Tom & Roland Rollercoaster Pro Ironman in Cairns

2 doctors, 2 very good mates turned 2 pro triathletes whose progression is starting to become really scary. This is the series and continued story of Tribolo coached athletes Tom and Roland and their journey as professional triathletes, which a lot of you are loving, uh, watching them try and juggle a full schedule working, uh, while trying to become pro athletes. And for the time being, uh, this is what they're doing. Their, their full schedule is, is, uh, working professionals in the medical field, but I'm curious to ask them today if you know, how long that's going to continue for or the potential plan. But today we're discussing the rollercoaster that was Ironman Cairns for the both of them with some incredible data to come from that day. And some big what-ifs that we want to jump into. But first, if you're sick of cleaning your goggles between every single set or not being able to see properly in the open water, Effortless Swimming's NanoClear goggles are your solution. Brenton from Effortless Swimming custom made these goggles to be the best anti-fog goggles on the market. And Dad, what a difference it has made to you wearing these in your local, in your local lake swims.

Absolutely, Gerard. For many of my swims, my goggles would just continually fog up and I would actually have to stop probably every 400 meters to actually see where I'm, where I'm going. And from the minute I put these new ones on, it's been unbelievable. I can actually see way more clearer. I actually have a more calm swim now because I'm not anxious about where the hell am I swimming? Am I swimming in the right direction? Am I swimming straight? And I can see everything around me. And where I swim, it's got a lot of reeds, and half the time I'm not sure whether it's a water snake or a reed just wrapping itself around my neck. But now I can actually see what's, what's going on. So I've really loved them. And not that the goggles I had before weren't any good, but they just fogged up. I've tried so many. And it's been a game changer. And ironically, my swims in the last couple of triathlons have been, uh, my best swims, and I haven't done hardly any swim training, which is even more remarkable. It's just that anxiety, uh, of not seeing where you're going, I think. Um, it's, it's a whole new world of relaxed swimming.

We've partnered with Effortless Swimming to offer you, our community, an exclusive 15% discount on the NanoClear goggles. Use the link in the description to shop and get that 15%. Discount. And I'll throw it to you, Tom, because I think both of you have used the goggles. But Tom, welcome to the episode, and I believe you've had some great experiences. Plus you handed a pair off to the world champion Christian Blumenfeldt.

Um, yeah, been absolutely loving the goggles. Brenton down at Kidney Park in Geelong had been using them for the last little while, and the squad down there have all been big fans. Um, yeah, when Christian was down in Geelong, he was very interested seeing the goggles and he'd sort of been scoping out a few different options, not having a goggle sponsor as such. So he was giving them a crack and actually, yeah, ended up grabbing my partner Soph's for race day, I believe, that he loved throughout the race and obviously had a great day out there. I think teed up with Brenton to get a few for the rest of his season and travels beyond Geelong. So yeah, the best in the world using them, so what more can you ask for?

So Roland, we'll throw to you. Welcome to the episode. And I want to dive straight into the, the, uh, kind of roller coaster that was Cairns. And there's a lot to discuss here, but, but I want to go through your, your Ironman races so far. You debuted as an amateur, first Ironman in 9:06 at Busso. That was a very remarkable first Ironman attempt. And then your pro debut at Cairns last year was, was 9:46, and that is a day to forget for yourself. But I'll get you to kind of explain, uh, the difference. And then you've come back this year for some redemption. So how are you feeling coming back to this race and, and ready to kind of redeem yourself for last year?

Yeah, I think I had something to prove to myself more so than anything, and like, I was sort of hoping that third time will be the charm for me. Um, uh, but yes, I mean, as you said, third time, do crack at it. And I think, uh, I definitely had something to prove to myself going in, you know, to follow up from my previous attempt up at Cairns when things went horribly wrong. Which I think we, we hadn't heard about last year. So I had a lot of ambition and a lot of hope in, in this effort this time, especially within some of the training that we had been doing. So I was really excited to go up there and have a crack, especially lining up with Tom, it being his first, you know, crack at the full distance triathlon as well, full Ironman. Certainly got me pretty fired up to have a you know, the, the best sort of day that I could have gone and had as well.

You were both training the absolute house down, and I want to bring it back to a week or two before the race, uh, because the form you guys came into that race in was phenomenal. And, and I think, Dad, I actually want to ask you this question. You were quietly, you know, very, very confident in both the boys' form, um, and you were confident that A, Roland was going to definitely redeem himself and then some, and Tom was going to have a pretty good debut Ironman, uh, based on all the data you were seeing?

Absolutely. And, uh, I think we didn't really, uh, touch on Western Sydney, uh, the pre-race buildup. And, uh, both guys had, you know, really solid days. It's probably, you know, probably, uh, as close as they've been at the— to the pointy end of the pro field. Um, and so on top of that, uh, the numbers they were doing in training, um, all led us to believe that, uh, we were going to have an outstanding day. It was a matter of, uh,, you know, who was gonna beat who on the day, uh, because they, they were so, the numbers were so good and, um, I, I, yeah, I was, I was super confident.

Yeah.

Just to touch on Western Sydney, uh, both of you had your first, uh, top 10 placings, uh, for, for a full race. Um, Roland, you were 8th, I think, and Tom were 10th. Um, and yeah, both performed very well across the board, rode very even 1:59, so sub-2-hour 90-kilometer rides, which is just, you're just doing that so consistently in a race. And then both had incredible runs off that. I think, Tom, you were 1:13. And Roland, you're 1:14. Is that, is that correct for both of you?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

Around there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So phenomenal races in the lead up to Cairns. But yeah, what we talk about a lot on the, on the podcast is, uh, you're transitioning your, your training form and your training numbers into the race. And, and at Traveller, we love to do some final testing as part of the taper to see where your form is at. Um, and we had a bit of an interesting contrast for both of you, and it's so good that you guys are doing this journey together because, um, I know we joke about the rivalry a lot on this, but it's very much a friendship over a rivalry. But you're often just so near each other and everything, and you have a lot to compare to. And Roland, you came out and you did a 60-minute TT a week out, and you've just absolutely blitzed it. It was 416 watts, a monster 416 watts for 60 minutes. It's easily your biggest 60-minute by a fair chunk, and 46.5 k's an hour. So firstly, that must have felt pretty good.

Absolutely.

