An Unfiltered Look Into the Training + Mindset of Ellie Salthouse

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. Last week on the podcast we had Australia's number one male triathlete PTO ranked at the moment. And this week we've got Australia's number one female ranked PTO triathlete. And that is Ellie Salthouse. Ellie started triathlon back when she was 10 or 11 years old. She's been in the sport for 18 years. She came to the junior ranks becoming a really gun triathlete and she was on the ITU world circuit racing Olympic distance for a few years before switching her hand to half distance ironman specialty 70.3s in 2016. And she had an absolute killer first season winning a bunch of races. And since then she's gone on to win 17 half Ironmans since turning her Focus 270.3s at a further 10 podiums. So finishing first, second or third in 27 championship races, which is an exceptional record and a best place of fifth at the 70.3 World Champs, which you found out in the episode, is not good enough for Ellie. She has really high ambition and she blatantly wants to be world champion. And you really hear the determination and inspiration that she has for her big goals this year and every year she's been competing and she gives a great interview and as always, dad, we get some great insight.

Yeah. And we have interviewed a lot of professional athletes and coaches over the journey and I found this one to be really interesting because she, she comes from a little bit of a different point of view and tries a few different variations and does things a lot different to the average person. And she, she herself said that a lot of the pros are doing similar things at that level. And you know, we delve into the mindset of, of what is going to be the difference between her getting that ultimate goal of being a world champion or not. And, and she's a very determined athlete. And yeah, I was, I was really raptured to hear her insights into how she's going to go about this journey this year and her goal in, in October of the, of the 70.3 world titles and, and how things that the past, now she has to do differently, her mindset has to change and she has to be thinking about things a little bit differently. So it's really good for the age group athlete to Understand that it's not all clean sailing and they have to really think through things and not continue to do the same thing over and over and expect the same result. We have to actually change things up. And she is really determined to change her mindset. She's got a really good group of people around her that might help her achieve that. And I'm really excited to see how she goes this year. And we're really proud to see another Australian right at the top level, you know, really mixing it with the best.

Without further ado, here is the episode with Ellie Salthouse. Ellie Salthouse, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Our first question that we love to ask the guest is, what does the sport of triathlon mean to you?

Hi. Thanks for having me. Triathlon's my world, it's my life, and I love everything about it. Um, I love the atmosphere, I love the community, obviously love racing and training for triathlon. Um, and obviously I just love pushing myself to my limits every day, and I get that opportunity with it being my job, so I feel very privileged.

Amazing answer. Um, so we're just getting you now a couple of weeks after you just went to Geelong. 70.3. Um, and you had some issues on the run and ended up pulling out of the race, which is just not something any athlete likes to do. Must have been a hard call for you. Um, but first race of the season, you were looking after yourself. So can you explain to us what happened and what you were dealing with?

Yeah, I mean, a DNF is not what any athlete wants to have to do during a race. But, yeah, unfortunately I had a small niggle going into the race. Um, and so it was a little bit of a gamble actually, even starting, but I felt good in the week, leading in, and I didn't have any problems. But unfortunately, I jumped on the bike in the race and that's when I felt things not going quite right in my hamstring. So, yeah, just to be careful and to be safe for the rest of the season, I decided to call it a day just after the start of the run, primarily because obviously it's very early in the season, being February and all the championship races later in the year. So I just need to be really smart at this time of year. I'm definitely not championship fit. So there's no point jeopardizing anything now for the sake of pushing through a potential injury.

That's a great answer for all those listening, and I know a lot of the age group who push through injuries because this is their race that they've been training for. And it's really refreshing to hear you say, you know, you're thinking long term and, you know, that's one of the things that I try to drum into our athletes, is that just because you're prepared for this one particular race, if things don't go well, you've just made a great example of you have to live to fight another day. And does that happen to you very often?

Yeah. Well, thanks. No. Actually, this is my first DNF ever, so it was a little bit disappointing, but I would like to think I've learned from my mistakes. Previously, I've had my fair share of injuries definitely in my career, but I guess now I'm nearing my 18th year in the sport. So I think I've learned along the way that if anything's a bit off or something doesn't feel feel right. There's definitely a time and a place to push through, depending on what the feelings are. But anything that's injury related or, you know, could potentially become an injury if you push through. It's just really not worth it. You know, maybe if this was a world championship race and you know, is do or die, then, you know, there could be a time and a place for that. But I wasn't willing to risk the rest of my season for an early season, small level race.

It's an incredible record to be your first DNF after all this time. I have the exact opposite record. My very first race was a dnf.

So.

What, second and your third.

Up from there.

Exactly. It was about start. Um, so I want to know what, what's happening in the short term though. Do you know what it is? It's just a niggle. And how are you managing it? And I mean, I know you had. You were thinking about doing Husky the week after and you ended up not doing that. So what's your thought process at the moment?

Yeah, I mean, it's just a little strain. It's just, you know, painful every now and again. So I am training, I'm back into full training now for the rest of the year. So I think I'm on top of things, but I just need to manage it, be really diligent with recovery and all those little things outside of training just to stay on top of it and make sure it doesn't turn into anything worse.

That's great. So we want to dive into your season ahead. What are your goals this year? What are your big races, what's on the calendar? And when are you Getting yourself in championship form.

Yeah. So this year we have actually four opportunities for a championship level race. So obviously 70.3 world champs is the big goal for me. But that's late October, much later than usual. So that leaves us plenty more opportunity for other racing this year. So my first big race will I'll go to the 70.3 European Championships at the end of June in Denmark. So I really want to be. That'll be my A race for the first half of the year and then after that I'll back off for a little bit. I'm going to do the PTO Tour Series as well. So newly released, I'll go to Edmonton in July for the first of those races. Hopefully qualify myself also for the Collins cup again in August. It was incredible experience last year, so I'd love to be a part of that again. And then September I'll head to the second PTO Tour event in Texas before World Champs in October. So pretty big.

Yeah, very big. So explain to us how the PTO season and the Collins Cup's working this year. How many series races are there and then when is the Collins Cup?

Yeah, so the Collins cup is August again back in Slovakia at the X Bionic Sphere, the same place as last year. So basically all races now are qualifying us potentially for that event. So there are points with every race that we do challenge and Ironman as well as a few other non sanctioned events that contribute to the point system. But yeah, it's basically there's obviously the three teams. So I'm vying for the Team International. I'm sitting second in the rankings at the moment for that and they take four automatic spots and two discretionary spots. So they'll be decided at the end of July. So the cutoff for that. So hopefully I'll be a part of that. The first PTO Tour event was announced recently and that will be in Edmonton, Canada. So that's a qualification race for the Collins cup. But it's also, it takes the first 50 women in the PTO rankings up to that point get to race in that one as well. So it's kind of an invitation, kind of a qualification process to be on the start line for those events as well.

