How Grace Thek Finally Solved her Constant Injuries

All right, Grace, a very big warm welcome to the TriVelo Coaching Podcast. Thank you very much for joining us.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you guys.

Yeah, all good. We want to, um, we want to start by, by jumping into, uh, kind of the build you've had over the last couple of years. And, and you've really had a good run of, of momentum, uh, after a bit of an injury career, which we'll jump into. But, um, the last couple of seasons have just been phenomenal. You just keep getting better and better and climbing the ranks. So So tell us what's, what's really changed the last couple of years where you've been able to achieve this consistency and, and get such a good run of results?

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty happy to see kind of like a positive trajectory with my racing over the last years. And I think if I reflect on my whole career so far as a professional triathlete, I can see improvements every single year. And I think the main thing, I guess, over the last few years is just consistency and, um, building that foundation over many years. And, you know, with triathlon, things don't come overnight and takes lots of years of hard work. And I think maybe, yeah, the last few years I've seen that come to fruition a little bit more. And yeah, hopefully that can continue to go in an upward trajectory going forward.

As an experienced triathlete now, and you're not that old, but you're very experienced in the sport of triathlon, for the age group listener, that's such a good thing that you've just said. The building of the consistency over a period of time. How important do you really think that that is and being in your success just in the recent times, what you were doing, say, in 2015, you know, as a young girl, as a really good track runner? And, uh, yeah, how important has that been in your development?

Yeah, I think everyone says, you know, consistency is king, and I think that really is, um, even though it's cliché, it's very true. And I think, um, you know, with triathlon, there's so many elements to it. You know, you've got the swim, you've got the bike, you've got the run, you've got the transitions, you've got nutrition, nutrition, heat prep, and everything that goes into having a great performance. And I think there's constantly things you can be working on. And I think, yeah, as I said, nothing comes just overnight. It takes many years of preparation. So I, you know, obviously I come from a running background, so I've been running since I was 6 years old. I've been swimming since I was 6 years old. And I think that, you know, it's just an accumulation of muscle memory and, um, I guess being diligent with, um, sticking to a training plan. And I think that consistency is starting to pay off. And I think, as you alluded to, I have had a history of many running-related injuries, and I think having that consistency over the last few years, um, has really helped. And I, I guess I, I can jump into it now, but, um, I think it was the start of 2014. I was just constantly kind of plagued with little niggles, nothing major, but just things that would set me back where I wasn't running for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. And then I'd come back and I'd start running for a couple of weeks, and then something else would pop up. And I decided for 18 months just to completely just run, no sessions, just aerobic running. So Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, it was probably about March of 2014 and I would just run 3 times a week. I would run 2 1-hour runs and then 1 90-minute run. And I just wanted to get consistency to see if I could basically show up to start lines without the up and down trajectory that I, I had, um, with all my injuries. And so I think, um, I think maybe the the results that you're seeing in the last few years, um, could be a reflection of that consistency, particularly in my running. Um, so I didn't do any sessions. I haven't seen a track since I finished college in the US. I don't, I don't think I've been on one in over 14 years. Um, and if I have, it's been very brief. Uh, but I think that was the main thing in the last few years that has really helped me. And, um, it's really only the start of this year that I've started to add a session in each week back into my running. And I think, um, obviously that has helped with my running, my performances in Geelong and Oceanside, maybe not so much Texas. Um, but both of them I think were a reflection of adding that intensity back in. And so last year was kind of an intermediate year where I'd done about 18 months of just running, um, I started to add in strides into my running. So it wasn't so much a session, but I would do, you know, 6x15-second strides within my runs and, um, just adding a little bit of intensity just to get my legs moving a little faster. And obviously, 'cause I raced quite frequently last year, um, basically every training, uh, every race was somewhat of a, uh, a session, a threshold session on the run. Um, So yeah, I think that's probably maybe one of the big changes that I have made in the last few years that might be a contributing factor. But, um, at the start of last year, I also changed coaches. I've been with my coach for 10 years and we had a great relationship, um, but I just needed a new stimulus, a change, particularly as I was going to step up to the full distance. I thought, um, I just needed yeah, a different variety in my training. And, uh, obviously, yeah, with Challenge Roth last year and then trying to go more into full distance this year, I have obviously changed my training quite a bit to towards that. So that is, I guess, a change I've made in the last like 18 months.

Wow, I was going to ask, uh, you know, consistency is everything, but, but yeah, the results definitely seem to have just, just tipped over that edge of really up in that upper end. And so was there something specific that's changed? And, and a change of coach could definitely be one of those things. I want to dive into that, uh, shortly. But just taking it back to those track days and those college days, it takes a special kind of mindset, especially as a driven athlete, to have the patience to do something like what you did for, for 18 months and, and just strip it right back. Especially being an Australian going over to college for running, you know, and then having to— what was your mindset there? Because that's a pretty tough pill to swallow, and a lot of people would, would just give up or, or just keep the revolving cycle of, of train hard, injure, train hard, injure, because you're there for running, you know. So, so what was that mindset?

Yeah, obviously I love running. I like to run fast. But I think a part of it was when I was in college, I was injured 1 to 2 times every year. I had more stress fractures than I can count, basically, during my college career, and I loved it, but I think it gave me a kind of a, uh, a different mindset when it came to injury. I always adopted like the silver lining, you know, concept to everything has a silver lining. If I'm injured, I can focus on other things in my life, and I think being injured can be pretty disheartening, but I try to find the good in it, whether it's strengthening and other other component of the triathlon, or, um, dedicating more time back then in college to my studies or, um, to my friends. And I think, you know, I don't like to be injured, so I think having consistency where I was just able to run, um, it didn't really matter if I wasn't doing sessions. I think the mental aspect of not running can wear you down. So if you're just able to run, even if you're not integrating sessions, I was more than happy with that. And It was kind of something that came from within me, not so much any external, um, conversations, I guess, with coaches or podiatrists or physios or anything like that. It was kind of like, I think that this is what I need to be consistent, and I'd like to be able to get to start lines and not feel like, you know, I'm managing a niggle, or, you know, there's been many a start lines over the years where it's, I haven't run for 2 weeks beforehand, let's just roll the dice and see what's going to happen. And Um, I was kind of sick of that. And so, yeah, you know, obviously I had great results even with those niggles. It's— it was just really nice to, I guess, consistently, um, take grasp of my running program and kind of taking charge of it myself. So, um, yeah, I, I don't think it really bothered me too much. Uh, actually just love running. So running injury-free is the best.

The gratitude you have just to be able to run, isn't it? Uh, consistently over a period of, you know, 2, 3 years without having to take weeks off. And it's just music to the ears of our age group listeners because we absolutely push this concept to them that they don't need to do track sessions. And unfortunately, social media really, uh, directs people to— and even, you know, beginners, intermediate, and really elite athletes that we coach, and we have the whole spectrum, um, everybody keeps telling our coaches, why aren't I running hard track sessions? And this is just music to our ears to hear you say, yeah, you just don't need to do that. Um, you need to be every running each week.

And yeah, everyone can't do the 20x400s or whatever Christian Blummenfelt's doing, but I think, yeah, social media nowadays make it hard to believe that you can be good without doing these like hero sessions. So I think, um, yeah, if it's anything I can share with your listeners and the age groupers is if you can just consistently do it, you're going to get better. Yeah, it might take maybe a little bit longer, but it might take less time because you're not out with injuries constantly. So, um, yeah, definitely consistency over everything.

The irony, uh, Grace, I think, is you're an actual— for those who don't know, you're a physiotherapist, um, and, uh, you know, you of all people would understand the nature of your injury and probably how it, how it evolved and what to do about it, and yet you still find yourself getting injured. Um, yeah, how do you— the irony of that, what do you think?

