7 Do’s and Don’ts For Your Training in 2025

This podcast is brought to you by Trivalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Gerard Donnelly. Our first podcast episode of the year and we are so excited to be back for 2025 today. We are going through the biggest do's and don'ts for your training this year. And trust me, these aren't going to be little things like do more VO2 or take this supplement or hydration drink or do more base training or be more consistent because we say that a lot and obviously we all want to be more consistent. But these are some training nuggets that you might have been missing out on or common mistakes that you might be doing that you need to change this year. So, dad, welcome to our first episode for the year. Let's start with our normal segment. What are you grateful for?

Yes, I'm super grateful that we've made it to 2025 and a lot of people out there would be in agreeance that some people be saying, oh, I'm glad 2024 is done and dusted and others are going what a great year it was. And you know, whatever, whatever camp you're in, you know, new year, it's always a good opportunity to rethink your strategies and rethink your goals. And I'm super grateful for this period of the year. And I said this in the last podcast before Christmas, I love this holiday period. And it's been all my expectations have been come tr, you know, you've come home from where you were in Bali and we had our family period up in sunny Queensland in here in Australia in Cooling. For those who know Noosa, it's just short of 30, 40K short of Noosa. And we got an opportunity to train together, you, your brother Liam and myself and a few other Trivalo athletes. And you know, we did some great group rides. We did some great individual rides. I loved that period. I'm so grateful that I'm healthy enough after what happened to me in 2024 that I'm able to keep up with you for a start. But I'm more than grateful to be able to ride and share special occasions with two of our my four children. And you know, towards the end of the year I was able to swim with your other brother Matt, who's whose passion is swimming and we have a great time once a week swimming together. And I love that I Love that special bond that we get when we swim, even though we don't get to communicate much because got a head in the water a lot of the time, but. But yeah, I really love that. I'm so grateful that I'm healthy enough to be able to share these occasions and that, you know, I don't know how many more years that's going to happen. You know, it's getting. There's going to be a point where you guys are just, you know, far superior and it's a waste of time, you training with me. So at the moment I'm able to keep up even if I am sitting on the wheel or Matt and I. I'm sitting on his feet swimming. So these are great experiences for me and I'm really grateful to have those opportunities and to have everybody have your sister Georgia come up for the holiday as well. It was really good to have everybody together in another state. We normally. It's the first time we've ever left home and celebrated Christmas somewhere else. So my gratitude is a big one. But it's all to be, you know, to be thinking about, you know, there's going to be times when I can't do this, so I've got to really relish the occasion, the now being in the now. And I'm. I'm happy that, that I'm healthy enough now to, to experience all these things.

And it was your birthday yesterday, so a big happy birthday to you and I'm sure the listeners would wish you a happy birthday and I think you'd not be able to train with us a few years off because given the health complications you had last year, the fact that you're still riding this well, you're still coming back from that shows that you've got plenty more to go. So for me, many things to be grateful for. I was thinking about my gratitude for this episode and a lot of things came to mind. But then today we ended up going on just a real one of those unbelievable summer rides in Melbourne. We just went out, your birthday ride, we'll call it, and we went out in the hills for two and a half hours and it was just unbelievable. The sun was shining, it was clear blue sky, it was not one cloud. And we were just tapping away, just soaking in the 28 degrees Celsius for those that use Fahrenheit. And it was just one of those ones where you're just looking around, just feeling so grateful and so happy to have the sun in your back. And yeah, it's one of those rides that you can't wipe the smile off your face. So before we get into the episode, just a quick shout out and welcome to the newest members of the Trivello coaching family who have joined us over this last period. Over the Christmas New Year period, a great time to start. These athletes have jumped on board with the hopes of improving their results and getting to their race in the best shape possible. So a quick shout out to Steven Giuliano from Malaysia, Brooke Gordon from Victoria, Stephen Liu also from vic, Daniel Walker, another Aussie, Rosie Herman from Queensland, Dave Bullen from wa, Jack Middleton from Melbourne, Fletcher Kelleher from New Zealand. I hope I said that right, Fletcher. Gabrielle Cooper from Queensland, Michael Exon from London, the uk, David Mack from Queensland, Ben White from WA and Mike Greenberg in Canada. We can't wait to help you improve on your journey. And if you'd like to join these athletes athletes and guarantee your own improvement, you can go to our website, trivelocoaching.com a reminder, as you just heard, we do coach athletes from anywhere in the world. So dad, on that note, let's get into it, the do's and don'ts for training this year. Now the first do we wanted to speak about and we ended up talking about this a lot at the end of last year and it's listen to your body more. And we want to talk about that in a training sense and a racing sense because we are one of the most data driven coaching companies out there. But that's because a lot of athletes come to us with no experience in using data and using power. And so we really drill at home in how to focus on it, how to use it, rather than just going off feel and rpe. But given all that, we are the biggest proponents of listening to your body first and we adjust our own programs, you and I, our own training all the time based on how we're feeling. So what are your thoughts on athletes learning to listen to their body more both in training and racing?

