New 3 x Australian Champion: Claudia Hollingsworth

Claudia, a big welcome to the Travelo Coaching Get Fast Podcast. Thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me on. I'm keen for the chat.

You are now Australian champion across the 800, 1500, and 3000 over the last couple of years, Olympic Games semi-finalist, multiple national and Oceania records already at just 21. You're building a hell of a resume. How are you feeling right now at this point in your life and your early career?

Yeah, super excited. It's, um, really exciting to have, um, those big things, um, come early and have those pretty major experiences, um, at young age is really exciting to know that. I've got lots more years hopefully in me to keep going and only keep improving that. So to achieve what I have already, yeah, really exciting for me and can't wait to see what comes next.

We want to dive into all of it, but we want to start with this summer. You've come out with an absolute bang this summer of racing, and you know, we'll talk about the 3000 national champ first at the Hobart Track Classic. That was Australia's national champs, and you busted out an 8:37. You've wiped off massive amount of that 3K time over the last couple of years. So talk to us about racing a 3000. You're an 800 and 1500 metre runner and, and that kind of time.

Yeah, look, I have to be honest, going into that 3K was about a few months before getting ready for it, and Craig mentioned it and I knew a lot of the team were going to do it. And in the past few years, that's never sort of been a space that I would go into. So I thought, I'll be off the hook for this one. And then Craig said, no, we're going to enter in it and give it a red-hot crack. And it was definitely a bit daunting. Thinking about a further distance, but we had a really good training block in November and January up at Falls Creek. And I have to be honest, that whole January camp, I was just thinking, even though this workout is so hard, it's only going to make the 3K feel hopefully a little bit easier. So it was definitely really good training motivation while I was up at Falls Creek. And then yeah, coming down for that, I was actually really excited because I hadn't done a proper 3K in a really long time and hadn't had the opportunity to push myself. And with the standard of girls at the moment in Australia is so exciting, you know, really feels like we're, you know, we're really competing with the world now. So any races in Australia is top standard. So I knew it was going to be a good race and just knew I had to get in there and, and trust the work I'd done. And Craig having so much experience in the longer distances, that really, really helped, obviously. But yeah, I think I performed really well just because I went in with such an open and excited mind just to see what the possibility was. And I was feeling super, super fit. I had probably my most favorite and best camps ever up at Falls, like I said, in January. So yeah, I was just really keen to get out there, and in the race I, um, yeah, just felt really comfortable out there. And I'm really enjoying these further distances, moving, transitioning from that 800 meter into the 15, and, and now I'm doing 3K. I'm a bit scared for my first 5K. I feel like that's coming soon, but I hope I can hold that off for a few more years. But yeah, it was a really exciting race. It was a great atmosphere and our team just keeps growing each year. So having the first proper race as a team and I just remember in the warm-up area we were all in, you know, matching kits and it was one of the biggest team sort of appearances that we've had at a race. So that really, really helped and it always helps me being a part of a team and having people there for the support.

Did you have a tactic going into that race with the team or did each of the individuals in your team have their own race to run?

Everyone always has their own race to run. It's, it's really nice to know that you've got team members out there, but I love the sense of team and the team environment that On has provided me. But it is an individual sport at the end of the day, and we do keep it quite individual. But also knowing your teammates out there or behind you is really reassuring, and you know how they're going to race even if you don't know their exact plan, and vice versa. So it is really nice, but we did have different plans, but it's a settling feeling knowing, you know, friends next to you on the line.

I'd love to ask, how did you actually go in with a race plan in that event? Did you have your splits worked out and were you on track with them, and how did you execute in your own mind?

Yeah, look, no splits, um, really. Craig just said get out there and trust your fitness and, and hang on a little bit. Obviously I knew Rose was going to be really strong and, and the rest of the girls in the field, but, um, I think, yeah, I just went in there wanting to test myself and that really excited me. Especially knowing I've been fit and training's been going really well. And Craig did mention, you know, this is what the splits will sort of be like, you know, you've been doing that in training, you'll be right, kind of thing. So we didn't have an exact plan, but we knew it was going to start winding up and just learning again in the long distance, longer distances, about the tactics of it and really concentrating the whole race. Because I feel like previously in the 800, I've, you know, I love that distance, but I feel like I'm hanging on the whole time. It's a bit of a sprint. But when you're in these longer distances, it's much more about reacting to people's moves and, and really staying really concentrated and, and feeling that change of pace. So I really enjoyed that part of the race and, and feeling when someone was, you know, picking it up a little bit. But no, there was no tactics. It was just hang on, feel good, and, and clear my mind and just, yeah, enjoy it and see how fast I could go.

What actually changes in training? You said you had a really good training block and you, you were doing stuff in training that gives you confidence for the 3K. So I, I'm wondering what, what is actually different, um, are you changing much? Because you don't want to take away from the 8 and the 15. It's double the distance and double the length of racing time. How do you prepare for that? But still knowing you've got 1500s this summer, you've still got national champs 8 and 15. What are the specific differences there?

Yeah, well, with the, um, 3K, that was sort of a bonus race this year. I was, I was training really hard and had that in the back of my mind, like I said previously, but it wasn't like we were training for the 3K. It was always having national— well, Moree Plant and then Nationals in my mind. And Craig and I had a really good chat at the end of last year about the transition that we needed to do from the 8 to the 15, and we'll need to continue doing that to LA. And just basically getting more miles in, increasing my threshold, and, and yeah, learning what that pace feels like for a longer period of time. So we've just increased our mileage per week. I'm increasing sessions and, and more, yeah, running, I guess, that I'm doing each day and and each week. And that's definitely been a bit of a jump and a hard transition, but Craig's done it in a really good and safe way where we've taken it really slowly but managed to get to a, um, a level that I'm now fit enough to sort of race in those races. So the 3K was definitely a bonus and a training motivation, but it wasn't necessarily like we were training for the 3K. Um, yeah, we really just needed to use January to build the bank, as we call it, like, um, build that, um, strength and that mileage that we'll need to carry for rest of the season. So we just, um, yeah, really put in a lot of Ks and a lot of work just to, yeah, build up for the rest of the season.

How much has it jumped up from what you were doing last year? Has it gone up 5%, 10%? How have you progressed that?

Um, yeah, so, um, in a big block of 800-meter work, I was hitting about 85-90 Ks a week would be the maximum that I would hit, um, with 800, but mainly sticking around that 75-80 Ks a week, especially around racing periods, it would drop even further. But now hitting 100, 110. Um, I hit a 120K week, which Craig was a bit shocked at, and we pulled back after that a little bit. Um, but yeah, hitting about 115, 100 to 115, but around Nationals and racing period, that drops again.

So you went from that and you went back to home soil at the Melbourne Track Classic at our local track at Box Hill, and then ran a pretty incredible time of 3:58:03, was it, or 3:58 33.8. Oh yeah, yeah, I'd have to check that as well. Regardless, it was the fastest time, uh, in the 1500 on Australian soil by an Australian, uh, ever. So congrats on that, and moves you to the third fastest 1500 of all time, uh, for Aussie women. So pretty incredible. That must have given you confidence that the training block over summer had worked off the back of that 3000 meters as well.

Yeah, definitely. That was a huge surprise and such an exciting night because, um we knew Maori Plan was coming up and I just wanted to be, um, yeah, really fit and ready for that. And I guess Craig— we weren't originally going to do Box Hill, but I guess Craig just thought, you know, you're in such good shape, why not use this period while, yeah, you are fit to just see what happens. And we, um, wanted to be on the more conservative side, so we didn't— I think the pace lights were just for the Comm Games stand, or the World Indoors, sorry. We were having a late swing at the Indoors And we only set the lights, it was 4:01 flat maybe, and then, yeah, ended up pulling away from the lights and feeling really, really good. And I had a nice little bit of help from Ben Deary, one of my teammates, first 800 I think it was. And then, yeah, just felt awesome out there. It was great having the lights, and then when I went past them, I was like, oh no, where'd they go? I don't have anyone to chase anymore. So it was definitely hard in that sense of pushing myself to that time, but I think I was just really excited and genuinely felt really good out there. And And like I said before, with the team things, like some of my teammates came out to watch, and just knowing they're on the sidelines and seeing them while I'm warming up really, really helped too.

So just for those listening who don't understand what the lights are, so most of the international meets have the world— probably the world-leading time, or they can set it to whatever you want, as you just said. But most big international track meets will have the world record as the time. So now that you've got the lights behind you, you must have thought, well, I must be running— I must be running a really good time here. And did that give you— did that give you confidence that—

yeah, definitely.

