From Running Ban To Marathon Redemption with Sarah Klein

2018 and 2019, I still had some ups and downs with injury and it was at the end of 2019 that I did my build up after a bone stress injury a little bit differently. So I was like, look, this is, this is the last try. This is like the, you know, third bone stress injury in a row. I need, I'm going to do something different in this build up because I'm, you know, I've just been getting the same result, doing the same thing. So we're going to do something differently.

This podcast is brought to you by Trivalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. In today's episode, we are joined by Sarah Klein. Sarah is one of Australia's top marathon runners, recently competing at the world championships for the marathon in Oregon. She first got to weather green and gold as a 29 year old when she qualified for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow in 2014. And she got to represent Australia once more at the World Champs in Beijing in 2015 before her running world and her career got turned upside down when she received a letter from, from ASADA handing her a four year ban from the sport. Completely unknowingly and completely caught her off guard and blindsided her. And what followed was just a pretty remarkable story. And we use the word remarkable and we use the word incredible a lot on this podcast and I think we're fortunate that we get to talk to some really good guests with just incredible character and she is one of them. And automatically when you hear someone is banned, I know that my first thought is, well, if that's what they've decided, then that's it. They've cheated. They have to serve their time. And I had a little bit of a different perspective on this story because I've known and seen Sarah running for a long time. And then to see and hear her story unfold, it's really a story worth hearing. And there's no doubt by the end of this episode you will appreciate her character and who she is as a person and you support her as a runner as much as we have. And dad, you, you were feeling a range of emotions listening to Sarah tell that story.

Wow, that is exactly right. It's so hard to summarize the highs and lows that she's experienced and her resolve and, you know, that shines through her character, her sense of never giving up her Sense of just carrying on day to time all the cliches you can ever throw at any topic. She is the queen of it. And honestly, the only thing lacking was she didn't win the world title. And that would be unexpected. It would. And we could make a movie about this story because to come back from this adversity, to be banned and wrongly banned, in my opinion, and I'm really interested to hear what other people think after listening to this podcast. But it is an incredible journey that she's been on. And I must say her, her strength of character not to be bitter and twisted about what, what happened to her during that time and to just be humble and so gracious about everything that happened to her after that. And she still is in love with running. And it's, you know, it didn't define her, but it's what she did. It wasn't, you know, she learned a lot of good things about, you know, I'm not, I'm not Sarah Klein the runner. I'm Sarah Klein the person who runs. And I think that's a great lesson that, you know, that we could, we could learn by. We don't want to be, you know, measured by what we do all the time. You know, we got to be happy in our own skins and, you know, what we do is part of who we are, not defining us. So I think it's some great life lessons here for everybody. Whether you're into sport or not, whether you're a runner or not, it doesn't matter. It's just so many good things that come out of. Of her story, and I really hope everybody enjoys it, and it is a bit of a roller coaster, so I hope you enjoy it.

Yeah. As always, we're pretty confident that you will enjoy this story as much as we did. So without further ado, here is Sarah Klein. Sarah, thank you very much for joining us on the Tribalo podcast. We really appreciate having you on. The first question we like to ask our guests is, what does running mean to you?

Well, if we want to get to other questions in this discussion, I'll have to keep it brief. What does running mean? Geez, it means. So it just is. Is lots of things I think running is for me, like what running is. I think over the years, given I've been doing it for so long, has meant different things at different times. But I think where it's landed with me at the moment is that it's something that I do for me. And it is, yeah, like it plays different roles, whether it's like, you know, mental health, switching off from work, the competitive side of it, pushing my limits, all those sorts of things. But yeah, that's sort of a nutshell answer. But I could go on about that.

Actually, if you were to go on a little bit, then tell us a little bit more of an insight. Because it is all those things and as athletes, we all know that and we all love those things, but we are interested in. Yeah, for you specifically, especially after your journey. And we'll get into that in this episode. But yeah, go one more, one more level deeper. What else does it mean?

Yeah, well, like the. My running journey has had its ups and downs and I think that, you know, as a young, having been an athlete that did athletics as a junior through little ass and then through school, through uni and then, you know, through injuries and, you know, highs and lows of sports, sport, it has represented different things at different times. It's not always been something that I've wanted to jump out of bed to do, but after sort of, you know, some of the rough times, which we can get into shortly, I think where I stand with running at the moment, it's something that I do for me, it's something that provides like, challenge and opportunity for me to push my limits and get the most out of myself physically and mentally. It was actually one thing I realized going through Covid, actually was that, you know, I know I'm a competitive person, but I really missed the competition when we couldn't compete. And so that's been, you know, another sort of dimension that I've really, like, remembered is important to me about running is the competing and the. And the racing part of it. But yeah, I also like what running, you know, the, the mindset that running and distance running in particular, and I'm totally biased, but the. Yeah, the mindset that it develops, you know, that you can apply to other parts in. In your life as well. And so, yeah, like, you can set a goal in running and you can't sort of hide anywhere in a marathon. And I think that kind of approach to other things that you do in life where, you know, you, you get out what you put in is something that I, I take away.

We couldn't agree more. That's such a terrific answer. And it's just so true how applicable it is to. We always say this in the podcast, how applicable distance training is and running middle distance and long distance training is to other areas of life. So I absolutely love that. Let's get into your career. 2014. You get to represent Australia for the first time at the Comm Games and then again at the World Champs in 2015. How was that experience getting to where the green and golden represent your country?