Yeah, I think, I think being a physio is a bit of a blessing and a curse sometimes because you know a lot, but you're kind of in a little bit of denial when it comes to you. Like, oh, I didn't overdo it, but I think I always know whatever it is that's put me over the edge. Um, and yeah, I don't like to necessarily treat myself, so I, I have, um, very wise people in my corner who are physios and osteos, my coach as well, who are able to kind of guide me through. What's sensible and what's not. Um, I think when I first started out with triathlon back in 2015, just, um, doing the local 2xU races, I started triathlon and 2 months in I was trying to coach myself, and I realized that wasn't great. I need to be held accountable. I need to have someone overseeing it all. And I think the same is true with, uh, with physio. Uh, obviously I know what's going on most of the time. I'm able to manage it, but I think having someone overseeing it because you get a little bit clouded if you're too close to it. You need someone who's further back and who can tell you the harsh truths and, um, yeah, make you, uh, I guess knock some sense into you sometimes.

So just to clarify, uh, basically since 2014 when you left college and you, you took that step back, you've basically just been doing easy running for the last 10 years and, and basically no hard training in your sessions?

Um, the, the, that change came at the beginning of 2024. So, um, yeah, it was about, yeah, it was, yeah, about a year and a half or so of, um, that kind of change. So no, previously, um, I was adding intensity. I would, um, basically do 3 sessions a week of 3 runs a week. One would be a long ride. Long run, one would be a threshold run, and one would be shorter intervals. And I felt like, um, the intensity really helped with my speed, but it also meant that I was kind of up and down a little bit with injury. And it took me a while to realize that, um, just getting so consistent running under my belt would be the priority. So yeah, I guess from, uh, my college years, I had a lot of stress injuries, and then I didn't have so many between 2014 and 2024, but I did have Um, niggles that would come and go. So it was more musculoskeletal stuff. Um, hamstrings, calf, back. Um, yeah, it wasn't so much, um, uh, bone, um, injuries.

Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. Sorry, I got my years mixed up. I thought I heard 2014.

You get—

that's an exceptionally long time to just, just do easy running, even for, for a pro triathlete. But yeah, but that, it really shows, you know, you ran 2:53 at, at Roth last year, full Ironman distance, full distance debut, and then, and then a 3:03 at Texas, which you alluded to just then. You weren't as happy with, still an elite time. So you're running exceptionally well with, with, uh, not, not many hard, hard sessions. And this just proves what you were saying before, you know, it's not everyone has to do the Christian Blommerfeldt 20x400s to be running top-end times. And so what would you put that, put that down to, that, that ability to run? It's just, it's just the, the years accumulated plus the cross-training? How do you think you're running still so well with, with reduced running?

Yeah, I think that Um, as you said, yeah, consistency, but I think just muscle memory. I think I've done a lot of hard work over the years, um, in high school, college years. My body, you know, kind of remembers, uh, the pain of some of those sessions. And I think that, you know, this year I have made that change to doing one workout per week. Um, and I think that that has really shown in, you know, the first 2 races, at least the 70.3 races I've done. So, um, the sessions aren't particularly like hero sessions, but we've built them up slowly. So starting with something as simple as, you know, 1 minute on, maybe 3 minutes off, and then building up to, I think my longest was maybe 6 to 8 minute, um, intervals. Uh, so yeah, I, I think that's helped this year, but I think just the consistency has, um, has worked, um, in the last few years. And I think obviously the carryover in fitness and aerobic, um, nature of the swimming and the bike riding is helping. And I think when I was in college as a runner and I was in— injured so much, I ended up doing a lot of cross-training. So I swam with the squad, I, um, went to the gym, I was on the elliptical, I was bike riding. I kind of already made my transition before I even knew it to triathlon. And I actually always bounced back really quickly from doing the cross-training. So I think for me, the move to triathlon was kind of, um, already in play, I guess, in my college years. But I particularly enjoyed the fact that I can still run and not do it as much because I think when I was in college, it was around 90, maybe to 100 kilometers a week, and that was kind of my point of breaking. And I think I still wanted to run, so I moved to triathlon so I could still keep running but also work on my swim and bike as well and be more of a complete athlete.

Can you just take us into some of those, uh, sessions that you, uh, that you were doing in terms of paces? So you're doing maybe those 6 or 8 minute efforts. Were you doing, were you doing similar to 70.3 pace there, or 10K pace? Or when you're training for Roth, for example, were you doing a lot of marathon-type pace intervals. Yeah, give us a little bit of a glimpse into what that— those sessions might have looked like.

Yeah, of course. Um, I've got my TrainingPeaks up, so I'll have a quick look just so I'm not telling lies. But, um, I don't think that my, my sessions really got that fast, and they weren't as fast as 70.3 pace. Um, it was kind of more like sweet spot where I felt like I wasn't overextending, but it was comfortable. So, um, I'll have a look. Um, back in. Let's go back to February. Uh, so that was this particular session I did at the start of February, was 3-minute intervals. So I did 1, 2— I did 7 3 minutes with 2 minutes easy. Uh, the set pace was anywhere between 3:40 and 4 minutes was what my coach had.

And that's interesting, isn't it? Because at that, Geelong was the next race you were coming to. Uh, and just tell the listeners what pace you ran at Geelong?

Uh, I think I ran 3:43 pace, did I?

Exactly. And, uh, and yeah, that's kind of a good point for the listeners to hear, is, you know, even though you've got that pace range, you know, it's something similar to what you're going to do on race day. And, and for you to be doing that in training, it becomes automatic, doesn't it? Your brain just goes, oh yeah, I know this pace. And you were absolutely flying that day. That was one of the— one of your— you must have been very proud of that run. You know, Kat Matthews was just ahead of you there. And yeah, that would have been a great feeling, I'm sure, to be able to be in control of that race.

Yeah, for sure. I love racing in Geelong. I think, um, having an understanding of the course definitely plays to my advantage. But, um, also, as you mentioned, just, um, the practice in training, um, to run faster, or at least at— sorry, at race pace, is crucial. So yeah, this particular session, I think I hit most of the, um, 3-minute efforts about 3:45, so a little bit slower than what I did, um, on the day but that was back in February. So if I can pull up the one I did before, um, Geelong.

I love this live training peaks analysis.

Yeah, so 8 minutes was the furthest, the longest I, I, I did 5 by 8 minutes on March 5th, which I think was probably one of my last sessions, because then I started to build into Ironman running for Texas. So, um, yeah, I think, let's just see what I raced. Run in.

And 5 by 8 off, off, off a couple minutes recovery?

Yeah, they were about all about 3:43 to 3:48 paces, um, for those 8 minutes. So obviously the intervals got longer from 3 to 8 minutes over the span of a month. Um, but that was kind of a, yeah, a key session I was doing every week. So I think there was like 1 or 2 minutes increase in, um, distance, well, time, I guess, each, uh, each week per interval. But, um, yeah, so that's, yeah, kind of, um, the sessions. Well, the one session per week that I did, and then obviously I integrated, um, my long runs into that. And then during my easier runs that week, I'll either do a run off the bike after a long ride, or I would do like a 60-minute aerobic with strides. So those strides would be, you know, 6 to 8 by 15 seconds just to get the legs moving a little bit. So that was kind of maybe mainly, I guess, the speed work for the week, I guess, if you can put it like that. But yeah, I guess it's just a break— breaking up. Oh no, I was just saying, yeah, the strides were within the run, so it was just kind of to get the legs moving a little bit faster during the run. That was probably the fastest, um, kind of, um, pace I was running throughout that training block.

