Getting The BEST Out Of Your Bike

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo coaching, Jared Donnelly. In today's podcast episode, we are talking about getting the best out of your bike. And to help us, we have a very special guest here in the studio, a friend of Trivelo, Mr. Dave Ross. Now, Rossi, I'm just going to let the audience know a little bit about you and some of your accolades, and I know you won't like that, but not only are you a bike expert, but you're also one of Trevalo's most successful athletes, been a two times Masters TT champion. So you know a thing or two about going fast, getting aero on top of all things bike related and bike mechanic related. So on that note, Rossy, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

No worries. So we, we've been starting our podcast lately with Gratitudes. So, dad, welcome to the episode to U2.

Thanks, Jordan. Welcome, Rossi. It's great to have you on board, mate. And the listeners are going to absolutely love your gems today, believe me, I hope so.

So we, we'll get Rossi involved in the, in the Gratitudes as well. But you can start, dad, with what are you grateful for?

Yeah, look, I had, I've got a bit of a list happening now and it's a matter of ticking them off. But the one thing I'm absolutely grateful for when I look around the world is that how lucky are we to live in Australia and we can live our lives normally and there's very few other countries in the world who can say that. Right now, New Zealand's probably the only other country. So definitely I'm grateful to be an Australian and to live in Australia and the way we've handled the last year with the COVID pandemic. And yeah, I just cannot be more grateful to be fortunate to be an Australian living in, in such normal conditions and hopefully that continues.

I might take your second one then, because you said this morning how grateful you are to be able to train no matter what the weather is indoors and we can get sick of the trainer, but the fact that if it's freezing throughout winter, as we're just getting into the winter months here in Melbourne, you can train indoors. I am also grateful for that because it just gives you that option when you just don't want to go outside and you can't jump on the trainer.

Awesome.

That's my one. Rossi. It's tough to put a guest on the spot and get. Get a gratitude, but give us a gratitude.

Keeping on theme. Mine's a little bit sort of Trivella related, but after having a bit of an injury for the past six months, now, the Trivala community, particularly Ian Wang, who's a neurosurgeon. Neurosurgeon. One phone call from Gerry, then Ian rang me and we're on track with getting sort of an injury issue which has been plaguing me for six months now, on track. So it just goes to show that there's. There's such depth and such care within the trivelo community. So that's what I'm hugely grateful for.

Yeah, yeah. We didn't just serve our nose, we didn't ask Rossi to say that we didn't pay him to pay to pump up the Trivelo community, but thanks for that. It's a good gratitude. All right, let's get into the episode, Getting the Best out of youf Bike. And this is a really good one because a lot of us, you know, have these quite advanced and expensive bikes, but have no idea how they work or how to actually make them get the best out of them. So this is going to be a really good episode to help clear some things up about some of the intricacies of your bike. And, Dad, I think you wanted to start with the first question, which is a real, real good one.

Yeah, well, I suppose, Rossy, if I came into the bike shop, or before I came into the bike shop, I wanted to take up cycling or I wanted to take up triathlon, and, you know, there's hundreds of people in this position who absolutely have no knowledge about any of the details about what bike to buy, what's suitable to me, and what should I be looking for. So my first question, I suppose, is what would be the order of the way you would think about purchasing your new bike, your new TT bike or your new road bike? It doesn't matter. But what things should I be really thinking about in the order that is important?

It's a bit of a chain of events. The first, for me personally, the most important part is finding the right bike that fits you the best and finding that bike that fits what you want to achieve the best. Now, what I mean by that is finding, first of all, geometry wise, what's going to work for your position the best, and then from there, tailoring that to, okay, well, you know, my goal is three peaks. Well, I'm not going to look and go down the avenue of finding the most aero, stiffest, fastest bike for that, because it's not going to tailor to what I want to do riding wise. Then from there finding bang for buck the best bike within your budget. The bike that's got the most suitable componentry on it, particularly maybe gear range, is it disc, non disc. And then from there, for me, it's the last one's. Probably the most controversial is finding the bike which you just love the most. You know, if you love the bike, you're going to want to ride it more, which is end goal, what you want. So, yeah, for me, position, fit, componentry and style of bike. And then what you love the look of tricky order because, you know, most people look at a bike and they go, oh, that bike is awesome, I want that bike, I need to have that bike. And then the person within the shop should particularly, you know, tailor and say, well, you're not going to be very comfortable on that bike. It's not quite suited for what you want to do, but if you love the look of it, sure.

So it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I'm the same. I really like that bike. Why do I like it? It's normally because of the paint colour.

Yeah.

The paint job on it looks spectacular and that is the least important thing to be looking for. But that's what I want.

Correct.

And look, when you buy a car, it's the same thing. I really like that colour of that car. But why do we think like that? It's just so. It's so not helpful.

Yeah. And look, you can tailor certain bikes to, to suit you better if that's the one you have your heart set on. We always come up with this issue within a store of people walk in and they just love the look of the propel and that's the one they want. It's fast, it's tough looking, it's really big and bulky and beefy. But they're a rider who spends 90% of the time up in the danongs or up in the hills or on backcountry roads, that sort of thing, where it's not going to give you the greatest ride experience for that. Sure, if you're on beach road the whole time, no problems, and they should really be going down the path of a tcr, which you come across that with all different brands, you've got different models, but it's finding the right bike for you and the bike fitting you well rather than you squeezing onto A bike which particularly isn't meant for you.

Because we know that I could be 170cm and the guy next to me is 170cm, but the length from his foot to his pelvis could be, you know, four centimeters different to mine and my upper body, torso could be different. So you could have the same height person with completely different requirements for 100.

Correct. You know, brands do their best to offer a sizing chart and you know, generalize that basically so that the general public get an idea of, oh, well, I should be on a medium or I should be on a large. But you, within a store or from a bike fit perspective, you kind of almost need to ignore that. You know, people have different body geometries, they've got different heights, I've got different shapes. I'm a key example of that in terms of I'm 186cm tall. I should fit a medium large or a large road bike. I actually ride an extra large because I've got really long legs for how tall I am and I just can't squeeze onto those ones because the handlebar drop is just too extreme for me, too aggressive. So, yeah, it's taking the time to really understand and knowing what sort of bike you want, what sort of bike's going to fit you well so that you get the most out of your. Your riding.

Yeah, so it's a classic because Jordan, you fitted Jordan and we first of all had him thinking on a small or medium and you've got him on a medium large.

Yep.

And. And I was shocked at Jordan's not overly tall. What are you, Jordan?

177, I think, approximately.

And yeah, so you're right. It's so determined by the different lengths of your body.