Far out.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I— maybe it was last year or the year before, I had a crack at Box Hill again, and definitely wasn't as good as conditions as, um, this year, but, um, it was windy and cold. And I remember being right on the lights and just chasing them down and finding it really, really hard. So having a completely different experience this time when the lights are behind me, and I was like, oh no, just just keep going. I was actually, yeah, really exciting. And then it was not chase the lights, but, um, get as far ahead of them as you can. And coming down that home straight was really, really exciting. And seeing the time, I almost couldn't believe myself, especially I was, you know, thinking maybe I'll get 3:57, um, and then see 3:58. I was super, super pumped and honestly couldn't believe it. And it's funny when things like that happen, you think, oh, that's awesome, but it's really easy to forget actually, you know, how exciting that time is. So it was— it's nice to sort of reflect on it now a little bit.

Your streak just continued, and I want to dive into kind of the training a bit later, but, um, of how this has all unfolded and what the Falls Creek training was. But, um, you went from that to the Mori Plant and, and took down the world indoor champ Georgia Hunter-Bell, who just won the indoor title a week prior. And, and the theme across all these races, the 3K, um, the 1500, going in front of the lights, is you've just got this strength at the back end that you can just hold form and run really strong, and, and she's got a great kick, you know, her and, and Kili Hodgkinson, obviously unbelievable kicks, um, the best in the world. And, and to be able to just hold that, have that strength and hold her off, like, I mean, that must feel amazing, and you must have real confidence in, in that back-end strength that you've always been quite good at.

Yeah, that was really, really exciting. Um, I feel like it's been quite a strength of mine for a few years, and people might say it's a bit predictable maybe, but it's not because I always like to race like that. Um, it just, um, happened to work in that sort of race, and I definitely they do race differently sometimes, but having that back-end speed, yeah, is a really good strength of mine. But knowing that Georgia also has that as well, I mean, watching her many of her races, she comes flying around the bend, she sits super comfortable for a really long time, and then she, she fires exactly like that. So going into that race, I was— I mean, first of all, I was just so excited that I was racing against her, and she was in Melbourne, and it was such a great night having it sold out, and, and that many friends and family and people watching was just awesome. And to know that that's in Australia and that standard is, yeah, on our home soil is, is so great. And yeah, I just knew I had to go a bit earlier, maybe jump, you know, get the jump on her a little bit. I knew once she was gone and if I missed that reaction, you know, she would get 1 or 2 meters maybe. It's very hard to get that back. Um, so I was originally planning and sort of going at about 500, and then I stayed a bit more patient and then went at about 300, 250 I think it was. And, and honestly, I was just hanging on. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm in front, what's happening here? I was thinking, when's she gonna come around me? And then I was like, Oh, just hang on. I definitely felt the pressure down the home straight. I don't think I've felt that feeling of nearly falling over in a little bit, but having that home crowd along the rail cheering me on, I was like, oh, I've got this. That line couldn't come any quicker though. I was seriously going to fall over. But no, it was super exciting. And to get to make the move first, I was just really proud of myself because I found last year competing overseas, I just didn't have that confidence of making the move. I was sort of racing with Georgia's tactics. You know, I'll let her go. She's, you know, for example, World Indoor Champion. Wait for her to make the move just because of that sense of, you know, she's better than me, she has the experience, just follow what she wants to do. So I was really proud of myself to actually go out there and almost forget the accolades that she has and just run the race that, that, um, I wanted to run. So yeah, I was happy with that.

Making the race is such a bold, uh, and confidence boosting thing to do and so much more satisfying than being a reactive, uh, runner to what the other people are dictating. Is that something you're really working on, is to, to actually get confidence? And for races from that you've done this year must be really giving you the mindset now that, far out, I can actually do this now and put pressure on other people. And, and to beat the world, you know, the world champion from a week previous, that must have been a magnificent feeling. To know that your tactic actually worked.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, Craig and I are really working on the— yeah, this Aussie season to use these races as some really good, um, race experience and race practice. And, and yeah, changing our mindset from just waiting to see what everyone else does to actually reacting and being confident out there and making some proper, like, moves. And when I move, actually do it properly rather than move a little bit, see what everyone else does, but really making those decisive decisions. So I think that's been really great and a really great improvement in my race style and what I really want to take over to Europe. Because it is scary when you make the move and, you know, you have those doubts of what if, what if it doesn't, you know, pay off, or what happens if I get passed and, you know, that would look a bit silly or things like that. But just thinking that doesn't matter. You got to go out there and push yourself. And if you have the plan, stick to the plan. So yeah, that's been really great to practice that in this first half of the Australian season.

Do you value the races component of the whole package, which is training and racing and learning? How much value do you and Craig put on the races? And look, in our coaching business, we, we really encourage our athletes, the, you know, the age groupers, to, to get out there and race as much. How much impact do you think racing experience has on your performance improvement over the journey?

So much. Yeah, I completely agree that it really improves. And I think as a young athlete, it's taken a little bit of time to understand that, especially as someone like me that just wants to train as hard as possible all the time. I find it quite hard coming into a race week because you're tapering a little bit, and then you might have a little break afterwards and that sort of thing. And that can be quite hard mentally as an athlete because you're like, you know, I'm not hitting, you know, 110Ks this week, it's down, you know, I'm not getting fit up. But it's actually so amazing, um, how much, you know, racing brings you forward in all senses. And especially with the tactics, and you need them to, you know, that's part of the racecraft. Whereas, you know, sprints and things might be a little bit different, but with such longer events, it's really important to learn that racecraft. And, and I'm still learning, and every single experience is really, really different, but they're all so important, and it definitely brings you forward a lot more than you would think.

And the tactics— sorry, George, I'm so excited about these questions— that the tactics that come around Commonwealth Games and Olympic Games and World Championships are so different to, to running a, you know, a club to a, to a state to a national where you're probably the favorite. Whereas when you go to these other events, you're one of the top 6 athletes in the world and tactics is everything. Whereas when you're on home soil, generally if you haven't got much— used to be you didn't have much competition, but actually that's changed a lot now. The girls in Australia have got a really good depth now, but normally you would have to really think like, I've just got to run as hard as I can to push a hard pace and that'll burn everybody off. But if you do that at a Commonwealth Games or Olympic level or World Championships, that's actually not a really good tactic. Do you train to have slow races and, and have that, um, experience of, um, you know, it can be a different, uh, entity of, of the way you run a 1500 or an 800 meter in a championship race. It's just not about running fast, is it? It's about getting the right position and, and looking at what's happening and qualifying through rounds and and that, that's just not easy to do when it's just not the way you're used to running.

Yeah, totally. That's absolutely right. When, especially in training, you know, you're used to just going as hard as you can and things like that. And I think it is really hard, even internationally at the moment, where a lot of these races are set up with pace lights or, or with a pacer, because it takes away— and you know, it's awesome, it's great to see everyone's looking for that next world record or trying to get the fastest time, and, and that's great, but a lot of races at the moment seem very time trially, and loses that learning and that race craft when suddenly you get into a major championships. You know, a lot of us haven't actually practiced that yet, and it can become a bit messy. Or it really comes down to— because I really found when I was at the Olympics and World Champs, the standard of fitness and, and what people can run is very, very similar. But it comes down to, yeah, your tactics or your mindset on the day. I found how much your mind can impact the way you run, especially when we're very level in our ability to do those times. But yeah, you'll see, you know, it doesn't— the fastest time, you know, that doesn't always mean that, you know, it's going to win. It does— the tactics are totally different. And I wouldn't say we necessarily train for the tactics, but that's, um, like we're saying before, it's super important to be in so many different types of races and as much as you can possible and race different athletes and things like that, because yeah, it is totally different and it's exciting to try new things in, in races, especially, yeah, where you can.

Can you give us an example of how that played out? And let's take Maury Plant, you know, for— and an insight into— for those listening, you guys are basically just below the red line the whole race, you know, you're absolutely flying around. This is in an endurance event, you're sprinting from the start. How are you feeling coming into 500, 400, 300 to go, you know, what's going through your head? And then how do you know when to get flirt with that line where you're, you're into the red zone and without blowing yourself up with 150 to go, you know, what is happening for you internally there?

