Ex-Olympic Runner (Now Cyclist) Shares His Most Valuable Lessons from Tokyo

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. Welcome to another episode of the Get Fast podcast. In today's episode we are joined by ex Olympic athlete from the 1996 Atlanta Games and Jewel X 5000 meter Australian champion and 10,000 meter champion, Julian Painter. Jules, this is the second time on the podcast. Welcome back.

Yeah, I feel pretty privileged there, Jordy, to get called back. I must have done something right the first time.

Yeah, definitely. Well, we're really looking forward to today's chat because we're going to be chatting all about week two of the Olympics and that was mostly dominated by the athletics, or at least in our eyes it was dominated by the athletics. I couldn't have watched any more Olympics if I tried and I know, dad, you were the same. So we're all raring to get into this conversation. Dad, welcome to the episode.

Thanks, Jordan. I think there'll be a few swimmers out there. Be a little bit aggrieved at what you just said. I think the swimmers did a reasonable job with, with their success. So yeah, look at all things Olympics and that's going to be great to talk to someone who's been there and done that themselves. Jules, good to have you on board, mate.

No, it's good. And a bit of, a bit of an in joke is always that the swimming and all, that's still part of the opening ceremony and the Olympics only actually starts when, when track and field commences.

I agree with that. And yeah, we are going to focus on week two in this episode. Dad, we gave the swimmers their time to shine in the last episode so we get enough about them. All right. And I, I just want to start by talking about the Olympics as a whole and how special the event is. And Jules, I want to get your thoughts on this because on the last day yesterday channel 7 did a bit of a montage and of course it was very well put together, very well edited. They had some emotional music showing all the highlights and the low lights of the Olympics because it's made up of both ends of the spectrum and it was quite emotional and it got to the point where they got to Andrew Gaze who was speaking about the Boomers bronze medal and he couldn't hold back his emotion when speaking about it and I'm sure we'll touch on that in this episode. As well. But when he was speaking, I just, it really hit me how special the event was and how much it just brings communities together. No matter what sport it is, the whole world kind of comes together and sometimes there can be a rhetoric around the world that, you know, sport is trivial and it's just sport, what does it matter? You know, whereas what does it matter in the grand scheme of real world issues, you know, politics or business or the economy and I think the opposite. I think sport is something that really brings communities together, really brings families together, countries together, and it creates this once in a four year unique event, which is the Olympics, which literally brings together the most amount of cultures in the world to compete to get to know each other. And Jules, I know in your experience too, meet each other in the Olympic village. So from that perspective, I just think there is something so magical about the Olympics and that was really highlighted when you really look at the last two weeks. It's just such an amazing event to watch for two weeks straight.

Yeah, it's such a concentration, Jordy. I mean, the world coming together for a two week period across so many different sports. And I think it didn't matter what sport it was if an Aussie was in it and they were giving it a red hot crack. We were glued to the television and that's all we expect to see. And I think that's the real spirit of the Aussies. When they're there and they're competing, you know, they're just giving the red hot crack and that's what everyone wants to see. I think the world coming together in such a time, especially this one, is quite special. I know. You know, I'm sure if you went back and asked everyone that voted in Japan about not having the Olympics, I'd probably say most of them probably have changed their mind. Not to sort of discredit why they voted the way they were sort of indicating not to have them on. But I think the crowds that were on the road when the marathon was on indicated public support just how special the Olympics were and how privileged the Japanese were to hold it. Maybe not in the way they wanted to, but I think, you know, kudos to them to put it on. There was no major dramas in terms of the protocols. It would have been very difficult for the athletes and all the teams to get there. But at the end of the day, there were some amazing results over the two week period.

Absolutely agree. So let's dive straight into some of the athletics and we can talk about any other sports we feel like, but we're going to focus mainly on the athletics, which all three of us just love. And honestly, sometimes I feel a bit like Bruce when I'm watching the athletics. You know, giddy with excitement, he can't contain himself in some of the events. And I'm sitting there and my housemates are going, oh, what about this person? I say, well they did this at this event, they had this result and they're expected to get this in this finish. Yeah, and it's so good. So I mean, I want to start with. Honestly, I think my favorite performance of the Olympics and it wasn't actually a medal, but I just, I had goosebumps watching this performance and I was so amped up. It was a late night performance. I think it was at 10 o'. Clock. I was so amped up I couldn't sleep for a couple of hours. I had so much adrenaline. And that was Peter Bowles 800 final. And watching his preparation, I think I watched every single one of his lead up races. And he just, he's always so grounded in all his interviews, in the lead up races. He was very much just of the attitude that he wants to keep staying consistent, slowly get better. You know, his attitude was he was a 145runner and he wants to be a consistent 144runner and then get up to that level where the guy's running 143 around the world and just measured in his approach and that just came through in the Olympic Games so much. And for him to make that final and run as gutsy as he did and I think the whole country got around him, that for me was just such a special performance.

I think, you know, everyone got to learn a lot about Peter Bol. The story of Peter bowl to get to the Olympics is an amazing story. Not only the Olympics, just for his life, you know, the opportunities he's been given. Coming to Australia, you know, it's sort of quite documented, you know him and I think it's Patrick Deng, I think the other 800 metre runner, they were looking for accommodation, couldn't find it and Bill shorten stepped in and helped them out in terms of support for them in the Maribyrnong area. So I think there's lots of stories like that to support, you know, the amount of people that you saw on television that were, you know, watching Peter bowl running his 800 meter final. That whole family, it was almost like an entire village that squeezed into a room to watch. But I think it's also the way he ran it. You know, they Sort of knew a plan that if it was going to be slow and he was on the front, he so be it. And he took it on. He led him and led that Olympic final. So he wasn't there making up the numbers and he left it all out in the track. And you know, he was looking over his shoulder and I was so glad he didn't get swamped. And he still got fourth and he held him off, but you know, he was leading that 800 meter final and you know that there's not been an 800 meter finalist for 43 years. And that's not because we didn't have good runners, but that's just how cut and throat it is. And I often think, you know, what would swimming be like if there was no lanes? You know what I mean? Like if somebody gets chopped or somebody gets kicked in the face or something like in a swimming race. I mean that's what happens in running where it's, it's not a time trial. You can be in a good position and, and you just get a bump or somebody out of no fault of your own. Somebody falls in front of you and then that's. All of a sudden you're out. So there's a bit of luck that goes through it. But I think Peter Bowen, the final, he made his own luck and it was a superb performance.