Yeah, it was like one of those things that I was almost 30, I think I was 29 when I was selected for the Commonwealth Games. And it was one of those things, like, when I was at school, I was never kind of, you know, a school athlete where people thought, oh, you know, Sarah Klein, she's gonna run for Australia one day. Like, that would have not been on anyone's radar when I was at school. And so to just keep sort of chipping away through my 20s and to get the opportunity to, yeah, be in the mix for selection for Commonwealth Games was something I didn't expect. And so when it eventuated, you know, I was. I was really emotional of just crying and super proud and just a little bit overwhelmed, so. And that kind of extended. That emotion kind of extended through the whole experience, really. Like, my family came over to watch and I ran a PB in Glasgow. And, yeah, it was just like the pride that you feel, you know, like, every marathon sort of has a journey even just to get to the start line. So to then be able to get to the start line fit and healthy and then run a PB and do that in the green and gold with your family there and, you know, all of that was pretty special. Yeah. And then I had a chance to do it the following year in the World Champs in Beijing. A different kind of race, like the hot China summer, with different sort of preparation. And, yeah, had to be a bit more patient in my approach to that race. But, you know, any chance you get to run in the green and gold and especially in the Australian team for the marathon, like, there's some pretty special results in people that have worn the green and gold in that event. And so to be part of that alumni is like, that's pretty cool.

It is amazing story, isn't it? And of course, every marathon's got different challenges. And boy, would it be extreme from Glasgow to Beijing. I mean, everybody knows Scotland and how cold it is. A lot of the time. You would have to have really prepared differently. And I know we want to get into this sort of stuff down the track, and Jordan will be a bit annoyed at me. I'm jumping in straight away.

But.

But just briefly, how did you prepare differently for. From Glasgow to. To Beijing, knowing that the temperatures were going to be so vastly different?

Yeah, it was funny actually, with Glasgow, because it. They were having a heat wave over there, when the com games were on, it was 26 degrees, so it was just like not hot at all. The conditions were fine for in Glasgow, they were fine. But we did have to do some different things for Beijing to try to get that heat acclimatization. But one of them. So we did a little bit of heat acclimatization running in heat chambers. I spent a little bit, a little bit of time in Queensland, which, you know, I think I had went into that marathon with some physiological adaptations. But when you come to the training phase and if you're training in a heat chamber, for example, the recovery from that can take longer. And so when you're, if you, if you're going to adopt some of those heat acclimatization methods, you've got to be willing to compromise, you know, the day after because of recovery to that heat. So there's pros and cons. You can either go into a hot race having done some heat acclimatization, but you might not have reached the intensity training because of the recovery needed, or you can reach the intensity in training, but go in a little bit under acclimatized. I, I think I would err more on the side of less acclimatization before the hot race, try to manage nutrition and hydration through the race more rather than compromise training in the lead up. So there's certainly, yeah, there's some things that you can do, but there's a balance. There's totally a balance you've got to get right.

You still managed to do a really good time in the heat. And would you put that down to getting that balance mostly right. Would you again? I guess in hindsight, would you have done a little bit less heat acclimatization? You felt like you handled the heat okay over there.

Yeah, I reckon I would have done less heat acclimatization before and tried to not wing it, but like, you know, just do more hydration cooling techniques before the race and during the race and just like go in knowing you're as fit as you can be and that you've ticked, you know, done everything that you can in training. That's probably what I would do more next time. I haven't done that with no heat acclimatization before. So I could like fall in a heap if I do it for one in the future, but that's probably what I would try. Yeah, for the next one.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but little were you to know that that would be your last competitive marathon for a few years. And what Ensued after. That was a big turn in your career. That was pretty devastating to watch from the outside.

Yeah, it was, yeah. That not only like for a few years, it was actually like seven years after that event. It took me to get back into the green and gold. So I had no idea what was ahead of me at the end of that race.

So take us through the story. I think I only know it anecdotally, but you were at a relatively just local race in Australia and um, went through standard drug testing protocol afterwards and then nightmare and followed.

Yeah, so I was aiming like, so 2016 was obviously an Olympic year and so I was, you know, wanting to put my best foot forward for Olympic selection and I targeted the Paris Marathon in April. And so in 2016, so working backwards from there being like a Australian summer and track season, I picked out the races that I was going to do in the lead up to the Paris Marathon. And one of them was a track race, a 5k track race down in Tasmania. And so I went down there, I did the race on. I did the race. It was like 8 o' clock at night. I was booked to fly out of Hazy on the last flight of the night. I think the program was a little bit delayed and whatever. So anyway, I finished Cross the line in a really unremarkable time. Like it wasn't even a very good race. And the drug testers came and got me and they said, you have to provide a sample. I said, sure, not a problem, I've got a plane to catch tonight. And they were like, that's okay. They actually looked into coming to the airport with me, which is what I thought when they chaperone you, which is what I thought they do anyway, they said they weren't allowed to leave. I provided part of a sample. So only enough for an A and they divide your sample into A and B. I provided enough for an A sample, left with the understanding that that was okay. And then, yeah, like the next six months unfolded. I ended up with a, a four year ban from the sport for providing only a part sample. So they tested what they had. It was clean. Yeah, I still got slept with four years. Yeah. The appeal process, I went down the appeal process. It was really sort of lengthy and a little bit convoluted as well. And it was reduced to two years eventually. But yeah, within the, the legal framework that athletes are, athletes are bound by, when you sign up to do sport, whether it's like local netball or running international team, you basically sign away all of your rights. And so in the legal framework that I was being trialed under was actually my barrister that said, you've got, you'd have more rights if you had murdered someone right now than what you do as an athlete. And your burden is to prove your innocence. It's not innocent until proven guilty. So he basically said, you're never going to walk away with nothing now that you're caught up in this. The best we can probably get to is two years, which is what we did get to. But yeah, then I had a two year ban from, from sport. And this was all happening when I thought I was like trying to qualify for the Olympics and then turns out I was banned.

Was it, was it a letter or was it a phone call or what?