I mean, I wouldn't know how good I feel comparing it to like Pogačar or Evenepoel, but they're probably doing more watts at half the weight. But, yeah, certainly was a great confidence boost for me. You know, doing PB power number, like, a week out from the race and what felt relatively comfortable for the hour as well. So certainly took a lot of confidence away from that effort and thought that I could, you know, hopefully lead that into the race the following week. More so it was like a milestone to say like, oh, we can sort of judge what sort of power and effort I'm gonna be able to hopefully do for the, you know, the 180 Ks and the Ironman. So yeah, it took a lot of confidence away from that effort. But, I guess I don't wanna just skip ahead too much, but unfortunately didn't quite evolve into the bike. Portion of the race that I was at least sort of hoping to have or expecting to have. So, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, we'll dive into that in a second, talk about whether that was a, you know, a fitness issue, an execution issue, or, or, or the nutrition issue, which was a big story for your day. But, the part I really want to focus on is, is now I can take this to Tom. And Tom, you had also been training the house down. I think you'd run a 35K in the lead up at 3:50 pace. Um, which is just an unbelievable training session. You, you'd done, you know, uh, 180K ride in 4 hours 20 in training, um, which is right on, you know, race pace. You've done multiple 200K rides in that lead-up, um, so you're flying. But then you just hit a bit of a wall kind of 2 weeks out. And, and explain to us, you just kind of felt a bit blunted and you just suddenly just didn't have your legs, um, leading in. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, it all been going really well. It was, uh, I was really enjoying getting stuck into some of the, the longer efforts and that sort of Ironman effort pace, um, was becoming, you know, really comfortable and feeling really strong and sustainable at that pace. But I, uh, I think towards the, the end of that, the week before race week, um, had a sort of, you know, a sort of 6x5 minute threshold type session, um, and just felt like completely, uh, completely blunted. Like I couldn't access my, uh, sort of threshold power range. Um, and you know, some of those, uh, the intervals, I was, you know, felt like I was, you know, riding VO2 for sort of below my normal threshold numbers and really suffering. Um, not able to ride in position, had to end up having to sort of stand up just to sort of get through the session and get out of the saddle to try and scrape some power together. But I think I'd, yeah, probably just, just reached the end of, uh, the tether in terms of my training block. Um, I was still feeling really strong, like, aerobically and in all the, even the Ironman pace stuff, but felt like I was just missing that sort of top-end sharpness. Even sort of around threshold numbers, I was starting to struggle a little bit to hit those consistently. So yeah, it was a little bit of a small blow to the confidence. I had a good chat with Gerard Donnelly to steady the ship. But yeah, it took a lot of confidence from all the very race-specific work that I'd done, which kept the mind at bay. And fortunately, yeah, ended up coming good. Just recalibrating the next couple of days leading to race week with both, you know, confidence but also the freshness needed for a full Ironman.

Yeah, it's a bit of a scare, isn't it though? Like, you've done all this training, you start panicking and going, have I overdone it? What's happening? Am I going to get my legs back, you know, before the race? So Dad, how do you approach that, especially when, you know, he's feeling this bluntness? You've got some testing that you want to do, but you don't want to overpush him, uh, and then he's just watching Roland do a 416-watt 60-minuter and and you can't help but compare to, to someone that you're always even with. So what was your thought process as a coach, and what were you trying to get across to Tom?

Yeah, we've had a few issues along the journey, which you would expect. You know, not every training week and block goes well, um, and Tom and I have had experienced this exact same thing, um, before, and we both knew that, uh, just some easier training really, uh, helped a lot. And coming into the testing morning, I actually couldn't sleep that night because I was thinking of after— I think Roland had done his on the Saturday, if I remember properly, and so had Matt Phillips, and they'd both ridden the house down. And I was thinking, oh no, Tom's actually going to see this and he's just going to go, right, that's the goal, that's the target. And so anyway, I think I rang you at 5 something, Tom, was it?

Luckily I got up earlier than usual, probably to do my time trial, but it was nice to be thought of.

And I was pretty clear that I wanted him to start very conservatively and not chase Roland's number or Matt's number. And Matt had ridden 45 or 46 k's an hour as well for 60 minutes. So, so here we are, Tom's, you know, got two of his Tri Velo Partners riding the house down, and I just wanted him to just to not think about that, but rather execute according to how he felt and start conservatively and give himself a chance to actually have a good training confidence-boosting session. And, oh, the rest was history on that day. Explain what happened that day, Tom.

Yeah, yeah. Fortunately, um, as we'd sort of planned, started super conservatively the first, you know, 10 or 15 minutes. Um, I do sort of like two 30-minute long 15 minutes out, 15 minutes back, so a 30-minute lap. Um, 2 of those for the 60-minute effort out on, uh, Blackgate Road near Bowen Heads there. And, um, yeah, pretty much knew after the first turnaround that things were going pretty well and I could start to, you know, slowly progress. But I'd still sort of removed any expectations of going for a PB or anything like that. But the legs sort of just started to come better and better. And, you know, differently to earlier that week where my heart rate had been really blunted as well, like I couldn't get my heart rate going, um, and just felt like I was really stuck in a, like, a lower gear. You know, the heart rate was responding well, and I felt like I could, you know, finally look to push the legs, and the body, um, the body and the whole system respond together. So yeah, I think I ended up doing pretty much, you know, within a watt of my best 60-minute, or might have been equal with my best 60-minute power. So it was, um, yeah, a, uh, a relief of a turnaround, to say the least, having seen Roland and, uh, And Matt put out some, some scary numbers and, and super speeds the, the day prior for sure.

You know your own data very well because it was within a watt, but it was actually faster than, than that previous power. So you did 366 watts last year, but it was 44.4 k's an hour, and then you did 365 for 45.5. So obviously a faster result is, is always nice, but I'm, I'm just so impressed about how that came about. You started at 340. You know, which for most athletes, when we tell them to start 25 watts below what they could potentially do, it's such an ego blow and it's, it's really hard to do. And you did that and Gerard wanted you to do that because, uh, just in case that you just have a leg still and, and you had to do a 350 effort, that was still going to be okay. But you ended up finishing your last 15 minutes at 390 watts, you know, and, and almost getting a PB, which is quite a remarkable result. And, and Deb, we talk about this all the time, you know, this is the value of just, of just knowing your numbers and, and it's a test isn't just about your maximum test and, and getting a PB every time, although that's what we'd hope for after a good block. It's, you know, you were, you were very happy if Tom didn't PB that just to try and see, you know, okay, well, where's your form really at? We're a week out, you know, it's not just about, uh, a maximum, um, wattage PB, seeing that number every time. Sometimes it's a bit of a different goal, which is what you were trying to explain to him at, at 5:00 AM that morning.

Yeah, exactly right. And, um, that's the important thing that most, uh, most age groupers don't really understand. And, you know, for a guy who's a professional to have his coach say that, you know, you need to start conservatively and, and forget about expectations here and just come through the session. And, and I think I said, yeah, it doesn't matter about the power, you just ride to how you feel. And, and if you don't feel like you can push after 15, 20 minutes, then stay where you are. And, and look, in hindsight, when I look back, a lot of the times where we are getting, feedback information about how our performances are outside is really clear-cut because you've got, you've got no interference from Bluetooth, from, from indoor training, technology issues. And, you know, if the PowerMate is working, the speed can be, really um, exactly ratified by the power you're doing. Whereas indoor— and I think that, or if I can— I don't know if I remember properly, but I think that session you did was indoor on Tuesday. And, and I just— sometimes the power meter is just not reading properly. And, you know, when you feel like you're riding VO2 and the numbers are showing you it's at threshold, you're probably right, you are riding at VO2 because the numbers are not being So there's, there's an issue there in itself. And that, that's a really blow to the confidence. And it's not your fault. It's probably technology. And so, you know, we still did the right thing by, by starting conservative. But the point about all of that is that, you know, the feel you have is only going to be dictated to by what you're seeing on, on the screen. And if, if you feel like it's hard, it's because it is. And you can't always trust the power meter. We've just learned that so many times, that the power meter can be wrong and the feelings are more important than what the number is. So if you feel like the number is unsustainable, it's probably because it's wrong. And I think that's key, a key thing to remember.

