#3: Inside the mind of Ex-Olympian Julian Paynter

Hello, everybody.

It's Jordan here and welcome to the third episode of the Trivelo Coaching Podcast. This is a bit of a different episode. We actually recorded this a while ago as part of a interview series for our Trivalo athletes only. But we have decided to upload it onto this podcast series because it was a really valuable interview. And I actually don't feature in this interview. This interview, normally I'm interviewing our head coach, Jared, my dad, but this time Jared actually interviewed ex Olympic athlete Julian Painter. And it was a really exciting interview. Julian gave some absolute nuggets of stories and information of what it takes to be an athlete at the highest level and exactly what took him there. So, really looking forward to this episode. Jump on in, have a listen to Jared and Julian's interview and we'll see you in there.

Welcome, everybody, to the fifth episode, I think, of the Monday wrap, Trivelo Coaching. Really excited to introduce a really special guest and a good friend of mine, Julian Painter. Welcome, Julian.

Thanks, Jared. Thanks for having me.

Fantastic. For those of you who don't know who Julian Payna is, he's first and foremost a member of the Giant Celtic race team, but I could have said he's an Olympian. And I gave everybody the kudos for last week that Julian was going to be on board. And I'm really pleased that he's agreed to discuss some of the real things that he experienced. The Olympics, as everybody knows, is the highest event possibly in sport. And to have Julian as a part of our team, as a cyclist in the Giant Celtic Masters road team, and to have his experience in our team is something that we really value. And we're really pleased to be able to have this opportunity to talk to you, Jules, about what it took to get to the Olympics. Number one, what was the experience like at the Olympics? How did you deal with the nerves of the anxiety of the whole nation watching you, the pressure of that event and what it took for you to get there? That's probably the two things I want our Trivala coaching athletes to really understand about. You know, we can't get a bigger event than the Olympics. And look, sure, we've all got smaller little events that we try and race towards that are very important in our lives. And we have anxiety with that, we have preparation for that, but this is probably the ultimate. So really want to get inside your mind and see how you dealt with that.

Yep, no problem. Happy to help.

So to start off with really just a little bit of history about what your upbringing was, what sports you Played where you're from. First of all, introduce yourself a little bit, Gilles, to the listeners.

Yeah, I grew up in Maui in country Victoria and little athletics, soccer, football, played representative soccer. And then I was just lucky enough at around year nine, I wasn't doing any athletics and I made a state cross country team and I was the last person picked and I went and got coached. There was a local legend, Joe Carmody, that used to coach down at the track at Newborough and went and trained with him. And I started training with him in mid May, and the nationals were in May, mid August, and we trained really hard. And at the same time I was doing soccer and football.

Was it an event that got you in year nine that you did well in, that made you think, I want to try out for the cross country, or you just.

Naturally, I was just at that right age, you know, where kids are at the top end of the age group. And so I won, you know, I won my school cross country, I won the zone, the region, and then went to the state titles and finished 8th and I was the last person picked. And so I thought, oh, I better do some training, I'm going to nationals. And that was all big and exciting. And so trained really hard and went to Sydney and I finished eighth at the state titles and I went to the nationals and I finished eighth and I was the second Victorian. And so I'd gone from a lot of team sports and had good success, but all of a sudden it was like, if I put in, I'll get the results. And so then that next summer, just ran for Glen Huntley, ran for my local track club, Yallourne, Newborough, and pretty much athletics was the path from there on.

That success, initial success, gave you the idea that you were keen to pursue that and the soccer and the footy and the other sports, you'd done that enough. And now you are sort of thinking, right, I've got a little bit of a career here.

Don't know about a career, but I think, you know, it was. I played. I was in like junior squads for football. I only played football for a couple of years and then I was a soccer player and played for Vic country at that level at state championship level and tried out for the state squad once. But then all of a sudden I was in the Victorian team and I was competing at the nationals. And then that next, that next summer I went to the national junior titles and got, I think, second in the 800 and third in the 1500 and fifth in the 3K and got to travel to Hobart. So all of a sudden there was these trips and these things were happening, and it was pretty cool. Yeah, you're sort of 15 and traveling around and. But. And we trained with Joe and we had an amazing group of kids just from that Maui area.