We talk a lot in our podcast about execution and being a racer. And this is a championship event and things change from qualifying to championship races where to get the qualifying time, you actually have to run with good execution to get to the time that's required to get into the Olympics. And then you have to absolutely change your whole race plan around. It's a championship race and anything can happen. And I love the way the Australian athletes took on. You just look across whether it was the girls in the 1500, him and the two guys in the 800, both of them in the 800, both in the 1500, the 5K guys, you know, even, you know, who was it who, who was struggling up the last straight? Pat Teen. And that was my. That was Jordan. You mentioned your favorite. I just thought that epitomized the Aussie spirit of like, I don't know if anybody saw, but he also fell over in the back straight before he got to the front straight. So he'd already fallen over once and, and he fell over in the front straight and he pretty much got back up and walked across the finish line and set a pb. That's how far he'd gone into the. Into the dark zone. And he was 9,600 meters into a race with the best in the world. And you can't, you know, people think, oh, he didn't finish very strong. But he, he gave himself every opportunity, gave it a crack. I, that's what came across to me. This is the first time, you know, I always feel like we're making the numbers up in athletics, but this, to me, we have a new breed of, of athlete who is almost saying stuff you. I'm good enough to be at the front, setting the pace or not being knocked over. It was, I loved it. It was, it was the best athletics I've watched in, you know, since I saw Ralph Du Bell win in 1968 at Mexico as a nine year old. And, you know, I'll never forget that. That was, that was, you know, incredible. And it's never, you know, we've never had a runner like it, success like that.

Yeah, I totally agree. Do you have any more comments on that, Jules?

No, I think that was, I mean, we'll run through, you know, a number of the events, but I think that's what shone through the vast majority of the athletic team and track and field team. They all competed at either best or close to their best performances. And it's such a competitive sport. I think if you compare the number of nations that win medals and that compete in athletics compared to other sports at the Olympics, it's a totally different ballgame. So just the width and breadth of the number of countries that compete, it's immense. So there's not too many other sports at the Olympics where you've got multiple African nations all lining up against you and that just brings in a whole aspect that's not there in a lot of other sports.

That is such a good point. And yeah, that just highlights how good. Peterbole, fourth in the world. Just unbelievable. So, I mean, that was my favorite moment. Jules, what was your favorite moment in the athletics that could have been that?

I think we've already touched on it. I think Patrick Tiernan finishing that 10k. I mean, I was pumped for him, you know, going into the bell lap, I thought he might have been finishing in top 10. I mean, they were on a fast pace. And that was the thing at the Olympics. It was, it was very fast. There wasn't that many, like what we call championship races where it was, you know, slow and then a kick home. Most of the races were pretty quick. And I mean, he's running against guys that have run 26, 11, just out of this world. How Fast they're going. So. But he was, he was right there, you know, with a lap to go. There's 10 or 11 of them there. There's only one other American and the rest are all African. And so he's the, you know, the big white man in amongst them all. And he was there and they pretty much the wheels fell off in that last sort of 250 meters. And you sort of saw that images of him collapsing and getting across the line and he just, he absolutely gave it everything. And I think that set the tone for everyone else in the athletic team to see that and see that performance. He's like, well, what are you willing to do? And sort of certainly felt that came out across a lot of performances.

Did you have another special moment that stood out to you?

Yeah, look, I suppose we did talk about it, I think already. And I loved is it Jess Fox, the paddler? And it's not in athletics, but it still stood out to me. Three Olympics, you've bronzed and silvered. You've never won gold. You're lining up for your third Olympics. You are the last starter on the start line. The camera's looking at you. Everybody's finished. You've got a now try and beat the whole field. You're expected to win. But how much pressure would have been on her? And she executed the best race of her career to win that gold medal. And it had taken her since 2012 to get to that point. So to me, that was. That epitomized the ability of someone to stay true to the plan and to remain focused. And the pressure would have been incredible. Jules, you've been at the Olympics. You know what it's like to stand there on the start line and imagine what faced her, the failures she'd had. And they're not failures. You know, she wants to win the gold medal and she's won bronze and silver, but they're not failures. But you know, her epitome of what she was trying to achieve, she hadn't got there yet. I just think that was really outstanding.

Yeah, I think the key there and I think some mindset, I can't remember who it was, there was an interview during the Olympics, but is if somebody else is better, so be it. But if I do my best, the result will be what it is. And you know, so not being afraid, so not thinking about making mistakes, just. Just concentrate on doing the best you can and if it comes out your second, third, fourth, whatever. But as long as you know that you've done your absolute Best. And you've left nothing behind. I mean, she was pretty frustrated. I think it was in the canoe final. I think that's the one that she sort of missed. Missed or got a bronze. And then, you know, in the kayak was. She was one of the people that really fought for that event to get into the Olympics. It was the first time it was in the Olympics. It's been in the men's program for a number of Olympiads. But, you know, she's fought for it to get in and then she's World Champ and she's come down and delivered. So that is.

Yeah, that is such a good point. And that is so important for athletes to hear. If you're ever nervous about a race coming up, then exactly what you say. Angels. Take the. Take the result out of it, take the stake out of it, and just focus back on your execution. And if that's good enough, so be it. I just think that is absolutely brilliant. Yeah.

I mean, if you become too results focused, it just. It can be detrimental. I find that's something that I sort of take in.

Absolutely. So let's move through the distances kind of chronologically. So let's go to the 1500 next. What were your thoughts across the. Both the men's and women's. The 1500. Because it was unbelievable to have four Aussies across the men's and women's final, two in each final. I just, like dad said before, it's so good to see Aussies on the forefront and not just making up the numbers.