I'd almost say that even if that's not the case, you know, that is a very plausible option a lot of the time. It could be also what Tom said, where you just had the end of your tether, you just had to done a huge block and your body was just exhausted and threshold felt like VO2 to you. And it doesn't really matter what the exact reason is. The, the fact is you can't ride how you want to, um, for X, Y, Z. But it's, it's important for an athlete to say, okay, this isn't— I haven't just lost form. This doesn't mean that the training program hasn't worked, which a lot of people go to. They go, I'm not fit, or, or this is a disaster, or all the work I've, I've done is, is out the window. That's just absolutely not the case. Something is up. You're, you're overtrained, you're overfatigued, the power meter's wrong, you're indoor, something. But that's not a true indication of good form. And so then to do that, the test the way you did, and get that confidence back— I think, Dad, you said on the Tuesday after the testing and leading into the race, you go, you know, thank God we were able to just, you know, settle and not panic there and, and, um, have a conservative execution. And Tom, you probably got a lot of confidence back from that leading into the race.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And, um, as I said, having had that conversation with Gerard beforehand, I'd sort of already, you know, adjusted that even if I ended up doing this, you know, 60 minutes and just executing it well and, you know, practicing riding in my position, everything at Ironman power, which like I knew I was certainly going to be able to do, that's still a good practice session if that's what it came to at the end. So like at worst it was going to be 60 minutes practice at my sort of Ironman power if things really panned out that way. Um, so to then sort of have that as my baseline and, you know, be able to gradually throughout the effort and then reflecting on it afterwards have, uh, executed well and done something I was really pleased with. It was a big boost and sort of flick of the switch going into race week with a nice little confidence boost for sure.

The one thing, Gerard, I wanted to say as well is, you know, one bad session doesn't make a training block. We've said that so many times. And by Tom starting conservatively, I know we're talking about one specific training session here, but he ended up riding the second half of that ride, the second 30 minutes at 384 watts at something like 45 45.8 or something like that, nearly 46 k's an hour, which is where his form was indicated to us the whole of the last 3 or 4 weeks. And for him to ride a training ride, 180 k at 4:20, you know, it was only 2 minutes slower than he rode at Cairns, which is a different course. It's very hilly. And plus, he crashed at Cairns, so he lost a bit of time there. But, you know, when you talk about why we do some training sessions, this is really important. Imagine if Tom had have gone a whole weekend without doing that session properly the way we did it and gone into Monday, Tuesday into the race week really not knowing. The last time he rode, he felt shocking. By doing that test, Tom and I laughed about it on the Monday and Tuesday going, "Thank God we went and did that because now you've got such confidence that you are where you wanted to be." Leading into that that race, you know, that, that one bad Tuesday session that you had, that was history, wasn't it? It was, you know, the testing session had overridden it. And that, you know, testing is good for execution, it's good to know where your numbers are, but the confidence you get mentally from that, that just can't be replicated, I don't think.

Yeah. Is that how you felt, Tom? Kind of, you could sleep a bit better during race week?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And I guess it's just nice for it to be you know, back aligned with how I felt like things had been going. And, uh, as Gerard said, and I know as Christian said when he came on the podcast, you know, there's no like one magic session, there's no, you know, one test or anything that's gonna necessarily dictate your performance. Um, but it was just nice to be sort of back on an even keel with, uh, how I felt like things were going. And, uh, because up until that point, been really, yeah, happy with the block and ready to, uh, get into the first, first crack at a full. So it was good to be back on and Yeah, even keel with that for sure.

So you get to the race, you both had, uh, very solid swims. And if you, if there's anything outstanding that I'll, I'll let you say it, but I do wanna jump to the bike because some, some pretty crazy things happened for both of you. And both of you were on for really good bike legs, uh, as we expected with your form. And Roland, essentially you bonked, right?

Yeah, pretty much. Um, I felt really good coming outta the water. Um, I swam really well, like was in a pack where exactly where I wanted to be. And then felt amazing on the bike, actually. Um, was straight into sort of where I wanted to be, pushing some really good power, catching up to the guys up in front of me. I think I'd moved my way up into like at least the top 7 or almost top 5 and was, I think, still crawling back a bit of time. And then just around 60k then, just the wheels just came off and I didn't cramp, but I just lost the, I guess, the, the power in my legs and just felt like I couldn't push, um, anymore. And look, I just was so upset, um, when that happened to me because I was having flashbacks to last year where pretty much the exact same thing had happened, where we had a really, you know, quite good, uh, and confidence-inspiring block before coming into the race. And then, yeah, just for some reason, um, just Yeah, it was a bit lackluster on the day, but I mean, I knew that something was obviously at that moment probably wrong, most likely being my, either my nutrition or my hydration. And I knew that my nutrition had, you know, been on point with what I'd been doing training-wise, because I'd been just doing the same thing and fueling with like the same AMX gels that I knew that I'd been using. So I was quite confident with that.. And knowing that it was likely, probably an electrolyte issue that was hindering my performance at the time, I thought, I'll— we'll see what I could do to try and salvage a bad situation. Because, you know, I had really thought about just throwing in the towel on the bike when it happened again because I was just so upset. You know, this has happened to me again, essentially. But fortunately, Cairns being a point-to-point sort of ride means that no matter what, you actually have to essentially ride back to town. So at that time, I was like, oh, I may as well just limp my way home with my, you know, tail between my legs. And I thought, and in that time, I can just smash as many electrolyte bottles as I can at each aid station. And so I think from that point around the 60K mark, I, every aid station just slowed right down and grabbed about 3 electrolyte bottles and just sculled them every single time. Then grabbed one more to chuck between my arms. And then fortunately after about, you know, 9 liters probably of electrolytes, I think I came, came good. Um, at around that 130K mark on the bike. And pretty much got back straight into the same routine that I was on, you know, 80-odd kilometers before. But unfortunately at that time, I'd already bled about 20 minutes to, you know, the, you know, virtual point I wanted to be at in the race. So, look, it's hard to be too upset when, you know, you've, you can salvage yourself and get back to where you wanted to be, but it was just, super disappointed with, you know, what is seemingly such a silly mistake as, you know, probably getting your hydration wrong. And still not 100% why I had that problem. Maybe it's the water. I know I did speak to quite a few people after the race and they say there's something funny in the Cairns water other than just crocodiles and sharks. So I'm not sure if maybe that had a part to do with it or if a lot of, you know, tinkering and, you know, side quests in the few days before the race. Up in Cairns made me a bit more dehydrated than what I was used to, um, down here on the sunny coast potentially. But, um, it's something I'll certainly be, you know, paying a lot more closer attention to in any future races that I'm doing.

Yeah, you finished with a 4:31, and, uh, Tom, you rode a blistering 4:18. And, and Dad, you would say that you really felt like on the day they were going to finish like they always do, within 1 to 2 minutes of each other, and the first, the start of the ride um, really indicated that. Now, Dad, I want to ask you, for most people they would say, oh well, you know, this is a classic story, you've just overridden the first 60K and then you've bonked. And bonked can mean a general term of, of, uh, nutrition, not enough nutrition, uh, too much water, um, too, uh, too little electrolytes. Like, such a generic umbrella term for bonking. You've just clarified there, Rowan, that it wasn't a food thing, it seemed to really be an electrolyte thing. But, but Dad, what do you— what was your thoughts on that? And the fact that he came back You know, you don't see that very often. Kind of once you're gone, you're gone a lot of the time. And then, yeah, it's pretty remarkable to come back and still salvage that bike ride.