Yeah, it's a really hard, um, point in time in the race to make that decision, and I call it flicking the switch when you just like get into that next gear, um, because you really got to understand your body, and you learn that a lot through training and racing. But you sort of think, if I go now, say it's 300 meters, will I make it 300 meters? You know, it's that scary decision-making whether you go or not, and it's all about feeling and understanding your body and That's why Craig and I talk about a different, you know, lots of different plans in the race. And that's also why racing is so good, because you need to be able to make decisions on the spot where, you know, you can't just have one plan and one plan only, because a lot of the time that's not the plan that ends up happening. So we said, you know, if you're feeling good at 500, let's go there. And I thought, you know, I'm not feeling great then, but the bell came and, and yeah, I can't describe it apart from the fact that you really got to understand your body and that feeling and also having that excitement. You know, I was so excited to come down the home straight and see what I could do. I was excited that I was racing against Georgia in front of everyone. So yeah, having that excitement level and just knowing and understanding my body and just being like, hey, I'm feeling good, I know my legs, there's, there's some energy in there, and, and let's just rip it and, and let's just go. And I think just when you make the decision, not having any doubt behind it, and I learned that a lot last year, especially in the World Champs semi-final I just had a decision and I had to make it, and I half made it, and then I ended up getting spit back out the back. And I think it's really important that when you make a decision, you really go for it and don't doubt yourself.

And it is stressful running from the front because you are breaking the wind, because you're running at quite a— you know, for, for our listeners who have been riding bikes and that, you know what drafting, you know, value you have, an advantage sitting on the front. It could be a little bit of a headwind and you're copping all the wind. So it is a bit of a risky move, isn't it? Are you quite confident now that you can— you've done it all, you've run from— come from behind, you've run on the front. When you make that move to be, okay, I'm going to be on the front now, and to have, you know, someone like Georgia chasing you down, that must be quite a scary concept in your— for your brain to comprehend that, gee, I'm taking a huge risk here by by taking control of this race. Yeah, are you, are you now getting more confident with those decisions?

Yeah, I think so. And like you were saying before, definitely leading takes that little bit more energy out of you, whether it's windy or not or whatever the conditions are. Mentally, it's quite draining because you find yourself thinking a lot about what's happening behind you and looking at the screen and things like that. Whereas when you have eyes on, you're ready to go, you're just relaxed, you're just following what they're doing, you're, you're just thinking, okay, I'm just waiting pounce, I guess, ready to go. But when you're leading, it's a constant— it's quite draining thinking, okay, what are they doing behind me? How are they feeling? Are they on me if I go now? You know, it's a lot of sort of doubt can sometimes creep in when I'm leading, I find, unless I'm feeling really, really good and don't really care what's happening behind me. But in a championship race, you're the one to overtake in that situation, which is quite daunting. So I don't necessarily like to lead the whole race, but that's why Craig always says, and bit of our motto that once you're at the front, you stay at the front. And that just means once you're there, you've made the decision, you've got to stay there and, and really put all your energy into getting to the line first. And that's what it was sort of going through my mind when I, I was in front of Georgia in that last sort of 250 meters. I was like, I'm at the front now, I've done the work to get here, I've got to stay here. And then I just thought, gotta ramp my legs off and just keep from turning over. And yeah, I think I also went into that race with a really clear mindset of just like, you know, I'm just excited to be out here. My already races are going well and took away that sort of, oh, Georgia Hunter-Bell thing, because that can really sort of maybe drop my confidence a little bit. And like I said before, wait for her to make a move. But I thought, I sort of more thought of the race as, yeah, this is exciting, I'm racing another athlete, but taking away what she's done previously.

So good, I absolutely love that. It's, you're kind of talking about your instinct took over and almost probably just confidence in the work that you've, you've been doing for a long time now. And, and it was so exciting to watch everything about it, you know, hometown athlete, hometown crowd. Georgia Bell has one of the best kicks, or yeah, definitely one of the top 5 kicks in the world. And so to hold her off is, is quite remarkable. Um, yeah, I think you should just be pumped about that. You mentioned, you know, uh, the, the nature of racing a lot. This is what a lot of our athlete, um, age group athletes kind of struggle with is the detraining part, is going, oh, I don't want to taper into it, then detrain, and I'm missing training. Even just age groupers are worried about that, and you mentioned that earlier. So how are you training around these? Because by this point of the summer, you've done a lot of races, then you've got Nationals coming up. So what does the taper actually look like? What does the recovery look like after? You know, what do you— what do your kilometers of weeks go to around that? And how do you keep up the training and form?

Yeah, it is really hard, and it's mainly hard for me, like we said— you said just then about your mindset around it. And you've got to go into a race with a clear and excited blighted mind, and you need to have that sort of reassurance. And I struggle not— because, you know, 2 weeks prior to the race you have an awesome session, you're like, oh, I'm on, I just want to race this week. And then that week, you know, you still have great sessions, but they're not as big and they're not as exciting, I guess. And you sort of think, oh, I'm unfit, or I can't do it anymore. And you get these silly doubts that come into your mind, and it's like, well, I just did that session 2 weeks— you know, a week and a half ago. I know I can do it. It's just you're going to be even more fresh, but it's hard to change your mind into understanding that concept. So yeah, I guess we, we, we got to choose what races we're really going to aim for. So for Nationals, we did quite a heavy taper, about 10+ days out of that we were tapering pretty heavily. But for the races otherwise, we decided to train through most of it. We do definitely bring back our training a little bit just so we feel fresh on the day and that idea of that racing is going to bring you forward regardless. So it's all right if you pull it back that week of race day, but it was only, you know, 5 days out rather than that nearly 2 weeks. But yeah, so we just choose what race because we need— once you get into a big racing period, it is hard because you got to keep your training up. So that's why we did a huge block of work in January to sort of, you know, like I touched on before, we build a bank and then you slowly start using it. And then we're about to go into it, or we are now into a big another training block. So that period of racing prior to Nationals was quite heavy of racing, but we trained through most of it most of the time.

How did you feel your taper worked for you? Because that's something that's really subjective, isn't it? You're always trying to learn every time you go into a really big meet or Olympics or Commonwealth Games or World Championships or Australian Nationals, you're learning whether this was right for you or not. How were your legs on, on the days when you were racing? Did you feel like you got that right? Or yeah, give us, give the listeners a little bit of a glimpse into your mindset and how your body felt.

Yeah, I, um, yeah, I actually did feel really, really good, and I credit that to Craig. And we have been working for a really, really long time, so he does understand my body and what I need, and he's really good at understanding that each athlete is different and needs a lot of different things. Some people like to taper more heavily than others, whereas I, I don't. But still understanding that I need to be fresh for race day, and I genuinely thought every time I stepped on the line I felt really, really good and I had that back-end speed at the, at the end of the race that I could still pull myself through to the line. Yeah, I credit that to Craig and understanding our bodies and the whole team. I, um, yeah, I had tapered heavily, um, more heavily for Nationals, but the other ones I still felt fresh for, which was good.

I'm surprised that at the 10-day taper, that feels like a long time. Is— what's the protocol around that? It feels like a long time to shed all that fatigue. Is that, um, how does that actually look? What, what's your kilometers for that, that 10 days? How many hard sessions are you doing?

Yeah, I probably have to go back a little bit, and, and when I say 10-day taper, it's probably taking back, you know, a 4K warm-up to a 3K. It's not like that dramatic, but just slowly understand that we're freshening up and, and then dropping it back quite heavily that week of— well, I guess I was, um, racing on the Thursday, um, of that Nationals week, which was quite, um, weird to understand. So the Thursday prior, I was thinking, this is so early, you know, because I assumed it, you know, you always think you're racing on a weekend, um, but I was like, oh no, it's actually only a week away. So getting prepared like that, but we probably started, yeah, maybe on that Tuesday, just taking our warm-ups down and instead of, say, an 8K session, just a 6K session, and slowly reducing that. And then the week of Nationals, I wouldn't know exactly— I should know, but what my K for that week was, but it'd be pretty low, around 60 to 70, probably 60 Ks. And yeah, dropping those 14K runs to a 12K run and then, and then an 8K, you know, just really Yeah, dropping those sort of distances quite heavily, and we kept our key sessions, and but instead of longer key sessions, we made them really fast and feel-good sessions, which really helped me mentally get ready for a race.