And that's also a good thing to talk about. Geometry changes and componentry changes over the years. Giant released a new TCR this year which had very small changes to the geometry. But a big change was that the bike's now coming with a negative 10 degree stem, as opposed to a negative 8 degree stem. So all of a sudden they've created the bike being a bit more aggressive. So the handlebar drops a little bit lower, which you need to take all of that into consideration. Certainly, unless you're 100% confident, you need to jump on a bike, on a trainer in the store and get a real good understanding of what's going to fit you and then go down that route. You know, I'd love to ride a propel. I don't fit to a propel. Very well. So I don't ride a propel.

So, yeah, I suppose that I don't. You might have a question, but we're going to line these questions up for Rossi, but I suppose that's the hard part for the. For the new rider. And look, I'm talking about the experienced rider as well. They, you know, you try before you buy. Doesn't happen with a new bike. And. And that's kind of hard because you're buying on advice rather than actual trying it. And, you know, when you buy a new car, you get to test drive it.

Yep. It makes it really, really hard. And it makes it difficult, particularly with our range, because in the upper end, we've got the integrated seat post system, which, you know, it needs to be cut and trimmed to the exact millimeter. And you don't stuff around with it or else you'll have an expensive bill. But my advice is like anything, do your research. You know, read reviews. There's always great reviews out there. Speak to your mates who have different bikes, and that's regardless of whether it's a giant or, you know, an envy set of wheels. There's so much information out there. Read about it.

That's also why we've got you in, though, because there is so much. It can get a little bit confusing. And I want to take it back a little bit one step, because it would be surprising to people that if we looked at those three major categories of purchasing or getting a bike, the price and what you love is actually not number one. You're saying the position is number one, and then what's going to be good for your bang, for your buck? I thought. I really like that terminology, is number two. And then all the extra components, that kind of thing is probably coming third, if we look at your position, if someone's already got a bike, what's a. This is going to be a little bit hard to answer because it's quite general question, but what is a general overview or some advice you can give about whether someone can look at themselves on the bike and go, I'm in a good or not good position right now.

Complex question, because you. We see it all the time. You know, guys who have had the exact same position for the past 10 years, they haven't changed it at all to the millimeter. And there's a lot to be said about the term, if it's not broken, don't fix it. You know, and then all of a sudden, they jump onto a new bike and the seat might be a millimeter higher. Or, you know, they've gone from a traditional, you know, 30 centimeter long saddle and now they're on a more modern, shorter, wider, wider saddle. You know, you get different positions and different fits. So there's a lot of, there's a lot with that. My advice is you can't fit yourself. A lot of people try, but you can't do it. We're in a very, very lucky part of the world where we've got a ton of incredibly good fitters, very experienced fitters. Spend the time, spend the money, go and see a professional. You know, there's, there's a lot in Melbourne who are very, very good before you buy your bike, because they'll tell you straight away that, look, I understand that you love the look of that bike, but it's not the right one for you. And at the end of the day, you can spend $15,000 on a bike you love the look of it. If it's not the right size and the right style of bike for you, but the $4,000 one is, and it fits you perfectly and it's the right style and you get on it and you're just comfortable and it's efficient for you, then that's the better bike. So that's what price is kind of secondary. You need to get that right model that fits you well so you enjoy the cycling experience and then go from there.

That's also a really good point because it means that the most expensive isn't necessarily always the best. So.

Yeah, correct.

Yep, that's really good. Also, in their coaching business, I have people asking me specifically because, you know, Giant are part of our business and we've said that right from the outset and we're not trying to, to guide you away from your love of any brand. We want to make sure that you get the bike you want. But the example I'm going to use is Giant have two particular bikes, the Propel and the tcr. And a lot of the guys in our coaching business are asking me all the time, Jarrod, which bike should I get? And the answer to that is depends on the goals.

What style of rider are you? If you're just know, just getting through winter and then racing the crit season flat out through summer, then Propel is probably going to be a better option for you. If it, if it fits you well, if you're doing a whole array of different events, whether it's, you know, the Criterium series, a bit of road racing, you know, some of the Fondos, Amy's or three Peaks, then potentially TCR is going to be a better bike for you. If they both fit you well, then there's another argument of go for the one you love the most because you'll be more inclined to ride it. But just think about the different styles of bikes. You know, Propel is incredibly aero, super fast, super stiff. Yes. You can tailor it, soften it, change out the wheels and put some different tyres on to make it a bit more of a softer riding bike. But the tcr, the new format, is incredibly good. It's super quick, it's light, it's aero, it's comfortable, it's a beautiful bike to ride. So it really comes down to the style of riding you're doing.

That's a great answer. And, and that's. I'm trying to say that to the guys asking me that question without getting them to bug you with that question, but that is exactly right. And the general, the, you know, as, as masters writers, triathletes or masters bike riders, we generally do everything. We do a bit of crit racing, we do some time trialing, we do some grand fondos, we do some road races, we do some training in the hills.

Well, the easier answer is you'd have one of each, right?

Yes.

We are talking budget and not everybody can do that.

So.

That is straight away, the first answer to that question is get both. Yeah, but, but, yeah. Then I say, well, you need a time trial bike as well. And. Yeah, but I'm not a time trialist. Well, you should be.

You're not yet.

You're not yet. So. So that's a great answer.

So staying on position. I have two more questions on this. Getting a little bit more specific. You are forever telling me, relax your shoulders, Jordan, get your shoulders down. What are some key things that you could just say to someone? Like, here are some key parts of the position that you want to be thinking about to be in a good position on the bike and even narrow that down further to a TT position as well.