And not many events have, you know, a full list of the top 50 racing. You know, normally it might be a field of 20 or so apart from the World Champs or something. So that's going to be a pretty exciting race. How are you managing your form from May through to October? What's your, what's your plan? With your coach around that and peaking and then maintaining again and peaking. It's a lot of kind of key races to try and do well in, but obviously not. They're all not your A race.

Yeah, I think I like to have two A races, kind of one in the first half of the year, one in the second half of the year. So World Champs is always the big one for the second half of the year. And as I said, Denmark will be probably my A race for the first half of the year. So right now I'm kind of back into a base block. I'm just doing lots of, like, slow, easy, enjoyable miles. I don't want to ramp anything up too quickly because I don't want to peak too early and then have to take a break when I don't really need to. So, yeah, I'm still keeping everything quite mellow and I'll start more specifically tuning my training probably around May to get me ready for those races. Um, but yeah, I think if I were to have all four of those races, a championship race would be nearly impossible. So I really just have to prioritize which ones are important to me and which ones I want to be championship ready and which ones that I may potentially be 90% ready for.

There's a little dilemma, there, isn't there? Because you do need points to qualify for the actual events you want to actually be in, yet you might not be in tip top form. How do you mentally approach that? And obviously, how do you get your program to enable you to actually get the qualification points that you need?

Yeah, well, I think luckily the point systems are based on the entire year of racing and not just that one specific race, which is great because it doesn't mean that everything's buying on that one race. But I think adjusting your expectation and perspective on a race is an important way to go in when you know you're not going to be, you know, 100% championship ready, which you can't be. If you were to do that all year round, it would be impossible and you would get injured and you probably wouldn't have a season next year. So, yeah, I think you just really need to prioritize which ones are important to you. And obviously World Champs for me has always been my big goal, so that will be the priority and then everything else kind of falls into place behind that.

I'd love to. Sorry, Jord, I know we're both very keen to ask questions here, but I'd love to hear how you felt you've gone over the journey in Getting yourself to your number one race, have you done well to get yourself the form that you want to on the day it counted or is it something that you've kind of hit or miss or. Yeah, just take us through some of the examples where you've, you've absolutely nailed the form on the right day and some days or races where you've gone, I got that wrong as there's, you know, I really didn't do that well.

You know, I think every year I go to world championships in my absolute fittest condition, my best possible form, but mentally is where I fall short. So I think that's something that I really need to work on is being mentally fit rather than physically fit. Because I know what it takes to get to the physical pinnacle of my year and how to get there. And I get there every year and I'm fine. But I really need to work on the mental side of things for the world Championships. That's where I fell short last year. So I think for me I haven't seen the best of myself on the world championship arena and that's what I would really love to focus on this year.

What do you mean by you're falling short? What's, what's, what's going on there? Like how do you, how are you analyzing that and assessing that in yourself?

Yeah, I think I put a lot of pressure on myself and I think that comes with being a professional athlete and being somewhat of a perfectionist and you know, wanting to strive for perfection. So I think I'm taking the approach this year that is just another race. It's just like any other day and I'm just going to try and get from start, start to finish as fast as possible and race for myself rather than, you know, worrying about outside influences. And I think that's going to help me get the best day out of myself.

That's a really good point. And a lot of even age groupers have families expectations and they've trained and they've sacrificed a lot. There's nothing compared to what a professional is doing because that's your full time career. So the expectation must be triple from outside influences. And that's a really good point. The fact that you're making, you need to now concentrate on your own performance rather than worrying about how people perceive you. Is that going to be something you think that's going to absolutely be a game changer for you? And how important do you think getting that right is for your next, your season this year at the Worlds?

Yeah, I think it's going to be huge if I can work on that. Because after last year when I essentially choked in the World Championship, I think I realized that a lot of the expectation that I was feeling from other people wasn't even there. And it was just coming from myself personally. So I think stepping back and looking at. From an outsider's perspective, there is really no pressure. I mean, my family still love me, my friends still love me, no matter how I go at the World Championship. So the only pressure that's really there is coming internally from myself. So I think if I can take some of that pressure off and just realize that, yes, it's the World Championship, but the sun will still come up tomorrow, regardless of what happens. It puts things back into perspective and makes it seem like it's just any other old race.

I really love that it's you. What you're saying really sounds like the words of Ash Barty, who just won the Australian Open. And she had a few years where she was number one and the pressure got to her and she openly talked about it in the media. And this year, before the Oz Open, she kept saying that whether I win or lose, I'm not a bad person. You know, it's exactly what you're saying. My family still loved me. And because she took that pressure off, she seemed to perform better this year, which I thought was amazing and inspiring. Um, but we did want to talk about that World Championship race. Um, and I'm glad, I'm glad you brought it up. And I mean, choked is a very harsh word on yourself, and that comes from being a perfectionist. But you, you had a great start to the season. You won four from four. I think you. I was long, long course champion. Um, 370.3 championships. Again, you're in flying form. Like you said, physically, you got yourself there in peak condition. Yeah. Talk us through that race and how it all unfolded and I guess mentally, what were you feeling on the start line, knowing you're in great form?

Yeah, I mean, I went into that World Championship with all the confidence in the world. I was having some of my best sessions, hitting some of my best numbers, and I honestly thought there was no way that I wasn't going to win World Championships. So I guess I put that much pressure on myself to win, and I was entirely focused on winning. And that's where I went wrong. Essentially what I needed to be focusing on was the process and getting. Getting there, and the outcome would take care of itself. But unfortunately, my entire focus for probably eight months leading into that Race was about becoming a world champion and not how to get there. So I think that's where I'm really going to change things this year. I think, yeah, I need to enjoy the process more and just stay in the moment, focus on doing every little thing right at every moment of every day. And yeah, the outcome will entirely take care of itself. Yeah, I mean, after a lot of analysis of that. Right. That's really the only thing that I can come up with that went wrong. And yeah, that's basically the pressure I put on myself and I was focusing on the wrong things.

That's gold for all those age groupers listening. One of my big sentences is, you know, the journey is just as important as the destination, and if you just concentrate on the destination, you forget about the actual enjoyment of getting there. And we do this because we love it and we love getting the buzz of being fit and nailing training sessions and, and then culminating for the preparation of race day where you can put it all together. And, and you know, if I, from what I hear you saying, this will be a, this will be a completely different experience from you. If you can concentrate on the things you're saying, it'll be a really good outcome. And it would be another example to everybody listening that, you know, no matter where you sit as a beginner, an intermediate, advanced or a pro, you still have to concentrate on the process and that will look after the actual outcome. And, and that is a lesson that, you know, you've had to learn the hard way. And it's, it's, it's hard one to swallow, isn't it? And, and boy, you learn more things from the negative outcomes and you do the positives. Would you agree with, with that?

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I learned so much from last year's race and it hurt like hell to go through that. And it took me actually a long time to get over it fully. Um, maybe I'm still not completely over what happened. Um, it did hurt a lot. But I think I learned so much and I think it's given me an opportunity to reassess the way I'm looking at my training and the way I'm looking at my racing and how I'm going about it, because something that goes that incredibly wrong, it's really turns your world upside down and it shows you that you need to do something differently. So I'm looking at it as an opportunity to change and an opportunity to do things differently for this year.