Yeah, I was. Probably. My only disappointment was Jai Edwards didn't get through the heats in the 1500. I think he was probably more set up to be a championship runner with a faster finish. He's got a faster finish than I think Ollie hoare or Stewie McSwain, but he just got caught up in a bit of rough and tumble in his heat. Missed qualifications. So he was out. Really admired Ollie Hoare and Stewie in the semifinals. I mean, Stewie just. He took it on. I mean, he just laid it all down. He didn't. He was going to make sure he knew what the previous semifinal had run, he knew what he had to run. And at worst, if he finished seventh, he would have made it, made it through to the final. So he just laid it all down. So I think that takes big kahunas to 300 meters to go to be sort of absolutely going full stink and with the threat that you're not going to make the Olympic final. And he was probably one of the People most spoken about in the lead up. And then in the final, the men's. I think it was just an exceptionally fast race. Ingebritzen always looked pretty in control. I think the pace for Stewie was pretty hot, but it probably because it wasn't as fast quick early. So then it became a bit of a push and he sort of hung on and fifth I think in the end. So a fantastic result. And Ollie Hoare, another great result as well. So for them to both make the finals, pretty special. The women, I think Lyndon and Jess Hull, they, they both, you know, competed exceptional to make it through to the final. And they weren't just making up numbers. They weren't trailing off and finishing 80 meters behind. They were right there. I mean, you know, they ran a national record in the qualifying to make the final. So, you know, so Jess beat Lindenhall's ran358. I mean that's amazing. Even the men, I mean they were fast. I think Stewie ran 331 to get into the final and I don't think any of them ran over 334 until the final which sort of was a little bit slower early, but then came home fast. So I think really exciting for all of those. And I think in men's 15 there's still another handful of guys out there that are running pretty quick as well. So it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next sort of three years.

It will be interesting too. Giul, that's a great point. And that really org as well. With all of the other athletes watching on, they must get inspired by seeing. And you know, we've been to PB meets in summer here and I'm amazed at how many young female athletes are taken to the track and you know, 17, 18 year old boys joining in the PB meets. And when they see success from Aussies in the international field at the highest level, it must inspire them and grow the sport. And that's the thing that I'm loving about the Olympics and it really gives people. I read something Today about Brad McGee being inspired by what he saw at the 1988 Olympics in 1992 and he ended up winning gold medal at Sydney just because he saw something and he thought I could do that. And there must be so many, you know, young boys and girls out there who see this happening now. And you know, Brisbane coming in 2032 is something aspirational for them and we have the talent. It's just that, you know, it hasn't. And I think the PB Mate, you know, is exploding around the nation at the moment, is. Is the way to get people to start improving because they got the competition. That's. That's what we've lacked for so many years.

I think that's true. I think it's not only. I mean, you can have all these athletes, but I think it's getting them to compete. And I think that's what Stewie McSwain does. He leads by example. He competes a lot. I know that's the philosophy that Nick Badeau has, you know, and that goes way back to Cathy Freeman. I mean, she would do multiple events at a grade as part of her training. And, you know, Stewie was running down in Tassie. They run into pro mates. They do a lot of running and competing and use that racing. It might not be at the same level, but it's a bit like hard hitouts. They use it as training, as a bit of a threshold session.

I asked Jordy Williams, who we've had on the podcast before, who's trains with Stewie McSwain and under coach Nick Bodeaux. I asked him what he thought of the final and how he thought Stewie went because he spends a lot of hours with him each week. And he just said that. Yeah, because it was so fast. The race did suit him in the final, but he probably just ran out of legs because he'd had to run so hard in the semi. And that was his choice, to run as hard as he possibly could to guarantee himself a spot in the final. But it probably cost him a little bit. Just when the pace really kicked up, he couldn't go with them in that final.

Yeah, I think that's. That's where I think Stewie just. I mean, he's running bloody fast, way faster than I ran.

But.

But I'd be on. My prediction right here, right now is he'll win a medal in 5k in Paris. I think he's. He probably avoided the 5k in Tokyo. I'm only assuming this. I've not heard anything, but I just think the heat would have been. Assuming the heat would have been too much of an impact for it. Run the 15s and get through. But I think he'll win a medal in the 5k in Paris.

Moving up the chain, we'll talk about the 5,000. That's one of your pet events. And again, both men's and women's were great races. And in a 5K, chipter guy, just too strong.

Yeah, he was. I mean, he's. He's. Come step down from the 10 and still was, you know, too good. You know, you've got Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia, you know, Morocco, you know, Qatar, and then there's sometimes there's a heap of other Africans that are running for, you know, Belgium, Netherlands, you know, they're everywhere. So I think, you know, he, he just, he ran you really well, ran really strong and again, you know, a pretty quick time.

So I, I personally, I was rooting for Catia just because I'd watched a lot of him in the Diamond League meetups and I really like the way he races, but he was absolutely nowhere. And it was his for. I think it was one of his first full years on the international circuit. So maybe just that lack of experience. But we did see the heat have a big impact in both the 5k and 10k. But I wanted to touch on the American chip limo because, dad, you and I watched him in the American championships and you might have as well, Jules, where he was running really dirty. And in the last hundred of the kick, where it was a sprint finish, he ended up in lane four because he kept pushing out the other athletes. And I hate it when runners do that where they just go wider and wider. It's like they're not confident enough that they're going to beat them in a sprint so they push them wider. And he did pretty much a similar thing in the Olympics. And I don't know why it doesn't get caught up more. I just thought his last lap was dirty. It left a real bad taste in my mouth for him. Getting bronze.

Yeah, I think, I mean, they'll do whatever it takes. I mean, that's sort of. He's not chopping anyone off. He's just making pushing people widen. If you sort of know he's going to do that, you've got to try and be in front of him before you come in off the last bend. Yeah, so it's. He's not stepping on anyone's heels or anything like that, but I'd sort of say if he's chopping other people, that would be more of a concern.

Well, it works because he's been successful to last two Olympics. Yeah, he's got two medals, gold and the bronze. So.