TT is more technical and it's a little bit harder to get right. And I suppose we need to be very, very clear on time trial and triathlon, they're both very different. The easy way for me to describe that is think about a balloon in a vice, which we're at time trialing here. You kind of want to turn that handle on the vice more and more and more just until that balloon is about to burst. Now, we're talking about the extreme side of things, right? Because what you're trying to do is reduce Your cda. So your CDA being basically essentially the drag of the body and bike against air to a point of where you're as efficient as possible. Now you need to also balance that with being able to breathe, being able to push good power, being able to see where you're going. You know, sometimes you're going pretty quick, so it can get kind of dangerous. But it's reducing all of that as much as possible to get the fastest result, regardless of whether it's a 10k TT or a 90k TT within a half ironman. Now that's very, very different to a triathlon based position. Yeah, you want to take good elements from that and use that in triathlon. But the reality with triathlon compared to tts, you haven't swam in a tt, you don't have to run off the bike in a tt. So you kind of almost want to relax those to a certain degree. Now there's a handful of good guys and a handful of sort of pros who are very, very close to having a time trial based position on a tri bike. That's not the normal range of people like us humans. So there's two things with that tt. It's about reducing your size essentially. Think about getting as small as possible. Think about your head position. You want to get that as low as possible. What I mean by head position, I'm not talking about shoulders and torso, I'm just talking about tucking that head in to reduce that drag across the top. There's a lot to be said about getting narrow as well. Rolling your shoulders forward, tucking them forward, getting your hands high as well. The data backs up. That 30 degree forearm with sort of a slight bend in the wrist at the end is about as efficient and fast as possible. But it's, it's kind of tricky. The best thing which I can suggest is go to a pro fitter, get fitted first. Now a lot of guys will go from A to Z in one fitting because, you know, it's not cheap, it's quite expensive, it's quite time, you know, intensive. And some guys will and girls will come away from that and be like, I cannot ride this position, it's too aggressive, it's too hard. But it's something to work towards. So you might need to relax that and go, okay, well I was at a, I'm now at zed. Let's find some middle ground or maybe two steps in between and build to that position. Furthermore, with that, the best way to practice that, my opinion is either on the rollers or on the trainer at home. You know, most tribalo athletes have a recovery session, whether it's, you know, four by five minutes or whatever it is. They're the times to really work on that and practice that position and technique so that when you do get on the road, it becomes second nature. There's always a bit of a conditioning period with it and working towards being able to hold that full time. Now, the same can be said for a tri position, but typically you want to relax that a little bit so you can get off and run very well. But the principles are the same. Get the head down, roll the shoulders in, but just not as aggressive as a TT position. The other hard part, which we haven't spoken about, is time trialling. We have a lot of rules that we need to sort of abide by with UCI standards which make it incredibly difficult for a certain height range to make work for them. So that can make it tricky as well.

Interesting. There's a whole lot of things you brought up what I had questions on. And when I look back at 2011, Cadell Evans time trial position, and he actually won the time trial just at the bottom of Alpe d' Huez there, there's a circuit where I was actually at the race that day and the position he has is his hands are almost 45 degrees to his upper body and at that particular time he was the best time trialer in the race. And I just look at that position now and go, that's just not efficient to me, from what I know now. Is that, is that a fair comment?

Yeah, I think so. And could he been.

Could he have been better?

Look, I mean, hard to say, you know, I'm not an error expert with that sort of thing, but when we say 30 degree angle, that's, that's a general data set across a lot of different people. Now, I think if you were to handball, you know, an image like that, to two modern experts, they, they almost laugh and say he's just lost so much time. But then having said that, there's certain positions which, you know, Jan Frodeno is another guy who has a very, very different position compared to, I guess, modern fits. Fabian Cancelaro is the same. So it's about finding the balance as to what works for you, similar to what we're saying, you know, get your body in the right position and make the bike fit that. So generally narrow is fast. A lot of guys get caught up with having a completely slammed front end and riding as low as possible. But then what we typically see is if they're riding that low in the front, you know, they can't see where they're going, so they're lifting their head up, which creates even more drag.

Defeats the purpose. Correct.

And then you're also shutting down your legs a little bit with that, so you can't pedal as well. So it's about finding that balance of, okay, I can ride this low, but I'm still able to breathe well. I can hold a good head position and, you know, I can pedal well. So there's a, there's a bit with it. But going back to, I guess, Cadell, who knows, one of the experts, I think he just pedaled on brute force and was incredibly strong.

Jordan and I have talked about this a lot over the years from the bikes we. That I rode in the 80s compared to what, what's happening now. And, and, you know, Jordan's asked me, you know, do you think you could ride faster now, you know, 40 years older than you were as a 20 year old, given a different bike? And my answer is absolutely.

Oh, totally. Look, I mean, most people say, well, most experts are saying that anywhere from sort of 68 to about 80% of your overall drag is from your body. So, you know, it depends on how you were riding back then as well, but I would almost guarantee it'd be a lot faster. And also on a bike which, which is probably three, four kilos lighter, well.

We have proven it, it is faster. It's a 62 year old than a 28 year old. So that, to me is. That shows you the importance of what we're talking about in this podcast is, you know, it's great to have a modern bike, which we've already determined that, you know, that's what we've talked about earlier. But now this position on that bike is key. And I guarantee had I had a better position in the 80s on the bike that I had, I would have been faster, but I just didn't have a good bike fit.

And not just faster. Your potential would have gotten off and ran better.

Yes.

You know, that's another big part which people forget about and don't pay enough attention to, is that you can have a really quick, fast, slippery position on the bike, especially on the triathlon, but you still have to get off and run. And at the end of the day, you need to be able to get to that point of transition, get off the bike and be fresh enough to run really well normally. Yeah.

And what you said before about the angle, like, if you've got the front handlebars Smashed on the bottom. So your elbow pads are on the base bar of the handlebars. Your angle of your hips are going to be so tight that your knees are probably going to be touching your elbows. And as you said before, you can hardly breathe because you're, they're things that are probably going to make the thing such an uncomfortable. But when you get off to run that position, tight hip position that you've been sitting in, is the detrimental to your running?

Correct.

And so you might improve a minute or two in that position, but it might cost you five minutes as a runner because you can't actually stand up for the first 10 minutes.

Yeah. And that's where there needs to be more talk and clear thought process behind. Okay, what are we trying to achieve? A time trial position or a triathlon position? Because they're both very, very different, you know, and you achieve different things from them.

So that's a great point because, you know, having, you know, yourself and myself have just done time trialing for the sake of being as efficient and fast as possible and not worried about having to run so we can be so much more aggressive.

Yep.

And, and I've come from the triathlon background to this new way of being aggressive. And, and when I got my bike fit it, I think it took me six months. I went backwards. And that's the, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is, you know, people need to understand that, that when you get a new position, it not necessarily will improve you straight away.

You went so far backwards that you were genuinely embarrassed at your results and you, you, it's not that you didn't want to race, but you were not enjoying racing at all because you've just gone so far backwards.

And my advice when I inquired as to what the is happening with my time trialing was you need to stick with the process and, and let your body adapt to the new position. Is that something that.

Oh, do you come across a lot? Absolutely. Like there's a lot of fitters in Melbourne. As I said, that will just go from A to Z, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion. It's basically showing you where you should be and then it's a process of getting there. Now there's a big difference between having a bike fit and then having a major bike fit. Now, a time trial bike is probably the most extreme that you'll, you'll have within reason. You know, for memory, you went from a 172 millimeter crank arm to a 165 millimeter crank arm, which is just an enormous change. One, six, two five, even shorter. So in, in one session and then I think for memory you dropped 30 mil in the front end. So they're two huge, huge, huge changes.

Went up in the front.

Yeah. So there's always a conditioning period. One would say as well, the more time you've done that TT bike before the fit, the harder the transition afterwards with it.