It was a letter. So it was kind of like, it started with like, the first letter I received was a four year ban. And that like, literally took my breath away when I read that because, like I said, I was thought I was trying to get into an Olympic team and my life was like, designed to be an athlete. And, you know, my work was the way that I lived. The things that I did, like, was all around running. And so to be sent a letter to say that you were now banned from your sport, I was like, it took my breath away. And then everything from there was basically through, like correspondence, through the mail. But yeah, then when it was sort of when all the appeals finished, then I took it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and then it was heard through like a, like an arbitration hearing, which was in person. And then it probably took another six months or so from there before I found out what the outcome of that was. But while all of that was happening, my barrister was pretty sort of frank with me and said that you're not going to walk away with nothing. So I, yeah, applied for a job in China for 2017 with my school and so ended up moving over there at the beginning of 2017. And so then any information that I heard from there was just via email to just with the outcomes of the, the arbitration. So, yeah, it was a pretty impersonal kind of transactional experience. There wasn't really any support that was extended from my governing body or from asada, now known as sia, Sport Integrity Australia. So I had to lean on sort of my family and friends and I was a real misery, actually, for a while.

Wow, what a story. And the impact on you personally. As you said, you've got your life totally designed and geared in this direction and now you've been thrown completely. What were your initial thoughts Once you got the frankness from your barrister to say, look, it looks like you're not going to be able to compete for a few years here, did that take months, weeks? Did that take. How long did that take for you to try and change your tact in. What am I going to do now? What was your mindset there?

Yeah, I think it was a process. Like, I was pretty. Just sad and miserable for ages. Like, my friends would sort of invite me out and I'd be like, well, I'll come, but just as long as, you know that I'm miserable. So I was. It was just, you know, it was. I suppose that when the band, when it. When it was handed down, one of the. It was the beginning of me going on a journey to differentiate between purpose and identity and goal setting. And so, like, those things are all different. And whilst, like, I apply goals and challenge to the context of running, that's. Running is not who I am, it's something that I do. And I can, in fact, apply those things that, you know, are important to me, like setting goals and achieving and pushing your boundaries. I can actually apply. Apply those things to other contexts in my life. And so when I started to sort of, yeah, sort of find the difference between those things, that running was not my identity, it was something that I did. I was able to then look at other options and things that I could control that I could then apply those things that were really important to me and that I valued and, and, and wanted to do so. It was. But in saying that, like, that was a really internal kind thing at the time, because the stigma that, like, comes with being banned by Asada is, like the biggest challenge to my character and everything that I don't stand for. And so I just didn't want to talk to anyone about it. I was really embarrassed. I felt really ashamed that I was in this position. And, you know, I'm a sport teacher, PE teacher. At school, I had these young people that look up to me and, you know, here's Ms. Klein that's been banned by the drug, you know, body of their sport. It was just. Just that stigma I just really, yeah, carried with me. So it wasn't until there were some people in the athletic circle that learned about what was happening and they reached out to me and they were really supportive and sort of made me understand or made me see that people weren't necessarily going to see the situation I was in and judge me for it. They were going to empathize, you know, with me as well and. And understand so that then sort of when I realized that people could see it from my perspective as well, they made it much easier to talk about. And. Yeah, so then it just kind of was a bit of a process. Like, I spent the next year in China doing other things and jogging around a bit, but, like, doing things that I couldn't do or wouldn't do when I was, you know, in athlete mode. And then, yeah, that's sort of when that relationship and what running means to me kind of started to evolve a bit more as well.

Wow. It's such a journey that you've been on, and as much as a devastating thing to have happen, I feel you're so much stronger because of it. The way you're articulating how you managed to get through this without any help is incredible. And. And I feel so annoyed and upset that you had no support. It just makes me angry almost that you were having to go through this and no one from your circle of your sport has actually been there to help you emotionally. This would have been one of the hardest things you've ever had to deal with in your whole life. And it's a credit to the way you are where you are now. Knowing that story is amazing. What do I do now? You've sort of said I am a runner, but now I'm not. And how long did it take for you to realize that? I still want to be a runner, even though this has happened to me, because most people would go, well, you know what you can do with your.

Running, Go shove it.

That's right.

Clearly.

Clearly the love and passion you have for running has come through. And. And that's interesting.

Yeah, it's test. Like, it's tested my resolve, that's for sure. And that's when, you know. And one of the things, when I was banned, I would remind myself that even though you can't compete, like, you can still run, you're not injured, and you actually like the act of running, so, like, embrace that. And so, you know, being able to just jog in places that I want to jog and stop where I want to stop and, you know, use it to do some recreational things rather than, like, training and competing with something that I. I did a bit of when I was in China, but I also just didn't want my exit to be on someone else's terms. I wanted that to be on my terms. And the stubbornness of an athlete. Yeah, totally, totally. And there was a lot of, like, you know, I have put a lot of thought into this because as A distance athlete, you spend a lot of time in your own mind and so, like, make sense of it. But yeah, like, it was. I certainly deliberately did some things along the way to like, help me make sense of stuff and to, like, put it. Put different parts of it to bed so that I could move on.

Give us an example of. Of that.

Yeah. So I actually contacted ASADA and ended up going up to one of their. Their athlete wellbeing summits because they now have an athlete wellbeing arm. So maybe other people now have, you know, more support if they find themselves in this space. Because I wanted them to it because it was such a virtual transaction. There was. It was missing the human part. And I wanted them to see the human impact that these decisions were having on. On a person. And so I sat in this. In this conference room and had all the head SIA people in there. I was in there also with another former marathon runner that was banned from the sport for nine months. She had a illegal substance or a banned substance in her system. She was banned for nine months. And I was sitting next to another athlete who had been banned for four years, who had deliberately been doping because of the pressure he was feeling to compete at a high level. And then I was sitting there with a clean sample who had also been banned for four years. Anyway, I told them my side of the story and spoke about the impact that it had had on my life and you. And I looked them in their eyes when I was speaking and you could have heard a pin drop in. In that moment. But I just, like, that was for me, that was for me because I wanted them to see the impact that they had. And I walked out of there feeling like that wasn't, you know, another opportunity for me to, you know, put it to bed and to. To move on. So I don't, you know, I think they've done a couple of things since my situation to sort of, you know, so it doesn't unfold like it did again. So that will hopefully be beneficial for others. But yeah, in that moment, that was something that I walked away from thinking, I've said my. I've said my bit now and yeah, I can. I can put it to bed a little bit more.