And people do forget that at the Nationals you have rounds of, of races. It's not like you're just going for one event, you know. You actually get a chance to warm up in the rounds and, and almost wake your body up from that slumber of taper, isn't it? Do Do you think that's something you have to really pay attention to? You do, you do have, you know, you've got a lot of races you're running and you've got rounds.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, we were thinking about that quite a lot going into Nationals and just also being quite conscious of how much time we're spending in spikes. So that week leading up to Nationals, I don't think I chucked on spikes until maybe the Wednesday night, just when I did a few strides, because it is a lot of time to be sort of peaking and in spikes. I had a small calf niggle leading into Moree Plant, so I was just also a bit bit wary of that and wanting to make sure that was 100%, especially for the 4 rounds. I was always wanting to do the 4 rounds, but that 800 was still a bit of a question mark whether I would have gone through with it, just depending on how I pulled up. And I felt it was— I was tired, but I felt fine enough to race, and I'm really glad I did. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's sort of, yeah, taking, I don't know, a few more precautions when you have quite a lot of days of racing. And I'd never done such a huge schedule like that before. 4 days back to back is pretty crazy. So that's probably also why we did such a big taper. And, and like you said, we did have the rounds to, to warm up for.

Let's talk about the Nationals. Firstly, congratulations, national champion, 1500 meters. So that's, that's pretty incredible. Um, and silver in the 800 again. So yeah, also incredible. So congratulations on that, firstly.

Thank you.

Um, I wanna— yeah, I wanna talk about exactly what Dad just touched on, you know, the, the fatigue, managing fatigue, managing tactics, uh, in the heats the final, uh, you know, we see all the athletes trying to just make sure you stay out of trouble, make sure you qualify, especially, you know, there was, uh, if it depending on the, the type of heat you get, you know, it's almost like you're running for as much time as you need to qualify but backing off for that last 10 or 20 meters. And I always see athletes like really wanting just to back off, not to push through the line. How much does that really save in fatigue? How heavy are your legs getting into the final?

Yeah, it's funny actually that I, I remember almost laughing at myself in the— maybe it was a 15-mile 100-meter heat, and I think I was against Georgia. I can't remember. Yeah, against Georgia in the 15 heat, and we're coming down the straight, and I feel like we were both thinking to each other, let's just not race each other in these last 80 meters. That, you know, we're both going to go through and we'll be fine if we don't sprint this. But there's always that competitive nature that comes out a little bit of who's first across the line, and Craig's always got, yeah, that mindset of no matter what the race is is you— we race to win. And, um, even though that might seem a bit silly when you're trying to get, you know, save some energy for the next day, but I think it's really good mindset to not be, um, you know, too— oh, what's the word— you're not just assuming you're gonna get— yeah, yeah, you wanna— you wanna race to win. You're not— you're not through to the final yet, so you've got to get out there and try your hardest every single time. And I really like that, um, sort of mindset to know that, yeah, we've to put our best foot forward no matter what the heat that we're drawn. So yeah, definitely sometimes it's a bit silly. You don't need to really run sprint the last 80 meters, but I get a bit competitive sometimes.

I can't— yeah, because I can't remember if it was you in Georgia or maybe Jess's heat, but you were, you were 30 meters clear of the field and I was going, I don't know if you need to keep going. Yeah, it's like you can just, you can back off here, but that's part of your mindset.

Probably all the heats did that a little bit. Like you said, we could definitely back off and Whether it makes us feel that much fresher for the next day, I'm not really sure if those last 80 meters will really make a huge difference. All the heats were pretty conservative and pretty slow, which was good, but I also find there's a certain threshold or a certain time that I feel really good and relaxed running at. And sometimes it might seem a bit silly, but if you're really holding back, you almost feel a bit worse and you haven't had that time to, to stretch your legs out and feel good. So apart from being a bit competitive, I also just wanted to get into my natural stride rhythm and and fill out the track a little bit for the next day.

It's always been intriguing to me. I've watched a lot of, uh, World Championships and Olympics and seeing some really quality athletes get run out of the heats. And I noticed that the Nationals, one of the male competitors missed because him and the other guy were high-fiving each other as they were 5 meters from the line, and someone came from behind and took that spot. And, and, you know, So that's another example of why you shouldn't be easing up, because you actually don't know what's happening behind.

Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, yeah, absolutely. You gotta always— I think it's an important lesson, and sometimes you learn it a bit harder the hard way. But yeah, always run to the line and don't be complacent, you know, even if you're the best in the world. That's why Craig always says run to win and, you know, celebrate after you've crossed the line. Just get through the race and yeah, don't be be complacent about. Yeah, against View Racing.

So the 1500 final was not without controversy. It was, it was a pedestrian pace, which, which I don't know, were you expecting that, or what was your, what was your thoughts about what the tactics might be?

Yeah, not at all. Um, I was actually super, super keen going into that race because I thought it was going to be fast. I thought we could run— I mean, not the LC record because that is absolutely incredible, but I was thinking, you know, I was going to get a PB out of it, hopefully something like that. and I thought, you know, most of the girls in there would get a PB, which would have been really exciting. It's, you know, Australian middle distance female running at the moment is incredible. It's, it's basically something you'd see in a world final. It's the standard's just awesome. So we all knew we had to bring our A-game, and we were all wondering what the sort of tactics would have been. And most of the girls in there could have definitely run quicker than, than we were pacing around for the first few laps. Um, so yeah, I didn't think was going to happen. I knew, um, there was a few athletes that would have, you know, eyes on me and vice versa. So I think everyone was sort of just waiting for someone else to make a move. I'm not sure what the other girls are thinking, but I assumed with Jess's speed and her experience, she was going to take it out. Um, and then I was super surprised how slow it was, but I can't really talk on that because I was at the front too, you know. I could have taken it on. Um, but then it comes down to that what we were talking about before, that race experience and that tact side of it. You really just got to race the race in front of you. And yeah, people might have seen the time and been like, geez, that was a slow final. But at the end of the day, the time doesn't matter in the championships. It's about who crosses the line. So yeah, I was really surprised by how slow it was, and that just meant it was very bunched the whole time, and all those athletes could run that time. So yeah, we all stuck pretty close until the end.

What was going through your mind? You must have had 100 scenarios. What should I do here? Should I stay disciplined? Should I stay patient? Should I take Should I get on the front? And, and, and, you know, that risk of running 3 laps at the front of the race is— yeah, talk us through what you were thinking about when you realized the pace was just not on.

Yeah, definitely. Well, honestly, in the first 200 meters, I was like, oh, this is very slow. Maybe when we hit, you know, 400 meters, it'll pick up. And it didn't. And it was probably about 2 laps to go where it started to wind up. And again, I had different plans in my mind, whether I was going to go at 500 or 400 or wait again. I definitely didn't expect to wait that long, but I think because of how bunched it was, I found it quite hard to make a move myself. And it was about 500 to go where it started to wind up, and I could see where Jess was, and I wanted to be right on the back of her. But I felt like I positioned myself really, really good the whole race until that sort of 500-meter mark to go, and I got a bit sort of swallowed up. There was a girl on my inside on the left, and I also moved inside, which I'm annoyed about, um, and I couldn't get past. And I was, you know, they weren't hitting that pace. And what I touched on before about being reactive, you know, I could feel that pace starting to increase, and I was like, I need to be on the back of Jess or on the back of the other girls that are also feeling this pace. And it's a really cool feeling when you're like, okay, I can feel this, I've— I know we're about to move faster. And sometimes when you're stuck behind someone that isn't going, that is quite frustrating, and you try to get out. So probably would have made more of a move at 500 if I was in a better position. Um, but yeah, then after 400, I think we ran about a 56 for the last 400, which is pretty crazy. It didn't feel that quick. It still felt like we were pretty conservative until about, you know, 250 or about 150 to go. But I guess when you're in such a big pack, you, you're all towing each other around and you sort of just get into this flowing motion where just, it's just like a train. You're just in the speed sort of tunnel and you just keep moving together.

You weren't in the position you wanted to be really, were you? From that 300 to go, 400 to go, 350, you were just almost stuck. You're almost like a prisoner. And that carried the whole way around, didn't it, to the, to the, to the 150 to go. And I was watching the race thinking, oh, if you don't get out here, you're going to get blocked in because everybody's running as well as each other here, and everybody's fresh. Is that what you were feeling at that time?

Yeah, definitely. I think also because I knew in my legs and my body that I hadn't even hit second gear yet. I was just feeling super, super good, and, and I was really excited, and I was just like, I just need to, just need to go, you know. It was, my legs were feeling super fresh, and I knew what I had left in me, and I knew that I'd be upset and disappointed if I didn't get to show that. Um, and all the other girls were also feeling great, you know. Everyone came home super, super strong. I think that first sort of, yeah, 3 laps made everyone feel pretty fresh for that last bit, which, yeah, made it super competitive in the last 100 meters.