And I mean, for the listener, you, it shows the high standard you have for yourself because you're demanding yourself to be world champion and you're one of the best athletes in the world. So it's, you know, when you fall short, you still want the best athletes in the world. Australia's best half ironman athlete. And you're not doing too badly, but you can hear it in your voice.

Yeah, they're too kind.

The goal you want, I want to talk a bit, a little bit about analysis later. The analysis you went through, I know you would have gone through with your coach Siri in detail. And that's something that's probably her specialty. So we want to get to that later. But I want to take, take it back to talking about your training right now. And we're really fascinated in training blocks and what athletes focus on in training blocks. Um, and you said a brilliant thing before which we want all our listeners to take in because we say it all the time. You can't peak all year, so you have to pick your blocks properly and you're in a clear base block right now. So what does a base block look like to you? Um, you said kind of easier sessions, quote unquote, you know, kind of mellowing sessions. So what's, what's a training week look like in a base? In a base block for you?

Yeah, so I've kind of gone back into a base block because typically I would start racing now, but I had a little bit of a false start with the niggle. So I've gone back into a base block. But essentially for me, I took four weeks off over October, November after, well, up after I finished racing last year after Worlds and that was quite a long off season for me. So it meant that it's gonna take a bit longer to get ready. So I went straight into a swim block. Four weeks of basically 60 to 80k in the pool for four weeks. There's not a whole lot of bike and run, maybe a 30 minute run every other day and an hour spin here and there just to mix things up. But yeah, that's a lot of swimming for me. So that four weeks and then four weeks of bike block, which is 4 to 500k a week. Yeah, again with a little bit of swim and run sprinkled in and then a four week run block, 60 to 80k of running and yeah, again, swim, bike kind of intermittently sprinkled in as well. And then a couple weeks of, you know, to maintain everything. And then I went to Geelong and had a little hiccup. But yeah, I now am back enough Full maintenance base block. So I'm doing all three, mostly just long easy base miles, not a lot of intervals. Or if anything I might do some big gear kind of work or some, you know, high end aerobic work on the run. But really there's nothing that should be. Well, nothing for me right now is really tempo or above the or threshold at all. So yeah, everything's kind of just nice and easy, enjoyable. I mean, there's lots of stopping for coffees on my rides and that kind of thing because I want to take this time now to really enjoy what I'm doing before it gets really ramped up in my race season.

And how long does this period go for until you start to become a little bit more specific in what you're actually trained, Changing your intensity?

Yeah, I'll be in this now probably for eight to 10 weeks and then we'll really start getting specific in terms of adding back in my temper runs and my, you know, threshold work. Um, right now I am still doing that in the pool because I think for me to maintain my high end swim, I need, you know, I need to maintain the threshold and tempo work in the pool. But all the bike and run now is just base mileage. So I'm swimming a little bit more than I normally would in race season as well, just because there's no load in the pool. So I can, you know, swim as much as I want with, with no repercussions on the lower body. So yeah, I'll do that for eight to 10 weeks and then I'll start being more specific as I go into my backend race season.

During this period, are you actually doing any particular strength work at a, at a slow, easy power rate or running, you know, undulations? Is there anything specific you're doing in the base period that's, that's, you know, that's you're actually concentrating on or is it just. It doesn't matter. You can ride on the flat or you can ride in the hills or just give us a little bit of a glimpse of how you go about that.

Yeah, so I'm doing one long ride a week. So that's four to five hours on the week and all just aerobic. And then during the week I'll do two specific, like hill rides. So it might be two to three hours, but go out on a hilly route, for instance, or maybe go to a two kilometer hill and do that, I don't know, six to eight times or something like that. But there's nothing that's fast. It's just all about building strength at the moment. So if I'm riding on the flat, I might do, for instance, I don't know, 5 by 10 minutes, just big gear grind with 5 minutes between or something like that. Just building strength, changing up things, you know, changing my cadence a little bit and just keeping things interesting so I'm not just aimlessly riding.

I was going to ask that. I mean, in any period where you're doing just endurance stuff, not the high intensity, there is a factor of almost getting bored because you don't do the fun stuff, do you? Do you find that at all? And how are your fatigue levels with doing so much endurance? It's a different kind of fatigue than when you're training really hard.

Yeah, I mean, it does get sometimes a little bit boring, especially if you're just riding or running solo and there's just hours on end of training. But yeah, I mean, my boyfriend does a lot of my training with me, so I'm lucky to have the company and I like to mix it up with different people around me. I think that's important to keep things interesting. I'm also swimming with a squad at the moment, so it's nice to mix things up there as well. But yeah, I mean, I do get fatigued with a lot of mileage, but it's not like a heavy loading on my body like a speed session might be. So as long as everything feels good in terms of injury free and my body's moving nicely, then it's not a huge concern. Obviously, I keep in regular contact with Siri, my coach, and if I'm really tired or I feel like I need a rest day or whatever else, then I'll definitely take that. But I think it's all about listening to your body, especially in a block like this, because, yeah, obviously you don't want to get injured and you don't want to make yourself sick or overly fatigued.

Was there something in particular that caused a little niggle in the hamstring? Has that been an ongoing thing from past history or is that just something new?

No, I've actually had a history of it. It's been an issue for a couple of years, so I just got to stay on top of it and maintain it. So, yeah, it was nothing specific that triggered it, but yeah, unfortunately it was the week that it decided to come on was the week before the race.

So have you spent, have you spent much time in, in really trying to manage that, as in rehab and obviously strengthening the weakness that. That seems to be your you know, the little niggle. How are you going about that?

Yeah, so it was actually a tendinopathy back in 2018, so I spent a lot of time rehabbing it and managing it, countless PRP injections, cortisone injections, and finally got on top of that. So I haven't actually had any problems with it since. Touch wood. So this is the first time that it's, you know, maybe I'm being over cautious because of the history that I've had with it, but I'd rather be over cautious than go back to where I was in 2018. But yeah, I work very closely with an exercise physiologist twice a week as well at the moment, and I have been for probably 18 months now. So, yeah, we work very closely in keeping on top of not only that issue, but my entire body and obviously strengthening my body so that it can withstand the training and the load.

My last question on the base block is, how long are your endurance runs and do they increase as well as the bike? Do they increase over the block or do you maintain on the bike four to five hours and whatever the run is?

No, everything kind of increases. Obviously you don't want to ramp things up too quickly. So across the, say four to 10 weeks or whatever the block may be, it starts at a lower end, aerobic, and then it builds up so 10, 20, 30 minutes across each week. So my long runs at the moment are an hour and a half to an hour 40. And then, you know, next week I might go to an hour 45 or something like that and just slowly incrementally increase it so that I'm not having that big ramp in load or volume that can potentially cause some dramas down the track. Um, but yes, I start off maybe on the bike, three hours, um, that's a pretty standard ride for me. Uh, and then maybe the week after three and a half and slowly build up like that. Um, so yeah, I'm up to four to five now, so I didn't just start at that.