What time was it when you decided? How long was it from. From the initial band to when you decided, I'm going to get back in and I'm going to show you these people because I want to run. Was there. Was that six months? Was that two years? Was that five years? Because you're out for A long time.

Yeah. So I. The ban was. The band was dated from 13th February 2016 and then ended on 13th February 2018. And I did it race actually the following weekend. So it was a Tuesday in 2018. I raced on the SAT day in this event that had been postponed from summer because of the hot weather. But I just thought I'm. I'm doing it because I can. So I went and went and did that and jeez, it was like, not pretty. But I just like. I never had the feeling like I wanted to give up. I didn't necessarily know what the. Where it was going to take me to, but I just knew that I wasn't ready to give it away. So I just kind of kept training, you know, doing a few races here and there. I was able to get started to get some more consistency with my training. I'd had a few injuries sort of from 24 by 2015 through to about 2018 or so. So my body started to sort of come, you know, come good. It felt a bit stronger. Like I said, I could get a bit more consistency. And yeah, I just started to get fit again. But I was really up against it because all the done marathon women in Australia just keep getting fitter and faster themselves. So it was kind of, you know, a little bit of an unknown. But given what I'd been through, it was not really driven by that external outcome. It was driven by my internal and wanting to go out on my own terms. So, yeah, it was.

Yeah.

Then we got a sniff of World Champs this year and that all came together.

I want to ask about the World Champs next was the last question on it. I mean, you're so willing to talk about it now and so open about it, which we and the listeners will appreciate so much. How do you feel looking back now, when you talk about it, when you think about it, you're obviously very calm about it internally, still negative emotions or you've just learned to let it go. And I mean, how do you manage it now?

Yeah, I think, like, I don't really harbor much like resentment or like revenge. I'm not kind of, you know, that would be not good for me. So I don't, you know, that's. I don't go down that path do I think it was. There's certainly learning that you can take away from that for me and for the, the powers that be. I think like, you know, I was able to make the most of the time and do other things with that time that have led to, you know that have added value to my life in other spaces. And when I say that, I probably mean professionally. Mostly it allowed me to go to China, which I wouldn't have done if I was still training, competing. That was a really, really good professional opportunity for me, which is probably translated into like the professional pathway that I've taken when I came back to Melbourne. And, and so like, I can see now in hindsight that it's played a role to build up other areas of my life. At the time it really sucked and I had to like, have faith that it was going to, you know, all make sense one day. Which is, you know, hard to do when you can't see that at the time. But yeah, now I, it's like, it's, it's part of the journey. It has led to where I am now. And, you know, I'm happy with all of those, you know, you know, professional space, athletic space. It is what it is for sure.

So you, you make it to the world Champs this year and I want to, I want to work out how we got there because 2018, you come back, your first race isn't pretty. The standard of Australian athletics overall has grown so much, let alone in a marathon. How do you, what are the steps from there? It's a four year journey. You know, most people would think, oh, well, you've made the Common games before. You've been, I think you were 23rd in 2015 at Beijing, so you're a top 20 marathon runner in the world. Of course you'll come back, but it's just not that easy. You know, you've had a couple of years off. It's 2018, it takes four years to get back to this level. So what, what happened between 2018 and 2022?

Yeah, I reckon so. 2018 and 2019, I still had some ups and downs with injury and it was at the end of 2019 that I did my build up after a bones stress injury a little bit differently. So I was like, look, this is, this is the last try. This is like the, you know, third bone stress injury in a row. I need, I'm going to do something different in this build up because I'm, you know, I've just been getting the same result, doing the same thing, so we're going to do something differently. So we did a much more gradual build up from the end of 2019 into 2020 and with lockdowns and all of that happening, it probably, you know, was beneficial in my build up because I wasn't really missing anything by Going a bit slow, slower. I actually had a fall on a training run in mid-2020 and landed heavily on my knee and broke my patella in. Cracked it in half. So that was. Slowed me down again. When was that? That was. Must have been. Actually it was 2021 because that was just over 12 months ago. And then. Yeah, that happened mid year in 2021. So. Sorry.

Horrifically painful, by the way.

2020, I had mostly a consistent year, but no racing really. And then I had that consistency through till 2021, mid year, that's when I fell and broke my patella. And then I was quite pretty fit when I broke my patella, but obviously had to take time off to let that heal. And it was, it was. Yet the term three school holiday is where I started training again in 2021. And so I Melbourne marathon had been postponed from October to December. My coach was a bit like, I don't know, you know, if you should do that or not. And I was on a run up at Fernie one morning, one Sunday morning actually, and I was thinking to myself, should I do the marathon? A bit underdone or should I not? And I thought to myself, there has not been a race on in Melbourne for two years. There's no way I'm not doing anything. So I'm. I told my coach, I don't, I don't care what you say, I'm doing it. So that's. Then we started gearing up for that. But in my coach's mind and in my mind as well, we knew that in 2022 there was going to be two major championships. So with the Olympics pushed out a year, it meant that they pushed out the world champs a year. So instead of them being in 21, they're in 22, which made them in the same year as a Commonwealth game. So we knew that there was always going to be six marathon spots up for grabs, three for each championship. And, you know, if you play your cards right, you never know what happens. You never know what's going to happen. So when I ran in Melbourne, I came fourth in that event. There were three Aussie girls ahead of me, Millie, Eloise and Marnie. And then you had the three girls from the Olympics that year who were also, you know, would have been ahead of me in selection as well. So we then, you know, had to go away, look at what the next race was going to be. I didn't want to travel overseas. That just seemed like too much hard work, just Covid and restrictions and whatever. So we targeted Newcastle Marathon. And I knew that Marnie, who beat me in Melbourne was going to be running in that event. So I knew that going into that to give me even a little bit of a chance, I had to run, um, I had to beat her in a head to head and I had to run faster than her to put me ahead of, you know, in the selector's eyes. So I went into that race knowing that she actually pulled out partway through the race. And I finished in a time at 2 hours 30, 50 something. And that's a PB, right?