Because your body is just so, you're so used to it, it's in tuned with the working muscles functioning in these angles.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And when you talk about crank arm length, you know, some people find it straight away a massive relief and it feels much better. Particularly people who potentially have a bit of an issue or are having problems or they've got a small injury going to that shorter crank arm does help a lot, but it's still an adaption period and you generally need to give it anywhere from, you know, three to six weeks of don't think about it, just get on, get, get riding. And there's a difference between that sort of conditioning discomfort of a new position and feeling like you're not getting anywhere. And that acute pain, that acute pain, you go back to the drawing board, something's wrong, start again. But it takes time to condition. It's the same process of you have a new athlete that comes on board and yeah, they might be super fit for half an hour, an hour. Because all I've ever done is Tuesday, North Road, Wednesday, North Road long, Thursday, North Road, 545. And all of a sudden you're giving them structure for a longer term goal and they might go backwards a little bit across their 5, 10 minute power. But then in the long, the long run, you know, you stick to the process, you believe in the process and you'll come out stronger on the other side.

So yeah, Ben, look, we have had examples of people who've, who we've encouraged to get a bike fit and, and they've come back and said, you know, within two or three rides, I can't ride in this position. What do you, what do you say to them?

Well, you just need to, you know, take it back a couple of steps. What's the problem? What's aggravating you? Is it the fact that the front end's too low? Well, okay, maybe let's come up 10 mil and slowly bring it down. We tend to see a lot of people who come in to try and relax a position after they've had a very serious bike fit from somewhere else. And we start again, we Sort of say, okay, well let's relax a little bit, but then in two months time let's just refine it a tiny bit more and work towards that goal of that end result and take a slightly slow approach with it.

So that's great advice. And the example would be, I know a lot of the guys have said to me because I'm so narrow in the shoulders now and I've had a crash on my shoulder and when I lean in that position it really hurts my shoulder. And you know, your answer would be.

Yeah, widen it or potentially speak to the fitter who you've gone and seen and say, okay, I'm getting some intense acute pain through the shoulder. Is there some exercises I can do to, to help with that? Something which I'm continuously talking to tri fellow athletes and other athletes and customers about is treatment off the bike. You know, anybody who's doing sort of upwards of eight hours a week of training, whether you're a triathlete or a bike rider, you should be getting treatment, whether it's massage, myo, you know, physio sort of work. Because at the end of the day we're not designed to be on a bike for three, four, five hours at a time. We're not designed to go off and do a half ironman, then sit in the car for two hours driving home. You know, you need to help them work on that. So, and that all ties back down into, you know, your bike fit in position. You know, if you're making major changes, think about, you know, helping your body with those changes by getting some treatment or, you know, not putting too much pressure on yourself to being able to ride in a certain position straight away. Or the other argument is if you just want to get out and ride your bike, then have a relaxed position, something which you can just get on and go.

That's a good point, isn't it? You know, we're talking specifically about going faster than you've gone before. That's kind of what this is about. But there are people who aren't really interested in going fast at all and they just want to enjoy riding, whether it's, you know, four or five hours a week, and they just want to be comfortable. And that's a completely different scenario, isn't it?

Oh, totally, absolutely. And you know, sometimes I enjoy working with that style of customer and client more than your elite level guy, because the person that just wants to get through things you can help more by not necessarily changes with their position and fit, but changes with componentry, choice, tyre Choice, wheel choice, that sort of thing. So there's no, I think, wrong answer with it, barring injury or potential injury. But certainly, you know, there's a lot that you can refine and work on and get better with and make better choices.

So you've touched on a few of the key factors. Can you run through kind of the major list that you're looking at to change when you're fitting someone at the start? So they, they've picked the bike, they picked the right size, you've touched on crank length, you've touched on the front angle. What else are you looking at? Just to try and adjust straight away.

Can we not skim over the crank length? Because we. What people would be saying, well, why did, why did you go 10 centimeters down? What's the theory? What?

Yeah, I think there's two approaches with it. First of all, once you've got your size, once you've got your bike, Right. For me personally, there's two different approaches. One, if they're somebody who potentially had injuries issues in the past, we can help them a little bit with their bike fit and position. But if it's something a bit more complex, I'll always refer them on to an actual expert. They're the ones with medical background, medical degree. If it's somebody who is, you know, happy to tinker, tweak, adjust and go through the journey of refining sort of their position. From there, they're up on the trainer and we start the process and we look at. Crank length is huge, particularly with time trial bikes and triathlon bikes, triathlon bikes more specifically, in my opinion, because you're getting off and you're running. So my understanding, crank arm length is two things. One, you're looking at knee flexion, knee extension and hip flexion and hip extension and then looking at the person's height as well.

Okay, so let's just, let's just talk a little bit about what you've just said about knee, hip and extension and flexion in that crank length. The old theory when I very first started time trialing was longer levers are better to be able to actually get more power by, you know, and, and for me, I was advised to get 175 length cranks when I had started with 170s. And so now it's all changing around. And we don't want to get too complicated, complex in the whys and why nots. But generally for the everyday cyclist, would you be recommending that they don't go with this? Because a small bike has a standard 170 mil crank. A medium bike has a 1725 and a large has a 175 crank. That's just a generalization I've made there. So why are we, I suppose, without getting too technical, why are we saying that a 1625 is going to suit me better than the 170 or the 1725?

The basic answer is lever length of your legs, essentially. So a basic example from my understanding is when you're talking about crank arm length working below threshold, shorter crank is better, slows the lactate buildup. Working above threshold, the longer lever is better, longer crank being better because it slows down that lactate build over threshold.

Now, would that be because your cadence is a little bit lower? And we know from our coaching that whenever guys do strength efforts, they can keep their heart rate way down. And we intentionally do that. So they're building strength efforts in that, in that session. And then when we want their cardio to be stimulated, we give them 95 RPM to 105 RPM. So is that exactly what you're essentially.

Yeah, without diving too deep into the workplace.

That's great.

That's really helpful to everybody, I think, to hear that.

Yeah. And the more reading you do on crank length and the effects it has, the deeper you go, you know, down the rabbit hole with it. So another basic, I guess, way to look at it is you're talking about 5 mil difference in length, but then you talk about the range and scope of people's heights and leg lengths. Like your satellite's about 70, 69 cm and on your road bike you've got 170 mil cranks. My subtle height is about 83 and a half centimeters, but yet we only have 5 mil difference in crank arm length. So the argument could go both ways. Well, maybe I should be riding on 180mm length cranks and you should be on 170s or we all drop down. Correct. So. So there's a lot in it. I would say talk to your fitter, talk to your local experts. There's tons of guys all around the country who are very, very good with this sort of thing. But crank length for TT and triathlon particularly is hugely important.