Yeah, in the women's front, we had Hassan who was attempting the 1500, 5K and 10K triple. And we didn't touch on it in the 1500. But you said before the podcast, you know, she fell in her heat and then had to do a 400 meter PB it looked like to Catch back up. And she qualified for the final which was. When I saw her kick like that. I thought she can't lose anything with a kick like that. But I think. Yeah, go on.

I think yeah, it was a pretty remarkable day where she fell with a bit under a lap to go and then she's had to run. I don't know what a split was. It was certainly sub 60 and in that heat as well. It's quite a hot day from memory that morning. And she did it pretty easy. But that takes it out of you and then you've got to run a 5k that night and. But she made it look pretty easy in the 5k final.

Yeah, and she was just too strong in the 10k as well. I mean her last 100 meter looked like a sprint, you know.

Yeah, it was. I mean she got, she got shown up by the Kenyan in the women's 15 final. But yeah, it was a tremendous result and tremendous program for her.

Two gold medals and a silver. It's nothing to be.

Especially in those events.

Yeah, it was a standout performance, wasn't it really?

Yep.

One of the next ones I want to touch on which was a standout for me and if it wasn't for Peter Bol I would say this had the big. The most significant impact on me watching this event was actually both the men's and women's 400 meter hurdles. Again I just happened to be watching a lot of the 400 metal 300 meter hurdle races leading up to the games and watched Sydney McLachlan break the world record at the American Olympic qualifications and watch the Norwegian Viking. I can't remember his first name, is it? Yeah, yeah. Break the world record in Norway in Dom in the diamond league leading up and these two races were just exceptional. And I had a similar reaction to Tams and Lewis in the commentary when it happened. She kind of screamed into the microphone because she couldn't believe what she just saw. And I was similar. It was just such a freakish kind of superman kind of performance. And yeah, both those races with the top two in each race really battling it out just stood out for me as one of the highlights of the Olympics.

They were great races. I think that real head to head really made it. I think in. I think their times in the men's and women's, their winging times would have got them through the first round heats in 400 meters. So take the hurdles out of it. They're still running fast enough to get through the beats to semi finals in the 444.94.

He ran in the final.

And five, nine, four.

Yeah, sorry, 45. Yeah. So there were, you know, guys struggling to do that in a flat race.

Yeah. And I think, you know, even the guy that came second, I think he ran, what, 46, 15 or something, which was. I mean, they're leaving guys like Edward Moses, who was a phenomenal athlete. He's like 20 meters behind. So I think that. And you know, the women as well, I think that head to head competition in that final really pushed three of them. I think it was the kind of conditions where it's nice and hot there. It's. It's good for hurdling and good for sprinting.

Yeah, yeah. In both the men's and women's, the first verse, second has been a battle consistently. And in the women's, there was a third runner as well who hadn't been beaten in a year or something or two years. And in the men's, all three broke the world record. I mean, imagine breaking the world record and coming third. What else do I have to do? And I guess you can't complain. Exactly what you said before, Jules, is like, well, that was my best effort. I broke the world record. I can't be unhappy with third.

No, that's right. I think if you've laid it all down and, you know, you walk off the track, yeah, you would have liked goal, but if you know that you've done the absolute best and you've run a pb, then you've got to be pretty happy with yourself.

And on that note, we are seeing a lot of fast times being run and this topic got brought up in troublelo group of ours a couple of weeks ago, where looking at true technology, it is having an impact on race performances and you're a big believer that it is impacting a lot of the faster times at the moment. Explain to us some of your thoughts on that, because I hear that and I go, well, I think it's great because, you know, we have seen a pretty bit of stagnation in, you know, world records and results maybe for the last decade or two. And then now to see some times being broken, and even if it is due to more shoe technology, at least maybe it gives us some confidence that it's not because of doping, you know.

Yeah, I think, yeah. I mean, as long as it's an even playing field, I think if it's within the parameters and they're legal, I don't have a problem with it. I mean, you see the track and the conditions that the athletes are running on, it's a bit different to when they last ran at Tokyo, you know, in terms of, you know, a cinders track or anything like that. So, yeah, that technology, the technology ensues even before this last round of this sort of carbon plated shoes. You know, it makes a big difference. So I think that's fine if they're all, they're all able to use it and I think. But the other thing that if you notice and talking amongst a group of friends while the Olympics were on, we're certainly seeing a lot more lower leg injuries. So you sort of saw a number of athletes that had taping on their lower legs in terms of, you know, you know, Genevieve Gregson did her Achilles. Just how many people are getting more lower leg injuries because of the shoes? Some of them, the stability is not as good. So it would just be interesting over time with more time to sort of see what the impacts are.

Have you, have you tried the shoes at all, Jules? Have you?

No, no. It's funny, a friend of mine went for a run and I think his wife bought him, bought him a pair of, and he clipped along in a nice pace and I made a comment on Strava and he sort of came back and goes, mate, what we would have run if we had these shoes. So it's pretty amazing. But in terms of they certainly look, especially the longer distance shoes, but you're seeing a lot more people running 5 and 10k and they're running in runners, they're not running in spikes.

Yeah, yeah, I tried my first pair last year, end of last year, and I, yeah, cannot believe the difference it makes. And it, it feels like you're being sprung forward and I can understand why some lower leg injuries might happen because it feels a little bit unnatural. And so I've tried to really just keep it for races or tough training sessions that I want to do it in, but I'm really not trying not to do too many K's in them because I do have a little bit of that fear because it's, it's quite unnatural how much propels you forward.

Yeah. And the thing is, I mean, in a, I think I did the calculation for somebody to sort of say, okay, if it improves your time by 1%, that's 12 seconds in a few K, that's, you know, that's a significant, that's a significant amount and you know, 1% in, you know, 1500. So that's 15 meters. You know, that's, that's, that's the difference between making a final or not. But if everyone's wearing them, then that's fine. And there'll be particular runners with particular foot strike and that, that might get a little bit more out of them. But I don't have too much of a problem if everyone's doing it. And also it's the same in sort of implements and things like that with world records and stuff like the javelin where they change the midpoint weight of it and it brings it back to sort of pull the distance that they're throwing back. Just the same as the technology of the shoes will make people run faster. And so long as it gets to a certain limit and you've not got full on springs on the bottom there. Yeah, you're pretty right.