Yeah, if there's One thing in 2025 I would really want to push. And we, as you said in the introduction, we are really trying to get our athletes to understand their data and that takes a lot. It's not something that comes naturally. Growing up, you always, if you wanted to go somewhere for a run or ride your bike fast down to the shops, you would normally just go flat out and then progressively get slower and you just know that that's what's going to happen. But we're trying to use that data to enable you to have more of a fun experience in actual events. So we've drilled that in and we've really pushed that and we've made no excuses or we're not apologizing for that. That's how we can get you to execute better, by really looking and understanding the data that you've trained to and tested to and using your training sessions and using it on race day. So I just want to put that out there. But I think the thing that people are forgetting is that you really need to understand how your body's coping with that data. And that's one of the big do's I want you to really think about when you are doing your 2025 program is I've got to make notes about how I felt during those sessions. And you know, when I interview people who join our Trivalo coaching program, I'm asking them to make sure that they use their training peaks post activities comment section to make a note about how they felt during that session. Did I do those VO2 sets comfortably? Did I struggle or was it an absolute joke? I couldn't even get near the numbers. And we can see the numbers, but we can't tell how you felt. And how you felt has got a lot to do with the outcome of your year. Your main race, your training session, your build up your program. So you need to have that as a data reference and the more times you write that down because the data will always stay there. But your feelings, you can't remember well, how did I feel that day when I rode that PB 20 minute FTP? How do I feel that day when I failed that 10k run, when I ran too fast early, what was the reason why I failed that? If you've got a note about how you felt on all of those things, I think that would be a big do for the season is to be more in touch with your feelings about any particular training session or race. And keeping a diary about how you're feeling each day I think is really good. And I definitely tell a lot of my athletes when they wake up, if they're using any of the new technologies such as whoop or aura rings or HRV or resting heart rate or I ask them to say when they wake up. Before you check any of your tech stuff, ask yourself on a rating of 1 to 10, how do you feel when you wake up after 5 or 10 minutes of walking around? Don't check your data, don't check your tech, ask yourself how you feel and then go and see what your resting heart rate was when you woke up, go and see what your HRV is and then go and see what your aura ring or your fob or whatever you're using is telling you that you shouldn't train today, you're too tired. Or it's telling you you're ready to. Or your Garmin. I've had the Garmin telling me on race day that I should rest that day and it's interpreting our data wrong. So you being in touch with your feelings will be way outweighing what some tech thing will be able to tell you. And I think resting heart rate is one of the best things that we could use to tell us what's happening in our body without any of that tech stuff. I mean, the tech stuff can give you the resting heart rate, but you can do that yourself without any technology. Just take your resting heart rate over a minute. But I think the main thing we're trying to do is in this point number one is get yourself more in tune with what's happening on your day to day feelings and then you will be a better athlete because you're including feelings and data as equally important as each other.

Yeah. And the morning note is so funny because how I feel on the first minute of waking up compared to how I feel at minute 10 compared to how I feel at the half hour mark and then the hour mark is just wildly different. So you'd almost want to give yourself that first 60 or 90 minutes to fully wake up, do your morning routine, even get outside and get into the day and then check how you're feeling and then check the data because tell you what, I don't feel too good a lot of the time. The first hour of the day, and especially if you're training in the morning, Sometimes the first 25 minutes on the bike is absolute hell before you actually start feeling good again. One last example I want to touch on was the New Zealand World Champs. 70.3 World Champs in December were a really great example of for us, the data really throwing everyone off. So two really big lessons that were common among our own athletes. What we saw with other age group athletes and what we saw in the pros was that it was a really slow day, it was much slower than everyone anticipated. And so that was throwing everyone off in that they weren't able to perform potentially to what they were expecting compared to other fast courses. And that threw everyone off a little bit mentally. And secondly, just because of the nature of the heat and the conditions, a lot of people, we found that their power meters really weren't working that well. And that throws everyone off, including. We spoke about this with Tom Page, who was age group world champion, how his power was quite often he almost over rode the bike because of it. And so those instances, it becomes so important about why you need to learn to be in tune with your body. And you made a great point last month where you said that you're always reminding athletes, if it feels hard, then it probably is and you want to, you want to back your own judgment there. And if it feels too hard, if the data's telling you one thing, it's just like the, you know, when you wake up in the morning, you might, you know, feel okay, but the dharma, the data tells you something different in the race. You know, you might not feel too good, but the data's telling you you should be fine. It's almost like you have to trust your body a little bit more there and knock off just the data.

And also Jord, if it feels too hard and you're supposed to be hitting numbers that are higher than you're capable of, well, it's probably not the best day for you to try and do that. And that's a, that's a bad thing to do, is to try and push yourself way above what feels comfortable. And you will get a poor outcome by chasing the numbers. And not only are we saying use the data to help you, but if you're looking at the data and it's not the numbers you want to see and you're trying the best you can, and that's about where your level is on that day, you need to readjust your expectation and not blindly say, well, this is our plan. I'm going to ride at this power and if I can't do it for 90k, at least I'll try it for 20k, that's a really bad idea. You should be changing your mind straight away. And if you feel like it's too hard early, trust yourself because it is. Your feedback you're getting to your brain is really the most accurate thing you can rely on. The example you used before, when you wake up and you're not feeling so good and you've got a high intensity session on the bike waiting, you've only got 15 minutes basically from waking up, go to the toilet, get prepared, and then jump on the bike. And that's the situation for most people who've got a job is to get that done at 5:30 in the morning, or for some of them who are lucky enough at 6:30 in the morning. But you don't have a lot of time to determine whether you're coping a lot. I've got on the bike many times early going, how am I going to do this hard session? And I'm just letting my body adapt to the warm up and then the warm up feels like progressively it's getting a little bit better than I do. The, the in between section where you leave the warm up and you start to do a little, few little efforts to wake your body up and then you're thinking, there's no way I can do these ramp sessions and then I can't do these 30 second efforts that's on the program. And then I get to the main set and before you know it you're actually right to go. And they're really good examples of you just continuing to work your way through things. And as you go you start to feel like, oh geez, my legs aren't that bad and have a go at the session. But you know, if I just trusted that, I feel crap, I'm not going to do the hard session and don't even try. You know, there's a difference between those two. And I think, I think if you can identify that, you'll be better off and you'll actually get more consistent if you keep saying to yourself, you know, coaches told me to listen to my feelings and so my feelings were I don't feel good. But the majority of us don't feel good when we wake up anyway. So that's not what we're saying. We're saying is give yourself a chance and listen to your body. But if it halfway through that warm up and the ramp and the 30 second efforts, you know, and you get to the main set, you're still not feeling good. That's when we mean, yes, this is the time to back off.

Yeah. And I heard a really great sports psychologist talk on a podcast about this and just say she was talking about how she sees with so many endurance athletes, the standards are so high, the self standards are so high. And she's going, often athletes have this self talk in these periods where they go, what's wrong with me? I'm not working hard enough, I'm lazy, I'm not tough enough. There's other people tougher than me. There's pros will be training right now and they try and really grit their way through it and push their way through it. And she just said, take a step back. And if you're a triathlete or endurance athlete, chances are your self motivation is extremely high. You're probably in the top percentile of the population for motivation and self discipline. It's probably not a motivation issue. There's probably something else happening here. You might be overtrained or you haven't had enough sleep from work or something else is going on. Because if you get into that point and you can't push the power, often the first thing we try and do is blame ourselves. And it was just a brilliant point she made where she said the chances of you not being motivated enough or being quote, unquote, tough enough for the session is very unlikely. And give yourself a little bit more leeway in those instances and listen to what your body's trying to tell you.

