Australia's Top Ranked Triathlete Natalie Van Coevorden

This episode of the Get Fast podcast is brought to you by Trivalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. You are joined as always, by your hosts, former Australian Ironman champion Gerard Donnelly. And I am Jordan Donnelly. On today's episode, we are joined by Natalie Van Kovorden, a current Australian professional triathlete, one of Australia's top triathletes in the world at the moment. Natalie was born in New South Wales, Australia, comes from a swinging background and has now competed at Seattle 7 World Championships for Australia. From the junior to elite level, she trains and competes both domestically and internationally, mostly on the wts, the World Triathlon Series circuit where she has finished as high as 11th in the world rankings. She got her first World cup podium in 2013 and her first WTS podium in the 2018 season where she was third place at WTS Abu Dhabi. She was also part of the Mixed Relay World Championships team that placed second in Hamburg and first in the Edmonton WTS Series relay in 2018. Her most recent goals have been to qualify for Tokyo Olympics, which, as you'll find out in the episode, it was interesting to hear how that goal played out in 2020 and her plans for Tokyo 2021. She's currently joining us from Croatia in Europe, which made for a decent interview in terms of connection. We had a couple of interruptions, but most of the interview should be fine, audio wise to hear. But we had a great chat to her about her professional career so far and we got some great insights into her professionalism and things that really make her the athlete that she is today. So, dad, what did you take from this?

Yeah, it was a fantastic interview and we had a couple of little glitches because we're talking to someone who's in Croatia. But what she had to say, it was really reinforcing to our everyday triathletes who are, you know, trying to do their best and she's leaving no stone unturned. Her preparation, her planning is exemplary and it was a really good example of how you go about, you know, covering all bases with nutrition, with psychology, with strength and conditioning, with recovery, with rest, with sleep. It was the full total package that really impressed me and I'm so excited to see how she goes next year with the Olympics and hopefully she gets selected. And at the end of the day it's going to be someone who really deserves it. And not that anybody else doesn't, but yeah, it was an impressive, really.

Really.

Powerful young female triathlete from Australia who's really doing well in the world stage.

So without further ado, here is professional triathlete Natalie Van Koe Vorden. Okay, Natalie, thank you for joining us on the podcast. Welcome. And we're very glad to have you on.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

We'll get straight into it. As a professional athlete, how has 2020 been for you? It's been a wild year for everyone. How's it been for you?

I think, actually think I've been a bit different to a lot of people. I had the opportunity to come to Europe in July, so. So I've done some IT races this year and rejoined the circuit. A few good ones and a few bad ones. I think that's quite normal and everyone's sort of seasoned. And I also joined a new coach this year, so it was a really good chance for me to learn with him and experience how we can develop leading into the new Olympic year. Yeah, I raced the World Championship. That was in Hamburg, uh, which was a really good opportunity for me in a really stacked field for 20 in for 2020. Um, and yeah, I race all the way to November and I think maybe I would have been one of the only people that actually raced pretty much every single race that was available in Europe.

Fantastic. And the, the reason for you to stay in Europe when it's obviously the Australian summer is here now and you know, the conditions will be a little bit harder to race and train in Europe when it gets colder in win. What's your thought process there?

It's a mixture of a choice and not really a choice. I knew when I left Australia in July it wasn't really going to be that easy to come back anytime this year. So I really kind of had to make a pretty bold decision that I could be here for a long time or a short time. And now I'm kind of here for the long run. I have a French residency permit which allows me to stay in Europe longer than the three months, which I'm really lucky to have. And yeah, I mean, like I said, I really, I miss Australia. It's my home and the warm weather is something that I really love. But I think that we can still do the training here. And I'm currently in Croatia, which is one of the warmer parts of Europe this time of year. And we're lucky that we still have really great access to facilities and if I can train and yeah, I have the access that I need, then that's enough for me. And my squad is also European based. That's a big, a big Call for me too to stay here.