And they have got those limits in because the shoes that Kipchoge ran to break two hours for the marathon in that illegal attempt in quotation marks, it was not count as a proper world record. It was just to see if a human could actually do it. They are illegal in competition. So there's a few steps of the Nike kind of vapor flies and the very top ones are illegal in competition and some of the levels below are legal and. But then you're right, it is becoming more, more of an even playing field because Asics have brought out their own version of a similar shoe and more shoe companies are getting involved. And I guess one of the arguments against it is that you want to compare, you know, error to error, but it's just impossible because there's so many, so many advances in technology in all areas.

So I think technology, but I think also just the science behind what gets an athlete onto the field. You know, the difference in nutrition, the difference in recovery, you know, the difference in the surfaces they're running on. You know, there's, there's a whole heap of additional elements that go into it nowadays that just wasn't there in the past.

The ability to be paid well as a professional athlete and just focus on training.

It always makes a bit of a thing. But you know, a lot of that's the thing. A lot of the athletes that you sort of see at the Olympics, you know, some are definitely professionals and making a lot of money, but there's a lot of athletes that aren't.

Liam Adams is the classic, isn't it the electrician. And you know, let's talk about the marathon. It's, it's, it's the event, isn't it? I mean the Olympics, the marathon epitomizes the Olympics. And to see Kipchobee you know, do the double. Four years, five years apart. You know, as Jules and I were talking earlier, you know, putting them to the sword at exactly the same time, you know, two Olympics in a row. It was, it was fantastic to watch.

I think, you know, with Kipchoge, he's. He's the goat like he is in terms of the marathon. His performances are exceptional at championship level and let alone how fast he's run. But he, even if you, even if he stopped his running career before he became a marathoner, he had an exceptional 5K, you know, so he's been a medalist at World Championships. He was running against Gabor Selassie and, and El Guerroos. So he's a guy that's done that and he's moved up into the marathon and, you know, he runs 2 hours, 8 minutes and 38 seconds in that height as well. And just, you know, clipping along at sort of, you know, low 15s. Then you sort of see the pace just pick up to about a 1507 and then bang, there's a 1428. And we were looking at the splits going. Is that right? 1428. You know, it looked like he was moving and he's just his cadence and he's. He just looked comfortable, which is amazing because you can't appreciate how hot and humid that was. We had a friend on course and he was giving us the updates in terms of the weather. But then also we're looking at the splits and you're seeing guys like Gallum Rupp that was right there. And then all of a sudden he's off and, you know, dropping back and it just became. And he finished eighth. So there's people in the top 10 that were pretty much outside that top sort of four runners, a lot of them. It was survival to get to the line. There's a long list of did not finish. And you saw runners just running along and all of a sudden almost going into a headspin and just pulling out.

And there's a lot to be said for execution on those days and understanding the conditions and understanding your ability. And I really thought Liam Adams ran a very, very well executed race. At one stage with I think 12k to go, he was 60 something and he. And he finished 24th or 25th and I thought that was outstanding.

Yeah, I mean, he still ran 2:15 in that sort of weather condition. So that's quite exceptional.

It really does epitomise the Olympics, I think, is such an old school event, a marathon. And to see the carnage Crossing the line. Just summarize what you say, Angels. If the conditions were just that brutal, that athletes were just sprawled out all over the place and really just crawling over the line and they were flying in, you know, they weren't coming in slow. Yeah.

And that's the nature of the Olympic marathon. You know, go back and Barcelona was hot, certainly Atlanta was hot. Sydney was one of the ones where it was probably a cooler condition. But I think they certainly ran faster here than they did in Sydney. Athens was hot, Beijing was hot, London was okay and Rio was hot. So you sort of got a lot of really hot, you know, conditions for running an Olympic marathon.

It was interesting watching the battle for the silver and bronze, the three guys battling for two medals and I was astounded to see the guy cheering his, his countrymen from a. He was representing a different country against the Kenyan. What's your take on that? That was hilarious. I thought.

Yeah, I think just try different training partners. I mean they obviously trained together and they were pretty keen to sort of get across the line just as, you know, supporting one another, let alone that one was running, I think for Belgium, one was for Holland. So I think that was a great result for them. And I don't think there was too much love loss with Toronto who they beat across the line.

Yeah, it was a, it was a pretty bizarre kind of last hundred meters and I sort of expected a 5,000 or 10,000 meter style kick where they really just went. But you could, you knew they were on their limit when the pace barely increased. The sprint finish was just the most, the slightest of increases in pace and you forget that how gone their legs must be that there's just no way they're going to be able to push any more than that at the end.

Yeah, and they had Tirono on the front there for the last couple of kilometres as well. So they made him work for it just. And rolled over him.

Yeah. Taking it back to the track, I want to touch on a couple more Aussies and one is in the high jump. Nicola McDermott with the silver medal, a very well deserved silver medal performance was excellent. But I want to hone in on something I think you'll love, dad, which is a pre jump routine. Same routine every time gets her in the mode to do that jump. And then more importantly, everyone knows about her post routine which is assessing your performance and writing in the diary and you just put so much emphasis on that is that you have to assess every result, good or bad, to see what you can learn from.

Yeah. I think. I think. I think what I'd ask anyone is grab a tape measure and measure out 2 meters too. And that's what we were doing the other night with the boys. We were sitting here watching the television and the long jump qualifications were on. And we grabbed out the tape measure and I just measured out 8 meters and just measure that out and you go, how is somebody to measure that? And then literally, then the men's high jump was on. We put up 2 meters, 30 on the wall. But even 2 meters, 2, you see, they got to get over that. It's not like a basketball ring. You just jump up and touch, actually. You've got to get your whole body over it and not knock off the bar. So quite exceptional. It's fantastic that we've got a couple of really top classes. High jumpers. Eleanor Patterson, a good Gippsland girl. So she was in the final as well, and it was a great result. And I think, again, following a routine, not getting flustered, and you could tell that she was extremely happy in terms of her own performance. Wasn't worried about what the Russian was doing or anything. Just concentrate on what I do, because it doesn't matter what the Russian does, it's not going to impact what I do.