And what's the ceiling for both of them? Where will you stop increasing?

Yeah, I think for me, once I get really into a base block, two hours is probably the extent of my run volume. Um, I'll only usually get to one or two two hour runs before the end of the block. Um, they're not something I regularly do every weekend. Um, they are a long, a long run. Um, and the, the rides, four to five hours, same thing. I'll probably do three weekends of that kind of volume and then that will Be the end of the block.

So dad, I'm sure like me, you're dying to know what the training block is next. So after, after the baseball's done, you're getting closer to your first race. What are the, what are the, what does the training look like then? We're dying to know what kind of sessions doing.

Yeah, I mean we definitely will go into a more specific racing block. So obviously the tempo runs come back in, the speed comes back in and the volume decreases a little bit or quite a bit actually. So I'm still training around 25 hours a week during that block. But there is a lot more speed involved in that. So obviously I can't be, you know, doing speed all the time. So I have to mix it in with some easier recovery runs and that kind of thing as well. But that will also be when I have to increase my recovery and my strength sessions will become more mobility, agility, stretching, all that, just fascial movements because whilst I'm in a high intensity block of training, I can't keep the gym training heavy as well because it just doesn't work.

What are some examples of speed sessions for you?

The speed sessions, for instance, 15, 20 times three minutes on 1, 30 between things like that. When I'm in my fittest, when I'm at my fittest, that's one of my key sessions that I go to. I thought you said you dropped the volume three minutes. But obviously I work up to that point. So that would probably come maybe three weeks out from world championships, that kind of session. But we do a lot of build runs leading in so an hour, building every 20 or 20k, building every five. But that kind of session obviously as well comes later, maybe four, three or four weeks out from a world championship. For instance, when I'm at my fittest.

Are you doing any or a lot of race 70.3 specific, you know, 3 by 33 by 40 minute efforts where you're running at your race potential best race pace for your 70.3. Are you doing any of that type of work close to the event?

Yeah, I do actually quite a bit of that kind of work. I like to do, for instance.

I.

Like to do the build run. They're probably my favorite session. They give me a lot of confidence. So I might do 20 minutes of Ironman perceived effort, 20 minutes at my 70.3 race pace and then 20 minutes under that just because for me when I can go under that it makes the 70.3 effort feel a lot more comfortable. Um, so. And that's A great confidence boost, that kind of session as well. If I can comfortably sit in my 70.3 race pace as the middle interval, then for me, that, you know, gives me a lot of confidence. But yeah, we might do. What else do we do? We might do say 10 minutes at 70.3 effort, maybe four or five times and then, you know, some under, under 70.3 effort as well in between just to give me that little bit of speed as well. I find for me that if I run beyond my 70.3 effort and then settle in, that's where I'm, you know, most comfortable.

There's some really good running. Examples of preparation and your. One of your strengths is your, your great ability to run well off the bike. And that's. We can see why now the work you're doing. Tell us a little bit about. You wanted to improve your bike and be, be a better bike rider.

Are you.

Are you doing similar sessions that are replicating similar stuff that you're doing as a runner?

Yeah, I would say pretty similar. We do a lot of. We do longer intervals on the bike. I might do 3 by 30 minutes, building every 10, or I might do 30 by 1 minutes. Things like that. Yeah, things that get me out of my comfort zone, but then make my race taste feel comfortable or make. Every time I do a session. The aim for me is to make my race pace be as comfortable as possible, basically. So obviously as I get fitter, that becomes, you know, easier. Um, and my race pace then gets a little faster and faster every time, hopefully. Um, but yeah, the aim of that, yeah, the aim of our sessions like that are basically to be comfortably uncomfortable at my 70.3 races pace.

Are you an athlete that trains to more to heart rate or to power? Nothing, actually, I, I knew this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew this.

I think I'm the only professional triathlete in the world that doesn't use any data. I use entirely perceived effort. So I've always trained like that and that's the way Siri and I have decided works best for me. So.

So that's intriguing. Let's just, let's just go back to your world Championship day. Were you racing the race against the other athletes or were you trying to go by your perceived effort? What was happening in. Let's just take the bike. Obviously, the swims of. Swim wherever you come out and then, then you're in a position whether you're with the pack or just off the pack or in front of the pack. How did you race that on the bike?

Yeah, I think the thing for me, because I don't use any data, I don't have any idea of, I guess, how many, like, the power that I'm putting out. So for me, I just react to what's happening around me and just race the race around me. I know what it feels like to hurt, and some days it hurts much more than other days. Um, so I know that I have to get myself to the front of the race, whatever it takes. So, basically, at World Championships, when I came out further down out of the swim than I'm used to, I came out with Daniella, luckily. So I was able to get on her wheel and I had to ride with her. I had no choice. She was my ticket to the front of the race. And then when Daniella dropped me, it was a case of, okay, well, now how do I get to the front of the race, the race? I have to react to this now. And this is the new situation around me. Who. Who can I ride with or what can I do? Is there a point that I could potentially put in a surge or an effort to get myself up to the front of the race? Um, so, yeah, I think for me, I like being able to react, and I like not having a number in front of me that controls what I'm doing or how I'm racing. And I find that I work best like that. Siri always describes me as a racer because I really do like reacting to what's happening around me.

I've heard her describe you like that, and that's. You can't argue. You have won a lot of races. You got to ask a question, Dad.

I was just going to say, was there a time, were you clear on how far behind you were? Were you getting updates which could cause anxiety, cause you to ride too hard, too soon? And because you're not looking at data, you could be overcooking yourself. And. And were you relaxed enough to think that you could chase them down on the run with your strength? These are questions I would be asking myself. You know, they. The things are running through your head. Could you tell how far behind you were?

Yeah, I think, to be honest, the thing that really frazzled me was when I came out of the water so far down. And I think maybe that was my undoing. I think I panicked when I came out of the water, well, behind the girls that I usually swim with. Um, so that may be my. The demise of my World Champs race there. Um, but yes, I. I knew that Lucy was up the road. I knew that Taylor was up the road as well. Um, and I actually did. I was able to ride up to the main group with Daniela, Lucy and Taylor up the road? Well, up the road, yeah.

Yeah, they were.

But yeah, I was actually able to catch the chase group and then ride those girls into a position where some of them were able to run up into second and fourth and so on. But, yeah, I unfortunately knew that I was having bit of a shocker that day. Um, so I don't think there was any relying on my run legs. Um, yeah, I think from the swim it was all a bit of a downhill slide for me.

Could you tell during the swim that you were getting dropped and, and not hanging on, or was it a little.

Bit of a blur?

Um, did you realize when you, you know, halfway around that, you know, I'm not in the position I need to be here? Is that what was happening?