And the difference between TT in triathlon and then road obviously is sitting. A lot of guys can sit beautifully on a road bike, aggressively like they can on a time trial bike. You know, you watch the pros, they look like they're in a TT position when they are really aggressively riding down the drops.

Pros, though, yes, we're not pros.

Yeah. And there are some very good age groupers, but the general population can't actually physically get into that position. So therefore the crank length is. It's diminished. The need for it to be.

Yeah, to a certain degree.

Because you're sitting up higher.

Yeah. Road bikes, you can get away with it a little bit more because of that sort of back angle is far more relaxed.

So what I'm thinking that the listeners are going, I need to change my cranks.

No, not necessarily. Go see a local fitter essentially and get it checked out. But certainly for tri and tt, ask the question, you know, the other, the other benefit with it on a tri bike or a TT bike is the fact that, you know, if your body, you know, call it structurally sound, you can ride a lower position in the front. Going to a shorter crank is going to help with that and it's going to take that sort of extra pressure through your hips and off your knees and off your ankles and just make it a bit easier. The one downfall from that is that if you're used to a 172.5mm crank arm on your TT bike and you drop down to a 165 millimeter crank arm, you're going to feel like you're pedaling a million miles a minute and you're going to feel like you've got no torque across the top of that crank arm.

And I think that that point is exactly what happened to me in that initial period. I felt like I was just the roadrunner spinning my legs.

When was that race after you fit? It was a week and a half or two weeks. So you're asking too much too soon of yourself.

It was, it was great because the results page, I'm normally on the first page and I was on page four and people.

So nobody saw it.

People were asking, why didn't I race? That's how bad I rode.

Yeah.

So it's really, that is really important thing that we're trying to differentiate here. It's horses for courses and the difference between road and time trial and triathlon. There's certainly significant things you should be looking at.

Yeah, definitely. And I think another really important thing to touch on is we tend to get phone calls. I know sort of Ken and Stu are the same. Get phone calls, you know, a month out from a major event going, oh, I need a bike fit, I need a bike fit. Well, if it's not broken, don't fix it. Particularly a month out from your major goal.

Such a great point, you know, the.

You can really open up Pandora's box when you change in position and change things.

So my race was October. I went and saw the Bike, the Guru Bike Theater in March. Yep. And I rode like crap from April, May, June, July. It was not until August that I started to ride almost back to what I used to ride. And then between August, September, October, I rode better than I'd ever ridden before. So that gives you an idea of how long it took me and probably I'm a worst case scenario because I've been in that position for 40 years almost.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, my opinion in a way is we shouldn't compare ourselves to World Tour riders, to, you know, pro triathletes, that sort of thing, because they're a different breed. But you can certainly take lessons from the way they do things. You know, after their break at the end of the season, World Tour riders generally go to a team camp and that's where they've got their fitters there, their guru sort of aerodynamicists, that sort of thing, because they're looking at refining as much as possible. You, you're not really going to see them do that, you know, a week out from the Tour or the week out from Roubaix. Yeah, a couple of little tweaks here and there. If they're having a bit of a, an issue with their body in some way, but they're not making bulk changes then. So the way I look at it is okay, if you're, if your next main goal is Melbourne 70.3 in November, I'd be looking to make the changes soon so that you've got that clear window of 12 weeks training where there's no changes and you can just train and not have to worry about anything. You know, your position's good, you know that you're comfortable on the bike, you know that you're efficient and as fast as possible.

Spot on. We've had so many examples of both scenarios. People were leaving it to the last minute and, and really disappointed with their result. And it's, you know, you hate to say I told you so, but, you know, it's just a bad plan.

Yep.

So I think this is really important for the beginner to hear so far because you can often just walk into the store, maybe you'll get the right size, but you'll just take the bike and walk out and not change anything. And a lot of athletes might not even realize what length their crank length was. You know, they might have never even heard any of those numbers. So to start Working through this list is really good. What else should you be looking at to kind of upgrade on the bike to get more out of that bike rather than just taking it out of the store as it is?

Yeah, I think there's a lot that you can go into with this as well. You know, hopefully, barring the bike's built right, you know, you're out, you're riding, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the bike has been tailored perfectly to you and your needs. You know, most mainstream bike manufacturers will come out with a stock chainring ratio, which you'll find now is getting tailored across all their bikes, basically. So chainring ratios are hugely important, which get overlooked all the time, whether it's for road racing or whether it's for triathlon tt once again. So it's something. It's an area which, you know, isn't talked about enough unless you're really diving into it quite deep. So you've got different gear range sets. So you have what's called compact pro compact or semi compact and traditional. So compact being in Shimano's range of things and more traditionally 50, 34 pro, compact, semi compact being 52, 36, and then your traditional being 53 or 54, 39.

So just for the listener who's new to this, and we want to make sure everybody's on track with us, we're talking about the amount of teeth in the front chainring. If you counted them.

Yes.

It would be 50.

Yep.

Or 52 or 53 or 54 or 55 at the front. And the small chain ring at the front could be 39 or 36 or 34.

Yep. Or if you. They're the mainstream sizes and the most popular sizes, you can get other ones outside of that. Why it's important is similar to, you know, getting the right bike. It's goal specific. You know, somebody. I would hope that somebody's not going into a store and getting a 53, 39 front chainring ratio and then going and racing four wall classic or peaks the following week. You can probably do it. And why you're not gonna have a great time doing it, though, it's obvious.

To the majority of people. But for the. The newbie, why is that a bad choice?

Because it's a super hard gear ratio, which means it's dropping big time. So unless you're super, super strong. So. And that's, you know, there's more to it than that because then you have to tailor the cassette at the back, which is, you know, depending on what sort of bike you've got. It could be 10 speed, 11 speed, now 12 speed. So it's making sure that you have the right gear range for your goal, your style of riding, your purpose, basically. And that changes, you know, that changes from whether you're doing peak challenge to, you know, the guys to Exco Race Melbourne to Warrnambool, that sort of thing. So you can generally get away with the stock setup. But if you're buying a bike and tailoring a bike exactly how you want it to be, then ask the question.

This is really important, isn't it? So course determines your setup. And you could have a setup for peaks.

Yep.

And bore, bore, they're just two examples of massively, you know, 4,000 meters of climbing. Or you could be doing the Melbourne to Warrnambool, which has got, you know, hardly. It's still got climbing, but it's, you know, you don't need a bigger range of options to be pedaling in the right cadence range. That's what you're really saying.