Yeah, there's so many good, positive things about that. And watching all the field events, it is very much a mind game because there's so much time between your execution of your actual turn. So as a discus thrower, as a javelin thrower, as a shot putter, as a high jumper, there's so much think time between. And if you let the emotion take you on a bad journey, you could underperform. And I was. I was so wrapped the way all the Aussie field athletes performed and they seemed to be really in a good headspace and. And especially the javelin. I don't remember her, her name, but we had three. We had three finalists in the javelin and.

Kelsey Barber. Is that her name?

Yep, she's the world champion.

I think the girl, little from Sydney, but pretty much come out of lockdown.

Yeah. And look, she got herself a medal with her last throw. You know, that takes guts and a really good mindset and concentrating in the moment and executing your best effort and getting everything out of your mind. And we saw that time and time again. And it's different to a track race where, you know, the gun goes and it's confusion the whole time, and the person who can hold their head can. Can, you know, manage their way and navigate their way to a good outcome. There's just so much time. The high jump takes, you know, two and a half, three hours of, of, you know, doing your jump and then waiting.

Yeah, and it's not a consistent weight either because obviously, you know, you might clear a height first attempt and there's a whole raft of people that take multiple attempts to clear their. Clear their height. So we're in the long jump attempt a little bit more consistent. But the high jump, pole vault, you can be out there for a hell of a long time between. Between efforts.

This is why I love athletics and I do love both track and field, although I lean more to track. But I loved my housemates reaction to the whole athletics event because obviously I was watching every event and they would come in and watch as many as they could and every event just seemed unique to them. And every time there was a new event on, they'd say, is this the weirdest event in track and field? Because there are some. Definitely some weird events. You know, the high jump itself is just. Who thought of that? Who thought of the Frosby flop or, you know, that way to get over. And then you see the pole vault and you go, this is an extreme event. And then even the triple jump, it's just such a weird motion. And the tactics involved in all the track events and with all those convents combined. I know, Jules, that you wanted to talk about Astralone's bronze.

The duathlon, the decathlon.

Decathlon, Sorry, decathlon.

Did 10 events, not two.

Yeah.

I've had one prediction about Stewie McSwain winning a medal in the 5,000. When we get to Paris, I'm tipping a gold medal for Ash Maloney. Like if he is in one piece and keeps progressing, you've got a 21 year old and it takes a huge amount of strength. And you look at the physique of the guy that won Warner from Canada, and you look at Ash Maloney and he still looks a bit of a boy. I mean, he's 21, but you know, what an athlete. He runs 10.34 for the 100, you know, jumps 7 meters, 64 for the long jump, jumps 2 meters, 11 in the high jump. And then, and I think, you know, throwing, I think there's a discus there on the first day as well. But then runs 46.2, 400 for 401st day.

And can hurdle.

Yeah, it's absurd.

Yeah, I mean, 14 second hurdle, nearly breaks 14 seconds for 110 hurdles, pole vaults five, you know, five meters. And then you see him run the 1500 and it looks, it always looks funny when you see decathletes run on. But he still ran 4:38, so he's running, you know, just over three minute kilometer pace.

Yeah.

And then his teammate, Cedric Doubler, you know. Yeah. He's screaming in his ears to sort of pick up the pace and he comes home in the last 200 and closes the gap enough and doesn't lose enough points to lose the bronze. So a fantastic result. What he's done at 21 years of age in the decathlon is really exciting and it's a brutal Sport, like doing one event but let alone 10 in two days. And talk about mindset, you got two full days where they're out there. So it's a tremendous effort.

Yeah, look, the athlete who can not lose the plot is probably the one you've got to be talented, obviously in all disciplines. But he's, you know, his calmness at 21 and, and I think he performed a lot of PBS along that journey to get to that, which you just, you just got to take your hat off to say, you know, chapeau, well done. Unbelievable.

I think a big advantage was having his teammate out there who they trained together with. So it's like imagine, you know, you've got one of your best friends training partners, one of the guys that you've sort of really idolized there with you, and you're working together as a team. So as much as they're all competing against one another, but they're just trying to post the best personal scores, you're spot on.

The nature of them being that good across so many events is just. It's really hard to comprehend because they're not just pretty good at them all. They're really at an elite standard, almost an Olympic standard for all these events. I mean, the guy that won his 100 meter sprint was 10.14 or something. It was as fast as all the 100 meter sprinters in the, in the actual Olympics. Um, and I'm glad you corrected me on the duathlon because even in my notes I wrote duathlon, I've just got duathlons in my mind because we've got a few coming up. But it's definitely the decathlon and, but I mean, to finish off with, there are so many highs associated with the Olympics. We see so many good stories and there are equally just as many devastating stories. And we had a few in the athletics and yeah, we did want to talk about them because they're important to talk about because they. It's a natural process that Any athlete will go through, whether it be injury, just a devastating performance under preparation, something can happen that will leave you in tears compared to elation.

Yeah, and I think that's it. I think, you know, whether or not it's anything to do with the footwear or anything like that, but Genevieve Gregson rupturing her Achilles in the, in the steeple. You know, heartbreaking. I think, you know, the low, as much as we sort of said it was gritty, but I'm sure Patrick tin and didn't sort of think he'd finish the way he did in that. But out of that, that was a truly gritty performance. That was sort of been everyone's memory for a long period of time. I think even in the track cycling. Alex Porter crashing like that took real courage to get back on the bike. Catriona Bissett in the 800 was certainly running plenty of sub twos and then just didn't quite have it or didn't run the race that she would have liked in the 800 meters. And then probably Jack Rayner in the marathon comes in with a bit of a stress reaction in the leg apparently. And that's the luck or misfortune of it all coming to the Olympics. Fingers crossed that it's going to pan out that way. But he didn't last too long, which is bitterly disappointing for him as well. So as much as there's all highs, there's a lot of lows.