Yeah, and, and like you said before, the depth is so strong that there was literally 6 of you that could win that race and, and come home with a final kick, which always makes it so risky when it's a, when it's a, um, that slow pace. We say slow, it's still a 4:17 1500. You're not— it looks like you're jogging on TV, but if anyone was there, if you ever see someone running that pace, it's not slow, but But comparative to what you can all do, uh, it looks at, um, but just means it's super tight in that last bit. And for those that didn't see the race, in that last 50, um, there's 3 of you kind of, um, jostling for position. Jess kind of pulls out to, um, towards lane, uh, lane 2, which is very natural for the leader to do. You were sitting behind her, you try to come on the inside, um, she, she closes the gap or tries to close the gap, and you guys get tangled and she falls over. You take the win, um, but it was, uh, and, and and, uh, was it Sarah who got second, uh, or Abby?

Uh, Sarah, then Abby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was kind of three of you all speaking to that line. And so you win the, you win the national champion, um, gold medal, uh, but you were straight after the race, you, you looked a little bit, um, rattled and, um, and shocked because it's just not the way you want the last 50 meters to go. So, um, a disappointing sprint when you guys just want to, want to race each other right to the line, but a couple weeks on, how are you feeling about that incident and how that unfolded?

Yeah, it was definitely really tricky, and I think, yeah, a lot of people have touched on the way I looked after the race and my face sort of dropping. And honestly, my— I was just upset as soon as I crossed the line because of how much respect I have for Jess and how I think she's just an awesome racer. And we became, well, I thought, good friends last year. We traveled a lot together, and she became became such a buddy of mine, I guess, and someone I really looked up to and someone that really, really helped me, almost that sort of mentor person for me. You know, my first Diamond League, I was, you know, sitting at the brekkie table with her and really learning from her a lot. And we did it training camp together at St. Moritz and just seeing her professionalism. So getting to know her so well last year, and then that— when that happened, I think my face just dropped on the fact of, oh no, like, I hope she's okay and I hope I haven't ruined that bond between us because I, yeah, just really like her company respect her a lot. So I was just like, oh no, like, Jenna, I hope she doesn't hate me. That sort of feeling. I was just really upset at that fact. And, um, that I went obviously over to her straight away because I just wanted her to know that whatever just happened. And it was quite hard to, um, talk to the media afterwards and even talk to Jess because it happens like that, you know, everyone's watching it in slow-mo probably 100 times before we can even understand what happened. So there was a lot of opinions before I even understood what happened in the race myself because, um, obviously it was not intentional. You know, I genuinely believe I had a clear run and, and Jess was in her right to close that and there was nothing intentional that happened. It was just purely I tried to move out and we clipped heels. I didn't run into the back of her or anything like that. I tried to move out of her way honestly and move to the right. And then, so yeah, I just wanted to give her a big hug after and hope she was okay because she, yeah, definitely hit the ground hard and it was everyone's race to win. And then, yeah, definitely a few weeks on, it's, it's been a bit easier, I guess. But the media can be pretty brutal, so it has been a bit hard to, um, get through that, I guess. And everyone has their different opinions, which they're entitled to have. But as someone who's quite a people pleaser and, and likes to be liked, I guess, if I'm being honest, it's hard to get that negativity. Um, but I understand where people are coming from. I just, um, really didn't want people to think it was intentional and that it was, yeah, deliberate at all, because I would never ever ever do that. So yeah, I'm excited, I'm excited to keep getting back out racing and things like that. It's obviously, um, probably going to be a bit of a topic of conversation because, um, a lot of us Aussies are going over to China soon to race. Um, so just trying to take it out of my mind a little bit. Obviously I'm not trying to take it out of my mind completely because I, you know, sympathize with what happened and hope everyone's okay, but it's hard to get into that, you know, next race mindset when you kind of know everyone's going to bring it up again and create this whole, you know, rivalry. But at the end of the day, it was an accident, and I hope, you know, we can move past that in the next races.

If it wasn't so much of a national race and a race of quite big importance, there are racing incidents that happen all the time. People, uh, you know, it's not, it's it's not something we want to see, but people do fall. And, and, you know, it just so happened it was one of the bigger races, you know, in Australia with the best, you know, 4 to 6 women, you know, fighting out for that position. And it, you know, I don't— the decisions by the officials is their decisions, and you, you're just there racing the race, and a racing incident happens. It's just, it's not like anybody who's an athlete tries to get an unfair advantage. So in your mind, you should really be thinking like that. And it is a really unfortunate way to finish that season, uh, off. So that, you know, when you come to your next race, as you just said, yeah, you've still got that in your mind. But, you know, that's probably one of the things you'll have to really work on, is to get that out of your mind and move on. And, you know, it was unintentional. All the things that you've said are really correct. And, and, you know, just be aware that it's just— you're not the only person that's ever had an incident. There's been been, you know, so many famous incidents where people have fallen. And John Landy and Ron Clark, you know, falling over and picking him up. And, you know, things like that happen over the journey. And so, yeah, I love your attitude. And you, you know, you've got nothing to be worried about there. And watching it, you know, it was like, oh, that was unfortunate. But gee, yeah, you know, this is what happens in athletics.

Yeah, I think anyone watching it knew it was not intentional.

That's—

it's just, it's a racing incident. And we don't want to harp on it. Um, and obviously everyone's going to have opinions on social media. I guess it is your first, you know, challenge in your career where, where there's just a lot of focus on something not positive, you know. How did you go blocking out social media? Did you get some support from Craig and the team? You know, how did you approach that?

Yeah, honestly, um, credit to Athletics Australia. They've got, you know, got such nice people backing us, and, and they were really, really nice and supportive. So big thanks to them. But I honestly just turned my phone off for the whole weekend. I deleted Instagram, to be honest. I like to think I'm quite a strong person and can move past a lot of things like that, but I knew I had a job to do the next day, front up for the 800 and give it a red hot crack. And I didn't want to dwell on it. And to be honest, it was really hard receiving some messages and some comments and things like that. So yeah, I just deleted Instagram basically until halfway through the next week, and I didn't want it to seem like I was shying away from what happened because because I've got nothing to hide. I'm not, um, scared of anything because I know it wasn't intentional. I didn't do anything wrong. It was just a really, really unfortunate, um, thing to happen. But yeah, I did find it, find it really hard, and the media does not help with that at all.

For sure. You are— yeah, you handled it with such humility. You should be proud of it. Crossing the line and not celebrating as your first natural response just shows that you, you're worried for your teammates and Jess. And, um, and even now, you know, your explanation is just really grounded, so you should be proud of that. And then you had to back up and, and go for the 800, which is, yeah, really a pet event. So, so talk us through— you got the silver medal against Abby, you know, both of you fighting down to the line. Her kick is also extremely strong. So, so take us through your review of the 800.

Yeah, um, so yeah, the heats run Saturday and then the final on the Sunday, and, um, it was also my 21st birthday on the Sunday. And, um, and I have a twin sister. Thank you. Um, you know, I shared the morning with Gem, my sister, my twin sister, which was really exciting. So, and I was just out there, just excited to be out there. But in all honesty, I kind of just wanted the weekend to be over. And I hate that I even think like that because every race is so important to me and I want to give it my all every single time. But I I was pretty drained, and as, as much as all the other girls would have been as well. And we all had a really good chat after the race and, and gave each other all a hug about, you know, what we've all sort of had to deal with this week. So that was really nice, I think. Yeah, brought us all a bit closer because, you know, gave each other a lot of support. But yeah, in that race, I just— Craig said to me, go out there and run, run the Aussie record and just get it done and go out and have fun kind of thing. So I definitely had intentions of running really fast, and that's why I wanted to take it get off, you know, from the front. But what I was saying before about having that switch and flicking that switch, that does come down to a lot about how you're feeling in your mind. I knew I had it in my legs, but on— and about making a decisive decision, I knew that last 200 I had to run sub-30 and, and keep pushing, um, but I just didn't have that sort of flick of the switch in me that day. And coming down the home straight, I just— I was looking at the line and I couldn't wait to get there, but in a different sort of sense, I guess it was a bit like, let's get this weekend done and, and move on a little bit. And when Abby passed me, and she's such an awesome racer, I mean, it could have happened either way. I could have sat behind her and tried a similar thing. It was very smart and tactical racing by Abby, but I just wanted to get out there, run quick, and, and see how I go. And I was really happy with the time, it was pretty good for a lead from the front. And it wasn't exactly the time I wanted to get, but after such a big weekend, I was pretty happy. And, and Abby's awesome. I I was honestly happy for her too. She ran a really, really good race. Yeah, going from the start of the race, I guess it was my first 800 of the season, which I was excited about, apart from the heats, but first quick 800 of the season. So I didn't really know what speed I had in me. We haven't done any speed work this year yet, which is a bit daunting, to be honest. We've been working on that longer stuff. So that last— the first 200 was really important to me to, to get out, and then we're really working on that that 400 to 600, I think you can make a lot of, um, ground and hurt a lot of people, I guess, in that, because people don't really expect that. It's a really key important part of the race is that 400 to 600, and just backing yourself that you can wind it up now and, and you'll be all right. So that's what I was practicing in the race, my 400 to 600, and then yeah, that last 200 was sort of just what I had mentally on the day.