I was just gonna say, don't forget the impact of the races. Like, doing a half marathon in a race is really good training session. And, you know, you had Geelong, you had Oceanside, and, uh, and then, you know, obviously a marathon. So they're all building your resilience, isn't it? And that's the thing I wanted to ask you is, you know, just so the listeners can understand, the training load is the thing you're trying to build into the resilience of your body, isn't it? The durability of your running legs. Um, cardiovascular-wise, you're not really needing to be stimulated that much. It's really, can you allow your body to absorb the running load, uh, at the back end of a race. And, and so, so you don't really need to run that fast. Um, uh, of course Christian Blumenfeld and the top of the, the, the guys at the front end of their field, they've been doing that, that style that you've been now doing for 18 months. They've been doing that since, for him, 2015. It's like he's been doing that style for a long time. That's why he can do 20 by 400. Um, yeah, could you just give us a brief thought of what you think about that?

Yeah, well, it sounds like I'm, I'm talking to my coach almost when I'm, uh, when you were, uh, asking me about that, because that's kind of been the focus the last 18 months is building durability. And I think, um, historically I've always had a relatively, uh, low volume, maybe higher intensity mentality when it comes to training, but making that switch to full distance and With my focus on Challenge Roth last year, we really had to kind of change that to see if I could be a more durable athlete. And so, um, with my new coach, uh, we really implemented, um, longer runs that really scared me but were just cruisy paces. We, uh, but we, we were kind of careful with how we implemented it. Um, we would try and do it under fatigue but try not to make it, uh, too much where I was gonna tip over the edge. So, um, I guess It's kind of pretty, uh, consistent with the build, um, to Texas this year, but we would do, um, a hard session in the pool on one day and, uh, then the next day we'd do a long ride. So anywhere between 5 and 7 hours, um, with the run off the bike anywhere between 20 minutes and 40 minutes. Um, that was all just easy. Um, but I like to run. I feel great running off the bike. I know that's quite unusual for a lot of people, but I feel like I run better off the bike than if I was just to go and run. And so I don't even look at my watch and I tend, tended to be running more, uh, Ironman pace on those particular run off the bikes. And then the next morning I would do, um, a long run. So, you know, starting at 90 minutes at the start of the, or even shorter at the start of the year, and then building up to 2.5 hours was my longest long run before. Um, Challenge Roth and also before Texas. And so I think the idea of adding intensity and volume at the same time would probably put me over the edge and make me more injury prone. But we've really focused, and that was kind of why with my, um, starting with a new coach last year, we took it quite conservatively and we decided not to add any sessions in. And I think we've may have, may have done 5 sessions for all of last year, um, but most of it was just easy running. But it was building that durability and making me more resilient so that when I was, you know, uh, 30K deep into the marathon, um, I was used to the fatigue in my legs and, um, it would, you know, carry me home for the last, you know, 12K. So I think that really helped for Challenge Roth, and we obviously tried to replicate that, uh, but starting with higher volume this year because last year making the switch to the new coach, we didn't want to go straight into high volume straight away. We weren't sure how my body was going to respond, but having kind of a year under, um, my new coach Chris and building that resilience, we really hit the ground running at the start of this year. And so weeks that seemed quite daunting to me, uh, which would've seemed quite daunting last year at the start of the year, felt quite, um, familiar or comfortable, I guess, having already, um, built up the volume last year. So, um, yeah, a couple of over 25-hour weeks for me would've seemed almost impossible a few years ago, but stringing 3 together and feeling great and strong and healthy, um, for the build towards Ironman. Texas was, yeah, amazing. So I think, yeah, I really think durability, um, is crucial because, you know, I think at the end of the race, not only do you, your body need to be durable, but I think mentally as well. And so going through these long, hard days mentally helps you, um, understand kind of the pain that you're gonna feel on race day.

Can you give us an example of, uh, the exact volume that you were doing? So that's a great breakdown of some of the runs and, and building up the volume slowly, but yeah, in terms of weekly running volume, especially back in February, and then the build towards, uh, Texas. What were you getting up to? And, and yeah, how many runs is that actually averaging per week?

Yeah, so I can look back. Um, so if we look, second week of January I was at 35.7 kilometers, and then it went down to 29.5, up to 42.3, 53.8, 59.7, then I had a recovery week, so it was 36.8, and then up to 66.6, 76.4, 67.9, and then a recovery week where he dropped that back to 42. And then, then I went into, um, the races. So, um, I, it obviously I did, um, Geelong and then I did Oceanside.

Mm-hmm.

And then I had 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 weeks, I think, before 3 weeks, 3 or 4 weeks, 3 weeks between, um, Oceanside and Texas. And so that was kind of a balancing act of recovering from the 2 races and then getting a little bit of intensity in, um, a couple of long rides, long runs before. Texas. So, um, yeah, it maybe wasn't the— it was a good preparation in terms of I got some solid, um, training days in with Geelong and Oceanside. It meant that I didn't have to do brick sessions by myself in the lead-up to Texas. I could do them in a race situation. Um, but yeah, I think I was definitely feeling maybe a little stronger leading into Geelong and then a little bit, a little bit tired, I guess, leading into Texas. I think that the two back-to-back races, um, took a bit more out of me than I had thought that they would. And I had a couple of days where I was a bit under the weather, so it wasn't maybe the most ideal preparation leading into Texas as it would've been if Texas was the weekend of Geelong. But, um, having said that, I was, yeah, super happy with how that went. So that was kind of my progression with the run. We tried to do like a 3-week on, 1-week recovery deload. Um, blocks throughout, um, the off-season.

It's interesting, you've always been a really good runner, and, uh, that's been one of your really good strengths over the, over the years of, of being an athlete. Um, did you do anything similar in volume, say, in 2020, 2021, 2022? Were you running— because you, it looks like the last sort of 6, 3 or 4 or 5 months, you've been running 50, 60, 70, up to 80K weeks. What were you doing when you were doing that, uh, low volume, high intensity? What did that look like compared to now, and what do you think the difference is?

Yeah, I would say that the, um, I could probably pull it up, but during COVID um, it was more just about getting out for mental health, and, um, it was probably less about a structured, um, program. It was more just about running for fun and enjoying it because I wasn't sure when the next races would be. But I think in you know, I had some pretty decent weeks of training between 2021 and 2024, but it was probably more of a, a little bit more of a roller coaster in terms of I would have some top weeks and then I'd maybe have a niggle and have to drop down rather than having a scheduled deload week like I have in the last, um, couple of months where it's an intentional deload week rather than I'm out for a couple of days because I'm managing a hamstring or a calf or, or something like that. So I'm not sure. I definitely am running higher volume than I've ever done in my triathlon career. But I would say that some of my weeks, particularly at the start of this year, weren't too different volume-wise. Previously, uh, I was, you know, doing 3 to 4 runs. Um, but there would be a bit more intensity in those runs and it would mean that some weeks I would be a little, uh, little lower or completely off because of injuries.

We're loving hearing your program and, uh, it's very similar to what we, uh, aspire to give our athletes. And, you know, we coach a couple of pro athletes, and we also coach beginners. And, and it's so refreshing to hear your summary of what you're actually doing, uh, just so that our athletes hear that someone at the top of their game like you are doesn't have to be training with such intensity as a runner. Because clearly on the bike, you're getting such, you know, such intensity there as well, because you can really push the body more than you can as a runner because the risk is so much less. But do you think the the goal that you had for, you know, doing the recent Ironman races, building your running volume really helped your 70.3 running as well, even though you're specifically trying to reach good, good podiums on the 70.3, but, you know, you're trying to go towards Ironman. How impactful has that been doing that longer volume for success as a runner again and in the 70.3s?