Yeah. I want to talk to you about Joe Carmody. And look, I grew up in Warigal, which is only 20 minutes away from Moe, and I know Joe Carmody as a coach and my dad knows him. And so it's quite intriguing because I was watching you as a junior come through the ranks, and Julian was a standout, and my younger brother raced against Julian. And we would be saying, how are we going to beat Julian Painter? And it was near impossible because he was such a standout in the local community of Latrobe Valley. But the thing I wanted to ask you about was when that group and squad got together, do you think that was the turning point, being coached with a program that included others who you were competing against?

To a degree. I mean, it was still. The training was still fairly individual, but the group runs were, you can imagine, juniors. They weren't easy. So it was like Joe would drop us off and he would go, I'll see you at your lawn North. And it was just. Everyone would take off. The training was very specific, and we didn't actually run on the track as a group. And what used to happen is, say we were doing a 200 meter program, and you had a 200 meter rep in a certain time with a certain recovery. And so other people would start either just after you, and then they would be catching you. And they were meant to be doing the same time as you, but it was just this little thing of this challenge. So they might be slicing a second or two off their recovery and just getting closer and almost made them look like they were being better. So it was very competitive at training. And the most competitive days we would go for Joe would pile everyone in the cars and there'd be a load of us go down to Wilson's Prom and we would run all day. And those runs might be a 12k run to start the day. And it was straight out at Derby river. And anyone that'd been down there, it's straight up a hill and running down to Tongue Point and up over the Sparks Lookout and then sand Dunes and then lunch and then another run, and then we'd do a time trial up to the top of Mount Oberon. And the most common competitive run was the one at the end of the day. It was along Whiskey Bay and it would be about a 600 meter time trial and there might be 12 of us. And at one point there was eight of us were state champions at different age groups, different, you know, from 400 metres up to 1500. So. And we, I used to set the handicaps and so there would be about 12 of us charging down the beach off certain handicaps and that was at the end of the day. And in those days we'd run 20, 25 km but at intensity. So they were big training days.

Yeah. Certainly already from a young age you've developed an idea and a notion that to get anywhere you had to do some training. And that would have been so obvious to you from the very first time you ran at the state level, like you mentioned, to the national level. You were eighth at state and yet you came eighth at national, which was second fastest Victorian. So you've improved six places against your state guys. So that incentive for you would have been huge.

And the motivation to that was the turning point. And I think also having Joe, you know, through that period directing, you know, he would pick us all up from school and drivers, we'd come down to Melbourne sometimes three times a week, you know, school athletics. Glenn Huntley, when I was running a grade on a Thursday night at Olympic park and then be down running inter club on Saturday at Duncan McKinnon and. And then competing at Warrigal on a Sunday.

So lots of travel and lots of.

Yeah, travel. But it was great fun. Yeah, yeah, it was good fun. And. And you know, I never felt like I was missing out on anything because, you know, I was traveling, you know, lots of cross country trips and track, you know, all schools, all high, so. And then trying to make junior trips for athletics.

Yep. So obviously it's motivating when you've got a group around you and that's one of the things I wanted to get across to the guys we coach is that it's really important that an individual sport, as we've discussed, but you know, the team and the people around you, such as your coach and the other runners and of course you had high level runners around you that really played an important part and role in your development as a really successful runner.

Yeah, for sure. I mean from growing up in the local area and then when I came to Melbourne I would still, you know, do my training, but the, the group run. So I used to run with the packs. Chris Wardlaw and other guys like Robbie o' Donnell, who was a couple of time national champion and at cross country and there was other guys that used to run with at Fernie Creek on a Sunday. So you used to do your long run in that bunch. And then going to Canberra at the Institute of Sport, there was a fantastic again training group. And then when I came back to Melbourne before the Olympics, Olympics to try and make the Olympic team, it was really important that I had that group. So. So it's always been around having a good training group because that's what is probably motivating for you, that you. It's always a lot easier if, you know, you've got going to meet people. So. And I still find that today with cycling, it's much more motivating if I know I'm meeting somebody or there's a meeting point versus just going out for a ride by myself.

Yeah, yeah. And look what. One of the messages we've been trying to get across to people is that there are certain sessions that are really good with the group, yet there's other sessions. And you would have experienced this because you can't run hard or cycle hard, if we're using two examples every session. And you would have understood that. And the ones, yeah, the group runs were the ones where you wanted to really have guys better than you to push you, and then the ones where you really need to really recover. You don't want to be around other people, you want to actually recover properly.