It caps off a pretty remarkable summer so far, and yeah, that, that weekend been a whirlwind, kind of makes sense, and, and just mentally needing a break on, based on what you're just saying, you know, we'd love to just dive into the training a bit more and, and, and how you split up, you know, the speed work versus the, um, the 800 reps or longer reps, thinking about 8s and 15s. So, so you mentioned you're up to kind of 90K weeks, uh, for the first time, kind of, and that's topping out at that, or you plan to increase that a little bit?

Oh, I'm hitting at about 115 now, um, Ks a week.

Ah, okay.

So, um, we So maxing out at 90Ks was probably the biggest I ever did when I was doing 800 training. And now, um, yeah, the biggest yet has probably been about 117, but we're sort of just looking at around 105-ish, which is even weird. I'm like, I need to check that. Is that, is that right? Um, just adding in those extra Ks is really exciting. We've definitely done, yeah, much more, um, work. And not that we're pushing away from that speed side, because I remember making the decision at the start, at the end of last year, and being a bit unsure because I felt like I'd put put so much effort into this 800, um, that I don't— didn't want to just have the sense of, okay, I'm not ever going back to that. But Craig and a few people at the VIS said, look, Clouds, if you're doing, you know, if we're moving to the 1500, it's not to get slow at the 800, it's only going to improve that as well. And that really excites me, and I know that's true. I know it's going to make me stronger for that. But we haven't really touched on speed work yet. We're doing faster, longer reps, but, um, we were doing, you know, previously a very specific day of, you know, 40s, 60s, 120s, that sort of thing. We haven't started that yet, but we are going to this week actually, which will be exciting just to get that speed work happening again. We'll be really good.

It's amazing you're running those paces and times with, with not much speed work. That's, that's pretty incredible and shows the strength and base you have. Could you break down your weekly split for us? So what is, what does the whole week look like Monday to Sunday? Where are your hard sessions? Where are your easy sessions and long runs?

So at the start, or maybe the end of last year, we've actually moved to a Monday, Wednesday, Friday session week, um, compared to the traditional sort of Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Um, so on, I guess we start our weeks on Sunday now. Um, so Sunday is just, um, 14K aerobic run, and I normally either jump on the pool or get in the bike, um, that afternoon as well. Um, and then, but as of this week and continuing forward, that will become a speed session day. So we'll do, um, 2K warm-up and we'll go through these, um, drills with, um, our assistant coach and really get that sort of technique down pat. And then we'll go over to the oval and do some speed work. So those 40s, 60s, 80s, and, and above. And then, um, Monday is our session day, normally our threshold day. So So, uh, for example, this week we did, um, 2x2K, 4x1K, but it's a variation adding up to 8K, whether that's, um, yeah, it just keeps changing.

It makes sense.

8K session with 4K warm-up, 4K cool-down. And then again, I'll jump on the bike that afternoon. And then Tuesdays I do gym in the mornings at the VIS. So that's with a coach, which is— I've really enjoyed. I've just started doing that, um, on the back end of last year, and it's just been really helping me um, get that more speed and power. So, and then I'll do a 14K run after that, that morning, and then, um, normally jump on the bike again that night.

Yeah.

And then, uh, Wednesday is, uh, track session day. So, um, we'll do track tomorrow. I think we've got splits. We did split 700s last week, so, um, 300, 100 jog, 300. But then normally it just changed depending on what we're doing. So that's our hard session of the week. And then Thursday I just have an hour aerobic and gym um, and nothing in the afternoon. And on the Wednesday, I'll do a double run. And then on Friday, um, I just have another 14K and, um, either a double run or jump on the bike. And then Saturday is our long run day, so I won't do anything, um, else that day. And then Sunday, we hit that again. And on speed session days, we'll normally do a 6K run in the afternoon if we've done speed that morning. So So yeah, and then other days I just add in core and a bit of activation, just some, um, not load-bearing gym, but just, you know, um, keeping up those lots of little sort of strength and conditioning and injury prevention stuff around the week.

Fantastic. Uh, I'd just love you to dive into the 2K, 1K, or the total of the 8K you do early in the week. What paces are you running there, and does that change, uh, as you progress towards a major event? Are you trying to stick to your heart rate or your LT1 heart rate and your paces, or what are you using there and what, what numbers are you running to?

Uh, so usually for our, um, 2K reps, we'll, you will go off heart rate. We do— did a lot of testing at the start of the year, the O2 testing, etc., to get those heart rate zones. So that's been really good to work off, um, a good threshold. So I'm about 178, um, to 182.4, um, is my threshold zone for those, um, 2K reps. And that sort of depends on the day sometimes, I guess, especially with heart rate. But that's about 3:15s to 3:20s-ish for those 2K reps. And then when we do 1Ks, hitting about 3:08 and then quicker if, if we can. But sometimes they're 3:10 and then we just drop them down as, as we go throughout the session. And then if we were doing Ks and 500s, that would be about but, um, 130s and sub, um, for that one as well. So yeah.

And how much rest off those? Is it normally a minute or—

Oh, for the 500s, we're going off 45, and then everything else is off a minute.

Okay. Even the 2Ks and 1Ks off a minute?

Yeah.

Perfect.

How are you finding the heart rate when there's that lag period from, say, if you're doing a, a 1K and you're kind of not really hitting the, the 178 until certain part through the run, is it really just you going to feel and just building up the pace, or are you looking at the pace right from the start?

Um, well, with the heart rate, um, I found it really frustrating at the start because I was like halfway through the rep and I was like, I'm not even doing what I'm meant to be doing, and then suddenly it hits, and then you're like, I can't get it back down. So it is a bit frustrating, that sort of like, um, jump in, um, learning how to use your heart rate But when I was younger, Craig did a really good job, and he sometimes does with other athletes and me sometimes, just take your watch off, you've got to give it to him, and you really just got to understand your body and feel what those paces should feel like. And, um, day to, you know, every single training day you'll feel different, and that's why your heart rate can sometimes be a bit different. But you've got to understand what that pace feels like. So what a 3:20 feels like to you, what a 3:10 feels like. And yeah, I really credit that to Craig because I genuinely feel like I could go out and hit those paces without my watch on. And I think that's a really important skill that people should learn, and it's, it's really important, especially, yeah, just understanding your body and knowing what paces feel like. Um, so yeah, for the, for the heart rate stuff, it can be a bit different, but I just got to be a bit patient and know that the heart rate will creep up, and then once it's there, just keep it there. But Craig's pretty keen on getting the heart rate there, you know, pretty early on into the session. Don't take, you know, a k and a half to get there, you know, get moving and get it up there, and then, and then keep it there. And then with the K reps, he gives us a bit of sort of leniency. He sets it at about 3:10, but if you're feeling good, just, just keep rolling and see what they come out as.

It's always interesting, isn't it, when you're actually using heart rate, and if you're on a really hot day, you know, 3:10 could be 3:17 pace at 178 heart rate. And, and that, that's kind of, you know, frustrating in itself, isn't it? That, um, and that's why heart rates are good and a bad thing to use as compared to pace is— pace is really strict. It's actually you're doing that or you're not doing that, whereas heart rate is really susceptible to the heat of the day, the temperature of your body, how you're feeling. And that's why how you feel, heart rate, and pace, for those listening, are also important, aren't they? All three metrics are really key. How do you feel at this heart rate, at this pace?

Definitely, yeah. And, and like you said before, different factors, you know, sleep and if you're tired or if you're hot, can really change your heart rate. And I remember having a session a few weeks ago and I've got my heart rate, um, just on the screen itself, so I can't see the pace at the same time because you're really just looking for that zone and to work, work in that exact zone to get the benefit that you're looking for. And it has taken me a few years, especially as a young athlete, to understand that I'm in my zone. Don't worry about the pace, you're still getting the benefit of the training. And it can be frustrating and confusing as an athlete to be like, well, I ran 3:10 last week, why am I running this this week? Or is. Um, so just understanding that, especially if you are working off a heart rate, um, training day. Um, but yeah, it can change all the time, but just what helps for me is just having my heart rate on one data screen. And Craig says, don't look at your pace, we're working to heart rate today. And yeah, that really helps.