Fantastic. And yeah, look, it is one of those unique years, isn't it, where you have to make big decisions and live with the consequences, whether it's good, bad or indifferent. And that brings me to how did as a young girl growing up? You're obviously a really talented swimmer. Is that, is that something that you were spending most of your early days as an athlete doing?

I mean, ever since I was a baby, I think I was in the water, which I'm again really, really grateful for. I grew up squad swimming, so I was swimming between the age of 12 and the age of about 17 or 18, then nine or 10 times a week. So every morning before school I was in the water and even saying that like I did grow up swimming, but the past few years my swimming I wish was even better. The girls are so fast, so I'm grateful to have that background. But I'm now still in the water for 20-25km a week trying to make that front group. So yeah, they never finishes the process to get better.

It's incredible, isn't it? The standard of swimming around the world is phenomenal. And in those events it is really crucial as compared to the endurance events. It's so important to be with the front pace, isn't it?

Yeah, it's really. People say you can't, like you can't win the race from the swim, but you can definitely lose. And I think it's, it's so true. The past few years we've seen that more and more and I think especially in the female racing, there's always eight or ten females up the road now because that just that little bit quicker than everyone else. So that's really been my aim this year with my new coach, to really be consistent and I think I really, I really showed that this year in my racing that my swimming has been consistent. So that's a really great improvement for me leading into next year.

And you know, swimming is a big part of your youth. Were you, were you interested in running and riding or did that come later? Tell us about how you've developed into a triathlete.

Yeah, I mean as a swimmer we actually did like 2 times a week we just run 5k as fast we could around the local swimming pool block, I suppose. And I was probably like the one of three people that loved to just run and everyone else used to just walk. So it's kind of funny because, I mean somebody's don't really like to be on land. Right. So yeah, everyone I Actually kind of started winning cross country during my high school years and I won New South Wales State cross country in 2008, which was a massive shock for me. I literally, like I said, I ran 10k a week just as fast as I could. And then, yeah, I went to a few national sort of championships and people kind of mentioned triathlon to me, but I never really knew about it. It wasn't very prominent in school for me. I think it's a bit more prominent now. And yeah, I competed in my first triathlon just for fun, I suppose, in 2008, 2009, sorry, at all schools championships through the school system and I swam really well, rode on an aluminium frame bike and I think maybe I came eighth or something. But yeah, I loved it from that moment on. And yeah, really, it really gave me the passion for the future.

You pretty quickly found yourself on the world circuit if your first triathlon was in 2009. We were speaking off air about how 2018 was such a good year for you. You came 11th on the ITU circuit and you, your best place was third in one of the races in Abu Dhabi. So take us through some of your career highlights since being on the world circuit and Even including that 2018 and how that was a highlight for you.

Yeah, I think for starting my career I made World Championships, just my junior World championships, three months after starting the ITU sort of circuit as the junior, which was a bit of a shock. Didn't think I was that good. So, yeah, that was really the start for me. And then, yeah, definitely. I've been in a few World Championship mixed relays now, which is a really a magical opportunity to do because you only get that there's only four people that can be chosen. And if you do get chosen, you really have to grab the opportunity with both hands. 2018, I have to say, was one of my best years. Yeah, with the podium Abu Dhabi, it's pretty special to be on a WTS podium and especially in a race like that, I proved to myself I have good skills and I could really perform at a high level. And yeah, and also that year we came second as a team, which was a great opportunity leading into like the new Olympic cycle. So, yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster, but yeah, it's really great to be starting progress in the higher ranks as an elite.

You go, Gerald, I was just going to ask that. So 11th was the highest in 2018 and you want to obviously keep progressing on that. And then 2020 has been interrupted. Is your Next goal to crack that top 10 and keep climbing up.

Yeah, for sure. I think every wts now I look at it, that I really need to be at a top 10. That's my level that I really want to hit and what I aim to be. So I think that was kind of my reasoning behind joining a new group. My group is surrounded by girls that are really in that top level, the top 10, like consistently. So if I can train with them on a daily basis, that's like the aim where I want to be with them on race day as well as in training. So, yeah, I hope in next year we can have a more consistent circuit and I can be. Yeah, in that top 10.