Yeah. To be honest, I knew I had a pretty bad start. I probably picked the wrong side to start on and unfortunately I could see a group of girls forming off to the left and I was kind of stuck in a group on the right. I could see them up ahead getting away from me, but I wasn't really aware how many there were. I obviously knew Lucy would be off pretty quickly, but I didn't realize there were so many others as well. So I guess I didn't realize who was there and how many until I came into transition. And I obviously was getting updates from people outside of transition and things like that I could see as they were leaving as I was entering. So I think, yeah, there was definitely a lot of panic in that situation. And yeah, I probably could have kept a bit more of a level head. And yeah, I think when situations that are unexpected arise like that, then that's when the mental game really comes into play.

Sorry to put you through the agony of reasoning that the trauma, and we didn't intentionally do that, but it is such a great answer that you have been able to accept that what happened and now you can do something about it. If you don't actually accept that this is what I possibly did, then you're going to make the same mistake again. And it's great for the everyday age grouper to understand that even the best of the best have roadblocks in front of them and they have to work out and manage a way to get to the front of the race. And that was your sole purpose. And. And you know, it's really good that you can be so open and we really appreciate you doing that, even though it's Very uncomfortable to talk about stuff that, you know, it's more fun talking about the races you did win. But. But you do learn a lot, don't you, about what you can do better next time, given the same situation. And, and really, that's probably your focus now this time, isn't it, to make sure that doesn't ever happen again and you're in a better situation so you can handle it differently.

Yeah, exactly. Right. I think what you learn from situations like that is how you don't ever want to feel again. So if I can avoid feeling like that again by doing everything in my power to get it right, then, yeah, I think that's when I can take from that experience.

So this is a bit of a longer question, but I want to start talking about your coach, Siri Lindley. And for those who don't know, she was a gun athlete and triathlete herself. And she also comes from a big personal development background. For those who know Tony Robbins, she works still with him. I think she's definitely worked with him in the past, which is all about mindset, and she's very big in that area. And I've heard her on a podcast talk about her. Her shifts in mindset throughout her athletic career. And she tells a story about how she went on a camp with Australia's Chris Sutton. Um, and it was a really grueling camp, and it. But it changed her belief about what was possible because she was pushed beyond her limits. Um, and I. If you follow her on Instagram, she posts a lot of your. Your training sessions when she's putting you in the Pan Cave. Um, and last year, in the lead up to Worlds, she was posting some of your sessions, and it just looked absolutely brutal. And I, I couldn't believe what I was kind of reading or posting. And you were just dominating the sessions. As you said, you went into the World Champs feeling in flying form. Can you explain the impact that Siri has had on you from that mindset perspective? And how was that whole training block last. Last year? I know that's probably normal for you. How did you go through those. Those periods? Is she trying to test you mentally and put you through abnormal pain to get you mentally stronger? What's the approach there? If you could give us an insight into. Into the coaching of Siri Lindley and yourself?

Yeah, I think I'm really lucky to have Siri because, I mean, at the top level, all the athletes are pretty well, doing the same training, spending the same amount of hours out there doing very similar sessions. So I think to have someone like Siri who knows so much about the psychology behind the sport, who's been where I would like to be twice, and who knows exactly what I'm going through, it's really motivating and special to have an athlete who understands me on that level. She's not only my biggest fan, my biggest cheerleader as well, but we get on so well, and she knows exactly how to get the best out of me, which I think is so important with a coach, athlete relationship. Yeah, Siri does lot of work with me on the mental side of things, and I think our approach. We've sat down many times and spoken about this, and the approach behind our training is to make training harder than any race could ever be. Because then you'll get out there on the race course and whatever that race throws at you, you're prepared for it. You've done this before. The race should be the celebration. The training should be where the hard work happens. There's no expectation in training. And really, if something goes wrong, who cares? You do the session again tomorrow or next week. I mean, you're supposed to push yourself beyond what you think is possible in training, because you'll never know what's possible if you don't. So I think that's what Siri is trying to do with all of my sessions, particularly in the lead up to the big championship races, because she wants to prepare me for whatever might happen out on that race course. And then I know mentally and physically that I'm ready for, you know, any situation and I can react accordingly.

It's really. That's really amazing. I mean, what's. What kind of stuff specifically? Is she going with you, through with you mentally? Is there any kind of. It's such an unknown field, you know, mindset training and mental tactics, and she has such experience in that. So apart from, you know, that's a massive thing, pushing yourself harder in training than you go into experience and race day, that could give you a massive mental edge. Um, what kind of other things are you guys doing together, if you can reveal that?

Yeah, I mean, at the start of every year, we do a big reflection on the previous year. So not long ago, we've just done a reflection on last year, and basically we go through together and we decide 10 things that I did great. 10 things that I can do better. My big goals for this year, my small goals for this year year. What I like about myself as an athlete, what I like about myself as a person, and what I want to change in both of those areas as well. Because Siri is a big believer in looking at the whole athlete as both an athlete and a person. Because she believes that having all those things aligned will make you the most successful person and the most successful athlete you can be. So it's about taking care of, of the well rounded athlete. So I think that really helps me and it also helps to put things into perspective as well that triathlon, although it feels like sometimes it's my whole life, I do have things outside of triathlon that are important to me and it really just puts things basically into perspective and it makes each task at hand feel maybe a little bit smaller when it comes to when I face that, for instance. But I think also looking back on past experiences really helped me learn for the future as well. It helps me set new goals, it helps me reassess my thought process leading into training, into racing. And it really helps me know that when I wake up every day why I'm doing this and you know why I'm putting my all into each session, because I have a big goal at hand and I know why I'm doing this.

That's a fantastic answer. You've been doing this, as you said, for 18 years. Have you noticed that you've changed? And when you talk about having a balance, which we absolutely love and we push that theme to our age group, is that you've got your job, you've got your family and you've got your passion, which is triathlon. And if one of those things isn't working, the whole thing will fail. So have you noticed anything you've done differently? Have you changed your approach in all those years from when you were an eager young girl to now a very experienced professional? Have you seen yourself develop in different ways and change through that journey?

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me over the years is that I've really learned what I want and I'm not afraid to go and get it. I think a younger version of myself had too many outside influences trying to pull me in all directions and I really didn't have my priorities lined up to my big goal. So that's the thing I've really learned is that I have this huge, lofty goal, but everything else needs to be directed towards that goal. And the people that I surround myself with, the things that I do on a daily basis, need to align with that big goal as well. So I think it's important that the people around me know what my goals are and what I'm trying to achieve. Because the ones who really care about you. And the ones that want you to succeed will get on board with that, and the ones that who don't, won't. So I think it really helps you, I guess, keep your circle small but strong, and all those in that circle are on board with the big goal and will help you in any way possible to get there. Yeah, I guess for me, I've got rid of outside influences that may or may not be conducive with, you know, becoming a world champion.

I think it's been my favorite part of the podcast so far is how unapologetic you are about your goal in being world champion. It's. It takes guts and bravery to put it out to the world. I mean, you could keep it to yourself, but that's clearly what you want. And it's super inspiring for anyone to say no. This is, this is my goal and this is what I'm going for. I'm really interested in, in kind of your support team and support network because you're the one doing the training, you're the one doing the hard work. Siri is your biggest cheerleader and biggest supporter. Who else is in your support team and what kind of roles they. Have you mentioned the exercise physiologist? Who else have you got?