Wow, it's so cool to get a breakdown of the different groups' training splits and how they adjust their week. So, so the Wednesday hard day, uh, the track work, it's 300s. What's the volume of that that you're getting to? Is Is it, is it 10 300s or 8, or what kind of total volume are you getting?

Um, that's a good question. I'm trying to think exactly if we're doing 300s how many we would get, but the session normally gets to about between 6 and 8K, so we're doing quite a lot of work on the track that day. We normally finish with some bit of threshold, so I did, um, 5 700s last week and then finish with, um, 4x500m threshold. And we do that just to flush out the legs really and get that extra bit of fitness, especially when we're in this training block just trying maximize all areas of our training. But yeah, it'll be about 5 700s with some extra threshold at the end if we're doing a pure speed thing. Or, or we'll start with a mile, do 400s, finish with a mile, something like that. And also, I just was thinking when I was talking about my training week, I said Friday I did a jog. I don't do that. I— we do a session on Friday, um, whether it's either another threshold. So we're doing a lot of pickup runs, so 14K um, you know, progression runs, and then we're going back into a big hill session block. So this week on Friday we'll have, um, hills, and that changes between, um, 800-meter hills, so longer hills and shorter hills, depending on what we're trying to get out of the session.

I was going to follow up on that because I thought you said Friday was hard, so I'm glad. Yeah, yeah, the easy days, are you running to heart rate or pace, or is it just comfortable? It's just, just off feel, just keep it cruisy, just how you feel.

And I think our team does a really, really good job of that. It's sometimes hard when you're in a, a team of different levels and everyone feels different on the day to want to be at the front group or not feeling like you can drop back. But there's always different people running at different paces and genuinely to, to feel. And yeah, I credit a lot of our athletes and our team to running, yeah, how they feel on easy days because you do really want to be fresh and ready to hit those sessions properly. Easy days are important, and important for aerobic fitness, but you're not going to get much better, you know, more benefit if you're running, you know, 5 seconds per K quicker. But it could impact the how you feel the next day. So, um, I'd run how I feel. I like— I'm a bit stubborn though sometimes. I like just to stick up with the boys and, and run there, probably easy pace. But, um, that's also just because we're just having fun and chatting. So as long as, you know, I can hold a good conversation and enjoying the run and not, not puffing too much, then I feel like, yeah, it's definitely run to feel, not looking at pace.

So just for our listeners or the age groupers generally who are listening to this podcast, your, your specific days where you're doing the easy days compared to the hard days, there has to be a huge difference, doesn't it? And, and when you talked before, you added more volume from 110 to 115 you're not getting that in extending the hard session, you're extending the warm-up and cool-down, I imagine. Is that how you're doing it?

Hmm, yeah, we're extending all our sort of aerobic work. So I'm going from, um, a 10K or a 12K jog up to a 14 or a 16K jog. So our sessions have remained very much the same. I've now moved to 8K session blocks on the session day rather than a 6K session. So 6 by K is now 8 by K. Um, but yeah, a lot of the time we're just increasing our aerobic volume and our aerobic aerobic fitness through that.

We're so happy to hear the amount of cross-training you do, uh, especially as cyclists. We just think it is a secret weapon that not enough runners are using, which is the bike. So can you talk us through what are you doing on the bike? You're just on a gym bike, or what kind of setup do you have? And then, and what is it, just easy spinning your legs, or, or are you training to anything power or heart rate on that?

Um, yeah, just on a Wattbike indoor. I definitely want to get on to a few different things. I've seen a lot of athletes using different material, which makes it look a bit more fun. But yeah, I know I'm just sitting on a, a Wattbike. Sometimes I go on an elliptical, but I just, yeah, I really enjoy the bike. And I love swimming as well. I actually started swimming before I was running, so I still really enjoy getting in the pool where I can, or with the squad. But yeah, just sitting on the bike. Craig sort of sets about, you know, an average of what he wants to hit for RPM or um, or watts, but I sort of just go off heart rate for that as long as I'm in my aerobic zone and, and concentrating while I'm doing that. Yeah, just mainly going off heart rate for that one.

Sounds like you could be a very good triathlete if you're already swimming and riding. Is that something you've ever done since you're a little girl? Have you done any triathlons?

I think, I think I've only done one, one of the 2XU series, um, down here in Melbourne. And yeah, I loved it. I thought— and Craig and I had a little conversation about maybe that that's, that's where we could go. But oh, I think triathletes are amazing. What they fit into their training and how they have to really train for all those different events is incredible. I love doing swimming and riding, but I don't know if I could do it at the same level as I run as well. So triathletes are pretty amazing.

I'm sure you would with the engine you've got as a runner. I don't think it'll take you very much.

Yeah, yeah, give us a call after maybe 2032 Brisbane if you feel like changing sports. You can have a cry for sure. Uh, gym days, uh, yeah, curious to hear kind of what the load is for that. Um, you know, the On program is so professional and you've been lucky enough to be part of it from a young age, you know, and you get access to this whole kind of support network. You're getting testing, your program's really structured and professional, you're doing, uh, quite a solid gym routine, which I imagine helps with your strength at the back end. Can you talk us through what the volume is of the gym routine and how you find it?

Yeah, it's really— I'm really enjoying gym at the moment. I was doing gym with my physio previously, which was really, really awesome, but I've now moved to a specific strength and conditioning coach at the VIS, and he's been helping a lot with— well, I was working with VIS previously, but now moved to another coach anyway. And, um, yeah, it's really good. It's super interesting to understand that how important gym is and how it can really improve, um, yeah, your speed and power. And I love getting in the gym and understanding, okay, I'm doing this exercise because of this and I'm doing it, you know, this technique, or I need to move my leg forward or back to use this muscle because we're trying to do this. And I really think it's helped in my racing, and I feel that a lot in the back half of my race, especially in that last 200 meters. I was actually laughing with my gym coach because I said in the last 200 meters, or 50 meters more like it, Maury Plant, all I was thinking about was, oh, hips up and stay tall and you know, engage all the muscles that we have been doing in the gym. And I generally think I would have fallen over, or I wouldn't have got to the line first if, if I hadn't done that gym work previously. So to start to see the gym work coming into training, and, and also, you know, the power stuff, you know, of our starts and things like that, it's definitely really improving. So we do gym just 2 times a week, of strength gym, and then the rest is just sort of maintenance stuff using bands and things like that. But Uh, strength gym is Tuesday, Thursday, and it goes for about an hour. And we do about a month to 6 weeks of a program, more like 3 weeks to a month of a program, and then we'll change it, and then we'll change it again. So pre-Nationals, uh, um, was doing a big strength and, and build sort of, you know, heavy lifting, that sort of stuff. And then going into that 3-week period of Nationals, we pulled back on the, the strength of it, but now working on power and speed. And now that I'm in another training block, going back to that, um, building muscle and strengthening again.

It's super interesting, uh, hearing athletes' different splits of when they do gym days, because some camps are in the keep your hard days hard, and so do intervals plus your gym on the same day. And others are, um, you know, that's hard enough on that day, do your strength stuff on alternate days, which is what you're doing. So how do you find, uh, any type of recovery from the gym? Do you find it affects your next days at all? Are you pulling up sore from the gym at all?

I used to do hard day, make a hard day hard and do everything on that day. But now that I'm working specifically with gym coach and really want the quality of my gym to be at its best quality, I've learned that, well, for me it works really well when I go into the gym fresh-ish and, and ready to go and really use that time because we only have it twice a week. It's only an hour, so that's really only 2 hours to improve and do these exercises exercises properly. So I want to have the most energy and give it my 100% time. So that's why I've changed to do it on a not a session day, because I just found after a session I'd come in the afternoon and just want to get it done and get out of there rather than actually focus on the exercises that I'm doing. And yeah, that just works really well for me. And obviously, um, you know, a lot of athletes— and I did too— think, oh no, you know, I've got heavy gym on Tuesday and then a hard track session on Wednesday, how am I going to pull up But it only takes a few, you know, sessions and your body gets pretty used to it, and, and then it just becomes routine and you recover really well. And it's just important about, you know, refueling, um, getting that physio or that, um, you know, putting your boots on, you know, recovery boots on, things like that. So recovery is definitely important, and if you're prepared to put in that side of, you know, the work, then yeah, I find it really works really well for me.