And that used to be like, you know, when it got up to the full training regime, you know, Fridays were easy day and. And I used to sort of say to people, you know, do you want to go for a run? They go, no, you're way too fast. I said, not on a Friday. Yeah, like that was just an absolute plod type of thing.

And did people get a shock when, if they came with you and thought that, you know, they know what level of runner you are? Yeah, I think see you running slowly. Was that slowly.

And I just. It's active recovery. So that those type of runs were, you know, people would go, you need a rest. But you sort of felt better after having been for a run and getting the body moving again. And even though the intensity is not there, it was.

It was just so a really integral part of your training, wasn't it, that recovery run. So look, moving past a little bit of the history to what got you into running. So let's get a little bit more involved in how you actually decided that, yeah, I think that I could make the Olympic team. Was there a point where you started running well enough to start going through that Thought process.

Yeah, I moved from that sort of. I guess a lot of guys probably even more talented than myself. You go from juniors into seniors and I think there's along that journey, there's lots of little decisions that will ultimately add up to that final decision. And so I probably just made a lot of decisions that really lent me towards becoming that runner. And so, you know, you still went out and I lived at Melbourne Uni and had good fun, but there was a lot of nights where I didn't go out, you know, that kind of thing because I did have a long run the next day or I had state championships. I remember I'd been away on a junior trip and I came back and it was o week at uni, which is massive. And I had state championships that weekend and so I couldn't partake, so made up for it on Sunday night. But it was. That whole thing is that you sort of had to. To prioritize and then going to the Institute of Sport, that's the next step. So you're surrounded by people in all different sports and setting examples for you. Yeah, examples. And. And so then. And at that time I was training with Rob DiCostella, you know, and he was leading into Barcelona in 92. And. And he's a legend.

Yeah. So certainly.

Yeah. And. But. And you're getting exposed to these other runners. So Simon Doyle at the time, he was like, you know, ranked about third in the world at 1500. And so there was all these runners, Sean Crichton, Pat Carroll, Andrew Lloyd, they were my training buddies. And so that you were just feeding off. And then probably in 92 I didn't go overseas and I stayed here and I ran and won the city to surf in Sydney and out sprinted Andrew Lloyd to win. So from that it was sort of most I could compete and beat these guys.

Yeah. And Andrew Lloyd went on to win the Commonwealth Games 5,000 meters.

Well, he won it in 90.

90.

Yes. Yeah.

So he was already before.

Yeah. So commentary. They gave me no chance as we turned on the Esplanade to head to the finish. Kicked away, but.

And you're not known as a. An out and out sprinter and your cycling certainly we call Jules the diesel. So he doesn't have a big sprint. So as a runner, were you a bit of a diesel runner or.

Yeah, yeah, I don't have that real. Even as a runner, I didn't have that change of speed. Yep.

So how did you mentally get past? Because Andrew Lloyd had a sprint. Because that's how he beat The Kenyans in that 5,000 meter final, he came from nowhere with 200 meters to go.

Yep.

Is that right?

Yep. Came back. I don't know, like, I think I could sprint and I think it's a relative at the end of a race if it's really hard. And I just got a bit of momentum and adrenaline and away I went.

Is that feeling of I want it more than the other person. Did you think that that came into play a bit your mindset was going to win this a little bit?

And I think sometimes fortune favors the brave, which I say quite often is that instead of sort of waiting and reacting to somebody's mood, move is. Is I initiated it. And sometimes it's harder for somebody to react to your move than it is, you know, you're trying to chase somebody else. Yeah.

And that's pretty relevant in a lot of the athletes we coach now is how do they get around the criterium circuit? Do I just sit in or do I do something or do I want to be a spectator or do you want to be an active player? So, yeah, that's interesting that an event like that stands out for you, that, you know, people gave you no chance.

Yeah, no chance. And. And then I think from there, you know, I made com games in 94 and then. And then really from there it was like everything then is channeling towards the olympics.

Yep. So 96 was the, was the Atlanta Games. So at what stage was the selection races in between Commonwealth Games? In 94, where were they in Canada?

Victoria, British Columbia.

British Columbia. And so did you do well at the Commonwealth Games?

No, unfortunately I had a plantar fascia injury, so I ruptured the plantar fascia in my foot. So before, so that hindered my performance at the Comm Games, but that all got fixed up and then the lead up to the Olympics pretty much there's a qualifying period, so from about July the prior year, you can start to post qualifying times. And they set up a race, a 5000 metre race, which the old Olympic dream. So there used to be a fun run and then they used to have the 1500 meter races, but this year they set up a 5000 metres. And so myself, Sean Crichton and a few other guys were running and they had a couple of Kenyans run. And so 10am on a Sunday morning at Olympic park, they set us off and. And I just had a great race. I really trained really well for that year. I travelled overseas, come back and really put my head down and settled into Melbourne and trained and ran 13:24.