Yeah, I have an exercise physiologist, a dietitian, obviously Siri, my family, my boyfriend. I have a social media content creator to help with take the load off all that side of things. Obviously, I have my incredible sponsors. They're huge part of my team and obviously I couldn't do this professionally without them. Yeah, that's pretty much my circle. I have a great circle of friends as well, who I don't get to see as much as I would like, obviously because of, you know, we have very different lifestyles, but I have a good triathlon crew as well, who train with me when. When they can, and I get to socialize with them on. On that level. But, yeah, I try to keep my circle quite small, but yeah, have all the right pieces to the puzzle.

I was about to say. So you said earlier that a lot of the triathletes at that level are doing very similar sessions. And is there something that you think you do differently, better that that could get you to the destination that you want to is if everybody's doing the same thing, nothing's going to change. Do you think you need to do something different? Are you watching what the previous world champions have been doing in their training and picking the eyes out of that and trying to implement some of that into your program or are you just happy with the focus that you and Siri have got and determined to follow it through that way? I'm intrigued because obviously you get influenced by the success of others. So you want to know the first question is, what are they doing that got them to beat me by five minutes or two minutes or whatever. Is that a discussion you have a lot?

Yeah, I mean, I try not to look really too closely at what others are doing because everyone's on a different journey, they're on their own journey and everyone's different. So I think for me, it's really about trusting the process, trusting theory, just knowing that I'm on the right path to my success and everything kind of happens when it's time. But, yeah, I mean, there are definitely things that I work on based on what other people are doing. I mean, I look at someone's race strategy and I can, you know, kind of know where they might, you know, make a move or what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are, where I could potentially make my move if it came down to it. But for me, yeah, it's about working with Siri on what we need to do right now rather than worrying about what other people are doing. And I think that's the biggest thing for me is just focusing on focusing solely on myself and what we're doing to get me to be that world champion. But I think the mental side of things is really where you can get the edge over other people. And as I said, I feel like we are all doing very similar things at the top end of the sport. But if you can have that mental edge over the competition, then I think you've really got that extra advantage.

Yeah, it's an interesting one. And when you've got two athletes of the same ability tussling it out, it really comes down to who wants it more, doesn't it? And something you said right at the start of the podcast, you pride yourself in being a racer and you would love that challenge. When it came to a head to head or a pack of three or four girls or anybody's got an opportunity to win this, you would relish that situation. And do you then have to have a really good, intricate understanding of the competition you're against? And do you study their strengths and weaknesses or do you just go, I'll back myself no matter what they've got and this is what I'm going to do? How are you approaching a situation like it could be the last 5k or the middle of the ride and you're trying to get rid of some people who, you know, are better runners or et cetera.

Yeah.

What, what are you. What are your processes you're going through to come to that conclusion?

Yeah, I think it's about. Well, in that situation, it's all about just backing myself. I mean, you're only as good as you are on that day. So I feel like past experiences can't influence what's going to happen on that day. So I can't be worried about who may or may not be a better runner than me because I have no idea how they're feeling on that day. So for me, I'm always going to back myself in every single situation, regardless of whether I'm the underdog, the favorite or somewhere in between. But I think if I can back myself and trust that, you know, I've done the work and that's the outcomes, really, it's just going to take care of itself.

That's. Yeah, that's really inspiring and a true Aussie spirit, I'd say. I think, you know, when you're in those situations, you've got the backing of the whole Australian triathlon community behind you, so hopefully when you're racing, that helps somewhat. You touched on in your team you have a dietitian, and that is one area that could differ for a lot of athletes. And we've gotten to speak to a lot of athletes and a lot of coaches and we've been surprised at the varying levels of nutrition strategies. So what's your strategy with your diet and your nutrition with the dietitian?

Yeah, this is actually a relatively new concept for me. I've just started working with a company called Pillar, who are a micronutrient company. As part of that, I've been working with a dietitian. So basically, I have quite a good understanding of nutrition and dietetics because I'm studying that currently at uni. But I think my approach is not about limitation in any way, which I feel like a lot of female, especially professional athletes tend to lean more towards the limitation of food rather than fueling your needs. So my big focus is about taking on clean, clean foods. But I need sufficient amount to fuel my training and racing loads. So that's basically my theory behind it. I eat very, very cleanly. I try and eat organic where I can, but, yeah, I definitely, I don't eat to excess, but I definitely don't limit anything and I do also let myself have the occasional treat here and there. I don't want to restrict anything in my diet. If I'm craving something like that, then I'm going to let myself have it.

Which when you're burning thousands of calories per day, I don't know what you burn, 3000, 4000, 5000 maybe even at your body weight, you know you'd be burning thousands. You can afford to, to have something. Are you counting your macronutrients and macronutrients?

No, I don't count anything away, anything like that. I really just try and eat enough to feel what I'm doing. I feel like I'm always hungry, so I feel like I'm always eating. So if I can eat good, healthy, nutritious food, then I feel like my body is going to thank me for that in the long run and hopefully that will keep me healthy and injury free. Free as well.

And then.

You happy? Sorry, Are you happy with your race nutrition and experimenting over the years? Have you changed anything there? Have you found that some things work better than others for you and that you tried something and it was like a disaster and now I need to stay away from that. Yeah. Just give us, the listeners, an insight as to how you've come up with your race nutrition.

Yeah, there's been a lot of trial and error for my race nutrition actually, because I came from the ITU background. So the shortest stuff where I really didn't need to consume anything during a race. So having to, I guess eat and drink whilst racing is kind of a new concept to me. So for me initially I really struggled taking in gels because of the texture, so I couldn't actually swallow them. When I first started racing the half distance, that was a hurdle that I had came up against. So luckily I came across the Gatorade endurance gels, which are really, really thin. They're almost like water for me, so I can actually dilute them into water and that's how I mostly take all of my nutrition on the ride. In a race, I just dilute my gels into the electrolyte mix and then water and pretty much just sip on everything like that. I also now can take normal gels like a normal person, so I take a couple of days as well, but primarily diluted into the water just so I don't have to worry about tearing the top off or, you know, rubbish or anything like that.

And what about on the run? What are you. How much fluid are you taking in and how many gels are you trying to get in?

On the run, I take two gels, one caffeinated and one non caffeinated. I'm not Exactly. Sure about how much fluid I try and grab from every aid station. Water, electrolyte, and then every second one I alternate the electrolyte with cola. The biggest thing I've learned is that when you start taking caffeine, you can't stop taking caffeine otherwise you experience that lull. It's like the 3pm Munchies for someone with an office job. So I think for me, I start taking caffeine essentially 30 minutes before the race. So I need to take something that's caffeinated within every 30 minutes just to avoid experiencing that real low. So yeah, I sip on cola on the run, on the bike. I take six gels, three caffeinated, three non caffeinated. Four of those gels are diluted into an electrolyte sachet. I take the Gatorade Endurance because it's full of sodium as well, so I don't have to worry about taking any additional salt tablets or anything. So I put two servings of the electrolyte, mix four gels and mix that into my bottle. Take two additional gels and then a whole bottle of water and I'll finish everything.