There's.

Well, you know, the Matilda's getting knocked out or, you know, the opals not progressing, lots of that. So there's that, that's the Olympics is just how big and special it is. It's once every four years. They don't have a chance to redeem themselves next week or next year. It's luckily they've only got three years, but it's a four year program, so. And whether or not, you know, luck is, is on their side that they're fit enough and well enough to sort of qualify and get into another Olympic tournament games.

And look, that that sort of summarises why I think it was so extraordinary what Jess Fox did from 2012-16 to 2021. You know, that is exactly what you said. There's so many lows in her journey and to finish off with the high, you know, that's what a lot of the people listening, you know, it's not going to turn out 100% the first time. If it does, I'll use Jordan as an example. He's played senior football for two years and in those two years, he's won two Premierships. I mean, how many footballers can say that? Guys play 50 years and they don't get a Premiership, but that's just, you know, fortune to have that happen. But they're the highs, but the lows, you know, can be years and years of toiling and having, you know, unlucky things happen to you, injury or illness or poor form at the wrong time. You know, it does take a really good set of events for you to actually get to the best outcome on the day that it counts the most. And there's not many people who can do that. And, you know, for every race that's run at the Olympics, there's only one winner, and everybody else in the race has not succeeded in winning the race. So. So, you know, as you said earlier, I think that's important for us to understand that not only is your personal best one of the main things to aspire to, but also the journey of, you know, how you're doing it, how you're getting there, and the things you're learning about yourself and others around you, and come race day or whatever you're working towards, that's not all that counts. It's getting yourself prepared properly and giving yourself the best chance to actually do a pb.

Yeah, definitely. I think it's a combination of so many things, Gerry. I think it's a lot of planning, being confident and also being very lucky. So I think getting there and there'll be a lot of athletes that will be already circling the dates that they think they're going to be competing on in 2024 and working back with from there. So there's a lot of work that will be done, but life will go on and who knows what the world will be like in 2024, but hopefully we can get over there and watch some of it.

One last thing on that note, I'd like to ask you both, as an athlete, when you have these major setbacks or disappointments, how do you personally pick yourself back up and go again?

You go, jules, for me, it's all about perspective, Jordi. Um, you know, like, I was hoping that after making 96, I was in good shape in 99, and I'd go to the 2000 Olympics and injuries sort of worked out, but that was. Didn't happen. And then pretty much about less than a year after the Olympics, it pretty much reoccurred. And so my running career was over. And it's having perspective that, you know, I don't worry about what I Didn't do. I just worry about what I did do. So I was very fortunate and lucky to get to one Olympics and, you know, quite amazing and, and put it in perspective that if the worst thing in my life is that I didn't get to go to my second or third Olympics, I'm doing all right. So it's, it's. That's something that sort of sticks with me is I know stories of other people, you know, in terms of not just sport but in life in general that, you know, they've got a lot more to deal with than what I have to. So it's always been put things in perspective. And I know I say this to Jerry out on the bike and you have problems and you got a flat battery or something like that. I go, well, Eddie Merckx didn't have to deal with that. So, you know, so we've sort of got to put things in. And what, you know, in our house here, we always sort of say, is that really a first world problem? You know, if the ice cream's not, you know, hard enough or cold enough or, you know, anything like that. But I think it's just putting things in perspective and, and being real around what it actually is and what you're doing. And I think, who was it? I think Mike Powell or somebody like that back in the day? Long jumper. He says, I get paid a lot of money to run and jump into sand, so it's the same back in the day. I was very fortunate to live a life of just going for a run. So I think it's that just keeping things in perspective, what's really important and then. And then things that are sort of nice to do.

Perfect answer.

Fantastic. It's a bit hard to follow up on that one, I reckon, but for me, I just think the journey is more. Is so much more important. I've said it so many times. I just love the journey. And there's always going to be probably 99%. You know, you're never achieving the ultimate. And, you know, if you only competed because of the high of the victory, then I don't think you'd be doing. There wouldn't be a lot of people competing. And I think it's more about the journey and what you learn about yourself. And there's so many lows that happen on that journey and you've got to pick yourself up and dust yourself off and refocus. And I'm so determined from my negative results to drive me to be. It motivates me to aspire to be better. And, you know, if I perform poorly, it's almost fired fuel for me to actually reset and work out, where did I go wrong? What preparation did I do wrong? How did I execute? And it's a driving force to get me up the next morning. When I look and think about when the start line is in six weeks time or six months time, and work backwards from there, saying, right, what just happened then is never going to happen again, and I'm going to get myself in the best preparation. And that's a. It's a different take on from what you've just said, Jules, but it's more in. In line with what I feel is the driving force for. For, you know, what we do, what we love to do. And, and at the end of the day, as long as I've performed to my best ability, then I. The low, it's no longer a low. You know, it's hard to talk in highs and lows. I just think the journey is a high in itself. And if you can actually execute on race day or whatever you're aspiring to, I just think you're a winner anyway. And, you know, that's kind of what gets me motivated day in, day out, I think, because, you know, when you get to, you know, 60 plus, you know, you think, well, you've been doing this since you were 18, in some cases since you're 12, you know, how do you keep fronting up for another training session? Well, that's easy because I just, I just compartment, compartmentalize everything and work backwards from my next, just, you know, my next destination point.

Great, great. Two answers there. So, I mean, on that note, and in line with kind of the Olympic spirit, I want to finish off this conversation by asking you, Jules, what else stood out to you from a takeaway perspective, or what stood out to you in the Olympics that is worth paying attention to or worth learning, do you think?