I got to say, I've never seen anybody come back from it. It was quite a testament to someone's motivation and desire to, to actually not have the same thing happen 2 years in a row. And the fact that you're able to ride back at the numbers that you were riding in the first 60K is kind of ridiculous. So you've, you've, you've had, you know, a really good start, a shocking in the middle, and then, you know, once you've got your body back in tune with the right, you know, the right amount of electrolytes, carbs, fluid, you're able to ride back again where you're supposed to be riding. And, and, you know, because I coach both of you, your data I've got, you know, fair and squarely in front of my, my computer. And I know that you're both within 1 or 2 minutes. And most of the time, in all the races you've done in your history, it's been similar scenario. You're between— and Roland's generally fractionally faster than Tom sometimes on the bike. I think that's probably accurate. And here we are, Tom's ridden 4:18 with a crash, which we haven't talked about, which would have cost him probably 2 minutes in momentum. And so probably a 4:16 is a more accurate one. Here we are with Roland riding 4:20. Rowland's riding 4:30. So, so I think Rowland's, you know, probably given up 14 minutes with that period. And for the fact that he was able to ride solidly again is quite amazing. But it's got to have it. When you have a hunger flat, which is another term for bonking, it doesn't matter what the hunger is, whether it's electrolytes, carbohydrates, or, or water. You just can't come back from it, which is, which is unheard of for you to really do that. And, you know, at that, at that intensity I'm talking, a lot of people can, you know, refuel and they can't function the way they were and the way they want to at the level they've been at. So for you to do that is, you know, shows, you know, really good thinking on the, on the spur of the moment. What can I do? How can I salvage this? Problem solving is a lot of the things that you should be trying to practice as well for this exact scenario. You don't want to be in this situation, but you have to find a way out. And, and I was most proud of what you were doing there. And I couldn't actually— when Roland started running, I just couldn't work out why he was so far behind Tom when Tom had crashed. Why was— and I kept— I was jogging beside you for for 5 meters going, you okay? What's happened? So I didn't know what had happened and it just didn't make sense to me. You could be so far behind without a flat tire or something going wrong. So it was quite, quite a bizarre experience for me to be watching both of you. And I actually didn't know Tom had crashed. So, and when I looked at Tom running, he wasn't running like he normally does. He was kind of half limping and he was he was sort of saying to me when he went past me, I kind of strung out. And so the whole thing was quite bizarre when it came to the run because we had no context of what happened on the ride. So, so eventually the story was unfolding, but we didn't find that out till later. So yeah, it was— yeah, I really, you know, I just— I take my hat off to Roland. It was just one of the all-time comebacks to be able to have the mindset to do something about it rather than just I'm destined for another shocker. And he didn't, and he guts it out. And to be able to run a marathon when you've actually had a hunger flat, and for anybody who's had a hunger flat, all you want to do is lie down and go to sleep. You just have no ability to think. Your brain is starved of the nutrients that it needs. And so you don't think well. Your mental thought process is diminished by hunger. A massive percent. So you have to be pretty tough mentally to keep going. And, and, you know, that's one of the things I wanted to really get across to the listeners is no matter how bad things are going, you can still get a result here. And, and for you to finish in the, you know, just— that was one of those races that got away. That's, that's kind of what I want to— I really want to talk about that, uh, for both of them.

Um, yeah, you, you finished with a 2:57 run, so a sub-3-hour marathon, which is just phenomenal. And And on that point, Dad, of the, the, you know, the coming back, uh, I've mentioned the podcast, I live in Indonesia, and any days where I don't get enough electrolytes in, cognitively I'm completely impaired. I don't know if you boys know any, any studies on this, or it wipes me out. It's hard to come back from, even just to keep working throughout the day. As you said that, you actually feel like just crumbling and going to bed, like that's how bad it is if I've trained too much in the morning without electrolytes. There's no way you could start a marathon and run sub-3 hours. So Rowland, that comeback is incredible. You, in terms of your power, you were— you didn't override your power data. The first 60K was exactly where it should be. You were— and you're riding through the field, which is awesome. And then you came back and wrote the same about the back end. That must have been a dark place, that middle 80K. Where were you mentally in, in that? Like, that must have been pretty freaking tough.

Yeah, I was pretty upset. I was quite angry, um, and just, just so disappointed and frustrated. Um, you know, as I said, like, there's not been many times that I've thought about quitting And, you know, I did not finish, just, you know, doesn't really align, you know, with the, you know, how I was brought up and how I was raised and how I like to conduct myself. But, you know, there's probably been the closest I've ever thought about just to quitting because, you know, I thought like, you can't believe this is happening again, and just felt embarrassed, to be honest. Um, but look, I think, you know, I owe it more to, you know, you, Gerard Donnelly, you know, my partner Chelsea and everybody else who supports me to, you know, at least go out there and try and finish off. And, you know, they, they make a lot of sacrifices for me and they put a lot of effort in, you know, and support me along the way. So I think, you know, I owe it to them to at least have a decent crack at it. Um, and as you say, like, Gerard Donnelly, there's always something that you can try and do to try and rectify the situation. So I think I've tried to grab onto that small positive aspect of what I was in the back of my mind. But yeah, certainly for a few k's there, I was pretty upset.

So reasonable. And what were you thinking at kind of 150k and then even coming off the bike for the marathon when you started to ride the same power again? And yeah, what was your mindset? You're going, going, what the hell? I, I'm kind of back here.

Yeah, I was, I was having a look and then I was just trying to catch as many people back as I could. I said, well, look, the damage has been done. All I can do now is you know, get back to the race that I was doing and try and, you know, do the best as what, from what I can at this point. And, you know, I guess the temptation there would be to try and go and override and, you know, claw, claw back time. But I guess that'll just put me in more of a hole later on. And I think we'd worked really hard and I'd done a lot of running and I was quite proud of where my run had been at. And I really wanted to get the sub-3-hour marathon. So I had that on my mind too. So I think at that point I said, well, look, just get, get back to T2 as fast as you can and then just lock in to try and do that sub-3 marathon. It was, you know, sort of where my mindset was at.

The finish you had as well, Roland, was, uh, was, you know, you actually got better towards the end. Um, you probably had a little bit of a, a struggle period through the middle of the race, but you, you actually started to pick people up again, which is, which is a really rollercoaster day, isn't it? You're feeling You're feeling average on the bike, you're feeling great on the bike, then average, then great again. And you're able to ride similar numbers that you did in the first half of the race. And you, you got the group that you caught up and passed, they passed you and got away from you, and then you caught them all back again, which was— it's just such a weird day for you. And then, and then to get off and run, and then, you know, towards the end you're sort of saying, how far ahead is the guy in front of me? And you know, you're actually running out of road because you're running faster than the guys ahead of you towards the end of the race. So it was one of those days where I've never seen someone just have so many highs and lows, but, but it was, it was phenomenal to watch. Um, and it was just one of those days where I really felt that had you rode normally the same as what Tom had ridden, you know, you probably with that run you would have been 5th. Or fourth. And had you not bonked, you definitely would have been fourth because you pretty much did the whole race with, you know, with that hunger issue failing your body. So to be where you finished in the top, in that top 10 or 11, you know, is quite incredible considering what you went through in the day out of that pro field. So you should be super proud, mate. Of, of, you know, your, your willingness to push on. And, uh, and that can't be underestimated. And that's a really good trait to have because if you start going into races where the easy option is to not finish, that becomes a habit. And, and, you know, you don't want to have that. And as you said, it's not how you've grown up. And, and if they're always out there listening, you've got to, you've got to think like that. You know, you're in an endurance sport, and no matter what happens to you on the day you've got to find a way to get to the finish, and whether it's the time you want to or not, the challenge is actually halfway through the race, can I finish this damn thing? And that's actually what you felt like last year was, you know, you know, no matter what's going to happen here, I'm going to finish. And, and so, but this time you actually, you know, people forget that, you know, there's been probably 4 or 5 races where you've been the top bike rider, um, in in the race, in a half Ironman, in a lot of the races around Australia at that pro level. So, you know, this was a really different experience for you to be so far down, you know, especially where Tom's a really good perspective point of view because that's where you normally are together within 1 or 2 minutes. And for you to be 13 or 14 minutes slower is just, you know, ridiculous. And you ended up still salvaging the day. So I know we've talked a lot about that, but I just want to make that point.