At the time it was two men.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was because I ran a PB in Melbourne. 232. And then I PB again in Newcastle. 230 high. 230s. And then. And it wasn't quite a automatic qualifying time to have me automatically selected or automatically qualified for the World Champs. So then it became, you know, even more of a game of chess because where did the athletes want to go? Comm Games or World Champs? And so the faster girls, they obviously got preference and they all chose the Commonwealth Games, which left me vying for a spot on the World Champs team. And through a roll down. So they, that's. If you don't have an automatic qualifying time, they then do a roll down to the next fastest. And yeah, that's how I got my spot.

So take it back to Melbourne because you just scraped over the fact that you ran a PB there after starting in term three holidays. Those that don't know would be September. Um, so you're about, you're about what, 10 weeks, 12 weeks out from that Melbourne. That is a testament to something we talk about a lot in this podcast and that's that if you've got a base, even if you have a little bit of time off, you can get back there quickly. So you and your coach didn't know how you were going to go, but obviously you had that good fitness from 2020 and 2021 and that would have given you confidence in your body to go through that prep. And obviously it turned out well because you ran a PB in December.

Yeah, yeah, I think that like I, I'm a believer in that as well and, and muscle memory as well. Like when you got a base when it before, it's actually a really good foundation to, to do it again. So I was still able to get, you know, two good months of training in and consistency which, which was good. But I was also just. And that's going sort of going back to that competition Thing I just really wanted to get out there and like be amongst people and test myself against the other girls and yeah, just. And just do it because I choose to do it and because I wanted to do it. So it was. Yeah, I like, I probably had six to maybe eight weeks off. But in saying that I. Whenever I have injury, I will usually opt for a longer recovery but less immobilization. So I would be. I was on crutches for maybe a couple of days and then I would hobble around to try to keep, you know, the muscles still active and moving to avoid that waste. Because I think that like a couple of weeks of longer recovery versus wasting muscle, like again, it's a balance to achieve. And I err on the side of staying as active as I can to keep your, your muscles sort of moving rather than, yeah, having to build up that waste. If you go into immobilization, take us.

Into the couple of those races like the Melbourne December race where you ran a 232 and that was a quite a big PB. What was your race strategy with your coach? Having known that you were inj, you haven't pretty much raced, you know, a high level race for years. What was your race plan?

I had one of my training partners running with me. It was. What was our race plan? It was kind of just. I don't even think we had like splits that we were trying to hit. He. So in a marathon he would give me like 5k splits. I don't even remember what they were for that race. But it was more just about just trying to run consistently and that sort of. Yeah, it wasn't really we like I wanted to run a pb. That was the aim. I didn't really think that I'd run 232, but it was just sort of. Yeah. About running consistently through. Yeah. Across the distance. I think that's the. One of the hardest things to achieve in a marathon is that consistency and not getting too excited too early. So it was the focus. It was just about trying to run consistently. And like I said, I have my training partner there with me who was supposed to pull out but he ended up going the whole way, which was handy. But yeah, we didn't really like, we didn't break it down to 1k splits. And then when I was out there, I was trying to sort of not really like, I don't try, like I try to avoid looking at the clock too much because that can, you know, take your mind in places you don't want it to go. In a race. And so it was probably more just about running consistently and, and just being present.

Did you. Did you find that after the race when you looked at how your race panned out that you were evenly consistent or did you. Did you fade a little bit? Were you strong in the back half?

Yeah, no, I was pretty consistent. I think I was maybe 30 seconds slower in the second half. In. On reflection in that, from that event, I did think I could take. I could be more aggressive when I went to Newcastle. So like if, if someone were to say to me, could have you run faster in Melbourne? I don't think I could have. Like, I did everything that I could on the day. But I do think that in the later stages of the race when I thought I would die more, I didn't. And so going into Newcastle, I thought you can be a bit more aggressive. Yeah. And I had a little bit more confidence going into Newcastle.

Did you have a strategy then post Melbourne into Newcastle that you know, I'm going to attack this a little bit more. So I need to be a little bit more aggressive with my knowledge of what pace I'm running and, and obviously you had. You had a goal there as well to beat. Who was it? Marnie, was it?

Yeah, he. I didn't have necessarily a time goal. I thought that the World Champs automatic qualifier was a bit too ambitious. But I did, you know, want to run as close to 2:30 as possible. After Melbourne, I took, you know, it was probably almost two months. It was at least six weeks of, you know, jogging around and not doing much. So my build up for Newcastle kind of started from Zatopec. Actually. That was on Australia Day. That was when I sort of thought, you need to knuckle down a bit more. But yeah, I went into it and I did have more of an idea of Cape Pace in my mind. And I had another training partner actually run with me in Newcastle and he knew what the splits were that we wanted to. That we wanted to hit. And yeah, so going into that race there was. I. I did have a much more awareness of the case splits that I wanted to get and what those five case splits were in saying that I didn't look at my watch once during that race. My training partner Ben, who was running with me, he was looking at it and he was either saying, yep, you're on, or actually that's probably all he said, you're on.

That's good trust in him, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was it. That was all. I didn't look at My clock once.

And when you came with a 230, 40something 230 50, were you, were you going, wow?