And so you're not, sorry, you're only taking one gel, the actual gel. The rest is kind of mixed in.

One of your two actual gels and then four diluted in there. Yeah, on the bike.

And the, and the gels that you have to take that are caffeinated, how's the texture of them? Are you good with them or.

Yeah, I mean they're the same. They're really, really runny. They're basically like water. So there's no problem. But yeah, it's just basically to avoid having that lull in caffeine. I just have to keep it up. So I take another caffeinated gel 30 minutes before race start as well.

So race morning. What's, what's your race strategy? And again, a lot of athletes vary on this. So what are you having, when are you waking up and what are you having all the way to, to that 30 minute caffeinated, caffeinated gel?

Uh, the race wake up is kind of dependent on the race location from where you're staying and what transition opening times. So I like to get down to the race about 75 minutes before start time to start setting up and everything. Transition. So I'll try and get up. Depending on how long it's going to take me to get to the transition area, I usually get up an hour before I like to be there. So that usually ends up being eating around Two hours before race start. So first thing I'll do is have coffee and two pieces of white bread with butter, Nutella and a banana chopped up on top. And that's pretty much my race morning. I also just sip on the Gatorade endurance like just throughout the morning before race start and water as well. And then, yeah, 30 minutes before I take the caffeinated gel and let's.

It's something that the listeners need to understand that that's what works for you. And I don't want anybody to start copying that because it might not work for the listener.

So I'll copy and try it and see what happens.

That's right. You've honed this in after decades of actually racing. So for the listeners out there, you need to actually find out what works for you before you just plainly copy what what you've so graciously told the viewers. So thank you for that. But. But I've got to put that word of warning out to everybody. You know, this is something that works specifically for you.

Yeah, everyone's really different. That's actually not very much fuel for most people. Two pieces of toast. But for me it's got carbs, fat and sugar, so I think it's pretty well rounded. The white bread is also easier to digest than say brown bread or sourdough, so that's why I go with that. I don't normally eat white bread every day, but it's an exception on race day. The Nutella I find quite filling. It's full of fat, basically. Fat and sugar. So it keeps you fueled? It keeps me full. And then I've got the fats from the butter as well. Caffeine from the coffee. Um, so yeah, and that's pretty much coffee is my daily routine. So I don't want to avoid that because I don't want to change too much on race day either. Yep.

So we were delighted to see over summer you moved down to our state and spent some time down at the Peninsula. Is. Was that just a short stay? Was that just a one off thing or you. You're not moving there for good? Brisbane's your home. What's. What's the go there?

Yeah, actually most of my dad's family lived down there in Langarry, Rye kind of area. So it was actually when I was trying to come home from Colorado last year, the Australian border was still closed so we couldn't get back. And then luckily they opened it to New South Wales and Victoria. So that's when Zach and I decided that we'd make a dash for it and at least become a Victoria. Yes, exactly. The country couldn't get back to Queensland, so, yeah, we spent three weeks with my grandpa down there on the peninsula and then once the Queensland border opened, we drove across. So, yeah, it was quite a roundabout way of getting home.

I thought it must be something like that because I thought it's not a destination training location down there. It's all right, but it's not.

Yeah, it was all right, right, for training, but even by the end of the three weeks, we were getting a little bit bored of the coast road and. Yeah, whatever the mountain is.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

So just tell the listeners a little bit about how you spend your year and what percentage of it are you in Colorado and what percentage are you out of that area? And so the altitude training that you are, the benefit you're getting from being in Colorado, just give us an insight into what's happening there.

Yeah, I usually try and spend six months in both countries. I usually go April till September in Colorado and start my US season at the start of April. It gives me a good opportunity to get acclimated to the altitude before my championship season starts. It takes me typically a good four weeks of acclimation training and then I'm able to start my normal training. So when you first get to altitude, basically you have to. You can't really elevate your heart rate for extended periods of time, otherwise you can suffer all sorts of altitude sickness and it takes you a lot longer to acclimate. So for at least the first two weeks, it's just all about super short, sharp intervals with a ton of rest. You can definitely do some longer mileage, but nothing that elevates the heart rate for too long. So that's usually the first four weeks for me. I'll do that and then I'll be able to get into normal training from there. So, yeah, I try and base myself in Boulder, Colorado for those whole six months. Obviously, I do race from there, so I just travel from altitude and then just race and come back. Um, but each time I come back, I'm usually only gone for maybe five or six days. So it doesn't really take any time at all to get acclimated again. Um, but yeah, boulders a great place for training. Um, the altitude really makes a huge difference, especially when you go down to. To sea level to race from there. You just have to be quite specific about when you go into race, because it does make a huge difference based on how you're going to Feel and how you're going to recover as well.

We just had Sam Appleton on the podcast last week and he lives in Boulder as well, which I'm sure you know. Do you run into many other pro athletes and do you end up training with any ever?

You actually can't avoid the pro athletes, Stone. They're like, you bump into them in the aisles and you go everywhere, restaurants. It's like, yeah, you can't avoid them. There are a lot of pros, not just triathletes. There's runners, cyclists, mountain climbers, rock climbers, all those kind of things. Ultra runners. So there are a lot of athletes, which makes it super motivating because you're always surrounded by really like minded people. It means that a lot of the food options are super healthy. So yeah, it's a community that's really ideal for being a professional athlete. I do train sometimes. I do some of my easier training with other pros. Especially like friends might be like, hey, do you want to go for a coffee roll or something? But if I have a more specific session, it's a little bit hard to ask someone to come along. And then you go off and do a bunch of festivals and then, yeah, sometimes it's just a little bit hard to convene a session like that. But for sure, easy rides. If it lines up with someone else, then I'm more than happy to go out with them.

One thing I found interesting watching the Collins cup was, you know, especially the international team. A whole bunch of athletes coming together and you would obviously know everyone on the circuit, but some people you might be closer to than others. It was. And even Team Europe and usa, they would all know each other, but not everyone might be friends. But suddenly you're in this environment where you're hanging out. I mean, how was, how was that kind of spending being really close to other athletes? Do you become close with others, become good friends, or do you. You're all kind of enemies once you get to the start line. So how does that whole situation unfold?

Yeah, I think the Collins cup was a really unique experience because it did bring us all together in one place and we were all staying racing, eating everything together. It was like school camp, which is really cool because we never get that opportunity anywhere else. And it's really nice to see the athletes, as you said, from the other side of the world that you may never or you may see once a year. So I mean, we all have our favorites on the circuit and we all have our friends for sure. So it's really nice to see those people and see them in a setting outside of just the race. So be able to socialize with them, train with them, eat with them. But yeah, I mean it did give us an opportunity to also escape if we needed to. I mean we all had our own private living quarters, so it wasn't like we were in each other's pockets all the time. But it did give us a nice opportunity to spend some time with those we normally wouldn't, especially the team International. I mean, as you said, it brought athletes from all over the world. And like Paula Findlay for nc for instance, is one of my good friends and we're on the same team, but we hardly ever get to see each other. So that was a really nice opportunity to catch up.