And the Olympics obviously were postponed this year and. And hopefully they'll be in place next year. Was that disappointing for you in your preparation and how have you handled having to defer that to a whole new season? Is that something that's been difficult?

Yeah, I mean, we started 2020 with the processes of really focusing on the Olympics with heat Prep. Even in 2019, it was all Olympic focus with planning and what we could do to be best prepared with those conditions, especially after seeing it at the Tokyo test event. And then I suppose it all came crashing down really fast. Within March, I suppose we raced the last race in Mooloolaba. I'd just come home from Europe, actually, because Australia was the only racing that was happening at that time. And then I think two weeks later the Olympics was cancelled. So, yeah, for me, I think this is a first chance that I've kind of thought, oh, I actually could go to the Olympics. I have a good opportunity to do so. So it is quite disappointing and. But I really hope that in the new year we have the Olympics that will happen. Maybe it'll be a little bit different to what we're all planning my first time to be like. But the opportunity to race Olympics is, like I said, like once in a lifetime. So, yeah, this is just like refocusing, just having this year as a really steady sort of base. We haven't done that much hard work. It's just been consistent 52 weeks of work now. So now we'll prep as if the Olympics is going to happen and really go from there.

I want to touch on that in a second because that. I know you'll be very interested to hear how the kind of base training has worked without racing, but can you just clarify for us your goal for the Olympics? Are you aiming to qualify individually and is there a team event in the Olympics or is it Just one or the other.

Yeah, they will pick you regardless of the both events. So it would be a team that they think can race the individual well and also race the mix really well. So. And if we only have the two spots, which what we only currently do for both male and females, we can have another athlete led just in case someone gets sick or injured during the actual race. So, yeah, it's hard. We don't really know and not to.

Put pressure on you, but I think you are the number one ranked female in Oceania at the moment. So is that, do you feel that confidence or pressure for that one of two spots?

I mean, I think I've done everything I can. I've put myself in relay opportunities over the past few years and showing that I can be a relay athlete and also mixed, really individual athlete. Sorry. So, yeah, this year I think I really had to prove that my swim is consistent and I can swim without front girls because the first leg of the relay is so important to be in the mix because you really can be out of the mix straight away if you miss the front leg. So for me, yeah, I just really wanted to prove throughout the last couple of years that I can be the both types of athletes. So hopefully I've shown that to the selectors.

And for those who don't know, can you explain the. How the mixed relay works? Because it's quite unique, it's kind of bit different in terms of its distances and it goes male, female, male, female. And, and the race itself is very different. It's really compact and really competitive positioning.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to explain. We, we always tend to race a race before, so you're trying to recover as well as you can to race the next day just as well. And I think personally that being a first female, you have a lot of pressure because the race is kind of on, on you. And it's very different between the first and the third leg as a female, because the third leg, sometimes you're playing catch up or third leg, you're just trying to stay in the race to help the last man. So, yeah, it's a 300 meter swim, normally an 8K bike and a 1.6 kilometer run. So yeah, it's fast, it's furious, it's 22, 23 minutes of action and I really, it's so hard, but I really love being a part of it. And now that technology is coming into play, I think the Olympics will show a variety of things from team tactics to the equipment that we can have to develop the mixed relay to be a really good Olympic event.

That's amazing. No, I really like that. I think it's so exciting and I just find the distance is so funny. You know, the 300 swim, the 1.6, it's obviously a mile, but it's just not something you see in terms of a sprint or an Olympic. So run us through kind of the last this year of training. You mentioned that it's been a lot of base training. Obviously you went without a race for a long time and you chose to come to Europe to be able to race again and train with your squad. We want to know what kind of training you were doing over this period. We had our athletes doing a lot of base training and just making sure that they were prepared for when races did come back up. They could step up to that. But what was your coach getting you to do and what was your squad really focused on?