Point. Thanks, Stu. It's some kind words you've thrown there, so I appreciate that. But, look, as you guys say, I mean, I can't be too upset with a 4:30 bike ride. I think that's similar sort of time to what I did with my first Ironman down at Busso, which I was stoked with 4:30. So still bloody quick time on the bike. Don't get me wrong, 40k an hour for 180k is fast. Yeah, just certainly not where I wanted to be.. And then, yeah, I guess just coming onto the run, as you say, I think I had something to prove more so to myself just to show that, you know, I can, I know I'm capable of doing this, especially after maybe a bit of a disheartening patch in the race. So, yeah, just, I saw that I'd caught back time and then got some information on the road that I wasn't too far back from, you know, Tom and some of the other guys that were just up ahead. So, I thought I'd lock into that sort of pace that I thought I could hold and yeah, hold on for as long as I could. Yeah.

And let's just set the scene a little bit there because that, that, um, bike comparison is, is super interesting because one, I think it says more about your Ironman debut than necessarily the, the race, uh, at Cairns, how good that debut was. But you've done a 4:31 on a very fast flat busso course with great conditions. No, mind you, but, uh, setting the scene for the Cairns course, it was, it was horrific bike conditions. It was super, super slow. Cairns is usually very slow. You know, most pro athletes are riding 4 to 4:15, um, on a normal course, uh, unless you're Sam Laidlow and you're riding 3:53, which is insane. But, um, every year the Cairns bike average is between 4:15 and 4:30. And, and to really showcase that, Nick Thompson, who is, who is easily one of the top cyclists in triathlon in the world, uh, no doubt, the way he turns up and blitzes through, uh, some, some courses in lightning speed, he rode a 4:12, um, which, and he was the fastest rider of the day. So that shows how tough the day was on a really tough undulating course in humid conditions already. Uh, he actually came off and said, that was the worst conditions I've ever raced in. Uh, I never want to do that again. He said that was so, so hard. Um, so just setting the scene for how tough of a day that was. Um, and yeah, I think, uh, to show that, Tom, you know, you've ridden a 4:18. I think you were the third fastest bike of the day despite crashing. So similar to Roland, you were absolutely on for a day. Um, potentially, as Dad said, I think conservatively the crash cost you 2 minutes, probably more like 4 minutes. Um, you would've been second behind, you know, what is one of the strongest bike riders in the world in Nick Thompson, uh, somewhere between a 4:15 and 4:16 maybe. Uh, so, so what happened, Tom? You were, you were having a great day and, and, and then came off.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was all going, uh, really well. It was, um, I guess sort of reassuring just knowing, you know, coming out from where I do in the swim along sort of 4 to 4 and a half hours ahead, I could just sort of lock into my own ride. Not worry too much about chasing people up the road and things like that. My plan was pretty much just to, as Joe mentioned, I'd done some really good, you know, race pace time trials back home on my own, um, around a similar, similar speed to what I was able to ride on race day. So I was really confident that if I just did my own ride, I'd be able to execute pretty much what I did. Um, didn't felt like I didn't do anything, uh, anything out of the ordinary to normal, but it all just sort of seemed to go really well. It was clearly, um, guarded for a pole and, you know, I mean, I had a fleeting thought that I was, you know, riding faster than maybe I anticipated, but it became clear very quickly that when I passed him, something was wrong and we hadn't just somehow ridden up a miraculous amount of time very quickly. So that was, yeah, pretty flat for him. And it was, you know, even being myself on a really good day on the bike and happy with how things were going, it was certainly very attritional. Some really challenging wind and wet conditions through some of the midsection of the ride. So for Roland to, you know, stay in the race and keep his head throughout a really tough patch in the middle of that ride was, yeah, pretty phenomenal. And yeah, obviously shows the sort of character he's got. But yeah, it wasn't easy even being on a good day for sure. As you mentioned, it was some pretty trying conditions. Yeah, so I was really pleased and sort of I basically set my whole ride up knowing that last final 30k southbound towards Cairns is a net headwind. It's pretty flat. It's pretty much just lock into time trial position and you can make or break a lot of time in that period. And obviously being my first Ironman, although I'd done, you know, some 160, 180k solo time trials, I hadn't done it on a race day before with the full swim beforehand and all these factors. So I tried to treat the distance with the respect I felt it deserved. Essentially having, you know, 60 Ks into blockhead wind, first 30 of that a bit undulating and then 30 K pretty flat into that wind on the way back to Cairns. So knowing that was coming, I tried to stay reasonably conservative, make sure I fueled well throughout the ride. Um, and I was feeling sort of better and better as the ride went. Um, really felt like I was starting to hit my, uh, not stride, but hit my pedal stroke smoothly. Um, coming into that last 30 K and started to sort of catch some guys that I probably wasn't expecting to be catching on the bike. Um, so guys like Jack Moody, who ended up having a sensational run, so, uh, maybe he just paced it a bit better. But, um, was certainly, yeah, moving up the field a bit more than I probably had even anticipated to on the, on the bike section of the, the race. Um, and certainly hadn't even overridden. I was pretty confident in that. Like, my legs were feeling good, my numbers weren't— they were lower than I'd been doing in training. Um, so I felt like I'd really set myself up for a good day. And, uh, obviously mentioned it previously, but unfortunately, uh, by no fault of anyone but myself, I just came into a roundabout around Yorkies Knob a little bit hot with about 20K or so to go. Um, I sort of got probably just a little bit overexcited knowing I was chewing up the field a little bit, and I could see, you know, people like Matt Burton up the road, and which was, you know, a huge shock for me. Um, you know, one of Australia's, you know, best Ironman athletes might have previously had the Ironman record, and he certainly is a sensational time trial cyclist. Um, uh, albeit he had his own issues on the day. It seems no one comes away from these things unscathed, apparently. But, um, yeah, I felt like I was really firing on all cylinders and probably had my head down a bit too much, was on the power a bit too much, and came into a roundabout and just realized it was actually sort of a, you know, right-hand turn, not a straight through, a little bit late as I was sort of approaching the roundabout with a bit of speed. Uh, and unfortunately, being a wet day, I tried to sort of slow down and hit the brakes and my, uh, just slipped out coming around that corner. So bike went sliding away. Um, unfortunately I was still attached to it, so I was sort of came down on my right side and had a bit of, bit of road rash and things to deal with. But, um, thankfully there was some really, really helpful bystanders who just grabbed my bike, um, once I got unclipped and, and got me up and back on the bike really quickly. So I don't think I was actually on the ground for very long and lost too much time, but I'm like, I tried. I was, yeah, pretty frustrated. And, and it, you know, um, similarly to what Roland's describing, felt like it had all sort of got away a little bit. Like everything was, you know, set up and going so well, and then you feel like it all just unravels, unravels with a silly little mistake. Um, but I, I guess, you know, straight away it was like, well, can't do anything about it now. I've just got to get on the bike. And I was sort of trying to move all my arms around a little bit, just trying to make sure. Like, I broke my collarbone a few years ago, so I was moving that around to make sure everything felt okay. And all did. Um, but I, uh, realized pretty quickly I didn't have my rear brakes anymore. Something in the caliper, like the lever, had snapped, so I couldn't— didn't have any rear braking. That just made for a bit more of a cautious ride on the wet course coming back into town, having to sort of bleed the speed pretty early with the front brakes only. Um, and yeah, I mean, to be honest, I sort of realized pretty quickly as well, like, how fortunate I was that I— if that was going to happen, it happened there and not, you know, 60k behind being 60k from Cairns on an undulating wet course with crazy wind and crosswinds through corners and things like, I probably wouldn't have been able to finish the ride without my back brakes if that had been the case, and certainly not in any sort of competitive position. So I was trying to just take the positives that it was, you know, in the last sort of 20k flat, I could just do my best to get the transition, um, without causing any more issues and try and stay upright. Um, which, yeah, made a bit of a bittersweet to a ride that I was still really pleased with. I knew the net time and the average speed was pretty good, so I felt like I'd still sort of set myself up for a reasonable day and knew I'd not been on the tarmac for too long. So I was hopeful that I'd still be able to execute a pretty good race overall that I'd been quite happy with up until that point. So I didn't want to throw that all away just because of one silly mistake. I know Ironman's a long day, as Gerard Donnelly had been telling me, and things are going to happen throughout to everybody, so you just got to deal with them as they come and try and make the best of it. So I guess that's what I tried to think following that.. But yeah, certainly a bittersweet ride, I guess.