Yeah. I was so bloody happy. And that was like. I remember because we sat, me, Ben, who ran with me and my coach, we sat at this pub that afternoon. Like I felt like, I just felt like absolute rubbish. I ended up like falling asleep on a park bench. I couldn't even sit in a pub. I said, guys, I have to go and lie down outside because I'm in so much discomfort. But we were sitting there obviously talking about the race and I just remember like we all were sort of saying, regardless of what happens now, we've done everything we can. I put my best foot forward. I'm really happy with the result. The rest is now out of my control. But I'm, I, I can't do anything more. And so that was a. Yeah, like that. I was really just, you know, I was just sitting there thinking, you just ran 2:30. Like that's pretty cool.

What was the timeline from Melbourne to Newcastle to Oregon?

So Melbourne was December 13, I think it was, or December 12. Newcastle was the 3rd of April and then Oregon was the 18th of July I think. So I think it's about eight months.

And how did you handle that in between period, not knowing if you're going to be selected? And then I think you have to wait pretty late until you found out you were selected. How do you handle the training and that? Build up to a world champs?

Yeah, yeah, I was pretty like I remember starting one. I didn't find out till three and a half weeks before race day that I was selected. So in marathon terms, like you are running your longest run three weeks before and then you kind of start to taper. So not ideal. However, we were training as if I was going so that I would be ready. But like I remember one. So my coach was riding the bike with me on a Wednesday afternoon on my midweek long run and I, you know, one week I kind of be like, this is ridiculous. Like they should be letting us know by now. The next week, you know, I'm saying this is, you know, this isn't just frustrating now. This is like detrimental to performance. Like it's really just starting to get annoying. And then the following week I'm arms up again and he's like, oh great, I'm gonna have to listen to this for the next 30 minutes. I was like, 30 minutes. This room goes for 90 minutes. You're gonna hear about it the whole time. Like, so I was, I was Pretty irritated. But once I found out then it was kind of, you know, all steam ahead.

You said something earlier that you completely rethought the way you'd been training because you were getting the same results. What was something that you did different that you look back on now and go, I know it's always very difficult to say that is the reason and we say this a lot in our coaching. It's never one reason. It's a combination of a lot of things. Is there something that you think that really made a difference that you changed that made you from a 235 to a 232 to a 230? You know you, you're rapid, you know you were 237 runner in 2015. It's a, it's a big chunk.

The. So my, when I'm in training, my training is pretty standard. So it has all the, the nuts and bolts that like a marathon runner will have had from, you know, your long run, your midweek long run, your quarters, fartlek, etc. The bit that I did. So a couple of things that I did differently. One was in the build up from injury. So instead of sticking to my seven day structure, I listened to my body more and worked more on a day, on day off, two days on, two days off. Kind of model to training which doesn't fit neatly into seven days, which can sometimes be like the people who like routine and whatever can sometimes just be annoying. But I had to be a bit more flexible around that. And I also don't run on a Friday anymore. So prior, yeah, probably up until 2019 or so I was running every day during the week and then now I don't run Fridays and that's been something that has. I don't know if that's this, if that's a silver bullet or whatever, but it is one thing that I've changed just to allow my body to absorb and like have time off feet at least once a week. And yeah, like that, that's. I don't know if that's, you know, what it contributes, but I think it contributes something. My training has been relatively consistent though in terms of like the, the major blocks in each week.

Did you replace Friday with anything or is it complete rest day?

No, it's a complete rest day. Like sometimes I'll go for a walk and listen to a podcast. But yeah, no, I don't really. It's just, it's just a average day.

And so can you give us a snapshot of what was Your week of training, what did it look like four to five weeks out when you were. Yeah. Ideally you assumed or hoped that you would be picked, but you were training as if you were going. So what did that week look like from Monday to Sunday for those that don't know what a marathon week looks like?

Yeah. So I'll start with a Sunday. Sunday is like staple. Staple day for marathon training, long run. And that would be. I do that out in the Dandenongs and that gets up to maybe 34 kilometers or so around about two and a half hours. Monday is a, like a sort of a steady continuous run. So 70 minutes, that's about 17 kilometers or so. Tuesday morning run, so 8k in the morning and then a session in the afternoon. And that session would be sort of 1k reps. Wednesday, are you doing those.

1K reps and what volume do you work up to?

Like 3:18, 3:19s, 3:20.

Just above race pace.

Y. Yeah, yeah. And then one minute recovery between them. Wednesdays would be midweek long run, so about 90 minutes, about 23K. So trying to sit on sort of 4 minute K pace, Would that be.

An undulating run or would that be on the flat?

Mostly on the flat. That one Monday is more undulating where I run that Wednesday run in the build up to Eugene, because I was meeting my coach so he could come on the bike was pretty flat, although it was. It was kind of a. It had a few turns in it. It was a bike path and you had lots of bridges to go over and turns and stuff. So. But mostly flight. And then Thursday is.

Is 4 minute K pace. What kind of heart rate is that for you in comparison? Is that quite comfortable or is that just above kind of a comfortable run? What's the goal there?

Yeah, I think it's probably quite comfortable. Like I don't sort of go. I know that I'm like, I am consciously trying to have a steady pace, but I'm not like racing in.

Because you could complain to your coach. So you could obviously talk.

Yeah, well, that's right. And I was talking, so I don't know what my heart rate was. I don't really like measure that reliably. But yeah, like it's. It is consciously a steady run, but it's not like I'm not racing it. And you know, in a marathon training program, the strength is doing all of it. Not like one run super fast and then not being able to back it up the next day. So it was, yeah, consciously steady but not like race Pace and then Thursday another double run. So 8k in the morning and then usually like a track session in the afternoon. So four hundreds or quarters, Friday day off, Saturday morning sort of longer reps, like 10 minute, 5 minute reps, second run in the afternoon and then back to Sunday.

Were there many competition days in amongst that period? Did you have, you know, did you go and do some 10ks or some half marathons or some 5ks or did you just keep the consistency going with the method you've just described?