Yeah, I think as soon as we knew that racing wasn't going to happen, we really kind of shut it down on like the high intensity sort of work because there was no real point like physically and mentally trying to train for that when we didn't know what was happening in the next few months. So yeah, definitely swim wise I was really, really lucky that I could go to the ocean and keep swimming. I know a lot of people couldn't. So yeah, we just kept ticking away the four or five kilometers a day, four times, five times a week just to keep the arms, the arms sort of moving a little bit of, a little bit of speed but nothing really like normal the run. I am a tempo specialist now. I think I could run tempo all day. We did so much this year of just steady, like just getting into a certain pace and just really getting into the flow of, of cadence work and even like technique base work at that sort of pace because it's really easy to build off a tempo and threshold sort of base if it's there for racing. And the bike was quite similar. We just, yeah, the 8 to 10 minute is just kind of grinding it out like just at a really solid sort of tempo pace again on short rest and the, we kind of built into some hard efforts and we knew racing was coming with some short spots, sprints just to build upon the base again. And I, I actually do some, some gym work so I do two high like I suppose lifting sort of sessions a week and then one plyometric session. So yeah, I really, I think gym was a really good thing. Me this year we're not racing because I actually had nearly 52 weeks of consistently being in the gym or the garage gym during COVID So yeah, a really good base I think we've built this year. I actually haven't been much with my squad because with COVID and the restrictions and Covid tests, we kind of chose to be where was most comfortable and where we had access to facilities. So that's why I spent most of my time in Hamburg, not really with my squad until recently, because of just the way the world kind of operated this year in Europe.

That's really fantastic that you've been able to get that consistency into your program in your running and in your strength and conditioning. Do you take much emphasis into your diet and your nutrition? Is that a focus that you're really keen on getting as part of your, as your everyday routine? Is that something that's important?

I think it's the most important thing out of everything. If you don't eat properly, then it doesn't even transfer into your training. When I was probably 10 years ago as a junior, I was 10 kilos lighter than what I was now. I was really, really petite. And I really didn't focus on eating after training and kind of getting the level that I need post, post and pre sort of sessions. Now it's I work with someone that I work with for the past 10 years and we've kind of focused on being like a robust sort of athletes. So if the post training is really the important part, and I work with him a lot on how I can fuel myself for the next session because that's when we're training so much in one day. It's really, really important to get what you need in like straight away and then that will help you for the afternoon and even like the next day. Because I think a lot of people think you have an easy day and you can not eat very much, but our bodies are still ticking away at such a high rate that it's so important to keep fueling at a significant sort of rate. And I don't know if this helps, but we did a test this year and at rest I burn 8,000 over 8,000 kilojoules at rest. So it's such a high amount. Yeah, my metabolism is just ticking away and we've got results from years and years before and just because I've kept eating and kept building my engine, my metabolisms has just taken that and just gone with it. So now that I say the more I eat, the more my metabolism just helps. And yeah, it's really helped me as an athlete wow, that's.

Yeah, that's really, really good that you know that and that you've worked with someone to actually get that part of your entire process correct. I mean, you already said that you've got the strength and conditioning side. You obviously use a dietitian. I want to ask about one partner second. But with that post training food, what kind of things are you consuming and is it. Do you find that you and your squad ate similar things or more individualized to you? What kind of stuff do you actually have?

Um, everyone's really individualized. I mean, I think some people are probably still learning that they need to eat before and after training. I think you can't. It's like a learning process. Like, unfortunately, you learn it the hard way. But yeah, I've kind of. In Australia, I actually always have sustenance. That's like my favorite thing in the world. I can't get it overseas. But chocolate milk, I always have that. I either make some homemade. Homemade muesli bars, like oat bars that I can take to training, or just even a banana. I normally have two things post session, just to get the calories in straight away. Yeah. Pretty simple things you can buy. It's nothing special. It's just helping to get the calories and the protein and stuff in post workout. Even if it's easy or hard, you still need to have something.

Making sure you're doing it is probably the key, is what you're saying.

Yeah, it's definitely a habit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, yeah, like I said, that's the strength and conditioning side, the dietitian side. And then I did read that you have employed previously a psychologist to help you with your goals and performance, especially you look for the year ahead and, you know, what are you trying to achieve? So how important is it? That is that mental side and that mindset side of the, um, your entire kind of approach that you've got a lot of the other things nailed.