Yeah.

It's, uh, it was a lot of communication mayhem happening because we had a lot of eyes on the ground. Mum and Dad were both there and, and they were sending me updates of all these Travelo athletes coming past. And Mum would send me great 5-second videos of each Travelo athlete coming past on the bike, um, which is so fun because we're tracking, you know, 30+ athletes in the race and on the tracker. It's so exciting to flick through everyone. Uh, but your video, Tom, you've come past the video and you just you're looking down all over your bike, you're kind of, you're kind of checking things. Um, you've come past super slow and Mum's going, I don't know what's happened, but something's happened. And so we're trying to message back and forth for the next half hour, being like, oh, is any update on Tom? Is something happening? And then actually, one of my favorite Travelo photos of all time, I think, is of you running. Um, and it's, it's Dad kind of trying to run next to you to ask you what's happening. Yeah, you're clearly limping, and, and Dad's having a conversation with you straight up going, look, you don't have to finish, you know, or I'd love to know, Dad, what were you thinking once you kind of found out what was happening and what you're saying to Tom?

Yeah, well, I actually didn't know what had happened, and he was just trying to— because it's a lapped course, and so we saw in one direction, then the other direction, so I could actually get pieces of the information. So it turned out that I found out that eventually he had crashed and that he couldn't actually stride out. And I was saying to him, "Well, if you're injured, don't try and run a marathon. You could possibly do way more damage to your body if you're going to run with an injury. Who knows what damage you've done?" Because he'd pretty much taken the fall. Funnily enough, he'd borrowed a disc wheel because his disc wheel hasn't arrived yet. And I said after the race, I said, "Oh, what happened to the disc wheel?" And he said, I took the whole fall and the bike didn't get touched onto the ground hardly. So that shows you how much of Tom's body hit the ground. So that whole side of his hip and arm and knee and, and, you know, it was clearly affecting the way he couldn't run normally because we'd had so many runs off the bike where he was able to run that, you know, at 3:50, 3:45, 3:53 pace. Quite comfortably, and he was really battling to stride out. So the whole conversation was, you know, is it best— is it in your best interest with an injury to keep running? And there was no way Tom was stopping. It was, I'll be fine, it's just I just can't stride out. And so that was kind of the conversation, is, well, what pace can you run with this shortened stride? I think he did a magnificent job. That's why it's so frustrating because, you know, he wasn't able to show what he could do if he had a normal race where he hadn't hit the ground. I just think it was for both of them. They were in such great form that— which I think now, you know, these things happen and there should be, even though there's disappointment, there should still be a lot of confidence that, that you're right there and you're coming. And, you know, guys are going to be worried about you two guys when you actually put it together properly, because, you know, you're both weapons on the bike. You know, your swim's always been a handicap, but in this race you weren't that bad. And one of the things I want to talk about with Tom was we did discuss about, you know, if there's guys up the road, can you get with them? But the way Tom and Roland ride, they don't need other riders. They're better on their own. So why ride hard above your level to catch a group who you're faster than? And I think that's the lessons we've learned over the journey. And Tom's doing this really well now where he just rides his own numbers. And eventually the guys who aren't at the same fitness level on the bike, like a race like Cairns, that last 30K where it's extra into the headwind, you got 60K of headwind. And if, you know, if you're really a good bike rider, that's the time to make up time. And that's exactly what Tom was doing. And so they're the things that I think for anybody listening, stay with your own numbers, even if you're a professional. Don't worry about the other riders. And Matthew Marquardt said the same thing on this podcast when he won Ironman South Africa. Just rode his own numbers all day. And, and if that's, if that's good enough to win, fantastic. Why would you try to ride above yourself and cause chaos for your own race? And Tom proved it in this race that if he stayed to his numbers, he will eventually catch the field. And that might not happen against Christian or against, you know, any of the other top 3, 4 athletes in the world, but for the majority of pros who aren't at that elite level, it's like riding against Pogačar. You just can't match him. So you want to try to beat the rest of the best of the rest. And I think that's a really good message the way Tom did this event. And it's unfortunate that he wasn't able to run to the form that he had. And that's the kind of thing that is frustrating, but there's always another race. And and you'll get a chance to prove yourselves. And despite the fact that you both work full-time, you know, and most of the other pros have got a lot more recovery period, you're doing a great job at the moment with the time you have available. And, and, you know, you shouldn't forget that. And it's kind of an unequal playing field you're racing against, but you're doing a great job considering what's, what's happening around you in your world. So, yeah, so my summary is it's, it's just one of those days that I think you had an opportunity here to, to get a really good result and, and things happen and you, you know, you've gotta hit, take it on the chin.

Yeah, that's, that's racing, I think. So Tom, you finished with a 3:11 and you still finished in 13th spot, which is, which is really, you've salvaged that. And Roland, you were 11th. Both were really in shape to be, to have pretty high, your best probably results you've ever had in an Ironman. And, you know, Roland, if things had gone your way, it would, it would be a great redemption and Tom, it would've been an incredible debut. But you could really only manage 4:32 pace, Tom, when, when your Ironman pace is more like 3:50. And I think you and Dad had, had gone out with a plan to try and run a 2:48, which you were, were really confident. All the data showed you could do that and you felt like that in coming to that last 20K, but you ran a 3:11. So that's a monster, monster gap. Did you, did you, I mean, you can always say what if, but did you really feel like you had that 2:48 in you? Um, spot the crash if you did have it?