So everything was geared to this qualifying time. From a year out, you've sort of set your target. You need to get this qualifying time. For those who don't know most athletics events, you can be the national champion, but you might necessarily get selected unless you've reached the A qualifying time. There is a B qualifying time in most events, but you're guaranteed selection if you hit the qualifying time.

Yeah, they chop and change their selection policies a little bit, but you sort of just had to do as many A standards as possible. So ran the 13, 20, 24 and.

Then we're talking 5,000 meters here. And for those of you who don't understand what that is, that's 12 and a half laps of a 400 meter track and you're clocking 64 seconds per 400. And that's pretty exceptional. But that's quite different to actually a championship race. Explain the difference between.

Yeah, when you're chasing a qualifying time, you're trying to probably run a steady pace almost, you know, so you can come home and, and the, the pace doesn't probably vary too much, but you.

See, does that suit you better, that style of racing?

That suits me better. Probably going from a fast pace, fairway out and that's, that's good for me. Championship races, you can be running around and running laps at 72, 73 seconds and then all of a sudden it's a 58.

Yeah.

And you've still got six laps to go. And the Kenyans will just run varied speeds.

Yes.

Yeah. So we did try and do a lot of that training, fartlex type of training, but you know, so I qualified 1324 and then a couple of weeks later I ran a 10,000 meters and ran 2803 and qualified as well in the 10,000. So I had two qualifiers and. And then what, what's the stage of the year was this November and December.

And when was the Atlanta Games?

What about July the following year?

So you had six months from that point. So there's another point here that we'd like to sort of just touch on, which is peaking. So you had to peak in November and then repeat for the biggest event of your career.

Yeah, you pretty much had to be at a fairly high standard right through the summer because you had to sort of keep competing. And it got to the national championships and so I won the national champs.

And then how did you go with your times at the national champs?

And that's again, it comes down to your racing. So sometimes you're Racing and then sometimes it's a fast race. So I had the qualifying time so it wasn't in my interest to lead other people around. So. But yeah I'd run qualifying times. I had a bit of illness but then came back and then ran a PB 1500. So I ran 340 and, and so that was all good and then got picked in the team and so then as soon as you pick then you sort of. I went straight into sort of. I had a, an easy week, I remember. And then, then it was back into just base building, so just mileage and almost winter training even though the weather was summer. Was summer. And I remember one specific training session. I told you this the other day that we used to do this training around the tan and so run a big lap of the tan hard and then run up to Como park and we'd be running this. Anyone knows, Como park, it's an oval and it's sort of embanked around a hill and it has an old cross country course that you know, you had to run around this specific tree and up, down across the oval and it was about 15 minutes of all this running and there was, you sort of had to run up this hill a couple of times and there was a park bench and there was this guy sitting there and he's seeing me run and I'm charging across the oval and running up the hill and I've finished.

All on your own?

All on my own. And seriously like I was going really well. So it was a really good session and I finished and I'm heaving, breathing, you know, and this guy, he looks at me and he goes, you are the fittest footballer I've ever seen. And I didn't want to sort of, I didn't pop his bubble. I didn't sort of say, well I'm actually off to the Olympics for, in a couple of months but, but that was sort of the base training. We did a lot of mileage. So I was doing 100, 110 mile a week. So 160, 170 kilometers a week. And, and that was day after day. So that was no, my easy day. I didn't have a day off.

Yep.

So.

Yep.

So a lot of physio, massage, running and gym and strength work. So. As well.

Yeah. And look, that's pretty mind blowing for people to hear that, you know, but that's what it takes to get to the Olympics. You really have to have a program that's going to, you know, you're going to be running against the Kenyans, you're going to be running against the best in the world and you have to put the training in and obviously you understood what you needed to do and your mindset at that time must have been not even thinking about Jesus is hard, but what it's going to be like on the day, I better be prepared. Was that the way you were thinking?