Yeah. I think you have to stand on the start line feeling as well prepared as you can, both physically and mentally. Because if you stand there knowing, oh, I'm going to do terribly today, then you've already lost the race before you even dove into the water. So we really worked on day four or week for the race, really knowing the course, what we kind of wanted to achieve it ourself. And they weren't like, how do I say? They're all process outcomes. So everything from. We wrote down from swim, bike, run, and then like an overall sort of general concept of what we wanted to achieve. And he really worked with us to help plan that out and maybe change our mindset. So it wasn't negative connotations. It always changed to positive, which I kind of helped. Especially when you're in a bit of a struggle, you can kind of think back to what you've written down and it really helps you get going.

What's an example of something you write down that's a positive connotation in terms of a process compared to a negative?

I say, like swimming. I don't want to have a slow strike rate. You want to be like, I want to have a high cadence and I want to be sprinting to the first. I want to have such and such to the first can. You don't want to be like, I don't want to do this. You want to always be positive. Otherwise you think about the wrong thing before you think about the right thing.

Definitely. That makes a lot of sense. So what do you think? What do you think is your biggest strengths in terms of your racing and your training? What kind of things do you think make you stand out as an athlete?

I think it sounds really cliche, but I like, kind of. I love my job. It's like something that I really have a big focus on, and my boyfriend knows that training's my first sort of focus. Everything revolves around training, so if something needs to get done, it has to be done. I don't like missing things, so I think that's probably my main personal quality. I'm really just in the focus. Yeah, in the focus when I really need to do. I suppose. Yeah, you have to know, like, you have to stand on the sight line knowing that you have done your best work and you've done everything possible. So I think that's. Yeah, that's kind of where it comes from. I just want to be the best athlete I can. And if I could stand on the sideline knowing that I've done all the work I can, then that's all I can do.

You seem like you've really gone into it in such great depth and really focusing on many setbacks or injuries along the way that. That have really, you know, really pushed you backwards. And how have you handled that?

In 2014, I had a hip arthroscopy. I had an 8 millimeter tear in my hip, and I also had a bone. My bone was like, kind of like. Like a bump instead of, like, being concaved. So I had to have surgery and they shaved down the bone off my femoral head. And then had to repair the tear. Uh, so, yeah, I actually had all of 2014, mostly off racing. Um, it was quite hard for me. When I first had surgery, I thought my career was done. I didn't think I would. I don't know. At the moment, you're like, what's for me now? But in hindsight, I actually think it was probably one of the best years I could have had because I started doing gym work, I started focusing on the tiny little things like Plyo and getting myself stronger and more robust. And because I spent time away from the circuit, I could really focus on myself and things that I could improve without the distractions, everyone else being around me. So, yeah, it was. It sucked. I mean, I didn't run for three months. And back in the day, ultra GS weren't that common, so I had to. The Bulldogs football club actually let me use the Ultra G at the time. So, yeah, I was quite lucky in that sense. But, yeah, that was touchwood. It's been the only injury that I've ever had in my 10 years, so I've been really, really lucky. But, yeah, that was probably one of the hardest years. And then, yeah, it's just taken me a while now to build up that strength in my left hip. When I first had the surgery, I told my leg to lift and it didn't lift because I lost muscle in it so fast, which you don't really think about. And I was quite scared. But, yeah, it's been good so far. So, yeah, that's all.

And you could say it's luck, but you've really said a couple of times on this episode that you really aim to be a robust athlete. And so it's not coincidence that if you put so much emphasis in diet and strength and conditioning and recovery that you will prevent injuries, Although not injuries are preventable. But for a lot of our athletes, we really focus and emphasize on recovery, especially age group athletes, as the older you get, the more recovery is important because making sure you can get to the start line is pretty key. So what do you do to really focus on the recovery side of things? And how much emphasis do you place on the recovery?