For sure, I couldn't agree more. But you've got to work your way through that. And that's part of the process of learning about how you feel. And if you don't actually practice that, you know, it's no different to, you know, I've got to ride these numbers. If I haven't practiced those numbers, those power numbers or that running pace in training, it's a foreign thing on race day. So if you haven't asked yourself those questions about, you know, I normally feel a little bit average and I know that in the past I've just given myself a chance, I'll be okay. But then the day where you, you say, yeah, I'm not feeling good and it's not getting any better, it's, as you said, it's not the motivation. You are not that person. So many people say to me, I'm so sorry. I' saying, don't ever apologize. It is okay to not complete a session to the level that the expectation of the session or the goals or the outcomes of the session were planned. But you can always drop that expectation and do the session. You can say you're doing a VO2 set and you want to make it a zone 2, you can drop that whole thing and get a good outcome rather than just stopping. And the only reason you would stop is if there's something wrong and if it's going to be detrimental to the next three or four days or weeks, that's the time to stop. But I think the motivation thing is a really good point. You will know the difference between laziness and there's actually something not quite right.

Yeah, brilliant. First point, a really big one, but a big one for this series is learn to use the data, but learn to listen to your body more. So the first don't for this year is just things to stop doing is and this one comes from our main man, Lionel Sanders. And we did. We spoke about him a little bit before Christmas where he released a video about his Kona review. And we just wholeheartedly disagreed with his own assessment of the race. And he's since released a lot more videos, which really plays into this point that we want to talk about. And it's.

It's.

Don't look for the quick fix. And again, we say this every time we bring up Lionel, but. And a lot of people who watch his videos comment the same thing. We're his biggest fans. You know, we all want him to see him. And a lot of his fans are commenting, saying, lana, we want to see you succeed, but what are you talking about here? And so what is this lesson in stop looking for a quick fix? And it seems simple on the surface where people say, I'm not looking for a quick fix, but a lot of people actually are, and they don't realize it.

I think everything that comes to you in a good way in life has taken some sort of journey, and that's what the quick fix doesn't allow for. And I feel sorry for Lionel in some ways because he has got a really great training ethos. He wants to be a better athlete. And I think all his supporters want him to be, you know, the athlete that he aspires to. But my coaching hat says that he's just jumping from one thing to another. One minute it's, it's lactate testing, and now it's high intensity, and now it's more volume. Now it's more recovery. Now it's a better mindset. Now it's, I need to be more motivated. You know, I need to get up earlier and train. Now I need to train less. Now I need to train more. It's just all of these changes all the time where he's not giving something the time it needs. Everything takes time for it to be the value that it needs. And if you can just think about that, you have to be super disciplined. Just like on race day. You can't. If you want. If you want to get a really good run in or if you want to get a really good ride in you, you can't just start riding above your level and then hopefully get ahead of the schedule. You just need to be disciplined to stay with the actual plan. And it's no different to training. There's no quick fix session that's going to give you that 5% extra. The 5% extra comes from 12 months of doing the program properly, working backwards from your race and then finding, getting yourself really aerobically fit early and getting stronger and riding hills and running through hills and dialing in your nutrition and, and keeping yourself good sleep hours and keeping well hydrated and following the process and not saying three or four weeks in, I would have expected to improve more than that. So I don't think this is for me. I think I need to try something else and I'm being extreme here but I want you to be the opposite. I want you to be more even, level headed and give things a chance. And I always say to people if you do a version of something, you're never going to know whether it worked or not. Even if you do the thing properly and it doesn't work. At least you know you've given it your all and it didn't work. But if you half do it, you're never going to know that if you do some of it according to the program. So that's that theory of staying on course and trying to follow the process. And I know that he's given some methods of training a chance but. But I don't feel that he's given it a long time. I think it's always been that sucked because of one event, one result, you know, and so he's using one outcome and then he's going to change his whole strategies for that until he goes to the next race. And I think that is, that's a recipe for disaster, I feel.

Yeah. And a caveat there is that if something's clearly wrong for you and it's clearly a system that doesn't agree with you straight away, then you might want to change quickly. You know, you've got to be smart there. It's not that nothing we're saying here is always a black and white rule, but you're saying if something seems to be working, you want to give it a chance. And for Lionel, he could be in the form of his life. He could show the best testing numbers possible but then have a poor outcome in a race and then he would change strategies, you know, and it might have been something on race day, it might have been the execution, it might have been the taper was slightly rotten. Like there could be so many reasons but the training that's got him there is working, but he would still change it. So that's what you're talking about is that you can't just change tactic off one potential event. You've got to look at all factors and then make an educated decision.

We have so many people in our program who may have had a poor testing session. And they would resonate with this because they're the first to say, what's wrong with me? I should have gone better than that. And it could have been many reasons. You didn't get enough sleep last night or you started too hard, or that your actual fatigue levels or you're coming down with a cold. There could be so many reasons as to why you didn't perform, or it. It could be just that you had a bad session. But, you know, the form you had last week indicates that you're really in good form. But just because you test poorly, you know, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. That is. That is the old saying where you've got to stay the line, stay the journey. And as you said earlier, there will be, you know, there will be reasons why you should not do that, but that would be rare. If you've done your research, you're in a group and a training program that has had success, then you've got to give it a chance. And, you know, if you've been doing the same thing year in, year out and not getting any different results, then that's the definition of insanity, is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. And what we're saying is, you know, don't do that. But we're saying, do, do the things that are going to get you an opportunity over a long period of time. And we've often said many times on the podcast that athletes who have been in their second and third years to go to another level. And, and you can't do that if you've jumped. If you've jumped. I look at this as an example. Tottenham Hotspur, they've had like six coaches in six seasons. And the minute their team starts to get some success, like an postecoglou has come in now he's, you know, brought this really new and. And attacking style of soccer into football, into, into, into the top Knottsburg team. And now he's being tested because he's losing some big games. And I worry that the hierarchy is going to sack him, just like they've sacked the previous six coaches. And that's what I'm talking about, not giving someone a chance to stamp their authority in the program. And if you do that, you're going to be jumping from program to program. And it doesn't matter what you do. You've got to give things an opportunity to see it through. And then you can make decisions based on, you know, I'm talking, you know, four or five years down the track. You know, what you do now, keep it on, you know, jumping from. I need to do more volume, I need to do more intensity, I need to do more swimming. I have to cut out the long rides. I have to, you know, if you don't follow a process that's proven, then you are going to be haphazard training at best.