Yeah, definitely. I think the— my intention this year was to focus on obviously qualifying for Kona and my key race was Ironman Texas. So throughout my whole off-season from basically Jan 1st until Geelong, the focus was primarily on the long distance and the training was tailored towards that. And for me, you know, it was a shift in what I had previously done in any off-season before where it was higher volume. And I think that, um, managing that and not adding too much intensity, but a little bit. It was kind of the combination of that that helped with the 70.3 run performances. Um, but I, yeah, as, as we've mentioned many times, I think it was just the, the consistency, but I definitely think the volume has helped with the 70.3 and I've noticed it probably the most with my bike riding. Um, obviously most of my sessions were tailored towards Ironman race pace and obviously we've added in some VO2 work and, um, and some threshold work. But I think the bulk of, um, you know, basically a month before Geelong, we went full focus on Ironman Texas. And so I think the carryover with higher volume definitely helped with the shorter races. Um, I guess it was unintentional, but at the same time, it's hard not to do better, I think, if you're training a little bit more and being able to manage the load. Obviously, higher load doesn't necessarily correlate to better performances, but, um, you know, with my coach and managing it well, it worked for us. Um, I know that, you know, especially with age groupers who are probably listening, don't necessarily have the time to bank 25+ hours a week when they've got families and full-time jobs and Um, I have, uh, the luxury, I guess, of having this as my job and I have time to nap in the afternoons and I have time to recover and space out my sessions. And I think, um, I, yeah, I'm not advocating for higher volume equals better over the 70.3 distance, but for me, um, and my background, my history, um, and I guess my open communication with my coach, we were able to um, have that translate to good 70.3 races.

Um, we're absolutely loving hearing this, uh, for many reasons, but one of the main ones for me is it just goes against all the noise right now. Everything is just about more, more, more, better, better, better. You know, you've got to be doing what a very few select few, uh, of top pros are doing— bulk hours, 40-hour training weeks. We're hearing you're not going to be competitive unless you're doing 40-hour weeks. Like, I just, I get so sick of hearing that noise personally, because that is working for some people, but there's just no way that that is the only way to be at the top of your game like you are. And so to hear that, you know, you have been averaging 40 to 60 kilometer weeks a lot of the time, especially last year, and to be running so well and to be getting the results you are is just a great testament to the range of type of program you can do. And now going up to 60 to 80 kilometer weeks and extending that, uh, is obviously been good for you. But, uh, super curious, you know, what, what was your, um, longest run leading into Texas? Uh, what did you actually get up to? Um, and, and what was your longest run at kind of, uh, any sort of pace or marathon pace, or was it all quite easy?

Uh, yeah, so the longest I did was 2.5 hours, which I just try and find when I actually did that. It was before— I don't think I did that between the 70.3 race block and the Texas race. I think it's the longest run I did was Whilst you're looking at that, bear with me for a sec.

Yeah, while you're looking at that, a lot of the listeners would, would like to know kind of what pace you did. And so to run a 3-hour marathon, you need to be running it around that 4:12 to 4:15 kilometer pace. So it'd be interesting to see, you know, you were saying a lot of those easy runs, you, you weren't even looking at your watch yet, you were running, you know, uh, somewhere around that 4 to 4:15 pace anyway in those easy runs, which is also interesting. Have you found You found that long run?

Yeah, so I did one long run which was 2 hours between Oceanside and, um, Texas, and that was 4:40 pace. So that was just, um, an easy jog for me. Um, not overly fast, to be honest. Most of my long runs around kind of 4:30 to 5-minute pace. The, I guess, the more Ironman-specific run, which was unintentional faster runs were the runs off the bike, so they were only 20 to 40 minutes. Um, and so yeah, those, those weren't planned, I guess. Um, the longest run I did was 2 and a half hours, which was on the 8th of March. So I think that was a couple of weeks before Geelong. And I did, did I add some intensity in there? Let me have a look. My average for that particular run was 4:40. So I don't think there was much— there was any intensity in that. There was one I remember doing, um, a couple of weeks. It might have just been, uh, 2 hours, but I did add— oh yeah, uh, here I did 2-hour and 10-minute run with a faster finish to it. So I ran 30 minutes around 4:03 pace, and then I did 30— oh, uh, about— it must have been about an hour then. The last hour was, um, around Ironman pace, so I think it was about 4:05. I'm not great when it comes to, um, uh, yeah, sorry, I'm just not great when it comes to figuring out what my actual pace was using the, um, uh, TrainingPeaks. Oh yeah, I can I could.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, you're looking at your paces and I want to hear them, but when you— what's your mindset into going into these runs? Is the mindset just, just go easy, not look at my watch? Have you got kilometer splits going? What's, what's going through your head when you start the run?

Yeah, so it depends if it's like a long run. So this particular one was 2 hours with 30 minutes at 4:13 pace and then 30 minutes at 4:07, and that was like kind of the last hour of the run. Um, I guess a little, a little bit nervous, I think. I get more nervous for run sessions than any other session I do, and it's probably because I don't do them that often and probably because I have high expectations that I wanna hit a particular pace. And I think my coach has kind of understood me over the last year and a half or so, and he's, he's set kind of quite a wide range of which to hit. So it allows me to go a little bit faster if I'm feeling it, and it also allows me to run a little bit slower. So. Um, for all of those running interval sessions, you know, the 2 or 3 minute to the 8 minute, um, intervals. Yeah, the, the pace was always the same. It was between 3:39 and 4 minutes, and I kind of hit 3:45-ish for all of those intervals. Um, obviously it became harder with longer duration, um, each week. But in terms of the long runs, I think my mindset going into them is Relaxed, easy, and making sure that I practice my race nutrition. I've been really bad about, um, nutrition, uh, for many years. In fact, I, I didn't really start taking nutrition during a session until last year, and that might be one of the reasons I've seen maybe a bit of an improvement in the last year and a half in terms of my racing, because I've fueled better in my training and I've gotten more out of it. And it wasn't because I didn't feel like I needed it previously. I think my training has changed. So, you know, up until the start of last year, most of my training session, uh, volume would be between 15 and 20 hours a week, probably averaging closer to like 17, 18. And a lot of my sessions were much shorter. So when we were on the bike, my long run was probably 3 to 3 and a half hours. Um, and that was easy aerobic. And then if I had intervals, it was probably a 90-minute to 2-hour session and I'd fuel really well beforehand. I can just basically jump on the bike straight after breakfast and don't have any issues with my gut. And then I'd fuel immediately after. I might take a banana or something. Um, but I didn't really dial in race nutrition and that was the key change I think I made last year with the focus being on Challenge Roth is I really need to better fuel myself in sessions. And because the sessions were longer and the weeks were longer, um, I think it was super important. And what I noticed the most with this change in, in nutrition was, you know, well, for starters, I probably wouldn't have been able to go out and do a 7-hour bike ride without, uh, nutrition or with like 1 or 2 bananas. I needed to fuel myself well, but I felt like the next day, um, you know, I guess my whole triathlon career, I've always had a long ride one day and then followed it the next day with the long run, which I think is pretty standard across the board. But I always felt a little bit tired and down and not feeling great for the long run. Um, and even though I increased my bike riding to, I think my longest ride last year was 7 hours, and then I had, I think, a 2-hour ride, run the next day, and I felt great on the 2-hour run. I felt like I hadn't done a big day the day before, which was 7 hours plus a 30-minute run off the bike. And then if I had contemplated that a few years ago, I think with the lack of nutrition taken, that would've really, um, been a terrible run. So that was, I guess that's one change as well that we didn't touch on earlier, but, um, along with the consistency is just the focus on nutrition. And so as you, back to the question you asked, when I was heading out for these longer runs, the mentality was just run relaxed, enjoy it. I like running, so going for a long run, um, feels great. And I think because we were quite, um, gradual with the increase that it didn't feel too overwhelming. Like a 2.5-hour run on my schedule a few years ago would have really freaked me out, but the fact that we just built up to it basically over the year, but, um, yeah, starting from probably 60 minutes, 70 minutes, 80 minutes, 90 minutes, and all the way up to 2.5 hours felt more manageable. But yeah, nutrition and dialing that in for the long run to know what my body would tolerate when it came to race day was really important. And I think a key change I made this year that I've never done before is I started racing with caffeine. So I actually never raced with caffeine previously. Um, Geelong was my first race with caffeine. Um, it was only maybe 2 years ago that I started having coffee before a race. Before that, I would take no caffeine at all on race day. Um, and that's something that I feel like was maybe low-hanging fruit that I could have utilized to, um, help me boost my energy, particularly with the longer stuff. So that was a change in the racing this year that I made from a nutrition standpoint as well.