One of the last topics I want to touch on and we thank you for staying on so long and you're really generous with your time. Is. And this is something that differs with all athletes again, so we want to know your strategy and that's tapering strategy because different things work for different people. Like still training hard right up until the day before or two days before. Some people take it really cruisy. What's the, what's the type of strategy that works really well for you now?

Yeah, so Tuesday is my last hard session before a Sunday race. Um, so obviously that alters if I have a Friday, Saturday or Saturday race, everything moves back. Um, but the Tuesday before a Sunday race is my last key session. It's always a brick. It's. It's got some five minute intervals on the bike and three minute intervals on the run. Um, basically just below my race pace. So that kind of threshold, ish pace, but not killing myself all out. And that really, really builds my confidence because obviously coming into tape a week, you're feeling really good, you're confident, you're fit and then you go out and do a session like that and you see numbers that sometimes you know you haven't seen in a while. So makes you feel really good. You go into that race with a bunch of confidence. So I love that. I'll swim pretty well. I'll do 3 or 4k swims each day leading up until the day before the race. My running and riding from, from that Tuesday after that, they're usually about the runs about 30 minutes and the rides about an hour in duration with some 1 minute and 30 seconds pickups throughout, but nothing of much substance. It's really about just turning the legs over, keeping the blood flowing and then the little pickup just to you Know, keep the feel of the little of the speed basically. And then the day before the race I do 45 minute ride with some 30 second pickups. I do a 15 minute run with some 30 second pickups and then I'll swim probably 1k to 1500 meters with some fast 25s and some tempo 50s and that's it. And then I rest.

And that's the formula that's got you so many victories and it's really good that you can, you know, put that out there for people just to have a listen and, and again, that's what works for you and it might not work for other people. So the listeners out there try that if you, if you like, but, but make sure that you adjust it to, if you race poorly, it might not be just that. It could be a whole lot of combination of things. It must take so much experimenting to actually say that, right? I'm sticking with this because this is the one thing that I know enabled me to be so successful.

Yeah, I think it's all about trial and error and so many things about triathlon are really personalized, particularly around the race day. For instance, nutrition taper, the type of bike, whether you want to use data, what type of data, everything's very, very personal. This is just basically what works for me. But as I said, I've been racing 18 years and I know my body so well and I know the feeling of what things are meant to feel like and how I want them to feel. So yeah, I mean I've tried a lot of different things and even with my taper now, depending on the race and how important it is to me, then I might alter my taper to add a bit more volume in that week. If I'm not tapering for a race, if I'm just racing through it, I might add some extra, you know, mileage on the bike or a little extra run just to keep things rolling along. But yeah, I mean, Siri and I have really played around with my taper and found that that is the best for me and that's really what has me on that Sunday working at my best. So yeah, lots of trial and error.

My second last question. We are very on the pro, pro power side at Tribalo coaching. We just love that and we would love to know from you what would it take for you to convert to power side because this is something that you love. You've found what works for you. And again, 17.70.3 championship. You can't argue with the facts, but yeah, what would it take you to convert.

Yeah, I mean, I think every athlete is really, really different. And there's definitely a time and place for the data. I see that. I see that a lot of athletes, it works great for. I tried it for a week and I just got in my own head. I couldn't stand staring at a number and it limited me. And then I. It was just, just. I was all over the shop. So I think because I have such a long history in the sport and I have been in the sport for so long and I really, really do know my body so incredibly well, that that's just what works for me. And I don't think I could be persuaded to change things at this point in my career. I mean, who knows, you know, maybe coming to me this time next year.

That's fantastic. I love, I love that answer.

And at this point, that's what I'm sticking to. But I can definitely see a time and place for it. Especially, you know, for an age group athlete who doesn't have, you know, all the time in the day to train. They have other priorities. They have work, for instance, family. They need something to keep them, you know, accountable or keep them kind of on track. I feel like that's a great tool and that's a great resource. But for me, I mean, I'm so in tune with my body, I feel like for me it just works. I'll let you in on a little secret. Sometimes my boyfriend, he connects his head unit to my power. And we were doing a session probably eight weeks ago and I always share this, like this argument with him that I don't need. I don't need power. You know, I know my body so well when he doesn't fully believe me until now. So he connected his power, his head unit and we were doing a session, 3 by 10 minutes. It was 10 minute at Ironman perceived effort, 10 minute at 70.3 perceived effort and 10 minute, as hard as you can. And then we did that twice through and I had all my intervals from one set to the next set all within a 1 watt spread of each other.

There you go. Yeah, yeah. I'm really glad you said that. That's a great example. I wondered if Siri would sit in the car or something with the power meter checking. That's phenomenal that you said that.

Until that point, I had never had any, you know, concrete data that I knew. I just knew in myself that, you know, this is what it feels like at this effort and this is what it feels like. So, yeah, amazing.

Well, if I Put my coach's hat on and that elusive World Championship. And I could say to you, if you work to power in your training sessions, don't do it in the, in the race, but train differently. And that would guarantee you a World Championship.

Would.

Would you think twice about that?

You know, at this stage? No. But, you know, I never say never. Yeah, never say never. But at this stage, like Siri and I, that we, we think that's the best way to do it at this point and at this point in my career. So that's what I'm sticking to for now.

I'm glad you. I'm glad you shared that secret with us. That's because that's. That's your evidence. So that's your evidence. Procedure. Final question from us. What is a. We ask this to every guest. What is a life lesson that you've learned in the last 12 months or so that you'd like to pass on to others, apart from the lessons you learned from the, from the World Champs?

I think, particularly for age groupers, but for myself as well, it's all about enjoying the journey and finding the reason why you started and just remembering that every day. I think especially last year, going into the World Championship, I forgot why I started and I forgot why I love this sport and why I do it. And I think maybe that was one of my biggest downfalls. So I think coming back to why you started and why you get up every day to go train and why you sacrifice so much for this sport, I think finding that and remembering that and writing it down and reminding yourself daily is really, really important and one of the biggest things that I've changed. So hopefully that correlates to my race performances as well. But, yeah, I think it's important to know why you're doing everything and to question why you're doing things, to ask questions and. Yeah, go after what you want and just take them.

Amazing answer. We'll finish there. Thank you so much for joining us. We can't wait to see how you go this season. We can't wait to watch you at the World Champs and. Yeah, exactly. Right. Fingers crossed for you. We'll all be supporting you. Our whole audience will be supporting you. And that's not. That's not external pressure. That's. We know you do it for yourself, but thank you so much for joining us, Ellie.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been fun.

Cheers, everyone, for listening and we'll see you next episode.