Brilliant. Moving back to our next do for the year. And this is one that you really, really implore and you ask people when the very first conversation they have when they join Travello. This is a key question you ask. And to illustrate the point, I want to talk about a story that really highlighted this for me this year or in 2024 as well. And that's the story of the Detroit Lions. So I've mentioned on the podcast before, I'm weirdly a, a massive NFL fan, which is strange for an Australian because NFL is only played in United States, but I absolutely love it. And the Detroit Lions are a club that, that have had such a history of losing. They are just one of those clubs that always lose. And, and the saying is, you know, the same old Lions where they just, they might get a glimmer of hope, but then they just lose. And they employed a head coach four years ago who actually was an athlete, a player for the Detroit Lions himself. And there's a great stat where in 2008 he played for them and he was 0:16. They didn't win one single game. But he came in as his coach and he brought in this incredible energy and there's just some great footage. They, they really have showed some amazing behind the scenes footage and, and insight into his coaching lessons and how he's speaking to the players in, in meetings and out on the training pitch. And this is one great clip which seriously gave me goosebumps where he, this is back in 2020, 2021, when they're just a losing club and he's coming in, he's trying to change the culture and he is saying to them, I'm begging you to trust me. Me. I'm begging you to trust the plan and that this is the plan that will get us to win. He said, because I care about you guys, all I do is think about you guys. And all I do is think about a way to win. And if I thought there was a better way to win, I would do it, but this is the best way. And he's talking specifically about this certain training style I had to do and it was really hard. He Said, I know it's really hard, but this is the way that we're going to win. And I just love that. He was almost in tears on the pitch, you know, screaming at them, saying, I love you guys. And this is. This is the way that we're going to do it. And four years later, they're on top of the NFL. And it took four years, exactly what you're saying. But this year they're on top of the NFL. They went on an 11 win streak where they were unbeaten for 11 games this year. And I'm so excited because the finals are starting this week. But his passion, and it took four years, but you see all the videos in the locker room and after games, and they all just love him and they have so much trust for him. And it's a really big thing between the coach and athlete relationship, where you always say to the athletes, look, ask as many questions as you want. We always encourage you to ask while we're doing something, but trust the process and trust that what we're giving you. And I just think that's a really key point if you've got a coach, athlete relationship. And we're probably talking more for our own coaches and athletes. We can't promise what other coaches are doing, but we always say to athletes, trust the process. Trust that what we're giving you is the best thing we think for you, and you will reap the rewards down the line if you trust the process.

Yeah, I can't. I don't think the care factor can be understated. You know, that's one of the things that you and I and the whole Trivalo coaching group, we really push that is, you know, we've trialled over, you know, since I started in 1981, I've trialled so many training sessions, I've read so many medical journals, exercise physiology tests, strategies. I think I've been through every single page that's possible to make myself a better athlete. And I've made 10,000 mistakes along that journey. And so we've got to a point where we're still learning, we still don't know. And let's face it, none of the exercise physiologists would sit here and say they know the, you know, everything about everything. So everybody's still learning. So if you got that belief. But at the moment, you need to know that what we're giving you is what we think is best for you. And you will get the best out of yourself if you follow this process. And we're not doing it because you know, it's an easy fix. We're doing it because this is the way you'll get a better outcome on race day. And at the end of the day, if I was getting told that I'd be going, you bet you just tell me what to do, how high do I have to jump? And it's not blindly following, but it's putting trust in the person who you know is caring about you. And you know, when you know what makes a person tick, what are their strengths, what are their weaknesses, and pushing them in areas that they're needing pushing in and pulling back on areas where it's not that important and getting that athlete to be on board and make it not like a dictatorship, but make it like a partnership. You know, the Trivalo coaches coach like they're coaching their children because they want the best out of their athletes because they know that that's their job is to make sure that their athletes are getting the best training that is going to give them the best outcome. And so if the athlete's not actually trusting that process, then it's not going to work. And that's the story from the Detroit Lions. If those guys didn't buy in on that, on that pleading process, this would not have worked. And that's what we're saying to you for 2025 as an athlete. If you feel like you're in the right program, then you've got to give that the respect that it's presented to and trust that process and get on board with it and be positive and be self motivated about tomorrow. I can't wait to wake up because I know that session is going to give me one step closer to being the athlet I want to be.

Yeah, it's funny what happens after an athlete like Tom becomes world champion. The most common question we get is what program is Tom on? And can I be on that program? And we've had some funny conversations with tribalo athletes and they'll be laughing if they listen to this episode because they know who they are. And they almost say it sheepishly because they know what our answer is going to be. And we say we're not giving one athlete special treatment. We're not giving one athlete a program that's really good but not everyone else. And the answer is, you know, we're giving the best program possible for each individual person. And for Trivalo athletes, you know, they're on the Tom Page program and not the exact same program because every athlete is individual. But you're on the best program that we believe will get you the fastest way to success if you stick to it. And that's as simple as it needs to be. And obviously, if you're not a tribal athlete, then we can't say you're on that program. But the point is, if you've got something that. A process that's working, then trust the process and. And trust your coach.

Yeah, I think there's not much to be said about that, and we've got too many more points to dwell on, I think, before we be here all night, so. Keep going, Jordan.