Wow. 2 really big changes there, uh, that, that make a lot of sense compounding with the consistency that's, uh, Yeah, the, the nutrition side of things, it makes a lot of sense that going to the longer distance force you to address that. So in sessions now, you're fueling beforehand. What are you having in sessions? Are you having a carb drink? You're having gels? Are you having food? Especially in your long runs, what are you taking with you?

Yeah, so it depends on the duration of the session and what intensity is within the session, um, and whether it's a bike or run session. Uh, on the bike, for the longer rides, I'll take a mixture of things. So, uh, It depends also whether it's, uh, a session that's a race simulation session. So if that, if that's the case, I'll take what I'm gonna be taking on race day, which is a combination of carb mix and gels. Um, if it's just an easier but longer ride, I'll also combine that with maybe some real food, whether that's banana, um, or, or a bar or, um, something more solid. Um, and then when it comes to the run, I'll— I won't take carb mix, I'll just take gels. So I usually put them in a flask and add some water so they're a little bit more liquid, less viscous, and I'll carry them in my Nerd Belt or in my hand depending on the run. But yeah, I think it really depends, you know. If it's just an easy 90-minute, I probably will just use carb mix. I won't necessarily use gels for that, but if it goes longer, I need the variety. If it is a key race simulation, I will take, uh, beetroot juice. I've started that this year, um, before a race, uh, and before a hard training. Um, I take Modex as well, so that's something that I've taken for the last 2+ years. Um, that's just part of my morning ritual, and then breakfast will vary, but usually if I'm training, it will just be oatmeal with some fruit. Luckily my gut tolerates, um, food relatively close before a run or a bike ride or even a swim. It's not the same meal that I would have before a race. Before a race, I just take toast, white bread, with some Vegemite, another with peanut butter and maybe a banana. But when I'm Training, I probably am a little bit more flexible with what I eat beforehand. And then following a session, I'll try and get, uh, protein in within a 30-minute window of finishing a session. And again, if it's a harder session, I'll also use like cherry tart juice, which again is something new as of this year.

When you've been doing those, uh, races, does your nutrition, uh, change between 70.3 and, uh, the Ironman, for example? Uh, when you raced Roth, did you adjust anything for Texas, uh, in the Ironman? And did you adjust anything between, say, Geelong and Oceanside for the 70.3? Or yeah, give us a glimpse of what you were consuming.

Yeah, so I was lucky enough to be supported by a brand basically from 2018 until the end of last year, and I was using their products during every single race. I had it pretty much dialed in. With 70.3 racing and T100 races. And then, um, again, I adjusted that towards Challenge Roth, but this year I'm partnered with AidStation and so I'm using a whole range of different products. Um, so I'll have, you know, different brands on the bike. I'm using, um, Precision Fuel and Hydration at the moment is what I'm liking for the bike. And then I get onto the run, I'm using Pure Performance. Um, in terms of this year, the changes, obviously I need a lot more carbs for the full distance. Um, In terms of grams, I would probably say that it's pretty similar between 90 and 100 grams per hour, um, on the bike leg. Um, across, yeah, it doesn't really matter if it's the 70.3 or the full, as long as I've got enough, um, nutrition for however long I'm gonna be on the bike. And then, um, the run, I've bumped it up, um, to about 70 to 80 grams on the run. Mm-hmm. Um, give or take. Um, and then I usually supplement, um, electrolytes at the aid station. So, um, I really like Pure Performance at the moment because they have, um, electrolytes within it. And so I don't necessarily have to rely on the aid stations on the run courses, but because I've been training and I race on the bike with Precision, I've been using their fuel as well. Uh, their electrolytes on the run in Texas, which was kind of the first time I relied on that. Um, because of the heat and humidity. Was probably less hot, but still humid, um, for this particular race. But yeah, overall, um, I don't think the grams change necessarily, but depending on the 70.3 or the full, but again, I haven't raced enough over the full to know. Um, so far my stomach tolerates that high level of, well, that level of carbs for me. Uh, I haven't really pushed it to go further into the 100-gram-plus territory, which I know other athletes are taking on. But I also consider that I'm, I'm not overly large. I'm not a bigger athlete. I'm, I'm pretty small. And so I, uh, I'm not entirely sure what my metabolic rate is, but I feel like, um, 100 for my size is still a decent amount of carbs.

Absolutely. On all that, I, I really want to hear, uh, your review of, of Ironman Texas. It was your second full distance event, a fantastic 5th place. Again, a great run of 3:03, but, but 10 minutes slower than what you were able to do at Roth, for example. So I know, I think you probably feel like you left a bit on the table, but I'm keen to hear, yeah, what was your race review and how did the nutrition play out? And at a pretty stacked field with 2 world champions ahead of you, uh, yeah, what was your review of Ironman Texas? How did it all play out?

Yeah, overall I was pretty happy with my performance in Texas. My key goal for the race was to tick off the Kona qualification box and I ticked that off. So that was kind of the main, main goal. Um, obviously I wanted to string together a race that I knew I was capable of, um, and a reflection of the training. And I think over the swim and bike, I executed and performed pretty well when it came to, um, my pace, the power, the people I was riding with. And, um, and then the run obviously let me down a little bit, but If we start with the swim, you know, I had a pretty good start. The, uh, it wasn't an overly big field even though it was a strong field, so I felt like there wasn't too much, um, washing machine, um, antics at the start of the swim leg. I got some pretty free water. Um, unfortunately I didn't make that front group, but I hadn't really expected to make that front group, so I kind of settled into a pace and, um, couldn't really see anyone beside me and It turns out there were some people on my feet that, um, uh, it was a, a cat train that followed with basically the whole field, uh, or a large chunk of, um, athletes behind that. So, um, about halfway to the first turnaround buoy, I was kind of leading out and then cat passed and I jumped on the train and, um, yeah, it was, it felt like a pretty comfortable swim for me. I didn't feel like I was necessarily overexerting myself, but that was kind of a strategy going in because I know it's a long day ahead. And, um, you know, trying to take the lead and push the pace early on was not really an advantage for me. So I got out in, um, a good group with obviously Kat and Sylvie that— who I knew would, you know, um, just jump on their bike and wave goodbye. Um, but I was pretty excited to be jumping onto the bike with Jackie Herring because, um, I felt like we'd be pretty good allies, and I felt like we were on the bike. In fact, a few days beforehand, she, uh, saw me in the expo and she's like, so what are we gonna do? What's our race plan for, uh, the race? And so we had, I guess, a discussion beforehand about it's, you know, if we were together, whether and how we would work together, particularly on the run. But on the bike, it was great. I think I pushed the pace a fair bit on the first out and back stretch of the highway, and then she came past me and was like, oh, I'm not feeling so good in the legs. And she took some of the, the time, and we went back and forth a little bit. And then I struggled probably in the last 40K of the ride, and so I was kind of hanging on for, for dear life. And there was quite a lot of congestion on the last lap of the, um, the bike leg just with age groupers. And it's not an overly wide, um, lane that they put us in. So it was kind of just, um, dodging people, um, and staying somewhat in connection with Jackie, who tended to, um, uh, push on the pace a little bit and, um, But yeah, we over— overall got into transition together, decided we would run together and just see how it would go. Um, my plan was to run, um, 4:10 to 4:15 pace cuz I knew that the humidity could get me in the back half of the race. And we started out, I think, with a 3:44 first kilometer. Um, and then we settled into probably 4:01, 4:02 pace for the first lap, which was about, you know, 10, 12K, and that felt really comfortable. We were, we were chatting. Um, it felt like just kind of a, a long run with a friend. And then it just hit me. It, it hit me basically when we were starting the second lap and it was a grind to get to the finishing line. Um, at times I was questioning what I was doing, but I knew that this was a great opportunity to try and get a Kona qualification and, um, I wasn't gonna DNF, so I just kind of pushed through the pace and, uh, managed to, uh, pick, uh, pick off, um, Hannah, uh, Berry, who was having a hard day as well. And, um, you know, obviously on the back of Ironman New Zealand, um, to race two Ironmans so close together, I take my hat off to her. And yeah, at the end, uh, It was funny, it was maybe 3K from the end and my coach and my husband were on the side and I said, you know, am I good? Like pointing backwards. And they were like, you can't afford to slow down. And I was like, oh no, someone's coming to get me. And it was Sarah Svensson. And I realized, yeah, that those last 3K, I really have to pick up the pace because, uh, they weren't gonna try and scare me, but I knew that she was running pretty hard, so. Um, crossed the line and managed to stay ahead, but it was definitely, um, a faster last 3K than I had anticipated. But yeah, overall I was pretty happy. My, yeah, swim was decent. The bike was prob a, a higher power than I pushed in Roth last year, and I was really happy with, um, I think it was the fastest, um, bike I'd ever done in a race, including 70.3 races. Mm-hmm. So Obviously it was a very fast course, so it leans into being, you know, fast overall. But yeah, I was pretty happy with my bike ride and then obviously the run let me down the last 2 laps. But, um, yeah, my main objective was ticked off and I was happy enough with that. So hopefully, um, yeah, a little bit more heat preparation, humidity preparation going into Kona will be warranted, I think. That was probably an area that I didn't work on as much in the last few weeks between Oceanside and Texas because I was a little bit under the weather at times and I was also recovering from Oceanside. So adding in, um, the impact of heat training, um, obviously that has to be done carefully and I, you know, uh, I'd neglect— I didn't do some of my heat training because I felt like it was going to put me in the well. So, um, yeah, that's an area I can improve on. But I definitely think, um, yeah, hopefully I can string together a better Ironman marathon next time I hit a start line.