Yeah, pretty much. And then, you know, there's great data coming out now on drivetrain friction and the way you should ride your gear range, which goes deeper into this, you know, something like the Melbourne to warnable where, you know, you might average anywhere from 40 to 45k an hour. Then if you've got a 52 tooth chainring at the back and your rear cassette could be an 1128, you're going to be in the bottom half of that cassette majority of the day. So you bump that chainring at the front up to a 54 tooth, it brings the chain up. The cassette means you're riding in the middle of the cassette a lot more, which does two things. One, reduces your drivetrain friction. Two, reduces the wear on your componentry so you're not sort of reaching into the wallet in a couple of months time to replace everything. And two, it just gives you a smoother gear to ride in. And, you know, it makes it a little less grindy depending on how you look after your bike.

And there's nothing worse than hearing that or feeling in the chain where you're sitting in the 11, you know, 39, which I regularly do.

Yep. Which is, you know, not great.

Not great. And, and it is, you know, potentially every, every bit of thing that upsets you when you're under the pump. And that's one of them that, you know, it's just, it's like having the brakes on.

Yeah. And it's all, it's all relative and all stems back to sort of, you know, losing power, gaining power, friction drag, right. So you'll see your World Tour riders once again and you know, guys like Garner Duro TT. He's running a 58 tooth chain ring at the front. He's running 11:28 at the back now. Yes, he is incredibly strong. He rode like 58k an hour average speed for that race. He needs that 58 tooth chainring at the front so that on the downhills he's not spinning out, he's still got control, he's still pedaling well. But more importantly it's so that that chain is up higher in the cassette so that he's not losing any power, any drag through that. You know, SRAM have, have invented 12 speed now. It means you've got a 10 tooth at the bottom versus a 11 tooth. And their gear range at the front now is different compared to what we're used to on paper. It's great, it's brilliant. You know, it gives you a much broader spectrum of gears, it gives you a much bigger range so that you don't need to chop and change chainrings. The downfall for most top end age groupers or most top end sort of riders is means you're riding in that bottom half, the cassette a lot more. So you're wearing down things a lot more. You're also putting a lot more drag through the drivetrain. I think, I think it was friction facts maybe did a test on it. That 10 tooth has 6 watts of drag just through that one cog which most people would say 6 watts doesn't make that much of a difference. But you ate up 6 watts on that 111 tooth. You add up drag on your tires, you add up, you know, drag on your hub bearings, it all lights up, it's all relative and also it's wearing down that chain cassette chainrings even quicker. So it's going to cost you more in the long run. So there's, there's a lot with it. So a huge part is chainring and cassette choice. When you get a new bike, probably the next two biggest things, keeping in mind that saddle choice and saddle setup is back in that bike fit section is tyre hugely important and also hugely important depending on what time of the year it is. Most bikes will come out with, depending on the price range, will come out with more of a summer race weight tire which if you're buying a bike now in the next couple of weeks, coming into winter, that's the first in which we take off bikes and we put Something a bit more. Slightly heavier weight, slightly more puncture resistant. Barring they're about to go off and race the following week. You know, you have that conversation. There's a big difference between a winter training tyre and a race tyre, which we'll talk about a bit more in a sec. But tailoring it so that, you know, the first week of riding, they're not going out and, fingers crossed, getting punctures every second ride.

Yeah. It's certainly an important thing to think about. And, you know, the tyre choice, not only the puncture, but, you know, in the wet and when we've had a summer where all the cars are dropping, you know, an amount of grease on the road and the minute it gets wet going around a roundabout, before you know it, you're on your backside.

Yep.

And the tyre choice can make or break that. That initial turn.

Not just tyre choice, but tyre pressure as well, which is something hugely.

Which we learned firsthand in Belgium. You know, it's impossible to go up any of the cobble climbs if you have your tyre pressure at 90.

Yeah, absolutely.

It needs to be at 60 to 65.

Yeah.

I would say easily 95 people. 95% of people that come through the shop are running their tire pressure way too high and don't realize the effects of, one, they're losing power. Two, it's slower because the tire is skipping across the road. It might feel faster at the time, but it's not. It's slower because you're basically skipping across the road rather than rolling across the road. So tyre pressure is a huge one. But going back to actual bike setup. Yeah. Tyres tailor the tyre to what you're doing for the next couple of months. You know, assuming you've got the one set of wheels in the bike and you're just going to ride that bike, get the right tyre. Tyres are easy. They're one of the cheaper things to really custom upgrade as well.

And it's easy to. If you've got a race in between that four months, you've got four, four B races, C races, club races, you just swap them over for that day and swap them back after the race.

Yeah, totally. Look, a lot of brand wheel manufacturers now are quite specific with what tyres you can and can't use. But similar to most things, do your research, have a good look at what tyres are compatible. There's a lot of brilliant websites out there which will give you a ton of information on puncture, resistancy versus rolling, resistancy versus weight on that sort of thing. Bicycle rolling resistance is Kind of like my bible when it comes to tyres. Aerocoach as well. Do a fantastic summary on sort of tyres as well. So. Because it makes a huge difference, not just against punctures, but, you know, if you go down the race tyre route, there can be 10, 15. What's the difference between two different tyres? And then that goes back to the choose the right tire for what you're doing. You know, a time trial tyre, you can generally get away with running the lightest, fastest tyre because the reality is if you get a puncture, your race is over anyway.

But you don't want your race to.

Be over by selecting the wrong tyre for the course.

That's right.

Exactly right.

At the end of the day, we always want to finish and. And, you know.

Yeah.

And the risk reward is the answer and the question.

Correct. So choose the right tyre for the right course and also, you know, feather that line on what you're happy with in terms of. I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of punter resistancy for an extra 3 watts on my tyres. Even more important across a half Ironman or Ironman, because you're riding a lot further. So.

And, and the risk is way bigger to get a puncture in a half iron man and an Ironman is really disappointing and can take 10 minutes out of your time on the day. And there's no need for it because you're not like, you're doing a 15k time trial where you're trying to get the maximum speed. Just sacrifice a little bit of mechanical issue for the fact that you can continue in your journey.

Not just that you also want to pick a tyre which, you know, if you do get a flat, you can change easily. There's a lot of tyres out there which are super hard to fit. They might be really punch resistant, they might be incredibly fast to ride on and nice and smooth to ride on, but you can't get it off. You need five guys to fit one tire. So. And in a race format as well, you're going to be stressed. You're going to be sort of a bit, you know, stressed out. Adrenaline's running, you've got a flat, you, you know, you're standing force in the age group, you want it sort of quick and easy.

Well, that's so true because I, I've got that experience and I had a puncture. I was up training up in, in Noosa recently and for some reason I left the tire lever out of my puncture repair kit and punctured. I said, oh, yeah, no worries, got Everything out. Got the valve and the all equipment. I'm looking for the actual tire lever.

Yep.

Not there.

Yep.

And I'm thinking, oh, these are not easy tires to get on for, are they? Hard? And, you know, I had to use my thumbs and I was so grateful for the tyre that I had because I could get it off eventually and put it back on without a tire lever, which is. Try it. It's not that easy to do.