Quite a bit. One of my old coaches used to say, why sit when you can stand? Why stand when you can sit? Why sit when you can lie? When it's like. It's kind of a true concept because no one really likes standing around. So, yeah, I've played a massive part being a professional. I'm pretty lucky with my daily sort of schedule. I have the Ability to have the afternoon sometimes pretty relaxed before my last session of the day. Nutrition, sleep, the gym is all really good parts of being injury free and really the bone density side of things too, especially female athletes. That's a major part of why we do the gym work. And plyometrics. Yeah, I think as a junior you think you're a bit invincible. So I don't think I play as much importance into that when I was a bit younger, but now that I'm getting older, as soon as I come home from training I'm like, okay, I need my time to myself and that's the time that I choose to choose to lay down and to recover. So yeah, I think over time you just have to, have to learn that what's. You have to do what's best for you to be the best athlete you can.

You find that the recovery is so important. But is there something that you think you could do to take your mind away just to get it off the focus of. Because you're very dedicated. From what we've heard in this podcast about how you go about it, is there something that can relax you or is there something you think like a lot of people like to do some study or they like to have a part time hobby or is there something that you do outside that gives you that recovery rest from physical and mental training?

I'm pretty lucky my boyfriend's not in triathlon. So it's really nice to come home to him and not have to talk about things that I've done in my day. We can talk about other things. I generally enjoy baking. That's something that I really like and I suppose during COVID I like to do some projects. So I actually built my own squat rack in Chin Up Bar in my backyard. So that was like this, like something like that I enjoy doing just because it was, it was fun and a bit of an adventure and something that I normally didn't get time to do. So yeah, I mean the normal things like watching a movie, reading a book, that sort of things. But also when we come to new places and we have easy days, I like to see bit of the sites around the new towns that we're in because you don't get many opportunities to do that. So yeah, I try and make the most out of the travel that I get to have now.

Something I wanted to ask kind of on a similar note was, I mean from an outside point of view, the pro circuit looks so intense. The amount of races that happen, I assume that you break it into kind of a base season. And then once it's race season, are you really just trying to recover between races, especially if you're backing out week after week? Or do you find because they're sprints you can recover quite quickly? I mean, how do you actually manage the race load?

Yeah, early season is a bit easier because we have about three or four weeks between the racing, but in the June to July when it's back to back or even like the individual in the relay and then we're racing again the next weekend. Yeah, it's. It is really important for recovery and not actually doing too much in between because it's. You don't really need to, you don't lose fitness between a week and a week. Uh, so it's really just travel either, traveling to the next place. I'm getting settled and getting back into a routine. Um, but also there's kind of the other fine line of not doing too many races because that's when you actually start losing fitness because you're not training in between. So I think the most that we would do is either like, probably like the two to three races maybe. But apart from that, we never keep racing like weekend and weekend. And we raced the French Grand Prix and also the German Bundesliga and a lot of those times the races aren't so important. We just trained through those races because we had the opportunity to do so and wait for a major race to taper back down.

Fantastic. So the big year for Tokyo. Have you got a plan that you work backwards from and assuming that you'd be selected, that would be obviously, you know, in the front of your mind. Do you work your training program back from that date and everything's geared towards that or is it not the most important thing for the season? How do you manage? What's the key goals here? And the Olympics are massive in the world and. Yeah, I'm just interested in your thoughts on what the process is for you.

Yeah, I suppose I'm currently in week two of the new 2021 season leading to the Olympics. Yeah, we definitely do blocks of training. We know what's ahead of us. And I suppose I don't know if I'm selected yet, but we have to plan as if I was. So this month is just the base sort of training and then from January onwards we start introducing the heat work and the high intensity sort of training that we need leading into the new sort of season. Yeah, the Olympics obviously are the pinnacle and I, I think most of my squad is looking towards that. So it's Kind of great because everyone's on the same sort of. Same sort of pathway. But, yeah, if I don't qualify the Olympics, I know that there's still a WTS season that I can race and achieve good results. So. So, yeah, I think at the moment we plan as if the Olympics are happening and I do go. But for us, especially with the selection period being so late now, with the new discretion whole process, and we don't really know when the Olympic qualifying points are starting again, it's quite hard. So I think we have to kind of race both, be fit for both. I need to be fit for the WTS season to get chosen maybe, and then get fit for the Olympics. So, yeah, next year's a bit. A bit different, I think, to normal years.