The next don't we want to just quickly touch on and I think we mentioned it a lot at the end of last year, but we're still hearing this. You know, just go as hard as you can, just train as hard as you can, just race as hard as you can. Strategy. People going into races with no race plan and no execution strategy. And we just want to cut that out. You know, we feel like it's almost like people were getting quite tied up in the Norwegian method, which is very measured and very balanced and a very great way of executing. And then because that's kind of not as fashionable right now, everyone's going the other way and going that you just got to race. You just got to race as hard as you can and just guts it out. And that's coming from the pros, but it's really creeping down into age group discussion, which we're just going, no, not at all. That's absolutely not it. And we don't want to hear it anymore.

And I think that pros should be stopped talking like that, that it's not getting the outcome for them either. So this is groundswell of just going beyond your limit, which I think is detrimental to, certainly to age groupers. That's just a strategy that's going to be nothing more than disappointing race after race. You're going to disappoint yourself if you keep going down that pathway. So, of course, having a race plan and then trying to execute it are the two main things that we talk about a lot in their podcast. And all of our Trivalo athletes have that. They have a race plan and their job is to execute it. And, you know, when you hear that the pros are just abandoning that strategy and they're just going to race each other, well, that'll work for someone. And, you know, the person who wins, it's worked for. And the other 30 or 40 it hasn't worked for because it doesn't work all the time. It's only going, it's like you starting on the start line. And I remember this vividly. I remember one of the marathons I ran. I think there was, I think it might have been Steve Montaguetti was on the start line and you know, he is just cutting shoulders, head and shoulders above the rest of the field. I think there might have been 2,000 athletes at this particular race, you know, back in the, back in the day. And for those who don't know who Steve Montaguetti is, he's one of the Australian legendary marathon runners from, from the 80s, 90s and 2000s. And he's still an absolute gun runner now. And he, he's don't even know how old he is at the moment, but he's right up there. And the point I'm making is the majority of the field were with him after 1k and he's the only one who can run 3 minute k pace. Everybody else in the field is running 4, 5 or 6 or 7 minute k pace, yet they were still with him in the first K. And that is just crazy. Running, running. You know, they should have been with him for two or three steps at the most and let him run his race and they should be running their race and, and that's the point we're trying to make. You can't run at a level that's above yourself. The only outcome is you're going to fail in that actual event or training session.

Yeah, I don't, I really, on this podcast, I really. We both try to never speak critically of a pro athlete and that's never our intention. We're always just, you know, observing races and events because we love watching them. It's our favorite thing to do and discuss them. So as an armchair expert, you know, I can't, I can't do what the pros do. But I was just shocked at not necessarily what Hayden Wall did at the world champ, so because that's how he races, but I was just shocked at the response of it where he went out at 2:55 minute K pace, 250 or so. In fact, I think his first 500 was at like 2:30 to 2:40 pace. You know, so he was on world record half marathon pace in the first 500 meters. But then in the first couple of K he was on track for 61, 62 minute half marathon, you know, just, just mind blowing speed. And of course he blew up and, and that was always going to happen at that pace. And you ran the back half a lot slower. You know, say what you want about his, his strategy. He has to have, he wants to race aggressive. I'm just shocked that no one, no one's commented on that. You know, in all of the race analysis and, and stuff I was looking at online in articles and in comments and from commentators and, and any, any, any kind of conversation online, no one was really mentioning it. And that just surprised me that there was clearly an execution issue of just going out way above what, you know, no triathlete, no matter how good you are, is going to be able to hold anywhere from 61 to 64 minute pace for a half marathon at the back end of a 70.3. You know, he was, he did say his goal at the start was 65 minutes, which was crazy ambitious. But the best guys are going to run somewhere between 67 and 70 minutes and that was a slower course in the end. So look, I was just, you know, to your point about even the pros, you know, should stop having this strategy if the pros shouldn't be doing it and the age group is definitely shouldn't be doing it.

Yep. I can't agree with you more. And you know, there will be a time when the pros could possibly run a 65 Jordan. And you know that's probably coming, coming that, that pace. But you don't get that. The point we're trying to say is for, for 20, 25, you won't get that by executing, you know, at a pace that's 30 or 40 seconds per km faster. You'll get it by executing it at 65 pace the whole way. And that's what we're trying to say is run the pace from the start. Don't try and run ahead of, ahead of your schedule and so that you can get ahead of the time because the outcome is going to be, you're going to fade. And you know, Hayden's done it in the Olympics and now he's done it at the world championships. He's, he's lost with the same strategy both times. And if he does it a third time, I don't know, I just have to shake my head. I don't know. It's just, it's not possible to do it again. You've got to learn from your lessons. And that's the thing about race analysis, is to understand what you did well, understand how you can do things better. And if you're not learning the lesson, then if you go out the next race and, and you know, if you, and I'm thinking that maybe it's okay in races where the field isn't so strong and you're not going to pay the penalty.

Yeah.

But when you're against the world's best like you were at the Olympics or the world championships, then that strategy, you know, is always going to come undone because someone else is running a better strategy than you are. So. So that's what I worry about. And when you are successful, like Hayden is super successful. He's won so many races. Races. But you know, I'm not saying the field that he's racing against or not all those other races was diminished any. But sometimes, you know, if you have a strategy that's over ambitious, you're going to fall on your face and people might say, well, what's wrong with that? You know, at least he's having a go. And that's the point we're trying to say for the age group is there is lots wrong with that. We don't want you to do it that way because it doesn't work. And it's going to be one out of a hundred that it works for you. You know, you must have this incredible day for you to race so far above your limit level. And you know, as age groupers, we're not. That's not what we're in it for. We're in it to have an enjoyable day where we're not going to collapse at the end.

Next do point for the year is. This is just a really quick one. But I really wanted to say keep an eye out for new technology because things are evolving very rapidly and there is so much stuff coming out and I'm seeing a lot of stuff on the market that isn't just shiny object syndrome, meaning it's just something new and flashy. This gadget that looks kind of cool but isn't going to work. I think there's actually some really groundbreaking stuff. Stuff coming out and a good example of that was the headband coolers that every single pro were at Kona. That is really game changing because we know how much body temperature has an impact on your ability to perform. And so for someone to create something like that that every single pro wants to wear because it's going to try and regulate their body temperature, we're going to be seeing a lot more of that kind of stuff come out. So keep an eye on that and see if you can get yourself a really quick, easy advantage in racing and be willing to try things. That's kind of my point there.