No, not at all.

And that point you made is so true.

Yeah.

And also because, you know, depending on where you are, you're hot and sweaty, everything's slippery, you generally, you've got grease all over you, that sort of thing, from taking the wheel out of the bike. Make the right choice. And for age groupers as well, practice at home so you know what to do on race day. So if you do have an issue, fingers crossed you don't. Because you've made the right choice with your tyres and tubes and sealant and all that sort of stuff, you would.

Hate to have a puncture and you know, and not know how to change it. And because you've never practiced, you've always let someone else do it for you. That's really something you shouldn't let happen.

You know, it's your own punctures. Something which we do a fair bit of is, you know, the bike comes in for its service a week or two weeks out from. From the event you're putting new tires on. We sometimes wait for the customer to come pick up their bike and then we do it with them. So that's awesome. Well, one, I know they know how to change the tire and tube because, you know, they've just trained for 612 months for their event. You don't want that to be done based off not knowing how to change a tube. So, yeah, tire and tube, knowing how to change it, making the right choice, owning that choice as well. Because we get a lot of people who sort of, I guess, blur the lines of choosing a tyre which we probably wouldn't recommend for that event. But they're just wanting the fastest possible tyre and then just knowing, well, okay, I chose that, so that's the risk I'm taking. Yeah.

Okay. So we've, we've sort of covered a fair bit now on the equipment, but the wheels, that's the big thing that, that people are always asking me, oh, should I, should I invest in these wheels? And look, my answer is always train harder and you'll probably get more value than paying an extra dollar for a better wheel. But okay, we do need to get some reasonable wheels. So I do admit that. But I still would rather they train better and we're relying on their fitness rather than their wheels to get them faster.

But does that offend you, hearing that the wheels might not make as much difference? I know you're a big wheel fanatic, so.

No, it doesn't. It certainly doesn't offend me. But there's questions before. Before wheel choice. So wheels are awesome. They're fast, they're cool, they're shiny. There's always new ones coming along. There's always new technology with them. I will always ask before you start to go down the wheel route. Okay, is your fit 100 dialed? You know, your body is 70% plus minus of the drag. Is everything else on the bike right, in terms of you've got the right gear choice, you've got the right cassette choice. Have you looked at tires? Have you made the right choice with tires? Are you running a standard butyl tube? Do you have a latex tube? Are you running sealant? You know, you need to cover all these bases first and then just before.

You get to that.

Yeah.

Have you done all the training?

Yeah.

And that is unbelievably important.

If you can't go good, you might as well look good. So wheels are pretty awesome. So.

So if you've done all those things you said, plus you've done the training, then you're still better off leaving your wheels as they are and do more training. But then once you've ticked off them. Absolutely. I'm with you.

Yeah, you're talking to a product here. So we're going to go back and forth on this one.

It's the coach versus the wheel fanatic.

No, no, it does go hand in hand, I think, because there's certain things as well. You know, you've got your bike dialed, your position styled, your front end's dialed and you're really starting to look for those next sort of bits and pieces. And it depends on what wheels you're riding on at the moment. You know, one of the things which I think is great about the a lot of time trial bikes now, but the trinity particularly is that it does come with a training wheel. Why is that great? Well, my opinion is you should train heavy and slow, race fast and light. Now, it's a bit of an old school thought process, but when you are training hard and if you're out on the open road on a time trial bike, you know it can be dangerous. So you want to slow that speed down. As much as possible. There's some really good products out there now, which is helping with that to make sure that you're in control, particularly up and down beach road cars just come in all the time. I know Sydney's the same. So look at training wheels first and then the decision is, okay, am I buying a race set of wheels or am I buying a set of wheels, which I want to be a lot nicer, a lot faster and they're going to stay in the bike the whole time. Because if that's the case, then you sort of, you need to tailor the question and tailor the, you know, I guess the outcome and product choice based off that, which there's nothing wrong with that. You know, if you want a super quick set of wheels in your bike every single day, you just need to choose the right set of wheels.

That's a good point too. Just before you go on, I don't interrupt, but. But the good thing about the Trinity is it comes with a training set of wheels and it reduces the cost of the bike.

Totally. Yep. By a lot.

And therefore it is probably compared to the other brands, it is a very high end time trial like Dumalan one title on it. So it must be a reason Luke.

Clapp just won national champs on it.

Yep. So the fact that it comes at a cheaper price because of the wheels aren't totally spec wheels. That is such an incentive.

Yeah.

And we say training wheels, they still ride really well.

They do.

Like I use them as my training wheel so I'm training properly also because they've got the alloy brake track. So if it's in place, bit of an average day out there, you've got really good braking performance with them and then you can pair it with a different tyre as well, something which is a bit more puncture resistant, a little bit slower, just to keep that speed down so you're a bit safer. Now, having said that, people like nice things, people like fast things. So it comes down to what sort of wheels you'd put in, whether they're going to be your 100% race wheel or are they going to be a bit of both. That also comes down to whether you're doing triathlon or whether you're doing time trialing or whether it's in your TCRE propel or, you know, your canyon or whatever it is. It's about tailoring that choice and making sure you're getting the right outcome. Now, it also depends on your body geometry as well. You know, if you're a, you know, female, 50 kilo triathlete, you need to be careful about what wheel choice you make down the track. You know, I probably wouldn't suggest for somebody of that size to purchase a, you know, Cadex tubeless rear disc and a quartz spoke front wheel because if there's a slight breeze out there, they're probably going to end up in Tasmania, not down in Shepparton. So because they're quite hard to handle in the wind. So for a lot of people it's about sort of in the triathlon side of things. For me suggesting a wheel which I think is going to be 80 to 90% suitable every single race. Are you going to sacrifice a tiny bit of that top end speed, a tiny bit of that sort of reducing that drag because you're not going to have a disc rear wheel? Yeah, probably. But it's going to be a wheel set which you can ride all the time, which I think is, is important because you know, a top end race wheelset, it's not cheap, it's a big investment and then choosing the right front wheel. So that's the important part. Now the next question around time trialing is do I look at a 60 mil front wheel for that reason or do I look at a GT3 quad spoke, sorry, tri spoke or do I look at a Cadex quad spoke? Same principle applies. You need to choose the wheel which you feel most comfortable with all the time. But is it a great upgrade to your bike? Yeah, of course it is. If you're averaging a certain speed. So which that gray area is depending on what you read, anywhere above sort of 38 kilometers an hour, you can warrant going to a disc and a good front, well, not a good front wheel but a deeper front wheel for that reason. And it's also cost dependent. You know, you're not going to ride a super deep front wheel on a course which is very, very undulating, it's open, exposed, you'll probably want something a bit shallower. Reason being if there's a bit of wind and you're getting buffed around, how many times are you sitting up on the base bar versus being able to hold and ride that TT position? So it's all relative. You know, if you're riding a wheelset which you can't control and you're having to break position a lot, well you're.

