that you can actually progress at a level that A, keeps you consistent, B, sees you achieving the goals with some perspective, and you're a decent human being and you're not being a pain in the backside because you're so fatigued from being single-minded about training so hard, so much. That, that unsustainable methodology of training, that is, that, that extreme behavior, it just can't, it can't last. It— you will actually end up giving up the sport, which, which we, we don't want to see happen. And, and that's probably the most important lesson of the whole lot, I think, in all those 300, uh, 300 episodes.

To finish off, we've got Marathon Diaries. We've brought you the journey, uh, to the Melbourne Marathon that we've been doing as coach and athlete. All the way here, and a lot of you have been enjoying it. And Dad Race Day is here, it's 3 days away, the big marathon. Actually, uh, it's the home circuit, but I still decided to drive majority of the course this week. I've ridden— I've run on every single road plenty of times, so didn't really need to, but just wanted to get a bit of visualization. And gee, when you're driving it in a car, you're going, fuck, this is a long way, you know. You can't— shit, I have to run all this. But I just want to share some lessons um, from the taper week and his final taper and get your final thoughts heading into the race. Um, but it was— it's a reminder that the taper itself is a bit of a head spin. And I was joking to you that you start doubting every single little thing and you start becoming a bit of a hypochondriac. Uh, I was going to come and visit you and Mum this week and Mum got COVID and I just said, no way am I entering that zone the week into the race, especially considering the last race I was I was sick leading into it, um, but did a— as we spoke about— a 5K last weekend, an all-out hit out. Um, that was really encouraging, and you do that for that confidence, but then all week you're going, oh, am I underdone? Am I overdone? Every single little niggle, you start overthinking, and you just relax and just go, you've done all the work, you're fine, you're not, you're not, um, delicate. Um, just embrace it. That's kind of the first lesson.

Yeah, it's so true, and, uh, you do need to be reminded of that because you can go down a rabbit warren stress and worry. And you have to actually look back and, you know, get perspective of where you were and where you are now. And you're in a great position, you know, you've done a lot of great training, a lot of great preparation. These are the messages I would be giving to any of our athletes who are entering into their big race. I had Fiona, who's in Kona, had a big chat with her yesterday, and that was such a fun discussion. And they're the things I'm telling her, you know, she's— she knows she's well prepared, and so do you. You've done the work, and if you just execute the plan, um, you know, you'll have a great result. And that's— that's as much as you need to look into it psychologically. Um, and the more you try to come from different angles, the more you're going to actually confuse yourself. And— and you have to actually just try to be as clear and as simple, um, you know as you say, when you get a tradesman into your house and he's got one job is to make sure all the lights are working, you come in and there's 3 rooms where there's no lights working. You know, you have one job, mate. Just fix the electricals in my house. And it's the same with an athlete. You know, just follow the race plan and you'll get the result you want and don't overthink it. And so it's easy to sit here and tell that, but when you're the athlete, this is so much of a world buzzing around your head that's, uh, that's, that's really unhelpful information. And just try to keep it simple and, and concentrate on the things that, uh, being— I always say be in the moment. That's a really key thing. And what people go, what do you mean? What does being in the moment mean? Well, if you just think about, you know, I want to run 2 hours 40 for this marathon, and I concentrate on I've got to run 2 hours 40, that's all I'm thinking about the whole race. You're not thinking about anything that's actually helpful to contribute to you getting the 2 hours 40. You should be thinking about what things do I need to do today to get 2 hours 40. I need to get to bed the night before. I need to get up and have breakfast. I need to get to the race in time. I need to warm up properly. I need to start the race at this pace, and then at this kilometre mark, I'm okay to release a little bit more intensity. And then when there's a headwind, I need to have someone between me and the wind. I need to be checking my paces. Because they're the things that you need to be thinking about to get you the 2 hours 40 that you're trying to do or 2 hours 30 or whatever the event time that you're trying to do for this race. Not concentrate on the end result. Concentrate on the things that will allow you to get that end result. What am I doing in this moment? And keep asking yourself, how do I feel? Is this pace I'm doing appropriate for the heart rate, for the feelings I've got? Asking those questions over and over again. And all of a sudden, the race goes really quickly. You're not filling your head with negative thoughts. It's all about what's happening now.