I'm excited too because pretty soon we'll be able to measure our lactate level in a race. And that's. That's a huge advantage for you to keep your level below your red zone. And look, people say, well, if the race is there to be raced, you know, you're going to worry about that. Well, it's going to allow you to set yourself up to a really good outcome. And I think technology like that, you know, I'm super excited about having that. You know, having heart rate was the first thing we had all those years ago, and average speed. And, you know, all of a sudden we've got power and we've got running paces. So, you know, these things will evolve. And I think it's. I think, yeah, this is a really good thing that you should be really looking for and searching for and ask questions about and is it value for your improvement?

And I want to do another do for the year because I really like that you brought this point up when we were preparing for this episode. And I want you introduce it because it's. It's. Again, it sounds simple on the surface, but the meaning behind it, I think, is just so important and such an important reminder that we want every athlete to. And we really encourage every athlete to remind themselves of for the whole year. So can you introduce this next one?

Can you just remind me, George, what we.

Oh, yes. I've got the notes in front of me. It's being kinder to yourself.

Yep. Okay. Yeah, no, it's. It's something that even I'm guilty myself of. And I think we all are. We're such a. We're our worst critics. And I think. I think for 20, 25, let's not be that person. Let's try to be kinder. And I think if you. If you set goals that are way too high, that's only going to create disappointment. And sometimes it gets so depressing that it is actually depressing. And it's not what you're there for. You're there to enjoy this sport that you love so much. And if it becomes a chore, then you will not continue doing it. You will lose the love of it. And, you know, I just remind myself, you know, days like today when we went out for a birthday ride, as you called it, I just thought to myself, I just love what I'm doing here. I'm so enjoying this ride and just. Just being out there, you know, at the back of, you know, one of the big cities in the world. And. And, you know, we barely saw a car, you know, for the three quarters of the ride we were on. And we Got some great views and some, you know, some rolling planes and. And just. It was just a joy to be out there. And. And that's the sort of thing I think you need to have more of. And. And if you. If you're continually challenging yourself too much in every training session, I don't think that's healthy. And you say many times that extreme behavior is unsustainable. So training too hard all the time, you know you're going to burn out. Training not enough, not with enough consistency. You're not going to reach any goals. You're going to be the same athlete year in, year out. So they're extreme behaviors. Not training enough and training too much. Be somewhere in between and be happy with where you are at any given point. And there are times when you can train hard and there are times when you can take it easy, have glimpses of those, take little snippets of those extreme behaviors. But the majority of the time should be in that middle area where you've got that balance right. So I'm wanting you to be kind to yourself and don't be so hard on yourself. The goal of being consistent is so difficult to do, and we very rarely have any athletes who can nail every session, every week for the whole year. So to have that as your goal is great, great. But be aware that there are going to be things that happen along that way, and you will have an interruption. Whether it's you're injured or sick or just can't be bothered for a day, you're going to have these things. We've said the term roadblocks. That's a really great analogy. You're going on this journey, everything's going well. Your progress is going up, your fitness is going up, you're improving, your testing's going the way you want it to, and all of a sudden you get a health SC or someone unfortunately passes away in your family that's close to you or someone close to you, you've got these roadblocks, and I'm being harsh on that. These are people you love and care about. And all of a sudden then your training is not important anymore. Your loved ones are more important, or your health is more important, or something dramatic has happened in your world that is way more important than your training. And that's where you need to actually take stock of yourself and say, okay, I'm going to have a period where I just can't train properly and I'll do my best. And don't be too hard on yourself when you're missing sessions and people are just beating themselves up about, I'm sorry, I had this 28 day streak of not missing a session and I've just lost it and the world's going to end. It's not, it's okay. And that's the message I want to get across. I want you to be consistent, I want you to have goals, I want you to, to be pushing yourself but it can't be at the detriment of your, of your life. And you know, the passion that we do with cycling, running and triathlon is our fun period. You know, we've got our families and our responsibilities as a parent, as a dad and a mum and a family member or as a worker in a business or what you've got your own business. These are the things that are precious that are put on you. And the training one isn't. That's something that we've got a choice around. People could say we've got a choice with work and with the family as well, but maybe you have, maybe you don't. But at the end of the day, the passion you have, you have a big choice there. You can choose to do it extreme or you can choose to do it lazily or you can do something in between. And that's where being kind to you, to yourself is going to help you make that better decisions about what you should be doing each day of the year. Year. So I think that's a, it's a hard one to get right but it's something I really want you to really think about this year is to, is to be kinder to yourself about sessions and training and goals.

Yeah. The only thing I'll add there is that it's probably one of the most common conversations we end up having with athletes is their own disappointment in themselves when they've missed a session. And you mentioned it earlier where you say to athletes, don't ever apologise to me. We're not here to. Our job isn't to see if you can do every session. Our job is to help you train as effectively as you can with the time and the energy and the resources that you've got. And so I think just understanding that every single athlete has interruptions from complete beginner to pro, every single one. There's not one that doesn't. And so it's not a matter of if it happens to you where you miss a session or you have an interruption, it's about what kind of mindset you're going to be in that time. And so it's no service beating yourself up. There's absolutely nothing for you. You, it's how you're going to handle that and then how you're going to try and improve and keep showing up after that. And that's kind of the key point. So the next don't for the year. And we're almost getting ready to wrap up here. But this is actually a bit of an unwritten rule with Tribalo and we used to talk about this a lot but we haven't discussed it in a while and we think it's really, really important because it's a relentless discussion that can be frustrating as coaches coaches to really get this right. And it's the notion of don't get your ability and ambition confused. So your ability, so what you're actually capable of versus your ambition, what you want to do and really talk about what do you mean by this and what are you trying to get athletes to understand?