Well, I just, as a coach's summary from, uh, from listening to your, your summary, it's, uh, it's absolutely fascinating. Um, you know, you sort of give a little bit more on the bike and you may pay a little bit of a penalty in the run. You know, which one is a better outcome? It's really a fine line at the professional level. As an age group age grouper, you shouldn't be thinking like that at all. You should be just staying disciplined and staying in your ranges. But, but as a pro, you're trying to race the race. So, so I love the fact that, you know, you improved your bike. Obviously, it's a faster course and you can't compare two courses, but, but it is interesting that your goal was 4:15s, 4:10s, 4:05s, yet you started at 3:50s and you felt great. And we hear that a lot from, from the age groupers. Yes, coach, but I felt so good. And, and then all of a sudden at 25K, you don't feel so good. And, and how much impact do you think your pacing strategy, uh, impacted your ability to be as durable as you wanted to in the back half? And obviously the difference between Roth and, uh, Texas was the heat. And so there's a couple of things being thrown at you here— your strategy for pacing and the impact that the heat has. You know, tell, tell us a little bit about what you think in hindsight about your strategy for the pacing you selected, because knowing you ran 2:53 at Roth, that's around 4:03 pace, um, you know, just, just over 4-minute K pace. And so your expectations would be that I can do this, I've done it before. Um, so it's not, it's not unfair to say that, you know, I should be starting around 4 or, you know, but to run 3:50 for the first K, it does have an impact, doesn't it?

Yeah, it certainly does. And I think, um, obviously my training had gone really well and better than it had leading into Challenge Roth, so I had, I guess, high expectations that I could run at least as fast, if not faster. Um, meant, uh, I guess myself— my coach, on the other hand, wanted a more conservative approach given that, um, there was the element of heat and humidity that could impact, and obviously you have to change your pace depending on, on those factors. Um, yeah, it would have been nice to run a 2:53 on that course because it would've landed me maybe on the podium, I think. Um, but in, yeah, in hindsight, I think going out with Jackie and, um, feeding off each other in the first lap may have, uh, jeopardized my race. But at the same time, mentally, it was really nice to be able to get one lap, um, of the course done with company and then just focus on the back two laps. Um, by myself, I think had I gone out 4:10, I still possibly could have had the same result where I slowed down and therefore I probably would've been passed by Sarah Svensk, um, in the back lap. And so it's hard to say. It's, you know, I guess it's, it's easy to say, oh, if I had to run slower and more conservative, maybe I could have negative split the run. I felt like Challenge Roth, I'm not sure if I actually negative split, but I felt so strong in those last 5. To 7 kilometers, like probably the strongest I felt the entire run. And I think a part of that is just the energy on the side of the road. The fact that we went from the canals, which are quite a slow surface, to the road. But I just felt amazing in those last, say, 7K of the Challenge Roth. So it was quite a contrast to really feel absolutely shocking in the last 7K or even longer, the last 30K basically of of Texas. So, uh, yeah, I guess my learning from it would be to stick to my race plan. Um, but you know, sometimes you have to risk it a little bit. I think in Challenge Roth, my plan was to go out 4:15 pace and I went out 4:08 pace, and I think that was what I stuck at for the whole race. And I took maybe a risk with this particular Texas race and it didn't pay off, but I think for me, there's a lack of experience. You know, as Jackie and I were running, she said, oh, this is your first Ironman-branded race? And I was like, yeah, it's my second Ironman. And I said, how many have you done? And she's like, oh, this is— I think she said her 37th, or at least in her 30, uh, a number of Ironman races. And so obviously she has a lot of experience under her belt, and I haven't gained that experience over the distance. And it's something that each race gives me some experience points, and I can, I guess, use the lessons. And yeah, I guess the key lesson is maybe stick a little bit more to my plan and see if I can come home stronger in the last half. And I actually did that pretty well in Geelong and Oceanside. I think, uh, it might not have necessarily— it might not necessarily have been negative split, but it was at least a similar split from the first half and the back half. So I didn't lose much, which I think probably contributes to the training that I had done, um, to make me more durable for longer. But I think with the Ironman, you know, it's unknown territory really beyond like 30K. Uh, anything could happen the last kind of 12K. And, you know, my long runs went beyond 30K. So, um, at that point it's, yeah, it's a mix of pacing but also just the dynamics. Maybe I did go out a little bit too hard on the bike. Um, You know, it was, I did stick on the bike to the power that I had done in training and that I had planned to execute on race day, probably the higher end of it, but it was still within that target zone. So it wasn't like I, you know, ripped a 70.3 power pace over the full and then really paid for it on the run. It was just a matter of, um, yeah, probably the humidity getting to me. I was really thirsty actually. Um, I probably didn't drink enough on the bike and when I got to the run, Every aid station, I just wanted cups and cups of water. I was so thirsty. And that was probably, um, in hindsight, an indication that, you know, I need to work a little bit more on my hydration. I think my nutrition was fine, but I think I needed more volume, particularly with the humidity of the, the race.

Your, uh, your mindset going into the last 3 or 4K when you know that your position for Kona is up for grabs now and you've got someone running you down. Isn't it amazing how you're in this almost dream world of just finishing the event, all of a sudden having to change your mindset to, oh no, I actually have to race? Did you look back at those last 3 or 4K? Were you— did you pick the pace up or did you hold the pace? Or yeah, what happened there at the end?

Pretty sure I did pick up the pace those last, uh, 3K. Um, it wasn't dramatic, but I knew that I had to do something. And I was lucky I'd taken a caffeine gel probably 20, 30 minutes before this point. So it really hit me at the right time. Um, but yeah, I definitely think the last few k of the run was, um, faster. I can see on this TrainingPeaks, I can bring it up, but, um, yeah, the last, the effort was harder than what you were doing. Uh, so what would it have that been? Let me see, from the last 20— the last 20 minutes was— there was definitely a jump up. I don't have the breakdown of it. I'm actually so bad at using TrainingPeaks to analyze because I usually just use the app on my watch.