Yeah, it's one that you just got to believe in the process. You've got to not worry about the things that you can't control. And the things I couldn't control. Control was, you know, how I was running, what I was doing, was I, you know, stretching enough, was I eating the right foods, those type of things. I wouldn't sort of say I was absolutely militant on it all. There's an element if, I think if you get too tense about everything and start over analyzing and things like that, then those type of things are almost a detriment to your performance where you've got to sort of go with the flow because you might be on race day and if something goes wrong, what's going to happen? Does it all crumble? Is it the house of cards? So you've got to have an element of, you know, geez, I've got a bit of a twinge in the calf. It doesn't mean my whole preparation's wrecked. It's more like, okay, I need to do easy. It's almost like sometimes you've just got to take your medicine and just get over the issue and you might miss a couple of days or do. What are some other things if you can do in terms of cross training that can get you through that period. So it was always an element of, yeah, sure you'd prefer to be running, but there was elements of the cross training or things that you used to do as well. But certainly believe in the process, be confident in the sessions that you're doing. Don't try and make any session a super session. So we're, you know, if we're trying to do something, we used to do eight four hundreds with a 200 meter float in between. Don't do them in 60, you know, like it's, it defeats the purpose of, you know, and you might walk off and go, wow, that's an amazing session, but tomorrow you can't do anything, tomorrow you can't do. And all of a sudden, you know, your process has come to a halt, it's changed. So, so that was, it's, it's almost.

Like a chess game, isn't it? You've got to get all the pieces in the right order, the right position and if you make a mistake in any of your aspects or the training sessions that you've got planned and you deviate too much, it's at your detriment, isn't it?

Yeah. And I think the other thing is for me was listening to my coaches. So if they're telling me something you don't know the best, so trust that they're telling you something from an age of experience, an age of wisdom. So they were pretty good in terms of guiding me in terms of what I should be doing. Sometimes, you know, when you were younger you'd run, I do runs that were too intense, you know, too, too fast. So I was being pulled up on those type of things in terms of just going, no, you don't need to be. Just because you run a really fast 10 miler and it was easy. Yeah. Doesn't mean it's actually good.

Yeah.

So the intensity sort of had to be at certain levels and then that would sort of allow you to sort of then do a track session the next day. The greater intensity rather than carrying the tiredness from the day before.

Yeah. But look, you and I have spoken many times as we do when we ride side by side on the bike quite a bit and we're talking about the old days and what you used to do and you often told me that, you know, keep your high intensity for when you put your number on. And, and that was, you know, you don't want to be a great trainer, you want to be good at training, but you want to be a great racer. And you have got some classic stories about that, haven't you, really?

Yeah, I think it was always a case. And even in, you know, cycle racing or road racing is, it's, it's easy. People can sort of race in training and there's no number on, so it doesn't matter. It's easy to be the winner when everyone else isn't really trying. But when everyone pins a number on and they want to be first across the line, that's when it counts. And I always enjoy in a race, I'll always leave it out there, like I'll put it on the line or push the limit. And that was the same in running, is that I like to sort of push other guys until they break. I'm not the one that's gonna, because I don't have that kick at the end, but certainly I grind them into the ground, them into the ground ground and try and try and be smart about it.

And you've identified your strengths. And it's another thing that we want to get across to the. To the listeners in that you. You understood what your strengths and weaknesses were and you would implement that into your tactics.

Yep. I think to a degree. Certainly there's some limitations in terms of it's a really choppy type of race or it's going to come down to a sprint and then, you know, you. You'll compete, but you sort of know that maybe you're not there, but. But then I have won races in sprints as well, so about just being smart and learning from the other guys you ride with in terms of, you know, how you position yourself. But at nationals and things like that, when I ran, there was times where, yeah, I'd win in a, you know, in a kick, but it wouldn't be in the last 50 meters. Yeah, it'd be sort of 1500 meters to. To go, or 200 meters to go sort of thing. And with a big last lap.

Yeah. And look, we've sort of talked a little bit about the preparation and what it took to get to the Olympics. So now you've been selected to the Olympics, you've done your prep time, you've been given your jacket and your tracksuit, and you're now an Australian Olympian. Obviously, that would have been a sensational period in your life. And we'll just spend a minute just getting some idea of how that felt.