I did. So I'm pretty sure leading up to that, given it was April, I did a couple of 5k track races. So they were Thursdays mostly, honestly, but I didn't taper for those. They were just. Instead of my track session that was leading up to Newcastle, going in between Newcastle and Eugene, there wasn't a lot of races on that I wanted to do. I didn't want to do cross country because my body's not quite as like doesn't like bounce back so quickly from like hurdling fences and slippery surfaces. So I didn't want to hurt myself. But I did do a, a 10k time trial with training partner and then I did the Gold Coast 10k two weeks before, two weeks before the marathon. So that was, that was good, that was good time. It was a good sort of like sharpen up and then, you know, went into the taper and got ready for race day.

Amazing. Quick shout out to the Danny Nongs and Fernie Creek or also known as Fernie Creek, what you mentioned, we talk about it a lot on this podcast. We actually grew up in the Dandenongs and it is the Mecca for long distance runners, marathon runners, it has been for decades. So I love that that is a cornerstone of your program heading up there Sunday.

Yeah, great.

Yeah, it's so good up there. And that leads us to race day, the world champs. You get to represent yourself in the green and gold again. Which yes, seven years later, you probably couldn't believe that that was going to happen after. And then even in the, in the lead up, you weren't even sure it was going to happen. It must have been. Did you take a moment to appreciate the fact that you, you'd come that far and come full circle?

Yeah, I did. And like I think I did it every day actually while I was away and just tried to be present again and enjoy the moment and like take it all in and to be grateful as well. Like there were, you know, people, Australian team, people there that knew what I'd been Through and, you know, we've spoken about the support or lack thereof. And even with that aside, I still just wanted to be grateful for, like, to be there and to be doing what I was doing. So that was sort of, you know, where my mind was at. And then on race morning, obviously nervous, but there was a moment where I said to myself, like, you've chosen this. This is what you've been trying to get back to. And so, again, just trying to, like, be present and enjoy the moment and, yeah, like, have confidence in the training that I'd done and where I was at and. And to just get out there and. And just do it. It was kind of like being over in, like, the Australian team can sometimes be a little bit. I'll use the word intimidating because you surrounded by all of these, like, you know, athlete prodigies and, you know, people that have done all these amazing things. And so to be over there, you know, my comfort place was out when I'm running, and so, you know, doing what I know how to do, doing what I was chosen to be there to do. And so when the gun goes, you're kind of down. Like, you're in your happy place. And like, the. Doing the thing that you know how to do. And so, yeah, like, it was. I was just trying to be in the moment and grateful.

Yeah, that's. It's so good to hear that. And, boy, that it's such a great story from where you've come from to actually get to put the grain of gold back on again and not be bitter and twisted about it. I just can't believe how gracious you are about the whole process. And it's a great example to everybody listening to this about taking opportunities when they arise and looking for positives out of a shocking situation. You've done that so well. Tell us now. The race is about to start. What's your strategy now? We've asked you about previous strategies and races. This is the. This is the big dance. You're here at the world championships with the best runners assembled in that year for that. For that event. What were you. What was your mindset and what were your thought processes? You didn't have Ben to run beside you today. How are you gonna. How are you gonna cope with your strategy here?

I want to know if you look. If you looked at your watch.

Yeah, I. So I'm pretty, like. Because I like to. I. I think one of my strengths as a marathon runner is that I can run a consistent race. And so when I. When the gun goes I'm not one to get like sucked into a three minute K and then, you know, to have that come back and bite me later in the race. And so about sort of a kilometer in, there was a bunch of girls ahead of me, maybe 25 meters or so. And I was kind of in no man's land by myself. But after 2km I was back in the pack and we were running a good pace together. Like we were sort of on 3, 33, 31 pace. And we were together then for. Until about 24, 25k I think it was. And so that was like really fun. Like it's not very often that, you know, as a female you get to run with other females at the same pace for such a long distance. So it was kind of just like a, you know, big black, you know, squad run. It was, it was cool and it was interesting because you have like all these other countries there. And so some of the coaches that like ride along on their bikes are super intense and you don't know what they're saying and kind of sounds a bit like abuse and whatever. But it's, you know, it was just fun to like run in a big pack with other, other women. Like, it's usually either boys or, you know, I've done so many Sunday runs by myself, so it was just good to be able to do that. And then, yeah, it was kind of, it was the, it was a 25k drink bottle Mark and because when they had the drink bottle set up, they've got them in alphabetical order and so Australia comes first. And so every time we were running into a drink bottle station, I was trying to get to the front of the pack so I could get my bottle first and then get out of the way. And I was noticing in previous like in the drink bottle stops before 25, that it was, I don't know what was going on behind me, but because I was getting my bottle first, I was sort of ended like finding myself at the front of the pack after going through the drink bottle stations. And so when I went through 25, I. Again, I don't know what happened behind me, but I kind of found myself like at the front and no one was with me and I just thought, I'm gonna keep going. So we, yeah, I just kind of pushed the pace a little bit from 25. Yeah, onwards. And there were two other girls that went with me. It was a Canadian girl and a Bulgarian girl. And when we got to maybe 30k or so, they got in front of me and I Was like, oh, no, you're black. You've made a big mistake here. But I just, yeah, like, tried to. I had some family on the, on the course. I was just like leaning on them. The Australian team, they were out there sort of cheering me along and it like came down to just like grit and counting down the k's, those last sort of 6k or so, just to really grind it out because I was like, I was making like noises out loud in the last kilometer because I was in so much pain. But yeah, it was, it was, that was tough.

But we got there and you're too modest. But you ended up coming 14th in the world.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the conditions there were 13th, was.

It 13th or 14th?

Was it 14th?

14Th. Yeah, 14th. 14th. Yeah.