Yeah, I mean, it really is a should've, should've, could've, would've reason. Like, I'm obviously never gonna, uh, never gonna say I could, but I was really confident in my running coming in. Um, it's obviously hard to know how the conditions will affect things. Um, that I've been sort of like overpacing in my training a little bit compared to what I was actually anticipating to run. Well, not overpacing, but I was, uh, you know, I had adjusted expectations for running around that sort of 2:50 mark hoping to just sneak under that, if all being well. And I've been training, you know, a good chunk faster than that, so I felt like even despite the conditions, hopefully that would be a good target. You know, I started pretty conservatively the first sort of 4 or 5K on the run, more like 3-hour pace, which I felt like really was actively just giving myself time to let the body come round and just hoping that things would loosen up and I'd be able to stride out. Unfortunately, just progressively went the other way and it became pretty, uh, pretty uncomfortable just to put one foot in front of the other and trudge along. But my sort of— it was funny how quickly the expectations receded, you know. Initially I was like, okay, hopefully just start conservative, you know, be able to build to my pace. And then I realized pretty quickly that running 3 hours would be a really good result. So that sort of became my new goal. Even going through halfway, I think I was maybe like around a, say, 4:14, 4:15 average. So I knew I was sort of on pace for about 3 hours if I could hold on. And sort of build towards the end. And then very quickly that became like, okay, now it's 3:05 and trying to do the maths and 3:10, and it was just slowly sliding. So, um, honestly, like, I ran as fast as I possibly could have on the day. Like, every kilometer— of Gerard mentioned before, like, it's an endurance event— I was sort of just saying to myself, like, can I endure, like, the discomfort that I'm going through right now? And I was like, seemed like a long way to go, but like, that kilometer, I was like, yes, okay, I can just do like you know, this next sort of get to the next aid station and then reassess. And unfortunately the pace just slowly slid with that, which was very frustrating. Similarly to Roland's ride, just not being able to sort of, you know, express what you felt like you had in the tank. But I was having those on-course conversations with Gerard and others out there. And similarly to what Roland said, you know, it's embarrassing when you feel like you're out there racing, but you can't do the performance that you feel like you're capable of. You know, you're obviously not stopping to explain what's happened to every person. So you feel like people looking at you like, what's going on? Or telling you to try and rally. I'm sure she won't mind me saying it. So I've called out on the last lap as Roland had, you know, put 3 minutes into me in about a k and a half, like, oh, Roland's only 3 minutes up the road if you've got anything left. I just like shook my head like, I'm not sure if I'm going to make it to the far turnaround at the moment. But yeah, disappointing to not be able to do what I'd hoped. I think that, yeah, there was good conversation with Gerard Donnelly shortly after. There was no point dwelling on like the time or anything. I'm not feeling as though that sort of reflected the block that I had. But similarly, very eager for a chance to actually demonstrate that on the racecourse and not just in my training. So plenty learnt, but I was pleased to be able to, you know, at least put a line in the sand for my first Ironman. Um, having, you know, I had a swim and ride that I was pretty happy with, and I was— I guess that was what was really driving me to get through, despite also, you know, not wanting to have a DNF next to the name, but just to be able to actually put a mark out there and, um, you know, have that swim and ride and, uh, I guess the build culminate to something as a result, as opposed to just, uh, just tanking it and not being able to get get a result on the board at all.

So well said. I, I'm just so inspired by both you boys. It's just, this, this was the best race from both of you, which sounds really weird for me, but I just, I just absolutely loved hearing about how the story unfolded and seeing, you know, how much you've just been dominating training. And it didn't quite turn out in the day, but for me, that doesn't matter. It's just such good signs for what's to come. And I actually had it in my notes, Tom, the exact same thing. I said, I don't want this episode to be, oh, you, you would have, could have, should have. You know, that's not the lesson here. That's not what the message is.

That's not what we're about at Tribella.

You know, it's not like, oh, 'Oh, if you had your day, you know, you would have done this.' That's not why we're saying all this stuff. It's just important to give context because that's racing. Ironman racing, especially Ironman racing, it encompasses everything. And every single athlete has something going wrong. They're dealing with some sort of problem, you know. And it happened to be yours was a crash, Roland's was electrolytes. And every athlete out there is going through something. So you can't blame it on just that and say, um, 'Oh, if this didn't happen, I would have done better,' because everyone's going through that. And, and that's the challenge of Ironman racing. All the elements. It's not just how good is your fitness. But for us, that's not the lesson we're trying to say. The lesson we're taking from this is, wow, you guys were really on for a day. Didn't go your way for some other, other things, but your fitness was there and your ability was there. And for me, that is just so exciting. And I think, Dad, I want to throw to you and just say, I think that was, you know, what you were so excited about as well, that, that it just— even though it didn't go quite right and things went wrong, we're just going, wow, you guys are in great shape. Relatively so early in your career. And, you know, Rowan, that was your second Ironman as a pro, and Tom, your first. So yeah, your thoughts, Dad?

Yeah, as I said before, it's just super exciting, the future that you've got, um, uh, in the sport, uh, where we got you to a level where you're now very competitive. And, and it's just a matter of time now, uh, there'll be, there'll be races like this where things just don't go to plan, um, It's all in the bank of memory, of experience, and it'll help you down the track. There's so many examples in the world of sport where people have had such bad experiences and it culminates one day in a great outcome. It feels more special when you've had a lot of issues along the way and in previous races because when it finally happens, you know, it just means so much more. I mean, I think that's the takeaway is, you know, you've got a taste of— you're right there now and the journey is almost just beginning because you're both quite young and you've got a lot of racing ahead of you and it's just one of those races. We like to talk about these races to give context of what happens and just to give the experience so a lot of the age groupers can understand that if it happens to guys who are at the professional level, it's more than likely going to happen to them. So, so I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned. And the way you carried yourselves and never complained and never said, oh, this is what happened to me, straight away, it was like extracting teeth to try and get information about, well, you know, um, you know, you just had no excuses. Both of you had no excuses. It was, you know, that's what happened on the day. And finally I got the information after the race about what really did happened. And I love that attitude of, um, I did the best I could with, with what happened to me, and, and I have no excuse. And, um, you had reason to say, you know, whatever excuse you wanted because they were true, they were real. But, but that's not the way you are. I think that's a real testament of, uh, of how, you know, you hold yourself in. And I think a lot of other athletes see how genuinely nice guys you are, and you're never talking about yourselves and never promoting yourselves much, and, and you're never complaining about things not going your way. And I think that's a great trait to have. And, and your days will come, and if you just keep putting the work in that you're doing, uh, you know. And look, after the race, 10 days later, Roland did one of the, one of the more famous bunch rides around Australia called the, the Noosa World Champs Ride, and, uh, he actually absolutely blew the the bunch apart, which was, you know, the form that he was in, you know, 10 days later, he's still there. And, you know, he just finished an Ironman. It was literally the Tuesday. I think it was a whole week and then the following Tuesday. And, and that to me is just, you know, an example of how, how good you were in that period of that, that last 4 to 6 week period. So, so yeah. Don't be too disheartened, guys, because your, your time will come.