It was all a bit surreal, I think, because all your friends that you're with, they're all doing the same thing. So there was amazing things happening every day. So just, you know, going from the sort of movies. Like, once we arrived in the. The Village at the time, just seeing these amazing people from all over the world, like amazing female athletes, amazing male athletes, famous people. It wasn't uncommon to be walking through the village and, you know, Bill Clinton would be over there, or. I remember one morning I was eating breakfast and looked, and pretty much a couple of meters away was a guy called Tony Kukok, who played for the Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan at the time. So he was a superstar. So then, you know, just all these things were sort of going on, and it was just amazing that everyone was experiencing these same things at the same time. And you were sort of excited. But also we had a job to do. So, you know, we had the opening ceremony. We. That was. And that was a bit of a logistical task, you know, so we had to sit in this stadium next door to where the main stadium was.

Yep.

And it was Stinking hot. But we were there for about four hours before the opening ceremony and we're sitting there in jackets and things and then.

Were you worried about that affecting your preparation? Because your, you told me your event was at the end of the program.

Yeah, we certainly had, we had had time and it was. I mean, we're sitting in the stadium, they had lots of food and drink for the athletes. Then we all got walked into the stadium and Australia was one of the first countries, so that was all exciting. We've got this amazing picture of, you know, the whole Australian team in front of me and I look at that moment as. That's the moment I became an Olympian when I walked into the stadium and then. But then we're on the infield for hours and athletes don't like standing as well, so. Well, there was the sitting down, but then it was exciting when the American team came in and there was the Dream Team Shack being the home Olympics for the Atlanta or Michael Jordan, all these superstar athletes and then Muhammad Ali lighting the flame and you were all there and then. But then we had about, I think I had about another eight days until I competed. So as much as you're getting caught up in it, you still had a job to do.

Yeah, it must have been really hard. You almost, I mean, growing up watching the Olympics and now you're in the Australian team and you're walking into the, to the opening ceremony. Be hard to sort of say, oh, I want to soak this up and enjoy it, but I still, I've got a job to do. And how did you, how did you cope with, with that? How did not try and let your emotions get carried away there or you.

Sort of took little bits in. I think now I reflect back and, and it's good memories. I think I said to you earlier, it's a bit like a movie I've watched. Like it's so far removed of what my life is now, but I look back and it's like a movie. But the, you've got those highlights. I think the, the other moment that really I was very fortunate of as much as it was an inconvenience because everything takes longer. Like even if you're going for a training run, you know the time you've got to organize because we couldn't go for a training run around the village. It was too busy, it was too hot and it was very suburban around the university where we were. So, you know, the morning run would take like to do a 30 or 40 minute run would take all morning because, because the time to get to the shuttle car, that had to be organized. Everyone's in the car, we go to a destination, we run. Somebody's running five miles, somebody's running seven miles, stretching all the time. Then you come back, you gotta go back through security, which took time. And then you got back to your unit or your room and then you have to shower. And normally like a 30 or 40 minutes run would take three to four hours.

Yeah.

And that was your morning. And then, and then the other thing that was we had to be careful of was when we had to do some track running. The track wasn't just. There was a track in the university just to be used for athletes, but it wasn't just the running athletes there, there was other sports. There was tennis players running up and down. There was, you know, old people that don't have any track sense, no etiquette for track. And so we're trying to sort of run around the track and do training. And you just wanted to be careful because you didn't want to run into somebody and twist an ankle, you know, days out from competing in the Olympics.

Yeah, especially if Jordan, Michael Jordan was warming up, you wouldn't want to run to him and get him injured as well. So the other thing that we wanted to really establish for our coaching athletes is what did you mentally feel about the pressure that was internal and external about your, obviously your heat, your 5,000 meter heat. How did you cope? How did you deal and how did you strategize your thought process around? You know, I've trained pretty much my whole life to this for this day. Obviously you want to get into the semis and then the final. How did you deal? What, what things talk us through that. How did, how did you cope with that?