Um, I'm sure the perceived exertion would have been, uh, you know, don't underestimate the perceived exertion is relevant. And if, if you're actually making an effort, sometimes it doesn't correlate to you seeing the numbers in TrainingPeaks. Um, you could actually be running the same pace, but had you not lifted your perceived efforts, you could have actually been going 2 or 3 seconds per km slower at the end. But, but yeah, exactly. It does show you though, your mindset, you know, why wasn't I thinking like that 8 km out? Or, you know, and why didn't I think to, to try to concentrate a bit more? Do you think much about what's happening in the race? Are you— yeah, the Ironman is a long race. There's a lot of time to be spent depth in thought about what is happening. Give us a little glimpse into your mindset at the— when you know you weren't running the way you wanted to, what was your thought process?

Yeah, it definitely was hard because obviously running's my favorite and it's usually my strength, and I think it let me down the most in the Texas race. But I think at the end of the day, it was just one foot in front of the other, get to the next aid station and take on, um, you know, hydration, um, pour water over my head, try and cool myself down, and then Yeah, it was, you know, aid station by aid station, kilometer by kilometer, trying to just tick off, um, each, each kilometer as they come. And I think mentally I could see that I was— well, I heard I was closing the gap to Hannah, and I could see that I was closing the gap. And so once I passed her, I thought, okay, maybe I'm good in this position. But then once I heard with 3K to go that, um, Sarah was closing in and closing in quickly, um, so yeah, definitely you have to pull something out. And I think, I think that I'm, from what, from the little experience I have, I think what I do know is that the Ironman Marathon really is a mental battle, um, particularly at the end. So I'm just staying in the game and I think, as I said, just ticking off the kilometers and, um, trying not to let anything negative get into your head. And I mean, that's easier said than done cuz I think we can we all retire from the sport maybe at least once in a race. But I think actually one thing that I— one thing, it was at the end of the second lap before the final lap, I saw Kat Matthews on the side of the course and she was cheering us on, and she gave me a huge cheer, and I kind of gave her the eyes like, oh, it's this is hard. And she's like, it's not supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be hard. And I think, um, that kind of mentality got me through that last lap of the run. And, um, there's— there was a song on the radio a few days before, and it's, um, I don't know who it's by, but it's called— it's, it's like, Hurt So Good. And, um, I kind of— that last lap, in my mind, I was like, I get to do this, you know, um, this is my job. You know, this is a great job, and yet it hurts. But once I get to the finishing line, then I can just sit down. I know that I've got a week completely of training, and so I need to make the most of this. I need to get to the line. Luckily, I knew that there was a few more Kona slots after Sarah, so even if she did pass me, which I don't know if that ever came across my mind, but, um, yeah, I knew that I had some security when it came to the Kona slot as long as I could make it to the finishing line and not you know, have to really walk for too long. Um, but yeah, I think the mentality that I get to do that, I, you know, this is a job, and although it's hard, it's, it's fun and it's a privilege. So, um, yeah, I think seeing Kat on the course and restilling that in my mind really helped that last lap.

Such a brilliant insight. And, and yeah, let's put it in perspective because you're speaking like a true athlete where you're, you're doing a good analysis, you're looking for improvement, but you can always qualify for Kona. Your 5th place at your debut Ironman-branded Ironman outside of Roth, you know, in a humid and tough environment with 2 world champions in front of you. And as you said, someone like Jackie who's so experienced, uh, it was a really incredible race. And despite all that, you know, you've still got room for improvement, which is great. But, uh, yeah, putting that in perspective, you've qualified for Kona, and so a huge congratulations on that. And, and yeah, it's really— it capped off kind of a couple of really great races. Just so awesome to hear. And, uh, thinking on the negative split side, you know, it's— it's— we love to talk about negative split, uh, on this podcast, but what we often mean and what a lot of athletes mistake us by is we're not talking about, you know, actually lifting the pace to an incredible gap in the back end of a marathon or, or half marathon. Sometimes negative split, we're just referring to the, the holding pace, you know, and being able to just be strong enough to hold pace. And exactly, yeah, unless you're Sebastian Solway, who who ran a 13:30 last 5K at the London Marathon, where he's seriously negative splitting.

That's crazy.

He's an absolute outlier. Yeah, but look, the fine line between— we really always want to hammer this point home— is we get to speak to pro athletes like yourself where you have to race the race. And we had our athlete Roland Krantok race Western Sydney last week and have a PB race. And I asked him after, you know, how did you find it? You know, give you a bit of analysis. And he said, oh, I, I left— I think I left a few spots on the table by not racing enough. And he's had our, you know, our Travelo coaching kind of hat on where you really stick to your numbers and stick to your race plan. But he said some guys came past me and I chose to stick to my numbers rather than race. And I really, by the end of the race, I felt like I just left a bit on the table and I probably could have stuck with them. And that's a really important point that you're bringing up here is, is, uh, you sometimes that is the right call for you guys, but other times you do want to race what's in front of you and, and get a bit of experience. And in your first one you know, learn some lessons and, and see how it goes and take a risk. If it doesn't pay off, that's fine. You've hopefully got 30 more Ironman races or 70.3s to, to try other strategies. So, uh, it is a big mix, but that's for you and not for the age grouper.

Yeah, for sure. I think, um, yeah, what you said is all true. And, um, it's actually funny you bring up Roland because, um, we actually ran together a few years ago in Geelong, and, um, he really helped me across the line that day because I was struggling a little bit. So we did basically the entire 70.3 run leg together and, um, yeah, it's awesome to see him move up to the, the pro ranks. But yeah, it definitely is a hard balance between sticking to your numbers and the race dynamics and, you know, it's easy to reflect back on what you could have done differently. Um, but yeah, sometimes you gotta take that risk and sometimes it pays off and then sometimes it doesn't. And it's kind of, I guess, experience that's gonna help you make those decisions in the race. Um, but again, sometimes it just doesn't go your way and sometimes it does. So Um, yeah, it's just, just depends sometimes.

On that note, you've qualified for Kona. Is that the rest of the year now? It's all, all systems go towards Kona. Are you excited for it or ahead of it? How does the next few months play out, uh, training-wise and race-wise leading, leading to that?

Yeah, so, uh, obviously Kona was my key goal for the year and it still is. Obviously I want to have a great performance there, but I also know that I have to respect the island and the conditions and the fact I'm going to be a rookie, um, heading to the, the island. So yeah, I mean, hopefully I can have a good performance there. I can prepare, um, for the heat and humidity maybe a little bit better going into that race. Um, in terms of what's between now and then, um, I've sat down with my coach and we've got two pathways. Um, I haven't decided which one I'm taking yet. One is focusing on the Pro Series, so obviously I'm having to do another or getting to do another Ironman race, um, which would be Lake Placid, um, and sprinkling in maybe 1 or 2 70.3s. Um, the other is focusing on 70.3s and getting some training blocks in towards Kona. Um, I am currently on the start list for Chattanooga, which is next weekend, and, uh, at the end of this week I'll make a decision based on how the training's gone. Obviously I'm still I'm bouncing back from Ironman Texas. Uh, it's only been, yeah, 3 weeks and I had 1 week completely off and 1 week pretty minimal training. So this is my first week kind of back into it. Um, so it would definitely, uh, yeah, I'm not sure if I'll toe the line there. Um, I'll let my body decide and I'll make the call at the end of this week. But, uh, yeah, I'm definitely doing Happy Valley, which is in June, and that's the next Pro Series 70.3. Um, which is in Pennsylvania. And then, yeah, well, I guess after that it will be Lake Placid or a couple of 70.3s heading towards Kona. So, um, kind of just letting my body decide, and I think I have a week or 10 days to make the decision as to which pathway so that we can tailor my training going forward. So, um, yeah, that's where I'm at. But yeah, obviously Kona is the key focus, so doing what I can to prepare for that.