Yeah, look, on, on the pro kind of, um, mistakes note, it will keep happening. You just look at KB and how he started the season this year where he had some sort of stomach issues or stomach bug in race 1, and it looks like, oh, here we go, KB's vomiting again, you know, on a bike ride. But it's almost like it's happening 1 in every 5 races for him, and then he wins the other 4. And so you guys will keep ironing out the kinks and getting things right the more races you do, and And, you know, if it's still happening to guys like KB, then it can happen to anyone. But Roland, I want to throw to you to, to, um, give us your kind of your take-home message about it's been a month since the race. What's, what's your take-home lesson from that? How do you reflect on it? And your thoughts on the kind of the electrolytes as well and ironing out that kind of kink.

Yeah, I think for a while there I was pretty upset. I think just because of a no of what, you know, as I said, what could have been. Um, and as Tom said, you can't really think along this, you know, could have, should have, would have, and what would have been had this not have happened. Because, you know, as you say, everybody probably had that circuit circumstance about the race. So, um, you know, I think I took a lot of confidence away from, you know, the performance that I had, um, on that day and saw it as a great step forward. I mean, when I first started doing, you know, triathlon, I first joined with you guys, I saw, you know, the, you know, even some of the top age groupers and the professionals doing, you know, that 8:30, 8-hour time for an Ironman. I thought that that was ridiculous and I would never be capable of doing something like that myself. And, you know, lo and behold, you, you know, you've shown me the way and, you know, I've been able to try and get up to that level. So, um, it's just, you know, even if, you know, taking a step back and looking at it like that, you know, it's something that I think I can be pretty proud of. Um, you know, I've certainly got a bit more hunger to, you know, go forward from here and, you know, try and eke out and, you know, maybe do something special. In some of the races coming up.

And Tom, similar to you, I mean, yeah, what's the take-home kind of lesson you think reflecting on a month from then?

Yeah, yeah, I think it's, as I sort of mentioned, you know, no one comes out of an Ironman unscathed, it seems. And I think that's part of the challenge and the joy of it, that it's, you know, maybe not in some ways as, you know, pure speed-oriented or doesn't lean maybe quite as much into, I guess, like a, you know, talent sort of aspect. There's obviously a hell of a lot of talent with the fastest guys in the world, but there's also a large aspect of just, you know, the attritional nature of it, dealing with the inevitable challenges that are going to come along the way. And that's sort of what makes it fun and a challenge in itself to try and execute as best you can with the cards you're dealt on the day. And I think, you know, even The guys who do the world records and the fastest times in the world, I'm sure there's things that still don't go 100% perfectly for them. You know, there's always— there's never such thing as that perfect elusive race that everyone's chasing. But it makes it really exciting and it's really, really satisfying to be able to attack something like that, you know, as your own individual goal. Yeah, I'm pretty keen to hopefully, you know, see if it's the distance that suits me a little bit better, potentially long term. And yeah, I guess it's all just fuel for the fire to see see what we can do down the track. But, um, yeah, as we've, you know, mentioned, and watching the Tour at the moment, there's obviously been some big names who've had to go home, and it puts it in perspective. Like, I still came back and, you know, went to work on the next week, and my life goes on. It's not like I'm, you know, on the front page of some sports magazine about the disaster my season's been and everything like that. So when you put it in perspective, you know, having, uh, you know, a few little things not quite go your way, um, and a lot of other positive things going on, it's, uh, it's not the end of the world and, and life goes on, which is, uh, which is nice to have that balance. Um, and also, yeah, you know, the, I guess, the, the relief from the, the pressure of, uh, of it all relying on that sort of one result that I'm sure some of those, you know, world-class top, top athletes feel when, when their sort of whole livelihood and their, you know, whole life to that point is riding on a result, and I'm sure that'll be a much more bitter pill to swallow. But, uh, yeah, certainly came for a, for an opportunity to have another crack over the full distance.

No, from my perspective, you boys are absolutely flying and it's so enjoyable to watch. And, and I know that a lot of people are positively invested in your story and your journey. You know, we get a lot of people commenting saying they love these, this series and, and the insight into into your racing. And, and I'm just so excited for, for where you guys are going to go from here. And I know we've joked a little bit about on the podcast over the series, you know, the fact that you're juggling, you know, competing so well, uh, with your full-time jobs as doctors. And it was so great to have Matthew Marquardt on the podcast last month and use him as a bit of inspiration as well, because, uh, we, we have— we, we say, Jess, sometimes it's a bit of handicap, but, um, it's also a little bit of an advantage for you that you're not all consumed by it yet so early in your career. And Um, you have that bit of balance. Uh, I think that's— he showed that as well, that you can really compete at the highest level and still have your full-time job as doctors. And that's what he's doing. And, uh, it's not always a full handicap, although it has to be said that, you know, we know a lot of the pros are training the house down, doing a 6-hour session in the morning and then putting their feet up and recovering and then potentially doing a double session that night. Whereas you guys are doing monster Ironman sessions, which if anyone that's trained for Ironman and knows how long they are and knows how tough they are, A lot of the age groupers out there know what it's like to go work a shift after that, and you guys are finishing a 4-hour Ironman pace ride at race pace and then getting on your feet and working a 10-hour shift. Like, it's bloody hard, but you're managing it really well, and it's working right now for— right, really well for you right now, which is super inspiring for a lot of people, I think. So, Dad, did you have any final words before we wrap up this episode just on that?

No, I only wanted to say that, you know, The story that happens, that's part of the event, isn't it? You know, you'll remember these races for positive things and for negative things, and that's the joy of it. It's just not all about race day. It's about the preparation and getting yourself ready and, you know, just continuing to learn from these experiences. I know that sounds very cliché, but if you don't learn from from the experiences, you can't, you know, reset and get the next race better. And I think that's the key thing, is, you know, that Roland can work on trying to work out what's going on with the nutrition. Tom can practice his bike handling skills a little bit better in the wet. And, you know, there's a— you know, we joke about that, but, you know, there's lots of things that you can take from your experiences, good and bad. And we always say you learn more from, from the poor and negative experiences you have than from, uh, from winning. And, uh, winning's great, but, but that's not what it's all about. It's all about, you know, preparing properly and giving it your best shot on the day. And, and whatever the outcome is, you know, you have to be happy if you've given it your all. And I think this is a race where you both did that, and you've shown that No matter what happened, you managed to get to the end in a very respectable position considering, you know, what happened to you during the day. So, you know, to finish off, it's just I'm really pleased with, uh, with that race, and, and it just shows the future's nice and bright for both of you.

Chapeau to all three of you, the athletes and the coach. It's a great journey to watch. I'm, I'm absolutely loving it. If you'd like to learn how Tom and Roland train and race and and how they've improved so much and, and the Traveller system that they use, well, you could listen to the last 350 episodes or so of this podcast because we do, we do talk about exactly what we do on the podcast and we've done it a lot with this series with these two. But, uh, if it's not working for you and you'd like some improvement, uh, then go to our website, travellacoaching.com.au, and apply to get coached there and we'll take you through the exact Traveller system that all our athletes get to get dramatic improvement and, and consistent improvement, which is what we're all about. So thank you very much for listening to this episode. Tom and Roland, thank you as always for giving us your generous time when your schedule is so packed. We love this series, and we'll see everyone in the next episode.