I think the, the best way was you worked out pretty early on. What was the best mindset for when you competed really well. And I realized that I was. When I was relaxed. So when I was relaxed. Yes. And. But also in a mind that I could, and I still do it today if I've got a big race, even for cycling, is that it's almost like you're telling yourself you're going to hurt and you've got to be prepared to hurt. And I think sometimes when, and that comes with confidence when you're really hurting in a race and then a move's going or something's going, it's not like, oh, I'm going to just sit back and wait. It's like, no, I'm going. It's not even a conscious decision. And so I realised that I had to be relaxed. And the whole warm up process was we had to warm up at a track that was separate to the main stadium. And it was really hot and there was a lot of excitement because Michael Johnson was breaking world records and you were an athletics fan, but you sort of still had to warm up. And you see all these other athletes you're about to compete with, they're all warming up and they're doing this and it's just worrying about what you're doing. But then we had to warm up and then it's so hot and sweaty. But then you had to put your tracksuits and everything on because we were getting on buses that were so cold, air conditioning to go back to the main stadium. And then you go through this whole check in procedure. So they're checking your numbers, they're checking your uniform, they're checking the brand of spikes you've got on because, you know you've said you're wearing Adidas. Yes, you're wearing Adidas. So there's not this whole chop and changing and there's a bit of warming up going on there. And then you've. And this whole process, your normal warm up would take 45 minutes. At the Olympics it took an hour and a half. So your routine, which you had practiced for, so that goes back and being aware of it and knowing. And so we'd done a few run throughs of just having elongated warm up, but then you eventually got out on the track and you'd done some run throughs and you're ready to go and then there's a medal ceremony and so everything stops and you warm up. And so I had two moments and it happened before my heat. And then I was lucky enough I made the semi final but I got to sit down on the back straight and I could have been on any track anywhere, but I was on the back straight of at the Olympics and I'm looking up and there's the flame. And that was for me was surreal. That was something that. And I was very fortunate that I just took that moment to take that.

In, that it wasn't tingling.

You know, you sort of, you know, you sort of think, oh, that's something from a movie or something. But it actually happened.

What a great moment. Yeah.

So, and so then that relaxed and I sort of made it through the heat into the semi final and then unfortunately didn't sort of make the final, but finished 26th overall.

Yep, brilliant. So you get to the line and you put your foot on the line and you know, the guy runs along saying, take your foot off the line. But at that moment, for your heat especially, was there any negative thoughts going through your mind or were you totally at ease?

I remember we had a pre camp, you know, just, and one of the psychologists there just said, just be sure to enjoy the moment. You know, that you've done all the work and you think it's almost like, you know, you've done all this work and there's just this confidence and, you know, I knew you wasn't going to win the gold medal, but you just want to try and do the best you possibly can.

Yeah.

And, and you're competing in a highly competitive event, so as much as, you know, you go to the Olympics, there's events that, you know, they're all competitive, but there's some that are bloody tough to win. And the middle distance, distance, the Kenyans and Ethiopians and, you know, all African nations that. It's very difficult and, but you know, that's, you do that and you run it and give it a crack.

Yeah, no, that's, that's fantastic. Like I often say to the guys, you know, when you stand on that line, whether you're in a triathlon or whether you're in a bike race, you jump on your bike, you know, you should, should be happy with your preparation. And that was that something that you, that you, you would have obviously, you know, not thought too much about that.

But not, not on the line. But I think it's that whole process and that all the years of training, all the commitment that you've made to get to that point to be able to, you know, about to run. You want too many thoughts going through your head because sometimes the best races were when you can't even remember a thought at all. You know, you're almost in the zone, but you just wanted to have a good start and then get in a position that you, you weren't caught in, boxed in or anything. And you could re. And you could react. Yeah, sometimes it wasn't bad. If you ran wide, if the pace was slow, that was all right. But, but if you're trying to run really fast and you're out wide, you're in trouble. Yeah, but it was just getting yourself into a good position to get through to the next stage.

So looking back on the whole experience, it's something that you've, you've got that you can almost hang your hat on. How can you use that experience? And look, we're talking to everyday athletes here who are, you know, some are just recreational riders, some are. Some are elite. What experiences from that have you. You put into your everyday life and your actual sporting activities? Now, because you're part of the giant Celtic race team, which is a group of masters riders who we compete at national level, state level, club level, you must have a little bit of an advantage over most people. Having put yourself at the highest level sporting event in the world and to come down to a club race at Sandown, maybe do you sort of. You must be more race relaxed than you. I mean, you are a very relaxed person.

Yes.

Yeah. And seeing you at a race, it always calms me because I look at Julian and just go, well, he's raced at the highest, highest level. Why am I getting a little bit nervous here? Have you been able to put that into practice?