That sounds fantastic. We, uh, we actually interviewed Christian Blumenfeld before Geelong, and he had a very average performance in New Zealand, and sure, by his standards. And we sort of jokingly said, you know, sometimes when you do a really hard event like an Ironman, the next race you've recovered because you're resting and you perform unbelievably. And who would have thought that he would have raced so well from Geelong to Oceanside to Texas, um, after that really bad start to his, uh, Ironman New Zealand. And you could be in the same position. You've had a really tough race. It wasn't a bad performance by any means compared to what Christian experienced, but had an easy week, a little bit of a back into it, and then a solid week again. Um, I think I said to Christian, you know, you never know what's going to happen here. You just, just get out there and have a go. And, uh, racing— we always push our athletes— is the best form of training. And sometimes, you know, you're better off just doing a race each month just to, rather than testing yourself on certain race-ready stuff that you do by yourself, nothing better than doing some threshold stuff in a race where you've got competition around you. What are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, definitely. I, if you look at kind of my racing over the last few years, I've raced very frequently, almost once a month. Um, I think anywhere between 8 and 12 races a year over the last couple of years. And, um, yeah, definitely see the value in doing a race as, you know, hard training session. And it's nice because you don't have to go out solo and do a, a race simulation. You get to do it in the real thing. But I think you also have to manage your expectations as well because if you're racing so often, um, you're not necessarily getting the training blocks in. So I think that has maybe been my downside the last few years in that I've raced so frequently that I've missed those training blocks. And I think that's why Um, my Geelong race tends to be a good season opener because I've had some good training leading in. It's basically over the last few years been the only real training block I get each year, which is, I guess, a large chunk of, you know, 3, 4 months of training versus getting into race season. Often I get caught up with racing so often, and even though for me it's, you know, a good training day, I You know, you go into the week and you don't factor in the fact it's a taper week, so you coming down with volume, then you do the race and then you usually recover for like 5 days or so after. And so already that's kind of almost a 2-week, um, block of not training. So I think it is a fine balance and it depends on your goals and your aims and the races that you have coming up. And, you know, obviously I'm not gonna be on my A-game if I do decide to race Chattanooga next week cuz I can't possibly be after, you know, the full Ironman and having basically a week off and a week easy and just gradually building back into it. But, um, yeah, I, I do see the value of doing it as a hard simulation, and that's kind of what we did when we looked at Geelong and Oceanside. We did that as hard days where I didn't have to go and do Ironman Texas prep by myself. Um, so yeah, I I see it both ways. I think it has its value in some, in some ways, but I think not getting in solid training blocks can also come back to bite you as well. So this year, you know, it— I'm— I love racing and I always try and say like, oh, I could do this, this, and this race, but sometimes I have to take a little bit of a step back and, um, acknowledge that training blocks are going to set me up for better performance in a future race and Sometimes I need, yeah, to see the bigger picture.

It's unbelievable to watch your progression. It's a known story of Geelong. Geelong's your home race. You've done 9 in a row and you've podiumed every single time since your debut, which is quite an exceptional record. And geez, you were running unbelievably well in that, in the race this year, you know, honing down Kat Matthews, Ironman Pro Series World Champion. I think it was another couple of K you you probably would have got her, taking it back all the way to your very first Geelong attempt where you were leading the race and body shut down with 100 meters to go off coincidentally no nutrition. And you've come a long way since then with the whole nutrition game. I think the whole triathlon world has as well. But that puts you in a, you know, 9 years later, you're in an unbelievable position. I think you're 4th in the Ironman Pro Series now. You've qualified for Kona. It's a super exciting year ahead. I guess, you know, to finish off, the last kind of questions are, how do you, how do you balance the Ironman Pro Series, these, the two pathways you just mentioned, all gearing towards Kona goal? Stuff like, uh, making sure you're heat acclimatized for Kona, making sure you're getting the Ironman volume in, but trying to keep up your Pro Series points. Um, how do you manage that mentally and with your coach? Um, I know you said you, you just listen to your body. Um, but when are you going to prioritize kind of the Kona training, the Kona volume? The heat acclimatization?

Yeah, they're good questions. I think, um, yeah, I think it's, it's hard to, to know. I think with Kona, I'll probably start preparations earlier, um, so August, September. I think when we go back to the Pro Series, it's really hard. There's this allure to doing the races, but for me, having only done one full distance last year and then having to potentially do 3 full distances and do them reasonably well to be in, I guess, the top 10 of the Pro Series is another thing. I think it obviously favors those who are consistent and then those who can perform well in Kona, um, as well. So it's a hard decision for me to make because obviously I'd love to do well in the Pro Series, but it's also putting all your eggs in one basket, um, where, you know, it's pushing, pushing my body more than I ever have to try and do 3 Ironmans in one year. And then will doing Ironman Lake Placid jeopardize my performance in Kona? Because, you know, it's gonna take a little bit more from me. I'm gonna go, um, deeper than I would go if I just did 70.3 races. So it is really a tough balance and it's hard to say which is the best pathway. Um, I've been tossing back and forward between the two. Um, I think my coach is probably more looking towards the 70.3 approach. But I think my mentality heading into the year, I was like, oh, I'll try the Pro Series. And, um, yeah, it's, it's a tricky one and I'm not sure that I'll know if I've made the right decision until Kona and, uh, like October 11th, I'll, I'll know if it was a good decision or not. Um, but the allure of doing that definitely is strong. Um, mm-hmm. But at the same time, my goal leading into this year was to do well in Kona and qualify for Kona. So I've got the qualification done. It's just, can I go to the well one more time with a full Ironman before Kona? And, you know, yeah, it's been really tricky. Probably the hardest decision-making process I've had to make. And again, I, I still haven't made it. So, uh, I'll give myself another 10 days to, uh, flop between the two and decide which one I'm gonna prioritize. But Um, yeah, I think regardless, I think, um, August, September will be really focused towards Kona preparation and, um, dialing in the, the training, but also the heat protocols. Um, not sure that I'll go out to Kona too early cuz I'm not sure that that will be, you know, wise for me. Uh, maybe I'll it will be too much and the fatigue will be too high leading into race day. But again, I have to sit down and talk to my coach and see what he thinks. He's got experience having sent age group and professional athletes to the Big Island, so he'll be able to obviously provide input as to what's going to be the best plan for me, knowing my background, and we'll go from there.

Brilliant. Dad, any final question from you?

No, I absolutely loved all of your in-detail responses and such an insight into the world of one of the more successful Australian women triathletes in history. So you're right up there with, you know, some of the best performing athletes, Grace, and you should be really proud of what you've done so far. And we're so excited to see what 2026 brings for you. And you've got yourself in a really good position, and I love the way you're going about your training. And you and your new coach have really thought long and hard about getting the most consistency, as we talked about right at the start of the of the podcast, and I think that's come through really loud and clear. And, uh, yeah, I just want to wish you all the best, uh, for this year. We'll be watching you, uh, on your journey to all the way to Kona, and, uh, hopefully you make some good decisions along the way. And, uh, yeah, so thanks so much for being, uh, such a generous person on the, on the podcast.

Thanks very much for having me. I've enjoyed it, and I look forward to hopefully catching you guys in Kona and seeing the Travelo gear across the Kona.

Absolutely brilliant. Yep, I really want to reiterate what Dad said. We can't wait to watch your journey. And, and yeah, your racing's been unbelievable, so it's great to see a local Melbourne athlete doing so well on the world stage. And, uh, yeah, good luck for it all. Again, that's it for this episode. Thank you very much as always, everyone, for listening, and we'll see you on the next one.