Probably going off counterproductive.

Correct. So it's about once again choosing the right equipment for your discipline, your goal, your events and what you can control as well.

The example is, you know, a lot of the the really windy courses like Kona and you know, everybody knows a course that they've done where it's been extremely windy and it's a, it's a no brainer to me. There is no way I'm putting the quad KDEX front wheel in on a day where I could possibly be moving across the road a meter or two.

Definitely.

And, and I'm going to break the pressure on my pedals, which is the key thing to me because I'm absolutely scared and I all of a sudden stop pedaling properly because my bike's moving and then I sit up in the, you know, out of the TT position so my bike's already going slower. So forget all that. I put the training wheel in which is a damn good wheel steel. It's a 30 mil rim and it still rolls beautifully and I don't have the bike moving in these bad conditions.

A huge example is as well. You know, in an ideal situation you'd have a couple of different front wheels and you can tailor it to the day, right? Ineos again, they tailor their front wheel. They're one of the few World Tour teams because they've got the budget to do it. But they jump between a Princeton Wake shallower front wheel and an AeroCoach 100mm deep front wheel depending on the course. So you know, it's really looking at what's the best option for you, not for everybody else, but for you and what you're most comfortable with riding. And then outside of that, then you've got all the different brands, all the different price points, whether they're tubeless, tube clincher, tubular, that sort of thing. So there's a lot with it. But if you've got all those other areas covered and you're starting to look at those next big gains. Wheelset. The other huge thing which people don't talk about enough, particularly in triathlon, is clothing choice makes a massive difference because that's a huge part of your overall drag. So getting that right as well. Helmet choice, there's tons with it.

We could really open Pandora's box for a lot of these.

Talk about for hours.

Yes.

Just before we leave the wheels, there's one more question. George, Sorry. I know we're going on a lot longer than normal, but I think the listener. I get questions asked about this. Should I change both back and front in a windy day? And I'm really intrigued to hear your opinion on.

For me, I prefer to be a bit cautious with it because people do listen to your advice and it is a dangerous sport. And if it is conditions which are a bit sort of questionable for me and for majority of my customers and clients, safety comes first. If it's a day where it is blowing a gale and you're a bit unsure whether you can control it, then, you know, most people have to go to work on Monday. Choose a wheel that you feel, you feel safe with. If you're just going 100%, it's world champs, it's national champs, I don't care about tomorrow. Then ride the disc, ride the deeper rear wheel because nine times out of 10 that is going to be faster if you can control it. But if you're a bit concerned and unsure and it's, you know, a local club TT or a two times you or something like that, then ride the wheel which you're going to feel comfortable with. You don't want to finish the race being like, I hated every second of that because it's a sport you love, you know, use the wheel which you enjoy the most. I remember a couple of years ago, challenge Melbourne, the day beforehand, the weather was absolutely atrocious and they, they banned disc rear wheels. And I was one of the people like, oh, that's ridiculous. That's crap. Like, I was doing a team doing the bike length. I thought, no, I want to ride my disc wheel, I've got this wheel, I want to ride it. So I ended up riding an 85 millimeter wheelset front and rear. And it was the most terrifying time I've ever had on my TT bike because I was getting pushed literally side to side on the road and it was just horrible. I hated every second of it. And after that, that's when I was like, it was actually quite dangerous because there was people getting, you know, literally pushed off their bike because of the.

Wind to you to realize how, yeah, totally, you are very experienced. Time trial. And mind you, he went under 2 hours for 90k on that day in those conditions. So, you know, it's really saying something to the listeners out there that, you know, even you who, who are.

Different day, different day.

But the point would be, yeah, we're talking about, that's the level you're at. For the triathletes out there who know what a 90k ride is, they're normally riding between, you know, 220 to 3 hours, 10 and for you to ride under 2 hours for 90k and.

Yeah, but even further into that, you know, the guys who are doing the actual entire triathlon, they're getting out of the water, their shoulders are a bit tired, they're a bit cooked, you're not concentrating as much. You know, if I felt that way with those wheels and I didn't even swim and I wasn't going to run, you know, there are a lot of people that were sort of out of their depth in terms of controlling the bike. And it was quite funny, the two people that we lent wheels to from the shop that I was like, all I've got are these 30 mil deep wheels. They were the ones that did the best on the day and had the most fun on the day because they were in control the whole time. So great advice. Yeah. Yep.

Good. Well, I mean, we've got a whole lot more questions, but we might have to save it for another podcast because this is so interesting and intriguing for everyone and something that we all need to know. But maybe to finish off with. Is there some final. Just some bike maintenance or upkeep tips that you could give just to help people get more out of their bike?

Yep. Keep it clean. It's as simple as that. The cleaner the bike, the faster the bike within certain degree. Choose good quality product. Don't just go to Bunnings and buy an engine degreaser to clean your channing cassette. Choose bike specific product. Take your time, look after it. Because at the end of the day, you know, componentry and bikes are incredibly expensive and the more you look after it, the last. The longer it's going to last and not just that, the faster it's going to run as well. So look after it, keep your bike nice and clean. Think about good quality chain lube. There's a lot of guys within, you know, the trivelo community who are deep into this sort of thing in terms of ultrasonic cleaning of chains, waxing chains, that sort of thing, which is incredible, incredibly awesome. But then we also have a broader group who's not so great on it. So if you struggle to find time, call your local bike shop. Most bike shops will offer a, you know, just a, a wash and degrees service which takes them 15, 20 minutes to do. You do that every couple of weeks and it's gonna run much better and last a lot longer and be faster. So nothing but pros.

I love that. That's a great way to finish. And like I said, we probably have a lot more questions we might have to get you back on. And I'd probably finish with saying my, my other gratitude of the day is that you've come on because it's really valuable for the listeners. We've wanted to get you on for a while and finally been able to make it work. So I'm sure we'll get a lot of good feedback from this and hopefully get you on a second time. And to summarize, I think that, like you've said a lot on this podcast, you don't want to claim yourself to be the most scientific expert on aero and bike fitting out there, but that's not what we're looking at, especially with, you know, this podcast is for the age grouper trying to improve, and I think you're really good at explaining it in layman's terms and not trying to be Team ineos, you know, but in layman's terms just to help the standard age group know what to look for to get better.

Yeah, I think it's. It's making sure people get the most out of their bike and making sure they're enjoying their experience as much as possible. So, yeah, thanks for having me.

No worries.

Fantastic.

That's it for this episode, and we'll see you next time.