I think, again, it's just that whole process, whether it be a club race at Sandown or compete at Nationals or when we compete at the Worlds in Perth, is just be confident in the. In what you've done now. Yes. Sometimes it doesn't always go to plan, but I always sort of give thanks that we're able to do it. You know, there's a lot of people that, you know, circumstances in life and everything, it's perspective, you know, I think, you know, there's been a couple of, you know, things happen to friends or their. Their siblings that have given me a real perspective on life, is that it's not the end of the world if it's a bad race. Like, if that's the worst thing that's going to happen to me, and that's a bit like, you know, with my whole running career, is that I had a lot of injuries after 96, and I was so close. You know, the, the year before Sydney, I was on track, I was going to make the team and I had ambitions of running in Sydney and then going on to Athens and injuries and it just. That blew it up. So. And my running career was pretty much over. And I was never disappointed or bitter about that. It was always like, well, shit, I got to go to the Olympics. How many people? I mean, there's only about 4,000 people in the history of Australia that have gone to the Olympics. So it's. You sort of go, when you look at it from that way, you go, geez, how lucky am I? And that's. Even now, you know, going to a race, a bike race or things like that, I go, how good's this? I get to go do a race and Especially when I'm with the team and I've got other buddies in the race, and I go, how good's this? So I love that camaraderie as a team and then just be calm. And I think I have a good knack for trying to pick the move as well, because I've got to try and be in it. But if I'm not in the move and a teammate's in. In it, then that's a good result as well.

Yeah, no, it's really fantastic insight, Jules. And look, there was lots of things we wanted to talk about which you and I have discussed over the journey, and we've known each other a long time, and there's so many stories that we could talk about, but we could go on and on. We have to cut it a little bit short. The main thing that really we wanted to get across to people was that, look, no matter what level you're competing at, the system and the process is still the same. The key thing that you would say, the one word that you would give to what has enabled you to be the athlete that you are is I'd.

Say, well, I have one little saying that I always go on about is no dimmer switch on commitment. And I think from an early age, you know, that was the thing that sort of got me through. There's a lot of other people, people that had probably more talent than myself, but I had this real drive and determination to sort of really go on with it. And I still think to this day, it's in the training that I do and things like that. It's. At the age you are, it's still no dimmer switch rock commitment.

And that consistency just keeps coming home. The same message, isn't it?

Yep. And, you know, if you want to compete at a certain level or whatever it is, or you want to chase a PB there, there's lots of little things that'll help you get to that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Just one question from behind the camera. There was talk of some interesting Olympic stories in the Olympic village.

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, I guess, for us, because we competed in the second week, you hear all these stories about what goes on in the village, and. But for me, I wasn't sort of involved in that, but certainly some of the other athletes certainly had a great time, and the swimmers finished in the first week, and they certainly had a great time. But I think the biggest thing is when you're traveling in teams and you're overseas and, like, we're on this training Camp now, and I was saying to Gerry, this was my life until I was 28 is you just got to travel. You trained in the morning, you trained in the afternoon. I was coming up here to Noosa in 94, where we'd just be running and then just lying around watching TV and training and doing all those type of things. And when you travel with friends and some really close friends overseas and you're in far off foreign places, you get yourself into some funny situations. But no, it was good fun and good memories and lifelong friendships were made.

So, okay, we probably had the best interview that I've had for a while because it's the only one we've had. Jules.

There we go.

But no, I really appreciate giving your time. My pleasure. It's something I've always wanted to share. And, and look, most of the, the athletes that we coach in Trivalo coaching would really have been loving everything and hanging on every word you're saying because it's an insight. And, you know, we all see what happens on Tally at that level of competing, and it's really good to hear someone who's experienced it. And you are very calm about the way you go about things and you're very focused, you're very committed. The programs that we do together, you know, you're one of my A grade athletes that I'm really pleased to be associated with you. And I've learned quite a lot from your example because you've been competing at that highest level. It's been great for me as a coach to actually see how it should be done from an athletic point of view. So it's really great insight. So, yeah, thanks again, mate. And yeah, I think that's a bit of a wrap. Jord, is there anything else we need to talk about?

No, that's it. That is everything for this episode. We hope you really enjoyed it. I know I certainly got a lot out of it. Thank you, Julian, for being on the podcast. And that's it for today. So apart from that, we'll see you the next episode. And as always, please leave some positive reviews if you liked it. If you have any questions, we've actually had some people asking us how do we ask questions? If you're in the anchor app, you can send us a message to ask a question or you can actually record a question as a voice recording. Otherwise, feel free to email me@jordanrivellocoaching.com that's jordanrivelocoaching.com with your question. We've actually had a lot of people asking, how do we ask questions? And if you want to keep it anonymous, that's fine. Just let us know. Otherwise, we'll read out your name and your question on the next podcast. Until then, we'll see you later.