Well, I think ambition is great. I think we all need to have ambition and have goals. So I'll use an example of someone who trying to run a four hour marathon and they're currently a four hour 25 and that is a big gap to try to cross. And that might be something that I would say, okay, that's a great ambition. But my answer to that person might be that in three years time I reckon you're probably able to cross that 25 minute gap and that would come as a shock to most people that, you know, I would say, you know, you're not quite ready for that. Most people go great, let's train towards that. But you've got to, you've got to function on plug in, not function. You've got to allow for the current ability that you have. And if you're currently at best a 4:25-4:30 marathon runner, that's a lot of work under the bridge that has to happen before you get to four hours. So. So you've got to be realistic about where your current ability is, around what your goal or your ambition is. And that's where the confusion happens. And so a lot of people pick that number instead of saying how long do you think it would take before I could get to a four hour marathon? That would be a better question. And that's the way I would rather the athletes approach it is I've got this goal. What do you think is four hours achievable for me? That's they're already thinking about, I know I'm a 4:25 runner. That's my current ability, you know, coach, do you think I'm capable of a four hour. That's a better discussion. And then you could get a realistic response from the coach who knows you so well. And the coach would say, well, you know, you haven't reached the ceiling anywhere near where you're capable of because you've just started your training and you've only been doing it for two years. You haven't done a lot of endurance runs. You were, you know, a runner whose longest run was 90 minutes. And you know, if you get some more long runs in, you could really, you know, get to that target in 18 months or could take three years, but depends on how well your training goes. So these are things that I think has to be discussed is. And if you don't do that this year, then you will be disappointed a lot of the time. And I think that's, that's a really key thing for each athlete is to, to select a goal for the year that is realistic and select a goal for your next period of time. And don't make it one year, don't make it six months, don't make it three months. I want to do 300 watts in the next 12 weeks. Well, that's just a figure that could or couldn't be achieved. Don't have that as a goal. Know, you know, I'm at 230 watts. You know, I've got a goal of 300. How long do you think that'll take me, coach? Well, you know, on your current trajectory, that might take you four or five years. Rather than saying my goal for 20, 25 is to get to 300 watts. You know, that's the ability, ambition, confusion I'm talking about.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with having goals. It's just we're trying to eliminate the. I think the lesson here is trying to eliminate the notion of just plucking a number that sounds good. It's so common to do that, especially when it comes to these big events. Half Ironman, marathon, Half marathon, whatever. Ironman, where people go, I want to break five hours for the half Ironman or I want to break four hours for the marathon or I want to go sub 11 or sub 10 for the Ironman. They're just these clean numbers that people kind of pick. And yeah, you're really saying you need to reverse engineer it, do it the other way. You need to. If a good example is if this happens a lot actually where someone who's not a runner, who knows I'm a runner, will come to me and say, I'm going to do a marathon, what do you think I can do? And I just say, well, the easiest way to figure it out is, and this is, is someone normally with not much running experience. I'd say go do a 5 or 10k time trial. And from that time we can tell you we can pretty accurately predict what you're capable of. From there you could make a stretch goal of if you trained really well for a long period of time. If you gave yourself six months or a year, here's your stretch goal of what you could really do at the upper end. Here's where you're more realistically going to be. If you train on a solid program, if you don't do much training and you're inconsistent, you're probably going to be down here. And that's a more realistic picture of, of where their ability is. And they can choose their ambitious goal from there. But to do it the other way. For that person to come and say, well, I want to break four hours, but if they go and do a 10k time trial and they run 70 minutes for that 10k, then there's no way they're going to be able to run 4 hours, 42k under 4 hours. That's just not going to happen. So, yeah, I think that's an extreme example of a beginner athlete. But I think it's really understanding that don't just throw a number on it out there. That sounds good. There's no shame in, you know, finding out what your ability is. And if it's, you know, 4 hours 25 for the marathon, like you said, you know, there's no shame in going, okay, 4:15 is a stretch goal. I'm going to go for sub 4 15. That's what I want to do. Just because it's not a clean number like four hours, you know, it's just a really common thing we see that we want to eliminate.

I think there's no ceiling here. I've said that to many athletes. I think, you know, a 4 hour 25 runner who's been doing a short time could end up running three hours, you know, over a period of time. So, you know, four hours could be, it's just a stepping stone. But I think you've got to have that conversation about where's my current ability and what do you think, coach, in the next six months or year, where do it do you think I can get to? And, you know, the answer is very, you know, detailed is how much training you're doing. You Know, what's your background, you know, how quickly are you able to improve, how far close to your ceiling are you already? So, yeah, the main point is just really get a good grip on where your current form is and your ability and then you can make better decisions about goals.

Yep, yep, that's a great way to finish. Last point here. And it's a do and a don't combine. It's quite simply don't select events that aren't going to fit into your lifestyle and the do is select events that are going to be enjoyable for your lifestyle. And we want to talk about both sides of this coin.

Yeah. And I think putting pressure on yourself by selecting events. And look, this happens a lot and I know a lot of athletes out there do this and it's funny, but sometimes it's actually a really bad outcome. They're all sitting there after the event, they've just finished, okay, what are we going to do next? And everybody's having a beer and having a laugh and having a great time and really enjoying and soaking up the moment of. They've done this great preparation for the big race and they've succeeded and they've got the, got the goals they wanted. What are we doing next? And it might have been an Olympic distance or it might have been a half ironman, and they're all sitting there saying, well, I'm going to do an Ironman. And there's people in that group, in that table who feel the pressure from that sentence and they're thinking that, well, I would love to do that, but I know that I would work 60 hours a week and I've got three kids and I can't do the training. And so, you know, just because of peer group pressure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do, let's do that next race in basso in 2025, or let's do that Ironman in Cairns. And, and they're selecting event, an event that's going to put enormous pressure on their life. And that's, that's something we try to avoid, is you've. You've got to select events that fit in with your lifestyle. And at the end of the day, if you're selecting something that's way above your time available, then you're going to be frustrated with everything. You're not going to be able to do the training that's set for you because you don't have the time and you're not going to get the fitness level. You need to complete that event in the shape or the form that you would have expected to do. So we're saying select things that fit into your lifestyle. So rather than going along with the flow and saying, yeah, let's do the ironman, man picking, you know, don't be the sheep. Pick an event that suits you and, you know, not only your time, but suits you as a, as a human being. You know, if you're a person who's heavier than most, doing an Ironman is going to be really difficult. If you're a person who's got really good endurance, doing an Ironman is going to suit you. If you're a short power sort of athlete, you know, doing something like a marathon is not for you. You know, you should be thinking more about 5 and 10ks. They should be. You know, just because I think I'm frustrated with the fact that people want the endurance event to be longer and longer. The challenge of the duration of the event seems to be the thing you can have just as much fun doing. What was that, Jordan?