And the conditions, the conditions weren't favorable. Being quite a hot race. And your time. Yeah. Tell us how proud you are of that, that, of that result.

Yeah, the conditions. So it was, it was direct sun, but it was pretty early morning, so it was pretty chilly when we started. But the direct sun warmed up, so we warmed up pretty quickly. The time. Yeah, so it was a PB again, it was 2:30 and 9 seconds. So I just missed going under 2 hours 30. But you know, there's not a lot of athletes that run PBS in the major championship. So to be able to do that is always like, like a really great thing. I. Yeah. And so I was really proud to be able to do that on that stage. I was proud to be able to do that for all of, like, my friends and family, my coach and my workplace that have, like, been in my corner through all the ups and downs. So to be able to like take them on that journey and share that with them too was. Was like, really fulfilling. But yeah, it was. Yeah, in the 14th, like, that was. I made up all those spots really, like, or a lot of spots in the third lap because the marathon was three laps. And when I finished, I like, I kind of thought top 20 would be best case scenario. And so to finish 14th, I was just kind of like, like, I can't believe you just did that sort of thing. And you know, when you look at Australian women's marathon running in the World Championships, it's actually the second best placed Aussie ever. So chess Trengo came ninth in 2017 and then I've finished 14th and then the next girls, and you've got athletes like Sinead Diver and Lisa Whiteman and Karen McCann that yet haven't placed better than 14. So that was, that was pretty. That was A pretty cool thing, too.

And there's a great video of you embracing your coach after the race. You've been with the same coach for, I think, 20 years or so. That must have been a pretty special moment. Again, coming full circle to what you've been through to there.

Yeah, yeah. So on the Australian team, we had the longest coach, athlete relationship out of any athlete and coach on the team. Yeah, he has been my coach for ages, but, you know, he has been one of those people that have, like, really copped my misery and had to ride those waves. And so, yeah, to be. To be able to share that with him, knowing everything that we've been through and to, yeah, have that sort of performance on that stage was just. Just really, like, rewarding and fulfilling and like a moment full of pride. So it was, yeah, just a long time in the making. Like years in the making of just like rock, you know, coming back again and again and again. And then we made it. And so that was. That was really good.

What things can you tell the average person who goes through highs and lows of from the journey that you've been on? What are the most outstanding things that you think you've learned about yourself and you've been able to apply to your work as a teacher, as a runner, as a parent, as a friend? What are the things you've been through this incredible journey? The people out there listening, I think they'll be amazed at what they've heard in the last hour. But. But what are the things that you think you've learned out of this whole journey? And the journey's not finished yet. You've still got more to give. I sense that. Tell us what you think is your strengths now that you've learned because of what's happened to you?

I think there's a couple of things. Firstly, just keep going. You just don't stop. You just have to keep going. I think also you've got to find your why. Like, if you're going to be doing these things and wanting to achieve something or spend so much time doing something, you need to know what your why is. And it's got to be your own, not someone else's. And I also, like, you need to actively look for the silver lining sometimes. Like, you have to be able to, like, reframe shitty things to find a silver lining. And, like, we control that narrative. We control what we tell ourselves. And we can either tell ourselves things that are helpful or things that aren't. And so being able to, like, catch that negative story and turn it into like find a silver lining and change what we tell ourselves. I think is like something else I've had to become good at too. But keep going. You just like, just don't stop.

I like that. I don't know if you watched the Ned Brockman stuff in the last month, but that was his message. Every day is just keep showing up. And I just resonate with that message so much. I really like that.

I haven't seen it. I'm writing it down.

Okay. Yeah, he just ran from Perth to Sydney, which is quite remarkable. He ran an ultra marathon every day. Yeah, it was ridiculous. Anyway, I'm conscious of your time. We might finish the episode there. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It really takes a lot for you to open up like that and be willing to. And willing to share it with exactly what you said, with the stigma that could come with it and the process you went through. You might just want to shut that book and never tell it again, but you telling it is so inspiring for us and so many people to hear. And as always, we have so many more questions we would like to ask about your race day nutrition plan and taper and everything. But your story so far was absolutely great. I want to remind listeners that you've done this and you've come 14th in the world while working full time in a great job that you got from, like you said, that opportunity that this presented. So you must be proud of that as well. The fact that you're competing against full time athletes here and you've done so well.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. And it's cool being so. I'm a teacher for those listening and yeah, to be able to come back from the championships, you know, the staff room was decorated in green and gold. My office had been bombed by green and bl. Green and gold. And, you know, the students were all just super supportive and keen to hear about it. So that was a pretty special. It was pretty special to be able to do that as well.

It's a great credit too, isn't it, to the school that stuck by you? Because that stigma that they would have felt, I suppose, you know, logically with having one of their employees who's just been banned, it would have been easy for them to say, you know, we can't have you teaching anymore. Yet the full circle of the trust that they've. The belief they have in you is amazing because they've stuck by you and look at you. The reward, not that you did it for them, but that's, you know, They've done a good job supporting you along that journey. It's just a fantastic story. I really so grateful you can come on and, and, and share it so openly. And we just can't wait to see. And that would be a question. Quickly, what's next?

Well, like, there's always plan A and then plan B and plan C, but plan A is to do a couple of track races over the next few months into Zatopec and then to head over to Japan in March next year to do another marathon. They've made the qualifying time for the world champs next year even harder. So it's now 2:28. So that's sort of the benchmark. And then, yeah, I want to put my best foot forward for that and see if I can, yeah, make it, make another team next year. So that's plan A, but we'll see how it unfolds.

Thank you so much again, Sarah, for coming on. We absolutely appreciate you sharing this. We know that the listeners will love it. So thank you very much for your story and good luck with plan A. We really, everyone will be watching you to see how you go now.

Yeah, great. Thank you very much for your time and for having me share my story.

That's it for this episode. Thank you very much, as always for listening and we'll see you on the next one.