Honestly, that was— that's been a big reminder for myself this week, is, is I just reminded myself to not just focus on enjoying the race and the execution, but actually enjoy this week and the taper process. Because realistically, you work all year to be at this fitness level for your A race, you know. So you don't just focus on the outcome of the day, Enjoy the fact that most likely, if everything's gone well enough, you're the fittest you'll be for the year, you know. And so enjoy that feeling. You know, it was really fun this week to do the last two kind of hit-out sessions and just feel on top of the world, feel super in form with some VO2 efforts, some threshold efforts, some tempo efforts. And just to smile to yourself and go, I've worked, I've trained so hard for this, you know. Enjoy, like, remember to enjoy this actual feeling. You know, you wanted to be this fit. It's not just about the race itself. You wanted to to this level. And so that was a big reminder for me. And the other taper lesson I think is important for people to remember, if you're thinking about your own taper and how to get it right, is remember that it's, it's a push-pull system. So we have our goals and our principles of the taper, which is to reduce fatigue, drop the volume down, but keep intensity in there so that you're not falling asleep and you can remain confident, you know, that you've, you've actually— you're still an athlete and you can move your body. You know, if you just don't train to try and recover, you start to forget, can I actually perform? Um, but the push-pull part is every day, you know, you kind of want to be asking yourself, what do I need a bit more of here, or do I need a little bit less? You know, and we have the principles, but everybody's going to be feeling a little bit different. And so, you know, we had a bit of a taper into the 5K on the weekend, and I felt really fresh for that. And so we decided that feeling good, absolutely go for a PB. But that's not— everyone won't have that experience. Some people might be coming in really overdone and they just need a 5K confidence booster, but they don't need to go for a PB. You know, they don't need to go max out, but we— you and I decided to go max out. But then that meant I got to Tuesday of this week feeling really fatigued from the 5K still. That really took a lot out of my legs, and I was actually quite sore. Um, and so the Tuesday session, I actually backed off a fair bit because I was going, oh, I really want to freshen up. But then by Thursday, you know, I'm feeling fine again, and I backed off and feeling good and ready for that little bit, last bit of volume. So just an example of— it's a constant push-pull system using principles, but but really paying attention to what you need individually.

Yeah, and everybody's going to be different, and you can't just throw one taper to everybody. And we've said that in many episodes. And what you're, what you're reminding each athlete— and there's a lot of, right, a lot of races happening in the next, you know, 2 or 3 weeks locally here. We've got the World Cycling Championships down here at Lorne, we've got the Melbourne Marathon on this weekend. There's so many things happening around the world. Kona is on Saturday. So, so a lot of people are going to be hopefully hearing this podcast, and they just need to relax and understand that the taper is a really weird feeling, and, and it's different for everybody.

And lastly, I want to touch on the point you made in the podcast about, you know, we're talking about the A race isn't everything, and there's always another race, and you have to kind of hold this contrast in your own head of, of I've given everything to this race and I want it to go as well as possible, but it's not everything. And for me, I personally can't wait for this race. I've been training insanely hard for this for the last 11 months, but I also can't wait to— for the after the marathon and get back to some normal training. You know, the running portion has just dominated my life, this especially this last kind of 12 weeks. I haven't been riding the bike barely at all, which has been very foreign. I can't wait to ride the bike again. I can't wait to get back to more cross-training. So on one hand, I'm ready to give absolutely everything on Sunday, but I'm also just excited for what's to come after and get that variety back in training. I think for me, that's really helped me keep a bit more balanced mindset through the process.

I think that's great that you've actually mentioned that because it isn't the be-all and one thing that you've tried to do for your whole life. There's going to be thousands of more events that you'll be lining up for. And I think it's great. Get it in perspective. I am so fit for running right at this moment, but there's so many other things I want to do post this. And, and I, I think, you know, that is the message everybody should be taking away from, from their goal races. It's not the end of the— it's not the end of your journey. It's just one of the stepping stones along a long, enjoyable experience of endurance racing.

Right, to finish off the 300th episode, we've been doing gratitudes for majority of the podcast. We want to keep them going because they're super important to us. So, Dad, to finish off with, what are you grateful grateful for this week.

Yeah, look, I'm, I'm sure that this is just on the theme of our 300th, but, uh, when you and your brother Liam, uh, decided that we were going to start to do something like this, I was not that keen, to be fair. I'm, I'm not really, uh, a man of, uh, many words when it comes to sitting in front of a camera, and I just really didn't like it, to be honest. Um, but I'm really super grateful that you forced me to be outside of my comfort zone because deep down, if it was an opportunity for me to help other people, then I'll, I'll go out of my comfort zone and I'll, and I'll try to relay some of the experiences that I've had over my journey to help others be a better athlete. You know, whether it's triathlete, swimmer, marathon runner, cyclist, I don't care, as long as people are getting some value from this podcast. So I'm super grateful for you and your brother. For forcing me into something that I really wasn't keen to do.

And my gratitude is similar. I'm actually grateful for everything to do with this podcast, and specifically, you know, you the listener out there for giving us an audience. We, we honestly just started it to talk to our actual athletes, and then when we made it public, we started to gain a bit of an audience. And it's just nice to have a platform to get to do this on. And, and Dad and I get so much enjoyment out of, out of watching all the races around the world— triathlon, cycling, athletics. And getting to comment on them and, and build a bit of a community with you, uh, to, to talk about it. So I'm grateful for our listeners out there, and I'm grateful for you, Dad. Yeah, I guess we didn't expect it to, to get, um, to be anything, and 300 episodes later we're still enjoying it and loving it, and it's been awesome. So that's it for this episode. Thank you as always for listening, and a reminder of our giveaway: The Running Company Albert Park is giving one lucky winner a free pair of ASICS MegaBlasts, and we will ship it worldwide. So wherever you are in the world, share this 300th episode special on your social media, tag us, and we will DM the winner and get a free— these free pair of epic daily trainers that I've used in my own marathon prep to you. Thanks as always, and we'll see you on the next one.