I think it's what it means to those people that have sort of been there multiple times or in some instances, you know, we look and go, what does it mean to Paddy Mills? He's a guy that's been on multiple campaigns, hasn't won a medal, and the work and preparation that goes into it for those guys is immense. A lot of time and sacrifice away from families in the team environment. But you could just see that these Games, there was a real focus in the team, and they won all their pool games and came up against America and unfortunately came up short. But it would have been nice to be on the other side of the draw and, and, you know, potentially meet America in the final rather than the semi final. But to see, see that performance, the team spirit that would have been, you know, there was a massive gathering of the Aussie athletes back in the village watching the game. And that's what it is. It's an Olympic team. So you've got all the different sports come together to cheer on and, you know, congratulate everyone. There'll be a lot of people that were pumped about winning BMX because it's all part of their team, part of the Australian team. And then to see the reaction of Joe Ingalls, Paddy Mills with a bronze medal around the neck. They were just over the moon. And I saw footage earlier today of gathering of all the athletes and they're singing. We come from a land down under in the village and Paddy Mills is in the middle of it all dancing, and there's all athletes sitting around and there's NBA stars, deliberdova and the likes that are, you know, in amongst all the other athletes. And they're just having a good old time. And I think that's the spirit that they sort of get and you don't get it anywhere else. And I think the other thing was, you know, probably Andrew Gaze's reaction, you know, tearing up and that's over a bronze medal, you know, bloody hard to win where, you know, maybe not so hard to. Certainly hard to win in the pool, but probably not as. Not as. Not as hard. So to come away with medals in the pool and say basketball or some of the other sports that are on offer.

Yeah, I think Andrew Gaze really epitomized the feeling, didn't he? And listening to his story with his. For those who don't know, his dad was, you know, Mr. Basketball of Australia and he started basketball back in the 70s, Lindsey Gaze. And, you know, I heard him say that, you know, there was 250 registered basketballers in Australia back in the 60s and 70s and where basketball has come from, from there. And, you know, Andrew's lived that as a. As a little kid watching his dad. So, you know, you can really understand why he was so emotional. To see, you know, him being in three or four Olympics himself and come fourth three times. And, you know, it's such. Such a journey and another one of those examples of hanging in there and. And how sweet it is when it eventually happens and you have to be patient in all sorts of walks of life. It means more to you when you have to strive harder, I think, to get to the end of the Journey. So it was so good to see him so vulnerable and open up. And, yeah, I loved it. That was one of the highlights for me, to see him just. It meant so much to him.

And Jules taking it back, I mean, how much did you feel, the Aussie spirit competing for your country in 1996?

It was fantastic, Jordy. I think, you know, again, it's. You'd be heading off to compete and people didn't even know you, so whether they be a swimmer or whatnot, but they saw you were going to compete and they were wishing you luck, you know, so it wasn't like they didn't. They didn't know who I was, but. And certainly when you came back or you met other athletes, it was very, very tight. Or the number of track and field athletes that were in the stadium the night that Kathy Freeman was running the 400 in Atlanta. Everyone has lots of TV rooms that were pretty full with athletes and watching lots of different sports. So you became a bit of an expert on all the sports. And certainly, I know in Atlanta, the rowers were off different venue, so about 50 or 60 kilometers away, but as soon as they finish, they're all back in the village and giving in on the Olympic spirit. But that was one of the things you take away from it. And then also the guys that you competed with and on the track and field team, you still have, to this day, still a very, very strong bond. And I've got a picture so where I've got my Ergo set up. And these days we see said, we do a lot of time on the Ergo, but I've only got to look up and it's a picture of, as I've walked into the stadium of the opening ceremony. And that's the. That's the. I always look at it and go, that's the moment I became an Olympian. And it's very special. And it sort of reminds me of all the hard work that I've done, and that reminds me of why I do what I do now.

Truly amazing. I mean, yeah, I couldn't think of anything more special than to be able to call yourself an Olympian and represent your country. And like I said at the start, you know, some people might trivialize sport that way, but I totally disagree. I think it brings the nation and the country together, and we saw so many examples of that. And I think social media also compounds that affect. Now, Stewie McSwain said in an interview after that he sees every single message from thousands of randoms, which just gives him so much Support and belief to finish off. Dad, did you have any other comments you want to make about the Olympics in general or comments towards Jules? No.

We're really fortunate to have Jules on board and his insights is, as usual, so measured and. And, you know, that Olympic spirit is definitely strong and epitomises what Jules is about. And it's great to have someone with such intimate knowledge still in the sport giving us some of his insights. So really appreciate that, Jules. So thanks very much, mate, for being on board.

Ah, pleasure. And then probably just to round out, I mean, I'd sort of say what we've got in the Trivelo group isn't dissimilar to preparing for the Olympics. You know, the group of athletes feeding off each other's performances. Whether or not it's. I've never met Blair down in Tassie, but I certainly have raced enough against him on Zwift and sort of you feel connected. And certainly, you know, Nick Lecandro and the likes that, you know, are all on Zwift Racing. And then the guys that we train against, you know, during the week when we have our group rides on the Saturday, it's pretty competitive, but you feel like you're competing against a great bunch of mates and you push each other along. And there's a lot of fringe benefits that we get out of that that you don't get anywhere else. And I think that's a real training advantage that we have that other people don't, which keeps you motivated when you're in lockdown. And I sort of see lockdown at the moment is. It's a real advantage for us because we'll feed off each other and our training performances won't fall away.

Yeah. Every time there's a lockdown, I sort of think to myself, well, I know I'm gonna have a really good training block. So, yeah, I love. I love that you said that, because when I watched that Channel 7 montage yesterday that I mentioned at the start of this episode, that was actually one of the first things I thought of was the amazing Tribala community that has formed through the nature of sport. And it's why we are so passionate about Travelo coaching and what we do here. It's because the amount of friendships and networks that have been created just in travel alone shows the power of sport and community. And so I think that this is such a brilliant point and a great way to finish off. So, Jules, thank you very much for joining us. Absolutely loved having this chat with you, and I think we'll have to make you a bit of a regular. Anytime there's any big athletics events on, we'll get you on and have some special pleasure.

No problem. Anytime.

Thank you, Jules. Appreciate it. Cheers, dad. And that's it for this episode. We'll see you next time.