That's right. Ultras have become so popular. People just want more and more and more.

You know, I think you can have just as much fun in achieving things if you're doing half marathon or a 10k where, or an Olympic distance. You know, train yourself to be, you know, smashing PBS there if your time is short. So I think selecting events that suit your, your physical fitness level and your lifestyle, I think that would be a big push for me for this year.

Yeah, you're not, you're not trying to put any limits on people, so don't get, get that twisted here. And we're not saying don't only do the events that suit you and don't go outside of your box. That's not what we're saying. We're saying don't suit events that are going to add more stress or negatively impact your life. If you're suited to more shorter events, but you want to do an Ironman and you've got the time to train for it and you've got the resources to train for it, then absolutely go for it. We're not saying just stay in your box, but it's a fine line between selecting challenges that will be good for you and motivating compared to events that are going to negatively impact your life. And there is so much power, and we see this so often where athletes are just kind of going through the motions, training aimlessly because they don't have an event in front of them. And as soon as you put an event in front of them, they get their ass into Gear and it's the best thing for them because suddenly there's a clear focus and each session has a purpose because you're working towards this. That's really great, but there's that fine line between doing that. But if you pick an event that's too far out of reach and you're overextending yourself, it becomes a really negative experience.

And look, you will hate yourself, you will hate life, you'll hate the session, you hate training and you actually give the sport up, which is because you've selected the wrong event. And I've got many examples of athletes who have asked me to train for events that I don't think is suitable for them and they've said, no, I want to do this. And I've said, okay, but I've given you the consequences of what you're asking in terms of time, in terms of family, in terms of the fatigue that you're going to get from. I'm talking long endurance events, whether it's a ultra trail running race or a triathlon or a 3 peaks 10 hour bike fondo, you've got to understand the consequences. And then if you're okay with that. And the one example I think I mentioned a long, long time ago, in very early years, was one of my good friends Sean, who's a hundred kilo, really powerful ex tennis player who really loved riding his bike. He wanted to do the Ball Ball Classic, which is finishes with a 5k climb, average gradient of 18% and it only suits mountain goats. And you know, Sean wanted to do.

This race and I said, lightweight mountain goats.

Yeah. This is the wrong race for you, Sean. No, no, I want to do this race. And we trained him up for it and he did it and he performed incredibly. He lost 20 kilo, ended up racing at 83.4kilo. He finished in the top 10 in his age group. He was just so excited about, you know, reaching that challenge and, and for me, I gave him the information and he, he said, no, I'm, I'm good with all that and I just want to do my best. And that's a great example of what you're saying. You know, there will be athletes who are outside their comfort zone and we're encouraging that. As long as you understand the consequences of your decision, that's all.

Yeah, that's perfect. So there's two sides of the coin there, but just know that bigger and better isn't more impressive. And it's probably my only gripe or problem with the running boom. And I have very Few of them, because I just love how much running has taken off and run clubs have taken off. But there's this notion that, you know, you're not a real runner unless you do a marathon, or you're not a real runner until you do an ultra or something like that. I just really don't like that. It's just not about that at all. You know, if you're getting your foot out the door and you're, you know, someone that's training as hard as they can for a 5k or a 10k or a half marathon is, is just as impressive to me. And the marathon is the Mecca of running. But you don't have to do that to be classified as the good achievement. And I think people are getting caught up in that when it really doesn't suit them. And so it's a really big point to finish on.

I just want to say, Jord, the 5K park run, that is the best thing that's happened in the last 5, 10 years. And to get people out walking 5k with the pusher and the dog and some people walk running, some people just starting to run a little bit, and then you've got elite guys doing 14 minute 5K's all in the same event. It's brilliant. I just think this is one of the best things that's happened and it's achievable. It's a 5K. It's something that beginner runners can work towards. And I agree totally with you. And I think there will be a massive amount of people injured from all those runners who have run a marathon with six months training, they probably won't be able to run well for a long time because they've injured themselves so badly. They've got to the marathon finish, but they haven't been able to run again. And that's something that I'm really against.

We've seen it already. We personally know people who decided to do an ultra out of nowhere 100k just for this big group thing. And they haven't made a run for a year. That is the consequences. But look, in conclusion, we don't want to end on a necessarily negative note. I think the point you made when you were talking about being kinder to yourself is that, yeah, there is going to be good and bad all year for the next year, but just always remembering that this training is our fun hobby and passion. And like you said about writing today, we just love this. We don't want this part of your life to become a stressful part or negatively impacting your life. It's our source of enjoyment. So make sure we keep adding. Making sure we're using it to add to our life and not add more pressure. I think that's a way we want to finish.

Yeah, I think that's a great summary, Jordan. Look, I've got a big passion right now. I love riding my bike and I love the fact that I'm healthy. That's what I said in the gratitude because I know that things can change very quickly in your life. I've just experienced it and there's gonna be highs and lows. Everybody's gonna go through that. If you think you're immune to that, you're wrong. You're going to have highs and lows in 2020. And the measure of the woman or the man is how you deal with those highs and lows, how you navigate your year and staying calm and staying relaxed. And if you put too much pressure on the thing you already love and make that a stress as well, then that's going to be a hard 2025 for you. So my advice is the concluding message is to make it a fun year. Sure. Train with intensity and with purpose and direct. But don't make it the be all and end all. Make it the fun that it was. That the reason why you took it up, because you like doing it. And as you know, in life, if you like doing something, you will be eventually quite good at it. So it might take three or four years, but, you know, if you have that mindset, I love what I'm doing. And if the minute it becomes a chore, you need to pull back, that's my advice.

That's enough of this episode. Good luck for the rest of the year. We'll be here all year giving you the best episodes possible to help your training and racing journey. We're really looking forward to it. Thanks as always for listening and we'll see you on the next episode.