You've had a professional routine from a young age and be pretty dialed in already, uh, with it all. But yeah, how do you go outside of training? You're just recovering, I think you're studying as well, you know. How are you spending your time? And are you finding this routine is working for you? Are you getting through your weeks fine? Are you, are you on the edge? You know, how are you finding the whole just professional athlete life?

Yeah, um, well, of course I'm really lucky, so I love what I do and so lucky that this is my job and, and the life that I get to live. Um, I'm not studying actually currently at the moment. I did do a whole year of uni last year, which I loved, and I thought it was great. But this first half of the year, especially with Comm Games being earlier on the season, I've deferred this semester, planning to go back next semester. But I'll check in with that when that happens. Not sure if I will.

Um, but what are you studying? What are you—

what, I'm studying architecture, which is a bit different. Um, but I really love it. It was just a nice, um, distraction from running. I wanted to go into sort of physio, um, or something like, you know, that sort of, uh, area. But I also understand my body so much already. I know there's a lot to learn, but I just wanted to have nothing to do with the human body or, you know, something slightly connected to running. And I just, I like being a bit creative and just take my mind away. So that was a really nice distraction, especially while traveling overseas. But it was a lot, so I have deferred this semester. Um, but yeah, outside of training, um, it's a lot of just recovering um, napping when I can. I was never a napper until I went to, um, you know, on training camps, and we have a designated time when no one can talk or move, basically, between 12:30 and 3.

It reminds me of crèche for the kids.

It's silent time. So everyone has a period where they can go and nap. And I think, yeah, sometimes I get in the habit of that. And I used to think, you know, I'm tough but you know, I don't need a nap. But it's actually really important to do what your body needs and needs on the day and forget about trying to be tough or whatever. Just take the nap if you need to. So yeah, sometimes that. Otherwise, just trying to see friends and family as much as I can. That's such an important part of my life, especially when I travel and I'm away so much. I know that when I go away, I don't get to spend that time, and I miss out on quite a lot of the, I guess, fun and normal things that you do when when you're 20, in your 20s, I guess. And I know a lot of athletes, um, also giving that sort of stuff up too. But when I'm home, I just try to see friends and hang out with family as much as I can.

Amazing. Thank you so much for the insight. We just want to finish off with, uh, you know, kind of give us your plan for the rest of the season. Is everything geared around Comm Games? What's, what's the racing structure? What are you going for?

Yeah, it's going to be awesome and exciting and long, um, season. Lots of races, lots of races coming up. It's a bit of a different season for me this year, which is exciting because I've had quite a lot of success at the start of the year. It's given me a lot of opportunities this year, whereas last year I was sort of trying to get into races, and now I'm finding myself I can actually say no to a few, which is weird but an exciting feeling. So I'm heading to China first to do the two Chinese Diamond Leagues there. Um, I'll head out on the 12th and the first race is on the 14th. And then I'm at this stage going to compete in the Rabat Diamond League in the 800. It's the— actually an A race but still at the same meet. So if I end up doing that, I'll be there. And then I also got into Rome, which is really exciting. And then just hoping to keep getting into more of the Diamond Leagues. And we've got a huge training camp up at St. Moritz on— starting on the 10th of June. So that'll be our big base before going to Comm Games. And definitely Comm Games is a really big priority, and I'm super excited for that one. So we'll be working towards that, but This year has also been, um, with the— at the front of my mind of that we're actually just using this year to really build fairly with that 1500 meters. So getting that race experience, building those Ks, um, per week, and, and yeah, just learning how to, how to race that. So as much as Comm Games is a huge priority and really exciting, it's also just a big building year for me.

That's so awesome.

And look, it's, it's no secret that, uh, the on-program is kind of put together and and, you know, taking you guys to the Olympics. And, and you've obviously had a great first taste of it in 2024 in Paris. You've got LA next, and then 2032 in Brisbane is, is kind of a long-term goal. And it's amazing that, you know, a program can start years ago and aim for that, like, that 10-year plan. That, that's, it's really cool that, you know, that's, that's there for you and the structure is there. You've got a long, a lot of time between now and then. Does that play in the back of your mind? You just focused on LA. What do you think about that?

Yeah, a little bit. Um, I I think normally I'm in the mindset of take things race by race, but it's actually really exciting also to think into the future and dream big and see what happens because that's only going to motivate me more and, and, and keep pushing myself. So I do take things definitely race by race, and you know, this year's Com Games, so let's aim for that. But definitely having LA in the back of my mind, it's still a while away. I mean, it's going to creep up pretty quickly, and I think Brisbane's just getting a lot of traction and exciting energy around it. So obviously that's— I'm thinking about that a lot more. Probably if it wasn't in Brisbane, I wouldn't be thinking about it as much as I am. But, um, we're doing a really good job also with on, you know, building our program and building the athletes to really compete really, really well at home soil. And yeah, I think it's just super exciting what we could all achieve there. So it's definitely thinking about that one too.

Thank you so much for the insight on this podcast. You've given such detailed answers, we love it. We'd love to just finish with some rapid-fire questions if that's okay, just quick answers. Just to finish. Um, so give us, uh, uh, your most enjoyable place in the world you've run so far.

Oh, I'd probably say St. Moritz. It's pretty beautiful.

Favorite— yeah, favorite race you're most proud of?

Oh, that's really good one. Um, oh no, um, that I'm most proud of—

I don't know, proud of them all.

Um, yeah, I'm gonna say, um, probably my, um, heat at the piece.

Yeah, amazing.

Fantastic.

What's the session you like doing the most?

Um, I'm honestly, now that I'm moving to the 15, and really enjoying the longer stuff, so I would probably say something threshold, which is pretty boring. But, um, I also do love a pretty speedy, um, track session, so some 300s or some 200s.

And the session you like doing the least?

It always depends on the day. Um, Oh, it's hard because I like all sessions because I just like pushing myself.

Fantastic.

I'm just gonna say that's amazing.

Yeah, that's a professional athlete's mindset.

Now, because I've, you know, in a good mindset, and it'll come to the day and I'll be like, this is the one I don't like.

What's the best actual track you've run at around the world?

Oh, um, well, when I thought Oregon in 2022 was just the most amazing stadium, and I don't know I don't know if this is because I felt so small and it was my first international thing, but that was amazing. But we go to some pretty incredible places, especially the smaller races I did last year. And in Rovereto, I mean, there was a track in, you know, the mountains around you. So hard. And I— all of them. Sorry, not good at these.

Such good answers. Who's the toughest opponent you've raced?

Oh, um, I think Abby and I have such a fun, like, rivalry because we've been at the top together for so long, and she's super tough, and I finally have quite similar tactics, and it's always exciting. We both don't know who's going to take it, you know, who's going to lead or whatever. So I'll probably say Abby just because it's fun and, and we're good friends.

That 800 rivalry. And who's the athlete you, uh, follow or look up to the most?

Um, yeah, honestly, even after like the tough weekend over Nationals and things, I'd, I'd say Jess. I just have so much respect for her. And, and, um, yeah, I hope we're all good after that weekend because I really credit my success and last year to, yeah, just having fun and having sort of that sort of mentor around and what she does. And stepping that stone for us Aussie girls is really exciting. I mean, just to see her run that fast just makes us really excited that we can do that too.

Great answers, Claudia. And, and yeah, look, it would have been really exciting to see had that last 50 meters come down to the line who would have got it, because, you know, Jess is just the most incredible athlete, and with a PB of 3:50, 3:50 something, it, um, it— to go toe-to-toe with her is, you know, you're in pretty good shape. And she's already one of our, or probably our most successful middle distance runner ever. And so, yeah, you're in great shape competing with her, and I'm sure you'll have many more good races to come. So you should be, yeah, super pumped about that.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited. Thanks.

So that's it for this episode. Thank you very much for everyone listening. And Claudia, thank you so much for the insight again. We absolutely loved it. Dad, anything from you to finish off?

No, I just want to wish you all the best. It's, uh, you've got a great attitude and I loved hearing your stories and, uh, your, your happy-go-lucky, carefree attitude, but you've got attention to detail, and those two things will make you an incredible athlete in the future. So, uh, we're really excited to watch you do what you do over the next, uh, 10 years of your journey. So, uh, thanks so much for being on the podcast. Fantastic.

No worries. Thanks so much for having me on, and it's great to chat. Appreciate it.

That's it for this episode.

We'll see you on the next one.