That's great, though, that you've got that plan kind of really well set and mentally, you know, you really focus on exactly what you want. I guess that has to be key if you're going to commit to the goal. You have to really know what's ahead. We've actually spoken to some pro athletes on the podcast, and one who is also looking for the Olympics in the athletics and had kind of an opposite approach where he said that he actually doesn't want to know what's ahead, he just wants his coach to tell him kind of week by week as it's coming. He doesn't like to kind of handle that pressure. So it's interesting hearing the different approaches for you, knowing that that is the big goal, that's the pinnacle, that is the A race, you know, to apply a similar kind of mentality to what our athletes go through when they choose their A race. How do you go with that? Last month kind of bleeding into it, that taper phase, physically and mentally, how do you approach that process?

I think I've kind of learned throughout the years, seeing other athletes go to the Olympics and being at many world championships, that you kind of have to do your own thing. Everyone tends to get a bit, like, a bit antsy, I suppose. And it's just the way that everyone deals with coming into a big event. There's a lot of pressure. And being in international, I've seen the pressure from different countries, so. So I think I've learned from seeing other people when I was younger that I kind of have to be relaxed and just take the time for myself because I think that's the best sort of way to prepare. Um, yeah, even with tapering and stuff, every athlete is so different to what they need leading into a race. And in race week. So, yeah, I think even with, like, with my. I was with my old coach for nine years, and we kind of learned a process. What works for me. Um, and now with my new coach this year, great. To kind of learn what we need. Leaning into next year, kind of like a test run, I suppose, which is kind of the same with the Olympic sort of base sort of work. We kind of did a test run earlier in the year. Now we kind of know what we need. So, yeah, I think just take it. You have to do what's best for you. As selfish as that sounds, it's like you just have to do it.

Have you found, obviously changing coaches would have been difficult? You'd been with someone for so long, and you would known each other very intimately with what works. How has it been with the new coach? Have you straight away found immediate differences, or is there just subtle changes that have enabled you to feel like you're improving? And that's the key, isn't it? Every day you want to feel like you're just getting better than you were the day before.

Yeah, it's really true. I think with my new coach, I've had a lot better communication. I've been able to talk to him, and we've kind of worked through what. And we both. When I kind of met with him to start with him, we kind of sat down and said, well, what are you looking for out of this? And I basically said, I want to swim consistently. That was my biggest thing. And I want to be more consistent as a whole athlete and be at that top sort of level. But being in a group environment for so long, it was quite easy to go into another group environment. I already knew how the structure should have worked and how everyone operates in a group. So I think it was quite an easy transition to move into his group. Although I haven't had much time, it hasn't been the easiest year to join a new squad. But I really enjoy the training that we've had. And he was a really great communicator throughout this period. And he really, I think everyone, like I said, everyone has different personalities. So he was kind of like, if you need time to step back from triathlon this year and just keep doing base work, that's fine. I'm happy to do that because that's what you need to get through this year, then that's what you need to do. So, yeah, I think it was really good, that sort of aspect to get us through this Covid year.

That's awesome. Natalie. Well, I think we'll wrap up there. I mean your professionalism has been really impressive. Again, we've spoken to a lot of different, varying athletes of different versions of the sport, I guess you'd say because the sport ranges from, you know, what you're doing to right up to half Ironman. Ironman and hearing everyone's differences is always interesting. But yeah, your professionalism is really impressive, how well rounded you are and your approach to everything. So we'll definitely be rooting for you through Tokyo and all our listeners will be, I'm sure especially you know, hearing your story in detail. They'll be really excited to now know you and and watch you at Tokyo. So good luck with it all. Hopefully this election all goes well and you keep going with your form and can perform really well at Tokyo. We'll be looking forward to watching it.

Thank you very much for having me.

Thanks Natalie. Really appreciate it. Fantastic.